Will We Ever ACTUALLY See The 277 Sig Fury?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มี.ค. 2024
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! In this video we discuss the 277 Sig Fury, and if it will ever actually come to market.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
Hmmm...80k PSI from a 16" barrel. Don't forget your ear protection, because the muzzle blast is going to be awe-inspiring.
Good point. I wonder what the muzzle pressure is
Reason why all the rifles have a suppressor on them.
I wouldn’t want to carry that load out around one bit, my back hurts just thinking about it
Yea this is silly to think this cam replace the AR 556 platform as far as longterm operation in the field wo breakdowns
You should use ear protection every time you shoot.
It’ll be roughly the same or maybe less than normal cartridges in that barrel length. The whole reason for the high pressure is using faster powder to burn it off in a shorter barrel.
I could listen to Ron talk about bullets and guns all day. The amount of passion and enthusiasm he has for the sport is contagious!
Saaaaame ! And i don't even shoot modern gun !
I remember reading some gun writer, Grinnell or Seyfried, I don't remember who, writing an article back in the 70s playing with steel head cases. He reported higher velocities.without issues from a Remington 700. However, he did not publish those velocities nor loads.
I think the .270 catrage is the Best balanst bullet and catrage out of the 30-06 catrage. Since it could stabilize 165 grains long bullets it's the best. Thanks keep it up Ron.
20:24 well no, he said they are dropping it to 70,000 18:10 so 5,000 PSI above the 270 winchester.
Right. That means, for hunters to get 270 win speeds, it will take a 21" barrel (guessing) to get there. So now it's just short action 270win. That's the only benefit. If I was wanting a better 270, I'd choose 6.8 western.
Back in 1998 I was looking at a long range pistol in Bisley. It was chambered on 338-06 with a steel head case. Using a triplex load (3 different powders) and running at an estimated 90/100,000 psi. This is nothing new and it offers nothing to the military or hunters. Hunters already have cartridges that shoot well to beyond ethical ranges and "Bullpups" already (since 1949) give nice high ballistics from short rifles at lower pressures for the military. It is a fascinating cartridge and I am sure it is effective, but I think it is a solution to a problem that does not exist.
Any info on the case? I can't seem to find anything about that with a quick search
@@SiliconeSwordIt was just a 30-06 necked out to 338 with the base cut off and a steel head fitted. I don't know the finer details or the powders he used - though he did state that a small amount of black powder was in there!? What I was getting at was that high pressure steel head cartridges are not new. They have been around for a few decades.
@@johnf3f810 Oh dang, I thought this was something at a shop, makes sense it was a wildcat with all that pressure. I'm lazy so I probably couldn't handle all the lathe work if I shot the thing that much, but I suppose that you change the barrel with every mag lol. I wonder how the powder worked, like if it was layered or mixed, and what was even used. Also curious about what primers, since you'd think they'd blow, seeing how they usually do blow with spicy loads.
Not really that impressed with the new 6.8 cartridge with what I'm learning about it, since it just sounds like it's quartering the accurate lifespan of your barrel in exchange for a short action.
@@SiliconeSwordVery much my thoughts. I am sure it is a great cartridge - but for what? Back in the late 1940s we had shortie rifles with 24.5 inch barrels so why do we suddenly need a high pressure (longer?) rifle ? The "assault" rifle came out in the 19th centrury and it hasn't advanced much since! Are they just playing marketing????
Yeah but bullpups suck to handle and use.
Sounds like I will just be keeping my tried-and-true 270 Winchester as well. Thanks for the data!
Why wouldnt you? its not like making a 308 size .284 is suddenly going to surpass the 30-06 size powder capacity
The one real advantage that a 277 Fury at 80,000 psi has is with short barrels. If you are fine with longer barrels, there is really no reason to switch.
Did you know browning is building fast twist 1-7.5 270s so you can shoot long heavy bullets?
@@jimwest1967 Yes, but that does not change the standard that has been used for almost a century. So it's great if you load your own ammo, but virtually all factory ammo will be designed to work in a SAAMI standard rifle and action (3.34" action with a t in 10" twist).
@jfess1911 but it does give it more long range potential. Which is the point
Ron you know how great a 6.8 Western is
You have done a fantastic story on the 6.8 Western & taking a white tail at distance- one shot 😮
Nifty, but with the performance window at 70,000 psi it doesn't seem tochave much more juice in the squeeze than a 270 or 6.8 western.
Yes, lowering the pressure takes away a big reason to use it.
