Friend; "You have two options. Join the Stormcloaks or the Imperials." Me; "I declare war on the Thalmor!!!" Friend; "So, you pick Stormcloaks than." Me; "Did I say I am gonna join the Stormcloaks?" Friend; "No, but you..." Me; "Listen. I don't care for the empire nor would I support the Stormcloaks. Instead, I am gonna kill every Thalmor in Skyrim." Friend; "Are you mad?!" Me; "No. I would end the Thalmor rule before it began." Edited: Spelling error and better lines.
How they are very secondary in the story of Skyrim, there really isn't much story to get out of them and taking into account that Bethesda sacrificed much more relevant story options it is not such a big surprise
It is so utterly baffling how bad the Blades are written. They’re supposed to be serving specifically the Dragonborn (you), but Delphine literally says “You’re either with us, or against us.” Her saying that should be her signing her own death warrant with the Dragonborn
Someone should've made a mod that makes Delphine and Esbern killable. Edit: *Only* them, specifically. And I don't mean any cheat mod, as the ones I've seen are just to make everyone killable, which would eventually lead to some player making mistakes by a single attack in the unfortunate direction.
you literally have to open either config.esm or in game console and type in "set essential" on the clicked avatars. They can barely handle Bandit Wizards even on very easy mode!!!
I can never be relied on to be impartial Nine times out of ten you will probably see me siding with the Stormcloaks. The other 1 out of 10 I am neutral.
Always hated betraying Balfruuf but always preferred the Stormcloaks to the Empire. Which is why the PC version of Skyrim is better. If you have the Special Edition, I suggest downloading a mod from Nexus called "Balgruuf Dilemma" which works the same way as "The Paarthurnax Dilemma" When you deliver Ulfric's axe to Balgruuf, wait until he asks Proventus "What do you make of this". As soon as he is finished, interact with him, and try to convince him to accept Ulfric's terms. If successful, Balgruuf will accept his offer and not be forced into exile. His guards will all be replaced with Stormcloaks. The reason I enjoy this mod is because I like the Stormcloaks, but always felt bad that Jarl Balgruuf, a father of two, was forced into exile. He seems like such a nice guy, even though his stance on the war makes him seem indecisive.
He wasn't indecisive, he *decided* to stay out of the war that's ripping Skyrim apart even though it made him a target. And in the end, when he was forced to commit, he stuck to his principles. That mod is what makes him indecisive. Because he makes a choice that forces you to make a harder one, so you make him unsure just to avoid feeling like a bad guy. What's next, an imperial mod that executes Maven Black-briar for corruption & puts Mjoll on the throne? Because god forbid the choices we make in a civil war has long-lasting consequences for the province.
@@kingcamelot1395 beyond the scope of the game. If you could fix the Thalmor threat in skyrim, then they wouldn't be much of a threat, would they? Just another video game antagonist that doesn't live up to the fluff.
Looking from the lore and the game, Tulius knows that thalmor will try to declare war on the empire, and even maybe Skyrim itself after the war in Skyrim Has ended.
this is argument why i always choose Stormcloaks instead of Imperials - empire try to kill you at start , is like story from the prison - if one inmate that is from other gang try to ,,remove you" then you don't beg to them for joining them , but instead go to their enemy to join then ,,rise up" at the ladder of the gang to finally meet with your almost killer and make on him your revenge. , only thing that i don't like in skyrim was Thalmor part and no posibility to remove them forever , and that leftovers after civil war (essential Commanders that always stay as last person at camp. , another was no one recongnize Emperor robes from darkbrotherhood quest , even as some lines from Guards of Solitude , but words of aproval from Ulfric , and sad and scared voice from Tulius and Elisif would be better and nicer.
It’s simple really when you get a bit more into the lore, read in game books or do an imperial play through. Once you defeat Ulfric either directly after or back in Solitude Tulius implies there will be a second war with the Thalmor. Which is why he’s irritated by Ulfric, because the Thalmor barely defeated the empire. I mean barely in fact, either in game books or a character directly says the emperor was a coward because all they had to do was regroup and rally to push back the Thalmor in Cyrodil. Hence why the man doesn’t try to fight back when you come for him in the DarkBrotherhood Questline. To further my point when you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy read the book on Ulfric, he’s either a Thalmor plant or the consider him a dumbass. My personal opinion tho? By definition lore wise the Dragon Born has more right than anyone to claim both High King, and Emperor.
