True Deli case convert from R134a to R404a
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- Deli case running at 54 degrees with worn compressor I replaced the R134a with R404a to get additionjal capacity and brought the temperature down to 34 degrees.
Allied Refrigeration 440-823-5720 Cleveland, Ohio
I am ready to embark on changing a 55 year old remote condenser w/ R12 and was going 134a now I'm going 404A thank you for sharing
Great video Jim. You are very knowledgeable and do a good job sharing it with others. Thanks for sharing!
Jim I have been working on units for about 37 years now, And have never thought of doing that, I will from now on. Neat idea, And I work on a lot of old units. And your right they are all trying to save money.
Jim thank you very much for your teaching and God bless you for your teaching
you are a really true tech I love all your video's keep em coming!!!
So wonderful lecture thoroughly explained thank you so much.
Jim, thank you. Followed your lead on this. Used 404a to keep some older capillary systems going and cold!
You just took the old refrigerant out and dropped in r404a?
Thanks to sharing your experience, Jim. Gratefully thank you for every episode of your videos.
I am new in the trade, I learn a lot from you, from the lone star state thank you sir!!!!
Thank you for sharing your trade experience with us. I am learning a lot.
I've always adjusted the evap coil inlet/outlet TD. 10-15 degrees TD
I've never heard of that being done before. I'll keep that in mind next I run into one. Thanks for posting.
Because you know what your doing and the dumb ass in this video don't. So don't listen to him or use plumbing flux and solder on any refrigeration or Teflon on a flare.
nice to see you videos again
love the 404 and compressor explanation great words i love working on refrigeration because of all ur video ur a great teacher god bless and have a merry Christmas
Man I sure have learned a lot from you I wish I could have you as a teacher Jim if you ever come to Missouri I would like to meet you THANK YOU!!!!!!!
I'm love your videos Jim! Excellent information and very interesting.
If your high AND low side pressures were low when you started, the compressor was fine. The problem was either a faulty TX valve (best bet), or maybe an oil-logged evaporator. A compressor that isn't pumping well will have higher suction pressures, not lower.. Regardless, what you did worked....
Nice work as always Jim!
I had a customer buy an old R404A refrigerated truck freezer which they removed from the truck to use as a chiller, it had too much duty at chiller temperatures and the compressor was working outside of its design parameters so we changed it to R134a!
I like R404A but it is being phased out here, been told price is going up 20% next month and then again soon after to try and make people switch to alternatives.
That's a shame, 404a prices have dropped here, I can get a 24 lb bottle for $89.00. The intermediate refrigerants like mp39 are being fazed out, their prices are rising.
How you doing Johnso you say that they're phasing out R-404 in the UK what about R-507
hardcooling
Its pretty much any refrigerant with a global warming potential over 2500, R404A is 3922 and R507A is 3985 so both are on the phase down list.
They are pushing for us to use R152a, R32, R1234yf, and R1234ze along with propylene/propane etc. All the low global warming refrigerants seem to be flammable to varying degrees. Going to be interesting when they become common.
*****
I love your video Jim. 100 percent agrees with you i love 404 a so much.
a lot of information your videos are amazing Thanks Jim
Another great video, thank you. Stay-Brite8 been using it for 20 years on hvac systems.
thanks
This is a neat trick for specific situations. I think I might try this. I hope you didn't buy a sandwich that day!
Very good information on super heat and charging tips.
Thank's for taking the time to make your video's. I really appreciate your work
thanks
Great video thanks for taking time to share
thanks
Like your video
Sir. Jim your amazing . I hope you make a book of refrigeration and airconditioning. Or cd.
Thanks Jim I'm going try it. Thanks for sharing that advice
Like always, another awesome video Jim.
Great job Jim. Good tip on the amps, thanks for posting.
I'VE DONE THIS BEFORE AND WORKING VERY FINE
Good vid Jim. Thx 4 posting. While I disagree w/your practice of 'teflon' on dryer, if it works for you then have at it.
Thx again, good info.
Oil only on flare fitting!!!. It should never leak past the flare!!!
Thanks alot Jim. very nice video and informative.
Thank you for the video Jim...great info....what should the pressures for 404a should be on this coolers.
