We Recycled a Disc 10 Times to See What Happened
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2024
- In honor of Earth Day, we tested how many times we could recycle a disc to see if it affected the flight and durability!
In our opinion, the results speak for themselves 🤯
Happy Earth Day! 🌎🥏
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Happy Earth Day everyone! 🌍🥏
My theory upon why they are changing color is this, they aren't changing to yellow, they're changing to a very light shade of brown due to the fact that they had to go through the heating process so much the plastic particles are burning, I have a hypothesis to add to this, if the process was continued put the plastic would then become an extremely dark brown or black
You could let one of each gen sit in direct sun for a certain amount of time to see if UV degradation happens more quickly.
Good idea. I work in the window industry and it’s amazing how much impact UV has on materials - results I wouldn’t have expected.
UV degradation is is a nightmare in UV laser systems... UV is nasty.
This right here is what I came to comment... uv exposure
If there are chemical UV stabilizers used they might degrade more with each heat history. Natural TPU tends to degrade on the suface with UV exposure, but the interior is less affected.
lots of reasons it yellows, but in order of impact:
1. Thermal degradation of the TPU due to repeated heat exposure during the injection molding cycles. TPUs are sensitive to overheating, which can cause the polymer chains to break down and the material to yellow
2. Oxidation of the TPU, especially aromatic TPUs, when exposed to high temperatures in the presence of oxygen. This causes irreversible yellowing of the material
3. Migration of additives like slip agents or UV stabilizers to the surface of the TPU parts over time after molding, which can cause a yellowish appearance
4. Contamination of the regrind TPU with other materials or degraded TPU from previous molding cycles. Continuously recycling regrind can lead to yellowing and reduction in material properties
5. Yellowing is an inherent characteristic of TPUs, especially aromatic types, due to the chemistry of the raw materials. MDI used in TPUs will yellow when exposed to UV light over time
Upvote this man. I was going to guess it was due to the heat! Very informative comment!
@@novapunkx Absolutely. I called the UV and oxidation but my man gave me a clinic. Thumbs up.
this guy plastics
Big polymer science guy, love it
Ah, reminiscent of a well-used Super Nintendo!
Guys - they molded over 500 discs for this video. This is amazing.
That is a great point!
Wdym
@@angelachi3534 they used the injection machine to create a disc more than 500 times. Sure, they kept recycling discs, so there's not over 500 discs as an end result - but essentially they made over 500 discs to make this video.
Made 100 discs - keep 10
made 90 more discs, kept 10. so now they've made 190 discs. And so on.
100 + 90 + 80 + 70 + 60 + 50 + 40 + 30 + 15? + 5? = 540 discs.
@@michaelwhitlock6301 k
Full circle. Sell them. On condition they all come back in a year. Then go again. Make a 5 year study.
This! It didn't feel right when he put them straight from the mold into the grinder. Have a batch that just sits there untouched for a year, too. Really cool experiment. Can't wait to get some Trash Panda discs!
@@derletrajust got the premium starter set in the mail and they feel very nice, only disc I’m scared of breaking is the ozone cuz the plastic reminds me of dx just a lot more flexible but we’ll see how it is after a season or two in the bag.
Gotta have a flight test AFTER the durability test! The Trilogy recycled line beats in WAY faster than their regular plastic ones!
Yes. This is similar with r2 by mvp as well imo
And R2 and Biogold is a mix of the companies amassed regrind, MVP makes them all black, probably by addative black NON regrind, and Biogold gets some opaque but clear color so they also got a addative for the mix. If I remember correctly they aren't even pure regrind but a big part of them and then the mix gets the same every time. I am itching to get my hands on some Biogold Ballista Pros and normal Ballistas for the future.
I-blend is also a regrind? But instead of being softer they start out stiff and more OS but beats in a bit faster... Very interesting to delve into by both testing and finding tidbits of answers for years to come!!! :)
So did Echo Star unlike regular star but nowhere as fast as Pro, maybe some more modern Pro from 2010's was really good and almost Star in some runs but....
