I use to use the white hots but I have found they age quicker. White hots from the year before definitely slower and lacked punch. The 777 seem to hold up better even after 2-3 year storage.. These days when there are shortages this could be important information.
I shot both white shots and 777 both in pellets and powder and I been having same boxes and bottle for over 5years and i don't notice any difference in power are you using a crony to record your FPS if not it's all in your head
I recently acquired Win. Triple seven 209 primers ($16 at Cabalas I have searched high and low for a long time) and paired it with Triple Seven powder. They truly worked so much better than the Chedex 209’s. The deviation went from all over to closely replicating Blkhn 209. The crud ring and fouling with the Cheddite primers was severe. While using the Triple seven primers with triple seven the fouling was similar to Blkhrn. I was able to shoot all 10 rounds (Hornady sabots 250 gr sst) without swabbing the bore. I will not go back as my overall accuracy was improved as well.
I still shoot an old original Remington 700MLS 24 inch barrel. It has had a Canadian 209 conversion in it since 2004. 777 pellets (2 50 grainers = 100 grains) and a Winchester shotgun 209 is what I use with a Barnes expander 250 ( original non tipped). I will clean it quickly after shooting. But if I load it with a clean gun, I can leave it loaded for a LONG TIME without any corrosion issues. Our muzzleloader season started Saturday here in Georgia. Before my hunt, I simply pushed out the bullet and charge. The pellets still looked great from last years loading ( yea I know I shouldn’t wait a year to reload). They still looked fine but I scrapped them anyway. Ran a bore snake with light lube down the barrel twice. Reloaded with new pellets and the same bullet/sabot as last year. Then shot a very nice 8 pointer that evening at about 85 yards. 190 live weight. Confidence is everything. The other 2 propellants might give me the same results not sure. But I’m not changing anything until I see a need to. Great video. Thanks.
Blackhorn without a doubt the best. I fired 3 shots recently with 290 gr. Bullets and 2 777 pellets. Could barely get the 3rd shot seated. So much crud ahead of the plug.
Thanks. I'm just getting into muzzelloaders this year. so these vids are always helpful. I started with the 777 and white hots pellets and a wolf. I like the white hots because they do seem to clean easier. But they seem to also crush alot easier then the 777 pellets so 777 has that one. Both are gonna have their pros and cons. but neither have let me down so far. The biggest pro with pellets in general is it let's new people be able to to try out muzzelloaders without to much intimidation.
so, i was just gifted a remington 700MLS. it was a friend's, and he recently passed away. his wife gave me the gun for helping with some things. it came with a bag of stuff, lots of ammo, 3 boxes of powder pellets(two unopened), a tin of musket caps, a separate bolt action for 209 primers, all the cleaning gear, etc, etc. from what i can gather, he bought the gun and accessories and never did shoot it. he loved guns and was always buying them. there was a sheet with all the stuff that had everything listed and prices for it all, like it had been on consignment at a shop, likely. so i'm guessing he bought it and put it away and never did shoot it himself. gun was clean, beautiful rifle, also came with a leupold scope to match the gun. i took it out the other day to try it out and get it sighted in. the scope was off the gun, i mounted it back on. everything worked great. very fun to shoot. after i think 5 shots(cleaned the gun between shots), i had a misfire. i sat, careful to keep it pointed in a safe direction, and waited for awhile. after some time, i went ahead with opening it up. pulled it apart, the breech plug, dropped out the pellets, and pushed the sabot through and out. put it back together, reloaded with fresh pellets, etc, and it fired fine. shot another couple times, then it misfired again. this time, i put another cap in and tried it again, and it fired. now, the caps had fired on both misfires. so i assumed it was the powder. but, on the second one, i put another cap in and it then shot. so the cap had to be a dud, i'm thinking. then i reloaded again, for one final shot, and it misfired again. this time i went through 4 different caps, and they all went off, and it didn't shoot. so, bad powder? or dud caps? i took it apart again and went home. now, from what i can gather, i think he's had it for awhile, unused. so everything is from the owner he bought it from. the caps are CCI 0300, and i've read they haven't been made for years. so they are clearly old product. and, the powder pellets, are pyrodex 54/60, which also seem to be discontinued, i think. in that grain anyway. i looked at the bottom of the box, and it has a store sticker with the date 03-28-2002. so the store had them 19 years ago. i never did touch the open box, expecting they'd likely be bad. i opened one of the 2 unopened boxes. but damn, that's pretty old powder. guessing my best thing to do is buy all new and go from there. i had planned that from the start, but was antsy to go try the gun. i live in a small town that doesn't sell anything muzzleloader anywhere. i changed the bolt over to the 209 primer today. will buy some 209 primers and new powder pellets this weekend if i can, and try all over again. was i pretty lucky that i was able to even get any of the shots off?
