It's like WG saw the Lesta signal rework and saw it as a challenge Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/
running that dev blog thru several AI detectors returns probability between 6-22% of being AI generated. I feel sorry for underpaid intern who was forced to write that, because the metric spreadshit white collar ordered it in such theme
I mean...sort of? The RAF did use those bouncing bombs against dams, so close enough? Granted, that was against a honking great wall rather than a ship, and there was no actual penetration, and... ...Yeah, never mind.
The idea of an AP bomb only works because of the velocity at the drop, which an "AP skip-bomb" would lose as soon as it hit the surface once. WW2 Germany experimented with diving air-dropped bombs, essentially an in-between of a torpedo and a dumb bomb. Clearly, it didn't work out as well as planned, but it would be interesting to see that over more skip bombers. Skip-bombing with normal bombs was a fairly universally used bombing technique. Usually used against merchant targets where little to no AA return fire would be expected, it would be more likely to result in a hit than dive bombing. It is obviously not as exaggerated in range or bouncing as Wargaming has implemented it. There is no way that these bombs would have the energy after bouncing to penetrate an armored belt.
@@nickdubil90 bro not as exagerrated?They r literally saying AP skip bombers the design does not even exist thats like shooting AP shells from the air and making them skip like pebbles dude
Destroyers were extinct due to many retard ships WG adding and now it's time for cruisers to gone as well ( I'm in Asia which at one point MM waiting queue was like 20 carriers 200 battleships and some one digit cruisers and destroyers and 20 submarines )
You also wouldn't attack a ship with skip bombs, where you have to fly low, slow and level and much easier to hit than in a dive. They needed a new gimmick, no reason to apply any kind of realism or logic.
They don't, the go for upper thin armored part that can be easily punched through. If you land them on the armor belt you failed to skip them properly.
"Just angle" against planes that can turn on a dime, go several times your speed, and get to ignore any and all terrain that you might be using for cover. Not to worry, I'm sure that super effective AA will keep them from just orbiting above you until they get the perfect angle (Or you're forced to give broadside to the enemy team, killing you that way).
@@aegis027 yeh but the speed these bombs would be coming at towards your ship would make it quite difficult to do so I know it's sarcasm but still ...yeh AP bombers were used in WW2 but they werent used for ships they were used against bunkers, fortifications etc meaning stationary targets wht WG is implementing is cold war to modern era crap
WG's been consistently nerfing cruisers by every change. We already see 6 BBs, 1 CV and 2 subs in an average game. I guess they need to fill up the remaining 3 slots
@@Chocolate_cooki3 - rather they nerf before release than wait till after the whales have spent big on the T10 early access then nerf after. There are ALWAYS howls when a ship is nerfed after release.
what i get from this whole dovbleg : either you will get dev strike by "AP Skip Bombs" or by Brick's Twelve-457mm guns! well, choose your fate fellas 🤣
Closest thing I can think of to AP skip bombs is those rockets that the Brits would use to hit ships under the armor belts. Uncle Tom and Red Angel rockets I think they were called
As far as i know skip bombing was only ever used for small ships (freighters, transports and DD) and not for well armored ships. I mean, even glide bombing would work better if you want a gimmick. (Not to be confused with modern glude bombs) Also, gravity was a huge part of AP bomb pen anyway.
Pretty cool that they added a camo for Zao so the new AP bombers have a highlighted target to hit. And a camo for Thunderer that also highlights the citadel area!
Amazing freeze frame after the fishes line, I can almost hear the canned laughter and the closing theme (I AM NOT CHAT GPT but that is an American sitcom joke :-P )
The switching of shells making you stealthier CAN make SOME sense, in the sense of detectability after shooting, but not base conceal. In WW2, the US was in the process of switching their powder charges from an older powder that gave the traditional huge fireball at the muzzle to a powder that produced almost no muzzle flash. In one Pacific night battle (blanking on which one) multiple US cruisers were carrying both. While shooting the flashless powder, they were nearly invisible in the darkness, but once they ran out and had to switch to the old powder the Japanese target finders quickly zeroed in on the flashes.
If the game goes on like this on the armaments on ships, soon we will have an ARP I-401 with the gravitational cannon that sinks everything from one side to the other of the map and just in case something survives it will have corrosive torpedoes that will one-shot everything except CVs and other submarines
Always given out great information man. Keep up the great work people would not stay informed as well without folks like you helping compare and explain all this type of info.