Of course, can't believe they don't do a comp after the abuse
Yellowing is due to thermal oxidation. Very common for polymers to yellow\brown when heated in the presence of oxygen/air. Often color is one of the most sensitive properties, so it’s possible for little else about the material to be noticeably different.
If you had access to a polymer analytical lab I’d say you could run tensile tests to see if the mechanical properties are any different (use a large sample size to try and get some statistical significance), run GPC to see if the molecular weight changed, run FTIR to see if there are any noticeable chemical changes, run DSC to see if the melt/crystallization/Tg behaviors changed at all, etc.
If there is a tech university nearby, you could pitch the idea to the students or professors for a research project or capstone, especially if they have the equipment to test material properties of polymers. A lot of colleges seem to have a greater and greater focus on recycling and sustainability every year
I want more durability content ASAP
And edit the sound of each disc hitting the wall into a song
If anything this is the best possible outcome. To me it just seems this is good for the sustainability of the sport.
Would love to see a 1 and a 10 left in a "bottom of a pond" water scenario, come back every month and see how/if they change flight, durability, etc.!
I would guess that the color is due to the plastic picking up environmental particulates, like dust, oil and tiny bits of rust from the metal inside of the machine. All steel oxidizes, just more slowly with lubricant and wear, so that may actually be the largest factor in the yellow. This was a great experiment. Thanks for sharing.
So dope,
Would like to see long term if they season/beat in faster or slower.
LOVE the hoodies! 🤘
Very fascinating that they flew the same. It almost looked like #10 was more stable, but it also looked like you might've hyzered it just a tad more. Really cool regardless! It looks like you guys are getting a lot of experience with injection molding recycled plastics, which is really cool!
a great disc *and* great science content? what could be a better Earth Day gift to us all? thanks Jesse!
Makin' discs and bustin' myths. Love that you guys are stretching the boundaries of plastic recycling.
Love what y’all are doing, little by little, a little becomes a lot!
Looks like they were maybe getting a bit more stable with more regrind
This is the fist video found of this channel and I’m subbed now, I love these guys
While an interesting experiment, it fails in the same way I’ve seen other experiments people have done on how many time you can recycle plastic, in that it is not a realistic scenario. If you want to say that you’ve figured out how many times you can regrind a disc and reuse the plastic without it ever leaving the facility then that’s a completely valid assessment, and useful for manufacturing, but it completely ignores the years of wear and degradation discs will receive when they are actually used which will affect how many times a disc could be recycled.
I agree, good demo but it lacks important variables. Plastic that is recycled more often that not blends colors. The recycled products also carry with them environmental contaminants into the regrind process. It would be interesting to see how these stand up over time. Find some locals willing to bag them and return them after like 6 months of regular use.
Recycling unused discs is one thing. How suitable for recycling are they once they've been exposed to a disc's life time od UV-light?
Yes this is a best case scenario. However it shows that discs that are flawed, and rejected can get reground into a new disc can be perfectly acceptable for them to sell. A used disc would have to be scrubbed and cleaned to remove dirt and other contaminants that could lead to erroneous results.
Jesse! You will have to try this again when you have a distance driver mold. Nobody talks about putters flying differently. They're pretty consistent. But distance drivers can have a wide range of stabilities. Im sure youve seen Doth Savek's video about the Destroyer. The much thicker rim of distance drivers cool and shrink differently and you get different flights. Putters have thinner rims so the varried shrink doesn't affect the flight as much.
my theory of the yellowing might be from the re-grind machine and some of the oils/grease used inside of the machine
I can only imagine the time and resources needed to pull this off. Thanks for sharing. Super interesting.
Fantastic hypothesis testing! Really enjoyed the processing. Keep it up!
Best regards,
Henric in Sweden
Earth Day Bingo was awesome! Thanks for the great event. Awesome video bud. Keep up the good work I love the inner core and soon will be grabbing a dune.
Man if I could go back in time to when I worked in plastic injection('06-'08) and convince them to make discs... but I didn't even know the sport existed back then. Things I daydream about.
just ordered my first trash panda inner core with the earth day promo you guys did and I cant wait to try it out!!!
