DCS AV-8B Harrier Tarawa Landing Tutorial

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 118

  • @dopebogey
    @dopebogey 6 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    Lots of really good vids out there on the av8 by DCS youtubers (I really appreciate all of them), but Redkite, hands down your training videos are my favourite. so thorough and complete, but easy to understand.Keep them coming...PLEASE! =)

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thanks! i'l keep em coming as the aircraft develops but i'm reaching the end of it's current content :)

    • @dopebogey
      @dopebogey 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      by the way, how did you get the Harrier in that parking spot? I can't seem to figure that out in the mission creator. When I create a mision no matter what parking spot i pick it puts it in the middle of the ship

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I used the nozzles in full aft position to reverse the aircraft there as i wanted to quickly cover how to taxi at the start of the video. Hopefully with 2.5 we'l get an update to carriers allowing parking spawns

  • @mackan072
    @mackan072 6 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Your harrier tutorials are by far the best ones available.
    They're calm, clear, concise and very informative - but still very simple to follow along and understand. You don't complicate things too much and you explain things in a way that the viewer does not have to know the general flight language or abbreviations in order to follow along and understand what's going on. As someone who never had the time nor patience to properly sit down and on my own learn DCS other than fairly bare-bone basics, this is gold. I've learnt to enjoy both the harrier, and DCS in general a lot more after finding your TH-cam channel.
    I would love to see this series expand later on, to other upcoming, or perhaps old modules.
    Keep up the good work!

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you! I'm glad to hear they've been so helpful. I've favoured doing simplified explainations. Because when i learned the A-10c years ago i'd struggled with motivation from the sheer complexity and depth people often went into. I've always found it far better to learn the basics so you can have some fun, before moving onto the heavier study level stuff, which is often better left to documentation than video format.
      I'l keep on covering the Harrier as new features are added or improved, in the meantime i'm filling in a few gaps in my series such as startup, aar and vtol. I've been considering covering DCS basics (ground attack / self defence / planning, esp since 2.5 will bring in new players) and will almost certainly cover the Hornet when it arrives too.

    • @mackan072
      @mackan072 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      It may be a good idea to also upload the missions you´re flying in said tutorials, even if they're incredibly simplistic and easy to set up yourself.
      I am now capable of doing so myself, but I remember when I was completely fresh to DCS and wanted to have download links to the missions flown in the tutorials I watched. I wanted to fly the exact same mission, with the same conditions as what I watched and generally they're not included. It's a shame, especially as the mission editor on its own takes a few hours of messing around with before you're even remotely comfortable with it.
      That's one of the biggest issues with DCS. It's not very good at telling you basic things. I remember not understanding how to use my radio for applying ground power when I began flying full fidelity aircraft. All videos simply told me to do it, but I could not find how to use the radio. Back when I only flew the f-15, I didn't really need it, so I had never learned that. It was the same with changing the ordnance of my aircraft. There are so many, fairly simple, yet important things which unfortunately are not very intuitive and unfortunately make the game even more inaccessible to new players.

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah DCS isn't so great on the tutorial side of things, they expect you to dig out the manuals often hidden in the game files, i learned the su-25t mostly from their offical tutorial videos which were a bit dated! They could do with some more interactive tutorial missions, but they're seemingly never present in early access modules.When i started the basic radio button for me didn't work at all, and had to be bound! (a conflict of keynaming on the part of my keyboard i believe)
      I can certainly put together a little tutorial mission on 1.5 I plan to do a small series introduction video for the playlist which will include all the manuals/resources i've found so far for the harrier, i can add a mission there and bring up a few of those points for total beginners.

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Incidentally, what are the default global keybinds for the radios? having rebound them around 4-5 years ago myself and migrating my controls file across the years i've just realised i've no clue, and no quick way to check.

    • @mackan072
      @mackan072 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It's backslash to open the radio menu on american keyboards
      This however translate differently depending on which keyboard you're using. On scandinavian keyboards (which I use) it translates to the key between "enter" and the letters Ö and Ä, a key which has ' and * printed on it
      Unfortunately though this is likely to differ depending on keyboard layout for different languages.