Great video Jim! Question, when changing over from R134 to R404 does the amount of refrigerant needed change at all since the capacity changes? Or would a box that has a name plate charge amount of 2lbs 7oz still take the same amount. I will have to keep this in mind next time i have a small 134 box giving me problems, i get alot of them that the 134 turns waxy and blocks the cap tube and or cap tube dryer.
I charged it by the sight glass, head pressure and amperage. I've opened many cap tubes with a torch, Thanks
I love it guys
I don't know how you feel about global warming, but I don't believe it. That's another discussion. I like R404a, its very efficient. I agree with heatpump vac that it should be used in domestic applications. Always appreciate your videos. Thanks.
thanks
Great video Jim!! Good stuff!
You are awesome, I Lear a lot from you,thanks,
the little mom and pop stores in cleveland area, are they good to pay the bill you give on time or do they just pay by check/cash at time of service?
Also, what about the customers/bar owners with beer/keg coolers?
+refrigeration tech I collect when I'm done
Hi. I enjoy your videos, your explanations, and your work. Keep the videos coming! I need your opinion please. I have two small domestic Haier R600a chest freezers whose compressors have died. Could the R600a be removed, the system nitrogen purged, and a similar horsepower R134a compressor and R134a or R404a refrigerant installed? The freezers are 110-120 volt A/C, and the replacement R600a compressor is no longer available. The freezer cabinets are in "like new' condition. Thanks for your time and response.
I noticed that you did not flush the system out with liquid nitrogen before you brazed the expansion valve. I wonder if that would pose a hazard for me, if I brazed other smaller deli cases without flushing the system first. Brazing without flushing the lines is something that I obviously would not do if i was working on a bigger system.
Good video,very informative,cheers
Thank s Jim walk in box working good
Great video, thanks.
thanks for the course
Good job bro I didn't know that that comprosser could work with 404 the compressor in my work 134 don't have those spect
Great video Jim, this video really shows your expertise in the field and your knowledge of these systems, I found this video very informative. I would guess the lower amp draw on the compressor might be due to the superheat being at a lower temp keeping the windings of the compressor cooler, thats my two cents on it anyway lol. I was wondering if you could explain the delta T comment you made and where you were putting your temp probes to get your two delta T measurements. Thanks Jim great video thanks for posting.
if you look when I'm taking off the old expansion valve you can see the two clamps @ 5:50. one is just after the TXV on the evap inlet and the other is by the TXV bulb on the evap outlet.
Very nice fix jim
404A Systems have about double the capacity that's the main reason why it's so much faster than R134 for the same or is power
good comment, thanks
I meant horse power at the end of that lol not or power
I hav ben in HVAC world for a while!!! R 22 R410a 407c?!
Enjoyed this video!
Refrigeration I have never really had an interest... but I'm starting to get curious for a few things!
Just to stay busy or hav as a backup!!
I would have done the same thing you did here!!
Match the expansion valve to the better refrigerant!?
Or new 134 expansion valve & try 134a again(since 134a is cheaper to obtain!?)!!
I jus don't like small inaccessible units at times.... but it beats working under a house or a hot rooftop!?
Bahahahah ikr!!!
why did you show us how you went about the new charging amout how did you go about the 404 in pounds vs the orginal 134 charged most of us would have like to know that
An excellent video.
Yeah i like 404a to why don't they use it in refrigerators instead of 134a its faster and takes less time and money
I agree, thanks
Yeah I know things would stay colder and get older faster after a defrost cycle or if you have brought some home from the store to
great video a lot of information.
Thanks Jim
Great tip.
I'm just an automobile tech. I drive a 2009 gmc savanna Duramax box truck style. Could I convert ac system to 404. I want it colder and factory system won't keep it cool. Too much trapped heat finds it way in from engine and dpf system..
I can drop in replace Compressor to a 404 compressor. Can I replace orface tube to a different size to accomplish it. Would I need a bigger or smaller restriction in orface tube?
I'd also do a rear core add in and new dryer and a extra dryer to cool rearbox
Nice work Jim
thanks
Great work *****. Question did the refrigerant charge vary from the name plate sense it's now retro fitted to 404a. Amp draw, sight glass and TD will get me in the ball park? Thx for sharing Jim appreciate you sharing your experience.
