Yeesh, I misspoke when I first rattled off the kingdoms mentioned by Daniel. The list should have started with Babylon. Don't have a clue why "Rome" came out of my mouth.
@@Bluebagginsit does specify specifically that the head is Nebuchadnezzar. The conclusion of what the rest is meant to be is drawn from the rest of daniel where all the 4 kingdoms are named
Dan, you say that the Jews didn't overthrow Antiochus IV Epiphanes, but wasn't it the Macabees rebellion against his Seleucid empire that brought about a time of independence after the Macabees entered Jerusalem in triumph after the battle of Ben Zur in 164 BCE .. or is this just revisionist history from the book of Macabees (perhaps)?
@@Thoughtful_Theologian Shit, not even empires. Two entire religions centered around the existence and actions of men who would not be born for hundreds of years after the composition of the source text. Utter nonsense.
“I don’t know if I’m going crazy . . . “ He’s probably not literally mentally ill. If he was, he wouldn’t suggest that his idea was crazy. Instead, I think he’s just really dumb and lacking in discernment.
As a former evangelical, that's pretty much how (evangelical) "revelation" works tho. They just let their imagination go wild and call it revelation as long as it's based somewhat in what they've read in the bible. Then they feel special (and/or humbled) about it
I LOVE it when people believe THEY’VE been given the Secret Decoder Ring and that THEY have the Secret Memo for understanding all prophecy. Sure makes them really special, doesn’t it?
I call it the Jimmy Olsen syndrome. If you can't be the Big Guy, having him on speed dial is the next best thing. It applies perfectly to religious apologists, especially fundamentalists. It's much easier to just have faith and believe, than it is to learn and know.
As a Muslim, I'm looking forward with a sense of excitement to our uniting with the Catholic Church. I wonder who is going to win the gold argument; the Muslims with men don't wear gold or the Catholics with their Pope and entourage dressed head to toe in gold.
I have always been puzzled by it when people use the strength of their conviction as an argument for the truth of something. Like, you telling me, that you really, really believe it adds nothing in way of make a convincing case for the matter.
I have a system for recognizing the Anti-Christ: I take a simplified version of how I understand Christ acted, serving the poor, embracing traditional enemies and shunning violence, then look for someone who enbodies the exact opposite. There's no shortage of candidates I'm sorry to say.
Well, the problem is that we have different Christ's. The Christ of the book of Revelation even commands r...ape and Jesus in the gospels says he did not come to be bring peace. The anti Christ in Pauls letters will claim to be God himself. Jews and Muslims don't believe the Messiah to be God.
I feel like Daniel has been the "choose your own adventure" of prophecy, where people just slot in whatever culture or kingdom they want to try to make it work.
Ironic use of his choice of imagery for his "theory". Thank you, Dan and family, for all you do. Lots of love from a Roman Catholic since birth. Happy Latter Day Saints.
I grew up in a religious community where somebody was always preaching about wild beast using quasi religious diction that sounded ridiculous. If you waited long enough, these people ended up in the back of a squad car. It's the speech and the hair styles that signals, one day, they are going to fight these beast after a cocktail or two.
If someone ever starts a sentence with "This probably sounds crazy" best to stop and think about the next thing they're going to say before continuing. Because it probably does.
people who says porks are unlawful yet simultaneously indulge in fornication? that's not necessarily _Chrislam._ cherrypicking scripture behavior found in both groups. Christianity and Islam.
@@_S0me__0neVery much like Sikhism, as far as I understand it; Chrislam originates in an African country that is split with great tensions along Christian and Muslim lines, and the founder claims to have had a spiritual experience where God told them that neither religion was solely True, but that both needed to be combined for true peace. It's still pretty young as religions go, but it's spread to some places in America, and who knows? This could well be the shape of the religious future...
The Mormon church used to teach that the Catholic Church was a “great and abominable church”, or a “satanic organization”. These things DO get thrown around sometimes.
@nightman1125 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, to give it its proper name, has never taught that. It's true that some members have believed it, but church leaders have discouraged it. If you're thinking of "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce R McConkie, that is not an official publication and was actually disapproved by the church.
Is the Mormon church setup like a gov so that there are many different parts to escape-goat or throw under the bus when something comes out they aren’t okay with or creates bad publicity?
@@tezzerii You know what? You're right - I misspoke. This idea didn't originate with McConkie - it originated with Jospeh Smith in the Book of Mormon. And it wasn't limited to the Catholic church! It says that all churches that are not Joseph's church are founded by Satan (aka the great and abominable church): 1 Nephi 14: 9-10 "9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil. 10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." But we've since negotiated with this text, and whitewashed what was likely the face-value intended meaning of these verses. Let's keep going - Jospeh Smith's first vision? "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" Then we have "Jesus the Chirst" by James E. Talmage, published in 1915: "Whatever vestiges of genuine Christianity may have possibly survived in the church before, were buried beyond the sight of man by the abuses that followed the elevation of the churchly organization to secular favor through the decree of Constantine. The emperor, even though unbaptized, made himself the head of the church, and priestly office was more sought after than military rank or state preferment. The spirit of apostasy, by which the church had become permeated before Constantine threw about it the mantle of imperial protection and emblazoned it with the insignia of state, now was roused to increased activity as the leaven of Satan’s own culture flourished under the conditions most favorable for such fungoid growth." McConkie just sort of evangelized the idea more than others had, at least during the latter half of the 20th century. But the teachings regarding the Catholic church (and others) had always been there. There's even more on the matter from Brigham Young and John Taylor. It's not a hill that you need to die on - we can recognize that the Mormon church has historically demonized other churches, especially the Catholic church..
