4th generation SDA here. Absolutely love the message of Come and Reason ministry. Thank you for having Dr. Jennings and sharing this amazing end time message!
The Sabbath keepers are obsessed with the mission to bring all of Christianity and the entire world Under the *"ministration of DEATH and CONDEMNATION WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES"* 2Cor. 3:7-9 and *the letter that "killeth"* (vs.6) of *the law engraved in the tablets of stone!* ( *2 Cor. 3:7* ), called the *"Ministration of DEATH"* , and the *"Ministration of condemnation"* VS 8-9 and use Christ's name to do it! 2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord IS THAT Spirit: and where the *Spirit of the Lord is, there is LIBERTY.* *Love is the fulfilling of the law, my friend. *The Apostle Paul condemns the Judaziers saying. Phil **3:18** *"For many walk, of whom I have TOLD YOU OFTEN, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIES of the cross of Christ:"* Paul's Epistle to the Church of Rome: Romans 7:6 • *But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held* ; that we should serve in *newness of spirit, and NOT in the oldness of the letter.* Indeed, the 10 commandments are the ministration of DEATH and CONDEMNATION, engraved in STONE. Once you get that, you will before forced to come to Christ for mercy and forgiveness. The very fact that 2Cor.3:6-9 calls *the 10 commandments the MINISTRATION OF DEATH AND CONDEMNATION ENGRAVED IN STONE proves Col. **2:16** means the weekly Sabbath.* You all do the same thing with Eph. 2:15! But, you all will lie and deceive to do anything to keep your followers at the expense of going to hell in the process. *But, beware, if you return to the LAW OF THE ministration of death and condemnation, *there will be no more sacrifice for you, because you have done despite to the Spirit of Grace and trodden underfoot the blood of Christ by whom you were ONCE sanctified (Heb.10:28)
I am a member of Dr. Jennings SS class. I have been an Adventist my whole life, raised in a very conservative family. Since going to his class he has opened my eyes to be able to discern the biblical truth about God. He has a way of explaining the Bible that is so simple and yet more meaningful. I love his ministry.
Hey SDA members--I know you are disappointed and/or embarrassed by SDA nonsense associated with leaders and pastors. I get it. I've been going to church for 70 years. SDA Dan & Revelation seminars are basically religious BAIT & SWITCH programs to get people to join SDA Laodiceans and after they are in church they are criticized, by inept, poorly trained SDA pastors, for being tithe robbing, sabbath slacking, love-lacking, lazy, lousy lukewarm Laodicean LOSERS! Then after they have been berated, they are told to "finish the work" and tell everyone the "3 angels messages" to scare them with mark of the beast, Sunday law, close of probation, time of trouble, death decree and last plagues. Soooo do you really care if the SDA denomination CRASHES & BURNS??? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?? HUH?? Reply to this and I can teach you how to make a positive difference in this world & really be SALT & LIGHT...and have a real purpose for your life!!
I'll bet He can't explain who Jesus is. Because of he is an SDA person ..he doesn't have the real Jesus! It's impossible! He's got a degree in absolutely nothing !
That has got to be the clearest presentation I have ever heard in my life on being a Christian as an Adventist and one who has been apart of another denomination that is the clearest I have ever heard please have him back on we all need more clarity especially in the times we are living God bless you
Since 2009, I have always appreciated Dr. Jenning's approach of seeking to understand before being understood. As a lifelong Adventist, it can be a bit jarring to have yet another "expert" challenge your childhood faith. Yet Tim has truly examined the assumptions of Christianity fairly, with a balanced approach of weighing evidences first before providing his considerable insight, experience, and God-given wisdom to the discussion. Dr. Jennings has personally caused my lifelong faith to grow and mature in countless ways that I will remain ever thankful for. May God continue to bless Tim and the outreach of Come and Reason Ministries.
Really enjoyed this presentation. Tim Jennings has such clarity into the real issues surrounding us, and presents the best picture of the character of God that I've heard. I am a 4th generation Adventist and my faith has grown and matured so much through the past couple of decades, much of that growth due to the insights and teaching of Dr. Jennings.
Very thought provoking. I hope Tim is brought on again for further interviews and to share insights. I thought the panel did well in getting some answers but it begs for more!!
I'm excited to attend Dr. Jennings weekly online SS class. The truth about the loving character of God he presents resonates with me and has changed my relationship with God and others! I was a 3rd Gen SDA and a graduate of their educational system. I left the church 30 years ago b/c I never bought into the Corporate penal view of God culture taught at every level of the global organization. I encourage others to come and see what a loving God view will do to heal you!
I left the church at the age of 15 and was gone for more than 20 years and was never coming back because of this very same harsh, legalistic view of God. I attended Sunday churches and learned more about the love of God, righteousness and my identity in Christ than all the years in any SDA church. All I learned in the SDA were rules, performance based Christianity, loyalty to an organisation, keeping, status quo and keeping the Sabbath out of fear that if you break it God will get you. For a seeker of truth and someone who desires intimacy with Jesus this experience was woefully lacking. God brought me back in 2017 after much resistance on my part but now I know he wants me to bring this same truth and live as a living example to those still trapped in the organisation and in need of a real understanding of the true nature and character of God. This is my first time listening to Time and it's what I have been asking God for. Thank God for the insights of Dr. Jennings and his willingness to allow Holy Spirit to guide him.
Thank you for featuring Doctor Jennings on your program. I am a third-generation Seventh-day Adventist, baptized in 1972. Reading my Scriptures I was experiencing some cognitive dissonance because what I was reading was not in harmony with what I had always been taught and always believed, specifically the Adventist doctrine on the Heavenly Sanctuary. Until I somehow came across Doctor Jennings' teaching on the Heavenly Sanctuary, I was unable to resolve the dissonance. But now everything beautifully falls into place and makes perfect sense. Thanks again for featuring Doctor Jennings. I'm certain that it required intestinal fortitude on your part.
After reading and listening to many of Dr Jennings teachings and following the weekly lesson studies it has being transformative in developing a renewed relationship with Christ. Being a lifelong SDA and fully indoctrined in the penal- legal view of God , I now am experiencing a rebirth of my trust in the God of the Bible. I'm fully persuaded that developing the character of Christ is more important than ever. It's almost feel like I'm seeing God for the first time as my confidant and friend rather than the harsh judge I was afraid of. Blessing to Dr Jennings and the Come and Reason ministry ee
Love this picture of God, the last message to the world a revelation of God's character and a proper understanding of His law as the principle of how life was meant to operate
Thank you for all that you are doing to bring different perspectives to Seeking What They Sought.. I enjoyed listening to Dr. Jennings. He presented so many things to chew on and bring to God in prayer. His explanations just seemed to make so much more sense. For example, the explanation of The Ransom. Fascinating. I hope you bring him back for more discussion.