Great video ..
Mr Pettinato after my graduation 2012 your videos is for me one of best, the way you teach is simple one my question to you is ok to use 134a and 404a on the same compressor? let me know is you have any video you work on compressor with more of one refrigerant thank you for me you are my virtual teacher
+Frank Garcia on smaller systems it's usually OK, just check your amps and head pressures, thanks
Thanks Mr Pettinatto
Hey jim your videos are amazing, again i wanted to ask you if having that sandwich prep that uses r134 can i use r r404 at all? maybe the compressor wont be holding up with it? i really want 30 degrees in that unit and i cant figure it out to make it colder, thanks
Geo Von Lengerke add POE oil and R404a, watch your amperage, if you run it at 30 degrees you'll ice up the evap coil.
Besides R134a, which refrigerant would you use to repace R12 in a walk in freezer? R134a doesn't work too well in a low temp application.
i'd probably put a comparable R404a compressor and valve in it and go with R 404a
Thanks for your advice. This is an old system with a copeland semi-hermetic, zero temp box. We found some R-12, but not enough. May be able to find more hopefully. This is for a "open door ministries" that give free meals, and I am trying to keep the cost down as much as possible. They are donation funded. I found the leak, and perhaps it might be best to stay with the R-12 rather than do an expensive change over. By the way, I hope to be seeing more of your videos. Don't keep us waiting too long. Hope you are in good health and doing well.......... riteway
mo49plus had the same issue you described, trying to keep cost down and with r12 not available i had to find something comparable. im working in buenos aires by the way so cost is a concern. no oil change either for the mineral oil in r12 systems
hey quick question thermostatic expansion valves. where you have liquid charged sensing element. which do you normally use?
Thanks for your videos. I want to do the opposite here, I have an old R404a ice cream freezer that was empty of freon, and want to charge it with R134a and make it a fridge instead of freezer.
Think I'm going to just try it, looks like it would work based on this video, but would use more electricity compared to a correct sized cap tube. Maybe I make a video too?
HA, tried it and sure enough it works great, but only goes down to 20F, so won't reach freezer 0F temps, but no problem for a fridge.
Hi sir jim.. i want to ask something about the sensing bulb distance or inch from outlet of the evaporator? And the sensing bulb connected to a 5/8" copper tubing. Is it okay the position of my sensing bulb 1 o'clock? Im always watching ur vedios sir jim. God bless more power to you.
Good job
thanks
Good info, thanks.
thanks
You are crazy guy , but I like your video!
good video, if u can, make a video on how to do a proper vacuum,thans
like your videos but i have one question waht kind of brazing rod was that or soft soder and is ok to use it it seemed really easy and quick to braze
+ERNESTO GUERRERO I thought the same thing I always use silfos even on txv's
Jim, Nice Job.. I am looking into buying the CPS recovery unit. I just don't know how it would perform in the South Florida heat, especially on a rooftop.
Get an appointment or a bacharach. the cps doesn't have a condenser.
thanks, I was also looking at the Appion G2
Putting this thing in a bath of ice water has even old clunky ancient recovery machines working like a dream www.google.com/shopping/product/14512916714885685841?q=makes+refrigerant+recovery+faster&client=firefox-b-1-m&prds=paur:ClkAsKraXws0YbRFlHfSiPIs_WQGPfJMZxyy2AoctZRqnh47V5sWxbFvKNLNcDHwfMpcRstURW8CR0XKshbP-C_9Kea_ZurZR-qMSruwiech96GDWy1Y4gKR-hIZAFPVH72C9KNnaS-lQIzP3U8vyURIdpuauQ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTxaXJ1sTiAhVEYKwKHeOWCVAQ8wIIDA
hey jim good video. refrigerant R-404A does it have a higher head pressure than R-134A?
404a runs higher pressure vs 134a. In a conversion like Jims this is acceptable as long as the compressor RLA is within nameplate specs. The only potential worry may be short cycling due to the extra capacity. Just depends on the particular system. I've done similar conversions. R407C and R407F can also be used depending on temp range.