When I started playing Skyrim, I’m pretty sure me and literally everyone wanted to join the Stormcloaks for that very reason. After playing more and more I started becoming pro empire for the reason that Skyrim will get solo’d by the Thalmor if it weren’t for the Empire keeping them out. While I hate the Thalmor, I got to be realistic in saying that the Stormcloaks are simply outnumbered by them.
I think that the Imperials and the Stormcloaks are idiots. They ignore the fact that the Thalmor literally say they want to kill all humans. Plus all of Skyrim, Imperials and Stormcloaks have love for skyrim, and the freedom of man. I think that a perfect terms would be for the Stormcloaks to sue for peace, but only if Talos worship would be legalized, and that both sides would unite and fight the Aldermi Dominion. This goes for the real world to, nations fight in conflicts that only bring mass death and destruction, all for a few small changes.
That's literally what the empire is trying to do they signed a peace treaty to stall the thalmor so they could build there numbers back up. You can see this is true because if you pick the stormcloaks just before you kill tullies he tells ulfric that he's doing exactly what the thalmor want which is getting ride of the empire in skyrim which weakens skyrim
Markarth is personal for Ulfric, the hold itself is useless as fuck. You have the forsworn everywhere making trade lines just impossible. Riften in trade for Markarth is just such an easy trade for the Empire
Nou matter if you try to be neutral in the negotiations, you always get accused of taking sides whether you want to or not. My argonian would have blown the thalmor rep off the hiest point of Throat of The World.
In this playthrough, the Dragonborn joined the stormcloaks and overtook Whiterun. Biggest giveaway is Vignar Gray-Mane mentioning that Riften can be held against whatever the Empire can throw at it. Only in a stormcloak aligned playthrough will Tulius make the opening demand.
Is this really the best ending for the negotiation, for no reason at all this part of the quest line is so stressful because I don’t understand it And if there’s consequences and such
The truce is really only temporary so that they can focus on the dragons, when you do the civil war the treaty is basically over and the terms are revoked
I have always liked the imperials but I hate the thalmor. We have to realize the empire is trying to rebuild themselves in order to destroy the Thalmor.
main quest idiots: we can't help you with ETERNAL DRAGONS because empire sold out skyrim and acts like it has any say in what nords should do now dragonborn: ok hive me a moment because quests have literally no time limit *wins the war for rightful skyrim owners dragonborn: so can we NOW stop the dragons? ulfric stormcloak: yes we need to stop the dragons, THERE IS NO TIME TO WASTE
I feel like any person that chooses the stormcloaks because they like them or agree with their ideology is stupid. Ulfric stomecloak is literally considered a passive asset by the thalmor because he is actively weakening the empire and skyrim through the civil war. Tulius literally says so on his deathbed, even Laila and other npcs believe Ulfric is blinded by pursuit for power
And their active asset actively complying with the Thalmor? The dossier says either side winning is bad, both sides choose to fight, but Imperials forget that. The Empire could give Skyrim her independence and play a complete 360 on what the Thalmor want but they don't, they don't want to lose more power after losing Hammerfell You're forgetting that this is TES. Gods and the afterlife exist. If Úlfric and other Stormcloaks die they go to Sovngarde, if they win Skyrim is free. Giving in isn't honourable, and honour affects your soul. Even Imperials will admit that they take no pride in what they're doing while Stormcloaks fight for their own honour and freedom Nords including Úlfric fought for The Empire before and after his capture in the Great-War, at the Red-Ring, and then at Markarth, and they betrayed him, Skyrim, and Hammerfell for their own gain, he knows how much giving in to them is worth. The Empire would toss Skyrim aside for it's own sake just like they did with him, just like they are doing, again and again, that's why Úlfric called for independence at the last moot, challenged Torygg, fights and is willing to die for it
The empire's already weak. I don't think it could properly prepare for another war with the Aldmeri Dominion even if it had Skyrim's full support. It's a failing entity, and has been for some time. It can't hold itself together, its leadership is in crisis (nobles are hiring the Dark Brotherhood to assassinate the emperor), and it's an unreliable overseer to its provinces -- selling out Hammerfell during the last war was an acceptable term for the empire, which would hardly instill confidence in Skyrim heading into the next war. Ullfric's a piece of garbage, but the man doesn't matter; it's more about Skyrim catching a branch before it's pulled down with the crumbling empire. The Thalmor dossier also doesn't matter; it's just the Thalmor making a best guess on how they might benefit the most. The real question is if you believe an empire that's been on a steady decline since the Oblivion crisis will defy all the odds and somehow turn itself around on a dime, or if it'll follow the more predictable path from decline to demise, and if Skyrim should stay on board for that.
