Inside a 400 kV high voltage module ( epoxy removal, testing , circuit diagram, simulation )
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ย. 2021
- It has been a while that I wanted to remove epoxy from one of these HV module which are sold as 400 kV devices. Even though I knew the internal circuitry to some extent, but i wanted to know it exactly and also I wanted to know clearly how to remove epoxy from a potted electronic circuit.
This video took a large amount of effort, and I have learned quite a few new things. hope you enjoy.
A functioning and clear procedure of epoxy removal using Acetone is presented. the schematics of this 400 kV module is shown. To my surprise the device after being removed from the epoxy was still functioning and so I could get the input waveform and measure the frequency of the oscillation. At the end I created a Matlab Simulink model for this device, and different possible failure modes of the device is discussed.
The last few weeks very super busy, working in the lab with Philip, reading many master theses and participating in the MSc defenses forced me out of TH-cam for a few weeks. But here I am back.
Deeksha and Philip defended their thesis last week, so congratulations to both of you. Deeksha thesis has open a new line of research about transformer magnetic modeling. I am curious to expand my knowledge on the topic. Philip did an excellent job and demonstrated a hardworking and skilled student. Many days we had to work till late night to get the data and design a functioning pulse transformer. Thanks Philip and Deeksha for delivering a good work and for being ta motivation for me to learn new things.
Even after not producing videos for nearly a month still i am ahead than what i promised to myself.
Finance: N=26,
subs=578
Available budget (N):
578-100-26*(26+1)=-224
Storage limit:
2^ln(578)=82.11 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![จังหวะนี้ - เม้ก อภิสิทธิ์ [ Official MV ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4gQRZCkRyiU/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the most comprehensive break down and explanation of one of these units that I have ever seen. A brilliant bit of work, thank you very much.
Best high voltag👍🙏👍
Unbelievable brilliant review 👍
Great analysis. One important detail: the output transformer has 6 windings in series. It is critical in this type of high voltage range. If there was only one winding with 6 time more turns, assuredly, the transformer would internally produce arcing and would burn very quickly. Hence, the importance of using 6 isolated windings in series, as is the case here. Great video, thanks, I wanted to open one of those for a long time. 🎉
A great video: You don´t simply explain everything, you also lay out the whole methodology for researching a circuit, and even that is a win, for anyone with zero interest in this concrete circuit... But would you please upload also in 480p in the future, cause I´ve noticed that with time, less people do that, (usually just 360p and 720p), but I find the 480p still to be the most practical !!! I use a microcomputer (like a growng amount of people also do), and for my relatively huge 80cm-screen, 480p still has the best looks, while not going hard on the PC (480p isn´t high enough for football, but people using microcomputers, will watch much more videos like yours, than watch football anyway)...
Awsome. For years I was wondering what was inside one of these. 👍
Great video! i learned quite a bit. id love to see more videos from you!
I really like this channel, it fits to my needs and interests. I'm new tocelectronic and need explanations as well as instructions and this Guy does it well.
Than you
You were actually counting fast. 😂
This was awesome. The info here was top notch 👍🇮🇪🙏
Very good explanation and the way of breaking down was also good, with some precautions, you could have gotten a perfect internal circuit. But it was very amazing, I liked to learn many things about that generator.
This is really very very well done video. Excellent. I will follow you from now on
Amazing super detailed breakdown , thanks so much for sharing your knowledge , I would like to see you build a well build version of this circuit using a flyback core , good capacitors and maybe a zvs driver at the step up
Well it's what I am looking for.
Thanks bro, this video is really helpful for me.
That's not a "voltage tripler" circuit at the end of the circuit. It's a voltage doubler, with a half wave rectifier diode, and the large capacitors, to change the output from A.C. to D.C.
Briliant work. Thanks for sharing this knowledge
Very nice in-depth analysis. Not everybody has that level of understanding. The channel deserves more subscribers.
Muy bueno el analisis de estos artefactos....al detalle..saludos..
Thank you for this valuable video.
Very good analysis. Please give details of transformer winding too.