So, there are a few things that could be going on here. The powder and percussion caps are very old so it may be worth buying some new powder and giving it another try. Powder can last a long time when stored in the right conditions, however, since you don't know how if it was stored properly by the previous owner, it would be a good idea to start fresh. I also think that you will have much more success with 209 primers. 209 primers are much hotter than the percussion caps that you are currently using. I would recommend sticking with a 209 magnum primer as that will ensure that you are getting the hottest ignition possible. I would also recommend purchasing a nipple pick which is a long and slender piece of wire that allows you to remove any obstructions from your breech plug. Hang fires are often caused by small pieces of carbon or powder residue that build up in the breech plug. I hope this helps!
If you are loading a muzzleloader after you have cleaned it, it is a good practice to snap a cap or two of whatever variant you use (209, musket, #11 ect) prior to loading. When you clean a muzzleloader, or just run dry patches through it before loading, you push debris or oils into the breach plug which may block the ignition source from reaching the powder.
I have tested these pellets along with with Rem 209, Win 209, Fed 209, CCI 209 primers, all were designed for muzzleloaders. I found that all of these were dirty, all fouled the barrel to some degree so really the idea that one is cleaner forget it. The white hots are and should be considered a wild card, They misfire regularly and good luck if they work for you. T7 always fired and worked well. Result from the testing we found that the 250 gr sabot load 50 cal. and 100 gr load.....@ 100 yards we could get 1 in groups.... remarkable, yes, for a pumpkin slinger We also tried the Magnum T7 pellets with the same 250 gr this was 120 gr load and it shot well and the group was more like the 1 1/2 in group the best answer is that if you take the time you can build a great shooting group if you that time to do it.
I shoot a CVA optima v2 LR with triple 7 pellets and a Winchester triple 7 primmer and when I sighted it in, took 10 shoot, 3 were magnum loads and I did run a patch through it after every shot and it shot amazing at 100 yards and even got a great group at 200 yards! Come cleaning I ran the wire brush through twice and then a wet patch and I used 4 of them and it was clean, finished with a dry patch and it was back to brand new, the break plug was pretty easy to, took my lil wire brush and cleaned it off, and blew out and clean the hole and it’s good as new! The dirtiest part is where the ignition happend with the powder pellets Becuase of the glue residue left over u have to make sure to get that all out, it’s no problem at all! I love it and for this year I will be sticking with my combo
@@bradferguson4943 the PowerBelts elr, 325 grain but I switched to 2 pellets of 777 Becuase I noticed that the bullet flew a bit sideways and my brother killed a deer and it was a perfect shot
Nice job and great video Darren. I'd loved to have seen the actual target results to see how tight the groups were. I've used all three of these pellets, along with a variety of loads, but have yet to fall in love with any of them. The White Hots are indeed cleaner, so you can shoot several shots without cleaning the bore. I've also upgraded the 209 primers to muzzleloader specific ones that shoot hotter!
can not get a answer, I own a buckstalker 50 cal and would like to know if it can use 777 magnums pellets I have a box already with 2 missing and I bet only one pellet was used per shot to plink, ok is this to much for the gun
Hi! The Buckstalker is Magnum rated, meaning that it can handle up to 150 grains (by volume) for a single charge. That means that you can use either one pellet (60gr) or two (120gr) without damaging your muzzleloader.
Thanks for this informative video on popular BP Sub-Pellets. I’ve never used them but appreciate their convenience and popularity. Being a veteran handloader, I would definitely move toward the IMR White Hot with its lower SDs and try to capitalize on the potential for accuracy.
Blackhorn 209, not in pellet form but lasts forever and most consistent. 777 pellets after 2 years throw them away because they'll fire but have lost all power.
I typically prefer white hots. The only primers I could find locally were 777 primers, so I matched them up with fire stars and bore drivers. Very happy with the load. Sighted in quickly and great group in my strikerfire. Your videos helped with both the powder and bullet reviews. As others said, it was fairly dirty and had the crud ring though.
@@brianhibbs9300 They can be, I went shooting this weekend and tried it again with the white hots (7 shots in 1 afternoon) and 3 of those gave me issues when using FFF in the frizen pan. It works, but after trying it a couple of times I'm going back to standard powder with my flintlock.
Appreciate all the work put into vids & all the info & encouragement available. I am curious with the "SD". Is it truly standard deviations you are giving on this vid or Extreme Spread. Please keep in mind I am not terribly experienced in muzzleloader world. I am fairly experienced in smokeless powder shooting, reloading & hunting. Forgive my ignorance if this is these are legit sd #s. They seem really high. But that may be the black powder world. Thank you again for all you are providing.
These are the SDs for the these particular loads. When compared to smokeless powder rifles, black powder rifles tend to have significantly higher SDs. You will see this with pelletized powder especially as there can be small variances in measurement from pellet to pellet.
I’m not being a smart a$$ but black powder and it’s variations do not build pressure. Ignition is all at once and there is no buildup of pressure., therefore length has no bearing on it. Another thing I’ve noticed is that each rifle is an individual. What works in mine may not work in yours even though they are the same rifle. In my years, 40+, of dealing with them, I have found loose powder to be the best. Not as convenient but best. Thank you for your work!!!!! Interesting and educational.