I have been listening to Dr. Jennings since 2018 and I have never stopped. He’s a wonderful teacher and my relationship with God has never been so great.
I love this guy! I first seen Tim Jennings on a DVD someone lent me "The God Shaped Brain" and as a new convert, it really helped me to understand the two different groups of Adventists in my own church. I almost left because of the legalists, until Tim explained it so well. Since then, whenever it's my turn to share, whether through prayer group, Sabbath school, or on the rare occasion preaching, I always present the message through the lens of Design law. In fact whenever I have to lead out in Sabbath school, I always check out Tim's view of the message first, just in case I've missed something. *The best way to evangelise the church with the true message is from within*
Very true. I had a very traditionalist Adventist during our Sabbath School start yelling, “God's judgment starts at the house of God!” He began yelling this over and over again. Was very ardent in being very strict in health reform and the traditional view of the Adventist view of the three angels' messages. Was wanting to have a "word" with me after the Sabbath School Lesson. Sad, sad! 😢
I had a death experience. The God of love and light I met is not the romanized God I had been taught as a called out one who accepts His love. Thanks law of love is what changed me, saved me at my most broken. Religion saves no one. I appreciate Dr Jennings very much.
Having been raised an SDA and attending 15 years of SDA schools, we were not taught to ask why? The Bible says it, believe it! What a great message to Come And Reason together! Ask the questions, be convinced in your own mind. If the SDA schools were to teach this, the true character of God would be so much clearer! And many of the youth would still be with the church.
Hey guys firstly I want to thank you for setting up this platform to ask the question, “What is an Adventist?” I was born and raised as a practising Catholic. Later converting into the SDA church in Australia as a seeking the truth, adult. So hearing Dr Tim Jennings his view on being an Adventist and highlighting how the SDA church is practising similar to having the mindset and indoctrination of a Catholic! It took me 4yrs of listening to Dr Jennings Bible SS lessons via TH-cam, just ask God to help me see what that looks like in my life. I am still on that journey of seeing the fruits of the Spirit working in me to live His Creative Law functionally in my life. Bottom line - Levels of Spiritual Maturity will take diligence in seeking Him and His truth will set you free from the Imperial Law constructs in one’s life, to being Holy Spirit led. May the good Lord of the harvest work in and through you as inidividuals to do a good work collectively. God bless my brothers in Christ ❤
What an excellent discussion! And however you come away from this conversation, one this is for sure, "God is not the executioner in the end--its sin--the distortions and lies we believe that keep us hostage and way from truly knowing and being healed (restored) by God. Thus our church (The Seventh-day Adventist Church) has missed the 1844 and 1888 marks, thus joining itself to this day with the world's beastly pagan system. "Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward. But in the period of doubt and uncertainty that followed the disappointment, many of the advent believers yielded their faith.... Thus the work was hindered, and the world was left in darkness. HAD THE WHOLE ADVENTIST BODY UNITED UPON THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS, how widely different would have been our history!" We are not united on God's Commandments nor the faith of Jesus. Our church has accepted a legal-penal view of God's Law--which distorts God's character. May God reach all who are in the SDA Church with His Love, Truth and Freedom.
@@JenniferPatterson-r9x If one were to give up a penal, legal view of God, understand the nature of Sin, the GC, God's plan to heal, etc, and view God's Law as built into the very fabric of reality--not a mere list of rules, there would be no need to ask---it would be obvious!
Yes, i totally agree with Dr Jennings. I don't want to say to people that I am an Adventist not only because their perceptions of an Adventist but because most of them in my church are hypocrites and show no sign of compassion to needy people other than saying they will pray for them or only do it openly when their acts of kindness can be publicly seen. we are not what we claim we are but how we love one another. Thank God for Dr Jennings to speak out and draw the lights for many Christians living in fantasy under the veils cast by the church leaders.
@@JamieElison Thank you Were you a former sda? I find their religion the MOST satanic because they can sound good but THAT poison is in that mix and will DESTROY you. The deception is. ABSOLUTELY deadly
💙🙏👼*MAY OUR BELOVED CREATOR GOD BLESS DOCTOR TIM JENNINGS RICHLY & MORE ABUNDANTLY..WE WE'RE SO BLESSED,THANK YOU FOR YOUR VERY FAITHFUL DEVOTED UNTIRING,**COME & REASON MINISTRIES**.TO OUR HEAVENLY FATHER ALONE BE ALL THE HIGHEST HONOR, GLORY & PRAISE!* *AMEN*MARANATHA*👼🙏💙
Amazing, we shipped not only Ellen White to Australia, but prayer, fasting, and all the things that can really bring us together to Christ and know His true Character. It’s overwhelmingly painful to be part of a SDA church, to see Pastors and people in most of the congregations today, completely oblivious of the real war that is going on just before our eyes. The only reason I keep my faith is that through the works of Ellen White, she says that God will do with this church, because there is no more time to create another one. So we must keep the faith, praying, fasting, spreading His word, exercising our Christianity and watching for the signs. God is in control, and the remanescente os His people are waiting faithfully for His command. 🙏🏽
Doctor Timothy Jennings is speaking from the heart and he is right on point with how people need to start looking at God in the fullness of his glory that he is. Instead of us having an idea based on a society that is only an idea that comes from satanic ideas and is based on a Roman Catholic Papal system philosophy and theology.
1:11 finally got to his answer my below question. I seriously HAD that taught to me as an Adventist AND a Catholic. God is not a wrathful judge but a loving Father whose laws are to prevent and cure sin. I don't know of anyone but Calvinists who have that view of a Sovereign God whose connection to justice is based on wrath.
Thank You Dr. Jennings. We are told in the SOP the character of God is the glory of God. Reflecting His character is how we glorify Him and that requires knowing Him and obeying Him from love.
I met Dr Jennings in the GC meetings in San Antonio in 2015. We visited his booth and receive books that really enjoyed reading. When I saw his Sabbath school class I listened every week. Yes he truly makes the lessons clear. Thanks a lot to him. He is being used by God.
Appreciated this greatly. And thank you for the comments about the covid travesty. And the unfortunate loss of life and the gross fear that was projected. God bless each one.
