Macedonia Naming Controversy Explained
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ม.ค. 2018
- In this video I attempted to explain the incredibly complex and surprisingly controversial topic of the naming dispute between Greece, and the country that wished to call itself the "Republic of Macedonia", claiming that the name implies territorial ambitions upon its region, also called Macedonia.
I look at the ancient kingdom of Macedonia, where the name comes from and briefly look at the history of the Balkans and how we arrived at this situation, which became an issue in 1991 when the country declared its independence. More than a quarter of a century later and this dispute remains unsolved.
MUSIC:
River Fire - Kevin MacLeod
incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
What's this? Two Balkan countries disagreeing with one another? I for one am shocked!
I LOLED at this comment ! :D
+Kagemusha08 ... yes because Britain, France an Germany agreed on all things and exchanged flowers all these years. If it wasn't for Americans, idiots, you would still kill each other.
Panos A You've got to admit though that Balkan countries having fights over petty bullshit is a thing that occurs pretty regularly.
+Google Spie On Someone Else True. But only for one major reason which is revealed by the fact that there is not a single such issue in which you won't find the usual suspects deeply involved if not at the root cause of the issue (Britain, Germany, Russia, France, Italy, Austria and post-WWII USA and recently China). Had it not been for these outside "great powers" the region would had settled down centuries ago (i.e. Greeks would had liberated the land by 1770 at latest, 3 major nations would exist : Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbians). Western European countries have long invested in the region's instability and that is what they do right now. Remember the Yugpslav wars? They were backing up Alija Izetbecovic who was one of the first modern Jihadists. This is no joke, no exagerration just seek and find what this man was writing back in the late 60s and 70s. When they back jihadists (like they do in Syria), when they construct fake nations and back them against the sovereign nations of the region, what do you expect? Stability? What is the economy of Germany? 3-4 trillion euros? With 500 billion (100 billion only to bribe local politicians) you can easily make Bavaria break off with a big bang and a couple of million of dead. You can do it even more easily if you pay Czechs to pretend being the true Bavarians!
Kagemusha08 exactly they stolen Greek name and history...
It's hilarious to me as Bulgarian when I hear FYROM-ians claim ancient Greek history and pedigree while at the same time speaking a Bulgarian dialect and using the Cyrillic alphabet. They keep giving the Greeks high blood pressure.
You literally can't parody this shit - it's beyond ridiculous.
Exactly, it would be like Moldova claiming to be the rightful heir to the Bulgarian Empire because a tiny sliver of Moldova used to be a part of it. It's the most ridiculous nonsense.
flioink
Actually language is not a good indication of ancestry. The English may speak a Germanic language but ethically they are actually Celts. The France language is deprived from Latin and the country from the Franks but they are just direct descendents of the Gauls Ceaser conquered. It's actually a common practice for the conquerors who are naturally a minority to attempt to culturally assimilated the natives so that they don't face rebellion.
But in this case Emp United the Greek macedonias preserved the greek language which has direct ties to the ancient greek language and were not assimilated by the numerous historical conquerors in the region. Hence the greek macedonians have a way stronger case of claiming direct assosiation with the ancient Greek macedonian history given also that there is a direct geographical link of the ancient macedonian kingdom and modern Greek macedonia.
Константин Вениер
That much is true yet to simply lump the people of Bulgaria is a bit of a insult as despite the assimilation they at least retain the ideauty of them still being Macedonians even if they aren't culturally that.
The naming claim really comes down to how one can detail what constitutes a descendent and the context they are using for the claim.
Genetically they are descendents of Macedonian Greeks, culturally they are almost completely Slavic and either way you well offend either side as to claim they are enrages the Greeks or if not you offend them.
Emp United I agree with your logic but I strongly disagree with the claim that Macedonians are genetically linked to ancient Greek macedonians. As I have done extensive research in this area, the iGENEA genetics results (if this is the results you used for your argument) constantly used by the macedonian side of the dispute has been deemed highly inacurate and questionable to the point that they removed the statistics from their site a couple of years ago. There have been several other genetic tests though that show direct link of the macedonians with the other slavic ethnicities such as the Bulgarian, Serbian, Bosnian, Ukranian Polish etc. Of course we are dealing with the Balkans where throughout the centuries especially during the ottoman rule there has been a significant mix of people, cultures and genetics so nothing is absolute. Claiming that modern macedonians are genetically descendant of macedonian Greeks is definetly wrong. The ancient macedonians were of doric origins which today has been proven to be a people of indo-european descent. This indo-european doric genetic can be found in a majority of Greek people especially in northern Greece. Last the claims of the purity of this so called European race is bs.. indo-europeans are proven by genetics to originate from the east and not from the north as many believe.
legends say that saying "Macedonia is a country" 3 times in front of a mirror could make an angry Greek appear
ahahahaha
Or angry truth seeker!
Greece has no problem with Macedonia being a country. If Alexander the Great was not the King of Macedonia, which country's king he was? The absurdity is Macedonia being a slavic country. (The very image of Alexander the Great talking in Slavic to his mentor Aristotle feels like a skit from a comedy.) Macedonia can certainly be a country. But if there is a Macedonian state, by definition it's a Greek country. If it's not Greek, then it's Not a Macedonian state, but a different country.
It's true. Anyone wants souvlaki?
@@loyalbeaver9402 Exactly, Like, how I have a friend named Alex, which, despite never having set foot on the continent of Europe, makes him Greek. Because if anyone is named Alexander, that automatically means they have to be Greek. No one else is allowed to use the name Alexander.
"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians"
- Kiro Gligorov, FYROM's first President, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992
Modern day Greeks aren't genetically related to ancient Greeks
@@Swift-mr5zi Scientists disagree.
@@Swift-mr5zi www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/greeks-really-do-have-near-mythical-origins-ancient-dna-reveals#:~:text=The%20Greeks%20really%20do%20have%20near%2Dmythical%20origins%2C%20ancient%20DNA%20reveals,-By%20Ann%20Gibbons&text=Ever%20since%20the%20days%20of,favor%20with%20the%20Greek%20gods.
well in words yeah my friend.But what is this huge monument in Skopje?You are not descendants but Alexander the great's monument is highy and mighty in your capital even though you have 0 relation with him historically speaking and even if you consider everything else (his family,he spoke greek everything was greek around alexander) even his name in greek means "the one who repels men (repels the enemies) " . Αλέξανδρος = ανήρ+ απομακρύνω .
Wait,the first president of macedonia is Nikola Karev,not Kiro gligorov,Kiro gligorov is the second macedonian president
The Glorious South Slavic Un-Hellenic Non-Alexandrian Former Yugoslav Democratic Republic of Upper New Vardar Occupied Macedonia-Skopje
edit: nirad802 suggested adding New Vardar
edit 2: Haris Manou said that Macedonia isn't the best option to put in this name, so I'll change it to occupied Macedonia
THE NATION GSSUHNAFYDRUM
Iykury lol
just missed Vardar
vocalweeb MY MAN
*Pins Order of Alexander to your chest*
Short version:
Greece: copyright strike
Nahh , grece is Macedonian
@@user-tx3yh8pu6j Greece isn't only Macedonia but Attica, Peloponnese and other Greek regions 😉
Macedonian Empire from the antiquity and Macedonia in nowadays are two completely different things!
The first one is a Macedonia of Alexander The Great and the second one, the nowadays MACEDONIA, a region divided between 3 countries now,
was predominantly populated by Slavic Macedonians also known as Bulgarians from Macedonian region!
Oh fuck off
When we was here, your nation was not even behind the Karpats, and the bulgarians was not even in Mongolia so... You just talk trash.
I live in montreal Canada.
But I followed the "north Macedonian" trend and built a statue of Julius Caesar in my backyard 2 yrs ago. Now I consider myself roman , I live in rome and you must call me a roman .
Till 1830 "greeks" were pretending to have a roman identity so it would be more accurate to call it gypsie greek trend
@@e.v.5456 lol yeah good one nerd 👍
@@e.v.5456 we were part of the roman empire lol. We were named the eastern roman empire and were mostly greek speaking. I dont make sense out of your comment so im just giving you out this handful of information.
@@e.v.5456 Read a book man . Seriously. The Homer was publishing the Iliad 700 years before the Romans were even a thing. I repeat. Read a book
Are you for real? Hahahah. Read a bit of history, 1913, the Bucurest deal. This is how far I can help you! Goodluck in your endevours building idols in your backyard.
It's almost 7th of March, Happy horse Easter to all the Turkicdonians !
@Red Yellow Phalanx Prof. Miroslav Grcev, Member of the Slavomacedonian government, Live on Camera, Nov.2017
_"...The "(Slavo)Macedonian" State was literally _*_INVENTED_*_ during the end of the WW2 within Yugoslavia (1945, by the Yugoslav communists). In this framework for the _*_FIRST TIME in history_*_ the '(slavo)macedonian' _*_nation,_*_ the '(slavo)macedonian' _*_culture,_*_ the '(slavo)macedonian' _*_language,_*_ the '(slavo)macedonian' _*_history_*_ and the '(slavo)macedonian' _*_SYMBOLS, were also invented and emancipated._*_ Today this (historical truth) is _*_forbidden._*_ And nowadays, on almost a national level as a society, we are in a very backwards and horrible process of self-annihilation, placing ourselves in the prenatal period of _*_(ancient)_*_ Macedonia..."_
@Red Yellow Phalanx Hapy Horse Easter, Mongol !
@Red Yellow Phalanx Professor Toni Deskoski, Skopje, SlavoMacedonia, ON CAMERA *February 2018,*
*_"We tried to REPLACE our identity,_*_ to inject ancient Greek "DNA" (culture & history) in our society, in order to CHANGE our collective memory; the memory of a _*_Slavic_*_ nation. We tried to PRESENT and to _*_PROMOTE ourselves as_*_ an ancient Macedonian nation. _*_The ancient Macedonians were actually GREEKs._*_ It was a very crazy attempt to _*_present_*_ a Slavic nation as GREEK nation and that cause a great confusion within our State."_
@Red Yellow Phalanx 🦄🦄🦄
@The Yellow Red Phalanx This is some Skopjan minimum wage behaviour you are exhibiting. Greece's army spending is more than your country's GDP. You call Greeks poor; your country is below broke. So broke, that if you decide to ever invade us it will be with speared phalanxes. Greece could rekt you in a matter of hours, as military exerceise. Your army is that laughably insignificant.
*Saying Alexandros was Macedonian and not Greek, is like saying Leonidas was Spartan and not Greek, Pericles was Athenian and not Greek, or that Oedipus was Corinthian and not Greek.* Back then there wasn't one united Hellas but many independent Greek City States that shared language, religion, beliefs, traditions and culture. That's basic history. But I guess in the world we live in, every nobody can claim something...
1. Ancient Greeks called Ancient Macedonians Barbarians [non-Greeks]
2. Simply using someone else's script does not make You a part of their nation, why? Becau8se about half of the world should belong to England by that logic
3. The nobody claiming everything is Greece, why? Before the balkan wars Greeks had no idea about the ancient past and the ones that introduced them to it were the Brittish and French
+Yanuchi Uchiha
The fact that you believe the Latin script is English leads me to completely ignore any sort of opinion on history you may have.
Yanuchi Uchiha: Anime, Games and Ramdomness
On 1.
Not the Greeks, an Athenian statesmen, Demosthenes, and for political reasons. And though the Athenians regarded practically every non-Athenian being inferior to them (polically), there were many Athenian statesmen who defended Philipp. Aeschines, the Athenian statesman, defending Philipp and the macedons *accused Demosthenes that not Philipp, but Demosthenes hilself was a barbarian.* In fact, the word 'barbarian' was being used VASTLY as a political insult rather than to define ancestry.
Obviously they 'forgot' to teach you these in Skopje.
On 2.
Arrian, _"Anabasis of Alexander"_ Book II, Ch.7, par.4,5, Cambridge, Massachussets, Harvard University Press
_"...We Macedonians are to fight Medes and Persians, nations long steeped in luxury, while we heve long been hardened by warlike toils and dangers; and above it will be a fight among free men and slaves. And so•far _*_as Greek will meet Greek, WE shall not be fighting for like causes;_*_ those mercenaries with Dareius will risk their lives for pay, and poor pay too; _*_WE on the cotrary shall find for Greece and our hearts will be in it..."_*
On 3.
Ioannis (John) III Doukas Vatatzes , Emperor of Eastern Roman Empire (Empire of Nicaea) *1222-54 AD*
Response Epistle to Pope Gregory VIII of Rome
_"…This letter highlighted that _*_in our Greek race,_*_ wisdom is prevalent, and like a fountain, where drops are dropped everywhere, it is just for us, _*_we who this distinction light us,_*_ not to ignore the hierarchy of your throne. Then you demand from us not to ignore your own throne and its privileges, how we will counter demand from you not to disregard and acknowledge our right in authority and the state of Constantinople, which gained this authority from the times of Constantine the Great, and after it had seen many lords after him of _*_our race,_*_ and lasted for _*_A MILLENNIA,_*_ came down to us. For example the founders of my dynasty, those from the race of Duke’s and Comnenes, _*_not to mention the other ones, who all derive from Greek races, those, thus, of my generation held the power of Constantinople for hundreds of years._*_ Those (Emperors) who, even the Church of Rome and its hierarchic superiors, were calling ‘’Emperors of the Romans’’, now how come we seem to you that we have from nowhere the authority and the kingdom…''_
So This is like saying Turkey can be Macedonia, Syria can be Macedonia, all the conquered land of Alexander the Great can be claim with the name Macedonia but they don't and can't, so why they (the slavic) would and could do that? Just because of land that was conquered there? But other countries were also conquered.. there must be an hidden agenda behind all this
Yanuchi Uchiha: Anime, Games and Ramdomness
Then why most of the Macedonia(the real one,the Greek) even before of Balkan wars was full of Greeks?
i love how you tackle these controversial issues with a high degree of objectivity each and every time
Thank you! I really appreciate that because that's exactly what I always strive for.
