As a 35 year technician, my pet peeve is people who use soft solder in any type of refrigeration due to vibration. I cannot begin to tell you how many leaks I have fixed behind people who use this solder. They are also very hard to fix using silfos brazing. I know it takes a lot more heat, but any technician worth his or her salt will be able to braze using good techniques with no problems brazing any filter or copper pipe. Also have found solder paste plugged strainers. Overall a very good video, nice job!
Samuel Sheffield stay brite #8 was developed in the 70s for high side vibrator eliminators on R 502 due to the higher pressures and heat tension. 95 5 solder was used prior, it didn't hold up to R 502. Stay Brite#8 has 5% silver, I use it on parts that may have to be replaced like expansion valves or deier filters, that's my preference, thanks for the comment.
Sorry hit wrong button. 15 % silos will cover the whole heat and tension spectrum. There is not much 502 around anymore. I understand the lesser heat issue and that does have some value. Like I said fixed way too many leaks behind that stuff. It is cheaper and way ease to do. But on the other hand if it works for you why not do it. Thanks for your reply.
From what I've read Stay-Brite #8 has been used on even 410a systems without problems and some guys especially prefer to use it on heat sensitive parts like txv's due to liquidus at 535f and can use mapp gas without nitrogen some claim because the carbon soot doesn't form until higher temps are reached. Harris website actually claims a potentially stronger joint than brazed due to lack of annealing base metals. What I don't like is how much prep is involved in cleaning up all the joints and fluxing. And as far as being cheaper, I don't think so, at $75 per pound.
That's why most do not use it. They do not want to take the time to clean. 15 Percent you just braze dirt and all leaving you with a weak copper after your done. Not to mention leaving black soot in the pipe. Nitrogen will fix this but if they do not have time clean they will not have time to attach nitrogen to the system.
I have to say I agree 100 % on all of your videos I've watched so far I was a Service Tech. for over 30 years and I to wanted all the calls I went on to look neat when I left and you have a lot of new gadgets that I never had privy to they make your job so much easier than it was for be back in the 70's and thru the 90's I finally had to retire due to my back and heart trouble but watching you sure brings back good memory's .Thank you so much for posting these you tube videos my only question for you is ? Jim where were you and these videos back in my days of trouble shooting I would have loved to have had this pleasure to watch you back then. Makes me want to come out of retirement and come ride with you for a year or so lol. God Bless and be with you always I will keep watching all of your post until I get to the last one . Thanks so very much for brightening up an old retired service tech's day.
Little tip for a heat sink. I save pieces of fiberglass insulation that come from scrap pieces of insulated duct flex. I like it because its thin. You then wet it and it can be wrapped around whatever to protect it from heat. I use Stay brite 8 but recently started brazing lines 3/8" and under (high side) to avoid loading a joint with solder while still silver soldering lines above 3/8". Enjoyed the video.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention something that happened to me once, thinking the valves were bad, came to find out, the service valve was leaking by…pissed me off wicked!
I've got the same Testo's gauges and love them but my sight glass leaks on vacuum which really sux changing gauges on the same job for different tasks. I like the oil the pipe before bending, thanks!
I would like to add some comments about this video. With out a doubt, The dryer/ filter is restricted and the tech is correct. The compressor valve issue, I am not convinced 100%. Do you see the liquid line valve and coil. This controls the on off cycle of most all commercial refrigeration units. If this valve is leaking internaly, you will see pressure changes on your gauges while the compressor is off. Some units will start to short cycle. Most units in the off position or lets say the thermostat has reached it's set temperature, this valve closes and the pressure switch on the condenser will shut the unit off. Bad valves in a compressor make your suction line unstable and will fluctuate. Some gauges "not digital" are filled with oil to keep the needle spot on. If your gauges don't have oil, you will see the needle vibrate as the piston goes up and down. The ac condenser that he does not like the metal fins "so the rain washes the coil" has not experienced a Hail storm. Laid over fins on a condenser coil take for ever to comb out. A once or twice a year wash with a water hose will keep it clean. Now that central air has moved on to 410a a high pressure blend, You are forced to change the entire unit just because of hail damage.
