Western Approaches Command - Fighting U-Boats with Wrens
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- This week, with some apologies for the quality of the camera and mic (more explanation in the video), we bring you a look at the Western Approaches Command Bunker and it's role in winning the Battle of the Atlantic.
The Museum's website is here, they'd definitely appreciate your support:
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Why did you sign the official secrets act?
I know that this might sound like a stupid question. Was there ever a situation in which a gunnery training ship ended up having to engage in combat?
What is the super Lion class?
What is KW45? I found it is a british naval white paper but no one knows what it is.
G'day Drach, would you say that there are different schools of thought or theories on how naval history should be analysed, like in more general history, eg historical materialism, post-modernism. if so what are the key differences? ( I realise this could be to big a question to cover but a brief list would be cool), love your content by the way.
Lucky is what we are. Lucky that people like Drach and that nice museum director take time out of their own busy lives to do this. My hats off to you both for keeping the past alive.
Yeah. We are so lucky. Drach can take a mundane subject and make it interesting. In this case the Museum Director also has a passion for a fascinating place.
AGREED!:-) 🖖
After her performance as the sea mine in the Channel Dash video, I have absolutely no doubts that Mrs. Drach is the right person to consult on depositing bodies in the harbour!
Drach on the docks: **tinny little background whisper with every third word potentially audible**
Drach in the bunker entrance: **booming, resonant tone of an ascendant god**
Acoustics are a helluva thing.
Now, which British admiral gets a cameo on the word "g-d"?
29:50 Love the WATU coat of arms with the chessboard and checkmate.
I really love that it is a checkmate on both sides of the board.
@@Nick-rs5if That's from the WWI S-class destroyer HMS Tactician. I don't remember the story of how they got the badge, but it definitely fits them. Ironically enough, the name was later reused for a T-class fleet submarine.
The Museum Guy's enthusiasm is awesome. That is a fan of history right there. Loved hearing the excitement in his voice as he talked about all the stuff they found and hope to find.
Is it a Drach vid? Yes? Imma watch it. Sound quality? Don't care, Drach video. Still watching
Video and audio in a Drach work: not that important. I'm here for the content.
True, true...
True, although some subtitles may have been useful so we can get all that juicy content!
Great to hear of the WRENS' initiative and intelligence - and the willingness of the command to listen to them and put their ideas into practice. The same was true at Bletchley Park, where any of the women clerks who showed any aptitude were invited into the decrypt effort - and many made significant contributions.
Similar story in Australia where one bloke and about 20 women broke the German codes early in WWII starting with the books seized from a German freighter in Melbourne. The book Australian Code Breakers by James Phelps is an interesting read on how they did it.
Just to clarify for some and avoid confusion:
Women of WREN: Instrumental in defeating Nazis
Knights of Ren: Entirely pointless
Bravo!
🤣🤣🤣
4:24
i can see Mrs Drachinifel is doing very good job keeping Mr Drachinifel well supplied with tasty things of gastronicim kind :)
Salute to her for .
Awesome work, as ever, big fella. Favourite part? Standing THE WRONG SIDE of the handrail above the stairs. What's the use of having the place to yourself, and not making the most of it...!😂👍🇦🇺
The Health and Safety folks should be coming around any minute now...
I think he used a stunt-man/look-alike for that shot.
If anyone is in the Chicago area, the U-505 at the Museum of Science and Industry is no let down by itself. The exhibit also has alot of in depth material on the Battle of the Atlantic.
Visiting that sub, and showing it to my boys, is one of the things on my bucket list.
If you're in the MSI, make sure to swing by and take a look at the JU87 on display. It's one of two? Remaining in the world. There could be three, I don't remember.
2 hours north in Manitowoc, WI is a fully restored Gato class sub. In the water. Functioal. Ready to tour, and it can even be booked for an overnight sleepover, At least when this whole pandemic thing is over..
@@darrellsmith4204 on the opposite side of the pond, Gosport has the UK submarine museum. HMS Alliance is there, restored to her late ww2 condition and open to tours. Also there is one of the midget subs similar to the ones that attacked Tirpitz. a raised wreck of an early example British submarine and various mock ups of the crew accommodations aboard British submarines throughout the years.