WonderWhy Keep up the good work. The comments will always be filled with misinformed idiots.
I personally can't believe that this is actually controversial but I guess that's the Balkans for you.
hedgehog3180 Its a long and complicated history if you truly want to understand it. There is just so many sides of the story you need to take considerations before you can understand. I don't think a youtube video can truly simplify this mess.
@@hedgehog3180 i personally can belive how stupid you are
This flag 🇲🇰 looks like a copy of the Japanese flag sponsored by McDonalds.
Omg I'm Ronald McDonald but *Japan*
60% of this new country🇲🇰 are Albanian muslims. No entry into the EU.
60% of VARDAR SKOPJE BITOLA ect are all Muslim Albanian.
🇲🇰 no entry into the EU 🇪🇺
Real history is unpleasant! East Albania 🇦🇱 or west Bulgaria 🇧🇬 is a realistic name.
Another name that could be really accurate is "Really far India"
Or even better Venice 2
I'm Slavic but I'm with Greeks in this as they are right. It's their name and culture
No
Dac DT yes
Hannibal why do you believe the lies of your politicians..? We Albanians are way more than 25% and we occupy territorially around half of FYROM so why not be called eastern Albania its the same logic applied as yours when it comes to the name macedonia
If Albanians are more that 25% why did they boycott the census in 2012 ?
If you are macedonian you know...because it was rigged by your nationalist government! The albanian parties all called for a boycott because the government wouldnt count the Albanians who were abroad temporarily! So you can imagine if we were 25% in the 2002 (also rigged census) how many we are today given also the fertility rates of Albanians which are much higher the the declining macedonian...also dont forge the gypsies and turks...
Alexander the Great: *_"Macedonia is my Kingdom, Greece is my country"_*
MobyDick: I am Macedonian from Pella and tour-guide in Greece. look: www.tourtripgreece.gr
Philip conquer the southern Greek city-states at 338 BC (battle of Heroneia). NOT all Greece as it is today.
Philip and Alexander have UNIFIED (forced to stop the civil-wars) most of the Greek city-states and formed the first time in history :"GREECE" (as one country). The Spartans did not participate, because they wanted for their-selfs the "hegemony".
Please do not offend linguistick ("f@cking" etc). Keep cool. THANK YOU.
@m0bydick nope. Macedonians united the Greeks.
@@athanasiosbairlis5563 Malakas grekos hahahaa
Robert Ristoski: When you have not any based in historic evidence to justify the existance of the FYROM abd you want the name that Josip Tito "baptized" you...you begin to swear trying to irritate anyone who is tellig you the truth about your origin.
Yes you are a mixture of Slav-Bulgar, Albanians, Gypsie-Roma, Turcs etc. How can you be "Macedonian" ??\
You HATE YOUR ORIGIN AND FEEL ASHAME ABOUT IT. ..seeking desperate other "identity."..."Bulgardonia" is OK ! (maximal...he)
@@athanasiosbairlis5563 your name Atanas Baraloski you're change your name 1870 so you can hide your Ethiopian dna !!!!
🇲🇰=🇧🇬
Bulgaria=Bully
🇧🇬=🇲🇳
🇦🇱+🇧🇬=🇲🇰
We in Sweden are learning in schools Macedonia is Greece
fuck your schools
Well, that's not 100% true. Jag skriver på svenska här nu till dig. Vi fick lära oss i skolan om alla länder i Europa, alltså var de ligger och så vidare. När jag gick i skolan så hette Nordmakedonien, Makedonien. Jag visste inte förrän i gymnasiet att nordliga delen av Grekland också heter Makedonien. Namnbytet var i allra högsta grad väsentligt. Kompromissen var väl bra?
@@eliasnjetski1146well that’s is 100% true Greeks are Macedonians …the north of Macedonia born 1991
The video is quite accurate and well done BUT tha major issue is not the name but the fact that people from Skopia claim to be the true descentents of Alexander the Great and of ancient Macedonians. They claim that ancient Macedonias were not Greeks and that the language they spoke had no relation to ancient Greek!!! They simply claim parts of Greek history as their own and that is why Greece can't aggree with the use of the name Macedonia by them.
its because its true costa...macedonia is not greek...have a look at the way the historians described the macedonians tall...huge...strong...athletic...now lets look at the greeks...small...stocky...fat and of dark features...guess what...they are not the same...and genetically not the same...proof macedonians were not Greek
Green Lantern Now that s one of the most retarded comments, I ve ever heard of. How can somebody even begin to form an answer if someone states such meaningless and untrue claims, expecting to be taken seriously
+Bruce Wayne is Deadpool Read your own greek historians description of how the macedonians looked you idiot...
No the amazing thing is that you claim that greeks are small stocky and fat and you ignore that
1. Being fat is about diet, greece might have an obesity problem now but that has nothing to do with hereditary aspects.
2. Height is something that changes over the years, during the Napoleonic years someone having a stature of 1.70 was considered pretty average while now it's considered short.
3. On the same note, historians of that time might have thought that Macedonians are tall, because the average back then was small.
4. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY. Wait you think guys from Skopje are "tall", "huge", and athletic. Piss off. You guys are slav squatting so hard that after the age of 25 you start losing height. And the only reason you are not fat is because you don t have money to feed yourselves.
Fyrom has guys so pale cause they are all slavic tribes straight from the north. Greece on the contrary has a skin complex much closer to the one macedonians had. So fucking piss off and find another historic figure to steal.
A country younger than most people, should not claim the history of another country.
>claim history
JOHN KONSTANTINIDIS YOU ARE RIGHT
Vardar-Macedonians actually believe they are part greek and descendents of ancient macedonians. Their government even prints such blatant lies in their text books.
A person with a IQ lower than 12,should stay quiet.
SirusKing
those who feel "macedonians" are part greek for sure!!!
It's not a word order... Upper Republic of Macedonia implies that there is a bond to the Macedonian Kingdom and also could imply that Upper Republic of Macedonia lacks it's other half. Republic of Upper Macedonia cuts off any ties to the ancient macedonian kingdom AND describes the country by the region it holds. Those words are carefully placed where they are. If all North Macedonia cared about was it's name, it's government wouldn't have erected statues of Alexander the Great and all those other things. Luckily they have a more reasonable government now, still not very trustworthy, given the fact that there are many parts of the deal that still remain only on paper
@ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ is МАКЕДОНИЈА You are NOT Macedonian you are Bulgarian
Macedonia is Greece
FYROM - North Macedonia is Bulgarian
"Carte ethnigraphique de la Turquie d'Europe et des etats vassaux autonomes" Guillaume Lejean, 1861
i.imgur.com/3yQhTdZ.jpg
"Этнографическая карта славянскихь народностей" Михаил Ф. Миркович, 1867
i.imgur.com/eOxyx7x.jpg
"The Turks, the Greeks and the Slavons. Travels in the Slavonic Provinces of Turkey-in-Europe" G. Muir Mackenzie and A. P. Irby, London, 1867
i.imgur.com/vVNEMA9.jpg
"Мара Slovanskègo Svèta" Karel Jaromir Erben, 1868
i.imgur.com/jH8TeHF.jpg
"Nouvelle Géographie Universelle" Élisée Reclus, 1876
i.imgur.com/T1wkC7o.jpg
"Ethnographische Übersicht des europäischen Orients / zusammengestellt" H. Kiepert, Berlin, im Mai 1876
i.imgur.com/NnDyK49.jpg
"Carte Ethnographique de la Turquie d'Europe" A. Synvet, 1877
i.imgur.com/NPN3Sbm.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte der der Europäischen Türkei und ihrer Dependenzen zu Anfang des Jahres" Carl Sax, 1877
i.imgur.com/78KmjLy.jpg
"Ethnographical Map of Turkey in Europe" Ernst Ravenstein, 1880
i.imgur.com/JaTn2Yb.jpg
"Peoples at the Balkan Peninsula" Andrees Allgemeiner Handatlas, 1st Edition, Leipzig, 1881
i.imgur.com/Ns38Klw.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte der sudwestlichen Balkanhalbinsel" Dr Gustav Weigand. Leipzig, 1890
i.imgur.com/5ea8vh4.jpg
"Карта Славянскихь Народностей" Н. С. Зарянко, Санкт Петербург, 1890
i.imgur.com/mK7q7Go.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte von Makedonien, Deutsche Rundschau für Geographie und Statistik Bd. XXI" Friedrich Meinhard, 1899
i.imgur.com/9BCwlQt.jpg
"Populations de la peninsule des Balkans, Institut Geographique de Paris" Ch. Delagrave, 1899
i.imgur.com/rYyEOwn.jpg
"Narodopisna mapa Slovanstva, Slovanské starožitnosti" Lubor Niderle, 1902
i.imgur.com/dDZ5ovH.jpg
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitola_inscription
"In the year 6523 since the creation of the world [1015/1016? CE], this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria"
"This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria"
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www.britannica.com/topic/Internal-Macedonian-Revolutionary-Organization
"IMRO was founded in 1893 in Thessaloníki; its early leaders included Damyan Gruev, Gotsé Delchev, and Yane Sandanski, men who had a Macedonian regional identity and a Bulgarian national identity. "
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books.google.com/books?id=ZmesOn_HhfEC&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q&f=false
“The interwar Serbian (and later Yugoslav) government attempted quite unsuccessfully to “Serbianize” the Slavs of Yugoslav Macedonia, who generally defined themselves as Bulgarians, but who were officially referred to as South Serbs by the Yugoslav government.”
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loring_Danforth
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www.scribd.com/document/61993141/History-of-the-Balkans-Vol-2-Twentieth-Century-the-Joint-Committee-on-Eastern-Europe-Publication-Series-No-12
Page 103 in pdf/91 in book :
"However, in the nineteenth century the term Macedonian was used almost exclusively to refer to the geographic region; the Macedonians were usually not considered a nationality separate from the Bulgarians, Greeks, Serbs, or Albanians. The diplomatic records of the period make no clear mention of a separate Macedonian nation. At the time of the Constantinople conference of 1876 and the Congress of Berlin, as we have seen, the represen-tatives of the great powers considered the region to be of an extremely mixed ethnic composition, but predominantly Bulgarian."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jelavich
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books.google.com/books?id=48NyoQdOWH0C&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false
"In interviews with elderly Vlah-speakers, I was told that their language has no way to distinguish "Macedonian" and "Bulgarian" as ethnic terms, using v'rg'ri to translate both. The term has a clear etymological connection with Bulgar, and this upsets younger people who have grown up in Yugoslav or post-Yugoslav Macedonia, where the difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian became a matter of concern."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Brown_(linguist)
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books.google.com/books?id=-7TgkO8utHIC&lpg=PP13&ots=en&pg=PA236#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Up until the early twentieth century, the international community viewed Macedonians as a regional variety of Bulgarians, i.e. Western Bulgarians. However, during the Paris Peace Conference of 1919 the Allies sanctioned Serbian control of much of Macedonia because they accepted the belief that Macedonians were in fact Southern Serbs. This extraordinary change in opinion can largely be attributed to one man, Jovan Cvijić, a prominent geographer at the University of Belgrade."
Author - www.researchgate.net/profile/George_White8
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humstatic.uchicago.edu/mahimahi/media/faculty/vfriedm/164Friedman01.pdf
"The authors of this period(1794-1840) in both Macedonia and Bulgaria called their vernacular language "Bulgarian"."
- in the 2nd page of the pdf at the end of paragraph (1).
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Friedman
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Macedonian_Matters
"Za makedonckite raboti (Cyrillic script: За македонцките работи, English translation: On Macedonian Matters) is a book written by Krste Misirkov and published in 1903 in Sofia, Bulgaria. The book presents the author's views towards the Macedonian Question, and explores the sense of national belonging and nеed for affirmation of the Macedonians as a separate people. The book marked the first complete outline of the Macedonian language as a separate and proposed the need for its codification."
books.google.com/books?id=ZmesOn_HhfEC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA63#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Finally, Krste Misirkov, who had clearly developed a strong sense of his own personal national identity as a Macedonian and who outspokenly and unambiguously called for Macedonian linguistic and national separatism, acknowledged that a 'Macedonian' national identity was a relatively recent historical development. In On Macedonian Matters, published in 1903, Misirkov, referring to himself and other Slavs of Macedonia in the first person plural, admits repeatedly that "our fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians" and that "in the past we have even called ourselves Bulgarians" (1974:27, 150)."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loring_Danforth
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books.google.com/books?id=Y0NBxG9Id58C&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA37&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Until the late 19th century both outside observers and those Bulgaro-Macedonians who had an ethnic consciousness believed that their group, which is now two separate nationalities, comprised a single people, the Bulgarians. Thus the reader should ignore references to ethnic Macedonians in the Middle ages which appear in some modern works. In the Middle Ages and into the 19th century, the term 'Macedonian' was used entirely in reference to a geographical region. Anyone who lived within its confines, regardless of nationality could be called a Macedonian. Nevertheless, the absence of a national consciousness in the past is no grounds to reject the Macedonians as a nationality today."
Author - lsa.umich.edu/history/people/emeritus/jvafine.html
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=bSxHgej4tKMC&printsec=frontcover&hl=en&pg=PA431#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Macedonian was not distinguished from Bulgarian for most of its history. Constantine and Methodius came from Macedonian Thessaloniki; their old Bulgarian is therefore at the same time 'Old Macedonian'. No Macedonian literature dates from earlier than the nineteenth century, when a nationalist movement came to the fore and a literacy language was established, first written with Greek letters, then in Cyrillic. From the point of view of Bulgaria, Macedonian is simply a west Bulgarian dialect."
Author - lsa.umich.edu/classics/people/departmental-faculty/fortsonb.html
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=MZcCA4hkwscC&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA189#v=onepage&q&f=false
“What made Parlichev adopt the Bulgarian nationalist cause was the fate of the Miladinov brothers, one of whom had been his Greek teacher at school in Ohrid. In 1861 the brothers had published a collection of Bulgarian Macedonian songs in Zagreb, dedicated to Joseph Strossmayer, Catholic bishop of Diakovar[Djakovo], who was an active supporter of the pan-Slavist movement.”