@@nightman1125 Well, ok then - We can also recognise that most other churches have demonised the mormon church, and not just the mormons, but just about every other church. And they've all had a go at the catholics. They all took things said in the bible which seemed to point to the catholic church. Long history of that, and still going strong in Joseph Smith's time. -And since Joseph Smith was himself demonised for claiming to have had a vision, by these other christians, it's not surprising that he might have felt a bit annoyed. Something you never hear about tho, is how the mormon church (which btw is a nickname and not its proper name) has worked in partnership with the catholic church, islamic relief, and others in humanitarian aid. Never gets mentioned. Not exactly deadly enemies, are they ? So I'm just saying singling out the lds church for something that was pretty general among all the churches is a bit unfair, don't you think ?
Islam believes in the Christ, so it can't be anti-christ. As for the Catholic church, if it is the anti-christ, then you are as well (protestant) since they gave you the basis of your faith.
Does Islam believes Jesus was the Christ? They claim Jesus was a prophet, but I don’t recall they claimed he was the Jewish or God’s Messiah/Anointed one.
@@Thoughtful_Theologian Yes, he is Al-Massih son of Mary, just a prophet as described in the NT. There are of-course differences like the atonement and the deity of Jesus.
@@Thoughtful_TheologianYeah he's the Messiah and the last Prophet sent to the Jews according to the Quran. We also believe in his second coming, minus his divinity and the atoning sacrifice on the cross.
These fundamentalists never seem to realize that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity (represented here by the Roman Catholic Church and themselves by Protestantism) worship the exact same deity.
Dan thank you so much for these intelligent and well ppresented rebuttals. Having suffered greatly at the hands and mouths of fundamentalist, ideologues of evangelical/charismatic Christianity your words are brilliant!
Hi Dan loving your videos. Long ago I saw a show that talked about the number of the beast and that it was a direct reference to Nero, if I remember correctly. I would love to see some real historical references of what revelations referred to, if anything.
The Old Greek of Daniel identifies Rome as the ships of Kittim at Daniel 11:30 so there is an early tradition of reading Rome into the text. Also, when, by whom (what group?) and in what language was Daniel originally written? If it was circa 160 BCE and first in Hebrew and Aramaic how did it get accepted so quickly so that it was translated into Greek? The infighting for control over the temple was fierce and Daniel is promoting a messianic figure that would threaten the Sadducces with a potential Judahite messiah. This would make it very difficult for such a new writing to be so universally accepted at that late date.
I'm entirely content that the Anti-Christ of Revelation was "Kaiser Neron" (i.e. the Emperor Nero). Some mss. give the number as 616, others as 666. Nero gives us 616, Neron gives us 666. There are numerous reputable articles online, not to mention 'proper scholarly books' explaining the view.
One of the problems with this: the number of the Beast, identifies the (first) Beast and not the false prophet - or 'antichrist' (the second beast). The (first) Beast shares the name of a man - here, 'beast' stands in for political entity (a state). We need a 'beast' that had existed, but no longer exists (at the time of John), but could be seen as coming again (due to prophet expectation), and that shares a name with a man. Well, Jacob is a man that shares a name with such a 'beast' (though we need to look to his other name). Curiously, that beast has returned.
@@Noneya5555 A brief condensed history: Protestant scholars wanted Catholic Rome to be the Beast System (for obvious reasons, perhaps). Jesuit scholars responded with, Rome yes, but Ancient Rome, not Catholic Rome (for obvious reasons. perhaps). Sitting upon the Beast is the Wicked City. There are only two contenders for this city. Rome and Jerusalem - NT Wright (last time I looked) sees Jerusalem as the better fit. Jerusalem is the better fit for the Whore City - it makes people uncomfortable, but it is the better fit. Jerusalem does not sit upon Italy - though it does, by tradition, also sit upon seven mountains (which is a better translation than 'hills)'. So, no, I'm not saying all biblical scholars are wrong. I'm just siding with those scholars that see too much of a problem with making the Beast System Rome.
Can you make a video very briefly outlining the rigorous academics of the process by which you correct these tenuous theories and wishful thinking? You do a great job clarifying the difference between choosing to accept something on faith vs trying to prove something; and how trying to prove something we’ve already invested our faith in, gets really muddy, really fast. Can you give us a place to start if we hear something that sounds schmegegy, and we want to dig for facts, please? How can I explain that widely accepted, peer-reviewed, scholarly resources are more than just a “difference of opinion” with another Bob Jones graduate? Thank you for your time!
Creator like that guy get people kxlled with their bigotry, then use the Bible to justify their hatred. It's all so tiring. It amazes me how many people don't consider Catholicism part of Christianity when for a good portion of history to two were synonymous.
The problem Protestants have with Catholocism is something I find fascinating. The fact that the texts that they are so reliant on were preserved by the Catholic Church is something they seem to forget.
Here's a suggestion: do a video on this idea of manifest destiny, i.e., all kinds of religious people going out and telling everyone everywhere to join them and become christians, whatever that means. DOES THE BIBLE SUPPORT THIS IDEA? Or not.