In the pacific, skip bombs were standard bombs that were dropped in a low level attack skipping the bombs into the side of mostly freighters and lightly armored ships (usually by B25s, A-20, A-26 twin engine bombers). The round bombs were bouncing bombs used in the European theater designed for use against the damns of the Ruhr Valley dropped by modified Lancaster 4 engine bombers. AP bombs are possible, but should have low penetration.
I guess Logic of WeeGee of understanding laws of physics also throw out of the window. Skip AP bombers will never going to work IRL. That’s why they never continue to develop it after WWII because it is impractical. HE only hurts light target and AP is not going to be effective, because skipping in the water will cause the warhead to face wrong direction and failed to pen. That’s why in WWII they prefered regular bombs to dive bombs. Because let gravity do the rest is more effective than, torpedo the bomb. But again, Laws of Physics alread thrown out of the window when WeeGee added Soviet BBs with 30s turret traverse.
Just for context. Skip bombing and skip bombs aren't the same thing. You can skip bomb with normal bombs you just have to be at the right altitude and speed but skip bombs allow you to use the skip bombing technique from much further away. Hence why with dam busters it gave the advantage of pulling up before going deep into the AAA defenses and causing the bomb to pull itself down to the base of the dam before detonation. The technique itself was for attacking unarmed merchant ships allowing aircrews to have a much higher chance of hitting the target prior to inventions like the Nordon Bombsight becoming widely issued. Now does that change the fact it's stupid to lob AP bombs at the thickest part of the A in order to P? Nope BUT the concept is possible while being pointless... unless you're a WG gameplay designer.
Small addition. The Norden bombsight had been created. Level bombing of small, unarmed ships is just supper unreliable. It also allowed planes that didn't have a bombsight to have better hit chances.
25:47 Ok regarding the skip bombers, I don't think any plane in game actually uses a bouncing bomb. I think the only time they were used was during the dam baster raids. What actually is happening in game is the planes do a skip bombing run: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing I am not going to comment on how realistic it is in game, or if it is even possible with ap bombs to penetrate anything like that. But I bet that is what WG is intending it to be.
Ah yes, the famous french dd's not like Italy had total control of the meditaranean sea and was the 3rd best naval power just after the Us and england, maybe on par with Japan, what can I expect from a company that made a russian line soo big and powerful it actually seems that they had a real navy at some point😂😂😂
At this point, just give the Tier 12 CVs a way to have B-24 Liberators and freakin Lancasters, give them dam buster bombs and lets watch the world burn.
Agreed with Brick leg mod to be useless. I played it in brawls 5vs5 I guess, I didn't miss faster reload. But I was grateful for nice concealment and also that 5th module incoming shells increased spread. Also the module half useless in no CV no sub games. Finally some subs can spot you at their torpedo max range(U2501) and kite free away as your ASW is 12km max?
If you play carrier you would realize that people would rather angle against your carrier and give broadside to the rest of your team, rather than eating 10k dmg from a carrier salvo and not dev struck by a vermont instead.
Perfect pairing, imagine #justdodge the AP skip bombs by angling only to turn into a ship like oh, say Victoria, Bungo, slava etc which are designed to punish broadsides........
HE skip bombers were a thing, just spinning explosive barrels but AP? it would require both mass and velocity, and a fast spinning ball of iron would just sink instead of skipping... cruiser players will love getting hit by 10-20k unrepairable cit damage because they have to decide between angling to a Vermont or 200kts AP planes coming from the side
B25 in Asia used to skip bombs into ships no AP AFAIK. The reason being that the b25 where mire accurate at low level. Dropping boms from up high was terrible inaccurate. Low level b25 with 10 12.7 machine guns where used to strafe and bomb ships. For this game its crap
Technically Tachibana has better pen angles (check starts at 91 degrees meaning no ricochets ever) but that doesn't help much lel Edit: Can't wait for those British ap rockets that are meant to cause flooding to be added into testing at some point in the future. Will be very funny.
The continuous aa damage is a very poor choice for a unique upgrade buff given Vermont has American AA and def AA. if the secondary battery reloads faster or has decreased maximum dispersion would be a preferable buff.
