Since I watched this before, I've been in the hospital with a heart attack and open heart surgery, and watching you again it's like having a conversation with an old friend, thanks for keep making these videos
So sorry to hear about your heart attack. I know two people that have had the same of similar surgery, both are doing very well. One of these people is my neighbor. If I'm remembering correctly he's about 71 now. After his recovery he went back to laying floors part time. Anyway, thanks for the compliment on my video. It's good to know how others perceive my videos. I told Mr. Pete (Tubalcain) the same when I met him last year. He is a great guy.
After getting over the initial shock that you weren’t going to USE the item in its original format…I was captivated by your obvious mastery of machinery. As a professional hobbyist and the son of a machinist, you brightened my day with this video. Keep ‘em coming!
as a machine rebuilder way back in the 80s we replaced most lead screws with ball lead screws for high accuracy, and as a scraper i used to fit the ways and gibbs and even ground small grooves in the ways for oil and put zerks in the casting
I have been fascinated by the art of machining and metal work for a long, long time and I continue to wonder what prompted me to keep my materials mostly limited to wood. It's probably because that's what my dad used for most of the home projects I "helped" him with one hand while I held up my diaper with the other. My dad seemed to de EVERYTHING for himself and so it goes, like father, like son. As I watched your video, I was no less than mesmerized by your explanations, demonstrations, and overall workmanship. You certainly have an unusual grasp of metalworking and I really appreciate the demonstration of your meticulous methods to me and others. I must agree with Chris Williams' comment from a few months back, you seem to have an unusual "mastery" of this type of metalwork. Thank you.
Wow... Thanks you very much. Something interesting is that I originally got into metal working to build woodworking machines or fixtures. One of the first projects was a rather large horizontal boring machine for doweling.
Mark, when you went to center that block in the four-jaw to bore the hole in it, I thought instantly of a trick I saw Keith Rucker use. He used a spot drill in his drill press to make a hole big enough for a dead center to register in. Then he put the block in the 4-jaw, trapped a dead center with the point in the hole, and the center of the other end on his tailstock center. From there he could put the dial indicator on the dead center (he might have been using a piece of a broken end mill, sharpened to a center point…) and rotated the chuck. The point of the dead center has no choice but to follow the hole in the block, and you can use a dial indicator to bring it to center just like you would a piece of round stock in the jaws. It was really slick and a trick i filed away for future use.
Love your content. I just bought a 2 hp drill press and I wanted an x y table for it. This one seems to be the only thing out there. So. I got it. Mine is exactly like yours right down to the bent shaft and loose fits and crazy angle holes for the rod. I ordered the McMaster stuff and plan on tuning mine up to something less rickety as well. Thanks again. Perfect timing for my shop at least ! Please keep up the great work! All the best. Bruce
Thanks! The hardest part is alignment of the nuts. The screw is a close fit on the longer axis as well. Enlarging the two holes out in the bearing blocks helps a lot. I love the outcome on my table but a DRO would have been a lot easier.
@@WinkysWorkshop thanks again. I agree. But. It is a drill press! I am just going to use it so I actually have the vise mounted (rather than just holding the vise in my hand and aligning it-which I have been known to do!) so it’s just x y. My mill has a 4 readout 10ths DRO and I love it ! You do great work. I love watching you just dive in and make it happen! I plan on making your hands free die holder and spring style cut off blade holder as well. Excellent ideas. Love them both. Thanks again.
@@bruce150 That's great! I love having some kind of mill table on the drill press and almost never use my mill to drill. On the current mill table and the slide table I had before the vice was never removed. I had a few 1 foot square pieces of 3/4" plywood with a 2x4 mounted to the bottom. If I needed a table without a vice and just clamped the 2x4 in the vise.
I've seen this table on Amazon, and I was immediately impressed with how wide the bottom dovetail is, giving good support to the table, most have very narrow bottom dovetails that let the table rock. It was nice to see someone take it apart to see what it's like, is a lot for the price, and if you're willing to fiddle about with it ( perhaps scrape in the slideways, perhaps add ball screws or DRO ) it could be a very useful milling table.
Personally I don't think the castings need any work aside from sanding the corners. the lead screw was kind of a pain to deal with because it was a little big in diameter. If I had it to d over I'd probably install some cheap DROs and put smaller lead screws in... or maybe leave the factory screws. I will say, after the modifications I love this table.
Purchased an Interstate 2 axis mill drill table on-line for cheap...$175.00 - 6" Table Width x 19 Table Length, 7-1/2" Cross Travel x 11" Longitudinal Travel, Slide Machining Table - 5" Overall Height, Two 9/16" Longitudinal T Slots, 10-1/2" Base Length x 8" Base Width...The claim, that it was new.......Unboxed..coated with Cosmoline... Took table completely apart - soaked and brush scrubbed in ZEP industrial citrus cleaner all parts in/out rinsed and dried thoroughly Oiled everything with Hoppes gun oil and set everything up to inspect and or re-assemble. The castings are certainly much larger and were not quite as nice as your Vevor model but the machined ways are very smooth and with some tuning no slop in either table. Both "X" &"Y" axis lead screws are metric Acme thread (not my favorite). Acme are beautiful threads, I just don't happen to like metric all that much but then again, everything with this table is metric............."X" - axis lead screw turned true on a friends lathe...surprisingly, no wobble...But had seriously peened over 8mm threads on both ends of the "X" axis lead screw. "Y" - axis lead screw was another thing.....10mm portion toward hand wheel, appeared to be bent. Chucked in the lathe, serious wobble. A machinist friend was, believe it or not was able to straighten this lead screw. So when re-chucked it was amazingly true..(will wonders never cease) Also, (I am the kind of person that desires to have the "Y" - axis lead screw terminated with a "cup-end thrust bearing, so the end of the lead screw doesn't just wobble all around) this was the case with is table as well. So, the very end of the "Y" lead screw protruded into a bored hole at that end of the table. To fix this, the 1/2" end of which was machined down to 10mm, the hole at that end of the table was re-bored and fitted with a nice fitted cup end thrust bearing........Both lead screw nuts appeared to have been manufactured by a high school student in machine shop....Hand wheels and dials and table jibs.........I am replacing the hand wheels with something more substantial and as both lead screws have keys/key ways the new hand wheels are as well, keyed. The dials will be a gotcha for me all around......You are the first person that I have seen that has a set-up for incrementing dials and produced some very excellent ones in a following you tube video. All together this beast cost a little more than $300.00. But I still don't have the dials...........Do yo by chance know anyone that does that kind of work..made to order?? Your table turned out very nice.....you really needed to replace what you had before....I'm somewhat "OCD" so, for me , "a lot of precision is good, but a lot more is, more better"!!!
The dials were actually much easier to make than the new lead screws. I don't know of any dials but you should try making them.... as long as you are using 10 TPI
Thanks for sharing, the video is interesting. Splitting the nuts you made would be a easy task to allow for some adjustment to minimize any back lash, both X and Y nuts. Drill press is such a great tool.
Thank you once again for inviting us into your workshop for a learning experience and a friendly visit. During the build I kept on comparing your solution, remachining the tool versus adapting a very inexpensive Digital Read Out. Your solution is very durable, reliable and cost effective. A DRO is much more expensive, not as durable, but has buttons to push and pretty colored lights that flash at you! I was torn between the two solutions!
Have been looking at this exact table on Amazon, after watching this I'm ordering it. Like the lead screw update as well . Great presentation thanks for posting
Thanks, I bought a second table for another drill press and put cheap DROs on it. I left the original lead screws on it but I think I will replace them with 3/8" all thread. The thread on the original lead screw is very fast.
While you have the slides apart, consider adding oil channels in the sliding dovetails and oil holes to apply way oil at assembly and in the future. I have a similar slide assembly that I will be reworking as a component of a tool grinder I am building. I enjoyed this video immensely!
Appreciated your review -- guess that's why we need to think of this Chinesium tools as being DIY projects. Thankyou for the video -- I like the way you approach projects. I'd imagine you'd have been a great shop teacher. Children don't get to learn such things these days -- I'm so thankful for a DAD that really taught us how to work on projects. I purchased the same/very similar unit from Mophorn a couple years ago for my drill press. Unfortunately, they just shipped it from China with the original single wall of thin cardboard and no padding, blocking or anything inside. The unit even had the handles on it when shipped. Came with one handle broken off the other mashed. And the X rod was bent badly. They did not want to return it, or have me give it a bad review, and they badgered me, calling EVERY day. We give you 10% off, then it was 20% etc. No I want a return. Did not know if I could fix that shaft, and cost of new wheels alone was 20% of what I paid for the unit. It would be easier to buy another unit. I did get them to return, but they did not want it shipped back. About a year later I was either going to toss it out or repair it. And was able to carefully torch and bend that shaft to where it was very close and got new handles and it does work. Was hoping I could do some very light milling on my drill press (a 1953 Craftsman) with brass bushings, and frankly almost a mm of side play at the business end. No - the chatter even on Alum was quite astounding - a definite NO GO. Been buying the parts for building a vertical mill (no quill). Hopefully I will get the time, ...someday LOL. Could use that x-y stage as a first one for that mill; before I build a proper one with ball thread rods and NEMA23 motors, want to be able to do CNC if case arose. RH
Gday Winky, overall the table is good value for what you pay, doing the modification is not that necessary but certainly improves the functionality, it’s much the same with small import machines like a mini lathe or mill, the way you have done this showing it can be done without a milling machine was a great idea, overall you have a perfectly functional XY table that’s much better the original, great job and very well explained, Cheers
Thanks... If your okay with Metric (which I think you are) all you'd need is better dials. However, the 4mm per turn is very strange to me. That math is irritating! How many turns to move 37.5 mm. Crazy
If you want to further reduce backlash, you can make a second nut for each leadscrew, and position it such that each nut is engaging on opposing threads.. i.e. if one nut is engaged on the left-hand side of the thread, then the other would be on the right-hand side. backlash is really just the amount of movement needed for the thread landings to engage on either one side of the nut's thread landings, or the other. by using opposing landings, and having the nuts positioned so they are always engaged, you eliminate the backlash ( as much as possible without introducing too much friction to cause binding)
That's similar to what I did on my cheap chinese lathe/milling machine combo. These units have .020 backlash on the cross slide. I took a piece of UHMW and drilled a hole in it the size (or slightly larger) of the root of the acme thread. Then I heated up the end of the acme thread with a torch and screwed on the UHMW. This causes a perfect fit. Let it cool. Next drilled and tapped two holes (one on each side) of the UHMW and installed screws. These are used for pushers. Next run the UHMW along the acme thread until you reach the acme nut. Tighten those two screws until you have no backlash. My cheap lathe/mill now has .002 backlash according to my dial indicator. Mr Pete did a lot of work here and only got a slightly better table in my opinion. I would sure like to have seen him put a dial indicator on it to actually show the backlash. I bet it was a lot. Making a backlash nut is really easy. In my explanation above it might sound complicated but it's not.
Love the job you did on the X/Y table. The thing has a good casting. The socket head screws should be recessed slightly in the handles. Ask me how I know. My Colchester lathe came with the tail stock (made one) missing the handle, only the cap screw sticking out. Throw it in the lathe, take a small boring bar, bring her in a little. The threads might need to be cut deeper.
Looks to be what some refer to as a "kit" tool...some assembly (and cleaning and filing and smoothing) required. Good bones, though, and a good place to start. Thanks for the review.
Hi Winky. I got my mill table apart. I filed some of the rough edges. Then took a rough Diamond honing board to the flat parts. Degreased everything and cleaned it up. One thing is that I could not find the right tap to finish the threads in the handle wheel. The threads don’t go all the way through and the bolt won’t tighten. But I’ll use nylon washers to take up the slack. I sprayed some T-9 rust protection on the parts then sprayed GlideCote over all the sliding parts. Putting it back together now. I seem to have an extra washer where the bearings go around the lead screw. I think it came from the long lead screw on the inside. Maybe to take up some slack? P
Nice job bringing it up to your standards. I was a little surprised that you didn’t slice a section of your lead screw nuts off and install some set screws so you could adjust the backlash. Thanks for the review, I have been looking at that table.