Almost 40k😅 can’t believe it my next goal is 50k and still the 1000 subs not reached haha
Friend; "You have two options. Join the Stormcloaks or the Imperials."
Me; "I declare war on the Thalmor!!!"
Friend; "So, you pick Stormcloaks than."
Me; "Did I say I am gonna join the Stormcloaks?"
Friend; "No, but you..."
Me; "Listen. I don't care for the empire nor would I support the Stormcloaks. Instead, I am gonna kill every Thalmor in Skyrim."
Friend; "Are you mad?!"
Me; "No. I would end the Thalmor rule before it began."
Edited: Spelling error and better lines.
Yes pelinal would be pleased
wow a mad person, that's why you don't get to the cloud district
@@NazeemOfCloudDistrict Then I shall be burn in the fire district... But I will still be happy for getting rid of Thalmor.
@@NazeemOfCloudDistrict hey i just installed some mods to marry your wife
@@johnathanholmes1297 well, then i will marry serana.
Surprised joining the Thalmor was never an option in game, especially for the Elf Races.
Would be an interesting RP though the Thalmor are terrible
How they are very secondary in the story of Skyrim, there really isn't much story to get out of them and taking into account that Bethesda sacrificed much more relevant story options it is not such a big surprise
You really should only have the option as a high elf. All other elves are meant to be subservient to the Thalmor.
The Thalmor even hate high elves who aren't affiliated with them.
@@taleteller4266 so we can join every faction there is but not them? why?
It is so utterly baffling how bad the Blades are written. They’re supposed to be serving specifically the Dragonborn (you), but Delphine literally says “You’re either with us, or against us.”
Her saying that should be her signing her own death warrant with the Dragonborn
Someone should've made a mod that makes Delphine and Esbern killable.
Edit: *Only* them, specifically. And I don't mean any cheat mod, as the ones I've seen are just to make everyone killable, which would eventually lead to some player making mistakes by a single attack in the unfortunate direction.
😂😂 then I would already kill esbern 10 times
It’s called literally any cheat mod lol
YES. You side with the grey beards and kill the idiotic blades
you literally have to open either config.esm or in game console and type in "set essential" on the clicked avatars. They can barely handle Bandit Wizards even on very easy mode!!!
After the treaty they are not essential, just don’t agree or disagree with any dialogue about Paarthurnax, just exit dialogue.
2:25 😐…just had flashbacks to when Tullius first said that phrase… “Let’s get this over with”… *shudders*
I can never be relied on to be impartial
Nine times out of ten you will probably see me siding with the Stormcloaks.
The other 1 out of 10 I am neutral.
There really should’ve been an option to broker a peace treaty without having to use mods.
Always hated betraying Balfruuf but always preferred the Stormcloaks to the Empire.
Which is why the PC version of Skyrim is better. If you have the Special Edition, I suggest downloading a mod from Nexus called "Balgruuf Dilemma" which works the same way as "The Paarthurnax Dilemma"
When you deliver Ulfric's axe to Balgruuf, wait until he asks Proventus "What do you make of this". As soon as he is finished, interact with him, and try to convince him to accept Ulfric's terms. If successful, Balgruuf will accept his offer and not be forced into exile. His guards will all be replaced with Stormcloaks.
The reason I enjoy this mod is because I like the Stormcloaks, but always felt bad that Jarl Balgruuf, a father of two, was forced into exile. He seems like such a nice guy, even though his stance on the war makes him seem indecisive.
He wasn't indecisive, he *decided* to stay out of the war that's ripping Skyrim apart even though it made him a target. And in the end, when he was forced to commit, he stuck to his principles. That mod is what makes him indecisive. Because he makes a choice that forces you to make a harder one, so you make him unsure just to avoid feeling like a bad guy. What's next, an imperial mod that executes Maven Black-briar for corruption & puts Mjoll on the throne? Because god forbid the choices we make in a civil war has long-lasting consequences for the province.
Father of three.
@ianwest4037 And where is our choice to untie Skyrim and its people, both Stormcloak and Imperial, against the Thalmor?! The real enemy!
@@kingcamelot1395 beyond the scope of the game. If you could fix the Thalmor threat in skyrim, then they wouldn't be much of a threat, would they? Just another video game antagonist that doesn't live up to the fluff.
Looking from the lore and the game, Tulius knows that thalmor will try to declare war on the empire, and even maybe Skyrim itself after the war in Skyrim Has ended.
My issue with the whole game is you START by almost being executed by the empire. So why in the hell would I EVER side with them?
this is argument why i always choose Stormcloaks instead of Imperials - empire try to kill you at start , is like story from the prison - if one inmate that is from other gang try to ,,remove you" then you don't beg to them for joining them , but instead go to their enemy to join then ,,rise up" at the ladder of the gang to finally meet with your almost killer and make on him your revenge. , only thing that i don't like in skyrim was Thalmor part and no posibility to remove them forever , and that leftovers after civil war (essential Commanders that always stay as last person at camp. , another was no one recongnize Emperor robes from darkbrotherhood quest , even as some lines from Guards of Solitude , but words of aproval from Ulfric , and sad and scared voice from Tulius and Elisif would be better and nicer.
It’s simple really when you get a bit more into the lore, read in game books or do an imperial play through. Once you defeat Ulfric either directly after or back in Solitude Tulius implies there will be a second war with the Thalmor. Which is why he’s irritated by Ulfric, because the Thalmor barely defeated the empire. I mean barely in fact, either in game books or a character directly says the emperor was a coward because all they had to do was regroup and rally to push back the Thalmor in Cyrodil. Hence why the man doesn’t try to fight back when you come for him in the DarkBrotherhood Questline.
To further my point when you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy read the book on Ulfric, he’s either a Thalmor plant or the consider him a dumbass.
My personal opinion tho? By definition lore wise the Dragon Born has more right than anyone to claim both High King, and Emperor.
When I started playing Skyrim, I’m pretty sure me and literally everyone wanted to join the Stormcloaks for that very reason.
After playing more and more I started becoming pro empire for the reason that Skyrim will get solo’d by the Thalmor if it weren’t for the Empire keeping them out.
While I hate the Thalmor, I got to be realistic in saying that the Stormcloaks are simply outnumbered by them.
This guys camera work is great. Never moves to anyone talking lol.
😂
I never knew this was even possible
Nice. I usually do the imperial quest line before the main though so I only had this one time lol.
Haha exactly
Just did it for the first time I’ve always had the civil war quest line completed before this point never knew
doing side quest before the main one? that's why you don't get to the cloud district
@@NazeemOfCloudDistrict marry me
I think that the Imperials and the Stormcloaks are idiots. They ignore the fact that the Thalmor literally say they want to kill all humans. Plus all of Skyrim, Imperials and Stormcloaks have love for skyrim, and the freedom of man. I think that a perfect terms would be for the Stormcloaks to sue for peace, but only if Talos worship would be legalized, and that both sides would unite and fight the Aldermi Dominion. This goes for the real world to, nations fight in conflicts that only bring mass death and destruction, all for a few small changes.
That's literally what the empire is trying to do they signed a peace treaty to stall the thalmor so they could build there numbers back up. You can see this is true because if you pick the stormcloaks just before you kill tullies he tells ulfric that he's doing exactly what the thalmor want which is getting ride of the empire in skyrim which weakens skyrim
Indeed and its stupid that you cant wipe those Camps out always one remanins unkillable😂
Oh I never done this before
i just did put everything in favor of the stormcloaks, then i did joined the empire and obliterated them anyway
*equivalent exchange*
I never understood why one side always got upset about trading markarth for riften and vice versa the trade off seems pretty fair in my opinion
Markarth is personal for Ulfric, the hold itself is useless as fuck. You have the forsworn everywhere making trade lines just impossible.
Riften in trade for Markarth is just such an easy trade for the Empire
Nou matter if you try to be neutral in the negotiations, you always get accused of taking sides whether you want to or not. My argonian would have blown the thalmor rep off the hiest point of Throat of The World.
That’s so true so I choose imperial 😂more and bigger
True, i always just trade markarth for riften and tulius decides to be a bitch to me, demanding compensation and winterhold
Turns out you can kill the thalmor rep. Elenwen loses her essential flag when the quest is over.
It's to bad we could not make jarl of white run king or arm the guards.
The order dialogue seems different...? I thought it's Ulfric demand first?
In mine Ulfric spoke first but they wanted to trade different towns
I guess you were allied with the Empire then.
@@andrewhazlewood4569 No, I stayed neutral
In this playthrough, the Dragonborn joined the stormcloaks and overtook Whiterun. Biggest giveaway is Vignar Gray-Mane mentioning that Riften can be held against whatever the Empire can throw at it. Only in a stormcloak aligned playthrough will Tulius make the opening demand.
Tell themmthat the thalmor're the problem and we you should unite agaunst them.
Is this really the best ending for the negotiation, for no reason at all this part of the quest line is so stressful because I don’t understand it And if there’s consequences and such
I think not but this video is the best thing ever happened
The truce is really only temporary so that they can focus on the dragons, when you do the civil war the treaty is basically over and the terms are revoked
Stormcloak playthrough: I demand markarth
Imperial Playthrough: I demand Riften
Both playthroughs: I kick Elenwin out!!
I got a glitch of that storyline so I haven't played the game since
Oh no but the game makes 3 Quick saves
Almost 10k thanks everyone subscribe for more also the voices in this game are heard in #teenwolf
Np 🗿
Almost 20k dream come true thanks for viewing also almost 100 subs so please if you enjoyed subscribe
I joined the imperials, but I understand why Ulrich hates the thalmors. Screw them cause one disbelief and they'll try to hunt u down
That’s ‘negotiate’…you’re welcome.
So how do you get this mission started? I wanna try it
You gonna pursue the main quest line and during that time you can not choose a side in the civil war
@@Abdullahbinzahra124 ah cool cheers
I have always liked the imperials but I hate the thalmor. We have to realize the empire is trying to rebuild themselves in order to destroy the Thalmor.
main quest idiots: we can't help you with ETERNAL DRAGONS because empire sold out skyrim and acts like it has any say in what nords should do now
dragonborn: ok hive me a moment because quests have literally no time limit
*wins the war for rightful skyrim owners
dragonborn: so can we NOW stop the dragons?
ulfric stormcloak: yes we need to stop the dragons, THERE IS NO TIME TO WASTE
This is probably the worst quest in the main story
Its such a painful slog that literally accomplishes nothing
What if you give Falkreath instead?
Then you don’t have to get Falkreath if you side with the Stormcloaks. But I think you need to do a speech check to convince Ulfric
I feel like any person that chooses the stormcloaks because they like them or agree with their ideology is stupid. Ulfric stomecloak is literally considered a passive asset by the thalmor because he is actively weakening the empire and skyrim through the civil war. Tulius literally says so on his deathbed, even Laila and other npcs believe Ulfric is blinded by pursuit for power
And their active asset actively complying with the Thalmor? The dossier says either side winning is bad, both sides choose to fight, but Imperials forget that. The Empire could give Skyrim her independence and play a complete 360 on what the Thalmor want but they don't, they don't want to lose more power after losing Hammerfell
You're forgetting that this is TES. Gods and the afterlife exist. If Úlfric and other Stormcloaks die they go to Sovngarde, if they win Skyrim is free. Giving in isn't honourable, and honour affects your soul. Even Imperials will admit that they take no pride in what they're doing while Stormcloaks fight for their own honour and freedom
Nords including Úlfric fought for The Empire before and after his capture in the Great-War, at the Red-Ring, and then at Markarth, and they betrayed him, Skyrim, and Hammerfell for their own gain, he knows how much giving in to them is worth. The Empire would toss Skyrim aside for it's own sake just like they did with him, just like they are doing, again and again, that's why Úlfric called for independence at the last moot, challenged Torygg, fights and is willing to die for it
The empire's already weak. I don't think it could properly prepare for another war with the Aldmeri Dominion even if it had Skyrim's full support. It's a failing entity, and has been for some time. It can't hold itself together, its leadership is in crisis (nobles are hiring the Dark Brotherhood to assassinate the emperor), and it's an unreliable overseer to its provinces -- selling out Hammerfell during the last war was an acceptable term for the empire, which would hardly instill confidence in Skyrim heading into the next war.
Ullfric's a piece of garbage, but the man doesn't matter; it's more about Skyrim catching a branch before it's pulled down with the crumbling empire. The Thalmor dossier also doesn't matter; it's just the Thalmor making a best guess on how they might benefit the most. The real question is if you believe an empire that's been on a steady decline since the Oblivion crisis will defy all the odds and somehow turn itself around on a dime, or if it'll follow the more predictable path from decline to demise, and if Skyrim should stay on board for that.
Is this a mod ?
No