About a half hour on foot and a short ferry crossing from Portsmouth historic dockyard. Well worth a day out especially since you can get a single ticket for all the attractions at both museums
Pittsburgh has a WWII era submarine in the Ohio River, as part of the Carnegie Science Center.
carnegiesciencecenter.org/exhibits/requin-submarine/
I went to the museum in 2012 and it was a highlight of my UK trip. When I discovered the museum I wondered why it wasn't getting more publicity. This video helps explain the history. The museum is a GEM and the story needs to be told. Thanks.
There's no need to apologize for the quality when the content is so good
Outstanding video. DRACHINIFEL and his chanel have got me literally obsessed with WW1-2 Navel history. Thankyou from Canada
Moral of the story: Don't mess with Wrens. They'll quickly devise a way to make you wish you hadn't been born.
And then send out a telegram questioning the validity of your parentage
Nothing more dangerous and manipulative than a young woman. If they'd helped out on the land battles, could have ended the war in a year or two.
It is interesting navy and airforce was quite open to the help of woman, while land force was kinda reluctant.
@@sepuk te British Army had the ATS. With women filling a variety of roles, from radar operation to AA gun crews. Like all branches of the British Military women didn't serve on the direct battlefield but the ATS came close in defending the home front.
They weren't just any Wrens - to be recruited in to WATU they needed a good mathematical education and I'm guessing the recruits for Western Approaches were similar. These are very intelligent Wrens (as Adm Horton found out - watch the Lindybeige video). The Germans didn't stand a chance considering the Wrens' husbands/boyfriends/brothers were on the escort ships and the Wrens wanted to keep them safe. Don't ever annoy a woman - it isn't healthy.
Naval history with a blooper reel, best part of my day.
Nothing better than eating lunch to a drachinifel video! The audio quality wasn’t that bad either
Drach you have found your true calling sir. You are absolutely fantastic at this, keep it up.
I'm absolutely fascinated by urban archaeology so the thought of rediscovering parts of Western Approaches HC is great.
Hopefully they can do it soon.
Also...the black jacket, sun glasses and beard has a very MI6 look sir.
Amazing video! Drac-ism: "U-Boats permanently under water."
Please convey highest complements to camera operator!
The camera operator was as steady as a tripod.
I think the camera operator was Mrs Drach aka the voice of the mine
You mean Admiral Dame Drachinifel? As good with a camera as she is with a fleet.
@@dropdead234 For some reason any time I hear "Dame Admiral" I start remembering the Honorverse books.
Awesome video! Thanks for the in depth look. Also, I really appreciate the blooper reel at the end! Reminds the viewer of the work that goes in to producing great videos, and often quite humorous.
Well done video and a great story about the critical part the Wrens played in defeating the German Uboat threat.
These are the stories that need to be told. Thank you so much for covering this. Keep up the good work!
Do more of these special access tours the public doesn’t get to see. Excellent.
It's not that I don't love everything you do it's that some things I love significantly more. And this is just incredible. Thank you so much.
Really enjoyed this one! Maybe not the best in terms of filming and sound, but what a great subject and - as ever - told with a great deal of authority on the subject. Well done!
I cannot help but marvel over the ingenuity of your grandfathers and grandmothers! Not to mention the resilience of the crews on the convoys, especially those on the merchant ships. One had to be pretty mad to sail on board one of the latter in the early years of the Battle of the Talantic, knowing all too well that the chance of being sunk by a U-Boat and consequently drown was immense. I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration. We - current generations of mainland Europeans - owe so much to the British determination to stand and fight. And I have no doubt the British still have that spirit in them.
Also a respectful salute to the people who succeeded in keeping the museum alive. This is history that should never be forgotten.
Cheers and kind regards from the Netherlands!
I do enjoy the way you make history alive.
Names, dates and results are the nuts and bolts of history, after a bit it's pretty dry stuff. What people were dealing with and a peak at the support staff makes this truly memorable. Well done Drach!
This is brilliant - I share these videos with my high school students, and they are following Drach. Thanks for making this accessible to a new, sadly non-reading generation.
This was fascinating. Never knew WRENS or any women's corps reversed engineered enemy tactics to counter them. And "sank" their admiral in war games.