By cooling the copper quickly, you are actually hardening the copper. Kind of like when sword makers quenched swords in water from red hot. Letting it cool slowly will make the copper softer. Fantastic videos. I'm binge watching all of them!
Foghorn Leghorn copper does harden after being heated. and it also looses its designed pressure rating. New systems coming out have a super high head pressure. and if you heat the discharge line that is where you will have issues.
Marc, so how do you recommend sweating the discharge line to a compressor? From what I understand , if it's soft copper to begin with it's already been annealed. Does it reduce further?
+Valee B I use to rebuild semi hermetics, what I found is any metal bits like braze BBs, solder BBs, aluminum bits all end up an the bottom of the oil crankcase and stay there.
A friend asked me to check their walk in cooler that is not getting cool. The rooftop condensing unit puzzled me, as the line "leaving" the filter dryer was very COLD, yet the "inlet" side of the filter dryer is very warm. The low pressure (larger sized) line coming from the evaporator is warm. Sight glass shows no bubbles and condensing unit is cycling off and on. Down at the evaporator, the small pipe (hi side) is cool and has condensation forming on the tubing. Low side is about 60 degrees, and the output air temp is also about 60 degrees. 2 "professional" service techs have just added R12 (it's an old system) to the system, claiming it was "really low on refrigerant". Am I correct in assuming there is a problem with the filter/dryer, and it should be replaced? It seems like all the heat transfer is taking place after the filter and before the evaporator coil. Or, should I mind my own business and let the pros pump more refrigerant into this system?
love the videos, very helpful and informative. just wondering why not install another roto lock on the new compressor? do they not make diagnosing bad compressor valves easier as you front seated the suction valve in this video?
Jim, did you stop filming or retire? I just found your channel a few months ago and love your content. Another great old school tech! Please come back brother!
Jim, when you cut off that service valve, it draws from the interior of the compressor, however, this test is limited to the extent of how much refrigerant do you actually have entrained in the oil. Until you get all the refrigerant boiled out of the oil, you really dont know , am I leaking back through the valves or rings, or is the refrigerant boiling out of the oil appearing to be a ring or valve leak. What I try doing is to put a torch on the sump to add a bit of heat to boil out any remain refrigerant and jump out the LP. You should be able to pull 16” of vacuum and hold for a minute anyways. If the sump stays warm and it won’t pull a vacuum, Thats when I condemn the compressor. I’ve poured oil into a #10 can and watched it boil for over an hour from entrained refrigerant.
hvac01453 there shouldn't be any refrigerant in the oil when the compressor just finished running. migration only happen when the unit is off for long time and it's cold outside. that's what crankcase heater for. the only thing I would've done different is I'd flow n2 when brazing. I didn't see it on the video.
everyone has an opinions on how or what or what is right way to do. I though u followed the the practice pretty good. the copper shavings does bother me some. do u suppose the reed that is cracked may be some of the debriefing from it plugged filter? .
hello there,i need your consent small, i connected a 5hp panasonic ac condensing unit to a german evaporator \TEV\which is about 3ft wide in a 20ft container, am using it for iceblock making,everything use to work fine but now facing a lil problem with frequent drier filter blockage,am told to flush out the system because of the frequent blockage,i also found out that there is a leak on the pressure valve, is it advisable to disconnect the pressure valve and make the system direct,and do you think using a normal ac condensing unit of 5hp is right to run as freezer?
Jim, do you ever worry about getting copper shavings in the lines from drilling for the ports? Ive always used an awl to start the hole and then ream it out with a phillips screwdriver. Drilling would be much easier though.