Love Come and Reason. It has brought me so much closer to God. It has opened up my understanding to so many bibical subjects and I no longer wonder if I'm good enough or doing enough.
Thank you for allowing a fresh view of Christianity (the most plausible to me thus far) and what it means to be a christian. I would like to hear other invitees respond to the multiple issues raised by Dr. Jennings in regards to the fundamental beliefs thought in the Adventist Church. TY and looking forward.
I am deeply grateful for Dr Jennings perspective. It has made so much sense and been so wonderful during an thru Covid to hear truth spoken. He has blessed our lives
I listen to Come and Reason Sabbath School lessons each week. I discovered the channel during COVID lockdown when churches were closed. Each day I would listen to a different Adventist TH-cam presentation on the current lesson. The difference in how God's law is seen comes through pretty clearly in the different presentations. This prompted me to look for more information on how to understand the Bible better, and TH-cam algorithms offered me A picture of God in All 66 Books by Graham Maxwell. I am going through these discussions/presentations for the second time now. The understanding of Dr Jennings and Graham Maxwell are remarkably similar, so this view is nothing new. It is just that Satan tries incessantly to prevent the message from reaching the people who really need to hear it. God is not the kind of Person Satan has made Him out to be. He is not the source of inflicted pain, punishment and death. He is the Great Physician who offers to heal us if we are willing to listen, and to work with the Holy Spirit in the restoration process.
I felt some confusion the first time I heard it. However, it started to answer me my old deep questions that I felt fear to ask because I love my church.
Gosh! This was FANTASTIC! I regularly watch the Come and Reason SS Lessons because I resonate with the take notes from what is taught and discussed. I think that I will now look at the website (& possibly buy The Remedy paraphrased bible too). I really do hope that you have a further discussion with Dr Jennings (perhaps more than 1), because I’d be really keen to hear a discussion between him and Myles Christian. That would be so enlightening I think. Again, another interesting discussion. I truly appreciate this platform. Thank you.
I have known Tim for almost 40 years. We are not personal friends but I have known him since he was at Southern College(SMC). Tim is extremely bright with a very high I.Q. He ALSO has a very large ego. He has brought many wonderful truths to people both SDA and non SDA. I’m not sure he considers himself a practicing SDA as he hasn’t been part of an Adventist church for years. When I challenged him on this he deflected and became very defensive. Again, I am grateful to Tim for the light he has shone on the gospel. I would remind your listeners here who admire Dr. Jennings to keep your eyes fixed on Jesus. Test the spirits and cling to what is good. Don’t follow a man or a man’s teachings. This is natural with us. We must rise above that weakness and keep our gaze fixed on Jesus. In time, Tim may prove to be a stumbling block for many. Don’t let that happen. Jesus first, last and always. 🙏🏻
Tim always says, "don't believe it just because I say something. Study it for yourself". In fact at about 1:20:00 he covers this very thing. This is what I have done when I have disagreed with him and most of the time I come to see that he is correct. I've been very blessed by his ministry and his thoughts on God's law and character. I believe he is more of a practicing SDA than most SDA's that attend a church building each week. Tim's ministry reaches more people than most SDA churches and He does have fellowship with other SDA individuals at His place of ministry each Sabbath. I see it as similar to some of the home churches of the early church. Yes, let's keep our eyes on Jesus! I don't follow any man or woman but if their teaching points me to a better view of God which then leads me to study more and follow God with all my heart then I think that is a positive ministry no matter what their personality might be like. I love studying God's word and SOP more than ever before. I can hardly wait to be with Him.
I appreciate Dr Jennings’ appeal to higher moral reasoning as well as his critique of church admins as often focusing on policy and rule-following. On the other hand, I think his view of second temple Judaism (not to mention the “Constantinian Shift”) is woefully behind the times. The factional dynamics of Jesus’ day cannot be reduced to Jesus’ moral maturity vs Pharisaical “legalism.”
I've been an Adventist my whole life. I read the Bible. I read EGW Conflict of the Ages Series more than once. I study the Sabbath school lessons. I had some ideas about this in high school decades ago. Jennings is absolutely right.
I think it would be good for every seminary professor and student along with every pastor and those who are employed by the church organization to read chapter 4 of Councils to Writers and Editors from EGW.
@@JamieElison You must not have read what I suggested because it says if we study our Bible's we will receive more and more light. She says that just because you have believed a teaching for many years it doesn't make it infallible. She always directed people to the Bible and said if people really studied their Bible as they should they would not need her messages.
@@JamieElison You may consider her to be a false prophet but outside of the Bible I've not read anything that has drawn me closer to Jesus than Steps to Christ, Desire of Ages, Thoughts from the Mount of Blessings and Christ Object Lessons.
When people hold on to penal legal, it is so sad. Because we remain so cruel to each other while professing righteousness. Especially, pastors who are not connected to God but given power over God's people. Some (not all) just use this power to abuse people. I'm really longing for people to come to know the true God and truly learn to love each other.
The Tim Jennings interview was very engaging but the Ted Wilson interview seemed like the interviewers were intimidated with asking deep, probing questions that would challenge Ted Wilson
I praise the Lord because He is bringing back the message of 1888 ; and if the GC had not rejected it they would bring the Character of God message that Jennings , dr Elliot Dougling from Barbados, Dennis Priebe , I read the book of F. T Wright God’s Sabbath Rest very good. By the way dr Dougling. and F T Wright was disfellowshipped from the church. He would be great if you can interview him. Thanks for bringing T Jennings.
I have been an Adventist now for almost 3 years. Baptized and I believe the Lord opened my eyes to this .... That all of the churches that changed their emblems from the three angel's message over to the six flames, a book and an upside down cross, Well that's what it looks like to me, well they all teach the same categories in sabbath school and the sermons every sabbath..... I believe they're going by what the general conference want them to Teach, Compared to the Adventist churches that has the 3 angels going around the globe emblem, They teach differently they do not teach what the general conference wants them to teach, They are teaching and preparing the flock according to the Bible, and what's happening around the world.... The church's that has the 3 angels message emblem is showing real things that's happening in the entire world, in the news that is going along with what Jesus said was going to happen..... But the churches that has the six Flames emblem they teach what the general conference want them to teach..... There is a big difference within the church that I have noticed already .
There's no globe in the Bible neither did the founders teach the globe doctrine. It's a circle (circuit) not a globe. Isaiah 40:20 states circle of the earth. Circle is 2 dimensional. The Earth is observably, measurably and navigated flat and stationary with a firmament above us.(in Hebrew raka meaning firm and solid.