Author - oxford.academia.edu/PeterMackridge
----------------
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_the_International_Commission_on_the_Balkan_Wars
"The International Commission consisted of university professors and other prominent individuals from France, Great Britain, United States, Germany, Austria and Russia. Among the members of the Commission there were three Nobel Prize winners.[1]"
archive.org/details/reportofinternat00inteuoft/page/50/mode/2up
The most important part is between pages 50 and 57.
Also "Macedonia" (the greek Region) implies that there is a bond to the Makedon Kingdom... there are always two sides in a conflict.
@@hellothere8121 well it doesn't imply... It straight up claim its connection to Macedonian Kingdom. The fact that the Macedonian Kingdom is ancient Greek history is not seriously debated anymore, it was not debated even in Roman times. That topic is debated the same way some people debate over earth being flat or not. So there is no actual other side on the matter. I do understand that sometimes countries cling to parts of history in order to justify their existence and survive. It's something that all countries do to a certain degree. I personally have no hard feelings on people who want to believe that they decent from Alexander the Great. I have a serious problem when they claim that he is called Alexandar and that his name means dream of a warm day and such bullshit. Alterting history is a crime in my eyes. So to conclude, if there is a country that feels Macedonian is fine by me. They have to accept though that they claim to be descendants of greeks. Could they be a mix of greek slavs etc? Of course! We all are. But if they claim that they are Macedonians they claim they are greek and they should move towards changing back to their roots. If not, they should find another historical part to cling to. But wanting both is stupid offensive and dangerous. That is my personal view on the matter.
@@hellothere8121 ~ ~ fly ~ ~ fly
in rocks.
This comment section is the reason why I don’t like humans that much anymore
didnt mention that Greece isnt actually called greece..... the official name of the country is the Hellenic Republic and macedonia in ancient time was a hellenic kingdom, not slavic.....
Well fuck I guess the solution is just to call Macedonia Greece since that name isn't taken.
I second it. Aromanians are considered the closest to ancient Macedonians & they don't care about this mess. Let's remove the borders. We want to enjoy the Macedonian salad.
Yes its Hellas not Greece. Greece was the name the Romans used for Hellas. Our name is Hellas not Grecce. 100% yu are right
fmldominic u know history man ...hw old were once again ??
Dimitar Berberu aromanias?what
The comment wars caused by this country are hilarious
betarage at least that's one thing my country is good at :')
NickTEG TheEmeraldGamer Not true! You exist, and you're great :')
@Game james @worldsbestskiinstructor FIGHT!
@betarage It is a subjects that attracts nationalists and/or trolls like rotten meat attracts flies.
Fotis Kepelis
Fotis Kepelis
7 minutes ago (edited)
DNA taken from teeth of 19 people, including 10 Minoans from Crete dating 2900 B.C.E TO 1700 B.C.E. , four from Mycenaeans from the archaeological site at Mycenae and other cemeteries on the Greek mainland dating from 1700 B.C.E. to 1200 B.C.E. and five people from other early farming bronze age (5400 B.C.E. to 1340 B.C.E.) cultures in Greece showed that by comparing 1.2 million letters of genetic code across the genomes to those of 334 other ancient people from around the world and 300 modern Greeks the researches were able to plot how modern Greeks and ancient Greeks have a continuity through the centuries which exceeds 90% of the population in modern Greece. When researches compared DNA of modern Greeks to that of ancient Mycenaeans they found that modern Greeks share the similar proportions of DNA from the same ancestral sources as Mycenaeans. The fact that certain archaeologists thought they were partly Egyptian turns out to be false. The continuity between Mycenaeans and modern Greeks is "particularly striking". Was the result of studies conducted by : University of Washington, Seattle - University of Cambridge, United Kingdom - University of Gothenburg, Sweden - Harvard University, Massachusetts.
As you can see troll there are no Greek Universities in this study. In other words its an unbiased international study. So get your head out of you ass, read some international literature on the subject and forget the bullshit propaganda you have been spoon-fed by your idiotic governments.
We in Sweden are learning in schools that the Ancient Macedonians were Greeks
Well in some other countries the teachers are so lazy to say that macedonia is not greece
And that's what's true.
@@idkwhattonamethis4417 depends on what you mean by "macedonia".
Geographically, it's a region. Historically, it was a *Greek* empire.
@@TheYoutubaki macedonia is country region dont exist falae hellas propaganda
@@leah.g greek never existed hellenic become fake greek made by united Kingdom 😂
Look, im not trying to be rude but i am just trying to be logical, so first of all, about the name...The territory that we live in, is a part of the big region Macedonia, and since we live here for many years, we cant call our country, lets say Indonesia, because North Macedonia is where we live in, and i suggest that the best and the most logical name for our country is North Slavic Macedonia, or just Slavic Macedonia, they are the most logical ones based on the territory and the people that live there,Republic Of Vardarska is not bad, but its a very big change.And about Alexander, you are right, we have nothing to do with him, slavic people came in these areas many years after his existance...And for all greek people saying we are greek or bulgarian,no we are not, we came from the slavic tribes that came into this north of macedonia and south macedonia, such as Bersitians,Strumians,Velegesits, Rhinhinians and many more, today a big part of people who live in South Macedonia have slavic origins, they just dont know that
or just reunite macedonia with Bulgaria. Boom, naming controversy solved, and macedonians wont have to make up a fake history.
@@quan-uo5ws Yeah sure, a typical comment that an angry person with no argument would type...
@@user-ku2xp3qm6j yes im very angry i almost destroyed my keyboard writing this
@@quan-uo5ws Maybe you are not, but you are dumb, that s for sure!
@@nightowlmuse729 Ironically enough im not even 18, and most people that argue with greeks are 40+...
the ''Vardar Republic'' - ' sounds good to me .
sounds badass actually!
gio agg don’t think a country is going to use a name that’s been used as an insult by others
K Van who ?
You are Bulgarian not Macedonian
@@st3fan735 awsome! Ahahaha
Hellas is another name of Greece. And The ancient Macedonian Kingdom was actually Hellinistic. Like the world that Alexander created
Worldbests.... Actually Alexander not only created a Hellinistic Kingdom but he was also Greek. Like his name, his culture, his Gods, His origins. His everything.
@@limnmark And Alexander is from Pella, located Only in Greece.
@Konstantin Trehagyrevopoulos Ευχαριστω τοσο πολυ!!!
@@limnmark before 25 centuries
ALEXANDER THE GREAT --- TSAR ON MAKEDONIJA ! ! !
It should be noted that there is no connection between the Macedonians of the time of Alexander the great who were related to other Hellenic tribes and the Macedonians of today, who are of Slavic Origin and related to the bulgarians
It should be noted that there is no connection between the Ancient Greeks and Modern Greeks, who are forcibly assimilated (greekized): Arvanites (Albanians), Aromanians (Vlachs), Slavs, Turks and others. The german thinker Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer (1790 - 1861) wrote a lot about this stuff. There's nothing ancient about today's Greece (formed in 1822) and there's a huge historical gap between her and the Ancient Greeks, a gap that was filled by other ethnic groups.
Some years ago I opined that London was not really an English city any more
Since then, virtually all my friends from abroad have confirmed my observation that true indigenous londoners no longer exist on behalf of mass immigration.
So there must be some truth in it...I should also state that Greece was unfortunately flooded with slavic and Albanian aliens not indigenous to the Hellenic state therefore you were rightlyfully either assimilated into the Greek state or sent back where you naturally belong ..Also Jacob Fallmerayer propaganda theories where debunked and has no substance in truth whatsoever..
Be proud of your Serbian Bulgarian roots and stop pretending you belong to ancient Greek history .Today's modern Greeks can read and understand what the ancient left Greeks behind them in history in antiquity and western schools teach Latin and Greek not slavic or Albanian so take a hike your embarrassing yourself ex communist brainwashed chimpanzees..
@@Peterkonto, your Karamanlides grandfathers from the caves of Cappadocia were recent migrants to Macedonia (in 1923), not the Slavs who lived there for millenia and a half, long before Greece conquered that land in 1912-13. Your analogy between those Slavs and the recent migrants in London is a nonsense. The Slavs didn't arrive there yesterday and they didn't arrive in Greece, which didn't exist back then (it was formed in 1822). These Slavs settled in Macedonia, they gave birth to new generations on that land, they ate vegetables and drank water from it and finally they were buried in it. They even absorbed some pre-Slavic genes and left an indelible mark on the region. Perhaps they were not directly linked to the ancient Macedonians, but in a way they became Macedonian. And they're much more Macedonian than the turkosporos that arrived there in 1923.
@Day Tripper Greeks have been living in what is now Turkey continuously since the middle 2nd millennium BC. Following upheavals in mainland Greece during the Bronze Age Collapse, the Aegean coast of Asia Minor was heavily settled by Ionian and Aeolian Greeks and became known as Ionia and Aeolia ,also two of the wonders of the ancient world were built by the ancient Greeks in today's Turkey..
It's also time for the Slavic North Macedonians to come to the realization that their deception of Macedonian history has been thwarted and laid to rest.
Time to move on from your misleading propaganda! You are the laughingstock of the entire world. Take a good look at yourselves in the mirror, for no one else in the entire world shares your warped interpretation of world history.
You doing your image a disservice and achieving nothing other than ridicule.The Slavic-speaking population in the region of Macedonia had been referred to both (by themselves and outsiders) as Bulgarians, and that is how you were predominantly seen since 10th,up until the early 20th century. According to Encyclopædia Britannica,
Tito is no longer with , you can now stop this charade.
No one is listening to your nonsense ..The North slavic Macedonian language is a Slavic language basically in between Serbian and Bulgarian which was codified away from the Bulgarian language and became a official language in 1932..
Bit like the British in that sense, the issue of tribal nationalism or civic nationalism
Alexander the Great was Greek and Tsar Samuel was Bulgarian.
That makes me believe they were Macedonians even more 😃
And you are vulgar Roman .
The name "Macedonia" comes from the combination of the ancient Greek linguistic root "mac" which in turn comes from the greek word "mecos/macros" which means "length" and the also ancient Greek word "έδος/'εδαφος" or "edos/edafos" which means "land". The reason for that combination of words (mac+edos) is the shape of the geographical area of the Greek Macedonia back in the time of Homer, who at some point in the Odyssey, mentioned a tribe of Greeks from the "long land", using the word "Macednos" to describe their origin. Thucydides, an ancient Greek historian and general, described the geographical area of Greek Macedonia as "the long land" using the word "Macedonia".
And that, lads, is the Greek origin of the word "Macedonia" and is one more reason why the geographical area that currently belongs to Greece, is the one true Macedonia.
Does the word "Macedonia" even HAVE origins from the language FYROM civilians speak? Does it even MEAN something in their language?
I'm no scholar but some say Macedons geographic proximity to Thrace/illyria suggests that their version of Koine was mixed with the languages of their neighbors.
And are you sure that's the origin of "Makedonia"?
The "dón" in Makedon may have come from the thracian word for "homeland" or the ancient greek word for earth or soil (cthon)
"Maka" could also have sanskrit origins for the word "mother" just as the Phrygian language had considerable indo-european influence as well. So maybe Make-don means motherland...or maybe the greeks are right and it means "tall and slender".
Don't know, and don't actually give a fuck.
As for our "bullshit skopijan slav FYROM" language... lets take a closer look at some of our words, hm?
Mourning = "Zhal", based on old dacian god of the underworld, Zalmoxis (Ζάλμοξις)
Quick = Brzo, based on Thracian word "Bruzas" meaning same thing
White = Belo, Thracian word: "Balios"
Bull = Vol, Thracian word: "Bolinthos"
Water = Voda, Phrygian word: "Bedu"
To gather = soberi/biram, Phrygian word: Bher/ber, root word for "bearing"
To give = Dava/dadi, Phrygian word: dadón
Hedgehog = ezh, Phrygian: ezis, Greek: eschinos, root word for echidna
rice = Oriz, Thracian: Briza, Greek: orinda/óryza
mud/swamp = Khal, Thracian: Chalas
home = doma, Thracian = dama, sanskrit: dhama, greek word for house: thaimós
earth = Zemja, Thracian = zeml’a
woman = zhena, thracian word for birth or origin: (zenis), Greek word: "gen-es", root word for "genetics"
Dog = Kuche/Kune, Phrygian word = Kunes
Green = Zeleno, Phrygian word for vegetation = zelkia
Son = Sin, Thracian word: Cin, root word for kin
I'm just some guy who's only fluent in the english language, but if if this was my field of expertise I'm sure I could go on and on....its obvious that our language is heavily mixed with proto-slavic which has ZERO connections to the area prior to 600ad....but let's not pretend our language is made up bulgarian bullshit over here.
It's based on old church Slavonic: a language created by two byzantine greeks in the capitol of macedonia, for the bulgarian kingdom, and it is based on a mixture of the protoslavic languages spoken by slavic settlers and the paleobalkan languages spoken by the natives.
So don't be so quick to shit all over us, we haven't been here as long as the pelasgians or trojans or acheans....but we've been here as while as well.
The root of the name Makedonia is found in the Macedonian language which modern linguists refer to as slavonic. It’s all the same. Make - means mother, don - means Holy and “ia” - means land. The land of the holy mother or the holy mother land. Just as it is written on the Rosetta Stone where the Macedonians were called children of the holy mother.. The Ancient Macedonian is the proto Slavic that all so called Slavic languages originate from. It’s as simple as that
the classic wikipedia historian...
What are you guys even talking about. Macedonia means long land, simply because Macedonians and northern Greeks were generally taller than the southerners! The ancient Macedonian language is a Greek dialect as seen by the Pella Tablet which is written ancient Macedonian. Slavic arrived 2.000 years later.... Macedonia is an archaic place since at least the indoeuropean migrations... Dont play with words.
xristo702 The language spoken today in fyrom is a mixed SlavicGreekAlbanian dialect . Albanian and Greek language both are paleobalkanic and related to Thracian. Slavic is related to Baltic and not Thracian.