Thank you for the video ! One question: What happens when the output of the high voltage generator is not connected to a sparkplug and the wite are two far distant? I’m asking because i see a very strange EMI phenomenon where a nearby screen reboots. Is it because the energy has no where to go (and spark) so it comes back to the primary ? Thank you for your answer
Thanks I always wondered what was in there but knew it wasn't a good idea.
Thanks you so much i really need It for my class
Excelent video! thankyou so much!!
How are you measuring the high value resistances?
Can you boost the power of that arc generator? Like from 30kv turned it into an actual 400kv
Thanks . What this transistor?
Wow I love your videos..
Is there a way to determine which one of the output wires of a module is positive and which one is negative? I mean: without disassembling it.
Thank you for sharing.
I have bought many of these (and fried many of these) I’ve always wanted to learn what’s inside them
Hello, absolutely this generator does not generate 400 kV, no way.
it is more like 10-20kv
They are call like that because of the Seller/retailer retatards Marketing district decided that they sell more when they pull high number ratings out of their bum 😂. I blame those greedy pidgin brain Marketing Subhumans that try to sell them with every scumbag move possible. 🤷♂️
Wow extremely good explanation but i have only 1 question what's the name of the oscillator/inverter/DC to AC inverter !! ???!? Which makes DC to AC current
How much current are drawn during arching of this HV module?
Could you build 4000k or even higher voltage generators?
Parabéns amigo ganhou um escrito super dicas sensacional Muito obrigado por fazer o vídeo 👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍🙏🙏🙏🙏
My question is iam using zvs circuit with flyback transformer for getting high voltage but in short circuit condition it drops current to minimum I need a such 12v to 50kv circuit in which current goes to maximum in short circuit condition and we have short circuit protection
Can i boost the output with Cockroft-Walton circuit ?
Very great video, I got one myself thanks to your review of it. However the one I got worked in the begining, but when I soldered it, it stopped working. Now it only buzzes. Do you think I could have damaged it with the heat of soldering iron, that got moved by the wire?
Thanks, soldering most likely does nothing to it, the wires are long and high amount of heat can not propagate through the wires that long to damage the device. most likely you either burned it because you run it continuously over long time (10s of seconds) or you made the output terminals too far and hence burned one of the capacitors inside the module (same as my case in this video). Alternatively, maybe your battery runs out of power and can not deliver high current to the device and that is why it does not produce larger discharges.
Are there capacitors that are better suited to the intended use? I.e. output caps that can handle larger voltage and tripler caps that can handle the ripple? Great video, thanks for the effort.
use the plastic film caps. he explained caps wrong in series... if you have 3 caps in series that are 2000v rated then you have a 6000v cap.
عالی بود بقرانن
It is a very gooooooooodddd
Nice job, we need to tear all down to parts in order to learn
Where is this piece located?
Hi, great video and analysis ! I really needed it! I'm now wondering if the output's waveform is the same of a Marx generator ??
No, Marx generator usually produce double exponential waveform, due to charge and discharge of capacitors in different resistors. This waveform although is similar to double exponential, but is different.
@@HVE oh.. I've never thought about it... thank you for clearing it out. What do you think then would generate a similar output of a capacitor discharged through a spark gap?? For an experiment I need to magnify a voltage of a low-voltage DC input to produce a pure DC spark gap.
24:00 why does the capacitance increase with usage?
So it outputs DC at a constant voltage when connected to a load ? would it shock you if it was connected to your body already and then switched on, or can it only shock when allowed to charge up or arc ? what current can it output and would the current vary depending on the resistance of the persons skin ? also are there different versions of this device on the market with different output waveform ?
Yes it output DC, but depending on the load the output voltage obviously varies (it does not have a close loop control). Yes it shocks you if you hold you hands on its output terminals and then turn it on. Regarding the output current i have not measured it, but assuming 3 volt input and 2 amps of current it uses 6 W, with efficiency of say 50% (i don't know the efficiency of this oscillator) we have 3 W output. Assuming a hand touch of 100 kOhm resistance (again this can vary a lot depending if your hand is wet or dry), it gives us a current estimation of 30 Micro amp. Most of them are similar, but some of them use different transformer, and some only have the AC part, so you get AC output.