  • @fargo007
    @fargo007 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Great job here, especially the technical detail addressing the weight limits for vertical landing.

  • @weswheel4834
    @weswheel4834 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I came here expecting a shortish video vaguely related to the Harrier and carriers. So much information! I could have watched 5 different videos one after another and still not learnt this much. Thanks for the video.

  • @davidduncan1892
    @davidduncan1892 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    The best training video I have seen for any aircraft. All the thing you would normally be left wondering about you answer.

  • @Britchot
    @Britchot 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    RedKite, your videos and resources for the Harrier have been exemplary. The kneeboard attachments will come in quite useful!

  • @JSJFly1986
    @JSJFly1986 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Pinned it to my Training videos ! Marvelously explained ...

  • @Kifter1983
    @Kifter1983 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very professionally done. Controlled, methodical, accurate.

  • @badenbr1
    @badenbr1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Excellent tutorial of a quality that match the excellent work done by other great DCS Tubers like Gerry Abbot, Bunyap, and Ralfidude. Thanks for your effort putting these marvellous resources together Buddy most appreciated..

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Wow, putting me up there with the with the big names thank you! i often simplify things for ease of access, quite different from guy's like Bunyap who go down to the rivets on occasion. So i'm quite surprised to get that comparison :)

    • @badenbr1
      @badenbr1 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes true Bunyap and Ralfi are true legends but hey they've been at it for a very long time so who knows how high you'll fly Redkite if you keep doing what your doing... see what I did there.. ;)

  • @JIMJAMSC
    @JIMJAMSC 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great vids. Subbed..My 2 cents.... This plane is what makes the TM Warthog worth every penny. One tip is especially on vert landings having the nws mapped to the stick paddle. Hold it in and the nose will not jerk to one side but stay solid. Newbies learn the HSI and compass so it's second nature. Note the carrier or runways heading sand fly proper 90 degree base, final etc and NAIL your altitudes and speeds you are aiming for. At each point have a heading,alt and speed and nail em.
    Don't be sloppy. IRL you have dozens watching your every parameter so be consistent every time. If you get way off of your intended heading,speed etc go around.
    Get into the infamous" falling leaf" don't try to "make it work" but go around.

    • @sloppydog4831
      @sloppydog4831 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      The "falling leaf". My biggest mistake. Thanks for the tips and now I'm training to not get in that position anymore.

  • @marklopez936
    @marklopez936 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank You for your informative and relaxed instruction. The videos are priceless. I have turned into a Harrier fanboy thanks to these videos. Got missiles away, killed the AAA and landed on the Tarawa. Good Times!!! Thanks RedKite.

  • @Hobbes22
    @Hobbes22 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    That was a great landing. I need to practice more!

  • @neo2264
    @neo2264 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is the most useful tutorial vid for the Harrier I've seen yet, thank you sir. I was very curious what the vertical landing weight limit was, now I know that along with several other useful things.

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you glad you've found it helpful.

  • @bushranger900
    @bushranger900 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    My Instructor! Nice tutorial RK thank you

  • @Itzo_
    @Itzo_ 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great series, thank you for that. Will surely rewatch as I learn :) Subscribed and waiting for when the developers adds TGP and lots of the other subsystems.

  • @SFDPSFDP
    @SFDPSFDP 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent guide thank you very much

  • @Kennyuk77
    @Kennyuk77 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good video, I recently bought the Harrier and was struggling with to/l

  • @itsumonihon
    @itsumonihon 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    the secret to flying a harrier is knowing how to fly a helicopter. the behavior is very similar. if you can learn to fly and hover a helicopter well, you will be miles ahead when in the harrier.
    one thing. with most dcs planes you can get away with a simple joystick, but with the harrier you really need the nozzle angle controller to be easily moveable while also being able to adjust throttle at the same time, and a twist rudder stick is going to cause all kinds of grief when landing or at slow speeds in vtol mode. you need rudder pedals to do well.