Yeah, there's usually stainless steel screens on compressor inlets and expansion valve inlets, I know what you are saying, but really haven't had any problems though.Years back I would hack saw a small x then punch through with an awl, then braze and fill. I like the Bosch tork driver with drills now.
Roto locks are easy, they ocassionally leak, the old compressor had one on it, my Copeland distributor has gotten away from them mostly. It's OK, I can pump a system down from the liquid king valve if I have to, as long as the reeds hold, Plus we have pretty good reclaimers now. Brazing in a suction shraetor valve is easy.
Optional.... but a lot less chance of stopping up the txv screen. If the TXV is partially stopped up you could end up running with high super heat. In the end you could have a toasted compressor. Why chance any of that?
I’m not gonna say names but there’s a few guys on TH-cam that shouldn’t be posting videos but your not one of them. You actually know what the hell your doing.
Mennnnn.... i'm speechless. And all the copper filling when cutting the suction pipe??? Are they going in to the compressor???? And no nitrogen against oxidation??? Thanks for your good intentions but i'm sorry, very bad work.
I don't know, maybe its a location thing. But I have never heard anyone use the term Drier filter, and all my parts catalogs call them "Filter Drier" can anyone else clarify this for me? And I have been working in the business since 1984.
Marc Shoda Yes it's definitely called a filter drier, not a drier filter, and yes you would know what they are talking about but the point is you should call the component by its real name...
Sr what wrong with you . When you in refrigeration are going to weld you must used nitrogen not to contaminated the compressor 5psi of nitrogen running in too the lines guaranty good work.. this is really bad work.. also you expand the line is okay but please don't used the rimmer on pipe is ready installed guest were all debris are going to go. Right to the compressor that is a potentia broken the suction valve... the filter dry is very sensitive used NITROGEN NOT to restrict
You so called techs kill me. You want to share all your knowledge which is great and diagnosing the drier being restricted by temp is fine but you must teach your learning viewers "what the approx normal td across the drier should be"! It's like teaching someone how to use gauges but not telling them what refrigerant they are measuring.
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As a 35 year technician, my pet peeve is people who use soft solder in any type of refrigeration due to vibration. I cannot begin to tell you how many leaks I have fixed behind people who use this solder. They are also very hard to fix using silfos brazing. I know it takes a lot more heat, but any technician worth his or her salt will be able to braze using good techniques with no problems brazing any filter or copper pipe. Also have found solder paste plugged strainers. Overall a very good video, nice job!
Samuel Sheffield stay brite #8 was developed in the 70s for high side vibrator eliminators on R 502 due to the higher pressures and heat tension. 95 5 solder was used prior, it didn't hold up to R 502. Stay Brite#8 has 5% silver, I use it on parts that may have to be replaced like expansion valves or deier filters, that's my preference, thanks for the comment.
I understand your reasoning, 15 %
Sorry hit wrong button. 15 % silos will cover the whole heat and tension spectrum. There is not much 502 around anymore. I understand the lesser heat issue and that does have some value. Like I said fixed way too many leaks behind that stuff. It is cheaper and way ease to do. But on the other hand if it works for you why not do it. Thanks for your reply.
From what I've read Stay-Brite #8 has been used on even 410a systems without problems and some guys especially prefer to use it on heat sensitive parts like txv's due to liquidus at 535f and can use mapp gas without nitrogen some claim because the carbon soot doesn't form until higher temps are reached. Harris website actually claims a potentially stronger joint than brazed due to lack of annealing base metals. What I don't like is how much prep is involved in cleaning up all the joints and fluxing. And as far as being cheaper, I don't think so, at $75 per pound.
That's why most do not use it. They do not want to take the time to clean. 15 Percent you just braze dirt and all leaving you with a weak copper after your done. Not to mention leaving black soot in the pipe. Nitrogen will fix this but if they do not have time clean they will not have time to attach nitrogen to the system.