Everytime I hear this dispute, I'm reminded that the USA has a ton of states, districts, cities and do on that are names of other places in europe......
Jn liew cause Eastern Europe is petty as fuck.
A lot of them were named by European countries though. Not all...but a lot.
Yes, but unlike this situation, Birmingham, Alabama don't claim itself to be the real Birmingham, England
The US is a country founded on immigrants from other nations.
It's just the way it is.
I wonder if Greece has a problem with the name of Macedon New York?
of North Macedonia have a Macedonian Slavic national identity. They are Slavic-speaking descendants of the Slavic tribes who have lived in the area since the 6th century and have a contentious history with Bulgaria and to some respects Serbia historically respectively
Historically, the term "Macedonia" which, it should be noted, is a Greek word, refers to the Kingdom and the civilization of the Ancient Macedonians, who belong to the Hellenic nation, and constitute an indisputable part of the historical and cultural heritage of Greece.
Geographically, this term refers to a larger area spanning the present territory of various Balkan countries. Most of it is located in Greece, while other smaller parts of it are in North Macedonia, Bulgaria and Albania. The main body of Ancient Macedonia lies within the present Hellenic borders and occupies the northern part of the Greek territory. It has been historically called Macedonia and its current population amounts to about 2. 5 million Greek citizens.
The roots of the name issue go back to the aftermath of World War II, when Marshal Tito separated the region that until then was called Vardar Banovina (i.e. the current Republic of North Macedonia) from Serbia, granted it the status of federal component of the then new Federal Yugoslavia, and renamed it initially "the People's Republic of Macedonia " and later "the Socialist Republic of Macedonia". At the same time, he began to cultivate the idea of a separate and distinct "Macedonian nation"...The only people who say that todays northern Macedonias are slavic and also indigenous macedonians is by the fabricated brainwashed nationalistic slavic macedonians to the amusement of the whole world..
@@Peterkonto TATJANA MAKEDONKA.
vol @.
I am Fyromian ,I have no reason to support Greece,just telling the truth.
you have plenty of Romani people (Gypsies) in Greece, too. It's just Greece doesn't recognize any other ethnic groups except Greeks, so the Romas are counted as Greeks.
@@longingforthesouth9198not true but you’re uneducated so I don’t blame you. Greece has not taken an ethnic census in a long time. The recognized (Turkish) Muslim minority has tons of exclusive rights.
As a proud Greek Macedonian, this is a clean cut, unbiased and very enlightening video. Thank you!
Thanks for that! Really appreciate it. As for your other comment, I'll admit it's maybe possible I have understated how many people want a United Macedonia, but even if they were to elect a nationalist government... realistically they can't act on it anyway. Greece is a more powerful country in every way, and has NATO on its side. So whether the territorial ambitions exist or not, Greece really doesn't need to worry about it.
About the name suggestions though... I don't think using "Slavic" in their name is very fair because of the very large minority of Albanians that reside in the country. I'm personally a fan of New Macedonia.
yes
Dahkittydoonsta The people of Skopje are SLAVS not HELLENES. Once Golden Dawn gets into power the Megali idea will be realized and this petty dispute will be settled once and for all.
WonderWhy You were right in saying it is mainly nationalist Macedonians that continue to see Greek Macedonia as a territory to be united with, but you missed the major issue why Macedonians (like me) care for keeping the name.
Today, Macedonians generally view Greece with contempt over the historical treatment of the ethnic Macedonians in the region after the Balkan Wars and the Greek Civil War. That is something I feel was missing. It is true that current Greek Macedonia is overwhelmingly Greek, but abuses of the Macedonian group (including the refusal to recognize the ethnicity) in the 20th century are a sore spot.
Sorry if this was rather long, but I really did enjoy the video and you did a good job explaining an oddly complicated issue!
WonderWhy Very good points! The Albanians may feel left out with “Slavic Macedonia”, but the Slavic Macedonians could look at Vardarska Republic as well, since that was once the name of the region.
Man, this issue is all because of labeling. Ugh.
WonderWhy: *mentions balkans*
Balkans: REEEEEEEEEEE
Encyclopædia Britannica 📖:
"The Slavic-speaking majority in the Region of Macedonia had been referred to (both, by themselves and outsiders) as Bulgarians, and that is how they were predominantly seen since 10th, up until the early 20th century."
Boban Cholich macedonia is greece
Boban Cholich CYPRUS IS GREEK LIKE WTF
Boban Cholich HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAAHHAAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Boban Cholich cyprus is greek🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
If the skopjeans (west bulgarians) were "right" about this argument, then why couldn't they ratio this video which CLEARLY states that Macedonia is Greek.
Which, Macedonia is Greek and will NEVER be slavic.
did you really say "west bulgarians"?
First, what do you mean by "ratio"? Second, the slavic Macedonians don't live only in Skopje, but also in Bitola, Ohrid, Florina, Kastoria, Edessa and many other places all over Macedonia (note: I use the expanded [Roman] definition of what Macedonia is and not the oldest definition that covered only the area around Pella, Vergina and Thessaloniki)
Turkicdonia is not an embarrassment! It's an important step for the improvment of relations between Europe and Central Asia, you ve been noticed!
@Sultan of Sultans Safiye Sultan They may have it next year, you never know...
How about "That Little Round Country North Of Greece"?
Συμεών 1926ΠΑΟΚGATE4 👍
Greece has no objection, unless containing "Macedonia"
More like Western Bulgaria
How about for greece "the Republic of Macedonian turks and albanian " ????
How about naming the country "Yugoslavia" which means The Land of the Slavs of the south, it world work.
I stand with Greece on this topic. FYROM has nothing to do with the name Macedonia
Hmm look at 10:38 under the turkish empire
Nikola MKD Thats a stupid example its a admenistrative region not a cultural or political one
cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4822044/RomanEmpire_117.svg.png
Sargento Bonzo Still the same reasons
That's a Greek Region in Roman Empire! Not Slavic region.... hahahahahah
Eid al-Fitr,typical day in Fyrom.
Al-Hijram Mosque🇲🇰🇹🇷 another impressive Mosque in FYROM Vardarska Banovina , one of the more than 600 Mosques in FYROM with opened doors for the worshippers
i see some of these comments and i lose faith in humanity
Eternal 98 same dude same
It’s bad enough that these things happened in the balkans, never mind the fact that people who aren’t connected to the situation in any way argue about and try to justify these events on the internet 20 years later
@@jmasters7515 U DONT NEED TO JUSTIFY NOTHING..HISTORIANS KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE GREEK ARCHEOLOGICAL FINDINGS ARE ALL OVER THE WORLD..ALEXANDER THE GREAT WAS GREEK EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT AND EVERYONE LEARNS THAT IN SCHOOL .ALBANIANS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKEDONIA..AND NOTHING TO CLAIM FOR .AND THE MASONS THAT RULE US GAVE THEM THE NAME FOR POLITICAL REASONS ONLY....!!!
.THATS A FACT!!
@@ph9692 I'm with you , and I just can't help myself , but very recent ,
Archeologists and historians just made a huge breakthrough and
Discovery that concerns where the Etruscans came from , for they already new what land they
Occupied which was between central and south of Italy.
The discovery came with a successful DNA Test showing that the Etruscans have a very close relative with DNA a perfect Match
With the Turks . They showed
Three languages,
Etruscan
Albanian
English
The Etruscan and Albanian languages were pretty much
A match word for word and a lot of
Letters and words exactly the
Same . The CROATION LANGUAGE
Is identical to Albanian.
And there you have it
@@Lion-rs2qy we all know the truth my friend..they know it too they just dont want to admit it..and the propaganda is huge in their country...we dont need the propaganda. We know our histoty its written all over europe to asia..i dont know what name are they claming for..we didnt even know what albanian meant until they came to greece and started to destroy everything..!!hopefully other countries will find out soon what they are all about..before its too late..😉🌹
Its really weird that we are speaking in 2018 about an ancient Kingdom that spoke Greek, belived in Greek gods, had the Greek culture etc etc.
Slavs has nothing to do with Macedonia, they have beautiful culture, glorious history and many things to be proud of.
FYROM please stop r@ping Slavic history!!!!
Extra points for adding a censor to "raping".
Listen man, if I could come from anywhere else I would just to stop hearing shit like this.
Hellenes and slavs moved freely between your country and mine at least since 700 ad and continued to do so all the way up to the balkan wars. When greek and other national identities began to coalesce in the early 1900s, atrocities were committed, population exchanges occurred, traitors were exiled...and now you have to deal with US, a slavic speaking people who used to live all the way from Veroia up to Skopje! The grudges we have are REAL, my friend....not some tito brainwashing and many of us ACTUALLY CAME FROM MACEDONIA (not just Paeonia)before getting driven out.
As for me, I love being slavic and your idiotic pleas for us to "stop raping slavic history" is pathetic. Our "slavic macedonian" identity has been around since the middle ages and I can admit that it (obviously) has very little to do with ancient Macedon but it also didn't just materialize in the 1990s after we broke off from Yugoslavia either. So calling us fyromians is a dick move and precisely why we'll never get along.
George: Scottish people speak English, believe in the same God, and write the same language and have a similar culture to the English, but they are NOT English. Macedonians (like me and my forefathers) speak Macedonian, we come from the (now) Greek part of Macedonia. What is strange is that Greeks call us Slavs, a term that I had never heard applied to Macedonians up until the 1990's, when the Greek government needed to hide from the global community the truth that is the Greek governments attempt at genocide of the Macedonian people of Aegis Makedonia. It's a terrible part of the history of Greece that needs to be told
@@jerie00 yeah, Scottish people are not English but both are British. Just like Macedonians are not Athenians but they are both Greeks. In your own example imagine if Scottish people were claiming they spoke Scottish instead of English Just because they have a different accent. They would sound stupid, right? Well that's how you sound when you say you speak Macedonian when in reality you speak Bulgarian but with a different accent
@@justinduck2953 actually the Scots have a very different native language to the English, as do the Welsh and the Irish. They all speak English now. And as the Scottish day 'hud ye whisht, ya wee lad' Alexander spoke Macedonian as well as Greek, because it was the language of trade and literature of the time. I don't speak Greek, but I speak Macedonian. My father was forced to speak Greek by the Greeks or be fined or imprisoned
A Slavo-Bulgarian people for their new state uses as a flag an ancient Greek symbol of the Argeide Greek dynasty and as a name an ancient Greek name already used in a northern Greek province.
Are we serious?
More and more Germans are choosing to spend holidays within their own country. Therefore, this year, most of them will spend it in Greece.
My god that hurt BADLY..... and has a bit of truth...
I don’t get it
Welp, I guess I'll see you in 2 months.
John A. Zoidberg *Years
John A. Zoidberg more like 2 years hehehe
This wouldn't be a problem if Yugoslavia was still around
živela Jugoslavija!
yeap
Hahahha
Voidzy the greeks where terrified of Yugoslavia
Yugoslavia never dissapeared, it just reduce to Serbia republic.
Love Macedonia!
And what about the rest of Greece?
I don't give thé rest.
FYROM is very sunny country but it's even more Sunni,if you know what I mean.
You must have balls of steel. Most people won't touch this even with a 10 feet barge pole. Kudos to you.
BALLLS OF STEEEEEEL!!
Noting new from people of the FORMER OTTOMAN REPUBLIC OF GERMANY ...
Naum Rusomarov why? cause some Slavic peasants from some backwater wanna claim a history they have no logical right to? hmm, weird
@@Sean-no3zv what is weird is that the ancient Greeks called the Macedonians foreigners and yet modern day Greeks think they are the same nationality. The Greeks hated the Persians, but could never conquer them. Alexander conquered and respected the Persians, he conquered the Greeks and realised that the Persians were a greater race by far. Alexander didn't like the Greeks, which is why he married wives from Persian royalty. He would never lower himself and marry a lowly Greek
Bear Bomber France is Bacon
Well this is like how the Holy Roman Empire isn’t Roman but they still call themselves Roman
OkThisllbeMyName because they viewed themselves as the successors of the Romans. This is also where the titles of Kaiser and Tsar/Czar came from, that being the word Caesar
This is slightly complicated.
The Pope crowns Charlemagne as King of the Romans after he saves Rome from attack. He is considered the frst king although not the first of the main line of Emperors. Later, another bloke called Otto also saves Rome and is again crowned King of the Romans. Despite having no real links to Rome or Italy he is called the Emperor and the title Holy is added as the Pope crowned him. He decides to expand northwards and include all the (mostly) German-speaking princedoms and kingdoms as one big sucessor kingdom to the old Roman Empire (the Byzantines were of course not very happy).
While the definition Holy Roman Empire was correct, it lost.effect when Germans began changing to Lutheranism and made ruling very difficult since the HRE was to be Catholic.
hmmm that's why there are Romanians
OkThisllbeMyName It also wasn't very holy.
OkThisllbeMyName there no such thing as a yoslavic minority in Greece! Dear wonderwhy you say that NATO guarantee the Greek border please research first the 90s dispute of imia isles and you will see that the Balkans are not your typical allies
When youtube channels are better than greek politicians at presenting the historic truth...
Nice video!
They should just change their name to Best Macedonia.
"Glorious Democratic People's Republic of Macedon"
Jacob Eubank North macedonia, best macedonia
Real Macedonia.
the democratic peoples republic of northern best Macedonia formerly of Yugoslavia lol
Κώστας / Kosta why not take a joke for once in your life
Greece saying Macedonia has territories ambitions to take over their region named Macedonia is like if Mexico said new Mexico had plans to conquer them only because of name alone
Jackluck2 true
To be fair, the US gained and named the territory as New Mexico after the Mexican-American War, where they ceased it from Mexico as basically spoils of war, so not the best example of no territorial ambition lmao
FYROM currency showed "greater Macedonia" on it
The Patriotic Australian not true. Show proof. I have every single bill ever issued by the National Bank of the Republic Macedonia.
you are wrong, FYROM's constitution has irredentist claims.......what a silly comparison
Kiro Gligorov, the first leader of Macedonia after independence, who said that Macedonians are Slavs who arrived in the Balkans in the 6th century, seems to prevail. This is what was taught in school textbooks, which hardly contained any reference to Alexander the Great and were conditioned by Yugoslavia’s ideology. “We do not need to claim a pure Macedonian identity: Gruevski tried to falsify our past. Macedonian is a Slavic language. We understand each other with Russians and Ukrainians. We grew up with books that taught us that we are southern Slavs, which is what ‘Yugoslavia’ means,” says Katerina Kolozova, director of the Institute of Social Sciences and Humanities in Skopje.
then stop naming things in your country after Greek people and stealing greek symbols.