As it is now the backlash is less that .010" so not too bad. If i wears much I may split the nut but I suspect that will be years down the road. Thanks
Well sir your ability to spot and correct manufacturing and design concerns is to be commended. Your fabrication skills are beyond reproach. Your ability to review an item so that others may use your experience with said item to educate themselves further regarding said item and therefore form a more knowledgeable, well founded, decision regarding their potential acquisition of said item is absolutely horrendous. We have no more knowledge about the out of the box functioning of this mill bed now than we did when we got here. (OK, so maybe I have a LITTLE better idea)That said I watched it all front to back and am now headed to part 2. You've gained a new subscriber as well. So for a guy that does flat out crappy reviews, you ain't at all bad my friend. lol
HAHA.... Thanks! (I think?) Maybe my summery at the end of part 2 will change your mind. Ultimately (if I did not make it clear) the mill table is usable out of the box with the addition of a DRO. Modifying the lead screws was a lot of work and the DRO is fairly easy to install. Unlike the lead screws and brackets the castings were excellent. It's kind of like a house, you have to start with a good foundation. The rest can be fixed.
Good video Mark. I was hoping it would be a just unboxing as to the quality of the Vevor products I have been using are top notch quality. I have 2 little (unknown brand ) x-y tables i got from Little Machine Shop that I paid $80 for but was so damaged when i got it and had missing parts they had to send me another one. So now I have 2 of them that I have never used because they are just too light weight to even use. thanks for the video.
The vevor table is good out of the box if you don't mind sloppy lead screw bearings and attach a DRO. The way I went with dials was more work and required less clearance in the bearings
I went ahead and purchased one of these and as you say, petty amazing for the price. The one I received is exactly like yours, even the packaging is the same. I noticed that the one shown on the Vevor link as well as on Amazon and Walmart show a unit that has more gib adjusting screws and has a cover over the lower lead screw on the inside of the base. I wonder if there are more differences, perhaps one is an upgraded model.
I wondered about the cover also but never noticed the additional gib screw. I think maybe the cover limited travel a little. Mine moves about 3/4-inch over spec.
Nice video. Wondering if you’ve had any ideas about putting stepper motors on it , mount to your milling machine table and have a 2 axis CNC table. Similar to your CNC wood lathe.
That would be interesting to try although I'm not sure it would be worth the time and money. Most of what I do on the mill is straight moves. With the wood lathe CNC is a huge advantage because it always involves curves that are very hard to duplicate with X Y moves.
I was thinking of getting this and fitting a cheap DRO to "fix" the metric dials, but your lead screw upgrade probably improved it quite a bit over just converting it to imperial.
Great Job of upgrading the Table. It’s too bad they don’t spend just a little more Time to do it right at the Factory. The Castings were good, it was just all the sloppy Work they did on the Lead Screws and the rest. I guess they don’t have a Quality Control. Anyway, Thanks for showing us how you fixed the Problem. Really good Job of making it right.😁👍👍
Thanks! Yeah, the table castings are nice. The rest had all the right parts like thrust bearing but like you said, sloppy workmanship. Kind of like a 10 year old might do. Honestly, the easiest way to use the table is DROs.
Ok Winky. This is my last intrusion on your peace. I assembled the parts and found that the top table was very stiff. So on your suggestion, I opened it up and found that one of the bolts that holds the lower lead screw nut in place was rubbing on the upper lead screw. I took it out and used my grinder to reduce the diameter of the Allen head top. That did the trick. I might have made a mistake by applying a thin coat of silicon synthetic grease to all the sliding parts. It may be too heavy. I don’t know. After reassembling everything, the upper stage moves without any bumps although it’s still tight. The big problem is that I can’t center the mill table on my drill table because the lower turning handle hangs below the lip of the table. This mean putting a piece of wood underneath to raise the mill table. On top of that, I have a 4” mill vice that sits on top of everything. The weight is considerable and I don’t think my 20” Jet 20MF drill can handle it. Raising the table up and down is frightening. I just bought this drill press and I’m unhappy with it. I should have gotten the floor standing Nova instead. Thanks. P
No worries please intrude anytime! >I can’t center the mill table on my drill table because the lower turning handle hangs below the lip of the table. I think you might be able to swap the hand wheels but I'd have to look at mine. yeah... the mill table is handy but also hard to deal with on a standard drill press column. That's why I made a 4 x 4 column and power lift for mine. By the way... if you feel like taking the challenge most drill press heads slide of the top of the tube and clamp. You can make yours into a floor model with a square column. If you do, the most critical part is getting a short section of tube welded to the top of the 4x4 tubing absolutely square.
Well, this was quite educational. I'm so glad I have your videos to learn from, and enjoy in the process. There is a cross slide table in my future at some point and it's good to know this one has potential. I'm planning on converting my drill press to a square post at some point too. It just seems to "solid" things up. I have an old Dayton that is in need of a good going over. Thanks for sharing your shop with us!
Glad it was helpful! I love my square column drill press although it flexes a little when drill large holes with a lot of pressure. Most often this is not an issue but if you make the modification from my plans make the two arms that hang down a bit wider. They flex a little.
@@markhedquist9597 I think it's a still a worthwhile build but I'm always trying to make things better. One thing for certain... it's 1000% better than a round column.
Nicely done Mark. Well worth the money in my view. The castings alone are worth more than what you paid. The mods are time well spent. And doing the metric threads on the SB made me smile and think back to our conversation. "I like it" !!! Gilles
Hi Mark ! I have the same 'unit' , but I'm just going to use 1/2 - 10 Acme threaded rod . 'Picked up a few 3' sticks from ZORO for a very fair price . . . * way before I got this X-y table . . . I used some of the acme rod for replacing a cross slide that was really hurting ! I spent almost 20 hours working on my table to get it fitting much better - I filed, then scraped the rough machining on all the wear surfaces EXCEPT the dovetails , ( which were fairly smooth ) 'Don't believe that de - burring is in the vocabulary of cheep Chinesium ! I'm actually intending on using my setup for 'light' milling , so accuracy is an absolute MUST ! I saw your video on making the dials for this , THEN I wondered WHY youtube didn't send any notification - they're getting pretty bad about it ! SO . . . I bypassed watching the dials being made , to see this one FIRST ! 'Glad I did ! I think my setup is going to have a longer X travel , by repositioning the NUT ! Same is true with the Y movement . . . I can get 6" of cross travel , & 10" of longitudinal travel ! * Might as well milk it for as much as I can ! Great job on yours . . . I replaced the stock ( garbage ) gibs with cold rolled , & put dimples on all of the gib screws , along with turning them into 'dog points' . 'Think I'll use brass tipped screws on the LOCKS . . . along with a longer 'lever arm' - ( they don't get snug enough to suit me ! ) On to your dial making video ! Thanks for sharing your endeavors !
Good idea on the gibs and set screws and honestly I think 1/2" 10 acme would be better even if you have to sleeve the end bearings. The 3/4" was a very close fit.
i think you touched on something. Many of these parts or tools we want to buy are expensive, but there are Chinese versions. As you did here, you can make leadscrews, buy bearings modify and fabracate a lot of little things, but the main casting is one thing you cant make. Their castings tend to be rough. basically any thing i buy from lathe chuck to xy tables like this, strip, clean and see if any improvement can be made. Its a trade off many hobbyist can make, cheap tool , plus a little project to do. It is important you manage your expectations properly
Hi Mr Winky, when building my mill I used the same table but replaced the Acme threads with ball screws and blocks, works a treat and virtually no backlash 👴🏻👍
@@thetattooshow2751 Would love to know that also as I am contemplating purchasing one for the same modification and can see that on one axis 16mm would be fine, the other it might be a tight fit for the ball screw nut in the space
Mostly to make them inch but it also helped with backlash. If I was doing it again I might simply add DROs and keep the old lead screws. The new lead screws were a lot of work and hard to get the alignment right.
24:56 on a project this size you can use a lathe as a mill think of the head stock as a mills headstock or spindle laying on it side now all you have to do it clamp your work to the tool rest and use the x y axis on the lathe to mill your key slot. Its crude but it can work. There is always more then one way to skin a goat.
Hi, I just discovered your channel a little while ago, i really appreciate your videos for being clear and concise. I have a question for you regarding this Vevor compound table if that’s ok? Long story short, i have a quite old very solid German Weik horizontal milling machine, which has a dial feed only for its y axis. It’s X and Z are fed with levers, very solid and tight, but especially the X is not suitable for milling a part by feeding with the lever, its not slow and gentle enough, if you know what i mean. So, i need a single axis dial feed option, but they are impossible to find here in Oz and an XY compound table like this Vevor would end up being too high/close to the cutting tool. So i am thinking that this Vevor looks like the X feed/table section comes off the base and could be used (when mounted on say a flush to the dovetail plate bolted to the mills table) as an X axis feed? So my question is does the top X axis/table section still function on its own after removing from the base/Y section please? (Phew)
Ok, so i gather from your comment that the top x axis table does function when independent from the bottom section. Ill consider other options and decide if this is the best way to go as I haven’t received any other better ideas for the machine i have. Thank you heaps for your reply, I really do appreciate your taking the time and trouble to respond.
I too was emboldened to buy one of these mainly due to your excellent review. I have been a sub and enjoy all your content as it is down to earth without all the noise and clutter of unwanted music or frivolous commercial-sounding content out there. I am in the process of cleaning up and even smoothing the gibs to make it work as good as possible. I don't own a metal lathe to make the kinds of mods you did to make it super smooth and even more precise. One question I have is can I use a shim around the lead screws to make them tighter against the hole on their respective holders? At least the lead screw nuts are threaded straight in the unit so I don't have to worry about that causing the biding of the lead screws
I think maybe boring the hole and pressing a sleeve in would be the best approach. Also you can buy cheap DRO's for maybe $60. This is easier and probably more logical than dials
@@WinkysWorkshop The DRO sounds good. BTW, if you could offer some of your shop-made sleeves, I would definitely buy them. I am sure there are many non-metal working DIY'ers like me who could make the best of such minor upgrades for reasonable cost, at least to those in the USA as the shipping will be reasonable
For someone that is not a machinist and would like good or better than good compound mill table "like this unit" for a floor mount drill press what is your choice as an out of the box unit in inches? I lov how you can make anything you want from raw stock... You have great video's to get lost in for a few hours.
Thanks Don, The mill table is great but the lead screws are not. They are metric and 4mm per turn. If I was going to do this again I would probably buy some cheap DROs instead of converting the lead screws.
Now to finish the project you need to get your dremal with a cutting disk out and put some oil groves in the ways and then install some oil zirk fittings. I have done that to all of my Chines mills and lathes. They like this table came with no provision for oiling the ways. I put the oil grove in the gib ( on my rongfu 30) so you don't have to have the table in a special spot to oil that way. my gib stuck out far enough that could do it that way.
Can you tell me how thick the casting is on the y axis, you see.... I'm trying to build an x y rotary table and the rotary I have is a fine english made thing with 4 slots arranged in a ❌ . The XY that I have doesn't fit this and would require a couple of new slots to be cut, which I'm very hesitant to do, being a fine english made thing of good quality . I'm thinking of getting one of these XY tables and fitting it...but may have to drill into the casting of the y axis so as to align each axis with 0° , 90° etc What's the size of the dovetail, depth from top flat face to bottom flat face, and major dimension. Don't want to spend the money only to find I can't do what I want
@@WinkysWorkshop no? indicate it? if not how do you know without spittingg it? not trying to give you a hard time wink, just trying to get a complete understanding :)
@@RedDogForge I have indicated it on the long axis and its within .0005" the length of the back jaw of my vise and that's probably imperfections in the vise jaw. I know they call this a mill table but it's nowhere near solid enough for milling. I'm using it on a drill press to locate holes. Realistically it could be out .010" and never be a huge issue but I suspect it is much closer. Honestly I have considered checking it for squareness but otherwise I'm not concerned.