@@kickhisassseabass318an aliens live on the bottom side that's were there hiding.😮 My friend helped build the Hubble telescope he'll tell you you don't know what you're doing!
@candace is it really angels going around a globe? There's no globe in the Bible and the early Adventists were mostly flat earth. Isaiah mentions circle of the earth but circle is flat not spherical so maybe the image of the angels is going around circle of earth not globe
I am an African Adventist Baha’i. The Adventist side of me is that I am a vegetarian. The Baha’i in me is that I love people of ALL religions, including SDA.
I wasn't taught that God kills and destroys in Adventism or Catholicism. If you mean that in the Judgement (final), well I don't remember that any of my SDA pastors or teachers really dealt with that at all. In fact I was taught that when an Adventist dies, if he/she didn't die in the Lord, they simply ceased to exist. So there was no wrath of God or punishment. Catholicism teaches that those who choose hate, instead of love, and persist in doing so without repentance, have CHOSEN not to enter eternity with God. Choosing "hell" (whatever that means--the Catholic Catechism tells us that the MAIN thing we experience in hell is separation from God), is our voluntary, and final choice. Hell doesn't surprise anyone and those in hell would choose it again because love is so repugnant to them that they would PREFER hell over being obedient to God in his kingdom. So I have never, ever been taught a God who kills and destroys from the religions I've been a member of.
What a tangled web we weave. when we don't rightly divide scripture and we TRY in our intellect to figure out God's WAY. This man is just adjusting mrs white to fit his narrative of God's character
@@americanswan l love testimonials of those who have been delivered from any cult. Jesus is absolutely the ONLY WAY and HE FINISHED the work for salvation. We must rest in him COMPLETE
"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:" Revelation 6:16
I believe Dr. Jennings is wrong on one point ... there are now 28 Fundamentals not 27. Other than that, thank you for an amazing interview. God bless "Come and Reason Ministries" and "Seeking What They Sought". Keep up the good work.
To clarify what was said, I was quoting out of the book titled The 27 Fundamental Beliefs, not asserting that there are today only 27 Fundamental Beliefs.
@@timjennings8179 No worries, all good. Thank you for clarifying and for making a lot of sense out of the nonsense. I am already subscribed to the "Come and Reason Ministries" channel on TH-cam and look forward to the follow up interview with "Seeking What They Sought".
@@timjennings8179how do you get from 457 B.C in the spring of the year.. to the fall of 1844 to create the cult of SDA in the first place?? is she a true prophet?
@@timjennings8179 what do you say regarding this statement? Are these particular things stated here, true? Thank you! “Ask yourself why Jennings teaches a SS class he does not believe in. I had a very good friend send me the videos to watch. 5 mins in I knew something was off. Jennings is crafty. He seeks to confuse by quoting Ellen White when in reality, he does not believe her. Read his paper on his website on Justification and then read what sister White taught in Faith and Works. Ask why Jennings seeks to redefine Justification using his own words vs scripture and sister White. He uses NIV a lot which is a paraphrase. He states he likes the overall meaning better than a word for word translation. In fact he wrote his own paraphrase which he pushes all the time. We need to study scripture with the Hebrew and Greek direct word for word interpretation in hand. It really is amazing how much it comes alive when we do!! Jennings does not believe in the pre advent judgement. He tears down our church. I heard him say the "1st sealing" is for the teachers and prophets and then God will seal the rest. ?? That is NOT biblical. I encourage everyone to get in the word and study for yourselves. Listening to someone tear apart the SS week after week is not biblical. He should leave the church. Sadly he is deceiving many.” by @dmarie6824
How does designing law and restoration work for those who don’t mature to the highest levels and therefore not fully restored? Are they saved ? Genuine question… I am sure he sees them as saved, but from logic I was wondering if this was saying you needed to be fully restored or not?
You can ask your question to him personally at his website. There is a Q&A each week after his SS class. I think you have to join as a member to ask questions.
@@kjohnson8174 thank you. Will try give it a try. Though with my luck on asking over internet… they are usually skipped. Enjoyed the interview- wish they had kept going and allowing him to go deeper on the topics and ask more questions
The thief on the cross was at the 1st level of understanding the character of God. “Remember me when you enter into your kingdom”. Your belief in God as the remedy can occur at any phase of Christian growth. God Will continue the full restoration in heaven! Blessings! God is Good!
@user-rg I believe this might be a helpful analogy. Let's say you're terminally ill and covered in boils. If you trust the doctor will heal you from the illness, providing you accept and partake of the remedy(Christ), you're already on the path to life even though it takes time to be fully restored. So if you got run over by a truck before full restoration you've already been saved. In the legal model, salvation means a legal declaration, however there isn't any scripture to support the idea that salvation is in any way a legal process.
I would say Dr Jennings says the truth to the extent but to say others are wrong and he is right i don't think i would agree with him. Jesus never rejected or annulled the leadership of the church despite that he disagreed with them but he respected and upheld the leadership. But I don’t understand the independent ministries breaking up with the leadership of the church.
He does state often that he doesn't claim to have the correct interpretation of everything but yeah I think I get what you mean. Regarding independent ministries breaking away, I recall the the church leadership pushing mandatory chemical injections and breathing restriction face apparatus recently 🤔
I think his right vs wrong moment was when dr Jennings was contrasting statements he made about Covid that were later found correct. You’re correct that Jesus doesn’t reject people; they ultimately reject Him: “The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone.” Mark 12:10
I don’t know where you grew up doctor or which Adventist church u went to,are you talking about seventh day Adventist church or just Adventist ? Because there is a difference between the two. Anyway I grew up very happy seventh day Adventist, always we or I was told or thought to read and study for myself by my church leaders ,that is why you and I had Bible and sabbath school lessons to help us to study Bible for ourselves then as you said we had Spirit of prophecy books to read for ourselves and pray . I am very great full for seventh day Adventist church to help me in that way! These days I hear many people making the leadership a reason or accountable for their ignorance ,I am respectfully say this including you doctor . Unless for my own fault ,I grew up very happy and free ,not only does and don’ts . I was always thought about the law but not legalism may be the matter depend on our own understanding of the leaders. We need to remember that what Jesus told to his disciples in Mattew 23 1-3 I heard you on another video on coming out ministry too ,I see exaggeration in your presentations. I learned that Jesus paid the wage for humanities sins by taking away the condemnation of sin from us by dying our death . The Bible teaches there r records in heaven . I think we have to blame somebody on the media as it is becoming our habit these days. I am not saying don’t touch the leaders ,but we can not make them all accountable for the teachings we didn’t understand or misunderstood in the past .