@Konstantin Trehagyrevopoulos false hellenic become greek made by united Kingdom 😂
@Konstantin Trehagyrevopoulos macedonian language exists today you are fake greek even dont exists you are hellenic aka united Kingdom false country
@Konstantin Trehagyrevopoulos You are based on fake history you are fake made by united Kingdom
@Konstantin Trehagyrevopoulos your fake propaganda 😂 your flag was made by united Kingdom 😂 your king otto from Germany 😂 greek are fake hellenic become greek kow eant to be macedonian😂 your shitty history fake zeus 😂
Another beautiful Mosque🇲🇰🇹🇷 is Murat Pasha Bey Mosque in FYROM Vardarska Banovina , one of the more than 600 Mosques in FYROM with opened doors for the worshippers
Being from Croatia myself, I congratulate you WonderWhy for accurately presenting this issue, as well as breakup of Yugoslavia. Good job!
They write in Cyrillic
They speak Bulgarian
They are Slavs and Albanians
But they want to be called Macedonians.
Well the Albanian 35% doesn’t really want to be ma macedonians:-)
Roman Stay out of this comrade Bandera.
You dont want to get sucked in to balkan politics.
BEST COMMENT !!!
Vas Gr No, Greece is just incredibly poor, and instead of concentrating on their failing economy and massive unemployment, they get triggered by the name of a country on their northern border.
You mean that a country with economic problems should not care about its "past - present -future" historical position...and let a foreing country to "take a bite" from its history ; Whould you like that happening to your country ?...
The banana republic of FYROM🇲🇰Vardarska Banovina is one of the poorest countries in Europe.
🇲🇰🇲🇰 Poor Poor Poor
greece is in debt lol
@@eireball but greece is still far richer than you
In ancient times southern Italy which was colonised by Greeks went by the name of MAGNA GRAECIA (Great Greece).
@Jd Pv no iq in your brain.
@Jd Pv about your profile pic Thessaloniki and Chalkidiki will always be ours.You can't conquer someone with 1 helicopter that you've got in your army
P.S..now there is now tsipras to save you
@Jd Pv
Macedonia is and will always be GREEK
@Jd Pv if you believe that greece existed since 1830 just because it was our date of independence,then you're brainless. What were the Byzantines? Athenes? Spartans? Macedonian themselves? You say that a whole 7,000 years of history is fake? From the Cycladic civilization from ~3,000 B.C. to Mycenaeans and so on. It has been proven that they were greek tribes with simmilar cultures.
Also, Macedonia is also a greek word for "The land of the tall people". Μακε- ,which means length and -δων,land or earth. Μακε is simmilar to today's word, Μήκος,as said before,it means length. -δων is simmilar to Έδαφος, ground,earth,land.
How can you explain these ones?
Ps. I want you to answer me some simple question,in which script did they wrote in?
@ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ is МАКЕДОНИЈА I have a question. Are you saying that all these words are of slavic-macedonian etymology?
how can a country that exists for 30 years claim to be an ancient civilization is beyond me
actually Macedonia is there for 2.5k years...nothing changed but Greece is bigger country and everyone thinks their lies are true
barbarian spotted
h4ppyh4rdc0ril4 XD
mateja pavlovic
1.
Prof. Miroslav Grcev, Member of the FYRMacedonian government, Live on Camera, Nov.2017
_"...The "Macedonian" State was _*_literally invented_*_ during the end of the WW2 (1945) within Yugoslavia. In this framework _*_for the first time in history_*_ the 'macedonian' _*_nation,_*_ the 'macedonian' _*_culture,_*_ the 'macedonian' _*_language,_*_ the 'macedonian' _*_history_*_ and the 'macedonian' symbols _*_were also invented and emancipated._*_ Today this (historical truth) is _*_forbidden._*_ And nowadays, on almost a national level as a society, we are in a very backwards and horrible process of self-annihilation, placing ourselves in the prenatal period of Macedonia..."_
2. FYROM is settled on *Paeonia,* not on Macedonia, and you are Slavs.
Dr David Gordon Mitten, Dr James Loeb, Professors of Classical Art and Archaeology, *Harvard* University
_"...We do not understand how the modern inhabitants of ancient _*_Paeonia_*_ ( the region the 1991 self-declared Republic of "Macedonia" is settled ), who speak Slavic - a language _*_and people introduced into the Balkans about a millennium after the death of Alexander_*_ - can claim him as their national hero. Alexander the Great was thoroughly and indisputably Greek..."_
how can a country that exists 100 years (greece)?
Tatar Bey Mosque🇹🇷🇲🇳🇲🇰 in FYROM Vardarska BaNAnovina North Monkedonia builded in 1532 in memory of their Fyromian Tatar ancestors a real jewel of Ottoman FYROM architecture, one of the more than 600 Mosques in FYROM with opened doors for the worshippers
We in Sweden are learning in schools for the Ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia
kingdom is differnt system then collonial city state. Today Greeks are Christian Romans not ancient Hellene. Greece is Roman from insignificant nearby colony. Greece want exclusivity of ancient and their nation was bult by "antiquation" (megali-idea / Military government doctrine ) and claiming all Christians as Greeks in educational system.
@@janeza382doesn’t change the fact that Macedonia is Greek
@@thebalkanhistorian.3205the South part, North Macedonia is Slavic and always Slav
@@Writer_Productions_Map nope, north Macedonia also used to be Greek (ancient pelagonia) along with most of the Balkans such as Bulgaria central Albania etc
@@thebalkanhistorian.3205 well, not anymore
Very good video man, I'm from one of these two countries and I can say your video was accurate and fair. Especially impressive considering how sensitive the issue and language used can be, well done. I felt the end is maybe ever so slightly unbalanced in favour of North Macedonia but you did a better job than 99% of professional journalists that have covered this issue. Well done !
The country's name doesn't "imply" territorial disputes. Their fucking constitution does!
Moron, did you even expand my reply ? Here is it again. I cover the 2 amendments but your preamble has not been touched!
There are two points of concern:
In the FYROM preamble, they define the FYROM state as a departure from the " ...historic decisions of the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the People's Liberation of Macedonia (ASNOM)... ". The problem is that ASNOM had called for the "Macedonians" in Bulgaria and other countries to unite under Tito's rule (remember Tito, he is the Croatian Godfather Communist that invented your fake state FYROM).
Their (FYROM) language in article 49 is also problematic (too extensive to go into here). At Greece's request they have added 2 amendements stating that they have no claims on neighbouring countries. Still, that is in contradiction with their preample, and it is to their benefit to rewrite those articles to avoid contradictions and vagueries in their Constitution.
No lies on my end, how about you apologise now?
I can see you don't know much at all. You're childish remarks are water off a ducks back. If you can't understand the technical political language that makes up a State constitution there's not much I can do about it. I mean after all, 90% of FYROM have never heard of Google so it makes sense you don't understand the irredentist claims written in the Preamble of your very own constitution. Using foul language doesn't make your argument stronger, on the contrary you yourself come across as the emotionally unstable wreck. :)
did*
@Konstantin Trehagyrevopoulos You are wasting your time bro. Really, go out and do something useful
FYROM / БЮРМ North Monkedonian history is mix of Bulgarian and Greek history
FOUNDER OF FYROM / БЮРМ “NORTH MACEDONIA” IS THE BULGARIAN KHAN KUBERT AND FYROM / БЮРМ "NORTH MACEDONIANS" ARE REAL BULGARIANS!
happiest bulgarian
most educated man in bulgaria XD
true finally
@@someonethatlikesyou7713............
crep .
@@tatjanavelkova5814MACEDONIA IS ONE AND BELONG TO GREECE 🇬🇷
Imagine the wester part of Afghanistan becomes independent and then call itself Persia, with schools and stadium and squares called Darius the Great etc... how would Iran feel about it? Isn't that stealing an identity of another country and culture? Even tho Afghanistan used to be part of Persian Empire. Im with Greece on this one.
What about Egypt
Don't care. The name of "FYROM" is already settled in English. Everybody calls it "Macedonia". Nobody cares about the history, that people in Macedonia are essentially South-Eastern Serbo-Croats, we just need a name for the piece of land that English speakers agree on, no matter how much Greeks flip out over it. Yes it's cultural appropriation. We don't care.
with the only difference that Western Afghanistan still speaks Persian language and cheerishes their heritage while Slavs from Fyrom hate Greek communities , changed their names and erased their culture.
Ancient Macedonia was considered as Greece
Ancient Macedonia existed but there was no such thing named as Greece in the ancient
OMG A VIDEO!
now i have to wait another season...
All South part of North Monkedonia FYROM Vardarska Banovina belongs to Greece , should give it back
THE MOTTO OF OUR REEK ARMY:
Never leave your buddy’s behind
Bulgaria called,you’d understand them so take the call
Never leave a d*ck behind
Macedonians are a Hellenic people group according to the Australian educational system in NSW
ofc they dont... we just speak greek because it was sooooo soooo useful to speak greek during the ottoman period... it opened so many doors... you can see how much the turks respected the greek culture in anatolia, from the millions of greeks that still live there for more than 3 milleniums right now... oh wait...
Hail Giratina The true god then do you think that these Slavs are actually the ancestors of Alexander the great???
and what australia know on the matter stupid
@@stasko21 NO WAY!!!
@J M FIRST OF ALL U DONT KNOW HOW TO WRITE ENGLISH GO BACK TO UR MONKEYDONIAN SCHOOL TO START ALLOVER AGAIN..IGNORANT IDIOT!!!
Well I live in F.Y.R.O.M (even though my dad is Greek and my mom is from Bosna) but I honestly really do believe we are being fed propaganda in school. We have books that claim we are "Macedonian" but I honestly don't believe that. I don't get why we (or they I don't really know if I should put myself with them). The people are slavs and I don't know why they are ashamed of it? Like being a slav is very cool! And yes ever since they immigrated to the Balkan the people always wanted Independence and they were slaughtered and pushed around for a very long time but the current government isn't being progressive! If they just admit they are slavs then future generations can finally come together and help each other!! Slav "Macedonians" do have they're own history (even if it's very short) bit they have their own folk dances and traditions and shouldn't rip off the Greeks!
(I'm out)
@Ellie Sunrise
Well from a greek point of view,i know that skopje is of slavic origin,however you guys lived in the territory of ancient macedonia for over 1000 years,and im well aware of the cleansings greeks did to the region in the 19th century in order to shift demographics to greek majority.
Even if you guys get to be called macedons,that wouldnt change history books anywhere so i dont get why my fellow greeks take such an issue. The whole world knows the origins of alexander,phillip 2nd etc... And still i have an issue with the name macedonia being used by you guys for some reason!
Im in disaggreement with myself,but i do hope we end up friends in the near future
Turgon92
You really have too little knowledge yet too much opinion. The Slavic speaking Macedonians have nothing to do with today's FYROM supposed ''Macedonian nationality'' except that they left Greece after the civil war as political refugees along with other Greek-speaking macedonian communists when Yugoslavia offered them an escape. There are still even today Slavomacedonians inhabiting Greece, and they feel Greeks. The Slavic speaking macedonians were nothing more than Greeks who just changed their language to Bulgaric during the Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia during the Middle ages. They also fought with the Greek gorillas during the Macedonian war in 1904-1908 as well as during the Balkan wars. The reason the Greek state did not recognise them was mostly religious one, since they belonged to the autocephalous church of Bulgaria while the Greek church was claimed by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, and also because most of them supported the communist party. You can blame the Greek state for not recognising them as Greek citizens, but to speak about ''ethnic cleansing'' is a sign of complete ignorance about history, since there never was any ''Macedonian ethnic identity'', except the one Tito created in order to disinherit them from Bulgarian claims. This pseudostate that dares to claim our Greek Macedonian identity is nothing but an artificial creation of the Yugoslavian dictator.
Ellie Sunrise at least someone is pointing out facts and propaganda
@jimakisspd
Surely alot of greeks changed their language to bulgaric-as im sure are the origins of many of today's turks-,but you cant claim all of skopje are 'turned' greeks can you? Most of them are of slavic origin,whether they feel greek or not. I dont say that condescendingly btw.
When i spoke about ethnic cleansing-an idiotic term i admit-i didnt mean our anscestors had genocidal intentions,but they did drive the people of slavic origin(i never said 'macedonian ethnic identity') from their homes by force,that is a fact. A bad one for us,yet a fact not to be denied. An example i learned only recently,Kilkis was a slavic-majority town back then.
And lets face it,they arent claiming anything from us. All of the west reffers to them as "republic of macedonia" in the last 10 years,yet they all know that alexander was greek. Hell even the skopjans know that,part from their bitch ass nationalists. And even if they were-which they arent-they cant do much about it now can they?
Σορρυ δεν καταλαβα οτι εισαι Ελληνας. :P
I was mostly reffering to the slavic-speaking macedonians back then and not to those that inhabit FYROM , which is a multicultural reigion today. You are right that had happened against the Slavic-speaking macedonians in the regions by the greek goverment, but that had more to do with political motivations rather than nationalist ones.
As for whether they claim something from us, you can see what they discuss in their forums and how they brainwash their children that their ''real borders'' reach until Larisa. And never say never, if the West supports them too much and betrays us, like they have done in the past(and I am sure you know it), they will certainly claim much more than they do now with the name!!
The banana republic of FYROM🇲🇰Vardarska Banovina is one of the poorest countries in Europe.