Love this video, Sir! Thank you for taking your time to bring such an integral part of history to us. Hats off.
"They could see everything, they could even see the big board!"
That is precisely the idea, General.
"Gentleman, there will be no fighting in the war room!"
"Corrupting our precious bodily fluids"
Nothing beats watching Dr. Strangelove on the Big Board at one of the undisclosed locations. I also viewed Mars Attacks that way too.
The WRENs working in these plotting rooms were some of the smartest women in the country; thus, I'm not surprised they devised these tactics.
I want to know more about the WRENS gaming against Horton. And defeating him. Regularly.
So I ordered: "A Game of Birds and Wolves: The Ingenious Young Women Whose Secret Board Game Helped Win World War II" by Simon Parkin.
The RAF also had young women working in its command center, directing the RAF groups against German attacks. It also used women to ferry planes from the factories to the bases, freeing up fighter and bomber pilots for missions. The solution for the Spitfire's fuel stoppage was also solved by a woman, after much teeth gnashing by a lot of men. ^_*
And one of the teenage women volounteer truck drivers for the Commonwealth armed forces in Brittain would go on to be the third, and least problematic, of their Queen regents so far.😊
Kudos to Drach and Mrs. Mine! Great job, especially considering the technical challenges. Practice makes perfect, so please... carry on!
In his book, U-505, RADM Daniel V. Gallery described his assignment commanding a PBY-5A (Catalina) squadron out of Iceland on AntiSub warfare. The story includes some amusing stories ("Sank Sub, Open Club") but my favourite was his trolling of the British leadership at both RAF and the folks at Western Approaches Command. He noticed that all of his counterparts had lots of letters after their names (KBE, DSO, DSC, et cetera). He had none, so he took to appending DDLM on his signature. Eventually, one of his counterpart's curiousity won out and he asked Gallery what DDLM actually meant. Gallery told him it was somewhat like KCB - "Dan, Dan, the Lavatory Man". He also gets into why the Battle of the Atlantic was won with lots of data.
Fabulous vid. Thank you very much.
That was great and if it had gone on for another hour I'd be perfectly happy to carry on watching. I found it interesting and informative, it has wet my appetite and I want to know more. Thank you!
Thankyou for doing this and thanks to those at the facility that made it possible. Very enjoyable.
This was fabulous, Drach! Thank you for making this video. As a WW2 history buff, I knew about the Western Approaches, but I knew nothing of the management of the Approaches, so this really added to my knowledge. Same with the role and work of the WRENs. I had heard of them, but knew nothing of their contribution. I cannot imagine the intelligence, discipline, creativity and sheer effort they applied to do the work you described. Truly amazing. Thank you again. Roger in Wisconsin
Thanks Drachinifel for this totally fascinating video, even with its technical problems. i do hope more of this type of material will be coming up in the future.
Thanks for visiting and recording this.
Thank you for putting this great video together, Drach. I really enjoyed seeing something that took an in-depth look at this aspect of how the Battle of the Atlantic was managed, and the people who did so.
how i look forward to this gentleman's videos. comfort food for the minds of naval people everywhere. splendid work, as always.
Perfect content to watch while eating.
Though to be fair, it's perfect content in general. The on-location filming is a really nice addition.
Nice work Drach, and have a good summer! That goes for you reading this as well! :)
I really liked the wargaming part of this video. I think a video about the use of wargaming (from a naval perspective) would be a nice video in the future.
Lindybeige has already done this. th-cam.com/video/fVet82IUAqQ/w-d-xo.html
I believe the original 'kriegspeil' was a form of wargame used by the German army to train staff offers in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but I don't know of any professional naval use of wargaming prior to WW2.
@@CharlesStearman 'Kriegsspiel'. You had a little typo in there.
Or perhaps...a book on the topic. "A Game of Birds and Wolves: The Ingenious Young Women Whose Secret Board Game Helped Win World War II Hardcover" by Simon Parkin.
I'm still waiting for it to arrive, so my recommendation is conditional.
What strikes me is that the WRENS, thru sheer repetition of 'playing', must have become the most tactically astute ASW people on earth at the time.