@mercywolde5630 I am having the same thoughts. I agree that you must search the scriptures for yourself. While we can listen to others, we must go to God who will help us understand His word. I was taught by my parents to study for oneself and do not accept anything anyone says until you compare and test it by the word for yourself. That is the biggest issue of the church, we are no longer known as the "people of the book"
@seekingwhattheysought love the healing model and design law concepts. Something that struck me as I listened was this seems a bit like repackaged last generation theology, ie when peoples characters are fully developed then Jesus can come back. I wish you would have pushed back on that and if there is a future episode with Tim ask him about that.
Brother Justin! I went to their site and looked up LGT and came across a blog Dr. Jennings wrote last year. The “TL;DR” version is that LGT is normally taught in an imposed law view where perfection has to do with deeds and actions that are in line with “the rules.” However, biblical perfection as Jennings advocates is a state of complete love and trust and maturity of character - not a sinless state. For example, Jesus was born sinless but had to develop that mature or perfect character by coming to love and trust God even to the point of the Cross. I’ll link the blog, but I believe Jennings rejects LGT in an imposed law view but instead believes that people will eventually become either sheep or goats in the last days through their own free will and understanding of God’s character. This is why the conversation we saw here often seems to be on two different planes - Adventist church politics/identity vs the greater universal conflict that involves everyone, Adventist or not. comeandreason.com/last-generation-theology/
@@ryandieter9245don't you get it ??he's a humanist!!! that's not Christianity! SDA does not have the Jesus of the Bible! and they never have had.! They say the second Goat to Leviticus 16:10( is the devil )((((which is Jesus Christ at the cross)!!! 1 Peter 2: 24 ..(they have no atonement)!!!!!! they have no salvation. In other words they say it's not completed at the cross!
I love timothy jennings. Lots of great teachings. Adventism isnt divided into two. Its divided into over 20 sects. Over 20. No one but God know the amount of sects.
All your theology of salvation has to be filtered through the thief on the cross. He had no character development. He didn't reach a plane of morality. He didn't clean up his life. He only asked to be remembered.
The thief along with many other people will be saved who were and are at different levels of moral development, but when Jesus returns there will be a group of people who are willing to give up their lives for others and who have had the law of love written on their hearts, John 15:13 and Revelation 12:11, along with understanding the origin of evil and nature of sin, God's character of love, the purpose of the Cross and how God's Design laws including the moral law actually work, among other things. I want to be part of that group of people.
@@nonconformist4802 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
In slang, a troll is a person who posts or makes inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages online or in real life, with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception, thus acting as a bully or a provocateur. Wikipedia
The Bible leaves no doubt on what activities are to done on the Sabbath Day read Isa 58 :12-14 EGW has said God is not waiting to punish the sinner. The sinner brings punishment upon himself . God always allows us to make choices. He never condemns any one He sent Jesus to save us from sin Read John 3: 17 -19. God is not happy about anyone perishing but that all should come to repentance At He judment we only have ourselves to blame for our eternal destiny.
I'm thankful for being saved --- not adventist, not protestant, not catholic, not church of christ, not presbyterian, not baptist --- just saved by the shed blood and FINISHED work Jesus accomplished for salvation 😅
@@russellbantin8468 Our Saviour God said " IT IS FINISHED" when HE accomplished salvation. Our LORD Jesus Christ paid it ALL. He satisfied God's wrath against our sin
@@Over-for-now YOu have used a lot of loaded words that can have many meanings depending on your perspective of how God works. How did He accomplish our salvation? What did He pay and to whom? How do you define God's wrath? What is sin? I believe if you were to watch the entirety of this video, you would see that there are different ways of defining what Jesus did and why. It would be a great discussion.
When I was an Adventist, I did NOT experience Adventism teaching a tyrannical God. In fact, the opposite. I was raised in Adventism in Texas during the 1970s with SDA evangelists Glenn Coon and Steve Marshall and David Meeker giving this absolutely wonderful view of God and heaven. We elementary-aged SDA kids experienced a profound revival--and many would call it a SDA reformation that the older SDAs considered a falling away from conservative, traditional Adventism. I absolutely found a kind and loving God when in the Adventist culture I grew up in. Therefore, there is really nothing Dr. Jennings is saying that is remotely like my experience either within Adventism nor Catholicism. From the intense, yet sorrowful, looks on your faces, it seems like what he is saying doesn't really reverberate with you guys either.
Hey SDA members--I know you are disappointed and/or embarrassed by SDA nonsense associated with leaders and pastors. I get it. I've been going to church for 70 years. SDA Dan & Revelation seminars are basically religious BAIT & SWITCH programs to get people to join SDA Laodiceans and after they are in church they are criticized, by inept, poorly trained SDA pastors, for being tithe robbing, sabbath slacking, love-lacking, lazy, lousy lukewarm Laodicean LOSERS! Then after they have been berated, they are told to "finish the work" and tell everyone the "3 angels messages" to scare them with mark of the beast, Sunday law, close of probation, time of trouble, death decree and last plagues. Soooo do you really care if the SDA denomination CRASHES & BURNS??? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?? HUH?? Reply to this and I can teach you how to make a positive difference in this world & really be SALT & LIGHT...and have a real purpose for your life!!
What does scripture say in response to your question? Read Genesis 19 and 1 Samuel 15. I believe God is love as it says in 1 John 4:7-21 Maybe we need to step back and ask, "How is God being loving in these instances?" Am I to judge God? Am I, am human more just than God am I more loving than God? Do I really even understand the essence of Love and Justice? If you believe that the word of God is true and expresses the truth of what He commands his people to do and has done Himself, you must wrestle with these realities. Be careful though to jump to judging God when it is by His love and grace that He takes away all the sins of the world through the lamb of God, Jesus Christ. God takes responsibility for Sin on the cross in Christ and thus He is fully capable of judging the world as well.@@hipernessa
@@Lightbringer012 I think you may have misunderstood @hipernessa friend. It was an honest question to assertion your position on the issue dr Jennings was discussing. Which is about scripture being misrepresented to teach that God is the one who inflicts death and suffering when the Bible teaches God is love and is not the source of death and suffering. Please consider the context in 1sam 15. 1-They were not being punished for sin since the punishment for sin is eternal death and no-one experiences that punishment until judgement day/lake of fire. Also remember that they sleep until the resurrection... they did not die. 2- The reason God ordered their destruction was because they were going to destroy the Hebrews thus preventing the royal line to Messiah. Messiah had to be born or all is lost. 3-It was the Hebrews decision to fight the amalekites. God said not to fight them, He told them He would send in the hornet and they could take the land peacefully, but the Hebrews chose to disobey. So in order to have future peace, God said to put them all to sleep because if you leaves a few alive then they will gather up forces again and attack you again. (Which we see happening today) 4- bear in mind the Hebrew mindset of being very rebellious and stubborn. Like a good parent, God uses the right language to keep His children safe. Think of how a parent will raise their voice and use strong language to prevent a child from running across the busy road...it's for protection. In summary, All God's actions are for love and protection and never takes away anyone's freedom. Sin is a terminal condition which God has provided a remedy for which is Christ on the cross.