🇲🇰🇲🇰 Poor Poor Poorski
Abdul Mehmet Hassan,typical Fyromian dude.
It's not just a name. The people of FYROM claim the Greek history. They claim a part of the Greek civilization. They teach their kids in school and home (or brainwash one should say), that they are the true desendants of the ancient Macedonian Kingdom, that the ancient Macedonian Kingdom was not Greek, but ancient slavic and Albanian (all lies, it is undisputably Greek), and such... Their new generations the last 25 years have been raised with these lies due to their ethnicism. That's why we can't solve the problem. Because they claim our history, it is not the name, but behind the name lies a whole history... And just to know, Macedonia is linguistically a Greek word!!
In case you didn't understand by his/her name, he/she is Greek you idiot!!
Yes, I am (a proud) Greek :)
Logan IceGlare /Λόγκαν Λάμση Παγετού Γειά σου ρε πατρίδα!!
Macedonia is Greece.We dont care what they say.God is with us.Athens,Sparta Macedonia Corinth,Thebes,Eretria, Chalcis etc was greek city-states
For the fake country of new world order, the new Monkeydonia or x country of Υugοslavia that their name was Vardaska is so fake that nothing can stand.
th-cam.com/video/a1-uBUo0UQ8/w-d-xo.html&ytbChannel=Christos%20Kastamonitis
Even bible saying the truth about Greek macedonia.Not only the history.I am saying that for Cristian people and special for the fake country of Monkeydonia because the are Cristian Orthodox.
Prophet Daniel 11
Now then, I tell you the truth:
Three more kings will arise in Persia, and then a fourth, who will be
far richer than all the others. When he has gained power by his wealth,
he will stir up everyone against the kingdom of Greece. 3 Then a mighty king will arise, who will rule with great power and do as he pleases.(Alexander the Great) 4 After he has arisen, his empire will be broken up and parceled out toward the four winds of heaven. It will not go to his descendants, nor will it have the power he exercised, because his empire will be uprooted and given to others. All bible and all history full of proves!
FAKE COUNTRY FAKE RELIGION THEIR NAME IS MONKEYDONIA OF NEW WORD ORDER.THE ONLY NAME THEY CAN HAVE IS "ABOVE THE REAL GREEK MACEDONIA"
Its better for them if they love lies to change religion,to be something else except Cristian.Our prophets, as elder paisios said that this fake country of mankeydonia will break.Just watch.......
Green Lantern Any argument ?
I don't think so
A question to our Slavic "Macedonian" neighbors. When you visit the Macedonian ancient ruins in your country... can you read the inscriptions?
Why can't you, while i'm Greek and I can?
@ George Bethanis.I am sorry but that is a load of nonsense .Do you know in what language wrote the great Homer or even Plato?Well if you do your homework you will find out its not so clear and simple as one would suppose so.It is actually a very interesting topic and I kindly recommend to do some research on that.
@@fartmanmk DO U KNOW IN WHAT LANGUAGE HOMER WROTE..BECAUSE THEY STILL TEACH HOMER IN GREEK SCHOOLS..NOT IN FAKE MONKEYDONIA!!
@@fartmanmk Well... we do ancient Greek for years in Greek public school, junior high and high school. We all read the ancient Greek texts of Herodotus, Plato, Aristotle, Homer especially and many more. We all read and understand ancient Greek. Can you? No of course, because you speak Bulgarian.
@@fartmanmk Most Greeks can. Ancient Greek and Modern Greek aren't that far off. Even if the meanings of some words have changed, some words have been preserved LETTER FOR LETTER, and therefore can be read by a modern day Greek person.
Not to mention that Ancient Greek is regularly taught in Greek schools.
@@ph9692 MONKEYDONIA ? ?
guska @.
Thanks for stating the obvious that ancient macedonia was greek
Tatars
I know cultural appropriation is a bit of meme but this actually feels like it’s a appropriate description of the FYRM claiming people like Alexander the Great which are without doubt Greek
worldsbestskiinstructor
Dr David Gordon Mitten, Dr James Loeb, Professors of Classical Art and Archaeology, *Harvard* University
_"...We do not understand how the modern inhabitants of ancient _*_Paeonia_*_ ( the region the 1991 self-declared Republic of "Macedonia" is settled ), who speak Slavic - a language _*_and people introduced into the Balkans about a millennium after the death of Alexander_*_ - can claim him as their national hero. Alexander the Great was thoroughly and indisputably Greek..."_
@worldsbestskiinstructor
That's a nice propaganda youtube channel with nice video series full of propaganda lies, and arguments based on information taken out of context. That channel does not even allow commentary to let people counter argue those fake claims. There is no historian in this world backing up FYROM's claims about their lies. "FYROM" is distorting history.
worldsbestskiinstructor imagine being such a irrelevant group of people that you that you have to steal another group of people’s culture this is basically “we wuz kangs” Slav Edition.
Same can be applied to modern Greeks who claim ancient Hellenic world for them self
I think Vardar would be a beautiful name on the country! And also a historically correct one.
Macedonia actually can only be in Greece, Sorry.
(PS I'm not Greek in any way, just a history nerd)
Greetings from Scandinavia
P R ever heard Serbian being called Dunav? Montenegrins being called Zeta? Nope. Those are river names and geography regions, never population or state names.
Also your "history arguments" are silly. Learn basic human rights and right of self-determination.
C O
FYROM is settled on *Paeonia,* not in Macedonia, and you're Slavs not descendants of the macedonians.
1.
Dr David Gordon Mitten, Dr James Loeb, Professors of Classical Art and Archaeology, *Harvard* University
_"...We do not understand how the modern inhabitants of ancient _*_Paeonia_*_ ( the region the 1991 self-declared Republic of "Macedonia" is settled ), who speak Slavic - a language _*_and people introduced into the Balkans about a millennium after the death of Alexander_*_ - can claim him as their national hero. Alexander the Great was thoroughly and indisputably Greek..."_
2.
Eugene Borza, Historian, Penn University, "Macedonian Redux"
_"... _*_Modern Slavs, both from the_*_ Former Yug. Rep. of Macedonia and Bulgarians _*_cannot_*_ establish a link with antiquity, in contrast with the Greeks. The Slavs entered the Balkans _*_10 centuries after_*_ the demise of the Ancient Kingdom of Alexander. Only the most radical nationalists Slavic emigres from the US, Canada and Australia even attempt to establish a link with antiquity..."_
@@franknwalters Problem whit this is Paeonia is northern region of Balkans(today Serbia).
Though hellenic, Macedonia wasn't accepted by other greeks until Macedonia conquered them. Alexander was certainly a philhellene and he spread greek culture everywhere but he did it under the banner of MACEDON, not "Greece".
Let me also state that we slavic Macedonians have little to do with any of that, but the greeks and bulgarians who insist that we are a non existent entity can go fuck themselves. These half slavic/half paleobalkan people that these assholes are calling "skopian fyromian brainwashed bulgar history thieves" have taken on the identity of "Macedonians" for at least 1500 years.
And if the Bulgars want any evidence of this, they can take a good look at their own medieval coat of arms with those 3 golden Lions (each one corresponding to a regional identity that was annexed by the 2nd bulgarian kingdom): The lion of Moesia on the left, the lion of Thrace on the Right and both are holding up the lion of MACEDONIA in the middle.
The greeks squawking and whining about macedonian identity is a relatively modern phenomenon and one that is mostly guided by jingoism and antislavic hatred...so with all due respect, my scandinavian friend...kindly take your greek approved name suggestion and shove it up your pretty white ass.
Exactly right! (Or all of fyrom/vardar gets merged with Greece.)
come on dude, this serbian village want named macedonia,this is just joke
big nations want cut greece into pieces as they do in yugoslavia,no we ll never accept this
Greece and Greeks are right in Macedonia dispute.
Nationalist and far-right Southern Slav Macedonians claim that they're descendants of ancient Kingdom of Macedonia, but also Alexander the Great 'Megas Alexandros', but it is not true. Because Kingdom of Macedonia was active between 808 B.C.-168 B.C. and South Slavs came to the Balkans in 6th century A.D. so it is impossible to say that they're descendants of ancient Kingdom of Macedonia, but also Alexander the Great. Macedonia is a Ancient Hellenic word which was derived form makednos which means the high/tall one in Ancient Greek language. Alexander the Great was a Greek nationalist and he wanted to unified Greece and he succeeded it. After the death of Alexander the Great in Babylon in 323 B.C. Kingdom of Macedonia was divided into three kingdoms. These three kingdoms were Antigonid Kingdom, Seleucid Empire and Ptolemaic Kingdom. Besides that Hellenistic Period was started after death of Alexander the Great and it was continued until the Battle of Actium in 31 B.C. Alexander the Great founded Alexandria in 332 or 331 B.C. and after that Alexandria became the new center of Greek world. He also spreaded Koine Greek dialect and this dialect was the common dialect of Greeks during Hellenistic period, Roman Empire and early Byzantine times. This dialect was also the common dialect within the armies of Alexander the Great. Alexander the Great's favourite novel was Iliad which was written by Homer and he kept a copy of Iliad under his pillow. Nationalist and far-right Southern Slav Macedonians use the ancient Macedonia name for describing their country and they also use ancient Macedonian identity for their identity, that's why ignorant persons think that they are right in Macedonia dispute. Besides that the first flag of North Macedonia which was used between 1991-1995 was actually the flag Kingdom of Macedonia, but Nationalist Southern Slav Macedonians changed the colour of this flag from blue to red. This flag also included Vergina Sun which is a rayed solar symbol first appearing in Greek art of the period between 6th and 2th centuries B.C. and it was the symbol of Kingdom of Macedonia. Kiro Giligorov who was the first president of North Macedonia said 'We are Southern Slavs who came to the Balkans in 6th century A.D. so we are not the descedants of Ancient Macedonians and Alexander the Great. We have no ties between ancient Kingdom of Macedonia and Alexander the Great.
I can totally understand why someone from the Republic might be attached to the name, but for them to imagine they are the Macedonians of ancient history and expect the actual Macedonians to go along with it is, to me, as absurd as Mormon missionaries trying to convince native Americans they are the descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.
Agreed. It's revisionist, expansionist nonsense.
Encyclopedia of World Geography, Volume 1, 2006, p.564: “[FYRO]Macedonian nationalism, as distinct *from other South Slavic* peoples is, moreover, a relatively new concept, *introduced and encouraged by dictator Josip Tito,* upon *the creation of a separate Macedonian Republic within the Yugoslav federation in 1946.* Prior to this, the area generally known as *Vardarska banovina* (_the district of the Vardar river_) was considered simply an extension of its southern Slavic neighbors, either Serbians to the north, or Bulgarians to the east. Slavs arrived in the Balkan Peninsula only in the 6th century AD, and therefore *have nothing to do with the well-known classical kingdom of Macedonia, which dominated the rest of Greece,* the Near East, Egypt and Persia under Alexander the Great in the 4th century BCE.”
Slavic language arrived in the 6th century AD. Obviously Macedonians are partly descendants of Ancient Macedonians just like Greeks and many other people in the world are.
No, they are not! FYROMians are Slavs and they cluster together with the Bulgarians and are close to Serbs and Croats. (Journal of Human Genetics 52, 2007, "Y-STR variation among Slavs: evidence for the Slavic homeland in the middle Dnieper basin", Krzysztof Rębała, Alexei I. Mikulich, Iosif S. Tsybovsky, Daniela Siváková, Zuzana Džupinková, Aneta Szczerkowska-Dobosz, Zofia Szczerkowska,
www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v52/n5/pdf/jhg200754a.pdf )
FROM MACEDONIA FOR MACEDONIA
Prof. Miroslav Grcev, Member of the FYRMacedonian government, Live on Camera, Nov.2017
_"...The "Macedonian" State was _*_literally invented_*_ during the end of the WW2 (1945) within Yugoslavia. In this framework _*_for the first time in history_*_ the 'macedonian' _*_nation,_*_ the 'macedonian' _*_culture,_*_ the 'macedonian' _*_language,_*_ the 'macedonian' _*_history_*_ and the 'macedonian' symbols _*_were also invented and emancipated._*_ Today this (historical truth) is forbidden. And nowadays, on almost a national level as a society, we are in a very backwards and horrible process of self-annihilation, placing ourselves in the prenatal period of Macedonia..."_
When you’re about to go to bed but WonderWhy posts a video.
Tawny Prince yep. Then you drop everything and watch.
Tawny Prince I woke up a few minutes ago.
There is no Macedonian language , there is only Bulgarian language with different dialects ! The language of Ancient Macedonians was Greek
Albainan langue? You forget the Albania language my friend 🙌
bro you dont know history. Goce Delchev is macedonian and you Bulgarians stole our language.
Did someone ask you? Bulgarians=Macedonians+Tatars
@@sportslegacy11 bulgarians = DIBECI .
@@sportslegacy11 you = govedo .
Throughout the Middle Ages and up until the early 20th century the Slavic speaking majority in the Region of Macedonia was more commonly referred to (both, by themselves and outsiders) as Bulgarians.
Both by themselves?
If you want to smear something, you are stooping so low, because you probably cannot make up an intellectual argument - of which there are plenty that should be considered, but you don’t have that capacity so you resort to commenting crap.
You’re not worth arguing with, I don’t think you can grasp complex issues, like a child sort of. Sorry, you’re not credible enough to pay attention to.
Credibility is in the eye of the beholder when even your own ministers in Skopje agree upon the fact that you where bulgarians before 1944..During Yogoslavia time it was done a lot to wash the brain on the Bulgarians of Macedonia. The French scientist proved few years ago that Macedonia speak a BULGARIAN DIALECT. I personally do not mind if Macedonia wants to be independent but they are stealing Bulgarian and Greek hystory and identity which is a shame. ..
@@Peterkonto Credibility is in the eye of the beholder? What a statement, review it, go over it, reevaluate it.... Think about what you said, then come back.