They may not have ever been on a ship BUT, in my minds eye, I see them on a bridge...calmly directing the battle.
@@CharlesStearman The US Naval War College was using war games prior to WWII. A good start on the topic is th-cam.com/video/lj42mzT06jo/w-d-xo.html
I would enjoy a similar video by Drachinifel on the British perspective and use.
Drach this was an amazing video and i look forward to more live on site videos. Keep up the good work and keep safe 😃
I stumbled across this video looking for information on the western approaches. It did not disappoint. The information was interesting and to the point and the videos where a good length. The narrator was clear and engaging. Having watched a few more videos I'm definitely going to stick with this channel.
*[Insert joke about a particular Russian repair ship here]*
(Insert laughter here )
*Insert obligatory Japanese torpedo boat joke*
I guess that you are not referring to the Russian aircraft carrier (I mean "cruiser") Kuznetsov, which recently was badly damaged when its floating dry dock (imported from Sweden, ehum) sank as they tried to fix its old problems. The azur main is not a friendly place, especially for those who do not belong on it.
@@bjorntorlarsson whoosh
[Inserts a particular Japanese Repair Ship]
Visited the museum just this very week - well worth it, spent over three hours down there soaking up the atmosphere, and standing where people who helped win us the war stood.
Ah yes. Admiral King, the toughest enemy that the USN ever had to face.
Yes maybe. But he was the voice and force to get assets and resources to the Pacific theater. He knew the navy needed to be there. Big ships need to fight. Convoys do not need fleet carriers and capital ships to protect them. German fleet was impudent. Japan needed to be dealt with with a heavy hand. And King made it so. Albeit with the grand work of Nimitz to realize it.
+98i
Drach has done a video on King that was quite complimentary regarding his many positive accomplishments, and it gives some explanation for his antipathy for the Brits. I was quite surprised that Drach put together such a positive account of King's life. And I was surprised to learn of all the positive things King accomplished for the USN, despite his anti-British grudge. But then, most good leaders have some really bad flaws. And some very effective leaders are scum (Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Xi).
Admiral King in 1942 was the sole advocate for the Pacific War. He stood firm on that. For all King’s Anglophobia he got the American resources needed to defeat the U-Boats. Without claiming the victory was all America’s.
Bletchley Park .... a place of genius and excellence. And it's astonishing that the secret was kept throughout the war.
Churchill called the amazing code breakers there 'the geese that laid the golden eggs and never cackled' ......... God Bless 'em all.
A fantastic presentation, Sir! My compliments to you and the director for taking us all back 75-80 years. You might find it amusing to know that when the two of you were exploring the "off limits" areas, all I could hear in my mind was "I'll Be Seeing You" by Dame Vera Lynn, may she rest in peace.
What a *fantastic* walk-through you took us along for with you- we absolutely Loved this! Soo very cool- as well as important. Thanks a lot, man!!
I'm like a child going to sleep listening to this channel. Just wanting more of everything.
"- And then the princess and the knight married and lived happily for ever after.
- And then what!? What if, and how and who and on and on!?
- Hmmm, if I give you ice cream, do you promise to fall asleep then?
- Only if it is armoured and mined ice cream with a torpedo in it."
An amazing place. Thank you for sharing this!
Good stuff, Drach. I would like to add an addendum for the role of Captain F J "Johnnie" Walker CB DSO. There is a statue of him down at the Pier Head. Walker had great success in late 41 in command of 36 Group trying innovative methods on his own initiative - for example sinking 4 uboats attacking convoy HG 76 in Dec 41. The Operational Support Group was his suggestion to Max Horton, and some of his tactics the starting point for WATU. There are a couple of good books about him but only "Relentless Pursuit: The Story of Capt F J Walker CB DSO," is still a reasonable buy/find second hand.
ah yes. "The man who heard of the U-boat menace and took it as a job description".
I spent some time yesterday morning at the museum (13-Oct-2021) and am pleased to confirm that 'Johnnie' now has a number of info boards and busts.
not sure how I missed this one last year. lovely tour and so great to see the physical site open now. thanks!
Ah, brilliant you covered this!
I found the tactical analysis fascinating. Thank you.