It never ceased to amaze me that people will give outsized credence to their own, admittedly baseless, beliefs. The OP even says, 'I don't know... but I honestly believe it's true.' He doesn't understand why he believes it, but he's going head-first into that empty swimming pool anyway...
If the 3rd beast (Leopard) is Persia and not Greece, why does it have 4 heads? Daniel 8 describes Greece as a goat with a horn borken in 4 pieces symbolizing Ptolemy, Seluceus, Cassander and Antigonus. Wouldnt the 4 heads of the leopard mean the same thing?
A question for the USians, I often hear US "Christians" asking if people are Christian or Catholic. But my understanding is Catholics *are* Christians. Can anyone explain it please?
3:24 Not to mention Islam was still many hundreds of years away from being founded and they couldn't have known about it... 5:23 Just to be clear: It's not _true,_ or it's not absolutely nuts?
Hey Mr Antichrist, how come your not mentioned one time in Revelation or Daniel? And the one time you are, off the top of my head, 3 rd John, doesn't make you sound like all the propaganda? We know ya ain't the beast, that the political system Sometimes I wonder if they didn't just make you up.🤐
Cyrus the Great was a descendant of both the Persian King and the princess of the Medes, Mandane. He literally became king of the Medes and Persians after his conquest of Media, to which he had some legal right as a descendant of Median royalty. The dismissiveness towards the Median royalty in Dan's work is puzzling, and I can only guess he's overplaying his hand to object to an ahistorical reading of Daniel. All that being said, while the author(s) of Daniel definitely had an objective in composing the tale, there is a deeper psychological context in which Daniel is best situated as apochalyptic literature that allows the text to speak to all generations, in all the various contexts we find ourselves in. Even Jesus applies Daniel's prophecy of the disgusting thing in a holy place to his day, and the gospel writers connected it to the destruction of the 2nd temple, 200 years after Daniel's final form was settled.
no, no, he was onto something. as someone who grew up catholic i can confirm that we are practicing the dragon ball fusion dance with muslim kids from a very young age and once we all succeed we will summon the devil in the form of majin boo and.. iunno, capsules or summin, i didn't really dig dragon ball that much.
Dan, in this clip you seem to be saying that the Jews did not overthrow Antiochus IV Epiphanes; however, I looked around the internet and found that: the Maccabees' rebellion against his Seleucid empire led to a period of independence when the Maccabees triumphantly entered Jerusalem following the battle of Beth Zur in 164 BCE. Is this an accurate historical account, or could it be considered revisionist history from the Book of Maccabees?
It’s fun and easy to make stuff up. It’s childish. Pretending it is true is delusion. And the work of discovering what is true and real is in the hands of scholars and researchers.
It's especially hilarious since there are multiple nations /empiresvastly greater than all of those kingdoms since then. Like, the Roman Empire is tiny compared to the British Empire at its peak.
I'm not sure if it's good or bad that these apologists are having to resort to wilder and less coherent stories these days. On one hand, maybe it's a sign that they're being corrected on the older apologetic stuff, but on the other, maybe them becoming completely detached from scriptural tradition with their pure and utter nonsense is a bad thing.
Yes, it sounds nuts. You have the right to believe it if it warms your toes at night but no amount of belief ever made anything true. And inventing garbage to fuel and justify your irrational hatred is just pathetic. Thanks Dan, keep on doing what you do.
That's how the Israelites/Jews read the Hebrew Bible. Adonai translates as Lord. In order to not vocalise the sacred name (YHWH) they would say Adonai. In translations of the Old Testament it is common for YHWH to be translated as LORD ("ORD" in a slightly smaller font than the "L"). If the translation is "Lord" then it's likely the Hebrew word is Adonai. Hope you & Dan don't mind me adding my thoughts on this one.
I know it sounds glib, but what more can you say? Most of the truth claims that these creators make are ludicrous and there is no further need to elaborate how.
Anti-Christ? No such animal imho. That would require an equivalency to the messiah that is just not possible. These things have already come to pass; that is the origin of the Oracles. Its a repetitious cycle of fulfillment on grand and miniscule proportions. The standards report the signs. Were looking for a marriage if I'm not mistaken....
Further more it's about wasting time, wasting everything really. Until time has reached its fullness and its time to intervene. Waiting for the cycle to be almost finished, to begin kicking down sandcastles (till there is only one left, so easy a cave man can do it). interrupting the process and begin again in chaos. Now who has goals and the hubris to carry out an endeavor as such? I would have to say Korea. Possessed on world domination.
0:14-0:17 Ugh. It’s a bit ridiculous how so much attention gets put on “Daniel” (Captain Wisdom…Man) when you have an almost exact replica in 1 “Enoch” 83-90. “Daniel”: I know who the 21st century antichrist is! 1 “Enoch”: Yeah that’s not relevant. [Burp]. [Fart]. P.S.: Jesus ascended the corporeal realm (edit: i don’t know what words mean), but not Romulus. Definitely not Romulus.
It would be nice if you were honest and told us what you actually believed rather than that you are just a scholar of the Bible. Im LDS and we do regard Daniel as scripture in our church. Are you an atheist who happens to have joined the lds church or something? What do these other scholars actually believe?
His purpose on social media is to explain the scholastic consensus, or his own conclusions based on academic research. Beyond stating he is a believer, he doesn't seem to like straying into his personal spiritual perspectives.