I don't think wg gets the point on the legendary modules, they are all either a downgrade or a straight upgrade. Feels like it's just lazyness instead of testing something actually interesting they just slap whatever they think is gonna work on the ship and call it for the day.
have you seen new BP? 0 economic rewards omg, 1 port slot... as a new player I suffered when they had 4 slots per BP, that was not enough, imagine being a new player, just 1 port slot for the version.... literally 0... not even a gray ones.... not a single economic container
Skip bombing uses regular bombs most of the time so you can use AP bombs you can also use it against land targets such as train tunnels bouncing the bomb off the tracks into the tunnel. The UK did have highball as a special anti ship weapon honesty surprised it's not in game yet
i don't know how you do math over there but in the US. .07 is 7%, [Given, the number is 0.07 We have to find the percentage equivalent of the given number. To convert a number into percentage, it is multiplied by 100. Converting 0.07 into percentage, 0.07 × 100 = 7% Therefore, 0.07 is equivalent to 7%.]
It's like WG saw the Lesta signal rework and saw it as a challenge
Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz
Discord: discord.gg/Flamu
Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu
Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/
running that dev blog thru several AI detectors returns probability between 6-22% of being AI generated. I feel sorry for underpaid intern who was forced to write that, because the metric spreadshit white collar ordered it in such theme
Ah yes, ap skip bombs, totally a thing that was built
I mean...sort of? The RAF did use those bouncing bombs against dams, so close enough? Granted, that was against a honking great wall rather than a ship, and there was no actual penetration, and...
...Yeah, never mind.
Just like fighter squadrons were ordered to only launch rockets at ships, and never fighting enemy planes ever :D
Bro those weren't AO ..AP means armour piercing..these were high explosive bouncing bombs man
The idea of an AP bomb only works because of the velocity at the drop, which an "AP skip-bomb" would lose as soon as it hit the surface once. WW2 Germany experimented with diving air-dropped bombs, essentially an in-between of a torpedo and a dumb bomb. Clearly, it didn't work out as well as planned, but it would be interesting to see that over more skip bombers.
Skip-bombing with normal bombs was a fairly universally used bombing technique. Usually used against merchant targets where little to no AA return fire would be expected, it would be more likely to result in a hit than dive bombing. It is obviously not as exaggerated in range or bouncing as Wargaming has implemented it. There is no way that these bombs would have the energy after bouncing to penetrate an armored belt.
@@nickdubil90 bro not as exagerrated?They r literally saying AP skip bombers the design does not even exist thats like shooting AP shells from the air and making them skip like pebbles dude
So, who is in the mood for some light cruisers?
RIP.
Light cruiser main here - just make plane spotting minimap only and you can beat up on me all you want elsewise.
you mean lit cruisers
Destroyers were extinct due to many retard ships WG adding and now it's time for cruisers to gone as well
( I'm in Asia which at one point MM waiting queue was like 20 carriers 200 battleships and some one digit cruisers and destroyers and 20 submarines )
Just use the 5 D's...
Dodge, duck, dip, dive and... dodge!
@BoxdHound
The point of AP bomb is that it will penetrate the thin deck armor. Why would you try to penetrate the thickest part of the ship?
You also wouldn't attack a ship with skip bombs, where you have to fly low, slow and level and much easier to hit than in a dive. They needed a new gimmick, no reason to apply any kind of realism or logic.
You absolutely would Google is full of pictures of skip bombing against shipping
@@philippos5547 Skip bombs - all the disadvantages of torpedoes, with none of the advantages!
Might as well have HE skip bombs lol, AP will lose a LOT of pen over the skipping, let alone pen the deck at such a steep angle.
They don't, the go for upper thin armored part that can be easily punched through. If you land them on the armor belt you failed to skip them properly.
"Countered effectively by angling" (unless the CV players complain, and we make AP bombs overmatch any armor) :D
"Just angle" against planes that can turn on a dime, go several times your speed, and get to ignore any and all terrain that you might be using for cover. Not to worry, I'm sure that super effective AA will keep them from just orbiting above you until they get the perfect angle (Or you're forced to give broadside to the enemy team, killing you that way).