A minor comment on pronunciation: Cobh in Ireland (formerly Queenstown) is pronounced “cove”. That’s Gaelic for you: throw away most of the consonants and replace them with different ones ;-)
Gaelic, it's not a language, it's a code.
Welsh is the same, LL and CH especially confuse people... and yes, they are counted as single letters in the Welsh Alphabet.....
@@alganhar1 My current approach to Welsh LL is to pronounce it HL, as in the Czech *hlavny nádraz̄y* (main station). Official textbooks suggest TL, which makes absolutely no sense to me. As for CH, that is the same as in Scots words, ie. KH, so nobody should have too much trouble with that.
The other big gotchas in Welsh are DD, which stands in for the old "eth" letter (ð) and should be pronounced DH (as in "this"); F which should be pronounced V, except when doubled FF; and W which is a vowel, literally "double U". The latter means that Maentwrog has three syllables, not two.
@@alganhar1 "Ch" is a single letter in Czech alphabet too. (reads the same as the German or Celtic "ch")
@@christopherconard2831 I know someone named Caoimhe and its pronounced queevah so yes it most certainly is a code lol
Video idea: minesweepers: did they suck; or were they a big deal, but ignored by history?
They did their vary job well
Just not enough bang and Zing as even PT or torpedo boats.
@@therealracerxtablet5162 Oh there was plenty of bang, just sometimes it was the minesweeper being launched into orbit by a mine that it did not quite miss.
My grandfather was captain of a minesweeper based in Bermuda (then later Recife Brazil) in WW2. He had only one probable sinking of a German sub. I don't know if he ever found any actual mines (he never mentioned it).
Pete Kuhns, that is a great story! Thanks for sharing!
Alan Hughes, lul
Drach just rocks on his videos. Thank you Drach.
For anyone interested in this, Lindybeige has a video where he goes into greater depth the methods of the wrens and a few other techniques they developed
This was a very nice change of pace from your normal videos. Already can't wait to see the return visit.
Cool really cool I’m glad someone has turned it into a museum and brought this history to light for others to see.
DAMN!!!! What a absolute gold mine of a find! It's like discovering the Troy of WWII!!! To me anyways.Always been interested/intrigued by the Battle of the Atlantic....the operations.....tactics.....oh hell.....every aspect.To find this sitting down there OMG!!! Besides all the normal day to day operational story....which is fascinating enough....the seemingly more mundane personal stuff like the candy wrappers......the discarded note.....that stuff just trips me out equally.Adding a more personal/human flavor to the story.Hell....if I had a cigarette butt from back then found there.....I'd frickin frame it.Once again.....an amazing eye/soul opening video.Sound problems??? I hardly noticed.History revealed "live".This was AWESOME!!!
I share your enthusiasm. I'm sure you've encountered "The Hunters" and "The Hunted" by Clay Blair.
Have you found "Convoy SC122 and HX229: Climax of the Battle of the Atlantic, March 1943" by Martin Middlebrook?
It really gives you the sense of time (often days) that it took for these battles to take place.
Middlebrook is perhaps best known for his series of books on RAF Bomber Command Raids.
Drach: An especially well-done episode. History classes in middle and high schools (grades 6 - 12 here in the States) and whatever the British equivalents are should include it. I wish the museum director well in his funding quest during the pandemic. My late father was in the Army during World War II in the European theater - Corps of Engineers - and the work done by those unsung heroes in Derby House needs to be remembered. There are many on this side of the pond who owe our existence to them. If I ever renew my passport, I owe them a visit. Thank you once again.
Nice video! Thank you. It is really refreshing to hear about the places and processes that actually won the WAR instead of where and how the BATTLES were won.
Thanks for the great vid. The director is an enthusiastic advocate for this important site.
That shot of Liverpool docks reminds me of an early memory related to me by my late father. He was evacuated to family in Canada at the age of four, and one of his earliest memories was departing Liverpool and seeing a very damaged destroyer coming into port with an immaculate crew lining the deck. Amazing what sticks in the mind.
Came for the video- stayed for the outtakes. I swear a 1 hr Drach video with nothing but out takes would be the best thing since Black Adder..
Despite the technical issues, a great video with great content. Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting video. When I traveled to the UK in 2015 my wife & I saw the bunker in London now turned museum as well as the HMS Belfast. Very interesting sites and thanks for bringing us along!