Ron glosses right over that, but it brings it down to just 5,000 PSI above a 270 win with much less powder capacity, you already get much more than a 270 win in a short action if you want it for hunting with the 270 WSM
Remember, it has to hit those velocities with a 13” barrel. Yea.
@@blackhawk7r221 Yes, smaller propellant capacity and higher pressures give the biggest performance boost with shorter barrels. I have considered the biggest market for the 277 Fury to be suppressed rifles with relatively short barrels. The released performance numbers of the current 150 grain high pressure round from a 16" barrel matches that of traditional 270-with-24" barrel performance.
@jfess1911 I commented with a similar response. The market for this cartridge other then the dorks that need any and everything that the military adopts is going to be suppressed hunters. If I can get 24" 270 win performance from a 16-18" barrel in a hunting rifle with a suppressor it's a God damn no brainer! The barrel life is on par with 22-250 but those same people will cry about needing to replace a barrel once in 3 life times, considering the amount they shoot 😑
Well now wait a minute. The biggest piece of news from this video is they're lowering the PSI to 70,000. If 80,000 causes poor accuracy, and 70,000 is required to maintain accuracy, how was that not noticed during trials and how is it Sig gets to keep the contract?
I’m sure it was bullet stability vs barrel wear. With 80,000psi they probably needed a faster barrel, thus reducing the already ridiculous 2,000 rounds barrel life.
I am not a ballistician, but more pressure causing bad accuracy sounds like BS to me unless they had manufacturing issues with the fancy steel brass
Sig is just responding to the DOD/Pentagon requirements in the first place. The guys who actually ought to be updating their resumes are the ones who thought up these ridiculous requirements in the first place. But of course, they won't -'cause working for the Five-Sided Puzzle Palace means never having to say you're sorry for blowing yet another mountain of taxpayer money on a project which could have been done for far less money and using mostly off-the-shelf components and existing cartridges. But the trouble with that sort of practical and down-to-earth thinking is that no one gets promoted or gets that big year-end bonus in his paycheck, right? Cynical? You bet I am!
The sooner you figure out that the real reason for the existence of that place isn't to get the best weapons into the hands of the grunts as soon as possible and using funds the most-efficiently - but to line the pockets of defense contractors, Congressman and retired generals, the better off you'll be!
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 100%
Sig fulfilled all the accuracy the Army wanted. It's simply fine tuning the the round ... for future loads & bullets for match ammo.
Compare the numbers on the 6.8 Western with similar grain projectiles
that would be no comparison, a regular 270 already wipes the floor with it,, you just arent going to get anywhere near the same velocity from a 308 size case vs a 30 06 especially since they are dropping the pressures to 5k psi above the 270, the 270 WSM is +200fps over the 270 which will likely already be above this
@@WayStedYou the 6.8 western IS a wsm case, slightly longer neck, (I think) to keep it from chambering in a short mag gun. So, a 6.8 western, with 130/140gr bullets, should, and would perform like a 270 short wsm. So, in conclusion, a handloader could buy the 6.8 western, and have loads for super long range (175gr) and eastern bean field range (140gr) ,and essentially have a 270wsm to hunt the east, and a 6.8 western to hunt way out west, in the same gun. That is the right choice. 277fury, dead on arrival.
@@Gunrunner223 barrel length... That is really the only thing it offers. To me the best attribute to the 277 sig is that it does what the 270 win does but in a significantly shorter barrel. For a standard length 270 win (24") barrel the 277 sig does it in a 18".
@@trevorRTK74 that is yet to be determined. Once the dropped the pressures to 70k, that short barrel claim suffered. Might can get the speeds in a 20inch. We will have to see.
Dumping a ton of $$ into hair splitting research for this new cartridge. All the while our adversaries still use the Soviet .30 cal cartridges from 1/2 a century ago and longer (x39 and x54). Their modernization was the 5.45 more recently. The way wildcatters are always tweaking things, there has to be a better solution out there that has already been proven vs the Pantagon War of financing manufacturers who will have delays based on the good idea fairys asking for it to have zero recoil yet penetrate the armor of an enemy tank at 500m. Great video Ron, not knocking you at all. Big fan, you cover such a variety of shooting topic, I keep coming back for more.
Evidently the army plans on using non-steal head cases at lower pressures for training and most use, to spare barrel life. Only using the high pressure loadings for actual combat. When the rifle debuted there were several gun tube channels that reviewed it, but no one was able to get a hold of the high pressure ammo.
It’s not to “spare barrel life” it’s because they have a shit load of brass 7.62 x 51 cases that they can use to make the .277 rounds with. We trained the exact same way when I was in; shot M85 at home shot the improved rounds down range.