Very interesting indeed lol. Love these videos. So did you cool and dry each gen before regrind? Also, you should do another field test of each gen after the durability test just to double check their flights.
The scientific process in this video is great and honestly eye opening, seeing how TPU reacts (or doesn't) to multiple heating and moulding cycles.
I would assume the yellowing would come from heat, just guessing though. love the ice inner cores. Keep up the great work!
Que Rico! With that "Up against the Wall"....Say on scientist... that Gen 4 drama tho
Hey! Difference in flight characteristics would be more noticeable in higher speed discs. So, make a 12 speed for this test, and also for my bag. If you recycle it a ton of times, and the differences in flight should be more pronounced. Plus, it’s the inner core. That guy flies so true every time. Differences have got to be tiny.
I’m a scientist in the real world, and I love what you guys are doing. Such a great video. Happy Earth Day!
On another note I bet they are probably some of the most fun guys to be out on the course with 🤙
Big fan of the Dune. Haven't thrown the Ice inner core yet but can't wait to get a chance to. The multi recycling has me kind of beside myself
Be confused and push boundaries. I really enjoyed this. You should take a stack and send each 10 set to content creators that are in different climates to see how the plastic reacts. 🍻
did you dry the plastic after grinding the discs? It's possible some water was slowly being absorbed by the plastic?
Amazing video, very interesting stuff and super cool to see! The durability of the Inner Core is unrivaled. I've thrown a ton of different premium plastics from all sorts of brands (Innova, Discraft, Prodigy, Gateway, MVP/Axiom, Thought Space, Latitude 64) and literally nothing looks and flies as similar to new as my first run Inner Core. Keep up the great work!
Keep the content coming, the scient and not knowing of it all is fascinating
Great content. Great discs. Keep ‘em coming.
Can you blend the 10 times regrind with new clear plastic?
Also is the color coming from the grinder in anyway? Like oil from the grinding process?
Brilliant. Love these kinds of videos. Stay curious.
I don't know what the disc golf community did to deserve these amazing videos, but thank you! Also, I want a Gen 10 😂
Love your company and product! Obviously making a difference in the disc arena since the other manufacturers are starting to copy you.
Terrific video guys!
It's really not surprising you're seeing crazy durability from the TPU. It gets used a bunch in the world of robot combat (mostly at the small scale with 3D printed TPU parts) and has a reputation for parts taking insane impacts and still being perfectly usable.
I’m more curious about why the amount of plastic decreased. My guess is there are multiple reasons, but one might be that any air in the plastic was slowly removed? Are the later discs more dense? Thank you for weighing them, I was about to ask about that. I would love to see more videos like this! And thank you for all the time you put into this one! #forsience
Will you guys be restocking factory second dunes anytime soon? I was hoping to pick one up along with my inner core from the bingo card! I didn’t buy one while they were in stock because I want a blurple one but now both colors are sold out 😵💫
I wonder if the molding process would be affected if you had all TPU but a combo of all the batches since that’s a bit more realistic for what recycling would be like. My guess is nothing like the rest of your tests but it would be interesting to see how that might affect the color.
I don't know anything about disk golf but this was interesting to watch
That was interesting for sure. I'm left more confused after watching it though lol
I have a theory for the color change. So I know some stuff about suger glass making, and basically the longer you let the suger mixture boil the browner the glass is. So could the plastic be doing the same thing just on a slower pace?
Anyone who has worked on cars/anything with an engine has seen the effects of heat cycling. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that plastic zip ties get more brittle over time. But this is also over years of heat cycling in a hot engine bay, so take that for what it’s worth.
I also had an ultimate-style disc break upon catching the other bay because it lived in my car. RIP in peace discraft ultrastar
Curious if machine/model issues correlate to weight, example - so runs you felt were easier to run are heavier
I used to play that course all the time!!
Also my lil girl used to go to that school ha
Can I come work in the factory one day? I would love it lol I’ll be in Denver in July for 2 weeks. Free labor. Passionate disc golfer.