I have to say I agree 100 % on all of your videos I've watched so far I was a Service Tech. for over 30 years and I to wanted all the calls I went on to look neat when I left and you have a lot of new gadgets that I never had privy to they make your job so much easier than it was for be back in the 70's and thru the 90's I finally had to retire due to my back and heart trouble but watching you sure brings back good memory's .Thank you so much for posting these you tube videos my only question for you is ? Jim where were you and these videos back in my days of trouble shooting I would have loved to have had this pleasure to watch you back then. Makes me want to come out of retirement and come ride with you for a year or so lol. God Bless and be with you always I will keep watching all of your post until I get to the last one . Thanks so very much for brightening up an old retired service tech's day.
Jim very inspirational video about brazing . For a new technician like me it is a very good learning channel. Thank you
Little tip for a heat sink. I save pieces of fiberglass insulation that come from scrap pieces of insulated duct flex. I like it because its thin. You then wet it and it can be wrapped around whatever to protect it from heat. I use Stay brite 8 but recently started brazing lines 3/8" and under (high side) to avoid loading a joint with solder while still silver soldering lines above 3/8". Enjoyed the video.
Thanks Jim for the tip you demonstrated on heating up the rigid suction pipe to swage it without cracking the pipe. Great Video!
-Dan
Oh yes, I forgot to mention something that happened to me once, thinking the valves were bad, came to find out, the service valve was leaking by…pissed me off wicked!
I've got the same Testo's gauges and love them but my sight glass leaks on vacuum which really sux changing gauges on the same job for different tasks. I like the oil the pipe before bending, thanks!
I would like to add some comments about this video. With out a doubt, The dryer/ filter is restricted and the tech is correct. The compressor valve issue, I am not convinced 100%. Do you see the liquid line valve and coil. This controls the on off cycle of most all commercial refrigeration units. If this valve is leaking internaly, you will see pressure changes on your gauges while the compressor is off. Some units will start to short cycle. Most units in the off position or lets say the thermostat has reached it's set temperature, this valve closes and the pressure switch on the condenser will shut the unit off. Bad valves in a compressor make your suction line unstable and will fluctuate. Some gauges "not digital" are filled with oil to keep the needle spot on. If your gauges don't have oil, you will see the needle vibrate as the piston goes up and down.
The ac condenser that he does not like the metal fins "so the rain washes the coil" has not experienced a Hail storm. Laid over fins on a condenser coil take for ever to comb out. A once or twice a year wash with a water hose will keep it clean. Now that central air has moved on to 410a a high pressure blend, You are forced to change the entire unit just because of hail damage.
By cooling the copper quickly, you are actually hardening the copper. Kind of like when sword makers quenched swords in water from red hot. Letting it cool slowly will make the copper softer. Fantastic videos. I'm binge watching all of them!
karizmatic5 Copper is non-ferrous, it will not harden when quenched.
Foghorn Leghorn copper does harden after being heated. and it also looses its designed pressure rating. New systems coming out have a super high head pressure. and if you heat the discharge line that is where you will have issues.
Marc, so how do you recommend sweating the discharge line to a compressor? From what I understand , if it's soft copper to begin with it's already been annealed. Does it reduce further?
The legend the myth Jim pettinato. Did he retired
Confused.....what happens to the copper filling during drilling of suction pipe are they on their way into the compressor ??
+Valee B I use to rebuild semi hermetics, what I found is any metal bits like braze BBs, solder BBs, aluminum bits all end up an the bottom of the oil crankcase and stay there.
Thanks Jim...really like your videos
Should have done the drilling out of the system and close enough to the end of the pipe to be able to clean out particles. Oh well
A friend asked me to check their walk in cooler that is not getting cool. The rooftop condensing unit puzzled me, as the line "leaving" the filter dryer was very COLD, yet the "inlet" side of the filter dryer is very warm. The low pressure (larger sized) line coming from the evaporator is warm. Sight glass shows no bubbles and condensing unit is cycling off and on. Down at the evaporator, the small pipe (hi side) is cool and has condensation forming on the tubing. Low side is about 60 degrees, and the output air temp is also about 60 degrees. 2 "professional" service techs have just added R12 (it's an old system) to the system, claiming it was "really low on refrigerant". Am I correct in assuming there is a problem with the filter/dryer, and it should be replaced? It seems like all the heat transfer is taking place after the filter and before the evaporator coil.