Interesting but I wonder how much that increase in recoil is going to jack up the muscle memory you are trying to train into soldiers at the range?
Garand thumb had full load ammo,and the m7 has special steel Alloy barrels that supposedly get the same round count (10000) 3300 fps,140 grain out of a 16 inch barrel.
@@tankerd1847 It's going to be a huge difference in recoil, in foot lbs the numbers I have seen are similar to a 30-06, it's frankly a really bad idea.
I run my 7mm08 at 3150 with a 140 Nosler AB. Took some work and thinking outside the box. But I got it...the .277 is very intriguing
Thinking about the possibility of resizing the brass to get a hopped up 358 Winchester
would be a killer round
Sig Pro: They are always innovating.
Sig Con: They are prohibitively expensive and near impossible to find.
I highly doubt it will catch on.
The military has adopted it. It will not be a fad.
They adopted the scar, for a minute. @adama1294
It will catch, but will be slow till milsurp ammo starts dropping
@@adama1294 and I read they are learning in Ukraine that it might not be what they need after all. Seems the 5.56 is still relevant.
@@adama1294 yeah just like the scar 16 and 17 right? lol
Hey Ron, I really like your videos and I especially like this one because you consider that not everyone has been in the sport for decades. For most of us, the rifles we buy are the ones we are stuck with. The younger folk need your knowledge and experience to make a good decision.
But the point of the .223 is that it is light so you can carry a lot of them ...
And with FMJs you are still only poking holes through people.
The main issues that lead to the new cartridge came from the realization that even some third world armies now have some body armor and that experienced foes have learned to open up on US soldiers from 600m or more out. They wanted a cartridge that could easily shoot through basic body armor and be effective farther out. The Army is also determined to stick with short barreled rifles, which does not help either. I am not sure they made the right choice, though.
@@whoshotashleybabbitt4924 At 3000 fps. there's more going on than just that.
Military now depend far more on motorized transport. Ammo weight is less of an issue.
Ah, ok, now I get it, tnx@@cccmmm1234
Excellent video! I understand this cartridge much better now. I’m in my early 30’s and I’m going to stick with my 270 win and 7 rem mag too. I think this cartridge is unnecessary for civilians and the military.
It was designed for the the US Army not civilians.
And the US Army is replacing the 5.56 & 7.62 ... with the 6.8 CC ... for all squad weapons ( service rifle, ASW, GPMG & DMR).
The Army is planning to replace the M4, M249, M240 & M110 .... with the M7 & M250 ... in 6.8 CC
Plus the 6.8 CC .... is a HP 270 with similar ballistics with a 13" barrel ... and ... has a full brass General Purpose rd giving 7mm08 performance. Can you guess which round the Army will mostly use especially with the service rifle?
Brilliant decision by the Army .... except the M7 should have been Sig's bullpup with an AR upper but a bullpup lower.
Sig should develop a new AR rifles based on the spear upper ... without the T handle & forwrd assist, and a side charging handle in the upper ... and ... offer a bullpup lower
Stop trying to to sell the 277 Fury. Make the the AR & Bullpup ... the Army should have picked instead of the Spear. And Civilians would go crazy for either.
@@abelincoln.2064the military has already put a bunch of bull pups through their trials and none have measured up to what they want, why would Sig change from the current platform for something that the US military has already said they don’t want?
Advancements like the case design and pressure capacities in the fury are really intriguing and beneficial. The round is appealing to me in a decent hunting rifle. While I have not hunted with the cross, I have handled one and it’s just not a rifle I would like to hunt with.
I love your videos Ron and I do not see you trading your 284 winchester for a cross in 277
I'D TAKE THE THE 7MM-08 ALLDAY
they basicaclly made the 7mm08 again if they are dropping it to 70k PSI
100%.....
Do you all remember what the US Ordinance Department did to the Stoner rifle? Changed the length of the barrel, changed the powder from rod to ball, and one other change that escapes me now. So what will the Ordinance Department do to mess this new round/rifle up? Something, count on it.
The last one was telling the soldiers that the hard chromed bolt carriers were self cleaning and didn't require lube
Okay. Weren't the chambers later chromed to help prevent carbon buildup? Wasn't that a change that helped prevent jamming? @@ricomock2
They sabotaged the rifles at Fort Greeley, Alaska, maybe inadvertently when messing with the front sight base/gas blocks, lost the pins, and replaced them with sections of welding rod. The rifles still out-shot the M14 in Arctic conditions and were more reliable. Stoner had to fly up there with spare parts to unjack the rifles.