AC output: www.ebay.com/itm/382131734381?hash=item58f8d3876d:g:aAsAAOSw-89ZRPh7
With different transformer: www.ebay.com/itm/265611444986?hash=item3dd7ad02fa:g:RlkAAOSwBAhiinjO
lower output voltage in the range of 2000 V: www.ebay.com/itm/174755607496?hash=item28b03ef3c8:g:aEsAAOSwhDBZ-dcS
is it possible to obtain the simulink model
I've seen a few technical reviews for this identical HV module, but none of them attempted depotting it to see exactly what was inside, which left them speculating about the circuit details. Great video, impressive disassembly and reverse engineering! I have one critique though, your RC time constant numbers were correct but you count your seconds way too fast. ;-)
Thanks, yes i counted way too fast and I felt it the hard way 😂
@@HVE One *Missippi*, two *Missippi*, three *Missippi*... and so it goes. 😉
@@joaoluizteixeira2244that's what I was saying out loud when he was counting 😂😂
Damn, I was looking forward at using this for our project, but I need it to last long term. Are there any alternative to look for or what modification to the design should be considered?
i'd recommend using beefier transistors, this one looks very small, also get higher voltage rating capacitors and diodes, since it wont be potted there is no reason to make it small, use big components to make it more reliable
How can I adjust its output voltage?
The output high voltage is ac or dc?
How to make to make this chinnise module last as long as possible because I'm planning to use as a teser?
Keep the distance between the output wires less than 1 cm and do not keep it on for more than a few seconds ever time you turn it on. if you wait let say 10 seconds between each trigger, it should be okay. These numbers are just what I estimate and i think they are reasonable, i have not done long term tests with them.
Can you post the simulation file?
I cant see it ok 😢
Hi, your program is beautiful. Listen, I buy a lot of those 400kv modules, but they all burn, can you send me the schematic so I don't burn them anymore. Regards
Etwas länger Geduld haben und warten, bis das Azeton seine Wirkung getan hat. Die gezeigte Zerlegung hätte auch mit einem Hammer funktioniert. Nitroverdünnung ist auch ein gutes Lösungmittel, besonders um geklebte Ferritkerne zu lockern.
Can someone please explain to me how this transformer is working with dc current? Does it have something in the circuit that helps it?
It is the transistor which acts as an oscillating switch converts the DC to pulses of currents which mimic AC, and transformer action begins.
Is it possible to get the part numbers of the diodes?
I could not see any numbers on the diodes, I assume they are normal rectifier diodes.
13:00 You were measuring the capacitances while the capacitors were still part of the circuit; that generally produces incorrect results, yeah? Since the other parts of the circuit may e.g. have a capacitance of their own. Edit: ah, you do mention this later.
Awesom
Epoxy
cool which would work for a Jacobs latter?
Nope. I tried this and the ~2.3nf capacitor (3x6.8nf series capacitor trio) across the output smooths out the ripple too much on the HV DC output. Smooth HV DV is great for creating big, loud, scary Taser/Stun-Gun arcs snapping across an open air spark gap, but terrible for making a countinuous high frequency plasma arc across a jacobs ladder which is necessary to make and sustain the rising arcs. Without that large output capacitance to store enough joules of energy, the module might not have sufficient current and voltage to make a very impressive jacobs ladder, as evidenced by the wimpy little arcs these units make after the output capacitor(s) get burned out.
try using some MEK (methylethlyketone) to disolve that in it's a step up from acetone, i think the they are both simular in properties, i have disoved plexi glass with both of them and the MEK disovled it faster and easyer.also folks you probably guessed it i am not a very good speller or typer lol.
Parabéns 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
So ITS not400k volt? Just around 20k-50k volt?
I'm not an EE or anything but shouldn't you have added the capacitance of those three ~7.5nF capacitors in series? Is that why you then got shocked?