Or, should I mind my own business and let the pros pump more refrigerant into this system?
love the videos, very helpful and informative. just wondering why not install another roto lock on the new compressor? do they not make diagnosing bad compressor valves easier as you front seated the suction valve in this video?
Jim, did you stop filming or retire? I just found your channel a few months ago and love your content. Another great old school tech!
Please come back brother!
Hi jim you are a best technician i like your work.
Jim, when you cut off that service valve, it draws from the interior of the compressor, however, this test is limited to the extent of how much refrigerant do you actually have entrained in the oil. Until you get all the refrigerant boiled out of the oil, you really dont know , am I leaking back through the valves or rings, or is the refrigerant boiling out of the oil appearing to be a ring or valve leak. What I try doing is to put a torch on the sump to add a bit of heat to boil out any remain refrigerant and jump out the LP. You should be able to pull 16” of vacuum and hold for a minute anyways. If the sump stays warm and it won’t pull a vacuum, Thats when I condemn the compressor. I’ve poured oil into a #10 can and watched it boil for over an hour from entrained refrigerant.
hvac01453 there shouldn't be any refrigerant in the oil when the compressor just finished running. migration only happen when the unit is off for long time and it's cold outside. that's what crankcase heater for. the only thing I would've done different is I'd flow n2 when brazing. I didn't see it on the video.
Great video, Can you please tell me why you sand the inside and the outside of the female component that you are brazing?
When rimming the suction in this vertical position are you not concern about shavings falling in the line?
everyone has an opinions on how or what or what is right way to do. I though u followed the the practice pretty good. the copper shavings does bother me some. do u suppose the reed that is cracked may be some of the debriefing from it plugged filter? .
hello there,i need your consent small, i connected a 5hp panasonic ac condensing unit to a german evaporator \TEV\which is about 3ft wide in a 20ft container, am using it for iceblock making,everything use to work fine but now facing a lil problem with frequent drier filter blockage,am told to flush out the system because of the frequent blockage,i also found out that there is a leak on the pressure valve, is it advisable to disconnect the pressure valve and make the system direct,and do you think using a normal ac condensing unit of 5hp is right to run as freezer?
jim you are true refrig mechanic god bless you sir
Jim, do you have any idea if the Uponor Wirsbo swage tool for Pex-a plumbing can be used for soft copper or are the dies different?
Still wish you were on youtube.
Me too
Please everyone watch this video very carefully this man show you what not supposed do
if you know everything why are you watching
When drilling the copper tube, debris enters in the sistem. It is not a problem?
Jim, do you ever worry about getting copper shavings in the lines from drilling for the ports? Ive always used an awl to start the hole and then ream it out with a phillips screwdriver. Drilling would be much easier though.
Yeah, there's usually stainless steel screens on compressor inlets and expansion valve inlets, I know what you are saying, but really haven't had any problems though.Years back I would hack saw a small x then punch through with an awl, then braze and fill. I like the Bosch tork driver with drills now.
You like the Testo 550 gauges?
You do good work. I love watching your videos. It's nice to see somebody do quality work!
But what about all the metal shavings?
Well Jim. Are you finished making videos
did you cut the lines with a saw? they look saw cut?
Nice work Jim! What do you think of rotalock valved compressors? most of our commercial ones are here, makes changing them easy!
Roto locks are easy, they ocassionally leak, the old compressor had one on it, my Copeland distributor has gotten away from them mostly. It's OK, I can pump a system down from the liquid king valve if I have to, as long as the reeds hold, Plus we have pretty good reclaimers now. Brazing in a suction shraetor valve is easy.