Dr. Carten of the Ordnance Board wrote a scathing letter at how unsuitable the AR-15 was for military use, especially Infantry Soldiers. Within weeks, the Pentagon sent orders to him to begin type classification of the AR-15 and Military Standardization per request from the USAF (General Curtis LeMay didn’t take no for an answer).
The changes to ball propellant came later when they were unable to purchase large enough lots of IMR stick powder due to tight tolerances required for the stick powder to maintain its burn rates and get the lots signed-off on. Demand for millions of rounds of ammunition kept coming from the Army and Marines, so they had Winchester Olin use older WC ball propellant for subsequent lots of ammunition, which spiked the gas port pressures over 10,000psi and accelerated the cyclic rate outside of the design parameters of the AR-15.
Ordnance Board doesn’t exist anymore.
My God. Worse than I thought. There was a great article about this in the Atlantic Magazine back in the 1970's or '80s as I recall. @@LRRPFco52
It's amazing how much copium is spread in order to save-face for ARs.
I like your video, Ron. To answer why the short action matters over the long action, it’s the weight of the ammo. When you got to carry hundreds to maybe 1000 rounds up and down the side of a mountain it matters. Soldiers do it all the time. 1000 rounds of 556 is lighter than 1000 rounds of 308.
Use your brain
Weight is not only important for the soldiers on the ground but also the logistics resources getting ammo where it needs to go. A small weight savings multiplied millions of times adds up quickly.
@@ben501st yes it does. I could carry more 556 in my Huey than I could 308. I’m guessing the difference between that long action 270 and the short action 277 would amount to the same type of situation.
@@edstettin6799so they should just use a 270 WSM then
You save weight with a shorter, lighter receiver as well. A .308 action vs a 30.06 action size.
Pearls before swine. The Marine Corps ELR qual targets were removed from XTC competition in 1965 for being too big. The U.S. Army routinely fails to get soldiers capable of shooting 6MOA prone supported slow fire. Most uniformed personnel can't fully exploit the capability of 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO.
You’re forgetting about the new optic that’s also included with the rifle.
Awesome video as always Ron! Your the man!
I appreciate that
@@RonSpomerOutdoors And we appreciate you!
I think the concept is fantastic and it’s gonna be really cool to see how this shoots
Great video Ron. Somewhere I saw that when testing the new rifles for the military, they found that this new round was not only destroying the barrel in 1000 rounds, but the action as well. It did so much damage that the rifle needed to be replaced! Bringing the pressure down to 70,000 psi, and you're only 8000 more than a standard .308. Not much extra PUNCH there. And how do you seal the steel head to the brass case, braze it? More waste of our taxpayer dollars.
press fit
Thanks. I hadn't heard that.@@jjmckay6man1
Well, it sounds like they’re creating job security doesn’t it?
@@peternorton5648 You could create job security by building a endless road to nowhere, with a crew following behind demolishing it, fund it with tax money, employ loads of workers. Of course that's a terrible idea, but so is the new SIG. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should.
I have the good ol 270 Win in a SS Tikka. I can get 3140 fps with a Barnes 130g TTSX using a stout dose of Ramshot powder. I feel like a dinosaur, but it is not broke so I am not going to "fix it" by spending money on a new cartridge. Great video by the way. Very informative.👍
I’ve been really big into long range shooting since 1995. Shot a lot of .308, then got into .260 Remington, 6.5s, .338 Lapua Magnum, .300 Win Mag, 7mms, etc. I broke out the old pre-’64 Mod 70 Winchester .270 a few weeks ago because my boy kept bugging me about it. That thing punches the steel so hard at 400yds. I used the Dead-Hold BDC in the scope for 400yds and it was spot-on.
Why would you spend more money on a worse cartridge for hunting? its not like you are carrying 120 rounds of ammo with you on a hunting trip.
Sounds interesting.....
But I'll stay with my 270.
I live 1/2 hour from the sig store and 20' from where Ron was talking they sell the real Fury cartridges for $80 a box. Like you, I'm sticking with my 270. Low cost, low recoil, nothing to not like about it.
That is a beautiful quail picture!
Another Great Video Ron 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Hi Ron, great video, as usual! Keep it up.