Old plastics seem to turn yellow as well, is it possible the heating/grinding is aging the plastic at a faster rate?
Had the same thought!
@@TrashPandaDiscGolf yeah that was my thought too. Same way resin yellows with age, it yellows faster if you overwork (overheat) the resin.
I made my putting putter the inner core as soon as you guys came out with the baseline plastic, and I plan to stick with it for life. But you guys should do some different combinations of colors. Make like a splatter kind of look if that’s possible.
You saw a decrease in the amount of material because every recycle cycle is decreasing the molecular weight of the polymer. I would guess you had to increase the "shot" as you got deeper into the cycles. Also may have had to decease processing temps. This is coming from my experience with PP and PE recycle.
Nr 10 really went “SIKE” when you weighed it 🤣
Would the disks being used/dirty change the amount of times they can be recycled?
It could have just been the editing, or coincidence, but the reaction of the disc off the wall seemed to change in the higher generations. Seemed like lower generations were flying back at you, while higher generations didn't have as much rebound. Maybe just that you threw one harder than the other, not sure. Just an observation.
Happy earth day. Appreciate what you are doing for the sport.
Maybe do another flight test after having thrown them at the wall 5 times?
I would be interested in seeing them perform in hot weather to see if difference in expansion or softness. Would 10 be less flexible in heat? 🤔
Super interesting. I melt alot of metals, and there the biggest enemy is air, however that is at very high temp. Like 200C or 392 F (or around there) is like a super interesting state for metal, and baking it there for like a few days, will release a lot of tension, and stabilize it, as it's so hot that the metal will release the hyrdrogen, but not hot enough to like melt. It'll release alot of tension as well, as the particles all grow slightly in size and tend to re-align to make a more stable structure as it's way softer and more active. When welding, we use gasses or flux to shield the metal from the air, so it'll absorb as little as possible, and to keep it from burning. Like maybe baking the discs could give some of the more attractive properties of the 10th run? Think I could get you some insight that could be relevant to your manufacturing for some b-stock ;) I would say try the bend test, that is always how they test the fusion of metals, and it would reveal if they get brittle. The yellow could just be finger fat from you guys handling the discs, or machine related like coolant or oil
Did you count each batch and did it only reduce by more than 10 on the last batch. I would imagine losing a bit each run.
It'd be interesting to see how each generation handles heat cycling - from summer like temps, to winter like temps. Repeatedly, to see if they fail at different points in further durability testing...
I suggest a flex test. Put 1 of each gen in a press and flex it until it breaks (if it does). Then see if the 10x versions snap easier. Plastics get brittle as they get older, but would like to see if the reheat cycle does the same.
Good tunes at the end
Seemed like the glide decreased a bit? But maybe there was a change in wind?
Do you know how many discs were made in each generation? I would be curious to see the loss of material through the process, something I expected, but wasn't provided an update as it was going. Also we're the injection point excess from the ones that you kept added to the next generation?
i think the only thing that might make the later generations wear more would be like actually playing with them like in winter conditions, just because of the repeated heat cycles of the manufacturing process... but this just goes to show more people should be throwing recycled plastic.
what about mixing 1, 5, and 10? if they dont change whats the limit ?
I’m a process operator in a polypropylene unit, and yellow pellets for us could mean a handful of different things since we are going from a powder to a plastic pellet. In yalls process I think it can only be the fact that your screws are working harder each time causing higher melt temps and pressure. Which would cause more of a burnt color possibly. Also in our process, yellow or grey pellet color would be an indication of low additives. It could be that the additives in the polymer y’all use are degrading each time. Could be both theories honestly. Much love.
So sick seeing you film this in a factory. I remember the ol' hand press in the garage days. Happy to see the success!
You should do post durability flight tests. I.e. do discs season faster based on gen. Also as far as the weight trend, I this you are breaking down trace amounts of plasticizers/process aids in the tpu blend with each run. As the runs go on, you have less material so the the distribution of additives might night be as uniform.