My name is cave man I was wondering why don't people shoot really fine powder out of there guns? I a bet new to black powder. I really love shooting the guns. Thank you and love the info on the video, would like to see one on luse powder
is there a pistol version of the white hots? I want a powder that doesn't rust the bore in case i forget to clean but because of the test we'll never know if it was the 777 or the firestar that caused the rusty barrel. or both
Awesome welcome to the community! We tested both charges in this video. I will include the time stamps below. 150 grains of White Hots - 3:53 100 grains of White Hots - 4:32
The standard deviations are a function of your specific test set up, the specific firearms, age of the propellant used, variations in projectile and primer, and variations in your test equipment. Trying to get meaningful statistics would require at very least more test rifles and a firing set of 30 shots for every perturbation. Ideally you would also have multiple sets of test measurement equipment... fundamentally, different barrel length means that a different amount of propellant will have a different measure v velocity/ deviation profile. Using pellets results in a very low resolution data set.
I'm a newby with pellets. So can I ask (specifically for the IMR Whitehots) what is the magnum and standard loads? 1 pellet, 2 pellets, 3 pellets? I am wondering what was what for standard and magnum? Thanks in advance.
Standard load is 100 grains or 2 pellets. 150 would be magnum and 3 pellets (if using 777 or white hots). Magnum 777 (red box) would be 120 grains for 2 pellets. They do not recommend using 3 pellets with the magnum 777. Firestar is 100 grains with 3 pellets (about 33 grains per pellet). My personal experience, the white hots burn slightly cleaner but the crud ring seems harder to clean from the barrel. I never had any issues with 777 or white hots not firing.
Barrel length will affect velocity. And different powders. However when changing bullet length.The twist of the rifling will determine accuracy. At a given velocity.
A magnum charge is the maximum amount of powder that is safe to use in a particular muzzleloader. This charge can vary depending on the muzzleloader. The muzzleloader that we were shooting in this video could use a magnum charge of 150 grains of standard black powder substitute measured by volume.
I honestly have never payed any attention to the direction of the pellets and I have always had good results. I would recommend reaching out to Hodgdon directly as they may be able to provide you with some additional information.
@@leecrumble3921 thanks for the reply, I contacted Hodgdon and asked them about which end of Triple 7 goes towards the primer. Hodgdon said it makes no difference at all for ignition both ends are the same. At one time the older Pyrodex pellets made a difference but not now they said. Hope that helps and good luck this season.
Joe mexicat. I clean all my muzzle loaders with boiling water. Wrap the barrel in a thick towel use a funnel and pour water down the barrel. It will clean all the fouling out with only a few ounces of water. I even boil my breach plugs. Lightly oil everything and re assemble . Fast easy and I save time from doing the patch thing that takes forever and only does a mediocre job at best. Happy shooting!
Have had nothing but let downs with the white hots ..three miss fires in a week on three different deer!!!!!! I unload and reload for every hunt with new powder and primer all three mis fires were on dry days …I’m going back to the 777 never should have switched
Hundreds of white hots down the barrel never a problem or misfire! I would be looking at how your pellets were stored and there age. tried them all also loose black horn 209 which sucked! I always go back to white hots love them.
@@barefootbob1269 I buy a new box every season and there in a dry box in my pack when I went to the range they shot great but during the season I had two shots 30 yards and 60 and it didn’t sound right at all and I missed I couldn’t even find an impact site in the snow and I was shooting down hill
@@berkshirewoodsandwater1926 Strange really don't have a clue on that have not had any real issue with them. Only problem was once in the wet water running down inside of barrel and getting around my powerbelt and wetting the pellets. Now in the rain or snow put a strip of painters tape over barrel.
A friend of mine forgot he pre loaded his cva optima and loaded it when we got to our hunting spot. I told him we better check it. And sure enough it had 2 pellets one bullet 2 more pellets and another bullet. my question is, what would have happened if he would have shot it with a double load like that?
Here's my question. I'm using white hots an after every shot I hav fouling If I swap to blackhorn 209 pellets will I still hav fouling im new to muzzleloaders so any information will help
@@clintonmosby2417 209 is a non-sulfur base product and will not retain moisture unlike sulfur based products! I can put 10 or more Rounds before schwabing 209 has a longer shelf life!! Remember 209 oil-Base products for schwabing and cleaning! Sulfur base products use water base cleaning products!! Look up (Gun Tests ) on 209 test and performance Against others!! 209 right now is hard to find thank goodness I'm stocked up for now!! Best of luck 👍 🦌🐻 The Vermonter from the Right side period!
@@clintonmosby2417 one more thing 209 is granular loose product not pellets!! I hope this all helps!! 209 is Awesome stuff if you can find it!! Good Luck 👍
I have not experienced that. IMR White Hots Pellets burn dirtier than Blackhorn 209 but we have always found them to be pretty clean as far as pellets go. What primers are you using?