Very educational, which ultimately is the point of the channel. Thank you.
How did Ireland get shipments during the war, would Germans leave Irish flagged ships alone? 🤔
They were confused with Italian flags
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Mercantile_Marine_during_World_War_II
Irish ships were attacked by both sides in the Battle of the Atlantic.
I thought they just wrote "feck off wit yer you boats" on the sides of their ships. It's what Father Ted would have done.
You ID a ship before attack. All ships were registered and in a included photos or silhouette of them.
You'll want a remote mic (and transmitter pack, like they give news reporters), for outside stuff. Love your vids! Those last two minutes are priceless
As someone born in Liverpool, I did enjoy this video and the history of the place. 😊
I was expecting you to be 40+, you are so young compared to the vibes that your voice gives. This means many more years of your videos! Nice!
True story - at one point in his career, Prince Philip was assigned to work with WATU
Now there's a challenge for the museum and Drachinifel
I wrote to the palace last year in an endeavour to engage Prince Phillip's interest in maybe helping Lindybiege in the same regard, and received a nice reply from his private secratary indicating that Prince Phillip had read my letter and was pleased at the interest but that sadly after this long stretch of time he no longer recalled much of his involvement now. Not surprising really considering there has been no small amount going on in his life in the - what - nearly 80 years between!
I’ve just read the book “Max Horton and the Western Approaches”, amazing book and your superb film brings it alive. VERY well done! I shall visit the bunker ASAP. Why has nobody heard of Max Horton, even though he was given a state funeral. We owe him a lot.
First Comment, Keep up the stupendous work, Drachinifel!
No there is another
Thanks, what went on inside that building was truly interesting.
That was fascinating!
Very neat 'behind the scenes' plus the history.
Fantastic video, thank you very much for making it.
Drac this is really impressive, I love seeing your channel evolve. Keep it up and stay creative! Love your content
Great tour and insight into the command and control of Western Approaches. Nice change from the typical topics.
Absolutely riveting. I read "The Cruel Sea" when I was a teen in about 1965, and have been interested in Battle of the Atlantic history ever since. I'm now living in Germany and have begun pseudo-regular rips to the UK. Now I have another reason to divert on my drive from the ferry landing at Liverpool to the Borders to visit Liverpool.
Thanks for the trip through time! It seems the WRENs made the biggest contribution the the war than anybody else.
the 8 dislikes are the uboats skippers who called haxs awaandnt rematch
Thanks Drach, really needed my rum ration today.
Thanks. Amazing place and history. When working, I visited Derby House and never knew. Nice to see you, to see you...
Brilliant video, I visited the museum in 2011 when it was obviously under previous management. I look forward to returning again some time.
I liked this video before I even watched any of it, because I already know it will be great.
Thank you as always.
o7
EXCELLENT !! Well done Drac.
Dean Thank you for a behind the Walls look at the Museum . Yes that original Paint in the Decoding room is exciting . Drach this Video is Riveting . I did enjoy the Wind thank you for leaving some in .
That was amazing Drach, thanks very much 😊
Wow! Great video drach! Also nice job on the graphics on the bottom of the screen. Good stuff sir!
For those interested, there's an announcement in Wargaming's Game Center app stating that they're going to be hosting a live event starring Drachinifel, The Mighty Jingles, and Tuccy two days from now -- I guess on both the Twitch and YT platforms. Feel free to go to GC for more details and also to submit questions there that you'd like answered during the event.
I love how drach has the stereotypically English walking stick, Excellent videos always keep up the good work compliments from the spot of land across the pond
So many years after reading "The Cruel Sea" 10 times cover-to-cover in my teens back then in communist Poland now I can see for real the contributing elements. So the "HMS Compass Rose" was directed from this location. Thank you for the video a lot! More of the same please.
There is a really good early 50s black and white movie of The Cruel Sea. It’s really good. I’m sure you could buy it in the internet. I own a copy and watch it about once a year.
Thanks Drachinifel, that was thoroughly interesting and informative. And the sound difficulties were surmounted well enough. Nice to see so much of you in person, and guess what - you're much better looking than Mark Felton!