  • @Murmur2k
    @Murmur2k 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent vid - thanks for taking the time

  • @Pimps-R-us
    @Pimps-R-us 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love watching your videos. Such a soothing voice : )

  • @TrickerDCS
    @TrickerDCS 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Great tutorials, keep it up brother

  • @prichardgs
    @prichardgs 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You, Sir, are my DCS Sensei

  • @AggrarFarmer
    @AggrarFarmer 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great Tutorials i buy soon this Harrier.

  • @longriflem14
    @longriflem14 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Kite Great videos!! I am new to Dcs and these are going to help immensely. How do you keep the Harrier stable?? I've tried probably 100 times and have never landed. I've even took off straight up, tried to hover a d come back down, and still crashed or wobbled like crazy. I've gotten close to boat twice. Look at horizon a try to slide over using minimum inputs and just swing side to side and the last couple I've even gone backwards and up. And my nozzles were at 82. Any help??

  • @P90F55
    @P90F55 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent.

  • @jaybeckman3749
    @jaybeckman3749 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Very well done!

  • @Chessbear78
    @Chessbear78 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Smooooth stuff . Well done !!

  • @Rabies4818
    @Rabies4818 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent video mate, well done!

  • @pagra90
    @pagra90 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very very good tutorial! Thanks a lot...

  • @rodrigobarbosa6610
    @rodrigobarbosa6610 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice landing and tutorial! Thanks!

  • @TBUKMusic
    @TBUKMusic 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did you implement curve on the pitch & roll on your joystick? great landing tutorial

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, i use a small curve on both, ive also got a 10cm extension on my stick which also helps.

  • @JacobGramtorp
    @JacobGramtorp 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent tutorials redkite :) I have one question though. Aren't you supposed to drop throttle to idle very quickly after touchdown (or even just before in certain situations) when landing vertically? To avoid jumping back up or to the sides like you did? As far as I know this is why most vertical landings on video seem rather hard on touchdown.

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, it is better to cut throttle, as you touchdown, to help avoid jet exhaust re-entering the engine. i'd slid to the side mostly because i'd forgotten about nws, leaving it in cast mode and touched down with a little lateral speed.

  • @TheCraigHudson
    @TheCraigHudson 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Red kite iv commented on a few of your vids. Recently started playing the harrier again. Have you been to the dcs website lately someone added a caucuses campaign for the harrier called Georgian shield.

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the support! i'l have a look at the campaign, always looking for more good missions.

  • @sloppydog4831
    @sloppydog4831 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice tutorial man. Thanks.

  • @Gargoyle11
    @Gargoyle11 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video as always. I just hope Razbam tweaks the landing gear a little bit. When you hit the deck, the Harrier in DCS tends to jump back in the air compared to in real life where the landing gear dampens the impact. Iv gotten pretty good at setting it down really really soft to get around this, it just bugs me when I see it happen.

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm sure we'l see some updates to it, though we might have to wait for the merge before it happens. it makes a good deadline for a big update and removes the need to test on two builds.

  • @AkiicToDaHead
    @AkiicToDaHead 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Another great vid RedKite!!

  • @thewatcher2222
    @thewatcher2222 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey, the jet is designed to VL with STOL flaps selected.

  • @zaelu
    @zaelu 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I couldn't stop noticing the Tarawa has the door opened. How do you do that in game? Thank you.

  • @Plydrms
    @Plydrms 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    My 2.5.4 already has the Tarawa ship installed. Its not in user/saved games or navy ship's directory. Do you know where to find the file?..thanks

  • @Faroff10
    @Faroff10 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Because of watching your videos i fell in love with the harrier and bought it. And now its my favourite module, and i just watch your videos over and over to help me keep sharp on operating the harrier. Also love your kneeboard its so great to have weight and rwr reference. Do you plan on doing these videos for the F18 when it gets released?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I highly recommend you look up Wag's in-depth hornet introduction videos (Producer at eagle dynamics), i'l do some content on the hornet but i'l most likely skip covering anything that is already covered by Wags. You can expect some quick start guides and kneeboards for the hornet as it releases :)

  • @IrishManJT
    @IrishManJT 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Well done.