It is not that difficult. The Antichrist is the Beast/ Red Dragon and the Lawess One. It is Christ treading the winepress of wrath, the wrath of the sacrificial Lamb. It is antithetical to Christ to wage war and crush heads the world over even if it is in judgment and justice on the day of vengeance. As the Lawless One, with all the power, signs, and wonders at the disposal of falsehood, and seeming to be a part of the workings of Satan, 2Thess 2:9-11, he leads them astray, as if with a bridle in the jaw of the people, on the day of the great slaughter, Is 30:25-28, having been given the power and rule, along with great authority of The Dragon as the First Beast/ Red Dragon, Rv 13:2, with seven heads and ten horns, Rv 12:3. Just as it is appointed that human beings die - be judged - appear a second time, (so also Christ) …will return Heb 9:27-28 …as the (Red) Dragon (Demon Sin) stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. (Rev 12:4 NABO) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord (Jesus) will (Transfigure) with the spirit of the sword of his mouth and render speechless by his glorious radiance (2Th 2:8). When he rises against the prince of princes, he shall be broken without a hand being raised. (Dan 8:25 NABO) whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2Th 2:8 KJV) his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. (Mat 17:2 ASV) If you do well, you can hold up your head; but if not, sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master (Gen 4:7 NABO) Who, robed in splendor, judges nations, crushes heads across the wide earth, Who drinks from the brook by the wayside and thus holds high the head. (Psa 110:6-7 NABO)
Yeesh, I misspoke when I first rattled off the kingdoms mentioned by Daniel. The list should have started with Babylon. Don't have a clue why "Rome" came out of my mouth.
I'm glad you caught that, Dan. I thought I was losing my mind for a sec. Another great vid! Thanks for all you do!
@@Bluebagginsit does specify specifically that the head is Nebuchadnezzar. The conclusion of what the rest is meant to be is drawn from the rest of daniel where all the 4 kingdoms are named
Perhaps it was - Satan...? (old SNL Dana Carvey/Church Lady tag) 🤣
Dan, you say that the Jews didn't overthrow Antiochus IV Epiphanes, but wasn't it the Macabees rebellion against his Seleucid empire that brought about a time of independence after the Macabees entered Jerusalem in triumph after the battle of Ben Zur in 164 BCE .. or is this just revisionist history from the book of Macabees (perhaps)?
Oh !
Thanks for clarifying !
Love how these folks with no training think they have discovered something that has eluded scholars for centuries.
Thats what God told Daniel would happen, so there's that.
@@glenwillson5073that two empires that did not yet exist would merge to become THE Anti-Christ?
@@Thoughtful_Theologian Shit, not even empires. Two entire religions centered around the existence and actions of men who would not be born for hundreds of years after the composition of the source text. Utter nonsense.
It's the Dunning-Kruger effect at work.
@@glenwillson5073No, that's what someone wrote that God told Daniel. But thanks for playing.
Johnny, tell them what they've won... 🤣
This Creator is 100% correct. It does sound absolutely nuts.
... because it is.
“I don’t know if I’m going crazy . . . “ He’s probably not literally mentally ill. If he was, he wouldn’t suggest that his idea was crazy. Instead, I think he’s just really dumb and lacking in discernment.
As a former evangelical, that's pretty much how (evangelical) "revelation" works tho. They just let their imagination go wild and call it revelation as long as it's based somewhat in what they've read in the bible. Then they feel special (and/or humbled) about it
Don't forget that they have always prayed about it and are lead by the holy spirit. Before making their ridiculous claims.
Yep I 100% agree. It feels amazing.
Pick and choose scriptures to say whatever you want it to say. It's how they "taught" it in Bible college
Dude out there taking "Trust me, bro" to the next level.
The almost unbearable tiredness in Dan's voice when he says "...all right, let's see it..." Its hilarious 😅
I LOVE it when people believe THEY’VE been given the Secret Decoder Ring and that THEY have the Secret Memo for understanding all prophecy. Sure makes them really special, doesn’t it?
I call it the Jimmy Olsen syndrome. If you can't be the Big Guy, having him on speed dial is the next best thing.
It applies perfectly to religious apologists, especially fundamentalists. It's much easier to just have faith and believe, than it is to learn and know.
@@Noneya5555 woosh
@@weaintdointhis???
As a Muslim, I'm looking forward with a sense of excitement to our uniting with the Catholic Church.
I wonder who is going to win the gold argument; the Muslims with men don't wear gold or the Catholics with their Pope and entourage dressed head to toe in gold.
How about alcohol?
Muslims don't drink alcohol and Catholics drink alcohol as one of their sacraments.
Will you compromise and wear iron pyrite?
@@themightycaolf6549 You gotta lotta brass to ask that.
Either way, the food at that meeting is going to be amazing. Let's make sure we don't hold it during Lent or Ramadan though.
Pretty sure Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islam merge in the future, and then those adherents move to a different planet.
I think you flubbed and said Rome is in the text at 1:02. I think you meant to say Babylon as the first kingdom.
“I know this sounds absolutely nuts!” “Yes, now internalize that insight and realize it is the only truth you uttered in the entire video…”
I have always been puzzled by it when people use the strength of their conviction as an argument for the truth of something. Like, you telling me, that you really, really believe it adds nothing in way of make a convincing case for the matter.
Way back then I was taught the meaning of the expression, "phlegmatic calm". Dan personifies it so well.