@@MuzzleLoaderscom I am using the Winchester triple 7 primers. I have to run a wet and dry patch after every shot and sometimes it’s hard to get the jag back out of the muzzle, it does shoot accurately though so I guess I can’t complain too much
I hav the same issue currently shooting imr white hots with federal bore locks an the aerolite powerbuilt so far I like the federal bore lock but tomorrow I'm gonna shoot um both side by side. An im using cheddite 209 primer any information will be great im new to muzzleloader
You should have added shooters world black the hunter pellets Iam interested in seeing what they can do Iam mainly interested in how clean burning and consistant velocity's because of how dirty t7 is sometimes I gotta run upwards of 6 patches using both sides between each shot and then the full gun clean up when I get back home can take up to an hour to get my gun good and clean again i like the velocity and accuracy I get from t7 but it's just too dirty Iam getting sick of putting in triple the amount of time cleaning then I do shooting
Hodgdon says that 5 FireStar Pellets should be safe to use in any muzzleloader that would accept a 150 grain charge of standard powder. I will include a link to that statement below. hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/triple-seven-firestar-data-by-bullet-weight.pdf
The difference between barrels and ballistics is likely due to bullet to bore sealing characteristics, and 209 primer consistency. It would be interesting to see how 777 primers, and Hornady’s new bullet a/o a quality sabot would perform with the pellets.
Hi! The only pellets that will work in a cap and ball revolver are the 44/45 pellets - revolver pellets, 30 grains in size. That's max charge for a revolver. Here's a link to them, and they're absolutely fantastic: muzzle-loaders.com/products/hodgdon-pyrodex-pistol-pellets-black-powder-substitute-44-45-caliber-30-grain-100-count
BALONEY I HUNT IN REALLY COLD WEATHER THE TRIPLE 7 209 PRIMERS JUST AREN'T HOT ENOUGH FOR CONSISTENT IGNITION IN COLD WEATHER!!! HUNTING IN REAL CONDITIONS IS THE REAL TEST. I'LL STICK WITH REMINGTON OR CCI PRIMERS.
Unfortunately, I do not have any of that data as we were only testing the velocities durning this test. We will some accuracy testing in the near future.
My CVA optima loads way better with the triple 7 pellets after 2 shots. The White hots my 3rd shot I can’t even get the bullet all the way down hardly. Shooting the 290 bore drivers
I use to use the white hots but I have found they age quicker. White hots from the year before definitely slower and lacked punch. The 777 seem to hold up better even after 2-3 year storage.. These days when there are shortages this could be important information.
I shot both white shots and 777 both in pellets and powder and I been having same boxes and bottle for over 5years and i don't notice any difference in power are you using a crony to record your FPS if not it's all in your head
@@warrengreen3217 What do you get for velocity? It seems weird this test showed only 25fps more with 3 pellets vs 2 in the wolf.
How many firestar pellets did you use for a magnum charge?
If you forget to clean your muzzleloader, use Kroil. It is a penetrating oil, that cleans and protects rifling. I use it in all my firearms.
I recently acquired Win. Triple seven 209 primers ($16 at Cabalas I have searched high and low for a long time) and paired it with Triple Seven powder. They truly worked so much better than the Chedex 209’s. The deviation went from all over to closely replicating Blkhn 209. The crud ring and fouling with the Cheddite primers was severe. While using the Triple seven primers with triple seven the fouling was similar to Blkhrn. I was able to shoot all 10 rounds (Hornady sabots 250 gr sst) without swabbing the bore. I will not go back as my overall accuracy was improved as well.
I still shoot an old original Remington 700MLS 24 inch barrel. It has had a Canadian 209 conversion in it since 2004. 777 pellets (2 50 grainers = 100 grains) and a Winchester shotgun 209 is what I use with a Barnes expander 250 ( original non tipped). I will clean it quickly after shooting. But if I load it with a clean gun, I can leave it loaded for a LONG TIME without any corrosion issues. Our muzzleloader season started Saturday here in Georgia. Before my hunt, I simply pushed out the bullet and charge. The pellets still looked great from last years loading ( yea I know I shouldn’t wait a year to reload). They still looked fine but I scrapped them anyway. Ran a bore snake with light lube down the barrel twice. Reloaded with new pellets and the same bullet/sabot as last year. Then shot a very nice 8 pointer that evening at about 85 yards. 190 live weight. Confidence is everything. The other 2 propellants might give me the same results not sure. But I’m not changing anything until I see a need to. Great video. Thanks.
I have the 777 primers they do not improve the crud ring factor at all in my muzzle loaders.
Blackhorn without a doubt the best. I fired 3 shots recently with 290 gr. Bullets and 2 777 pellets. Could barely get the 3rd shot seated. So much crud ahead of the plug.