HEY thanks for the information.I've put in R-404a in my jeep and works really well.
Until the high pressure beats the compressor to death. Or smokes the compressor clutch.
My refrigerater 134a refrigerant using but if same purpus another gase have. Or no have
Hi,in a 404a compresor can i put 134a ? I need only 2 maybe 5 gr.Celsius ,thanks
Mr Jim how are you doing ?
Jim how do you like this recovery machine, I'm looking to get new one, this one looks like small convenient machine.
it doesn't have a condenser on it, I have a Bacharach that does, I used an Appion for years, they're good too. My sugestion either the Bacharach or the Appion
Thank you, cause its guys out here robbing us on repairs.
Cool that the condenser was able to handle the R-404 sometimes it doesn't work I have changed Freon on bigger systems and had to either change the condenser or add a condenser
exactly
How you been doing lately jim
hardcooling thawing out, it was a cold winter, getting ready for summer.
soft solder?
hi,how to adjust 404 compressor having 22 valve auto cut adjuster? thank you
thanks for the info on 134 / 404
walking chiller 404 gas how much pressure
how did you size the txv?
Could 404 be used in a residential freezer in their lab with 134, hosp I svc has asked me on it, they want to supply their 404 because they do not want to buy a can of 134 hosp makes huge bucks but is cheap with their maint dept, I don't do much refrig work.
If it's a small residential freezer, I would probably stick with 134a
I wonder if one could change a household refrigerator from 134A to 404A with any success?
+Clarence Nesmith it might be too much stress on a small compressor
Thanks Jim
Also what size TXV/cartridge did you use?
it was a 1/2 ton valve my supply house assembled
I Really want to build my own AC unit for my small work shop out of a old car AC compressor and belt drive electric motor. what HP motor do you think would run a compressor like that?? It most likely be a R134a system since you can buy the kits and all the stuff at most stores.
Ben Boudreau no idea. a motor and materials cost $100. a window AC cost $100.
Oh ok well I just thought it would be cool steam punk looking AC build that's why.
Ben Boudreau do it if you want to for fun, but I think it will cost more and you'll invest a lot of time and it might not work that well, but those trial and error situations are excellent learning situations and fun, sometimes. Let me know how it turns out.
Take the compressor to a motor repair shop and ask them what size motor you would need, that's their expertise.
A car AC is designed to cool the car's small interior, a workshop has a lot more cubic feet of area to cool.
how do you size the txv?
Why do you have to adjust the valve if it's brand new curious ?
KQP Twin everyone thinks they come adjusted, they don't.
Ok when adjust looking for 18 to 20 degrees superheat
good evening jim im from Andorra originally from the Philippines , as you said in your video you can change 134 to 404 controlling the amperage of the compressor but in the reference put only 134A in the compressor can i use 404 without any problem ? (ref.CAJ4476Y Tecumseh)
this was a last resort
I need info on that bright flash-lite!
Major Payne th-cam.com/video/qWCaBBZd788/w-d-xo.html
Would you recommend 404a for cap tube system?
ritewayguy I've done it several times, works great, and you don't have to change the cap tubes.
can you use 404a in cars in place of 134a?
the head pressures might be too high and the txv might not work properly
Thanks
are you using reg solder why not 15% silver solder ?
ANd they should use R407c in heat pumps not R410A because R410a runs way to high of a head pressure
Right, there should be a law that the equipment engineers should work in the field, on hot roofs , get them out in the trenchs. thanks
Yeah I know and I live in NC witch state do you live in
heatpump hvac I'm just west of Cleveland, Ohio on Lake Erie
I live in mount airy NC have you ever been down here before just wondering
heatpump hvac I lived in Myrtle Beach back in the late 80's for 4 yrs
Thank u for Take The Time and dot This Video.. God bless
Okay I am confused why you are going from R134a to R404a. R404a has a poor temp glide in medium temp application. Plus is the condenser coil sided for subcooling needed for 1/2 ton evaporator coil. I would think that the oil would boil out and cook the compressor after a short time. If capacity is the issue why are you not replacing the condenser unit to match the btu load needed?
Holy crap you never put leak lock on a flare!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you even know what you are doing? WOW That will cause it to leak.