How do you understand by law? What understand Adventist Church o Catholics church the law? Both understand that it is a list of codes given from a God and He ask obedience. If you don’t obey, you offend god. You got legal problem. It is not true, you have spiritual problems.
I disagree with Dr Jennings about the denomination today adopting that the law is the ceremonial law. The law in Galatians is all law - both the moral / ten commandments and the ceremonial law. It sounds to me like can't take council from leaders in the church. The shift in our denomination took place when pastors like Morris Vendon began preaching righteousness by faith. I have read much of Dr Jennings book but I am disappointed to hear about his issues with leaders of the church.
Not quite sure what you mean but in defence of dr Jennings he teaches that the Hebrews were under threat of extermination from surrounding nations so God gave them rules to enable their survival in order for Messiah to be born of the royal line. Once Messiah was born it wasn't imperative to follow those rules. Hope I'm not off track with your statement. Cheers
@@JenniferPatterson-r9x How do you apply blood (a physical entity, a liquid tissue composed of multitudes of cell types and proteins) to a non-physical entity, the sins of the world? Is it applied with cheesecloth? Or with a toothbrush perhaps? How much blood is needed, given that the average volume in one adult male body is ~5 liters? Does every sin receive just one red cell so that there is enough to go around? It is Obviously a metaphor. To take it literally and thus to fail to ask for the meaning of the metaphor is to fail to take the Bible seriously.
What is the benefit of knowing that God is not a being whose physical form is either a trinity or a single being, if we still don't understand the true character of God? There is no point in knowing that the Creator is not a trinity, if we are still confused about God's Character. There is no point in knowing the Creator is not a trinity, if we still believe the One True God has the “blended” character of the trinity god. It is by beholding we become changed. The character that we suppose belongs to our God, will be reproduced in us. We had better be sure we know just what God's Character is like for that character will be our character as time progresses.
Not sure what this person is talking about. I have been adventist for years and have not heard of such teaching. Yes there are differences in the church like any other church but the teaching is always according to scripture. We are to be careful that we don't complicate the message of salvation resulting in confusion for those seeking the truth. Jesus is our example, His life and teaching draw people to Him. We may have all the knowledge debating how things should or shouldn't be, but if people don't see Jesus in us then something is very wrong with us.
I don't think anything he said contradicts that people should see Jesus in us, and I don't think he is complicating the message of salvation. He is just saying that people should know what salvation actually means, and where it comes from. Many Christians present God as an arbitrary dictator instead of the healing savior that He is. If someone thinks that sharing the truth about God's character is complicating the message of salvation, then their view of salvation isn't based in reality. Jesus showed the character of God perfectly. If we want people to see Jesus in us, we should want to understand and be transformed into that same character.
@feagainiumata. The church leadership is teaching that God punishes those who have rejected salvation in the lake of fire. Salvation in the Greek is sodso, it's where we get the words salve, (eye salve) it means to heal, restore (salvage) It doesnt have any legal meaning yet church leadership is telling us that salvation means that God has made a legal declaration that He won't kill us. The legal model of salvation is complicated and there isn't any scripture to support the idea of God making legal declarations. Bible teaches that sin is a terminal condition which results in death unless one accepts and partakes of the remedy (Christ on the cross) so there's no need for God to punish since sin causes punishment and death. Jam 1:5. Gal 6:8. This is what scripture teaches and what our founders and early church taught.
But Tim, there is a punishment, right? Luke 12:48 (KJV) But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. The wicked are punished “according to their deeds.” Satan is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. In the flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch-Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met. Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his temptations. . GrH_c 53.5
55:00 That's amusing--no insult intended at all. The Catholics are always told they took so much "traditions" of the Jews by Protestants. In fact, if you read the Early Church Fathers, you will find that Catholic doctrine has enormous fidelity to the Old Covenant for His people--Israel. We just see much of the Old Covenant fulfilled in Christ and obey the NEW covenant law instigated by Christ on the Mount of Olives. Nothing changed by Catholics, but changed by Christ and the Apostles. You will see that quite clearly in scripture backed up by the writings of those 2nd generation Christians who were taught by the Apostles.
The great controversy, and the investigative judgment are not biblical. It makes me very sad that Dr. Jennings combines these Adventist doctrines with the gospel in this interview. My prayer for every Christian, including myself is that we will know the truth and the truth will set us free!
The Bible is full of the great controversy theme, a cosmic conflict and Revelation refers to a war up in heaven. A war over the character and government of God. Rev 12:7: "There was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought using truth and love against the lies and deceptions of the dragon, but the dragon and his angels fought back against the truth, spreading more lies about God and Jesus, his Son."
I don't care how many millions of denominations there are. Jesus receives ALL the GLORY and the ONLY WAY God WiLL accept for entrance into heaven is the FINISHED work of HIS SON. FORGET denominations !!!!