Thanks. I'm just getting into muzzelloaders this year. so these vids are always helpful.
I started with the 777 and white hots pellets and a wolf.
I like the white hots because they do seem to clean easier. But they seem to also crush alot easier then the 777 pellets so 777 has that one.
Both are gonna have their pros and cons. but neither have let me down so far.
The biggest pro with pellets in general is it let's new people be able to to try out muzzelloaders without to much intimidation.
"I don't know what to do with my hands!". Ricky Bobby
so, i was just gifted a remington 700MLS. it was a friend's, and he recently passed away. his wife gave me the gun for helping with some things. it came with a bag of stuff, lots of ammo, 3 boxes of powder pellets(two unopened), a tin of musket caps, a separate bolt action for 209 primers, all the cleaning gear, etc, etc.
from what i can gather, he bought the gun and accessories and never did shoot it. he loved guns and was always buying them. there was a sheet with all the stuff that had everything listed and prices for it all, like it had been on consignment at a shop, likely. so i'm guessing he bought it and put it away and never did shoot it himself.
gun was clean, beautiful rifle, also came with a leupold scope to match the gun.
i took it out the other day to try it out and get it sighted in. the scope was off the gun, i mounted it back on.
everything worked great. very fun to shoot. after i think 5 shots(cleaned the gun between shots), i had a misfire. i sat, careful to keep it pointed in a safe direction, and waited for awhile. after some time, i went ahead with opening it up. pulled it apart, the breech plug, dropped out the pellets, and pushed the sabot through and out. put it back together, reloaded with fresh pellets, etc, and it fired fine. shot another couple times, then it misfired again. this time, i put another cap in and tried it again, and it fired. now, the caps had fired on both misfires. so i assumed it was the powder. but, on the second one, i put another cap in and it then shot. so the cap had to be a dud, i'm thinking. then i reloaded again, for one final shot, and it misfired again. this time i went through 4 different caps, and they all went off, and it didn't shoot. so, bad powder? or dud caps? i took it apart again and went home.
now, from what i can gather, i think he's had it for awhile, unused. so everything is from the owner he bought it from. the caps are CCI 0300, and i've read they haven't been made for years. so they are clearly old product. and, the powder pellets, are pyrodex 54/60, which also seem to be discontinued, i think. in that grain anyway. i looked at the bottom of the box, and it has a store sticker with the date 03-28-2002. so the store had them 19 years ago. i never did touch the open box, expecting they'd likely be bad. i opened one of the 2 unopened boxes. but damn, that's pretty old powder.
guessing my best thing to do is buy all new and go from there. i had planned that from the start, but was antsy to go try the gun. i live in a small town that doesn't sell anything muzzleloader anywhere. i changed the bolt over to the 209 primer today. will buy some 209 primers and new powder pellets this weekend if i can, and try all over again.
was i pretty lucky that i was able to even get any of the shots off?
So, there are a few things that could be going on here. The powder and percussion caps are very old so it may be worth buying some new powder and giving it another try. Powder can last a long time when stored in the right conditions, however, since you don't know how if it was stored properly by the previous owner, it would be a good idea to start fresh.
I also think that you will have much more success with 209 primers. 209 primers are much hotter than the percussion caps that you are currently using. I would recommend sticking with a 209 magnum primer as that will ensure that you are getting the hottest ignition possible.
I would also recommend purchasing a nipple pick which is a long and slender piece of wire that allows you to remove any obstructions from your breech plug. Hang fires are often caused by small pieces of carbon or powder residue that build up in the breech plug. I hope this helps!
If you are loading a muzzleloader after you have cleaned it, it is a good practice to snap a cap or two of whatever variant you use (209, musket, #11 ect) prior to loading. When you clean a muzzleloader, or just run dry patches through it before loading, you push debris or oils into the breach plug which may block the ignition source from reaching the powder.
@@slimjimmy229 yes, good pointm
I have tested these pellets along with with Rem 209, Win 209, Fed 209, CCI 209 primers, all were designed for muzzleloaders. I found that all of these were dirty, all fouled the barrel to some degree so really the idea that one is cleaner forget it. The white hots are and should be considered a wild card, They misfire regularly and good luck if they work for you. T7 always fired and worked well.
Result from the testing we found that the 250 gr sabot load 50 cal. and 100 gr load.....@ 100 yards we could get 1 in groups.... remarkable, yes, for a pumpkin slinger
We also tried the Magnum T7 pellets with the same 250 gr this was 120 gr load and it shot well and the group was more like the 1 1/2 in group the best answer is that if you take the time you can build a great shooting group if you that time to do it.