0:08 To be fair he did warn us. That idea is either crazy, dumb or malicious.
I have a system for recognizing the Anti-Christ: I take a simplified version of how I understand Christ acted, serving the poor, embracing traditional enemies and shunning violence, then look for someone who enbodies the exact opposite.
There's no shortage of candidates I'm sorry to say.
Well, the problem is that we have different Christ's. The Christ of the book of Revelation even commands r...ape and Jesus in the gospels says he did not come to be bring peace. The anti Christ in Pauls letters will claim to be God himself. Jews and Muslims don't believe the Messiah to be God.
Anti means instead of.
@JopJio The Book of Revelation does not mention, let alone command, r...ape.
@JopJio The Book of Revelation no where mentions, let alone commands or states God will commit, SA.
I think...I believe...that this is true! Very scientific and erudite.
I feel like Daniel has been the "choose your own adventure" of prophecy, where people just slot in whatever culture or kingdom they want to try to make it work.
Your videos are amazing, each one teaches something new. Congrats on your success!
Ironic use of his choice of imagery for his "theory". Thank you, Dan and family, for all you do. Lots of love from a Roman Catholic since birth. Happy Latter Day Saints.
I don’t think think you can be born Catholic, pretty sure there’s usually a baptism
I grew up in a religious community where somebody was always preaching about wild beast using quasi religious diction that sounded ridiculous. If you waited long enough, these people ended up in the back of a squad car. It's the speech and the hair styles that signals, one day, they are going to fight these beast after a cocktail or two.
“I know it sounds absolutely nuts”… Yeah, it is!
If someone ever starts a sentence with "This probably sounds crazy" best to stop and think about the next thing they're going to say before continuing. Because it probably does.
Thanks for the sanity.
Speaking of Christianity and Islam, anyone else ever heard of Chrislam? It's like the love child of both religions after a drunken weekend!😵💫
people who says porks are unlawful yet simultaneously indulge in fornication? that's not necessarily _Chrislam._
cherrypicking scripture behavior found in both groups. Christianity and Islam.
Gollah and Jehammed
So, a derivation like Bahai, Sufism, or Sikhism?
No sense
@@_S0me__0neVery much like Sikhism, as far as I understand it; Chrislam originates in an African country that is split with great tensions along Christian and Muslim lines, and the founder claims to have had a spiritual experience where God told them that neither religion was solely True, but that both needed to be combined for true peace. It's still pretty young as religions go, but it's spread to some places in America, and who knows? This could well be the shape of the religious future...
The Mormon church used to teach that the Catholic Church was a “great and abominable church”, or a “satanic organization”. These things DO get thrown around sometimes.
@nightman1125 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, to give it its proper name, has never taught that. It's true that some members have believed it, but church leaders have discouraged it. If you're thinking of "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce R McConkie, that is not an official publication and was actually disapproved by the church.
Is the Mormon church setup like a gov so that there are many different parts to escape-goat or throw under the bus when something comes out they aren’t okay with or creates bad publicity?
@@tezzerii You know what? You're right - I misspoke. This idea didn't originate with McConkie - it originated with Jospeh Smith in the Book of Mormon. And it wasn't limited to the Catholic church! It says that all churches that are not Joseph's church are founded by Satan (aka the great and abominable church):
1 Nephi 14: 9-10
"9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."
But we've since negotiated with this text, and whitewashed what was likely the face-value intended meaning of these verses.
Let's keep going - Jospeh Smith's first vision?
"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt"
Then we have "Jesus the Chirst" by James E. Talmage, published in 1915:
"Whatever vestiges of genuine Christianity may have possibly survived in the church before, were buried beyond the sight of man by the abuses that followed the elevation of the churchly organization to secular favor through the decree of Constantine. The emperor, even though unbaptized, made himself the head of the church, and priestly office was more sought after than military rank or state preferment. The spirit of apostasy, by which the church had become permeated before Constantine threw about it the mantle of imperial protection and emblazoned it with the insignia of state, now was roused to increased activity as the leaven of Satan’s own culture flourished under the conditions most favorable for such fungoid growth."
McConkie just sort of evangelized the idea more than others had, at least during the latter half of the 20th century. But the teachings regarding the Catholic church (and others) had always been there.
There's even more on the matter from Brigham Young and John Taylor.
It's not a hill that you need to die on - we can recognize that the Mormon church has historically demonized other churches, especially the Catholic church..
@@tharveytucker1 yes
@@nightman1125 Well, ok then - We can also recognise that most other churches have demonised the mormon church, and not just the mormons, but just about every other church. And they've all had a go at the catholics. They all took things said in the bible which seemed to point to the catholic church. Long history of that, and still going strong in Joseph Smith's time. -And since Joseph Smith was himself demonised for claiming to have had a vision, by these other christians, it's not surprising that he might have felt a bit annoyed. Something you never hear about tho, is how the mormon church (which btw is a nickname and not its proper name) has worked in partnership with the catholic church, islamic relief, and others in humanitarian aid. Never gets mentioned. Not exactly deadly enemies, are they ? So I'm just saying singling out the lds church for something that was pretty general among all the churches is a bit unfair, don't you think ?
Yeah, when he opened with, “You guys might think I’m crazy,” or something like that, I immediately thought, “Yep, you’re bonkers, man.”
Thanks for the great information Dan.