I wanted them to be 10 treads per inch. This makes one turn .100" and makes standard dials work well. One increment on the dial is .001" . The original lead screw would work well with a DRO and this is probably a more logical approach. They were 4mm per turn. Even if you are used to metric 4mm is a bit awkward to use.
Been considering one of these myself just for the slotted table to go on my little CNC mill. Just not so sure it would appreciate slinging around what is probably a 35lb chunk of cast iron. Not sure the weight is worth the t-slots. Appreciate the look inside one of these! Been curious about their quality for a while. Seems perfect for your intentions.
Locking the gibs fairly snug before setting up the leadscrew nuts and brackets would have aligned the tables in the correct position first. 3/4" UNC a good choice for simple 0.1" per rev. Could the top be assembled with the handwheel on the left or would the nut have to be moved to the other end?
Interesting question! I have it assembled the same way I got it and the way it is in the pictures on the web site. The nut is close to the handwheel and stops the table travel going left right now but i suspect you could just turn the table around. The alignment on the nut might have to be adjusted but it would likely work well. The nut would be further from the handwheel which makes alignment less critical as well.
@@WinkysWorkshop could the y axis saddle be turned 180? is it machined the same on both dove tails? i know this would put the gib adjustment screws to the back but i could deal with that. thanks
@@WinkysWorkshop could the entire y saddle be turned 180*? I realize that would put the x axis gib screws to the back has opposed to the front,but I could deal with that. If that would be possible, then the dial would be to the left and not the right. thanks
I purchased one of these 30 years ago from Enco. I did the exact same thing, as there was too much slop in the threads. At the time I got some low backlash rods and threads from MSC supply. I also recut the dovetails, as they were very rough. I looked at Palmgren brand tables about 10 years ago, at a used tool store, and did not see any better quality. I just looked at eBay for acme threaded rod, for stepper motor use, it seemed very affordable. I only use this on my drill press, and I keep a quick adjust vise on it. I put risers under it for the same problem with the lateral feed crank handle as well. It just makes setup for quick centering of the drill where you want it. I never take it off the table. I made a plywood platten with a 2x2 tenon that I can clamp in the vise if I want a large flat area.
You sound like me and I agree. I also have a few pieces of plywood with a 2x4 glued to the bottom that I clamp in the vise. I never take the vise of the table.
It would be interesting to hear about any feedback you may have received from Vevor regarding the quality of those nuts. It's almost as if they've decided "nobody will see them so they can be crooked by 10-15 degrees." As a consumer there's no way I'd want to sink money into a product with that attitude about quality. For someone with your talents it's clearly a great starting point though. Great job.
Welcome aboard! It's a 1931 11" 85A. It's kind of an oddball. Like the spindle size is 1-5/8" x 8 instead of 1-1/2". The gears are all different too. I don't mind the spindle but finding gears and other parts is a pain.
If you ever turned an ACME thread you'd know why they are expensive. How many blocks would you have gone through if you had to single point them internally before you got it right?
Yes I have turn acme threads and you are correct. I've only done one successfully and it worked but they looked a little rough. Standard threads are great for this application. The only time you really need acme is when the threads are under a high load. Despite the use of the word Mill in the name this table is usually not used for milling.
I used the heck out of my old table. The only problem was that it would not lock in position. Less backlash would help but while drilling large holes the table would still move. The Vevor table is much more solid and the only real quality issue as the lead screws.
After a bit of hand scraping, it might be up to some precision work. For a drill press, I suppose it isn’t as important. The longer the thread, the less wear on the nut and the screw.
Nice to see a south bend junior lathe in action. I have one as well from 1931 and am fond of it. Do you still have the brass bushings? I have some play on it which I need to address in time...
Nicely done, looks like you were taking the Stefan Gotteswinter approach of using the tool as-received as a casting kit, like he does, and making it up to snuff for your purposes. But as you say, for the price point, at least the castings were actually good!
Thanks! Yeah the castings are nice. Honestly, the original handwheels and lead screws worked fine if somebody wanted to install cheap DROs. They had maybe .015" to .020" backlash and loose bearing fits but it was totally usable with a DRO. It just had a bad feel to it. In my opinion the dials were useless and even if they were nice the 4mm pitch is not easy to deal with.
I’m really impressed with your video. I just bought the same mill table and I searched for what to do before assembly. That’s how I found your video. But I don’t have a lathe or mill. What can you suggest I do without all the machining? Also, I’m in the market for a lathe. What do you have and what can you suggest for under $4k? Thanks, Paul
Hello Paul. Great questions! First, the best way to make this table usable is to install DROs I modified mine with dials and lead screws just because i have the time and tools to do it. DROs are fairly cheap. Amazon has an 8" for $32 but the longer ones are about $70. You might try ebay too. For a lathe I'd consider going with an old used one like South Bend, Logan and Atlas but get one with a quick change gear box. You learn a lot restoring an old one. If you want to go with a new lathe I'd suggest a Precision Mathews. I've never had one but i know a few that have both their lathes and mills and they like them. Mr. Pete is a great resource for info on the old machine. I hope that helps. Thanks for asking.
@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks for the quick reply. I just opened my mill table, sled thing and noticed that the lead screws are not as good as the ones on your device. I wonder if they cherry picked one for you since you were doing a review. I’m impressed with your confidence in dismantling the pieces. I’d be worried that I’d forget what goes where. But I archived your video and subscribed to your channel so I have a reference. I recently restored my dads old ATHOL vice and that was a lot of fun. Bead blasted it, then two coats of 2k epoxy primer followed by 2k high fill and top coat. I have my eyes on PM lathes. Great machines. I’m not sure I have the skills to restore an old one. But I’m open to the idea. I want to get a mill and a lathe but my budget is tight. I think patience is best. Keep looking for deals on Craigslist. Thanks for your help. Paul
@@paulmanhart4481 My lead screws were okay but the associated nuts and brackets were a complete joke. With that being said, mine had about 1/4 turn backlash and worked out of the box. Also, backlash is always a thing unless you have ball screws so it's just about as easy to deal with 1/4 or 1/2 turn.
@@WinkysWorkshop winkster, you have been a lot of help. I’m glad I came across your videos. So talented and knowledgeable. The number punch set you cited had 9 punches. Where’s the zero? Never mind. I’ll find out. Cheers and Roebuck. Paul
Hi I'm from the UK and just bought one of these tables so was interested in what you did. What do you call Standard thread ?? Have you ever thought of using Ballscrews, you can get them quite cheap?
Standard as opposed to acme of ball threads. It was cheap and I didn't care about load caring ability and to some degree backlash. I've tried to achieve near zero backlash with acme threads in a similar use and alignment becomes incredibly critical. I suspect ball screw might be slightly more forgiving but if I remember right I was having a hard time finding then in 10 TPI to make them work right with Inch dials. In hindsight cheap DROs would be the way to go. TPI and to some degree backlash is not an issue.
@@stewartdavis8618 Yes... inch based UNC. Metric is better overall but I'm used to inches. Also Vevor mill table had a retarded 4mm per turn pitch that would be terrible to deal with even if you wanted to use metric dials.
This is a great project and this XY table will be more than good enough for drilling. Nice work. I suspect 22:45 what seems like 1+mm of unnecessary clearance was there on purpose to minimize alignment struggle when assembling. The Y stage and the X stage have their own dovetail and gibs to keep their motion linear, this reduces the need for the lead screws to have precise radial positioning. The leadscrews' main concern is controlling movement and remaining stable in their axial directions. To this end, they can be allowed quite a bit of slop radially, explaining the 1mm shaft diameter delta. Making the neck of the new screw larger to more precisely fit the hole in the bearing block, you may have given yourself more alignment work toward the end with enlarging bearing block bolt holes, etc. to get the screw supporting parts to line up well enough not to bind. You got it by the end. Seems to work fine now, though..
I have the same drill press and I'm trying to understand how the lead screw assembly is supposed to function properly as is. Does anyone know the names of those types of nuts that come with it, and any other terminology that might help me uncover some reading material that relates to the specific use of lead screws as they come with this table. I don't have enough money to upgrade right now so I'm trying to do the best with what I've got. I've noticed the stock 51102 thrust bearing races have different size interior holes on what seems like the back race. Is this standard oir a fix for this job to make sure I dont put them on backwards? (The back race on first falls into the thread). The nuts used are antenna sort of nuts in a double nut arrangement. I've been pretty confused about this for a while and not sure what it is wrong with this arrangement and how these peices should work ideally. I think the problem is that the handle and the screw end peice that fits the bearings might not be accurate ... Anyways any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your video nice job on the drill!
>"I have the same drill press" Are you talking about the drill press or the mill table? The mill table lead screws and thrust bearing are a mess. I made new ones although it was a big job to get it right. Alignment is hard to get right. With that being said, the mill table functioned fairly well when I got mine. The only huge negative was the 4mm per inch lead screws. I work with inches but respect people that want to use metric but "4MM" per turn? This is not logical at all. I replace mine with 10 TPI so that one turn is 1/10" or .100" inches. If you want to use the table as is a DRO is the best way to go.
@@WinkysWorkshop I dont have the money right now for that but I realized the problem I was having is mostly that the nuts tightened down on the bearings too much i ground a bit off on the front bearing holder peice that screws into the dovetail peices to hold the screws. Im gonna get ball screws when I can afford it but I want to get these screws working working good just because... Anything is possible.
i was thinking I needed bigger heavier X Y tables for my DIY Mini Mill, But after watching this video I can see this level is way over kill for my setup. Boy you took it to another level, great review and rebuild. Do you know of a smaller strong setup for X Y table, I am slotting Pot Metal on Model Trains and Aluminum Blocks into new Chassis and truck frames, Not steel or large parts. Accuracy is on level with a farm wagon. But i need Y travel 6 to 8 inches and Z travel 12 to 16 inches. What do you think? Dennis
Aside from terrible lead screws this table is good. If you're not worried about dials even the stock lead screws are ok. I got a second table for another drill press and put DROs on it. I'm using the original lead screws.... they are not the best but do okay.
Yes... however, the lock down screw is also on the left. I didn't show it in the video but i put a long screw and knob on the lockdown so in my case the lockdown and handwheel might interfere with each other.
@@WinkysWorkshop I think I see what you mean. The y lock is on that side. About 6:51 by your right hand index finger. I missed that when I watched the video. I was considering using a table like this to add a milling platform for my lathe. That is why I would like the handle on the other side. That is if you imagine the table flipped 90 degrees. Then attached to the carriage, top facing the chuck. As such I would want the handles on top and operator side of the lathe. Just thinking through the use case where I might need to mill a slot longer than my carriage moves or vise could support (assuming normal lathe milling setups, which are maybe 4” -6” max). Can’t really just add machinist jacks!
I only have one negative thing to comment on this video. Please use a way cover on the lathe when using emery cloth. The grit mixing with the way oil is like lapping compound for the bed ways. My South Bend lathe is a 1944 lathe, so it is a year older than me, and is in better shape than I am. I try to keep it that wy by not wearing out the bed ways. I wipe the bed down before using the lathe, then lubricate it well before turning it on. Cast iron will also act as lapping compound, so cover before machiningon it.
Yeah... that is a good idea. I will say, I always clean the ways after grinding or sanding and at the end of the day the way oil is applied. Probably a good idea to cover them anyway.
Another good project, seems the the table is good valve for the price. Building that square column drill press is a project on my bucket list, is there anything you would do different having lived with for a while?
Yes on the square column drill press. I plan on doing a follow up video on this build so watch for it. The problem with my current design is that the lower support arms flex. I think two large plates on the side would work better than separate arms. The video will be posted this coming Friday (I hope).
Walt, I changed my mind on upgrading my square column drill press. The reason I was going to modify the design is to try and reduce the table flex. Most often the flex is not an issue but when drilling over 1/2" the table drops slightly. I'm guessing in most cases less that .030" but if you apply a lot of pressure you can make it flex nearly .100". Anyway, I think its a very worthwhile project but if you build it, make the two lower support arms a little wider. This won't eliminate the flex but it will help a lot. Also, send me an email if you have any questions. winkysworkshop@GMX.com
First thing great videos keep them coming, but I have a silly question, I received my one of these a couple of days ago, everything seemed to be good until I went to put the handwheels on to find out there was no keyway in the smaller one, my mic is only metric being frome the UK and they are not 3mm and not 4mm so would you or one of your subscribers across the pond do a quick measure up so I get the right grooving tool, best regards to you and your subscribers, David.