I shoot a CVA optima v2 LR with triple 7 pellets and a Winchester triple 7 primmer and when I sighted it in, took 10 shoot, 3 were magnum loads and I did run a patch through it after every shot and it shot amazing at 100 yards and even got a great group at 200 yards! Come cleaning I ran the wire brush through twice and then a wet patch and I used 4 of them and it was clean, finished with a dry patch and it was back to brand new, the break plug was pretty easy to, took my lil wire brush and cleaned it off, and blew out and clean the hole and it’s good as new! The dirtiest part is where the ignition happend with the powder pellets Becuase of the glue residue left over u have to make sure to get that all out, it’s no problem at all! I love it and for this year I will be sticking with my combo
Hi Thomas. I'm picking up my new Optima V2 LR tomorrow. Which bullet did you have that worked well for you? Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@bradferguson4943 the PowerBelts elr, 325 grain but I switched to 2 pellets of 777 Becuase I noticed that the bullet flew a bit sideways and my brother killed a deer and it was a perfect shot
@@thomaslenhart832 thanks, man! Good luck out there!
Nice job and great video Darren. I'd loved to have seen the actual target results to see how tight the groups were. I've used all three of these pellets, along with a variety of loads, but have yet to fall in love with any of them. The White Hots are indeed cleaner, so you can shoot several shots without cleaning the bore. I've also upgraded the 209 primers to muzzleloader specific ones that shoot hotter!
Just wondering what muzzleloader primers did you switch to ?
@@1Whitetail I used Winchester 209 marked ideal for muzzleloaders. But I’ll be testing both Remington and
Pyrodex designed for inlines!
@@boomerrangerron thanks for the reply, I've been using CCI but getting extremely low. I'll check into those, thanks. Carl
Please do a video on using the pellets in bad weather conditions.
Great idea! I will put it on the video spread sheet!
Good test. I am just getting into muzzle loaders so every bit of information helps
Great video Darren! Love these technical breakdowns.
The white hots are my favorite for my Traditions G4 UL. My Buck Stalker likes firestar and white hots or T7 loose powder ff and fff.
I use American Pioneer 50 grain pellets and standard 209 primers.
Great video! I've been looking for a video like this one.
Well done. Great info. Big help. Big thanks.
can not get a answer, I own a buckstalker 50 cal and would like to know if it can use 777 magnums pellets I have a box already with 2 missing and I bet only one pellet was used per shot to plink, ok is this to much for the gun
Hi! The Buckstalker is Magnum rated, meaning that it can handle up to 150 grains (by volume) for a single charge. That means that you can use either one pellet (60gr) or two (120gr) without damaging your muzzleloader.
Thanks for this informative video on popular BP Sub-Pellets. I’ve never used them but appreciate their convenience and popularity. Being a veteran handloader, I would definitely move toward the IMR White Hot with its lower SDs and try to capitalize on the potential for accuracy.
Blackhorn 209, not in pellet form but lasts forever and most consistent. 777 pellets after 2 years throw them away because they'll fire but have lost all power.
Great video I was wondering how the firestar pellets performed curious on the grain bullet you used thank you
I typically prefer white hots. The only primers I could find locally were 777 primers, so I matched them up with fire stars and bore drivers. Very happy with the load. Sighted in quickly and great group in my strikerfire. Your videos helped with both the powder and bullet reviews. As others said, it was fairly dirty and had the crud ring though.
White hots I think are the best, easiest to clean when using my Hawken.
Had heard pellets don't work well with sidelocks. No problems for you?
@@brianhibbs9300 They can be, I went shooting this weekend and tried it again with the white hots (7 shots in 1 afternoon) and 3 of those gave me issues when using FFF in the frizen pan. It works, but after trying it a couple of times I'm going back to standard powder with my flintlock.
Appreciate all the work put into vids & all the info & encouragement available. I am curious with the "SD". Is it truly standard deviations you are giving on this vid or Extreme Spread.
Please keep in mind I am not terribly experienced in muzzleloader world. I am fairly experienced in smokeless powder shooting, reloading & hunting. Forgive my ignorance if this is these are legit sd #s. They seem really high. But that may be the black powder world. Thank you again for all you are providing.
These are the SDs for the these particular loads. When compared to smokeless powder rifles, black powder rifles tend to have significantly higher SDs. You will see this with pelletized powder especially as there can be small variances in measurement from pellet to pellet.
I’m not being a smart a$$ but black powder and it’s variations do not build pressure. Ignition is all at once and there is no buildup of pressure., therefore length has no bearing on it. Another thing I’ve noticed is that each rifle is an individual. What works in mine may not work in yours even though they are the same rifle. In my years, 40+, of dealing with them, I have found loose powder to be the best. Not as convenient but best. Thank you for your work!!!!! Interesting and educational.
If I use triple 777 100 grain pellets will that work with hornady bore driver ftx at a hundred yards
Thank very much for the video. Good to know how those fire star perform
,lol before I thought of buying them
what is your standard and magnum load ?
Standard is considered 100 gr powder and Magnum is considered 150 gr. powder
So just to clarify with the firestar pellets 4 pellets was your non magnum charge and 5 pellets was your magnum charge correct?