Islam believes in the Christ, so it can't be anti-christ. As for the Catholic church, if it is the anti-christ, then you are as well (protestant) since they gave you the basis of your faith.
Does Islam believes Jesus was the Christ? They claim Jesus was a prophet, but I don’t recall they claimed he was the Jewish or God’s Messiah/Anointed one.
@@Thoughtful_Theologian Yes, he is Al-Massih son of Mary, just a prophet as described in the NT. There are of-course differences like the atonement and the deity of Jesus.
@@Thoughtful_TheologianYeah he's the Messiah and the last Prophet sent to the Jews according to the Quran. We also believe in his second coming, minus his divinity and the atoning sacrifice on the cross.
Thanks yall! I was unaware of that particular detail of Jesus’s place within Islam.
@@Thoughtful_Theologianhe is the messiah lol
"I don't know if I'm going crazy..." Well, I'm pretty sure you are..or already have gone crazy 😂
"I don't know if I'm going crazy..."
No, you've already arrived there.
Trusting that your delusional conclusions are from god puts you on the path. When the first time feels so good you go looking for more.
These fundamentalists never seem to realize that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity (represented here by the Roman Catholic Church and themselves by Protestantism) worship the exact same deity.
It depends. Jews and Muslims dont worship the Messiah or the holy ghost
There are no good sentences that start with “I don’t know if I’m going crazy…”
What’s really goofy is that the guy with the Secret Decoder Ring shows a cartoon of Pope Benedict, not Pope Francis.
Dan thank you so much for these intelligent and well ppresented rebuttals.
Having suffered greatly at the hands and mouths of fundamentalist, ideologues of evangelical/charismatic Christianity your words are brilliant!
Hi Dan loving your videos. Long ago I saw a show that talked about the number of the beast and that it was a direct reference to Nero, if I remember correctly. I would love to see some real historical references of what revelations referred to, if anything.
Ah, this old saw.
Thanks for addressing it.
One of my favorite videos that you’ve done, my brother!
Another informative and entertaining vid, thanks Dan.
The Old Greek of Daniel identifies Rome as the ships of Kittim at Daniel 11:30 so there is an early tradition of reading Rome into the text.
Also, when, by whom (what group?) and in what language was Daniel originally written? If it was circa 160 BCE and first in Hebrew and Aramaic how did it get accepted so quickly so that it was translated into Greek?
The infighting for control over the temple was fierce and Daniel is promoting a messianic figure that would threaten the Sadducces with a potential Judahite messiah. This would make it very difficult for such a new writing to be so universally accepted at that late date.
I'm entirely content that the Anti-Christ of Revelation was "Kaiser Neron" (i.e. the Emperor Nero). Some mss. give the number as 616, others as 666. Nero gives us 616, Neron gives us 666. There are numerous reputable articles online, not to mention 'proper scholarly books' explaining the view.
Same here. Nero was the AntiChrist.
Yes, Dan and other actual biblical scholars have confirmed this in their writings, podcasts and videos.
One of the problems with this: the number of the Beast, identifies the (first) Beast and not the false prophet - or 'antichrist' (the second beast).
The (first) Beast shares the name of a man - here, 'beast' stands in for political entity (a state).
We need a 'beast' that had existed, but no longer exists (at the time of John), but could be seen as coming again (due to prophet expectation), and that shares a name with a man.
Well, Jacob is a man that shares a name with such a 'beast' (though we need to look to his other name).
Curiously, that beast has returned.
@@siduffy1881 So you're saying the objective biblical scholars, and the scholarly consensus, are all wrong about this?
@@Noneya5555 A brief condensed history: Protestant scholars wanted Catholic Rome to be the Beast System (for obvious reasons, perhaps). Jesuit scholars responded with, Rome yes, but Ancient Rome, not Catholic Rome (for obvious reasons. perhaps). Sitting upon the Beast is the Wicked City. There are only two contenders for this city. Rome and Jerusalem - NT Wright (last time I looked) sees Jerusalem as the better fit. Jerusalem is the better fit for the Whore City - it makes people uncomfortable, but it is the better fit. Jerusalem does not sit upon Italy - though it does, by tradition, also sit upon seven mountains (which is a better translation than 'hills)'. So, no, I'm not saying all biblical scholars are wrong. I'm just siding with those scholars that see too much of a problem with making the Beast System Rome.
Can you make a video very briefly outlining the rigorous academics of the process by which you correct these tenuous theories and wishful thinking? You do a great job clarifying the difference between choosing to accept something on faith vs trying to prove something; and how trying to prove something we’ve already invested our faith in, gets really muddy, really fast. Can you give us a place to start if we hear something that sounds schmegegy, and we want to dig for facts, please? How can I explain that widely accepted, peer-reviewed, scholarly resources are more than just a “difference of opinion” with another Bob Jones graduate? Thank you for your time!
Whew! Thanks for attempting to simplify it for me, guy
Creator like that guy get people kxlled with their bigotry, then use the Bible to justify their hatred. It's all so tiring. It amazes me how many people don't consider Catholicism part of Christianity when for a good portion of history to two were synonymous.
I think the subtitles at 1:02 are mistaken. I think you meant Babylon/ Nebuchadnezzar, not Rome.
Life. There’s a lot of focus on how it will end and not nearly enough on living it well. Seems like a waste of time on Earth.
As Umberto Eco said "The great Secret is that there's no great secret".... And yes the guy is nut...