Love your videos Jim! Very clear and informative!!
When ever you do use a wire brush to clean the inside of a pipe or fitting you turn it only clockwise. Never back and forth.
why did you pick your consent over the fieldpiece
very nice diagnostic jim !!!!
Nitrogen is optional, makes it cleaner but optional.
Optional.... but a lot less chance of stopping up the txv screen. If the TXV is partially stopped up you could end up running with high super heat. In the end you could have a toasted compressor. Why chance any of that?
how come you have all new tools
I’m not gonna say names but there’s a few guys on TH-cam that shouldn’t be posting videos but your not one of them. You actually know what the hell your doing.
You surely do not put a wire brush inside the copper tubing.
All copper residius going in to the system
6x6 or 8x8 rain tent with no sides at Walmart for 40 or 50 bucks. I have one and almost never work in the rain.
Should kill power to the evap so the liquid line solonoid closes to make sure it’s not ur king valve leaking by.
please replace that copper to the inlet of the drier lol they even changed the size of liquid line by looks of it
I have that set of Testo 550. great for setting superheat.
What ever happened to you Jim, no more vídeos
Sooo its best to use flux when soldering a filter drier?
You should keep making videos
Mennnnn.... i'm speechless. And all the copper filling when cutting the suction pipe??? Are they going in to the compressor???? And no nitrogen against oxidation??? Thanks for your good intentions but i'm sorry, very bad work.
I cut the steal at compressor .unswet after . Nitrogen would have been nice.
Thats cool it’s at ground level
Great video thanks for the upload I learned a lot.
Nice info Jim thanks
thanks for commenting
Nice video! And camera!
debris going down the suction line , brazing without nitrogen... just so many things wrong with this
I don't believe it useig a bril shavings will go into comp. I heat pipe pink hot n poke a hole with icepik no shavigs
Great video.
I will put my business card in all gas stations, good aides.
Hello Jim
Yeah they where both busted
Don't use nitrogen protection
hah.... it's the transphase line. it's fine .... lol
зачем стружку нагебашил в трубу
I don't know, maybe its a location thing. But I have never heard anyone use the term Drier filter, and all my parts catalogs call them "Filter Drier" can anyone else clarify this for me? And I have been working in the business since 1984.
Are you saying you wouldn't know what someone was talking about if they called it that?
+Martinez Mechanical Services I highly agree with your statement!
Marc Shoda Yes it's definitely called a filter drier, not a drier filter, and yes you would know what they are talking about but the point is you should call the component by its real name...
That's just the way he calls it I don't see anything wrong with that as long as you get it.
gostei da van bem equipada
good job ya going be back there again with a blocked drier in 40 minutes.
at 27.39 the blue hose is my nitrogen
:) no worries sorry mate. skipped through parts of video. im a first year refrigeration apprentice in aus.
You can hardly hear anything you’re saying
should have used flare drier-so can pump down and change easy
then why do they make sweat driers so they can roll in the back of your truck
Working in rain Ser.diconect open n live wires very unsafe dangers n. F on safty why it can't wait till ,2moro stupit
Sr what wrong with you . When you in refrigeration are going to weld you must used nitrogen not to contaminated the compressor 5psi of nitrogen running in too the lines guaranty good work.. this is really bad work.. also you expand the line is okay but please don't used the rimmer on pipe is ready installed guest were all debris are going to go. Right to the compressor that is a potentia broken the suction valve... the filter dry is very sensitive used NITROGEN NOT to restrict
rimer ok.. but nitrogen, no on has time for that bs..
Speak up
You so called techs kill me. You want to share all your knowledge which is great and diagnosing the drier being restricted by temp is fine but you must teach your learning viewers "what the approx normal td across the drier should be"! It's like teaching someone how to use gauges but not telling them what refrigerant they are measuring.
+Mackjames it should be common sense
+Jim Pettinato ok