  • @TechGaming45
    @TechGaming45 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Awesome vid.

  • @wiggles7172
    @wiggles7172 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video dude. How did you do your kneeboards? Awesome feature!

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I created them in Macromedia flash 8 of all things :)

  • @Aolen75
    @Aolen75 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very nice.

  • @jjsemperfi
    @jjsemperfi 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    We always launched our harriers from way aft on the deck. 450 is pretty short.

  • @Knubinator
    @Knubinator 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Small comment, but I thought nozzles should never be less than 10 when flaps are in use, because the blast will damage the flaps?

    • @nvstewart
      @nvstewart 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Paul Cory almost correct. When flaps are up (5 degrees) nozzles should be 10 degrees. When flaps are in stol mode (25 degrees initially) nozzles should be 30 degrees. So after takeoff, you should put you nozzles to a minimum of 25-30 degrees until the flaps are raised then you can put the nozzles to 0 degrees.
      Also, for the approach, you want the nozzles to be 50-60 degrees to maintain an airspeed of 110-130kts. When between 0.5-0.8nm from the landing location put nozzles to hover position and let the speed bleed off. You really don't want to move your nozzles beyond the hover position as that will dramatically increase workload as your left hand is juggling between throttle and nozzle leaver

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, as others have put it nicely. These tutorials are simplifed skipping the fine details of the natops for those looking to get into flying fairly quickly, luckily in dcs we don't have a crew chief to tell us off! (that said i'd love a persistant aircraft bit like the A2A modules for FSX, i love their B-17G)

  • @LtDogoop
    @LtDogoop 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    do you use reshade?

  • @Mailman_NOB
    @Mailman_NOB 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice tutorial..what joystixk do you use?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I use a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS with a 10cm extension

  • @uscstaylor
    @uscstaylor 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks Bud

  • @funkyfranky666
    @funkyfranky666 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Lovely, thank you!

  • @6605jeremy
    @6605jeremy 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    If I remember right out pilots always set nozzles to 55 on takeoff

  • @StickShaker21
    @StickShaker21 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    When I try to use the Tarawa in the training mission or on a server I either end up on the F10 map or it says my flight was delayed 🤔

  • @104th_raccoon
    @104th_raccoon 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hello RedKite, First of all thanks for your excellent turorials here! I would like to ask if you could send me your joystick-axis-configuration setup please. Cheers from Germany.

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm afraid i cannot, I use a Thrustmaster Warthog stick with 10cm extension, my settings won't apply for you. I've been considering making a tutorial about how to configure this for yourself, since its mostly down to the stick and personal preference. i'l look into it on the weekend.

    • @104th_raccoon
      @104th_raccoon 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      RedKite Thanks for your reply! I'm using the same Joystick like you without extension though. Looking forward to see your upcoming tutorials as there are very helpful! Keep up what you are doing. Cheers from Berlin.

    • @zaelu
      @zaelu 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RedKiteRender Sorry for asking this on such old movie, but I have same stick and extension and out of curiosity what are your curve settings? Thank You!

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@zaelu Not flown with the Thrustmaster base in a long time now, i'd hazard a guess at somewhere around 20-30 is what i used, you'l have to tinker with it to personal taste.

    • @zaelu
      @zaelu 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RedKiteRender Many thanks for quick answer. 20-25 is what I normally use. I just wanted to check if other people with extensions on HOTASes still use curves.

  • @Arkaine_
    @Arkaine_ 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Will the procedure be the same if I have a combat load ? Say, 24k-27k when taking off from the carrier ?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Take off is always the same, the max weight you can safely take off with however varies depending on the weather conditions and if the tarawa is moving. in this video i took off with around 30,000 on a carrier doing 15knots with a small headwind if i recall correctly.