Huh? There are five sections of the statue: the head, the chest,the middle, the legs, and the feet.
Is there a more detailed treatment of the particulars of retro modification of Daniel to cast it as prophetic? I’d like to map the mods out clearly.
The Anti-Christ will likely be from North Jersey.
The problem Protestants have with Catholocism is something I find fascinating. The fact that the texts that they are so reliant on were preserved by the Catholic Church is something they seem to forget.
It's so funny how he keeps saying "I think" without actually giving any evidence for why it might be the way he says
Here's a suggestion: do a video on this idea of manifest destiny, i.e., all kinds of religious people going out and telling everyone everywhere to join them and become christians, whatever that means. DOES THE BIBLE SUPPORT THIS IDEA? Or not.
It never ceased to amaze me that people will give outsized credence to their own, admittedly baseless, beliefs. The OP even says, 'I don't know... but I honestly believe it's true.' He doesn't understand why he believes it, but he's going head-first into that empty swimming pool anyway...
If the 3rd beast (Leopard) is Persia and not Greece, why does it have 4 heads?
Daniel 8 describes Greece as a goat with a horn borken in 4 pieces symbolizing Ptolemy, Seluceus, Cassander and Antigonus.
Wouldnt the 4 heads of the leopard mean the same thing?
It's true that it's nuts.
Lost a chance to end by saying "It's nuts"
A question for the USians, I often hear US "Christians" asking if people are Christian or Catholic. But my understanding is Catholics *are* Christians.
Can anyone explain it please?
3:24 Not to mention Islam was still many hundreds of years away from being founded and they couldn't have known about it...
5:23 Just to be clear: It's not _true,_ or it's not absolutely nuts?
Prophecy works best when written after the fact.
I was always a bit confused by who exactly "the medes" are meant to be...
"It's not..'
I don't see Rome or Medes or Persians mentioned anywhere in the Book of Daniel.
Persians are explicitly mentioned as are the Greeks.
Hey Dan can you do a video explaining the ending of Matthew?
There isn't ONE "antichrist". At any given time there's literally BILLIONS of people who fit the scriptural definition.
I am the One and only Anti-Christ
Hey Mr Antichrist, how come your not mentioned one time in Revelation or Daniel? And the one time you are, off the top of my head, 3 rd John, doesn't make you sound like all the propaganda? We know ya ain't the beast, that the political system
Sometimes I wonder if they didn't just make you up.🤐
@@anti-christ.666 Hey Nero reincarnated!
But that doesn’t sell books and movies 🤪
Basically *all* of Christianity is the antichrist now. Antichrist is the spirit of division and Christendom is divided against itself.
Cyrus the Great was a descendant of both the Persian King and the princess of the Medes, Mandane. He literally became king of the Medes and Persians after his conquest of Media, to which he had some legal right as a descendant of Median royalty. The dismissiveness towards the Median royalty in Dan's work is puzzling, and I can only guess he's overplaying his hand to object to an ahistorical reading of Daniel. All that being said, while the author(s) of Daniel definitely had an objective in composing the tale, there is a deeper psychological context in which Daniel is best situated as apochalyptic literature that allows the text to speak to all generations, in all the various contexts we find ourselves in. Even Jesus applies Daniel's prophecy of the disgusting thing in a holy place to his day, and the gospel writers connected it to the destruction of the 2nd temple, 200 years after Daniel's final form was settled.
no, no, he was onto something. as someone who grew up catholic i can confirm that we are practicing the dragon ball fusion dance with muslim kids from a very young age and once we all succeed we will summon the devil in the form of majin boo and.. iunno, capsules or summin, i didn't really dig dragon ball that much.
"I dont know if I am going crazy..."
Therapist: "Here we go." 🙄 *Grabs pen and a paper*
Dan, in this clip you seem to be saying that the Jews did not overthrow Antiochus IV Epiphanes; however, I looked around the internet and found that: the Maccabees' rebellion against his Seleucid empire led to a period of independence when the Maccabees triumphantly entered Jerusalem following the battle of Beth Zur in 164 BCE. Is this an accurate historical account, or could it be considered revisionist history from the Book of Maccabees?
That guy would love Dune
Islam AND Zen Buddhism! 🤯
Rome is both explicitly mentioned and not in view in any way shape or form? Did you mean Babylon as the one that is explicitly mentioned?
I think that he did indeed make an oopsie
It’s fun and easy to make stuff up. It’s childish. Pretending it is true is delusion. And the work of discovering what is true and real is in the hands of scholars and researchers.
Jesus mentioned Daniel prophecy in Matt 24 , I dont think the book is written in 160bc
Did he misspeak or something. Right at 1::20 he says Rome then says Rome is not mentioned in any way shape or form?.... Am I missing something?
I think he misspeaks Rome, when he means Babylon.
Yeah, I misspoke. I meant Babylon. Don't know why Rome came out of my mouth.
It's especially hilarious since there are multiple nations /empiresvastly greater than all of those kingdoms since then.
Like, the Roman Empire is tiny compared to the British Empire at its peak.
So why is Daniel dated to 160BC?..
I'm not sure if it's good or bad that these apologists are having to resort to wilder and less coherent stories these days. On one hand, maybe it's a sign that they're being corrected on the older apologetic stuff, but on the other, maybe them becoming completely detached from scriptural tradition with their pure and utter nonsense is a bad thing.
Well, I guess in social media, you can say many ridiculous things and claim them "to be true".