For capacitors when they are in series we have: 1/Ctot=1/C1+1/C2+... and when they are in parallel we have: Ctot=C1+C2+... I got shock probably because i counted it faster, I think it took only 4.5 second when i touched the terminals and that was not enough for the voltage to decay enough.
What is amperage??
What is the recommended distance to save this part and not burning the capacitor?
Keep the distance between the output wires less than 1 cm, and do not keep it on for more than a few seconds.
@@HVE thanks for the respond and doses it hurts if you hit someone with it I'm thinking to make a teaser with it for protection
@@tchaklit9413 It gives a shock and it is painful, however, making a teaser with it you must be careful that it does not shock yourself while it is in your pocket. While having a teaser in your pocket might give you some self confidence, generally speaking i do not recommend that you make one and carry around. It is not that powerful to knock people down, it has the risk of self socking (if you make it not properly) and some people might have weak body/heart which if you hit them with it they can get serious hurt.
why name is transistor?
Is there an open version of Simulink? I think it is too expensive. If I used it, there is no way to share. If I could not pay the subscription, I could not even access my own models.
I use KiCAD to design circuits, and it includes some variant of SPICE to do simulations
Why them use epoxy?
what transistor?????????
Can anyone name the ingredients in the video above? You know I'm still a beginner, the code name of the material. I need it
if the cap ar gone , saw of the end and make a new volt dobler or use as hige hz generator ...
Subbed! 😁
Transistor name code or value??????
Hello Sir How Are You Sir can You Make Same Circuit in reality please sir 🙏 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Great idea #amyi
the driver looks like it survived a war
These modules are sold on eBay among others as "high voltage modules". But in fact it's the business part of stun-guns.
The 500meg resistor is a bleeder.
Is this high voltage module dangeours? It is 400 KV, so I assume you will get a shock, but if the input is 5A at 6V, the output current should be something like 0.3 uA.
Yes it is dangerous, it’s only about 40kv tho, can kill you if the electricity passes through your heart, most small battery not 5A so it should be fine.
Agha damet garm.aly bood
Start counting from ZERO - not one :)
They used to sell them as 40kV, but Chinese sellers always over exaggerate their specs.
whats the level of the out put current?
I have not measured it yet, but i can give you an estimation. It used several volts 3-6 V and draws several amps (2-3 A) so we have an input power of say 10 W, let say the efficiency is 80% we get 8 W output and if the output voltage is 16 kV for example that means 0.5 mA.
isn't it 400V?! I think you made a typo. it cannot be 400 kv
😎 They sell it as a 400 kV units, In reality it is in the range of 10-20 kV
I try to do this th-cam.com/video/WT1JFhxutqg/w-d-xo.html, but it restarts randomly. I connected a 2.2nF 2500V capacitor and an 8.2M resistor in parallel between the high voltage wires and it works. After a few tests I noticed that if a spark of less than 3mm is formed, the device restarts. How do I stop the formation of these sparks? When the spark is between 3mm - 6mm long, the device works most of the time.
400KVs?
Lying is such an underrated sin.
1000kv
uaaauuu
capacitors in series does not add the values... only the voltage... if you had 3x 4.7nF 2kV in series then you have a 4.7nF 6kV capacitor. if they were in paralell then you would add the value and voltage stays the same. 3x 4.7nF 2kV in paralell = 14.1nF 2kV capacitor.
This device is nowhere near 400 kV! Probably more like 40 kV.
Indeed, in the video I have explained it. People usually know it as a 400 kV module, because on Ebay sellers used to name it a 400 kV HV module.
Hindi me explain karte to samajh aata
400 Thousand Volts.😂😂😂😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂
@electroboom
nice.ILikeTheFeelOfIonicWindOnMyHand.OnPlusSideItsMoreIntenseThanNegativeSide.SomeUsedItToLiftIonocraft.IWonderWhatPowerDoWeNeedToLiftASpaceShip🙆♀️🙆♀️
butIWouldHavePreferedToBeAcAtTheOutputToSeeIfItHasIonicCapabilities.