- one other consideration is that the Sig Cross rifle for the. 308 and 6.5 CM are already designed for the 80,000 psi, hence they don't look much different to these 277 version. (From a manufacturing perspective this makes far more sense, plus I seem to recall that this is what was said when the Cross rifle were initially released)
- the shorter barrel makes sense a) for the military to make a handier and lighter weapon, b) use of military suppressors and still be under 20" barrel and suppressor
- that DOES translate to hunting - suppressors :- maybe don't need 16", but 18" with a Banish Backcountry - again so that overall length is down around 20"-22" - very useful - plus light weight - so balances better when carrying
- high pressure allows faster powders, so that burn up is achieved faster in case and short barrel - much like the Ruger and Hornardy cartridges the RCMs and 375/416 Ruger, and 375 Ruger tops the 375H&H numbers in 20" barrel, not 24" ->> and NO-ONE complained about a more handy dangerous game rifle...
- higher pressure will need a suppressor
- higher pressure will allow more efficient burn, this reducing barrel burn risk
- this use of .277 bullets is superb news for all hunters and shooters - will drive the development of lots more .27/6.8 bullets with high BC and Sectional Density and strong (mono metal and bonded, and terminal ascent etc) - with the slow twist rate of the old 270 there was NO incentive or market to develop .270 bullets, saved they have lagged far behind 7mm and .30 bullets designs (just like with the .25 cal situation). This new .277 Fury will be an excellent catalyst! Already Browning has announced new rifles in .270Win with 1:8 twist barrels as an option - YAY! Already the pendulum swings towards the good for ALL .270Win users, even if they choose to stick to their existing rifles - but there will be new ammo choices coming for then to consider in there future
- the Sig Cross hunting rifle is very compact, and had a superb folding stock that helps reduce weight and size. Combined that with a short and or shortish barrel that is suppressor ready for handy overall length :- and you've got a great handy hunting rifle package
- yet to be seen, but I suspect that the SAAMI specs with be tight - like the Hornardy PRCs, the 6.8 Western, the Weatherby RPMs etc -> modern accurate cartridge designs, and handle the same long-for-calibre high-BC high-SD (sectional density) bullets that make the 6.8 so great.
Overall -> lots to be excited about, and things that still spill over to the benefit of all shooters and hunters - esp users of the .270Win
A rising tide benefits all the boats in the same harbour 😊
6.8 Western rules 🇦🇺😃
This will be nothing but problems. Every aspect of this is prone to failure. It will never replace the m16 ar15 platform long term. Its gona eat barrels and jam like crazy
Good evening Mr. Spomer.
Mr Patrick said they dropped it to closer to 70k psi. , that will cut some of the benefit. I would say, 20" barrel to get .270 win speeds . So, short action 270 is what you will get. Nothing more, nothing less. If I was a Western hunter, I'd choose 6.8 western over the fury any day. Higher BC, more bullet weight, it's a no brainer, but since I've already got more rifles than I need, I'm sticking with my 270 win. Been a mighty good friend to me for 30 yrs.
Hay Ron you should talk about the difference in the three methods of measuring pressures. Winchester using one method. military using another method. Something like that.
Don't remember the episode but ge has
Just SAAMI vs CIP and NATO EPVAT testing.
Why would I want a neutered 277? Most of the ammo out there for civilians will have brass only cases for a long long time.
Theb its just a 7mn 08
@@jimwest19677mm08 with +10k PSI
The reality is that the Army is adopting the cartridge, and over time ammunition contracts will cause more manufacturers to make it.
Also, there will probably be subsequent improvements.
The muzzle blast is going to loosen some fillings and your ears are going to leave the chat....
Thats why you run a suppressor
the muzzle blast from the supressed rifle and LMG?
I want to see more of your dog! Great production, I always love watching you
For a civilian wanting a hunting caliber, I can’t see the point of an 80KSI cartridge would be. The fury basically replicates a 270wsm or 6.8 western. So, get one of those.
For a military force, keeping the 308 case dimensions and upgrading power makes a lot of sense. Lots of easy conversions from AR-10s or belt fed machine guns if you keep the same case (roughly). Same belt links, same magazines, same tooling for the assembly lines. Lots of savings there at scale, even if you can’t just drop a new barrel/bolt on an existing firearm.
I thought I heard the Sig guy say the commercial round will be loaded to lower pressures (Than 80,000 psi) for increased accuracy.?
Yes might as well get a 7mm 08.
I'm sure they will have a "military" branded round that has the 80k psi. I also remember seeing a video where they said they have tested it up to 100k psi, in case the military wants to go that route. But, for hunting rounds it will probably bet that 70k psi for the barrel and accuracy performance. Since hunters will more than likely be the early adopters of the cartridge, and collectors.
id rather just buy a 7mm 08
The 277 kicks ass, but I can't afford it
308, that's Ron's favorite
Ackley improve the 7/08 with a steel head
@@petercraft8634 and use high pressure powder
I shoot 7mm0.8 😮
Good video
I have the 6.8 already and love it
I once shot an 85 gr, 243 Win lead soft point at a 1/2” plate of AR-550 steel at the range of 35 yards. That steel is supposed to withstand up to 338 Magnum at 100 yards. The little bullet, at 35 yards, was going so fast that it punched a hole through the 550 steel that looked like it was punched with a paper punch. Clean little hole! I was completely surprised as were my shooting buddies!