I've arrived on this channel as a result of someone on another channel suggesting this brother's name. I've listened to the prologue, hoping to hear some ground breaking new ways of thinking or even deeper way of analysing scripture. I must say that i'm disappointed. My disappointment i based on the man's point of argument. Instead of comparing the ways, his way and the other that he disputes, he goes on a sudden attack, the attack is not that complex, it is like a boxer who thinks that the volume of punches they throw wins the contest. I call it a contest now because he highlights two systems here; his 'reasoning' and the other side's 'conformity' as he implies. My argument is this; 1. When he talks about the blood of Jesus being a metaphor and goes on to give a weak example of his patients application...what does he mean? -A metaphor is a figure of speech that implicitly compares two unrelated things, typically by stating that one thing is another (e.g., “that chef is a magician”). Metaphors can be used to create vivid imagery, exaggerate a characteristic or action, or express a complex idea. Jesus blood in the context for which it is used in the bible, is it not literal and symbolic depending on the context? In Heb 9:22, the word of God tells us that there's no remission of sin except by the shedding of blood. The sacrificial system pointed to Jesus, who would be crucified for the sins of the whole world. where is the metaphor here? Symbolically we partake of the grape Juice and unleavened bread as a way of remembering Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross. 2. The Dr implies that what he experienced growing up was a system of do's and don'ts and goes on to give another weak example as not being able to go swimming...and i would add, gyming, going for a run or a jog, playing some soft badminton et cetera...what's wrong with that? -When we read about God's dealings with the Israelites when they left the land of slavery both physical and can i say spiritual...God gave them a set of rules. This rules and commandments were meant for redemption and to prepare them to dwell with a Holy God. Deutronomy 28...Blessings and Curses...if you do this, if you live like this..then you get the blessings or you condemn yourself! Isn't that the whole reason for Jesus dying on the cross...John 3:16 for God so loved the world...He did not send Jesus to condemn...but that he who believes in him (dos) might be saved...he that believes in Him (do) is not condemned...he that does not (don'ts) is condemned...by the fact that he does not do....so, there you go, do's and don'ts...bad or good? be the judge. -Regarding the other thing he said/mentioned i.e swimming. Nothing wrong with swimming at all. But the question is this, God has given us 6 days for ourselves, He's set one for Himself for a Holy convocation. And He says blessed is he that calls the sabbath a delight, does not pursue his pleasures on that day...Now, exercising is not eating or drinking, it's my own personal works, which i have six days to do, how is it not pursuing it on a sabbath legalism? 3. He touches on the law and implies that the Adventists teach from a perspective of the Roman church which implies that God has set the law as an obstacle or a to an extent a trap and a kill-joy. I refute that argument. The bible says that law is good, holy and just Romans 7:12. In fact it's called the law of Liberty, James 2:12, for when you fulfil the requirements of the law...you lead a peaceful life..for you will not steal, murder, kill, testify falsely...you have a sound sleep at night and walk the earth without fear of being arrested or attacked for infringement on other's rights. Israel was constantly held captive, not by being circumspective regarding the law..but by constantly breaking it...by worship of idols and injustices towards one another...the turning away from true God to worship idols ushered the second infringement towards one another. Is not the law that defines what sin is, is not the transgression of this very law that caused satan to be thrown out of heaven, Adam out of the garden and the ushering of death and suffering that the world has ever been experiencing?... I have not suffered to listen to the whole conversation as i can't spend more than 1.5 hrs listening to a waffle...probably he's used scriptures afterwards...but the lack of scripture and comparing this scripture with the other has put me off.
4th generation SDA here. Absolutely love the message of Come and Reason ministry. Thank you for having Dr. Jennings and sharing this amazing end time message!
You are not a Christian
The Sabbath keepers are obsessed with the mission to bring all of Christianity and the entire world Under the *"ministration of DEATH and CONDEMNATION WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES"* 2Cor. 3:7-9 and *the letter that "killeth"* (vs.6) of *the law engraved in the tablets of stone!* ( *2 Cor. 3:7* ), called the *"Ministration of DEATH"* , and the *"Ministration of condemnation"* VS 8-9 and use Christ's name to do it! 2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord IS THAT Spirit: and where the *Spirit of the Lord is, there is LIBERTY.* *Love is the fulfilling of the law, my friend.
*The Apostle Paul condemns the Judaziers saying. Phil **3:18** *"For many walk, of whom I have TOLD YOU OFTEN, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIES of the cross of Christ:"*
Paul's Epistle to the Church of Rome: Romans 7:6 • *But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held* ; that we should serve in *newness of spirit, and NOT in the oldness of the letter.*
Indeed, the 10 commandments are the ministration of DEATH and CONDEMNATION, engraved in STONE. Once you get that, you will before forced to come to Christ for mercy and forgiveness.
The very fact that 2Cor.3:6-9 calls *the 10 commandments the MINISTRATION OF DEATH AND CONDEMNATION ENGRAVED IN STONE proves Col. **2:16** means the weekly Sabbath.* You all do the same thing with Eph. 2:15! But, you all will lie and deceive to do anything to keep your followers at the expense of going to hell in the process.
*But, beware, if you return to the LAW OF THE ministration of death and condemnation, *there will be no more sacrifice for you, because you have done despite to the Spirit of Grace and trodden underfoot the blood of Christ by whom you were ONCE sanctified (Heb.10:28)
You family is in eternal hell fire. Repent of your self righteousness and rebellion and Jesus and his gospel message.
The absolute best. Bring Tim back for more.
I am a member of Dr. Jennings SS class. I have been an Adventist my whole life, raised in a very conservative family. Since going to his class he has opened my eyes to be able to discern the biblical truth about God. He has a way of explaining the Bible that is so simple and yet more meaningful. I love his ministry.
Hey SDA members--I know you are disappointed and/or embarrassed by SDA nonsense associated with leaders and pastors. I get it. I've been going to church for 70 years. SDA Dan & Revelation seminars are basically religious BAIT & SWITCH programs to get people to join SDA Laodiceans and after they are in church they are criticized, by inept, poorly trained SDA pastors, for being tithe robbing, sabbath slacking, love-lacking, lazy, lousy lukewarm Laodicean LOSERS! Then after they have been berated, they are told to "finish the work" and tell everyone the "3 angels messages" to scare them with mark of the beast, Sunday law, close of probation, time of trouble, death decree and last plagues. Soooo do you really care if the SDA denomination CRASHES & BURNS??? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?? HUH?? Reply to this and I can teach you how to make a positive difference in this world & really be SALT & LIGHT...and have a real purpose for your life!!
I'll bet He can't explain who Jesus is. Because of he is an SDA person ..he doesn't have the real Jesus! It's impossible! He's got a degree in absolutely nothing !
@@JamieElison So who is YOUR Jesus?
@@JamieElison Describe the real JESUS.
He has one of the clearest pictures of who Jesus is that's for sure
Jennings is right on, an antidote to legalism.
That was AWESOME! Please have him back on!