I no longer have the original screws but I'm sure mine had a keyway. I'm using the original handles. I think I bored them a little but they should have part of the keyway... Yes, I just checked. 3.8 MM. Weird... 4mm would be close enough i think.
@@WinkysWorkshop thank you, much appreciated, tried to get a replacement from vevor but they didn't want to know, told me it was usable without the handwheel !!
@@WinkysWorkshop Another thing I didn’t know. But I’ll keep you posted. My only concern is that floating lead screw nut on the bottom. Needs to be attached to the middle plate. Concerned about alignment on both lead screws. I have my eyes on an old South Bend lathe not far from me. Guy says he has upgraded a lot of things. Asking $2,500. Thoughts? P
Wink, you should do some research on our crazy inch system, it's not as bad as it's made out to be and it has many advantages over the metric system. It was developed by craft and tradesmen that were shipbuilders. The main thrust was to quickly find the center point in your head, such as half of 1/4 is 1/8, half of 5/16 is 5/32, Half of 5/32 is 5/64, and half of 5/64 is 5/128s, really someone spent much time developing or system and for what we do it probably really is a good system. I am fluent in both systems only because my life career change put me in a company that only used the metric system since they were German. Since retirement though I've gone back to the imperial system.
Ultimately I think metric is still better but I'm totally used to imperial and it does have advantages. The only thing that bothers me is having to look at decimal conversion chart. Most are in my head now but i still have to look sometimes.
I don't know how you read back over you comment and still claim it's a good system. It's a hacked together system that some people have just become accustomed to. It's a revolt against our 10-base counting system.
@@genaugmen4505 Funny comment. I agree that 10 is better but I sometimes the math is way easier with the inch system. Metric is hard to divide into 3's and 4's. Even feet and yards are a easier. Clocks are 12 and circles are 360 for the same reason.
If I was going to do this again I would go with the DRO. After making this video I found a couple on Amazon for a total of about $65. Plus I have the same DROs on my mill. They work perfect but they will not tolerate coolant and the battery life could be better. Actually I guess a 4 to 5 month battery life isn't that bad. If you remember to turn them off I'm guessing it would be several years.
Greetings to the Winkster. Well, I hope I don’t have to bother you anymore after this. Two things. 1. The enamel pen was an almost failure. The grooves were so shallow that when I wiped off the excess, most of the groove ink went with it. But I’d call it a 50% improvement over unmarked. 2. I have my table reassembled. Everything seems to be ok…BUT, the upper stage is a bit stiff. Not sure why this is. I played with the nuts and set screws on the side to loosen it a bit, but that only gave me about 10% more ease. I’m wondering if it’s the two black nuts that go between the green block and the handle wheel. I was uncertain about how tight to make those. Can you provide any insight? Checks in the mail. 😬 Thanks, Paul
I'd say its lead screw alignment. The nut and end bracket are not perfectly aligned. I had to mill or drill the bolt hole in the bracket that bolts to the table This allowed the bracket to move over a little and align with the nut.
@@WinkysWorkshop Hi Winky. I’m breaking my promise and contacting you again. First, my mill table is running smooth, thanks to your help. I have 2 steel blocks (1 x 2 x 3”), with a 1/2” hole in the center. I will use these to raise the mill table to clear the drill press table lip, and secure through the holes and t nuts. So all is good. Second, I want to deepen the scribes on my dial gauge using your technique. It looked like you used a 360 tooth saw blade as an indexing wheel. I have two applications for this. First is the markings on the mill table. Second is the markings on my rotation stage for the drill press vice that sits on top of the mill table. This has scribes every degree. So how do I make a 1 degree indexing wheel? Many thanks again. And keep your eye out for a good used metal lathe for me. Southbend, Logan, Monarch or whatever. P
@@paulmanhart4481 I was using a 100-tooth blade. This is based on the thread pitch of most lathes or in this case the new lead screws on my Vevor mill table. This is why I changed the lead screw in my table, to make it 10 treads per inch. This makes each of the 100 marks equal to .001", One turn = .100" and ten turns = 1.00" . The original lead screw was 4 mm per turn which is really hard to work with even in metric. 10's are easy to work with.
Awesome mods! I think the keyed shafts were necessary because the dials and hand wheels were a single unit. Without the key, they could spin around the shaft giving a false reading, if the locknuts loosened.
I got only to the part where the table moves when drilling round stock because of the backlas and did not watch any further. WTF, dude? Is it so difficult to fixate the table while drilling?
A tip for centering on the 4 jaw you can get a second center and put it between your tailstock center and into the punchmark on the block and indicate off of that since most centers have a center hole in the back if your punch mark isn't deep enough you can spot with a small center drill then you can indicate on the flat section on the center instead of the block 👍👍👍
Instead of ordering all new thrust bearings (23:00).. You could have just drilled out that green flange and put a bushing inside it to tighten it back up--- and still use all the old thrust bearings. :)
@@WinkysWorkshop I don't doubt that they are junk. but my point was that you could have just made a bushing to match the "too big" diameter; anyway, it doesn't matter... new bearings are still an upgrade, like you said.
I agree to a point. I guess it depends on what you need and what you expect. It's certainly true that you could buy this table and install a couple of DROs and have an exceptional mill table. However, if you wanted to do accurately position work for drilling without DROs or modifying the lead screws you would struggle. The 4 mm pitch lead screw is ridiculous and all the related components are poorly made. However, the castings and table itself are amazingly good. Maybe I should have had two ratings. An out of the box rating of 4 and a rating of 8 or 9 for it's potential. I'll have to say... I am currently enjoying this table. After the modifications its fantastic.
Awesome video Winky! I have wanted and considered buying one of those milling tables. But after seeing what you went through, I may change my mind. Although the DRO option sounds like it may be feasible...
Wouldnt 10mm per turn dial mean you need 10mm per turn lead screw therefore next to impossibile to mill anything manualy? I think 4mm per turn is 1mm per quarter turn and seems like a normal hand motion also normal metric leadscrew pitch. But i am no expert at all. Great video though really really liked it!
4mm per turn is crazy. Tell me how many turns for a 47mm move. Ten per turn makes this very easy, the answer is 4.7 turns. Why would 10mm per turn lead screw make it impossible to mill anything (side note: this mill table is best used to position stock for drilling not milling)? Also, I made the table inch based and my lead screws were 10-TPI for the same reason.
@@WinkysWorkshop 10TPI isn't like 10 turns per 25.4mm or approximately 2.54mm per turn so even smaller than 4mm per turn? Or probably i am missing something somewhere
@@SuperHapticsOne turn is 1/10" inch or .100" inch. Yes 10 turns is one inch and yes slower than 4mm per turn. With a total movement of 15 inches the speed really isn't an issue. This is standard on most inch based mills and lathes. I believe metric lathes and mills are 5mm which would be 5 turns per inch (approx.). Speed is not much of an issue although on a manual mill with a 1000mm travel it might be. 10 Base is needed for manual mills and lathes.
You did an excellent Job. If this piece said Made in USA and it was 1960! All you would have to do is give it a quick clean with less than $5.50 a gallon of gas. And bolt it to what ever you were bolting it to!
Why do I have a feeling that after this video, the company are in the works to make a standard/imperial version available to some of us? Or they can advertise it as a great project.
I doubt they will do this although that would be nice. They didn;t even bother to make the metric lead ten based. It was 4mm per turn which hard to deal with. Say you want to make a 27 mm move. How many turns? If it was 10 based it would be 2.7 turns.
Wow - looks like some of the boring and drilling on my Lewis Shaper series. There is straight, sorta straight, and what I found in mine. Great video enjoying. All the best Dan
Yeah that was not very good. It's a shame to put all that cast iron into a product and then mess up on something simple. Overall this is a very usable table but not much attention to details.
Since I watched this before, I've been in the hospital with a heart attack and open heart surgery, and watching you again it's like having a conversation with an old friend, thanks for keep making these videos
So sorry to hear about your heart attack. I know two people that have had the same of similar surgery, both are doing very well. One of these people is my neighbor. If I'm remembering correctly he's about 71 now. After his recovery he went back to laying floors part time. Anyway, thanks for the compliment on my video. It's good to know how others perceive my videos. I told Mr. Pete (Tubalcain) the same when I met him last year. He is a great guy.
Get well sir!
After getting over the initial shock that you weren’t going to USE the item in its original format…I was captivated by your obvious mastery of machinery. As a professional hobbyist and the son of a machinist, you brightened my day with this video. Keep ‘em coming!
Wow, thanks!
Love your style, really well shot, tight edit, no messing about with clear explanations and excellent craftsmanship - colour me mighty impressed!
Thanks! Its always good when my efforts are appreciated.
Great job. I can't believe how nice the castings and machining on the tables looked. Thanks for the video!
Thanks. And I agree.. in contrast to the terrible leadscrews.
as a machine rebuilder way back in the 80s we replaced most lead screws with ball lead screws for high accuracy, and as a scraper i used to fit the ways and gibbs and even ground small grooves in the ways for oil and put zerks in the casting
Cool
I have been fascinated by the art of machining and metal work for a long, long time and I continue to wonder what prompted me to keep my materials mostly limited to wood. It's probably because that's what my dad used for most of the home projects I "helped" him with one hand while I held up my diaper with the other. My dad seemed to de EVERYTHING for himself and so it goes, like father, like son.
As I watched your video, I was no less than mesmerized by your explanations, demonstrations, and overall workmanship. You certainly have an unusual grasp of metalworking and I really appreciate the demonstration of your meticulous methods to me and others.
I must agree with Chris Williams' comment from a few months back, you seem to have an unusual "mastery" of this type of metalwork.
Thank you.
Wow... Thanks you very much. Something interesting is that I originally got into metal working to build woodworking machines or fixtures. One of the first projects was a rather large horizontal boring machine for doweling.
Mark, when you went to center that block in the four-jaw to bore the hole in it, I thought instantly of a trick I saw Keith Rucker use. He used a spot drill in his drill press to make a hole big enough for a dead center to register in. Then he put the block in the 4-jaw, trapped a dead center with the point in the hole, and the center of the other end on his tailstock center. From there he could put the dial indicator on the dead center (he might have been using a piece of a broken end mill, sharpened to a center point…) and rotated the chuck. The point of the dead center has no choice but to follow the hole in the block, and you can use a dial indicator to bring it to center just like you would a piece of round stock in the jaws. It was really slick and a trick i filed away for future use.
Excellent idea! Thanks
I use this trick all the time and it works great!
Love your content. I just bought a 2 hp drill press and I wanted an x y table for it. This one seems to be the only thing out there. So. I got it. Mine is exactly like yours right down to the bent shaft and loose fits and crazy angle holes for the rod. I ordered the McMaster stuff and plan on tuning mine up to something less rickety as well. Thanks again. Perfect timing for my shop at least !
Please keep up the great work!
All the best.
Bruce
Thanks! The hardest part is alignment of the nuts. The screw is a close fit on the longer axis as well. Enlarging the two holes out in the bearing blocks helps a lot. I love the outcome on my table but a DRO would have been a lot easier.
@@WinkysWorkshop thanks again. I agree. But. It is a drill press! I am just going to use it so I actually have the vise mounted (rather than just holding the vise in my hand and aligning it-which I have been known to do!) so it’s just x y.
My mill has a 4 readout 10ths DRO and I love it ! You do great work. I love watching you just dive in and make it happen! I plan on making your hands free die holder and spring style cut off blade holder as well. Excellent ideas. Love them both.
Thanks again.
@@bruce150 That's great! I love having some kind of mill table on the drill press and almost never use my mill to drill. On the current mill table and the slide table I had before the vice was never removed. I had a few 1 foot square pieces of 3/4" plywood with a 2x4 mounted to the bottom. If I needed a table without a vice and just clamped the 2x4 in the vise.