Could the color change just be from melting the plastic over and over and over again?
The damage to the disc looked the same, but did the flight change. Also, is there any way you can do a hardness test of the plastic.
The color change is probably due to a couple of things. Heating up the plastic multiple times may change the properties of the plastic slightly, altering it's color, but I think more of the color change would be the introduction of foreign material. The recycling process is pretty clean, but every time you grind a disc up, you will get a little dirt, grime, grease, etc in it. It's such a small amount that you wouldn't notice it the first time, but the second time, you're grinding discs that already have some in it, and adding more. By the 10th batch, you have 10 times the dirt and grime in the plastic.
I think for that reason, the durability is probably going down each iteration, it just might not be a measurable amount each time. Do it 100 times and you may notice something.
Yellowing = thermal oxidation and sulfurization. The polymer chains are breaking down. Normally that's mostly a surface thing but since these are regrinded and reheated through and through this is likely going to effect the plastic's durability. However I suspect that the difference won't be super noticeable right away, but if you were to stress test these over a long period of time you'd probably see that the disc that were recycled the most number of times won't last as long.
I assume the color change is because it's being cooked & recooked & recooked
Interesting! Gen. 10 looks like my buddy's 20 year old Champion Rhynos that live in his backyard. Completely sunbleached and still durable as all hell.
Curious to me why the yield diminished. I think that's a compelling enough to make a video about. How much recycled plastic is actually usable? (or will yield a full disc) It doesn't look like 1:1
Love the channel and the journey, but how much electricity was used during this experiment (aka burning fossil fuels)? Unless you're using solar to run it.
Any chance I could buy one of the later generations for cheaper than a new disc 👀👀👀
ooh! do 100 generations
so this is where microplastics come from...
See when a dune and an inner core love each other very much…..
@@CalebKnox Legit Lol'ed. Well done.
Color change might be from the heat of the injector heaters being heated over and over again???
Is it true that the mold itself will wear out? How can that happen?
Gotta team up with StuffMadeHere so you can use thier disc gold disc launcher to get an identical throw every time.
The durability test made me think of what if he compared the rebound of each generation? Like a bounce or deflection off of a surface?
the molding process break the polymer chains, the longer these chains are, the more transparent the plastic apear.
i wonder if fast thermal cycling caan effect the thermal property's of the plastic. gen 8 flowing easier could be due to letting the plastic and machene cool over night.
Figured, why not ask? But could I have one of those 10th runs and in return continue testing it and report back?
I think an interesting experiment would be giving them to me.
the color change might be due to molecular deterioration from re heating possibly
Did you count for the excess nubs that are stuck on the bottom of the discs?
I bet the material degradation is more from the shear in the screw than temperature cycles. I do think the yellowing is from temp though
Very cool video!
Please sell the samples from Gen2 to Gen8/9 as "Iced Tea." I'll buy one.
Maybe the viscosity of the melted plastic changes from one grind to the next? I would expect possible molecular level structure or alignment changes from repeated heating and cooling too. May be that thru each batch, the subtle molecular changes made the plastic more (sometimes) and less (other times) viscous. Wild guess from someone with no plastic manufacturing knowledge.
You should do randomised control trials with a group a people. You don't want them to know what run they're throwing. You could maybe measure distance and "deflection" (turn/fade) for each observation in each group (the number of times recycled) and then do an ANOVA to test whether there's a difference in group means (assuming that the data meet the assumptions of the statistical model). There are probably more sophisticated techniques but an ANOVA would be pretty easy. Would need to put some thought into the experimental design. You want it to be double blind, just like a medical trial, so that the participants AND the researchers have no direct knowledge of what's being thrown in a given trial.
Totally love what you're doing here, BTW. This is really a neat idea.
Also, for the weight measurements at the end, you'll need a LOT of observations. You'd probably want to do a power analysis to see what sample size is required to give you a decent chance of finding true differences (if they exist) in mass.
You should allow players who have your recycled discssend their unwanted recycled discs to you for a discount on your website. You get material to recycle, keeping it out of the landfill, and they buy more product.