@@aegis027 yeh but the speed these bombs would be coming at towards your ship would make it quite difficult to do so I know it's sarcasm but still ...yeh AP bombers were used in WW2 but they werent used for ships they were used against bunkers, fortifications etc meaning stationary targets wht WG is implementing is cold war to modern era crap
Those angles explain how a Victoria hurt me the other day rip
Not really, since these changes are not yet in the game.
@@ivokr8 just San Martin things then
@@theShermanator Overmatch it seems
I'm liking how much wargaming is committed to making cruisers more unplayable with each patch
?
just sit behind an island and spam he
I agree, all this will do is make cruisers blow up even more
@@stoplossmr
And become an easy target for CVs or subs?
WG's been consistently nerfing cruisers by every change. We already see 6 BBs, 1 CV and 2 subs in an average game. I guess they need to fill up the remaining 3 slots
my games on average has 4 dds 0 cv and 1 sub.
I am just here for the entertainment at this point. 6 months clean no relapse so far
WG: We hear your concern that CVs require zero skill, and with AP skip bombs, the cv player will be required to count to TWO!
crazy how they buffed the max damage range of french DD one devblog but nerf it back right before release
It just didn't work, what's wrong with that, this is no issue in the sea of issues with wg
@@Cat_in_The-Box yeah but the fact that they nerf them before release ?
@@Chocolate_cooki3 - rather they nerf before release than wait till after the whales have spent big on the T10 early access then nerf after. There are ALWAYS howls when a ship is nerfed after release.
what i get from this whole dovbleg : either you will get dev strike by "AP Skip Bombs" or by Brick's Twelve-457mm guns!
well, choose your fate fellas 🤣
Thunderer camo looks like they put toothpaste on the ship
Closest thing I can think of to AP skip bombs is those rockets that the Brits would use to hit ships under the armor belts. Uncle Tom and Red Angel rockets I think they were called
The Vodka competition between Lesta and Wargaming is REAL. 381mm Guns with Yamato damage? Barkeeper? NEXT ROUND!!!
As far as i know skip bombing was only ever used for small ships (freighters, transports and DD) and not for well armored ships. I mean, even glide bombing would work better if you want a gimmick. (Not to be confused with modern glude bombs) Also, gravity was a huge part of AP bomb pen anyway.
It would not be surprising if to different types of AP Shells will mess up WGs spaghetti code
can't wait for Victoria modified high pen AP to bounce on slightly angled Tier 10-11 BB, because they already have belts sloped at ~20°
LET'S IMAGINE
Pretty cool that they added a camo for Zao so the new AP bombers have a highlighted target to hit. And a camo for Thunderer that also highlights the citadel area!
Amazing freeze frame after the fishes line, I can almost hear the canned laughter and the closing theme (I AM NOT CHAT GPT but that is an American sitcom joke :-P )
The switching of shells making you stealthier CAN make SOME sense, in the sense of detectability after shooting, but not base conceal. In WW2, the US was in the process of switching their powder charges from an older powder that gave the traditional huge fireball at the muzzle to a powder that produced almost no muzzle flash. In one Pacific night battle (blanking on which one) multiple US cruisers were carrying both. While shooting the flashless powder, they were nearly invisible in the darkness, but once they ran out and had to switch to the old powder the Japanese target finders quickly zeroed in on the flashes.
If the game goes on like this on the armaments on ships, soon we will have an ARP I-401 with the gravitational cannon that sinks everything from one side to the other of the map and just in case something survives it will have corrosive torpedoes that will one-shot everything except CVs and other submarines
Always given out great information man. Keep up the great work people would not stay informed as well without folks like you helping compare and explain all this type of info.
In the pacific, skip bombs were standard bombs that were dropped in a low level attack skipping the bombs into the side of mostly freighters and lightly armored ships (usually by B25s, A-20, A-26 twin engine bombers). The round bombs were bouncing bombs used in the European theater designed for use against the damns of the Ruhr Valley dropped by modified Lancaster 4 engine bombers.
AP bombs are possible, but should have low penetration.
I guess Logic of WeeGee of understanding laws of physics also throw out of the window. Skip AP bombers will never going to work IRL. That’s why they never continue to develop it after WWII because it is impractical. HE only hurts light target and AP is not going to be effective, because skipping in the water will cause the warhead to face wrong direction and failed to pen. That’s why in WWII they prefered regular bombs to dive bombs. Because let gravity do the rest is more effective than, torpedo the bomb.