That has got to be the clearest presentation I have ever heard in my life on being a Christian as an Adventist and one who has been apart of another denomination that is the clearest I have ever heard please have him back on we all need more clarity especially in the times we are living God bless you
Since 2009, I have always appreciated Dr. Jenning's approach of seeking to understand before being understood. As a lifelong Adventist, it can be a bit jarring to have yet another "expert" challenge your childhood faith. Yet Tim has truly examined the assumptions of Christianity fairly, with a balanced approach of weighing evidences first before providing his considerable insight, experience, and God-given wisdom to the discussion. Dr. Jennings has personally caused my lifelong faith to grow and mature in countless ways that I will remain ever thankful for. May God continue to bless Tim and the outreach of Come and Reason Ministries.
Really enjoyed this presentation. Tim Jennings has such clarity into the real issues surrounding us, and presents the best picture of the character of God that I've heard. I am a 4th generation Adventist and my faith has grown and matured so much through the past couple of decades, much of that growth due to the insights and teaching of Dr. Jennings.
Very thought provoking. I hope Tim is brought on again for further interviews and to share insights. I thought the panel did well in getting some answers but it begs for more!!
His ss class and website answer all the questions. Vital to our understanding of God’s Character. Wonderful news there. I praise The Lord for Tim.
Thank you for interviewing Dr. Jennings! Been listening to his Bible study and reading his materials for 5 years now. Such a blessing to our family!!!
And you still don't have salvation. An the real Jesus of Hebrews 7!
@@JamieElisonLMAO and you have Jesus in you with this type of comment?? lol you’re far from Christ like buddy, good on you 👍😂
Whoa!!!! All of this but....that CVD statement!!!....World implications... 100% Do bring him back. Very thought provoking.
Right? So good
I'm excited to attend Dr. Jennings weekly online SS class. The truth about the loving character of God he presents resonates with me and has changed my relationship with God and others! I was a 3rd Gen SDA and a graduate of their educational system. I left the church 30 years ago b/c I never bought into the Corporate penal view of God culture taught at every level of the global organization. I encourage others to come and see what a loving God view will do to heal you!
Yes!
I left the church at the age of 15 and was gone for more than 20 years and was never coming back because of this very same harsh, legalistic view of God. I attended Sunday churches and learned more about the love of God, righteousness and my identity in Christ than all the years in any SDA church. All I learned in the SDA were rules, performance based Christianity, loyalty to an organisation, keeping, status quo and keeping the Sabbath out of fear that if you break it God will get you.
For a seeker of truth and someone who desires intimacy with Jesus this experience was woefully lacking. God brought me back in 2017 after much resistance on my part but now I know he wants me to bring this same truth and live as a living example to those still trapped in the organisation and in need of a real understanding of the true nature and character of God.
This is my first time listening to Time and it's what I have been asking God for. Thank God for the insights of Dr. Jennings and his willingness to allow Holy Spirit to guide him.
Thank you for featuring Doctor Jennings on your program. I am a third-generation Seventh-day Adventist, baptized in 1972. Reading my Scriptures I was experiencing some cognitive dissonance because what I was reading was not in harmony with what I had always been taught and always believed, specifically the Adventist doctrine on the Heavenly Sanctuary. Until I somehow came across Doctor Jennings' teaching on the Heavenly Sanctuary, I was unable to resolve the dissonance. But now everything beautifully falls into place and makes perfect sense. Thanks again for featuring Doctor Jennings. I'm certain that it required intestinal fortitude on your part.
I have never been so encouraged to stand only on God🙏Thankyou Tim 🙏🤗
Loved what he had to say about COVID. Couldn't agree more!
Yes this is 100 percent truth...
After reading and listening to many of Dr Jennings teachings and following the weekly lesson studies it has being transformative in developing a renewed relationship with Christ. Being a lifelong SDA and fully indoctrined in the penal- legal view of God , I now am experiencing a rebirth of my trust in the God of the Bible. I'm fully persuaded that developing the character of Christ is more important than ever. It's almost feel like I'm seeing God for the first time as my confidant and friend rather than the harsh judge I was afraid of.
Blessing to Dr Jennings and the Come and Reason ministry
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Love this picture of God, the last message to the world a revelation of God's character and a proper understanding of His law as the principle of how life was meant to operate
Thank you for all that you are doing to bring different perspectives to Seeking What They Sought.. I enjoyed listening to Dr. Jennings. He presented so many things to chew on and bring to God in prayer. His explanations just seemed to make so much more sense. For example, the explanation of The Ransom. Fascinating. I hope you bring him back for more discussion.
This was really insightful and thought provoking.
I have been listening to Dr. Jennings since 2018 and I have never stopped. He’s a wonderful teacher and my relationship with God has never been so great.
I love this guy! I first seen Tim Jennings on a DVD someone lent me "The God Shaped Brain" and as a new convert, it really helped me to understand the two different groups of Adventists in my own church. I almost left because of the legalists, until Tim explained it so well. Since then, whenever it's my turn to share, whether through prayer group, Sabbath school, or on the rare occasion preaching, I always present the message through the lens of Design law. In fact whenever I have to lead out in Sabbath school, I always check out Tim's view of the message first, just in case I've missed something.
*The best way to evangelise the church with the true message is from within*
Very true. I had a very traditionalist Adventist during our Sabbath School start yelling, “God's judgment starts at the house of God!”
He began yelling this over and over again. Was very ardent in being very strict in health reform and the traditional view of the Adventist view of the three angels' messages.
Was wanting to have a "word" with me after the Sabbath School Lesson. Sad, sad! 😢
@@caleschnell Yes judgement does begin with the house of God, and God's judgement is in favour with His saints
I had a death experience. The God of love and light I met is not the romanized God I had been taught as a called out one who accepts His love. Thanks law of love is what changed me, saved me at my most broken. Religion saves no one. I appreciate Dr Jennings very much.
Having been raised an SDA and attending 15 years of SDA schools, we were not taught to ask why? The Bible says it, believe it! What a great message to Come And Reason together! Ask the questions, be convinced in your own mind. If the SDA schools were to teach this, the true character of God would be so much clearer! And many of the youth would still be with the church.
MERCY!!!!! So much to digest here!
Tim is on point
Hey guys firstly I want to thank you for setting up this platform to ask the question, “What is an Adventist?”
I was born and raised as a practising Catholic. Later converting into the SDA church in Australia as a seeking the truth, adult. So hearing Dr Tim Jennings his view on being an Adventist and highlighting how the SDA church is practising similar to having the mindset and indoctrination of a Catholic! It took me 4yrs of listening to Dr Jennings Bible SS lessons via TH-cam, just ask God to help me see what that looks like in my life. I am still on that journey of seeing the fruits of the Spirit working in me to live His Creative Law functionally in my life. