You know what would be really cool? If you scrolled back up and hit that like button! It really helps youtube get my videos out to more people. And if you really love what I do then consider subscribing as well!
reminder that major side quests like the ones shown in the video are cool and great at worldbuilding but sometimes people just want to go kill a hard thing and get a little bit of money, try to balance huge side quests with a few simple ones in between so players just wanting a little bit of extra cash don’t have to burn a large chunk of their play session if they don’t want to
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, having well-developed sidequests can go a long way to making a game world feel alive and make your player feel invested in the world and they help diversify the experience, by giving players something slightly different to do. But on the other hand, I think there is something to be said for really basic and simple sidequests. When your sidequests are basically min-stories, they break up the flow of the gameplay--basically, the player has to stop playing the game to go play a sidequest. Which is fine. But sometimes it's nice to have sidequests that simply reward the player for playing the game, where you can just fulfill the requirements by doing what you would already be doing. It gives the player a sense of reward and also drives them to play the game more fully. You COULD just run through the route from one end to the other, but you might stop to explore a little if you remember that there are some materials you need to collect. You COULD just choose to run away from that monster instead of fighting it, but you could get a reward by taking the time to kill it. These more basic quests can also feel really rewarding and help push the experience. Basically, I think it's good when a game has a balance of both--simple quests that are just part of the normal gameplay experience and more involved quests that give something different or tell a unique story.
Hi, I would say it doesn't break up the flow of the game if you do it right. Ideally, the player shouldn't have the option to have any sidequests during important story beats. As well, sidequests shouldn't pertain to anything related to the main plot. Your players should be able to run through the game completing zero sidequests and still understand and enjoy the main plot. Side quests should be used for a few reasons. To expand on the plot, (But not be mandatory) to expand on the world-building, or to engage the players. I agree in some regards you can have some simple side content, for example, if your side content was a hunters guild where each area contains a powerful monster to beat, they can get rewarded when then bring the monsters head back to the guild, and you don't need much story behind that.
Great examples! Keep it up! I always loved the sidequests in Majoras Mask. A good side quest can be very memorable and makes the whole world feel more alive and believable.
More of all of the above! One of my all time favorite side quests was Tarry Town in The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild. Another one was helping this guy confess his love to a girl. Unfortunately, many of the other side quests in the game were so lackluster in comparison. Thanks for the video!
Damn. You called me out at 2:50. in my game the first town a priest asks to fetch a bucket of water outside of his church (keeping it water will heal a little HP, having it turn into holy water with heal MP)
For the Holy Water quest, a very simple way to spice it up even further would be to let the players use the restoring scroll for themselves, or even just sell it. Because of their greed, the entire town dies and an encampment of enemies takes their place instead. Where you would normally get cheap items and cheap lodging if you saved them, you now get an XP farm. That second side quest is a great example of teaching by showing instead of just a tutorial and I honestly think it might be better as a main quest for that sole reason! Unless there are only enemies with runes on their backs in side quests, of course ;)
I've been following a bunch of the MZ tutorials you've done and then bounced around to some of the supplementary topics I find interesting, all really solid content. But I have to ask as I've now seen this many times across multiple videos, is the spelling of "Preist" some kind of running joke? In one video (I forget which) you had "Preist" written somewhere in some text and then proceeded to talk about classes and party members while showing off the actual "Priest' class. The timing of it all got a chuckle out of me.
I find this video super helpful! Thanks! I am creating a game for my students to play with, and I am kind of lost on what steps to follow when creating a narrative. I have the general idea and some side quests (that I'm definitely going to rethink after watching you). Would you mind making a video about this topic? It is very hard to find someone that talks about the creative process that leads you to make a game :)
Exception to the rule: my game is ONLY side quests. Meaning, the player character exists to help people--for good or for ill--and the results of his actions shape the world in very meaningful ways. However, unlike normal side quests, the ones in my game do not necessarily exist in a vacuum. NPCs will have many nuanced social connections, motivations, needs and ideas, and even interactions across the continent might have ramifications closer to home.
i was really over thinking a few sidequests lol wanted to have the protag have option to help a food truck vendor's cousin whose sis is having health issues, in return for a player doing it he'd surpise em by selling a good healing item cheap and giving a small supply for free in this case I used a soda lol, ik how original. is a really gud soda lol.
MMOs do it differently because in an MMO, the feedback loop is a lot different from a traditional RPG. There is a reason why MMOs have the side quests that they do. They are grindy by nature which isn't for everyone but it hooks the target demographic. That's why most MMOs are subscription-based as well, because their primary goal is to hook people and get them addicted to playing so that they'll spend more money. The primary objective of a traditional RPG is to tell a great story, I would argue, so it stands to reason that the quests should be more memorable and less grindy/repeatable.
@@beardalaxy Yeah I really enjoy Dungeons and Dragons online, where most quests hide the generic kill, fetch or escort missions trough a good narrative or a big puzzle to complete so it’s not just “go there and kill 100 Kobolds” but you’re defending a small outpost from being overrun by a clan of kobolds that constantly assail your position, combined with an npc that fights with you but is not allowed to die there is a lot more going on than just “go and kill”. Another memorable quest is a simple fetch quest, go into a dungeon and collect 6 parts of a artifact. Sounds simple enough but the dungeon is wide spanning with the parts hidden away and requiring certain stats so you won’t be able to get all parts on your first try unless you have a balanced party or some buff spells or potions. It also helps that the game rewards killing and looting things that aren’t the main objective. Like your main objective might just be “sneak in the enemy encampment and steal important documents” so you could sneak by all the guards, grab the documents and finish the quest or you could go around killing everyone and gain a bit more extra experience. There are some outliers that are very much filler quests like go into this dungeon and kill X enemies, but it’s often spiced up with an interesting dungeon layout, a puzzle or randomly spawning boss encounters that can add more challenge to a rather boring task.
You know what would be really cool?
If you scrolled back up and hit that like button!
It really helps youtube get my videos out to more people.
And if you really love what I do then consider subscribing as well!
reminder that major side quests like the ones shown in the video are cool and great at worldbuilding but sometimes people just want to go kill a hard thing and get a little bit of money, try to balance huge side quests with a few simple ones in between so players just wanting a little bit of extra cash don’t have to burn a large chunk of their play session if they don’t want to
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, having well-developed sidequests can go a long way to making a game world feel alive and make your player feel invested in the world and they help diversify the experience, by giving players something slightly different to do. But on the other hand, I think there is something to be said for really basic and simple sidequests. When your sidequests are basically min-stories, they break up the flow of the gameplay--basically, the player has to stop playing the game to go play a sidequest. Which is fine. But sometimes it's nice to have sidequests that simply reward the player for playing the game, where you can just fulfill the requirements by doing what you would already be doing. It gives the player a sense of reward and also drives them to play the game more fully. You COULD just run through the route from one end to the other, but you might stop to explore a little if you remember that there are some materials you need to collect. You COULD just choose to run away from that monster instead of fighting it, but you could get a reward by taking the time to kill it. These more basic quests can also feel really rewarding and help push the experience. Basically, I think it's good when a game has a balance of both--simple quests that are just part of the normal gameplay experience and more involved quests that give something different or tell a unique story.
Hi, I would say it doesn't break up the flow of the game if you do it right. Ideally, the player shouldn't have the option to have any sidequests during important story beats. As well, sidequests shouldn't pertain to anything related to the main plot. Your players should be able to run through the game completing zero sidequests and still understand and enjoy the main plot. Side quests should be used for a few reasons. To expand on the plot, (But not be mandatory) to expand on the world-building, or to engage the players. I agree in some regards you can have some simple side content, for example, if your side content was a hunters guild where each area contains a powerful monster to beat, they can get rewarded when then bring the monsters head back to the guild, and you don't need much story behind that.
This holy water quest sounds like something a DM would make. That bear didn't look like a bear.
Thanks for the examples this has got my creative juices flowing and will definitely help create better quest
Glad it helped! Any you care to share?
@@LvLUpDesign nothing in particular at the moment, but I'm working on designing some.
Great examples! Keep it up! I always loved the sidequests in Majoras Mask. A good side quest can be very memorable and makes the whole world feel more alive and believable.
I agree. Some of my best experiences in games have been through fun sidequests
I like the RPG DOJO videos as game design is new to me (I design/develop financial systems). I hope they keep coming.
Glad to hear that my videos are helping you!
More of all of the above!
One of my all time favorite side quests was Tarry Town in The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild. Another one was helping this guy confess his love to a girl. Unfortunately, many of the other side quests in the game were so lackluster in comparison.
Thanks for the video!
Glad you like it!
Side quests with an identifiable story to get attached to are awesome!
Great video as always. Thanks for breaking it down for new people like myself.
No problem. I'm glad my videos help!
Damn. You called me out at 2:50. in my game the first town a priest asks to fetch a bucket of water outside of his church (keeping it water will heal a little HP, having it turn into holy water with heal MP)
Oooooo, Moral Choices!
@@LvLUpDesign Yeah sorta I have many ideas but I don't know how to make them
For the Holy Water quest, a very simple way to spice it up even further would be to let the players use the restoring scroll for themselves, or even just sell it. Because of their greed, the entire town dies and an encampment of enemies takes their place instead. Where you would normally get cheap items and cheap lodging if you saved them, you now get an XP farm.
That second side quest is a great example of teaching by showing instead of just a tutorial and I honestly think it might be better as a main quest for that sole reason! Unless there are only enemies with runes on their backs in side quests, of course ;)
You're right on both fronts, main thing is to add character to your side quests. Give them meaning. None of this mindless kill 10 squirrels.
It's VEEERY useful!! Awesome video! Waiting for new DOJOs
Coming soon! I gotta get some free time to film all of these videos!
Excellent ideas. Nevermind RPG makers, there are triple A game devs that could use this advice
Best RPGs I ever played all had more memorable side quests than an actual main story :D
You can even nest kill quest.escort quest ,etc inside a fetch quest. Great!!
Yep yep! You just have to give them meaning. Existing for more than just the sake of being there!
Mind blowing!
Thanks My man!
Awesome advice. Thanks a lot!
I've been following a bunch of the MZ tutorials you've done and then bounced around to some of the supplementary topics I find interesting, all really solid content. But I have to ask as I've now seen this many times across multiple videos, is the spelling of "Preist" some kind of running joke?
In one video (I forget which) you had "Preist" written somewhere in some text and then proceeded to talk about classes and party members while showing off the actual "Priest' class.
The timing of it all got a chuckle out of me.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it🙃🙂
I find this video super helpful! Thanks!
I am creating a game for my students to play with, and I am kind of lost on what steps to follow when creating a narrative.
I have the general idea and some side quests (that I'm definitely going to rethink after watching you).
Would you mind making a video about this topic? It is very hard to find someone that talks about the creative process that leads you to make a game :)
amazing video
Exception to the rule: my game is ONLY side quests. Meaning, the player character exists to help people--for good or for ill--and the results of his actions shape the world in very meaningful ways. However, unlike normal side quests, the ones in my game do not necessarily exist in a vacuum. NPCs will have many nuanced social connections, motivations, needs and ideas, and even interactions across the continent might have ramifications closer to home.
You being a fcking huge help bro ✌
Thanks for the comment. I'm glad it helps!
just cool , "how to make romance and baby system" great, thx
i was really over thinking a few sidequests lol wanted to have the protag have option to help a food truck vendor's cousin whose sis is having health issues, in return for a player doing it he'd surpise em by selling a good healing item cheap and giving a small supply for free in this case I used a soda lol, ik how original. is a really gud soda lol.
Just dropped like #500 for ya. Thanks for all the info. :)
#500? What does this mean?
Look to witcher 3 for good sidequests and MMOs for shitty bad, no goOD BAD QUEST
great video btw
Thanks bro! Great to have support! Always great to see new people on the channel!
MMOs do it differently because in an MMO, the feedback loop is a lot different from a traditional RPG. There is a reason why MMOs have the side quests that they do. They are grindy by nature which isn't for everyone but it hooks the target demographic. That's why most MMOs are subscription-based as well, because their primary goal is to hook people and get them addicted to playing so that they'll spend more money. The primary objective of a traditional RPG is to tell a great story, I would argue, so it stands to reason that the quests should be more memorable and less grindy/repeatable.
@@beardalaxy Yeah I really enjoy Dungeons and Dragons online, where most quests hide the generic kill, fetch or escort missions trough a good narrative or a big puzzle to complete so it’s not just “go there and kill 100 Kobolds” but you’re defending a small outpost from being overrun by a clan of kobolds that constantly assail your position, combined with an npc that fights with you but is not allowed to die there is a lot more going on than just “go and kill”. Another memorable quest is a simple fetch quest, go into a dungeon and collect 6 parts of a artifact. Sounds simple enough but the dungeon is wide spanning with the parts hidden away and requiring certain stats so you won’t be able to get all parts on your first try unless you have a balanced party or some buff spells or potions. It also helps that the game rewards killing and looting things that aren’t the main objective. Like your main objective might just be “sneak in the enemy encampment and steal important documents” so you could sneak by all the guards, grab the documents and finish the quest or you could go around killing everyone and gain a bit more extra experience. There are some outliers that are very much filler quests like go into this dungeon and kill X enemies, but it’s often spiced up with an interesting dungeon layout, a puzzle or randomly spawning boss encounters that can add more challenge to a rather boring task.
Weird question: Why didn't the Priest use the scroll of restoration for his wife?
"your players shouldnt have to do a bunch of sidequests in order to proceed in the game"
COUGH COUGH XENOBLADE 2 TORNA COUGH COUGH
It's too long for a side quest as a fanatic gamer i would quit after like half at best that quest is overly complicated leave that to main quests