I've seen this table on Amazon, and I was immediately impressed with how wide the bottom dovetail is, giving good support to the table, most have very narrow bottom dovetails that let the table rock. It was nice to see someone take it apart to see what it's like, is a lot for the price, and if you're willing to fiddle about with it ( perhaps scrape in the slideways, perhaps add ball screws or DRO ) it could be a very useful milling table.
Personally I don't think the castings need any work aside from sanding the corners. the lead screw was kind of a pain to deal with because it was a little big in diameter. If I had it to d over I'd probably install some cheap DROs and put smaller lead screws in... or maybe leave the factory screws. I will say, after the modifications I love this table.
you haven't seen Vevor on amazon, the ones on Amazon, Ebay, Aliexpress etc are fakes.
@@i-_-am-_-g1467 who do you think makes fake Chinese products?
Purchased an Interstate 2 axis mill drill table on-line for cheap...$175.00 - 6" Table Width x 19 Table Length, 7-1/2" Cross Travel x 11" Longitudinal Travel, Slide Machining Table - 5" Overall Height, Two 9/16" Longitudinal T Slots, 10-1/2" Base Length x 8" Base Width...The claim, that it was new.......Unboxed..coated with Cosmoline... Took table completely apart - soaked and brush scrubbed in ZEP industrial citrus cleaner all parts in/out rinsed and dried thoroughly Oiled everything with Hoppes gun oil and set everything up to inspect and or re-assemble. The castings are certainly much larger and were not quite as nice as your Vevor model but the machined ways are very smooth and with some tuning no slop in either table. Both "X" &"Y" axis lead screws are metric Acme thread (not my favorite). Acme are beautiful threads, I just don't happen to like metric all that much but then again, everything with this table is metric............."X" - axis lead screw turned true on a friends lathe...surprisingly, no wobble...But had seriously peened over 8mm threads on both ends of the "X" axis lead screw. "Y" - axis lead screw was another thing.....10mm portion toward hand wheel, appeared to be bent. Chucked in the lathe, serious wobble. A machinist friend was, believe it or not was able to straighten this lead screw. So when re-chucked it was amazingly true..(will wonders never cease) Also, (I am the kind of person that desires to have the "Y" - axis lead screw terminated with a "cup-end thrust bearing, so the end of the lead screw doesn't just wobble all around) this was the case with is table as well. So, the very end of the "Y" lead screw protruded into a bored hole at that end of the table. To fix this, the 1/2" end of which was machined down to 10mm, the hole at that end of the table was re-bored and fitted with a nice fitted cup end thrust bearing........Both lead screw nuts appeared to have been manufactured by a high school student in machine shop....Hand wheels and dials and table jibs.........I am replacing the hand wheels with something more substantial and as both lead screws have keys/key ways the new hand wheels are as well, keyed. The dials will be a gotcha for me all around......You are the first person that I have seen that has a set-up for incrementing dials and produced some very excellent ones in a following you tube video. All together this beast cost a little more than $300.00. But I still don't have the dials...........Do yo by chance know anyone that does that kind of work..made to order??
Your table turned out very nice.....you really needed to replace what you had before....I'm somewhat "OCD" so, for me , "a lot of precision is good, but a lot more is, more better"!!!
The dials were actually much easier to make than the new lead screws. I don't know of any dials but you should try making them.... as long as you are using 10 TPI
Thanks for sharing, the video is interesting. Splitting the nuts you made would be a easy task to allow for some adjustment to minimize any back lash, both X and Y nuts. Drill press is such a great tool.
I've done in the past. Right now the backlash is good
Thank you once again for inviting us into your workshop for a learning experience and a friendly visit. During the build I kept on comparing your solution, remachining the tool versus adapting a very inexpensive Digital Read Out. Your solution is very durable, reliable and cost effective. A DRO is much more expensive, not as durable, but has buttons to push and pretty colored lights that flash at you! I was torn between the two solutions!
The DRO is a GOOD option and maybe $120 to $150. My dials and screws were about $50 but also a lot of work.
Have been looking at this exact table on Amazon, after watching this I'm ordering it.
Like the lead screw update as well .
Great presentation thanks for posting
Thanks, I bought a second table for another drill press and put cheap DROs on it. I left the original lead screws on it but I think I will replace them with 3/8" all thread. The thread on the original lead screw is very fast.
While you have the slides apart, consider adding oil channels in the sliding dovetails and oil holes to apply way oil at assembly and in the future. I have a similar slide assembly that I will be reworking as a component of a tool grinder I am building. I enjoyed this video immensely!
Thanks. Yeah the oil ports are a good idea!
Appreciated your review -- guess that's why we need to think of this Chinesium tools as being DIY projects.
Thankyou for the video -- I like the way you approach projects. I'd imagine you'd have been a great shop teacher.
Children don't get to learn such things these days -- I'm so thankful for a DAD that really taught us how to work on projects.
I purchased the same/very similar unit from Mophorn a couple years ago for my drill press.
Unfortunately, they just shipped it from China with the original single wall of thin cardboard and no padding, blocking or
anything inside. The unit even had the handles on it when shipped. Came with one handle broken off the other mashed.
And the X rod was bent badly. They did not want to return it, or have me give it a bad review, and
they badgered me, calling EVERY day. We give you 10% off, then it was 20% etc. No I want a return.
Did not know if I could fix that shaft, and cost of new wheels alone was 20% of what I paid for the unit.
It would be easier to buy another unit. I did get them to return, but they did not want it shipped back.
About a year later I was either going to toss it out or repair it. And was able to carefully torch and bend that shaft
to where it was very close and got new handles and it does work. Was hoping I could do some very light milling on
my drill press (a 1953 Craftsman) with brass bushings, and frankly almost a mm of side play at the business end.
No - the chatter even on Alum was quite astounding - a definite NO GO. Been buying the parts for building a vertical mill (no quill).
Hopefully I will get the time, ...someday LOL. Could use that x-y stage as a first one for that mill; before I build a proper
one with ball thread rods and NEMA23 motors, want to be able to do CNC if case arose.
RH
Mills need to be a lot more solid then you might think. My drill press is fairly solid but will not do aluminum. Wood it easy however.
Good job Mark, by far the most interesting unboxing & review I have seen in a very long time!
Wow, thanks!
Gday Winky, overall the table is good value for what you pay, doing the modification is not that necessary but certainly improves the functionality, it’s much the same with small import machines like a mini lathe or mill, the way you have done this showing it can be done without a milling machine was a great idea, overall you have a perfectly functional XY table that’s much better the original, great job and very well explained, Cheers
Thanks... If your okay with Metric (which I think you are) all you'd need is better dials. However, the 4mm per turn is very strange to me. That math is irritating! How many turns to move 37.5 mm. Crazy
If you want to further reduce backlash, you can make a second nut for each leadscrew, and position it such that each nut is engaging on opposing threads.. i.e. if one nut is engaged on the left-hand side of the thread, then the other would be on the right-hand side. backlash is really just the amount of movement needed for the thread landings to engage on either one side of the nut's thread landings, or the other. by using opposing landings, and having the nuts positioned so they are always engaged, you eliminate the backlash ( as much as possible without introducing too much friction to cause binding)
That's similar to what I did on my cheap chinese lathe/milling machine combo.
These units have .020 backlash on the cross slide.
I took a piece of UHMW and drilled a hole in it the size (or slightly larger) of the root of the acme thread.
Then I heated up the end of the acme thread with a torch and screwed on the UHMW.
This causes a perfect fit. Let it cool.
Next drilled and tapped two holes (one on each side) of the UHMW and installed screws. These are used for pushers.
Next run the UHMW along the acme thread until you reach the acme nut.
Tighten those two screws until you have no backlash.
My cheap lathe/mill now has .002 backlash according to my dial indicator.
Mr Pete did a lot of work here and only got a slightly better table in my opinion.
I would sure like to have seen him put a dial indicator on it to actually show the backlash. I bet it was a lot.
Making a backlash nut is really easy.
In my explanation above it might sound complicated but it's not.
I've done this in the past. The backlash really isn't very bad. Thanks for the comment.
Love the job you did on the X/Y table. The thing has a good casting. The socket head screws should be recessed slightly in the handles. Ask me how I know. My Colchester lathe came with the tail stock (made one) missing the handle, only the cap screw sticking out. Throw it in the lathe, take a small boring bar, bring her in a little. The threads might need to be cut deeper.
There are a few flaws but overall its a good table.
Looks to be what some refer to as a "kit" tool...some assembly (and cleaning and filing and smoothing) required. Good bones, though, and a good place to start. Thanks for the review.
Good assessment!
Hi Winky. I got my mill table apart. I filed some of the rough edges. Then took a rough Diamond honing board to the flat parts. Degreased everything and cleaned it up. One thing is that I could not find the right tap to finish the threads in the handle wheel. The threads don’t go all the way through and the bolt won’t tighten. But I’ll use nylon washers to take up the slack.
I sprayed some T-9 rust protection on the parts then sprayed GlideCote over all the sliding parts.
Putting it back together now.
I seem to have an extra washer where the bearings go around the lead screw. I think it came from the long lead screw on the inside. Maybe to take up some slack?
P
I'll bet it works great now. I like this table... too bad they didn't pay more attention to details around the lead screw.
Nice job bringing it up to your standards. I was a little surprised that you didn’t slice a section of your lead screw nuts off and install some set screws so you could adjust the backlash. Thanks for the review, I have been looking at that table.
As it is now the backlash is less that .010" so not too bad. If i wears much I may split the nut but I suspect that will be years down the road. Thanks
Well sir your ability to spot and correct manufacturing and design concerns is to be commended. Your fabrication skills are beyond reproach. Your ability to review an item so that others may use your experience with said item to educate themselves further regarding said item and therefore form a more knowledgeable, well founded, decision regarding their potential acquisition of said item is absolutely horrendous. We have no more knowledge about the out of the box functioning of this mill bed now than we did when we got here. (OK, so maybe I have a LITTLE better idea)That said I watched it all front to back and am now headed to part 2. You've gained a new subscriber as well. So for a guy that does flat out crappy reviews, you ain't at all bad my friend. lol
HAHA.... Thanks! (I think?) Maybe my summery at the end of part 2 will change your mind. Ultimately (if I did not make it clear) the mill table is usable out of the box with the addition of a DRO. Modifying the lead screws was a lot of work and the DRO is fairly easy to install. Unlike the lead screws and brackets the castings were excellent. It's kind of like a house, you have to start with a good foundation. The rest can be fixed.
I believe the hole thru the block was drilled at an angle to be able to adjust backlash by loosening the attach blots and rotating the block slightly.
Nah,... it was just sloppy workmanship. With a 1.5" (approx.) thread depth skewing the nut would not do much anyway.
Good video Mark. I was hoping it would be a just unboxing as to the quality of the Vevor products I have been using are top notch quality. I have 2 little (unknown brand ) x-y tables i got from Little Machine Shop that I paid $80 for but was so damaged when i got it and had missing parts they had to send me another one. So now I have 2 of them that I have never used because they are just too light weight to even use. thanks for the video.
The vevor table is good out of the box if you don't mind sloppy lead screw bearings and attach a DRO. The way I went with dials was more work and required less clearance in the bearings
I went ahead and purchased one of these and as you say, petty amazing for the price. The one I received is exactly like yours, even the packaging is the same. I noticed that the one shown on the Vevor link as well as on Amazon and Walmart show a unit that has more gib adjusting screws and has a cover over the lower lead screw on the inside of the base. I wonder if there are more differences, perhaps one is an upgraded model.
I wondered about the cover also but never noticed the additional gib screw. I think maybe the cover limited travel a little. Mine moves about 3/4-inch over spec.
Nice video. Wondering if you’ve had any ideas about putting stepper motors on it , mount to your milling machine table and have a 2 axis CNC table. Similar to your CNC wood lathe.
That would be interesting to try although I'm not sure it would be worth the time and money. Most of what I do on the mill is straight moves. With the wood lathe CNC is a huge advantage because it always involves curves that are very hard to duplicate with X Y moves.