Catholicism and Islam? Add in Buddhism and that's how we get the Fremen.
They’re actually the combination of Buddhism and Islam.
Descended from Zensunni pilgrims...
Shai hulud!
"It's not." 😂😂
Did this video's "alright, let's see it" sound a little weary? Maybe Dan needs to engage with some creators who are at least a little, well, creative?
Yes, it sounds nuts. You have the right to believe it if it warms your toes at night but no amount of belief ever made anything true. And inventing garbage to fuel and justify your irrational hatred is just pathetic.
Thanks Dan, keep on doing what you do.
Hey Dan, it’s off the subject of this video but I have a recurring question: why is it that when YHWH on the screen you always say Adonai? Thanks.
It's out of respect for those who do not pronounce the divine name.
That's how the Israelites/Jews read the Hebrew Bible. Adonai translates as Lord. In order to not vocalise the sacred name (YHWH) they would say Adonai. In translations of the Old Testament it is common for YHWH to be translated as LORD ("ORD" in a slightly smaller font than the "L"). If the translation is "Lord" then it's likely the Hebrew word is Adonai. Hope you & Dan don't mind me adding my thoughts on this one.
Thank you. I have been confused by this.
So, a few things here : Dan Mcclellan is my personal thirst trap. No mistranslation there.
He is quite handsome, isn't he?
" it's not " 🤣
I know it sounds glib, but what more can you say? Most of the truth claims that these creators make are ludicrous and there is no further need to elaborate how.
Couldn't do more than 30 seconds
I was the 666th like. It's a sign! This apologist must be right! It can't be a coincidence... /s 🤣
Yeah,Chrislam, the coming beast system after the rapture next Tuesday or whenever. I see this all over TH-cam...
I been believing….🥴
🤣 bravo
Sounds like the Reincarnation of Ian Paisley.
Oh, oh, I know. You're going crazy.
Anti-Christ? No such animal imho. That would require an equivalency to the messiah that is just not possible. These things have already come to pass; that is the origin of the Oracles. Its a repetitious cycle of fulfillment on grand and miniscule proportions. The standards report the signs. Were looking for a marriage if I'm not mistaken....
Further more it's about wasting time, wasting everything really. Until time has reached its fullness and its time to intervene. Waiting for the cycle to be almost finished, to begin kicking down sandcastles (till there is only one left, so easy a cave man can do it). interrupting the process and begin again in chaos. Now who has goals and the hubris to carry out an endeavor as such? I would have to say Korea. Possessed on world domination.
Jesus is a prophet in islam
0:14-0:17 Ugh. It’s a bit ridiculous how so much attention gets put on “Daniel” (Captain Wisdom…Man) when you have an almost exact replica in 1 “Enoch” 83-90. “Daniel”: I know who the 21st century antichrist is! 1 “Enoch”: Yeah that’s not relevant. [Burp]. [Fart].
P.S.: Jesus ascended the corporeal realm (edit: i don’t know what words mean), but not Romulus. Definitely not Romulus.
Religious hatred at its lowest
Chrislam ™
It's not and it is (nuts that is)
The fun of cargo cult theology is you don't have to listen to any experts. Just make up whatever you want and pretend the Bible agrees with you.
It's not!😂
Dan, your answer to the guy’s last statement with “It’s not.” Is ambiguous. Is it not nuts, or not true? Pronouns are treacherous!😉
It would be nice if you were honest and told us what you actually believed rather than that you are just a scholar of the Bible. Im LDS and we do regard Daniel as scripture in our church. Are you an atheist who happens to have joined the lds church or something? What do these other scholars actually believe?
His purpose on social media is to explain the scholastic consensus, or his own conclusions based on academic research. Beyond stating he is a believer, he doesn't seem to like straying into his personal spiritual perspectives.
@@TheFranchiseCAthat is correct, more than stating he's an active and practicing member of the LDS church
The lds are a good contender
Lol
It is not that difficult. The Antichrist is the Beast/ Red Dragon and the Lawess One. It is Christ treading the winepress of wrath, the wrath of the sacrificial Lamb. It is antithetical to Christ to wage war and crush heads the world over even if it is in judgment and justice on the day of vengeance.
As the Lawless One, with all the power, signs, and wonders at the disposal of falsehood, and seeming to be a part of the workings of Satan, 2Thess 2:9-11, he leads them astray, as if with a bridle in the jaw of the people, on the day of the great slaughter, Is 30:25-28, having been given the power and rule, along with great authority of The Dragon as the First Beast/ Red Dragon, Rv 13:2, with seven heads and ten horns, Rv 12:3.
Just as it is appointed that human beings die - be judged - appear a second time, (so also Christ) …will return Heb 9:27-28 …as the (Red) Dragon (Demon Sin) stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth. (Rev 12:4 NABO)
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord (Jesus) will (Transfigure) with the spirit of the sword of his mouth and render speechless by his glorious radiance (2Th 2:8). When he rises against the prince of princes, he shall be broken without a hand being raised. (Dan 8:25 NABO)
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2Th 2:8 KJV)
his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. (Mat 17:2 ASV)
If you do well, you can hold up your head; but if not, sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master (Gen 4:7 NABO)
Who, robed in splendor, judges nations, crushes heads across the wide earth, Who drinks from the brook by the wayside and thus holds high the head. (Psa 110:6-7 NABO)