@@filipvelkov6829 ..It means the perception of truth is subjective, only on your behalf who deny your slavic middle age history in the Balkans but would rather place yourselfs with the ancient Macedonian dynasty that has nothing whatsoever to do with slavic history or it's slavic people that entered the Balkans in the 6th century after the demise of the ancient macedonians..
@ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ is МАКЕДОНИЈА You are NOT Macedonian you are Bulgarian
Macedonia is Greece
FYROM - North Macedonia is Bulgarian
"Carte ethnigraphique de la Turquie d'Europe et des etats vassaux autonomes" Guillaume Lejean, 1861
i.imgur.com/3yQhTdZ.jpg
"Этнографическая карта славянскихь народностей" Михаил Ф. Миркович, 1867
i.imgur.com/eOxyx7x.jpg
"The Turks, the Greeks and the Slavons. Travels in the Slavonic Provinces of Turkey-in-Europe" G. Muir Mackenzie and A. P. Irby, London, 1867
i.imgur.com/vVNEMA9.jpg
"Мара Slovanskègo Svèta" Karel Jaromir Erben, 1868
i.imgur.com/jH8TeHF.jpg
"Nouvelle Géographie Universelle" Élisée Reclus, 1876
i.imgur.com/T1wkC7o.jpg
"Ethnographische Übersicht des europäischen Orients / zusammengestellt" H. Kiepert, Berlin, im Mai 1876
i.imgur.com/NnDyK49.jpg
"Carte Ethnographique de la Turquie d'Europe" A. Synvet, 1877
i.imgur.com/NPN3Sbm.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte der der Europäischen Türkei und ihrer Dependenzen zu Anfang des Jahres" Carl Sax, 1877
i.imgur.com/78KmjLy.jpg
"Ethnographical Map of Turkey in Europe" Ernst Ravenstein, 1880
i.imgur.com/JaTn2Yb.jpg
"Peoples at the Balkan Peninsula" Andrees Allgemeiner Handatlas, 1st Edition, Leipzig, 1881
i.imgur.com/Ns38Klw.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte der sudwestlichen Balkanhalbinsel" Dr Gustav Weigand. Leipzig, 1890
i.imgur.com/5ea8vh4.jpg
"Карта Славянскихь Народностей" Н. С. Зарянко, Санкт Петербург, 1890
i.imgur.com/mK7q7Go.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte von Makedonien, Deutsche Rundschau für Geographie und Statistik Bd. XXI" Friedrich Meinhard, 1899
i.imgur.com/9BCwlQt.jpg
"Populations de la peninsule des Balkans, Institut Geographique de Paris" Ch. Delagrave, 1899
i.imgur.com/rYyEOwn.jpg
"Narodopisna mapa Slovanstva, Slovanské starožitnosti" Lubor Niderle, 1902
i.imgur.com/dDZ5ovH.jpg
----------------
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitola_inscription
"In the year 6523 since the creation of the world [1015/1016? CE], this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria"
"This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria"
----------------
www.britannica.com/topic/Internal-Macedonian-Revolutionary-Organization
"IMRO was founded in 1893 in Thessaloníki; its early leaders included Damyan Gruev, Gotsé Delchev, and Yane Sandanski, men who had a Macedonian regional identity and a Bulgarian national identity. "
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=ZmesOn_HhfEC&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q&f=false
“The interwar Serbian (and later Yugoslav) government attempted quite unsuccessfully to “Serbianize” the Slavs of Yugoslav Macedonia, who generally defined themselves as Bulgarians, but who were officially referred to as South Serbs by the Yugoslav government.”
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loring_Danforth
----------------
www.scribd.com/document/61993141/History-of-the-Balkans-Vol-2-Twentieth-Century-the-Joint-Committee-on-Eastern-Europe-Publication-Series-No-12
Page 103 in pdf/91 in book :
"However, in the nineteenth century the term Macedonian was used almost exclusively to refer to the geographic region; the Macedonians were usually not considered a nationality separate from the Bulgarians, Greeks, Serbs, or Albanians. The diplomatic records of the period make no clear mention of a separate Macedonian nation. At the time of the Constantinople conference of 1876 and the Congress of Berlin, as we have seen, the represen-tatives of the great powers considered the region to be of an extremely mixed ethnic composition, but predominantly Bulgarian."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jelavich
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=48NyoQdOWH0C&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false
"In interviews with elderly Vlah-speakers, I was told that their language has no way to distinguish "Macedonian" and "Bulgarian" as ethnic terms, using v'rg'ri to translate both. The term has a clear etymological connection with Bulgar, and this upsets younger people who have grown up in Yugoslav or post-Yugoslav Macedonia, where the difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian became a matter of concern."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Brown_(linguist)
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=-7TgkO8utHIC&lpg=PP13&ots=en&pg=PA236#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Up until the early twentieth century, the international community viewed Macedonians as a regional variety of Bulgarians, i.e. Western Bulgarians. However, during the Paris Peace Conference of 1919 the Allies sanctioned Serbian control of much of Macedonia because they accepted the belief that Macedonians were in fact Southern Serbs. This extraordinary change in opinion can largely be attributed to one man, Jovan Cvijić, a prominent geographer at the University of Belgrade."
Author - www.researchgate.net/profile/George_White8
----------------
humstatic.uchicago.edu/mahimahi/media/faculty/vfriedm/164Friedman01.pdf
"The authors of this period(1794-1840) in both Macedonia and Bulgaria called their vernacular language "Bulgarian"."
- in the 2nd page of the pdf at the end of paragraph (1).
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Friedman
----------------
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Macedonian_Matters
"Za makedonckite raboti (Cyrillic script: За македонцките работи, English translation: On Macedonian Matters) is a book written by Krste Misirkov and published in 1903 in Sofia, Bulgaria. The book presents the author's views towards the Macedonian Question, and explores the sense of national belonging and nеed for affirmation of the Macedonians as a separate people. The book marked the first complete outline of the Macedonian language as a separate and proposed the need for its codification."
books.google.com/books?id=ZmesOn_HhfEC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA63#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Finally, Krste Misirkov, who had clearly developed a strong sense of his own personal national identity as a Macedonian and who outspokenly and unambiguously called for Macedonian linguistic and national separatism, acknowledged that a 'Macedonian' national identity was a relatively recent historical development. In On Macedonian Matters, published in 1903, Misirkov, referring to himself and other Slavs of Macedonia in the first person plural, admits repeatedly that "our fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians" and that "in the past we have even called ourselves Bulgarians" (1974:27, 150)."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loring_Danforth
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=Y0NBxG9Id58C&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA37&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Until the late 19th century both outside observers and those Bulgaro-Macedonians who had an ethnic consciousness believed that their group, which is now two separate nationalities, comprised a single people, the Bulgarians. Thus the reader should ignore references to ethnic Macedonians in the Middle ages which appear in some modern works. In the Middle Ages and into the 19th century, the term 'Macedonian' was used entirely in reference to a geographical region. Anyone who lived within its confines, regardless of nationality could be called a Macedonian. Nevertheless, the absence of a national consciousness in the past is no grounds to reject the Macedonians as a nationality today."
Author - lsa.umich.edu/history/people/emeritus/jvafine.html
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=bSxHgej4tKMC&printsec=frontcover&hl=en&pg=PA431#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Macedonian was not distinguished from Bulgarian for most of its history. Constantine and Methodius came from Macedonian Thessaloniki; their old Bulgarian is therefore at the same time 'Old Macedonian'. No Macedonian literature dates from earlier than the nineteenth century, when a nationalist movement came to the fore and a literacy language was established, first written with Greek letters, then in Cyrillic. From the point of view of Bulgaria, Macedonian is simply a west Bulgarian dialect."
Author - lsa.umich.edu/classics/people/departmental-faculty/fortsonb.html
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=MZcCA4hkwscC&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA189#v=onepage&q&f=false
“What made Parlichev adopt the Bulgarian nationalist cause was the fate of the Miladinov brothers, one of whom had been his Greek teacher at school in Ohrid. In 1861 the brothers had published a collection of Bulgarian Macedonian songs in Zagreb, dedicated to Joseph Strossmayer, Catholic bishop of Diakovar[Djakovo], who was an active supporter of the pan-Slavist movement.”
Author - oxford.academia.edu/PeterMackridge
----------------
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_the_International_Commission_on_the_Balkan_Wars
"The International Commission consisted of university professors and other prominent individuals from France, Great Britain, United States, Germany, Austria and Russia. Among the members of the Commission there were three Nobel Prize winners.[1]"
archive.org/details/reportofinternat00inteuoft/page/50/mode/2up
The most important part is between pages 50 and 57.
In Bulgaria we have a saying about these jokers of FYROM: Don't play chess with a FYR Macedonian! He will steal your king.
Dim Dim hi from Thessaloniki. I visited your capital Sofia 6 years ago. It is a beautifull city. I visited the museum of natural history. Also in one central square there are tables from rock as chess boards .And many Bulgarians play chess there.But instead of chess I played backgammon and I really enjoyed.Thanks.
You Bulgarians usually call us by our constitutional name. Why commenting FYROM all the sudden? To please the Greeks?
Dac DT - How to make a distinction between Bulgarian Macedonian, Greek Macedonian and FYR Macedonian? This is why you need a new name that will distinguish the name of your country from the geographical region of Macedonia.
Dim Dim What's wrong with the name Republic of Macedonia? In our constitution it's written Republic of Macedonia.
What is wrong with Republic of Vardar Macedonia or Vardar Macedonia? We need to distinguish the name of the country from the name of the geographical region.
Why not call the Vardar Republic instead of FYROM?
thats something every reasonable person should ask , they can use the name they had before WW2.
Because nobody uses "Vardar Republic" or "FYROM", everybody just calls it "Macedonia".
worldsbestskiinstructor
Liupco Georgievski, FYROM's former Prime Minister, Live on camera (Al Jazeera), Dec.2015
_"...We here [in my country] we are _*_champions in the forgerying of History._*_ We don't just _*_forger_*_ the last _*_25_*_ years of our History; we've gone this far as to _*_forger_*_ the _*_entire_*_ history of the [ancient] Macedonians. _*_We know_*_ that we are Slavs and our language is Slavic. Today if you look at our _*_new history_*_ and open a book in the first grade, you will see that it writes that we have _*_nothing_*_ to do with the Slavs anymore. We don't belong to any group of people, we are unique. _*_Our language_*_ is also not Slavic, although we understand each other [with the other Slavs] perfectly. I call this History of ours a _*_funny History_*_ .."_
Of course Vardarska Makedonia as our part was always called!
because there is no prestige in that..
FYROM is a Slavic country and NOT Macedonia.MACEDONIA is GREECE.
"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" - Kiro Gligorov, FYROM's first President, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992
enaskanenas1
Aegean Macedonia is Macedonia
The rest of G@ylada is Shiptarija.
Greece had a German king called King Otto but when he went to Greece, all he saw was Shiptari and said, and I quote: "Where are all the Greek's?, There are just Shiptari here".
King Otto of Greece.
@@hunter9134 Aha more quotes from the Gruevski printing press......................Hahahahaha!!!!!!
enaskanenas1
Not only that but North Macedonia was never Macedonia in its history. The name Macedonia was copied from the Greeks (Its a Greek name and means high-lands' in Greek) by Marshall Tito in 1944 to name his newly created Republic originally called Vardar Banovin when his intention was to annex the northern Greek region of Macedonia.
@Jd Pv Fakedonians should claim their real Bulgar history in Mongolia, where they came from.
@Jd Pv what's your business with Herodotus, Mongol?
The two prevailing languages of the FYROM are Burgarian (Macedonian) and Albanian.
Which of those two languages Philip the second of Alexander the Great spoke?
Please advice
Makedonski,obviously.
Philip and Alexander both spoke greek, Bulgarian is a Slavic language that came from the cyrilic alphabet abou 1100 years after Alexander the Greats death,albanian was kinda spoken by the ilirians the neighbors of Kingdom of Macedonia.If you want proof that Philip and Alexander spoke greek you need to know that Alexander the Great was taught by Aristotle arguably the greatest mind of greece.I hope I've helped you have a nice rest of your life
Greek
@@deathmax1018 ALEXANDER and FILIP ARE MACEDONIANS.
enjoy ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 ALEXANDER and FILIP were GREEK Macedonians not BULGARIANS AS YOU ENJOY BULGARIAN TROLL !!!
This would be as hilarious as Mongolia suddenly rename themselves as the "Yuan Dynasty" and start to claim Beijing as its spiritual capital.
Macedonians are not Greeks as Greeks was considering themselves bigger Romans the Romans it selves!
@@janeza382moron
@@janeza382you are confusing whole eras with each other
@@janeza382 EVERY GOOD !!! Tatjana from MAKEDONIJA
@@tatjanavelkova5814 BULGARIAN TROLL !!
Call your country West Bulgaria problem solved! Don’t steal other people’s culture and history
worldsbestskiinstructor
Liupco Georgievski, FYROM's former Prime Minister, Live on camera (Al Jazeera), Dec.2015
_"...We here [in my country] we are _*_champions in the forgerying of History._*_ We don't just _*_forger_*_ the last _*_25_*_ years of our History; we've gone this far as to _*_forger_*_ the _*_entire_*_ history of the [ancient] Macedonians. _*_We know_*_ that we are Slavs and our language is Slavic. Today if you look at our _*_new history_*_ and open a book in the first grade, you will see that it writes that we have _*_nothing_*_ to do with the Slavs anymore. We don't belong to any group of people, we are unique. _*_Our language_*_ is also not Slavic, although we understand each other [with the other Slavs] perfectly. I call this History of ours a _*_funny History_*_ .."_
Well said. Encyclopedia of World Geography, Volume 1, 2006, p.564: “[FYRO]Macedonian nationalism, as distinct *from other South Slavic* peoples is, moreover, a relatively new concept, *introduced and encouraged by dictator Josip Tito,* upon *the creation of a separate Macedonian Republic within the Yugoslav federation in 1946.* Prior to this, the area generally known as *Vardarska banovina* (the district of the Vardar river) was considered simply an extension of its southern Slavic neighbors, either Serbians to the north, or Bulgarians to the east. Slavs arrived in the Balkan Peninsula only in the 6th century AD, and therefore *have nothing to do with the well-known classical kingdom of Macedonia, which dominated the rest of Greece,* the Near East, Egypt and Persia under Alexander the Great in the 4th century BCE.”
worldsbestskiinstructor you guys are Bulgarians if a duck looks like duck sounds like a duck it is a duck!
worldsbestskiinstructor Tito invented your fake identity cuz he didn’t want Bulgaria to have a claim on your country’s land cuz you guys r the same people. Just admit that you are Bulgarians.