I was thinking of getting this and fitting a cheap DRO to "fix" the metric dials, but your lead screw upgrade probably improved it quite a bit over just converting it to imperial.
The lead screw was a pain to get lined up right. The DRO would be way easier. Otherwise it a good table.
Just bought a section of ¾ all thread that is quite hard grade 9 for a pulling tool. Never new it was available at a fastener supply store.
Cool... thanks for watching.
Great Job of upgrading the Table. It’s too bad they don’t spend just a little more Time to do it right at the Factory. The Castings were good, it was just all the sloppy Work they did on the Lead Screws and the rest. I guess they don’t have a Quality Control. Anyway, Thanks for showing us how you fixed the Problem. Really good Job of making it right.😁👍👍
Thanks! Yeah, the table castings are nice. The rest had all the right parts like thrust bearing but like you said, sloppy workmanship. Kind of like a 10 year old might do. Honestly, the easiest way to use the table is DROs.
Ok Winky. This is my last intrusion on your peace. I assembled the parts and found that the top table was very stiff. So on your suggestion, I opened it up and found that one of the bolts that holds the lower lead screw nut in place was rubbing on the upper lead screw. I took it out and used my grinder to reduce the diameter of the Allen head top. That did the trick.
I might have made a mistake by applying a thin coat of silicon synthetic grease to all the sliding parts. It may be too heavy. I don’t know.
After reassembling everything, the upper stage moves without any bumps although it’s still tight.
The big problem is that I can’t center the mill table on my drill table because the lower turning handle hangs below the lip of the table. This mean putting a piece of wood underneath to raise the mill table.
On top of that, I have a 4” mill vice that sits on top of everything. The weight is considerable and I don’t think my 20” Jet 20MF drill can handle it. Raising the table up and down is frightening.
I just bought this drill press and I’m unhappy with it. I should have gotten the floor standing Nova instead.
Thanks.
P
No worries please intrude anytime!
>I can’t center the mill table on my drill table because the lower turning handle hangs below the lip of the table.
I think you might be able to swap the hand wheels but I'd have to look at mine.
yeah... the mill table is handy but also hard to deal with on a standard drill press column. That's why I made a 4 x 4 column and power lift for mine. By the way... if you feel like taking the challenge most drill press heads slide of the top of the tube and clamp. You can make yours into a floor model with a square column. If you do, the most critical part is getting a short section of tube welded to the top of the 4x4 tubing absolutely square.
Well, this was quite educational. I'm so glad I have your videos to learn from, and enjoy in the process. There is a cross slide table in my future at some point and it's good to know this one has potential.
I'm planning on converting my drill press to a square post at some point too. It just seems to "solid" things up. I have an old Dayton that is in need of a good going over.
Thanks for sharing your shop with us!
Glad it was helpful! I love my square column drill press although it flexes a little when drill large holes with a lot of pressure. Most often this is not an issue but if you make the modification from my plans make the two arms that hang down a bit wider. They flex a little.
@@WinkysWorkshop Ok. Good to know!
@@markhedquist9597 I think it's a still a worthwhile build but I'm always trying to make things better. One thing for certain... it's 1000% better than a round column.
May i suggest to check out the " oldham coupler" which takes out the misaleignment issue for your wonderful crosstable improvements.
That might have been easier but I got it aligned. Thanks for the suggestion.
Great review,Mark.Thank you.
Thanks you for watching!
Hi, really enjoyed the video. Can I ask what make of lathe that is? it looks like a nice piece of equipment.
Thanks! The lathe is a 1931 South Bend 11 84A. th-cam.com/video/vrXBkqC6ttc/w-d-xo.html
Nicely done Mark. Well worth the money in my view. The castings alone are worth more than what you paid. The mods are time well spent. And doing the metric threads on the SB made me smile and think back to our conversation. "I like it" !!! Gilles
Thanks... and yes, I do metric all the time. Threads the depth os a nut are easy but it gets more critical if they are much deeper.
Hi Mark ! I have the same 'unit' , but I'm just going to use 1/2 - 10 Acme threaded rod . 'Picked up a few 3' sticks from ZORO for a very fair price . . . * way before I got this X-y table . . . I used some of the acme rod for replacing a cross slide that was really hurting !
I spent almost 20 hours working on my table to get it fitting much better - I filed, then scraped the rough machining on all the wear surfaces EXCEPT the dovetails , ( which were fairly smooth ) 'Don't believe that de - burring is in the vocabulary of cheep Chinesium !
I'm actually intending on using my setup for 'light' milling , so accuracy is an absolute MUST !
I saw your video on making the dials for this , THEN I wondered WHY youtube didn't send any notification - they're getting pretty bad about it ! SO . . . I bypassed watching the dials being made , to see this one FIRST ! 'Glad I did !
I think my setup is going to have a longer X travel , by repositioning the NUT ! Same is true with the Y movement . . . I can get 6" of cross travel , & 10" of longitudinal travel ! * Might as well milk it for as much as I can ! Great job on yours . . . I replaced the stock ( garbage ) gibs with cold rolled , & put dimples on all of the gib screws , along with turning them into 'dog points' . 'Think I'll use brass tipped screws on the LOCKS . . . along with a longer 'lever arm' - ( they don't get snug enough to suit me ! )
On to your dial making video ! Thanks for sharing your endeavors !
Good idea on the gibs and set screws and honestly I think 1/2" 10 acme would be better even if you have to sleeve the end bearings. The 3/4" was a very close fit.
i think you touched on something. Many of these parts or tools we want to buy are expensive, but there are Chinese versions. As you did here, you can make leadscrews, buy bearings modify and fabracate a lot of little things, but the main casting is one thing you cant make. Their castings tend to be rough. basically any thing i buy from lathe chuck to xy tables like this, strip, clean and see if any improvement can be made. Its a trade off many hobbyist can make, cheap tool , plus a little project to do. It is important you manage your expectations properly
I agree totally. Thanks
Hi Mr Winky, when building my mill I used the same table but replaced the Acme threads with ball screws and blocks, works a treat and virtually no backlash 👴🏻👍
That's cool. Yeah the table and castings are good
I used to work at a Ballscrew factory in Coventry 🇬🇧, fitting ballscrews is the way to go
@@grahameblankley3813 That would make it a bit more cost effective I think.
Hey Terry, what size ball screw did you use on this table modification, is 16mm too big?
@@thetattooshow2751 Would love to know that also as I am contemplating purchasing one for the same modification and can see that on one axis 16mm would be fine, the other it might be a tight fit for the ball screw nut in the space
was lead screw swap mainly to go from metric to imperial? Any performance improvement in doing the swap?
Mostly to make them inch but it also helped with backlash. If I was doing it again I might simply add DROs and keep the old lead screws. The new lead screws were a lot of work and hard to get the alignment right.
24:56 on a project this size you can use a lathe as a mill think of the head stock as a mills headstock or spindle laying on it side now all you have to do it clamp your work to the tool rest and use the x y axis on the lathe to mill your key slot. Its crude but it can work.
There is always more then one way to skin a goat.
It works! Thanks
Hi, I just discovered your channel a little while ago, i really appreciate your videos for being clear and concise. I have a question for you regarding this Vevor compound table if that’s ok? Long story short, i have a quite old very solid German Weik horizontal milling machine, which has a dial feed only for its y axis. It’s X and Z are fed with levers, very solid and tight, but especially the X is not suitable for milling a part by feeding with the lever, its not slow and gentle enough, if you know what i mean. So, i need a single axis dial feed option, but they are impossible to find here in Oz and an XY compound table like this Vevor would end up being too high/close to the cutting tool. So i am thinking that this Vevor looks like the X feed/table section comes off the base and could be used (when mounted on say a flush to the dovetail plate bolted to the mills table) as an X axis feed? So my question is does the top X axis/table section still function on its own after removing from the base/Y section please? (Phew)
I'd say you could make it work although I'm not sure how well. It's solid but nothing like a table on a milling machine.
Ok, so i gather from your comment that the top x axis table does function when independent from the bottom section. Ill consider other options and decide if this is the best way to go as I haven’t received any other better ideas for the machine i have. Thank you heaps for your reply, I really do appreciate your taking the time and trouble to respond.
@@robertodimartino7412 That is correct but I'm not sure its solid enough to use o a mill.
Hey Mark, what are you going to do with the old table?
Sorry, I sold it already.
I too was emboldened to buy one of these mainly due to your excellent review. I have been a sub and enjoy all your content as it is down to earth without all the noise and clutter of unwanted music or frivolous commercial-sounding content out there. I am in the process of cleaning up and even smoothing the gibs to make it work as good as possible. I don't own a metal lathe to make the kinds of mods you did to make it super smooth and even more precise.
One question I have is can I use a shim around the lead screws to make them tighter against the hole on their respective holders? At least the lead screw nuts are threaded straight in the unit so I don't have to worry about that causing the biding of the lead screws
I think maybe boring the hole and pressing a sleeve in would be the best approach. Also you can buy cheap DRO's for maybe $60. This is easier and probably more logical than dials
@@WinkysWorkshop The DRO sounds good. BTW, if you could offer some of your shop-made sleeves, I would definitely buy them. I am sure there are many non-metal working DIY'ers like me who could make the best of such minor upgrades for reasonable cost, at least to those in the USA as the shipping will be reasonable
For someone that is not a machinist and would like good or better than good compound mill table "like this unit" for a floor mount drill press what is your choice as an out of the box unit in inches?
I lov how you can make anything you want from raw stock... You have great video's to get lost in for a few hours.
Thanks Don,
The mill table is great but the lead screws are not. They are metric and 4mm per turn. If I was going to do this again I would probably buy some cheap DROs instead of converting the lead screws.
Now to finish the project you need to get your dremal with a cutting disk out and put some oil groves in the ways and then install some oil zirk fittings. I have done that to all of my Chines mills and lathes. They like this table came with no provision for oiling the ways. I put the oil grove in the gib ( on my rongfu 30) so you don't have to have the table in a special spot to oil that way. my gib stuck out far enough that could do it that way.
Probably a good idea!
Can you tell me how thick the casting is on the y axis, you see....
I'm trying to build an x y rotary table and the rotary I have is a fine english made thing with 4 slots arranged in a ❌ .
The XY that I have doesn't fit this and would require a couple of new slots to be cut, which I'm very hesitant to do, being a fine english made thing of good quality .
I'm thinking of getting one of these XY tables and fitting it...but may have to drill into the casting of the y axis so as to align each axis with 0° , 90° etc
What's the size of the dovetail, depth from top flat face to bottom flat face, and major dimension.
Don't want to spend the money only to find I can't do what I want
Send me a sketch in email and I'll see if i can answer your question winkysworkshop@GMX.com
Nice application of the "Vise-Grip pliers" for a material stop.
Ha... I need to come up with something better but it works.
Is this really an "upgrade", with the x nut off centre from the bearing holder and acme to UNC screws?
It all lines up now... and its a usable TPI instead of the weird 4mm per turn. I guess you might call it a rebuild instead of upgrade.
be interesting to see you spotting the bearing surfaces.
spotting? Not sure what you mean.
@@WinkysWorkshop for scraping in.
@@RedDogForge I didn't think it needed scraping.
@@WinkysWorkshop no? indicate it? if not how do you know without spittingg it? not trying to give you a hard time wink, just trying to get a complete understanding :)
@@RedDogForge I have indicated it on the long axis and its within .0005" the length of the back jaw of my vise and that's probably imperfections in the vise jaw. I know they call this a mill table but it's nowhere near solid enough for milling. I'm using it on a drill press to locate holes. Realistically it could be out .010" and never be a huge issue but I suspect it is much closer. Honestly I have considered checking it for squareness but otherwise I'm not concerned.
Thanks for posting the video, why did you need new lead screws? I was thinking of getting one of these, thanks.
I wanted them to be 10 treads per inch. This makes one turn .100" and makes standard dials work well. One increment on the dial is .001" . The original lead screw would work well with a DRO and this is probably a more logical approach. They were 4mm per turn. Even if you are used to metric 4mm is a bit awkward to use.