But again, Laws of Physics alread thrown out of the window when WeeGee added Soviet BBs with 30s turret traverse.
Thunderer camo is like this is my citadel you can aim right here lool
Just for context. Skip bombing and skip bombs aren't the same thing. You can skip bomb with normal bombs you just have to be at the right altitude and speed but skip bombs allow you to use the skip bombing technique from much further away. Hence why with dam busters it gave the advantage of pulling up before going deep into the AAA defenses and causing the bomb to pull itself down to the base of the dam before detonation. The technique itself was for attacking unarmed merchant ships allowing aircrews to have a much higher chance of hitting the target prior to inventions like the Nordon Bombsight becoming widely issued.
Now does that change the fact it's stupid to lob AP bombs at the thickest part of the A in order to P? Nope BUT the concept is possible while being pointless... unless you're a WG gameplay designer.
Small addition. The Norden bombsight had been created. Level bombing of small, unarmed ships is just supper unreliable. It also allowed planes that didn't have a bombsight to have better hit chances.
just what a warship game needs.... more planes
When he said Theseus it sounded like feces
again WG...you proof to me again that "BRAIN CELLS AND GOOD DECISION MAKING SKILLS ARE INCREDIBLY HARD TO COME BY!!!
Hey we see improvement here. They aren’t saying dodge. They acknowledge you will take the hit. Just angle …
Devblog video let's gooooooo
HE skip bombing, that I can understand but not AP skip bombing.
WG have been drinking again
Check out all the physics experts in the video and comments section
Vodka must be on sale with a huge discount. Only explanation I can think of.
Currently trying my ass off on the treadmill and the dockyard announcement hurts way more than my legs
25:47
Ok regarding the skip bombers, I don't think any plane in game actually uses a bouncing bomb. I think the only time they were used was during the dam baster raids.
What actually is happening in game is the planes do a skip bombing run:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing
I am not going to comment on how realistic it is in game, or if it is even possible with ap bombs to penetrate anything like that. But I bet that is what WG is intending it to be.
Also, bouncing bombs are a type of skip bombs. You can literally skip gp bombs. Take B-25s for example.
Yay more planes in my boat game, just what I wanted.
Ah yes, the famous french dd's not like Italy had total control of the meditaranean sea and was the 3rd best naval power just after the Us and england, maybe on par with Japan, what can I expect from a company that made a russian line soo big and powerful it actually seems that they had a real navy at some point😂😂😂
In WoWS, the pity is the feeling you get playing the game.
Imagine those ap skip bombers get overpen mechanics :^]
At this point, just give the Tier 12 CVs a way to have B-24 Liberators and freakin Lancasters, give them dam buster bombs and lets watch the world burn.
Agreed with Brick leg mod to be useless.
I played it in brawls 5vs5 I guess, I didn't miss faster reload. But I was grateful for nice concealment and also that 5th module incoming shells increased spread.
Also the module half useless in no CV no sub games. Finally some subs can spot you at their torpedo max range(U2501) and kite free away as your ASW is 12km max?
They're watching the movie Battleship too much, that they thinks Alien 'skip bomb' was amazing. I mean they can speen so...
Thundy new camo easily told you where to shoot to get citadel, as enemy we love it which as use we hate it
Ap skip bomb is the same as the he except there are BIG SPIKE on it 😅. And wait for the Sap Skip Bomber 😂
Welcome my friends to the s*itshow that never ends
If you play carrier you would realize that people would rather angle against your carrier and give broadside to the rest of your team, rather than eating 10k dmg from a carrier salvo and not dev struck by a vermont instead.
Victoria is SAP and AP with insta change of shells...
Imagine AP skip bombs with arms race damages buffs
WG really knows exactly what the player base wants! ...
Perfect pairing, imagine #justdodge the AP skip bombs by angling only to turn into a ship like oh, say Victoria, Bungo, slava etc which are designed to punish broadsides........