Yep,not often realized or known is the little 243 because of its size and speed outdoes many bigger calibers when punching steel.
An issue I can see is the amount of investment that will have to be done at Lake City in order to manufacturer the steel head ammo in the amount the military needs.
I don't know if it's ever going to make sense for your rear echelon troops that just need a rifle for when SHTF, especially given the cost of the Sigs and the inventory of Colts and FNs we've already got. So I'm not so confident 5.56 is going anywhere either.
The shorter barrel is definitely the appeal on this cartridge. The military is going to be using this with semi and full auto with a suppressor. Try and put the suppressor on the 270 and clear a room lol
I'm not sure if it exists yet , but I await the introduction of either the 7mm/378 Wby....or the 270 /378 Wby. That would be pretty awesome!!!
I can't wait to see it not saying I will run out and buy one.
Ron how do you think they married the brass and the steel. I would think this would be a weak area for reloading. How about cutting it in looking at a cross section?Great video and explanations thank you so much! I can’t wait to shoot this thing and it does sound like it’ll be pretty loud
I recall several yrs ago a company with steel head cases. The brass screwd onto the case head. Those were reloadable n when brass went buy knew n screw it on the head an go on.
It didn't go over well except in small circles
What could you line a barrel with to take the kind of heat full auto would generate at 80000psi? Heck we can't even put good chrome in our barrels thanks to the EPA.
Ron, I’m 68 and very active in shooting sports. Shot 180 matches last year, as well as hunting. I remember Jack O’Connor, ( I was 21 when he died). Very happy with the 270 win calibre, for hunting, out to a max of 250m. Never would take a shot beyond that on a living “critter”. We call it deer stalking, where I’m from and fair chase. Enjoy your work.
A 6 ARC with that higher pressure would have been great.
We got trained one shot, one kill... it turned I to one mag, one kill with 5.56. Hate that litte round
7x57 is the OG .
I'm sticking with the 270 wsm t
Saw an ad for Fury ammo in an Adventure Outdoors flyer.
Excellent video, as always. This cartridge may meet military requirements, improving upon the 5.56 considerably, and offering greater lethality and range than the 7.62x51. As hunting cartridges go, the 277 Fury is a solution desperately in search of a problem. It will offer 6.8 performance from a shorter-barreled rifle. In very select instances, that might be appealing to some folks. For the vast majority of hunters, specifically those who do NOT conflate shooting with hunting, they will continue to get well within the effective PBR of traditional rifle cartridges, like the 270 Winchester, and will continue to harvest game with great aplomb, just as they always have. As a lifelong reloader, this cartridge is a complete non-sequitur for yours truly. I'd sooner date my ugly cousin that own a rifle chambered to fire that atrocity. I wish Jack was here, to offer his thoughts. His unique blend of experience and knowledge, aka "wisdom", and his unparalleled ability to concisely explain the truth of a hunting-related topic, is sorely missed in today's world. What you read or view, these days, is politically-correct and invariably panders to whichever sponsors are paying the bills, this week. I suspect that is the only means by which this cartridge ever gets off the drawing board, at least as far as big game hunters are concerned.
21:13 There is already a 9mm cartridge with the 2 piece case. Available in quantity.
Also, It can be reloaded. You just need special dies. This system is designed for competition shooters.
Great video Ron! I'm with you Ron; I'm going to stick with my .270 Win. What kind of felt recoil do you think a 140gr .277 Fury will be with a lightweight bolt action rifle? It better come with a nice, comfy recoil pad!
We have a of actual, real-world ballistic data on the .270 Winny. The .277 Fury hybrid cartridge is still vaporware until we get hundreds of hunters get actual loads, into actual rifles, used on actual game/targets.
A reduction of 10k psi in the Hybrid case 6.8x51mm will 100% cause the XM8 to miss the original contract requirements.
Is it an improvement? Yes. Is it worth me getting a new expensive rifle and new accessories? No. I will stick to my 243.
Over at Ultimate Reloader they just dropped a video, 308 Winchester with Alpha brass. Went up a grain of powder a time, starting at max loading. They went past 100000psi with a 215 Berger and ended up at just over 2700fps. They didn’t start seeing any signs of pressure until they were quite a bit over 100k. 2,700fps is well into 300WM territory.