@@WinkysWorkshop Oh I see, thanks for the reply.
Been considering one of these myself just for the slotted table to go on my little CNC mill. Just not so sure it would appreciate slinging around what is probably a 35lb chunk of cast iron. Not sure the weight is worth the t-slots.
Appreciate the look inside one of these! Been curious about their quality for a while. Seems perfect for your intentions.
Yeah... I'd say about 30lb
nice review.nice job
Thanks!
Locking the gibs fairly snug before setting up the leadscrew nuts and brackets would have aligned the tables in the correct position first. 3/4" UNC a good choice for simple 0.1" per rev. Could the top be assembled with the handwheel on the left or would the nut have to be moved to the other end?
Interesting question! I have it assembled the same way I got it and the way it is in the pictures on the web site. The nut is close to the handwheel and stops the table travel going left right now but i suspect you could just turn the table around. The alignment on the nut might have to be adjusted but it would likely work well. The nut would be further from the handwheel which makes alignment less critical as well.
Would it be possible to turn the x table 180*? I would like my handle on the left side as apposed to the right?
I'm not sure really but I think you could. You could make a bracket on the other end and make the lead screw go all the way through as well.
@@WinkysWorkshop could the y axis saddle be turned 180? is it machined the same on both dove tails? i know this would put the gib adjustment screws to the back but i could deal with that. thanks
@@WinkysWorkshop could the entire y saddle be turned 180*? I realize that would put the x axis gib screws to the back has opposed to the front,but I could deal with that. If that would be possible, then the dial would be to the left and not the right. thanks
I purchased one of these 30 years ago from Enco. I did the exact same thing, as there was too much slop in the threads. At the time I got some low backlash rods and threads from MSC supply. I also recut the dovetails, as they were very rough.
I looked at Palmgren brand tables about 10 years ago, at a used tool store, and did not see any better quality.
I just looked at eBay for acme threaded rod, for stepper motor use, it seemed very affordable.
I only use this on my drill press, and I keep a quick adjust vise on it. I put risers under it for the same problem with the lateral feed crank handle as well. It just makes setup for quick centering of the drill where you want it. I never take it off the table. I made a plywood platten with a 2x2 tenon that I can clamp in the vise if I want a large flat area.
You sound like me and I agree. I also have a few pieces of plywood with a 2x4 glued to the bottom that I clamp in the vise. I never take the vise of the table.
My backlash is about .006" to .007" I know it will get worse with time but as long as it is under .010" I'm good.
It would be interesting to hear about any feedback you may have received from Vevor regarding the quality of those nuts. It's almost as if they've decided "nobody will see them so they can be crooked by 10-15 degrees." As a consumer there's no way I'd want to sink money into a product with that attitude about quality. For someone with your talents it's clearly a great starting point though. Great job.
Yeah.... the nuts and lead screws were all poorly made. It was kind of shocking as the castings were great!
Is that a south bend 10 L? I just restored one and am starting to get used to it. New subscriber
Welcome aboard! It's a 1931 11" 85A. It's kind of an oddball. Like the spindle size is 1-5/8" x 8 instead of 1-1/2". The gears are all different too. I don't mind the spindle but finding gears and other parts is a pain.
If you ever turned an ACME thread you'd know why they are expensive. How many blocks would you have gone through if you had to single point them internally before you got it right?
Yes I have turn acme threads and you are correct. I've only done one successfully and it worked but they looked a little rough. Standard threads are great for this application. The only time you really need acme is when the threads are under a high load. Despite the use of the word Mill in the name this table is usually not used for milling.
could not a spring over the screws overcome the lash on your homemade table?
I used the heck out of my old table. The only problem was that it would not lock in position. Less backlash would help but while drilling large holes the table would still move. The Vevor table is much more solid and the only real quality issue as the lead screws.
After a bit of hand scraping, it might be up to some precision work. For a drill press, I suppose it isn’t as important. The longer the thread, the less wear on the nut and the screw.
Yeah... its good for a drill press. The longer threads are good but very critical for alignment. The nuts are about a 1/2"... not too bad.
Nice to see a south bend junior lathe in action.
I have one as well from 1931 and am fond of it.
Do you still have the brass bushings?
I have some play on it which I need to address in time...
Its all original you mean the spindle bearings? Its an 85A I think 11-inch
@@WinkysWorkshop yes, I mean the spindle bearings, I will look at the type, but I believe it's an south bent junior 8 1/2
Nicely done, looks like you were taking the Stefan Gotteswinter approach of using the tool as-received as a casting kit, like he does, and making it up to snuff for your purposes. But as you say, for the price point, at least the castings were actually good!
Thanks! Yeah the castings are nice. Honestly, the original handwheels and lead screws worked fine if somebody wanted to install cheap DROs. They had maybe .015" to .020" backlash and loose bearing fits but it was totally usable with a DRO. It just had a bad feel to it. In my opinion the dials were useless and even if they were nice the 4mm pitch is not easy to deal with.
I’m really impressed with your video. I just bought the same mill table and I searched for what to do before assembly. That’s how I found your video.
But I don’t have a lathe or mill. What can you suggest I do without all the machining?
Also, I’m in the market for a lathe. What do you have and what can you suggest for under $4k?
Thanks,
Paul
Hello Paul. Great questions! First, the best way to make this table usable is to install DROs I modified mine with dials and lead screws just because i have the time and tools to do it. DROs are fairly cheap. Amazon has an 8" for $32 but the longer ones are about $70. You might try ebay too. For a lathe I'd consider going with an old used one like South Bend, Logan and Atlas but get one with a quick change gear box. You learn a lot restoring an old one. If you want to go with a new lathe I'd suggest a Precision Mathews. I've never had one but i know a few that have both their lathes and mills and they like them. Mr. Pete is a great resource for info on the old machine. I hope that helps. Thanks for asking.
@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks for the quick reply. I just opened my mill table, sled thing and noticed that the lead screws are not as good as the ones on your device. I wonder if they cherry picked one for you since you were doing a review.
I’m impressed with your confidence in dismantling the pieces. I’d be worried that I’d forget what goes where. But I archived your video and subscribed to your channel so I have a reference.
I recently restored my dads old ATHOL vice and that was a lot of fun. Bead blasted it, then two coats of 2k epoxy primer followed by 2k high fill and top coat.
I have my eyes on PM lathes. Great machines. I’m not sure I have the skills to restore an old one. But I’m open to the idea.
I want to get a mill and a lathe but my budget is tight. I think patience is best. Keep looking for deals on Craigslist.
Thanks for your help.
Paul
@@paulmanhart4481 My lead screws were okay but the associated nuts and brackets were a complete joke. With that being said, mine had about 1/4 turn backlash and worked out of the box. Also, backlash is always a thing unless you have ball screws so it's just about as easy to deal with 1/4 or 1/2 turn.
@@WinkysWorkshop winkster, you have been a lot of help. I’m glad I came across your videos. So talented and knowledgeable.
The number punch set you cited had 9 punches. Where’s the zero? Never mind. I’ll find out.
Cheers and Roebuck.
Paul
@@paulmanhart4481 The 9 and 6 are the same punch. It gets confusing... make sure you turn it the right way.
Hi I'm from the UK and just bought one of these tables so was interested in what you did. What do you call Standard thread ?? Have you ever thought of using Ballscrews, you can get them quite cheap?
Standard as opposed to acme of ball threads. It was cheap and I didn't care about load caring ability and to some degree backlash. I've tried to achieve near zero backlash with acme threads in a similar use and alignment becomes incredibly critical. I suspect ball screw might be slightly more forgiving but if I remember right I was having a hard time finding then in 10 TPI to make them work right with Inch dials. In hindsight cheap DROs would be the way to go. TPI and to some degree backlash is not an issue.
@@WinkysWorkshop What is a standard thread to you guys? Whitworth UNC UNF etc etc ??
@@stewartdavis8618 Yes... inch based UNC. Metric is better overall but I'm used to inches. Also Vevor mill table had a retarded 4mm per turn pitch that would be terrible to deal with even if you wanted to use metric dials.
Merry Christmas
Same to you! Thanks
This is a great project and this XY table will be more than good enough for drilling. Nice work.
I suspect 22:45 what seems like 1+mm of unnecessary clearance was there on purpose to minimize alignment struggle when assembling. The Y stage and the X stage have their own dovetail and gibs to keep their motion linear, this reduces the need for the lead screws to have precise radial positioning. The leadscrews' main concern is controlling movement and remaining stable in their axial directions. To this end, they can be allowed quite a bit of slop radially, explaining the 1mm shaft diameter delta. Making the neck of the new screw larger to more precisely fit the hole in the bearing block, you may have given yourself more alignment work toward the end with enlarging bearing block bolt holes, etc. to get the screw supporting parts to line up well enough not to bind. You got it by the end. Seems to work fine now, though..
I'm sure you are correct... making the bearings oversize made alignment easy.
I have the same drill press and I'm trying to understand how the lead screw assembly is supposed to function properly as is. Does anyone know the names of those types of nuts that come with it, and any other terminology that might help me uncover some reading material that relates to the specific use of lead screws as they come with this table. I don't have enough money to upgrade right now so I'm trying to do the best with what I've got. I've noticed the stock 51102 thrust bearing races have different size interior holes on what seems like the back race. Is this standard oir a fix for this job to make sure I dont put them on backwards? (The back race on first falls into the thread). The nuts used are antenna sort of nuts in a double nut arrangement. I've been pretty confused about this for a while and not sure what it is wrong with this arrangement and how these peices should work ideally. I think the problem is that the handle and the screw end peice that fits the bearings might not be accurate ... Anyways any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your video nice job on the drill!
>"I have the same drill press" Are you talking about the drill press or the mill table? The mill table lead screws and thrust bearing are a mess. I made new ones although it was a big job to get it right. Alignment is hard to get right. With that being said, the mill table functioned fairly well when I got mine. The only huge negative was the 4mm per inch lead screws. I work with inches but respect people that want to use metric but "4MM" per turn? This is not logical at all. I replace mine with 10 TPI so that one turn is 1/10" or .100" inches.
If you want to use the table as is a DRO is the best way to go.
@@WinkysWorkshop I dont have the money right now for that but I realized the problem I was having is mostly that the nuts tightened down on the bearings too much i ground a bit off on the front bearing holder peice that screws into the dovetail peices to hold the screws. Im gonna get ball screws when I can afford it but I want to get these screws working working good just because... Anything is possible.
i was thinking I needed bigger heavier X Y tables for my DIY Mini Mill, But after watching this video I can see this level is way over kill for my setup. Boy you took it to another level, great review and rebuild. Do you know of a smaller strong setup for X Y table, I am slotting Pot Metal on Model Trains and Aluminum Blocks into new Chassis and truck frames, Not steel or large parts. Accuracy is on level with a farm wagon. But i need Y travel 6 to 8 inches and Z travel 12 to 16 inches. What do you think? Dennis
Aside from terrible lead screws this table is good. If you're not worried about dials even the stock lead screws are ok. I got a second table for another drill press and put DROs on it. I'm using the original lead screws.... they are not the best but do okay.
Do you think the X screw / handle could be flipped to the other side? To be clear, the longer lead screw. Great video!
Yes... however, the lock down screw is also on the left. I didn't show it in the video but i put a long screw and knob on the lockdown so in my case the lockdown and handwheel might interfere with each other.
@@WinkysWorkshop I think I see what you mean. The y lock is on that side. About 6:51 by your right hand index finger. I missed that when I watched the video. I was considering using a table like this to add a milling platform for my lathe. That is why I would like the handle on the other side. That is if you imagine the table flipped 90 degrees. Then attached to the carriage, top facing the chuck. As such I would want the handles on top and operator side of the lathe. Just thinking through the use case where I might need to mill a slot longer than my carriage moves or vise could support (assuming normal lathe milling setups, which are maybe 4” -6” max). Can’t really just add machinist jacks!
@@ironhead65 That's an interesting idea as long as the swing on your lathe is large enough. It should work.