Fox News of Usa "Goodbye Alexander the Great: Skopje's airport renamed. Turkish consortium TAV, which operates the airport, removed the three-meter (10-foot) letters spelling out the name of the ancient warrior king in February, replacing them Tuesday with the words "Skopje International Airport."
www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04/03/goodbye-alexander-great-skopjes-airport-renamed.html
May Kutub al-Sittah open your eyes,Fyromians!
On January 15, 1992 Bulgaria was the first country to recognize the independence of the then-Republic of Macedonia. Bulgaria has however refused to recognise the existence of a separate ethnic Macedonian nation and a separate Macedonian language. It argues that the ethnic Macedonians are a subgroup of the Bulgarian nation, and that the Macedonian language is a Bulgarian dialect.
According to historian Eugene N. Borza, the Macedonians, who are a recently emergent people and have had no history, are in search of their past. This search is an attempt to help legitimize their unsure present, surviving in the disorder of Balkan politics. Anthropologist Ivaylo Dichev claims that the Macedonian historiography has the impossible task of filling in the huge gaps between the ancient kingdom of Macedon that collapsed in the 2nd century BC, the 10th-11th century state of the Cometopuli, and Yugoslav Macedonia, established in the middle of the 20th century. Despite the myths of national purity and continuity that came to dominate the official Macedonian historiography, something not unusual for the Balkan region, Ipek Yosmaoglu affirms there is not much to be gained from a search for a Macedonian national lineage, because the Macedonian nationhood was shaped mainly in the decades following World War II.
@ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ is МАКЕДОНИЈА You are NOT Macedonian you are Bulgarian
Macedonia is Greece
FYROM - North Macedonia is Bulgarian
"Carte ethnigraphique de la Turquie d'Europe et des etats vassaux autonomes" Guillaume Lejean, 1861
i.imgur.com/3yQhTdZ.jpg
"Этнографическая карта славянскихь народностей" Михаил Ф. Миркович, 1867
i.imgur.com/eOxyx7x.jpg
"The Turks, the Greeks and the Slavons. Travels in the Slavonic Provinces of Turkey-in-Europe" G. Muir Mackenzie and A. P. Irby, London, 1867
i.imgur.com/vVNEMA9.jpg
"Мара Slovanskègo Svèta" Karel Jaromir Erben, 1868
i.imgur.com/jH8TeHF.jpg
"Nouvelle Géographie Universelle" Élisée Reclus, 1876
i.imgur.com/T1wkC7o.jpg
"Ethnographische Übersicht des europäischen Orients / zusammengestellt" H. Kiepert, Berlin, im Mai 1876
i.imgur.com/NnDyK49.jpg
"Carte Ethnographique de la Turquie d'Europe" A. Synvet, 1877
i.imgur.com/NPN3Sbm.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte der der Europäischen Türkei und ihrer Dependenzen zu Anfang des Jahres" Carl Sax, 1877
i.imgur.com/78KmjLy.jpg
"Ethnographical Map of Turkey in Europe" Ernst Ravenstein, 1880
i.imgur.com/JaTn2Yb.jpg
"Peoples at the Balkan Peninsula" Andrees Allgemeiner Handatlas, 1st Edition, Leipzig, 1881
i.imgur.com/Ns38Klw.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte der sudwestlichen Balkanhalbinsel" Dr Gustav Weigand. Leipzig, 1890
i.imgur.com/5ea8vh4.jpg
"Карта Славянскихь Народностей" Н. С. Зарянко, Санкт Петербург, 1890
i.imgur.com/mK7q7Go.jpg
"Ethnographische Karte von Makedonien, Deutsche Rundschau für Geographie und Statistik Bd. XXI" Friedrich Meinhard, 1899
i.imgur.com/9BCwlQt.jpg
"Populations de la peninsule des Balkans, Institut Geographique de Paris" Ch. Delagrave, 1899
i.imgur.com/rYyEOwn.jpg
"Narodopisna mapa Slovanstva, Slovanské starožitnosti" Lubor Niderle, 1902
i.imgur.com/dDZ5ovH.jpg
----------------
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitola_inscription
"In the year 6523 since the creation of the world [1015/1016? CE], this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria"
"This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria"
----------------
www.britannica.com/topic/Internal-Macedonian-Revolutionary-Organization
"IMRO was founded in 1893 in Thessaloníki; its early leaders included Damyan Gruev, Gotsé Delchev, and Yane Sandanski, men who had a Macedonian regional identity and a Bulgarian national identity. "
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=ZmesOn_HhfEC&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q&f=false
“The interwar Serbian (and later Yugoslav) government attempted quite unsuccessfully to “Serbianize” the Slavs of Yugoslav Macedonia, who generally defined themselves as Bulgarians, but who were officially referred to as South Serbs by the Yugoslav government.”
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loring_Danforth
----------------
www.scribd.com/document/61993141/History-of-the-Balkans-Vol-2-Twentieth-Century-the-Joint-Committee-on-Eastern-Europe-Publication-Series-No-12
Page 103 in pdf/91 in book :
"However, in the nineteenth century the term Macedonian was used almost exclusively to refer to the geographic region; the Macedonians were usually not considered a nationality separate from the Bulgarians, Greeks, Serbs, or Albanians. The diplomatic records of the period make no clear mention of a separate Macedonian nation. At the time of the Constantinople conference of 1876 and the Congress of Berlin, as we have seen, the represen-tatives of the great powers considered the region to be of an extremely mixed ethnic composition, but predominantly Bulgarian."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jelavich
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=48NyoQdOWH0C&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false
"In interviews with elderly Vlah-speakers, I was told that their language has no way to distinguish "Macedonian" and "Bulgarian" as ethnic terms, using v'rg'ri to translate both. The term has a clear etymological connection with Bulgar, and this upsets younger people who have grown up in Yugoslav or post-Yugoslav Macedonia, where the difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian became a matter of concern."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Brown_(linguist)
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=-7TgkO8utHIC&lpg=PP13&ots=en&pg=PA236#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Up until the early twentieth century, the international community viewed Macedonians as a regional variety of Bulgarians, i.e. Western Bulgarians. However, during the Paris Peace Conference of 1919 the Allies sanctioned Serbian control of much of Macedonia because they accepted the belief that Macedonians were in fact Southern Serbs. This extraordinary change in opinion can largely be attributed to one man, Jovan Cvijić, a prominent geographer at the University of Belgrade."
Author - www.researchgate.net/profile/George_White8
----------------
humstatic.uchicago.edu/mahimahi/media/faculty/vfriedm/164Friedman01.pdf
"The authors of this period(1794-1840) in both Macedonia and Bulgaria called their vernacular language "Bulgarian"."
- in the 2nd page of the pdf at the end of paragraph (1).
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Friedman
----------------
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Macedonian_Matters
"Za makedonckite raboti (Cyrillic script: За македонцките работи, English translation: On Macedonian Matters) is a book written by Krste Misirkov and published in 1903 in Sofia, Bulgaria. The book presents the author's views towards the Macedonian Question, and explores the sense of national belonging and nеed for affirmation of the Macedonians as a separate people. The book marked the first complete outline of the Macedonian language as a separate and proposed the need for its codification."
books.google.com/books?id=ZmesOn_HhfEC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA63#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Finally, Krste Misirkov, who had clearly developed a strong sense of his own personal national identity as a Macedonian and who outspokenly and unambiguously called for Macedonian linguistic and national separatism, acknowledged that a 'Macedonian' national identity was a relatively recent historical development. In On Macedonian Matters, published in 1903, Misirkov, referring to himself and other Slavs of Macedonia in the first person plural, admits repeatedly that "our fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians" and that "in the past we have even called ourselves Bulgarians" (1974:27, 150)."
Author - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loring_Danforth
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=Y0NBxG9Id58C&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA37&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Until the late 19th century both outside observers and those Bulgaro-Macedonians who had an ethnic consciousness believed that their group, which is now two separate nationalities, comprised a single people, the Bulgarians. Thus the reader should ignore references to ethnic Macedonians in the Middle ages which appear in some modern works. In the Middle Ages and into the 19th century, the term 'Macedonian' was used entirely in reference to a geographical region. Anyone who lived within its confines, regardless of nationality could be called a Macedonian. Nevertheless, the absence of a national consciousness in the past is no grounds to reject the Macedonians as a nationality today."
Author - lsa.umich.edu/history/people/emeritus/jvafine.html
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=bSxHgej4tKMC&printsec=frontcover&hl=en&pg=PA431#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Macedonian was not distinguished from Bulgarian for most of its history. Constantine and Methodius came from Macedonian Thessaloniki; their old Bulgarian is therefore at the same time 'Old Macedonian'. No Macedonian literature dates from earlier than the nineteenth century, when a nationalist movement came to the fore and a literacy language was established, first written with Greek letters, then in Cyrillic. From the point of view of Bulgaria, Macedonian is simply a west Bulgarian dialect."
Author - lsa.umich.edu/classics/people/departmental-faculty/fortsonb.html
----------------
books.google.com/books?id=MZcCA4hkwscC&lpg=PP1&hl=en&pg=PA189#v=onepage&q&f=false
“What made Parlichev adopt the Bulgarian nationalist cause was the fate of the Miladinov brothers, one of whom had been his Greek teacher at school in Ohrid. In 1861 the brothers had published a collection of Bulgarian Macedonian songs in Zagreb, dedicated to Joseph Strossmayer, Catholic bishop of Diakovar[Djakovo], who was an active supporter of the pan-Slavist movement.”
Author - oxford.academia.edu/PeterMackridge
----------------
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_the_International_Commission_on_the_Balkan_Wars
"The International Commission consisted of university professors and other prominent individuals from France, Great Britain, United States, Germany, Austria and Russia. Among the members of the Commission there were three Nobel Prize winners.[1]"
archive.org/details/reportofinternat00inteuoft/page/50/mode/2up
The most important part is between pages 50 and 57.
How to start a flame war 101.
jasun calimag Or 100.
Kosovo should and always will be a independent nation.
Whoops. lol
Rubbish, this is 201. 101 (for beginners) is Israel v Palestine or Apple v Android or Musk v the world.
And a very silly one a that.
killercaos123 KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!! U WANNA FIGHT!! 1V1 ME ROBLOX!!
The funny thing is that Bulgaria does not even recognize them as Macedonians and both speak the same language. Albanians within Macedonia also want to be recognized and are denied by the government even their Albanian language. It is landlocked and small economy which Greece is a major investor. Greece is also probably the only country in Balkans to have legally state that it also ensures their neighbours territorial integrity. Bit ironic eh? If issue is not solve, the country will be worse in a decade then it ever was and a growing ethnic Albanian population that will seek to split with Albania in future. Military is non existent, so being part of NATO serves what?. Only Greece and Turkey are massive militaries in the Balkan region. And both hate each others guts. So Greece can technically let Macedonia implode internally over time and no one will help them. It's just a matter of time.
That's true, Greek businesses are all over Skopje, plus the Greek harbor is open for Skopjian guys to trade, imagine what would happen if all these where just gone.
the greek harbor is Chinese owned and your mining industry(1 mine) is Canadian owned,
then they would use other ports. and roads. and greeks would lose jobs.
grrk businesses all over Macedonia? there are no greek businesses in Greece.
you own nothing. just the clothes on your backs. your still all delusional
now find yourselves another name. Bulgaria, Macedonia, turkey and Albania all have there real identities. it is you with the non historic name.
yet another banana republic created by the BEIC.
and why is that funny FISOG doesn't recognize them.
but all have real names not like Greece which is not historic. just renaissance convenience.
and Greece is not an investor. you are bankrupt all that was yours is now someone elses.
Lol 1: I guess you never traveled in southern Vardashka and 2: Thessaloniki has also a harbour and its not totally sold out.
3: Get your facts right and stop posting bullshit smartass
4: Dont get so much butthurt
eurosensazion Macedonia will exist as long as greece! We call ourselfs macedonians and 158 countries in the world do the same! Our culture and language are different from the serbian, greek and bulgarian! Not even god himself can ever change that! Stop the stupid nationalism!
How did the Former Yugoslav Republic of North Macedonia get the Greek name of Macedonia???
Every body knows that the original ancient Kingdom of Macedonia of Alexander the Great is in northern Greece and is the northern Greek prefecture of Macedonia, so how did the the modern country called 'Republic of North Macedonia' (formerly Yugoslavia) get to be called Macedonia???
Well the former Yugoslav Republic of North Macedonia was in fact formally created in 1944 under Marshall Tito's government. The name "Macedonia" was never applied to that part of the map of Yugoslavia at any date prior to 1944. Tito had in mind a purpose in creating this state, Tito wanted to annex the northern Greek region of Macedonia and acquire the port of Thessaloniki, so Tito clandestinely invented the name "Macedonia" for that region which had never existed before - it was originally the 'Vardar Banovina' region of southern Serbia. Its population is 60% slavs related to Bulgarians/Serbians, 30% Albanians, and 10% Vlachs, Turks, Roma-Gypsies etc
stop commenting bro no one cares
@@memperkasaya2078 no one cares about what??
Nice video !!
They should just change their name to Western Bulgaria
BlueRange TV or eastern albania and southern greece as anny will do tbh. You can find each people group there but not actual macedonians
BlueRange TV Vardarska is the original name or just vardar republic
In reality, they were Southern Serbia until 1918
"southern greece". Yikes.
South Serbia.