They started making it at Lake City 2 years ago. However, it only took over the 30-06 production. There was a new contract issued to build a new building to increase production, but I am unsure if it has been built yet. My wife works with the government contracts and I have seen the press releases.
Most people do not understand what the higher pressure does. It does not make it faster, that would require more powder. What it does is enable the use of faster-burning powders that work well in shorter barrels. In addition, it will burn barrels less because of the more complete burn inside the case instead of down the barrel.
Spot on! They got it right 99 years ago! But I’m sure a bunch of people will run out to buy the soup de jour and pay $6-10/round. I’m sticking with jack coopers favorite.
I love your pictures of quail in the background
Thanks Harold. I photographed those two years ago along the Boise River. Can make you a print.
The .277 is really cool…..however….do we as hunters need it ? But if it’s your cup of tea…enjoy. With a brake and all that pressure it’s gonna be LOUD
Not really. A strange thing about running a given amount of powder with a higher max chamber pressure is that more energy is expended in the first few inches of the barrel and less later on. The current military rifle's barrel is only 13" long to give you an idea of where powder burnout is. The 277 Fury holds roughly the same amount of powder as a 7mm-08, but uses more of the powder's energy in the first 10 inches, meaning the remaining pressure at the end of the barrel will actually be lower.
Hell yeah i need it so i can run a 14inch barrel with a suppressor and still reach way out
I got a few hundred pieces of the high pressure bi-metal fury brass for cheap and I'm just resizing it for 243, works great.
Total step backwards in tactical use. While the cartridge does have ballistic advantages, tactically it gives the foot soldier less. More weight per round means less carried, less magazine capacity (20 vs 30), more recoil, two different pressures/ ballistics. Support soldiers will still carry the M4 and 5.56. It will be like WWII, people dumping the M7 for a lighter, handier and more ammo of the M4. (vs M1 Garand/M1 Carbine)
I’ve already got a custom rifle in 277 Fury. I’ve had it for about 2 years.
You can make an action stronger, not necessarily by adding steel Ron, but by hardening the steel it's made from.
Barrel erosion can easily solved. But at a cost of course. Inconel 718,ARP 3.5, or AerMet can be used. Never been used for this application but that doesn't mean it can't.
Have you seen the .308 vs .277 fury vs steel by banana ballistics? I love my x bolt .308 and the .270 cartridges. But that video says a lot
Also, it sounds like there will be training rounds for the army around the more typical 50,000 psi, and combat loads at the 80,000 mark.
Everything around this is built to modernize the infantry rifle to deal with armor plates
I know at my gun stores around here 277 sig fury ammo can be commonly found but as mentioned rifles are near nonexistent
Rifle strength is not really a problem. When I ran the numbers, pretty much any rifle that can handle a PRC or WSM cartridge has enough strength for 80,000 psi 277 Fury. Remember, the PRC and WSM cartridge cases are larger diameter than the Fury, and that is a big part of the equation.
Are you seeing the steel head 80,000psi ammo, or is it the all brass case 60,000psi?
@@ricomock2 Some of it is the 150 grain Hybrid ammo (low pressure is 130). The site Ammo Seek usually has a page of so of sources.
@@ricomock2he’s not seeing the real stuff, as its not even available yet
The use of this new SIG cartridge, is about as useful as " Wet Toilet paper ." There is already to many new cartridges. Very few are really needed . Undoubtedly, it's going to burn out barrels way to quick .
Should do a direct comparison between 277 fury and the 6.8 western?
Another great video Ron, and some good information. Nobody seems to want to talk real numbers about cost. Some of the articles I’ve read are estimating cost to the military of $2,000+ per combat ready rifle and $6-$8 per shell. As a taxpayer this bothers me when we can nearly duplicate the performance in a necked down .308. As a hunter/shooter, I can’t see paying 2 or 3 times the cost of the tried and true 270. The average younger shooter in his or her 20’s thinking about paying rent and starting a family may end up doing a lot less shooting if they have to pay $100+ per box of 20. Get a 270 and shoot Superformance ammo if you’re worried about an extra 100 fps.
You raise some valid concerns, but the brass (lol) is clearly gearing upnfor a near-peer threat with enemy combatants who wear good armor. The point is to increase the effectiveness of burst fire against saod armor without having to make every rifleman carry a 240 with tungsten cored apnrounds.