I only have one negative thing to comment on this video. Please use a way cover on the lathe when using emery cloth. The grit mixing with the way oil is like lapping compound for the bed ways. My South Bend lathe is a 1944 lathe, so it is a year older than me, and is in better shape than I am. I try to keep it that wy by not wearing out the bed ways. I wipe the bed down before using the lathe, then lubricate it well before turning it on. Cast iron will also act as lapping compound, so cover before machiningon it.
Yeah... that is a good idea. I will say, I always clean the ways after grinding or sanding and at the end of the day the way oil is applied. Probably a good idea to cover them anyway.
Another good project, seems the the table is good valve for the price.
Building that square column drill press is a project on my bucket list, is there anything you would do different having lived with for a while?
Yes on the square column drill press. I plan on doing a follow up video on this build so watch for it. The problem with my current design is that the lower support arms flex. I think two large plates on the side would work better than separate arms. The video will be posted this coming Friday (I hope).
Walt, I changed my mind on upgrading my square column drill press. The reason I was going to modify the design is to try and reduce the table flex. Most often the flex is not an issue but when drilling over 1/2" the table drops slightly. I'm guessing in most cases less that .030" but if you apply a lot of pressure you can make it flex nearly .100". Anyway, I think its a very worthwhile project but if you build it, make the two lower support arms a little wider. This won't eliminate the flex but it will help a lot. Also, send me an email if you have any questions. winkysworkshop@GMX.com
That thing was a mess. Nice cleanup there Winky. Thanks for the video.
Yes it was
First thing great videos keep them coming, but I have a silly question, I received my one of these a couple of days ago, everything seemed to be good until I went to put the handwheels on to find out there was no keyway in the smaller one, my mic is only metric being frome the UK and they are not 3mm and not 4mm so would you or one of your subscribers across the pond do a quick measure up so I get the right grooving tool, best regards to you and your subscribers, David.
I no longer have the original screws but I'm sure mine had a keyway. I'm using the original handles. I think I bored them a little but they should have part of the keyway... Yes, I just checked. 3.8 MM. Weird... 4mm would be close enough i think.
@@WinkysWorkshop thank you, much appreciated, tried to get a replacement from vevor but they didn't want to know, told me it was usable without the handwheel !!
@@bme-uk Oh that is weird. I think they have some chinese ladies answering emails. They probably don't have a clue what a key or keyway are.
Only one can wonder !! I ended up drilling and Tapping a 4mm, when I have time I will machine both hand wheels down like you have done,
Oh, I also have Impressart enamel marker for making the marks on the wheel black. I’ll let you know how it works. $7 at Amazon.
Interesting... steel is easier to mark. Aluminum is hard. Let me know how it works
@@WinkysWorkshop Another thing I didn’t know. But I’ll keep you posted.
My only concern is that floating lead screw nut on the bottom. Needs to be attached to the middle plate. Concerned about alignment on both lead screws.
I have my eyes on an old South Bend lathe not far from me. Guy says he has upgraded a lot of things. Asking $2,500. Thoughts?
P
@@paulmanhart4481 That depends on the model and condition. I sold my Logan high... $2500 I think. My south bend might bring $2000 or maybe 2500
Wink, you should do some research on our crazy inch system, it's not as bad as it's made out to be and it has many advantages over the metric system. It was developed by craft and tradesmen that were shipbuilders. The main thrust was to quickly find the center point in your head, such as half of 1/4 is 1/8, half of 5/16 is 5/32, Half of 5/32 is 5/64, and half of 5/64 is 5/128s, really someone spent much time developing or system and for what we do it probably really is a good system. I am fluent in both systems only because my life career change put me in a company that only used the metric system since they were German. Since retirement though I've gone back to the imperial system.
Ultimately I think metric is still better but I'm totally used to imperial and it does have advantages. The only thing that bothers me is having to look at decimal conversion chart. Most are in my head now but i still have to look sometimes.
I don't know how you read back over you comment and still claim it's a good system. It's a hacked together system that some people have just become accustomed to. It's a revolt against our 10-base counting system.
@@genaugmen4505 Funny comment. I agree that 10 is better but I sometimes the math is way easier with the inch system. Metric is hard to divide into 3's and 4's. Even feet and yards are a easier. Clocks are 12 and circles are 360 for the same reason.
😮 I can't imagine being that good at something.
wow... thanks!
Do you think they made the hole crooked so they could twist it on the lead screw to minimize backlash?
Not really... I think they just screwed up.
Great video winky, keep'um coming.
Thanks again!
Of course
yep
Did you consider a 2 axis DRO for one that matches the quality of that table it is under a $100
If I was going to do this again I would go with the DRO. After making this video I found a couple on Amazon for a total of about $65. Plus I have the same DROs on my mill. They work perfect but they will not tolerate coolant and the battery life could be better. Actually I guess a 4 to 5 month battery life isn't that bad. If you remember to turn them off I'm guessing it would be several years.
Nice 👍🏻
Thanks ✌️
Greetings to the Winkster. Well, I hope I don’t have to bother you anymore after this. Two things.
1. The enamel pen was an almost failure. The grooves were so shallow that when I wiped off the excess, most of the groove ink went with it. But I’d call it a 50% improvement over unmarked.
2. I have my table reassembled. Everything seems to be ok…BUT, the upper stage is a bit stiff. Not sure why this is. I played with the nuts and set screws on the side to loosen it a bit, but that only gave me about 10% more ease. I’m wondering if it’s the two black nuts that go between the green block and the handle wheel. I was uncertain about how tight to make those.
Can you provide any insight? Checks in the mail. 😬
Thanks,
Paul
I'd say its lead screw alignment. The nut and end bracket are not perfectly aligned. I had to mill or drill the bolt hole in the bracket that bolts to the table This allowed the bracket to move over a little and align with the nut.
@@WinkysWorkshop
Hi Winky. I’m breaking my promise and contacting you again.
First, my mill table is running smooth, thanks to your help. I have 2 steel blocks (1 x 2 x 3”), with a 1/2” hole in the center. I will use these to raise the mill table to clear the drill press table lip, and secure through the holes and t nuts. So all is good.
Second, I want to deepen the scribes on my dial gauge using your technique. It looked like you used a 360 tooth saw blade as an indexing wheel. I have two applications for this. First is the markings on the mill table. Second is the markings on my rotation stage for the drill press vice that sits on top of the mill table. This has scribes every degree. So how do I make a 1 degree indexing wheel?
Many thanks again.
And keep your eye out for a good used metal lathe for me. Southbend, Logan, Monarch or whatever.
P
@@paulmanhart4481 I was using a 100-tooth blade. This is based on the thread pitch of most lathes or in this case the new lead screws on my Vevor mill table. This is why I changed the lead screw in my table, to make it 10 treads per inch. This makes each of the 100 marks equal to .001", One turn = .100" and ten turns = 1.00" . The original lead screw was 4 mm per turn which is really hard to work with even in metric. 10's are easy to work with.
Awesome mods! I think the keyed shafts were necessary because the dials and hand wheels were a single unit. Without the key, they could spin around the shaft giving a false reading, if the locknuts loosened.
I was thinking the same but honestly it would take a LOT to slip them. I don't think it will be a problem.
@@WinkysWorkshop Agreed. The set screw will prevent it from moving.
I got only to the part where the table moves when drilling round stock because of the backlas and did not watch any further. WTF, dude? Is it so difficult to fixate the table while drilling?
That was the old table. Yeah, I never could figures out a way to lock it. Most the time it wasnt an issue but I needed something reliable.
did I miss some were why you were replacing the lead screws? I am assuming to make US reading's?
Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Yes, I wanted 10 Threads per inch. The original was weird even for metric. 4 mm per turn.
Well done.
Another kit from over seas.
Thats a good way to look at it
A tip for centering on the 4 jaw you can get a second center and put it between your tailstock center and into the punchmark on the block and indicate off of that since most centers have a center hole in the back if your punch mark isn't deep enough you can spot with a small center drill then you can indicate on the flat section on the center instead of the block 👍👍👍
Yes that would work well I think. I'll keep that un mind, thank.
Since u used 10 threads per inch rod is your table moving what u dial in on the the dials showed in pt2
Exactly. One turn is .100" and each small line is .001"
Instead of ordering all new thrust bearings (23:00).. You could have just drilled out that green flange and put a bushing inside it to tighten it back up--- and still use all the old thrust bearings. :)
The old thrust bearings matched the original lead screws. Total junk. They were also too big in diameter (ID).
@@WinkysWorkshop I don't doubt that they are junk. but my point was that you could have just made a bushing to match the "too big" diameter; anyway, it doesn't matter... new bearings are still an upgrade, like you said.
@@calholli Yeah, they might have worked.
nice one winky. you redid almost the whole table :P. great video as susual
Thanks you sir
I think if I made a review on this X Y table it would be more favorable. For the money you just can’t beat it. ~Ricvis
I agree to a point. I guess it depends on what you need and what you expect. It's certainly true that you could buy this table and install a couple of DROs and have an exceptional mill table. However, if you wanted to do accurately position work for drilling without DROs or modifying the lead screws you would struggle. The 4 mm pitch lead screw is ridiculous and all the related components are poorly made. However, the castings and table itself are amazingly good. Maybe I should have had two ratings. An out of the box rating of 4 and a rating of 8 or 9 for it's potential. I'll have to say... I am currently enjoying this table. After the modifications its fantastic.
Awesome video Winky! I have wanted and considered buying one of those milling tables. But after seeing what you went through, I may change my mind. Although the DRO option sounds like it may be feasible...
Yeah... the castings are good and the cost of the DROs are about what I spent. The DROs are a logical approach.
Wouldnt 10mm per turn dial mean you need 10mm per turn lead screw therefore next to impossibile to mill anything manualy? I think 4mm per turn is 1mm per quarter turn and seems like a normal hand motion also normal metric leadscrew pitch. But i am no expert at all. Great video though really really liked it!
4mm per turn is crazy. Tell me how many turns for a 47mm move. Ten per turn makes this very easy, the answer is 4.7 turns. Why would 10mm per turn lead screw make it impossible to mill anything (side note: this mill table is best used to position stock for drilling not milling)? Also, I made the table inch based and my lead screws were 10-TPI for the same reason.
@@WinkysWorkshop 10TPI isn't like 10 turns per 25.4mm or approximately 2.54mm per turn so even smaller than 4mm per turn? Or probably i am missing something somewhere
@@SuperHapticsOne turn is 1/10" inch or .100" inch. Yes 10 turns is one inch and yes slower than 4mm per turn. With a total movement of 15 inches the speed really isn't an issue. This is standard on most inch based mills and lathes. I believe metric lathes and mills are 5mm which would be 5 turns per inch (approx.). Speed is not much of an issue although on a manual mill with a 1000mm travel it might be. 10 Base is needed for manual mills and lathes.
Genial!
Thanks!
This is interesting.
This is a good mill table aside from the lead screws and bearing brackets In hindsight I think the best fix would be cheap DROs
Still seems like a great deal for the money.
Yeah, even with the crude lead screw and dials you could put a DRO on there and have a very nice mill table.
You did an excellent Job. If this piece said Made in USA and it was 1960! All you would have to do is give it a quick clean with less than $5.50 a gallon of gas. And bolt it to what ever you were bolting it to!
I totally agree. This table has good castings it's just all the sloppy machining that made it poor quality.
$5.50 a gallon of gas? Did you mean $.55 per gallon in 1960 which still sounds a little high?
Why do I have a feeling that after this video, the company are in the works to make a standard/imperial version available to some of us? Or they can advertise it as a great project.
I doubt they will do this although that would be nice. They didn;t even bother to make the metric lead ten based. It was 4mm per turn which hard to deal with. Say you want to make a 27 mm move. How many turns? If it was 10 based it would be 2.7 turns.
Wow - looks like some of the boring and drilling on my Lewis Shaper series. There is straight, sorta straight, and what I found in mine.
Great video enjoying.
All the best
Dan
Yeah that was not very good. It's a shame to put all that cast iron into a product and then mess up on something simple. Overall this is a very usable table but not much attention to details.