My name is cave man I was wondering why don't people shoot really fine powder out of there guns? I a bet new to black powder. I really love shooting the guns. Thank you and love the info on the video, would like to see one on luse powder
is there a pistol version of the white hots? I want a powder that doesn't rust the bore in case i forget to clean
but because of the test we'll never know if it was the 777 or the firestar that caused the rusty barrel. or both
I would have liked to see the test
Great job man, the 777 primer doesn't help with the cleanliness of the gun,its the same as cci.
New to muzzleloading. Did you use 100 or 150 grains of powder for the white hots?
Awesome welcome to the community! We tested both charges in this video. I will include the time stamps below.
150 grains of White Hots - 3:53
100 grains of White Hots - 4:32
The standard deviations are a function of your specific test set up, the specific firearms, age of the propellant used, variations in projectile and primer, and variations in your test equipment. Trying to get meaningful statistics would require at very least more test rifles and a firing set of 30 shots for every perturbation. Ideally you would also have multiple sets of test measurement equipment... fundamentally, different barrel length means that a different amount of propellant will have a different measure v velocity/ deviation profile. Using pellets results in a very low resolution data set.
I'm a newby with pellets. So can I ask (specifically for the IMR Whitehots) what is the magnum and standard loads? 1 pellet, 2 pellets, 3 pellets? I am wondering what was what for standard and magnum? Thanks in advance.
Standard load is 100 grains or 2 pellets. 150 would be magnum and 3 pellets (if using 777 or white hots). Magnum 777 (red box) would be 120 grains for 2 pellets. They do not recommend using 3 pellets with the magnum 777. Firestar is 100 grains with 3 pellets (about 33 grains per pellet). My personal experience, the white hots burn slightly cleaner but the crud ring seems harder to clean from the barrel. I never had any issues with 777 or white hots not firing.
Barrel length will affect velocity. And different powders. However when changing bullet length.The twist of the rifling will determine accuracy. At a given velocity.
I've had the t7 primers fail to ignite the white hots. Any other primers I have no issues with ignition.
How many years do pellets last before they should be disposed?
That depends on the storing conditions. If they are stored in a dry place that is out of the sun then they should last for several years.
I'm new to muzzeloading... What is a "magnum charge"?
A magnum charge is the maximum amount of powder that is safe to use in a particular muzzleloader. This charge can vary depending on the muzzleloader. The muzzleloader that we were shooting in this video could use a magnum charge of 150 grains of standard black powder substitute measured by volume.
Using 777 pellets does it matter which end is up, light or darker side up ? I was told it does.
I honestly have never payed any attention to the direction of the pellets and I have always had good results. I would recommend reaching out to Hodgdon directly as they may be able to provide you with some additional information.
@@MuzzleLoaderscom thanks for your reply, I didn't know. I'm like you I just dropped them in and it when boom. Thanks again.
@@leecrumble3921 thanks for the reply, I contacted Hodgdon and asked them about which end of Triple 7 goes towards the primer. Hodgdon said it makes no difference at all for ignition both ends are the same. At one time the older Pyrodex pellets made a difference but not now they said. Hope that helps and good luck this season.
How long should I take cleaning my CVA Accura after a day on the range? I currently take 4 hours to make sure it's very clean and ready for storage
The time that it takes will vary. We always recommend cleaning with a brush, solvent, and patches until your patches come out clean.
Joe mexicat. I clean all my muzzle loaders with boiling water. Wrap the barrel in a thick towel use a funnel and pour water down the barrel. It will clean all the fouling out with only a few ounces of water. I even boil my breach plugs. Lightly oil everything and re assemble . Fast easy and I save time from doing the patch thing that takes forever and only does a mediocre job at best. Happy shooting!
Have had nothing but let downs with the white hots ..three miss fires in a week on three different deer!!!!!! I unload and reload for every hunt with new powder and primer all three mis fires were on dry days …I’m going back to the 777 never should have switched
Hundreds of white hots down the barrel never a problem or misfire! I would be looking at how your pellets were stored and there age. tried them all also loose black horn 209 which sucked! I always go back to white hots love them.
@@barefootbob1269 I buy a new box every season and there in a dry box in my pack when I went to the range they shot great but during the season I had two shots 30 yards and 60 and it didn’t sound right at all and I missed I couldn’t even find an impact site in the snow and I was shooting down hill
@@berkshirewoodsandwater1926 Strange really don't have a clue on that have not had any real issue with them. Only problem was once in the wet water running down inside of barrel and getting around my powerbelt and wetting the pellets. Now in the rain or snow put a strip of painters tape over barrel.
I use white hots in my CVA because the maker recommends them. No other reason.
A friend of mine forgot he pre loaded his cva optima and loaded it when we got to our hunting spot. I told him we better check it. And sure enough it had 2 pellets one bullet 2 more pellets and another bullet. my question is, what would have happened if he would have shot it with a double load like that?
Gun would have exploded. God cares more about us then we do.
It would've exploded because it becomes a plugged barrel
Great work and Test I would like to see the test done with Black Horn 209 power!!