Good thing i didnt hold my breath that first year (3+ years ago) when I heard Sig say the 277 Fury will be shipping in just few months. LOL I will belive it when I see it but yes if this hybrid catridge comes to market it will stimulate a whole new line of cartridges. We will for sure see this necked down to .224 and /or 6mm.
There was a guy making Steelheads to add to your cases for high-power shooters 40 years ago. He sold them at rifle matches. And they were testing them at 80,000 PSI even then. While I know the 277 diameter bullets are good, I have always preferred the 25, 264, 284 and 30. On the other hand having a 308 sized case approaching a 7 Remington Magnum would be pretty nice. Turn a .338 federal into a stomper...
There are already some handloaders forming this “fury brass” into other cartridges and slowly bumping the pressures up.
It's interesting that Sig straightened the wall and pushed up the shoulder. The convention since the advent of repeating arms seems to have been that tapers improve reliability. I hope this shows how much anufacturers have learned since the late 1800s!
Or they might have learned nothing, but landed a contract through corruption and lack of adequate testing. That does not look like a cartridge that will be friendly to belt feds to me.
I saw a couple of boxes from Sig Sauer in the store but nothing from the big ammo manufacturers yet
I'm old school They are proven.They work well but I really like seeing the new stuff
So if the pressure drops down I imagine we will see less velocity. Suddenly the 270 Win looks a lot better. I believe the 6.8 western is better than either except I don’t like Winchester ammo.
Try browning ammo 175 g
Not easy to find the steel head military ammo you can find the all brass version of that. Which means that is not the high pressure load.
The crux is at 8:43: “This is conjecture on my part.”
Ive dipped into over pressure like some handloaders do. Just to see. I think most rifles handle it well. Brass cases do NOT handle it well. They go to the graveyard.
I saw Sig Fury ammo on the shelf today.
I’m new to the channel here!
Cool. High time I AI my 22-250 and cranked it up to 80,000 psi
Hi Ron; On another YT site, the host was presenting several old/new (1930's) versions of the BAR (30.06) The host was shooting a Colt BAR, modified (less weight) for the FBI, circa 1935.
Using a slo-mo camera, the Colt had what I would consider barrel-whip, likely caused by a lighter, less steel, FBI barrel. I am surprised at the low loss of velocity between 16 and 24 inch barrels.
It would be good to see if there is any barrel-whip with these high pressure rounds. Many bench shooters rest the firearm loosely in a stand, vs holding the weapon as in taking a standing hunting shot.
Slo-Mo could show us the position of the barrel when the bullet exits the end of the barrel. One could expect barrel-whip with a longer barrel. How does whip affect accuracy?
It's best to wait and see what actually comes to the commercial market before making comparisons. When we see actual ammo and rifles tested and velocities measured from the shorter barrels, I'll believe the hype. If the high velocities are achieved with the short barrels it will be a great round for hunting with a suppressor.
A couple manufacturers have reloading dies available for 277 Fury and they claim it is reloadable. That will open up a lot of great bullets for use but it always takes a fair amount of time before reliable data covers all flavors of powder and bullets!
I reload for it. At just short of 80k for a node. Works great.
Case base needs to be resized. I loaded 270 win that I shot from my rifle then reloaded them for a friend. My friend could not chamber the reloaded round. Come to find out after checking my sizing die that I missed sizing to the case rim by 1 mm.
I'm curious what powder they are using to get that pressure. Another thing about Weatherby pressures. The are jumping the bullets .200-250 thousandth
Hodgson will engineer custom powders on request.
Hey Ron, while I enjoy diving into calibers and ballistics, I really enjoy listening to you seamlessly tell us a story 😉. I do have a question though. The 270 WSM has been on my list of hunting rifles to add to my collection and to test bullets. However, with the introduction of the 6.8 western a few years ago I realized it was a modern version of the 270 WSM. I am not one to just jump on the band wagon of the latest and greatest. After a few years now I am struggling with the choice still between the 270 WSM and 6.8 western. While I will eventually hand load either one of these. I still look at ammo cost and availability. I would like your opinion on this and whether you think the 6.8 western is a lead balloon or not? Please overlook my grammatical errors. I listen while out working and replied hurriedly. Thanks and God bless
I have a .270WSM and absolutely love it.
A friend of mine has a 6.8 Western and loves his as well.
You are correct...the 6.8 addresses the deficiencies of the 270WSM
I guess the question is whether or not the 6.8 is going to stick around.
Either way you are going to be happy as they are both excellent cartridges in my humble opinion.
Have fun and behave. If you can't behave...be safe.
277 fury = 270 wsm = 6.8 western
Finally someone asked!