Subs are so toxic WG said hold my beer, 2025 even more toxic CVs
HE skip bombers were a thing, just spinning explosive barrels
but AP? it would require both mass and velocity, and a fast spinning ball of iron would just sink instead of skipping...
cruiser players will love getting hit by 10-20k unrepairable cit damage because they have to decide between angling to a Vermont or 200kts AP planes coming from the side
New camo for removed from armory Thunderer. Do I see Thunderer coming back in loot box for real money?
Each year on Christmas, applies to all broken op ships removed from obtaining for being broken op
AP, skip, bomber, i know the meaning of all these words, but once you put them together... WHAT?
Thunderer will be available for shop????
Most gachas arent as money hungry as wargayming is.
Percentage in anime gacha games is better than containers
AP torpedo when
And I just got back into playing....
By WG's logic, these are hypersonic skip bombs I guess
Ap skip bommers are going to be insane. A yamato can one shot you unseen from the other side of the map.
Well, obviously, we should just dodge.
Imagine showing Broadside on cruisers🗿🗿🗿🗿
@@marcellistanto9600 no need to show it. They will get it on the second pass
The one WG intern writing these and still believing in the game is like the one kid from the Lorax who wants the trees back
TY🙏🙏
i bet one of them got the idea from skipping rocks on water and thought it was a good idea
B25 in Asia used to skip bombs into ships no AP AFAIK. The reason being that the b25 where mire accurate at low level. Dropping boms from up high was terrible inaccurate. Low level b25 with 10 12.7 machine guns where used to strafe and bomb ships. For this game its crap
giving WG benefit of the doubt?? in the glorious year of 2024??!?? #NotOurFlamuu
WG do WG things...
Technically Tachibana has better pen angles (check starts at 91 degrees meaning no ricochets ever) but that doesn't help much lel
Edit: Can't wait for those British ap rockets that are meant to cause flooding to be added into testing at some point in the future. Will be very funny.
The continuous aa damage is a very poor choice for a unique upgrade buff given Vermont has American AA and def AA.
if the secondary battery reloads faster or has decreased maximum dispersion would be a preferable buff.
I don't think wg gets the point on the legendary modules, they are all either a downgrade or a straight upgrade. Feels like it's just lazyness instead of testing something actually interesting they just slap whatever they think is gonna work on the ship and call it for the day.
take me back to the pre cv rework when things were simpler and better
oh god.
Game TOTALLY needed this…
Clueless company.
Why do german ships always get those super situational tools? Gimme my Fritz X instead :()
O lovely 😍 😅
Who is lesta?
The Russian Devs in charge of the new Russian version of WoWS after the split
have you seen new BP? 0 economic rewards omg, 1 port slot... as a new player I suffered when they had 4 slots per BP, that was not enough, imagine being a new player, just 1 port slot for the version....
literally 0... not even a gray ones.... not a single economic container
Meanwhile 5 tier 10 matches in a row in a tier 8 let's go play tier 6 double sub double cv ya more fun
Skip bombing uses regular bombs most of the time so you can use AP bombs you can also use it against land targets such as train tunnels bouncing the bomb off the tracks into the tunnel. The UK did have highball as a special anti ship weapon honesty surprised it's not in game yet
Man WG with its bullshitry just god damn it😢
Wargaming always was the stupidier in game, but smarter in sells.
Genshin impact has a 0.6% chance for a 5 star pull...... and they have a pity mechanic🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
i don't know how you do math over there but in the US. .07 is 7%, [Given, the number is 0.07 We have to find the percentage equivalent of the given number. To convert a number into percentage, it is multiplied by 100. Converting 0.07 into percentage, 0.07 × 100 = 7% Therefore, 0.07 is equivalent to 7%.]
WG make sense??? Now Flamu is the one that doesn't make sense XD
why? who asked for this?
The CV main trolls who are probably WG's core revenue source at this point. Just imagine how much worse it can get!
@superkang7448 I swear a world of warplanes dev got salty. "You don't want to go play WoWP. Fine. Well bring it to you"
you guys behave like children
believe it or not theres stuff ppl like that you dont
@@stoplossmr Found the CV main lmao
wargaming please stop this madness
''ap bombs doesnt make any sense''
in a game where ships has HP and heal(repair) itself.
lmao the one guy at chat: ships at island cant angle''
good
first
what shitty gatcha games are you playing? try some bandai gatchas 0.07 is kinda normal there but ye they have a pitty system