Good Luck too all in the Great outdoors this fall 🐻 🦌
The Vermonter
Thanks for the suggestion! We plan to do some tests with Blackhorn 209 soon!
Here's my question. I'm using white hots an after every shot I hav fouling If I swap to blackhorn 209 pellets will I still hav fouling im new to muzzleloaders so any information will help
@@clintonmosby2417 209 is a non-sulfur base product and will not retain moisture unlike sulfur based products! I can put 10 or more Rounds before schwabing
209 has a longer shelf life!!
Remember 209 oil-Base products for schwabing and cleaning!
Sulfur base products use water base cleaning products!!
Look up (Gun Tests ) on 209 test and performance Against others!!
209 right now is hard to find thank goodness I'm stocked up for now!! Best of luck 👍 🦌🐻
The Vermonter from the Right side period!
@@clintonmosby2417 one more thing 209 is granular loose product not pellets!!
I hope this all helps!!
209 is Awesome stuff if you can find it!! Good Luck 👍
@@lambertsaldi1550 so it won't cause any fouling I can find 209 but it's expensive so for time being ill just keep the barrel clean after every shot
I tried the IMR Whitehots and they shoot really dirty out of my CVA Optima V2, has anybody else experienced this?
I have not experienced that. IMR White Hots Pellets burn dirtier than Blackhorn 209 but we have always found them to be pretty clean as far as pellets go. What primers are you using?
@@MuzzleLoaderscom I am using the Winchester triple 7 primers. I have to run a wet and dry patch after every shot and sometimes it’s hard to get the jag back out of the muzzle, it does shoot accurately though so I guess I can’t complain too much
I hav the same issue currently shooting imr white hots with federal bore locks an the aerolite powerbuilt so far I like the federal bore lock but tomorrow I'm gonna shoot um both side by side. An im using cheddite 209 primer any information will be great im new to muzzleloader
What type/grain projectile was used for the test ?
I think he said 250 grain THOR Lightning
Yes, it was the 250 grain Thor Lightning.
You should have added shooters world black the hunter pellets Iam interested in seeing what they can do Iam mainly interested in how clean burning and consistant velocity's because of how dirty t7 is sometimes I gotta run upwards of 6 patches using both sides between each shot and then the full gun clean up when I get back home can take up to an hour to get my gun good and clean again i like the velocity and accuracy I get from t7 but it's just too dirty Iam getting sick of putting in triple the amount of time cleaning then I do shooting
excellent information! Thanks1
What was the magnum load for the fire star since they are 33 grain pellets? 3 or 4?
4 or 5 pellets for magnum charge
@@stephengagnon5719 5 pellets would be over what most barrels are supposed to shoot
Hodgdon says that 5 FireStar Pellets should be safe to use in any muzzleloader that would accept a 150 grain charge of standard powder. I will include a link to that statement below. hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/triple-seven-firestar-data-by-bullet-weight.pdf
These days you buy what you can find.
I use firestar pellets the directions say three pellets equals 100 grains and not to exceed 100 grains
The difference between barrels and ballistics is likely due to bullet to bore sealing characteristics, and 209 primer consistency. It would be interesting to see how 777 primers, and Hornady’s new bullet a/o a quality sabot would perform with the pellets.
Triple seven primers dirty up my beech plug terrible , seem to be to long for my CVA optima
Will they work with a 44 cap n ball revolver?
Hi! The only pellets that will work in a cap and ball revolver are the 44/45 pellets - revolver pellets, 30 grains in size. That's max charge for a revolver.
Here's a link to them, and they're absolutely fantastic:
muzzle-loaders.com/products/hodgdon-pyrodex-pistol-pellets-black-powder-substitute-44-45-caliber-30-grain-100-count
Very interesting to see, thanks for sharing. Please don't be offended if I say I really don't want one...
How many grains are u useing ,how many pellets ,all this doesn't mean shit how many pellets
👍
2400 fps!? That's 308 win territory. That's pretty cool.
BALONEY I HUNT IN REALLY COLD WEATHER THE TRIPLE 7 209 PRIMERS JUST AREN'T HOT ENOUGH FOR CONSISTENT IGNITION IN COLD WEATHER!!! HUNTING IN REAL CONDITIONS IS THE REAL TEST. I'LL STICK WITH REMINGTON OR CCI PRIMERS.
How did accuracy compare?
Unfortunately, I do not have any of that data as we were only testing the velocities durning this test. We will some accuracy testing in the near future.
My CVA optima loads way better with the triple 7 pellets after 2 shots. The White hots my 3rd shot I can’t even get the bullet all the way down hardly. Shooting the 290 bore drivers
T7 pellets with t7 primers form a horrible crud ring In my wolf
when is a muzzleloader not a muzzleloader.......
When you remove the breech plug?
What was the standard load for the FireStar? 3 or 4 pellets?
We used 3 FireStar pellets for the standard load.