  • @rehil123
    @rehil123 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    well done

  • @rudelchw
    @rudelchw 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very very good, thanks a lot, really helpful ... I'm so glad to have subscribed to your channel :)

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      You're welcome :) it's been nice giving back a little to the community after all these years consuming similar tutorials myself.

  • @The_Wildfish_
    @The_Wildfish_ 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    How do you so accurately control the nozzles?
    Forgive my stupidity but I’m very new to the harrier

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I use the left throttle on my dual throttle controller (thrustmaster warthog)

    • @The_Wildfish_
      @The_Wildfish_ 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      so it can be an axis?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      yes

  • @malbicho6174
    @malbicho6174 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Come on! Seriously? 0 pounds of water for landing? You rock!

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      All about weight planning and careful flying. If you're underweight you won't have to dip into the water unless you make a mistake requiring extra power to recover.

    • @malbicho6174
      @malbicho6174 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RedKiteRender I will try it once again. I am still fresh with the harrier.

  • @drgentlewolf
    @drgentlewolf 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Available to play some VR device? , or only to play on display?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      DCS supports multiple VR headsets including HTC VIVE and Oculus Rift

  • @sorted0blud
    @sorted0blud 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good shit thanks for this

  • @TAGsRC
    @TAGsRC 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does the anxiety ever go away

  • @ntcggaming3486
    @ntcggaming3486 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    How did you do to make the game look like almost real life?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm using DCS 2.2 which has a new render engine, the current free map uses the old render (1.5.8) End of the month there will be a major update to bring it up to the same standard :)

  • @migkillerphantom
    @migkillerphantom 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ha, this is pretty much what I ended up doing instinctively after trying to do the side-hover move for like 3 times before going around. I can nail these slow, pseudo vertical landings easily but I can't hover no matter how hard I try, I get caught in escalating oscillations :(

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Try adding some curviture to you pitch / roll axis, dont be afraid of letting to aircraft drift and settle on its own a little too.

    • @migkillerphantom
      @migkillerphantom 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      RedKite yeah I have curvature, struggling with the not overreacting bit

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Best i can say is practice, don't be afraid to let the aircraft settle itself, and wobble around, it won't stay perfectly stable most of the time, long as the wobbling isn't getting worse or causing you to drift a lot off target there's no need to correct it yourself, just let it settle down. Less is more in many respects when it comes to precision.

  • @ivanritchie1406
    @ivanritchie1406 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have the harrier, but cant find the tarawa in the mission editor

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's there, make sure you selected place ships, and the USA, will probably have the name USS Tarawa.

  • @pccoder
    @pccoder 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What sum is this? I’m flying X-Plane and these videos are just as relevant.

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      DCS - Digital combat simulator

  • @ryanm.191
    @ryanm.191 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What if you vto without water?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      If you run out of water your maximum power will be reduced. If you’re too heavy that means you wont be able to hover safely without overheating the engine. It is entirely possible with light loads to hover without water however.

  • @antoniojoaquin8902
    @antoniojoaquin8902 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good landing but you must landing by left side of the planeta carrier.

  • @jjansgi
    @jjansgi 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Don't forget STOL flaps.

  • @GNX157
    @GNX157 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wouldn't it be better to burn the fuel off instead of dumping raw fuel into the ocean and damaging the sea life?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      In real life they only dump fuel when a flight has an emergency or otherwise unable to complete their flight plan as it was originally briefed resulting in excess fuel. Fuel usage and return weights are pre-planned, so dumping is kept to a minimum. Unlike in your typical DCS flight where most people won't plan this, so virtual wastage can be pretty high. That said sea life are not a major concern for military operation, the jets are hardly eco-friendly in the first place!

    • @TheFlunder123
      @TheFlunder123 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      The US Miliary is the worlds N°1 polluter.

  • @manuelgearbox7309
    @manuelgearbox7309 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Anybody knows how to drag the kneeboard around the screen?

    • @RedKiteRender
      @RedKiteRender  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Unfortunately i don't believe you can, you can edit the configs to change it's starting location however.

  • @henrikvester7171
    @henrikvester7171 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    You have tried this before :)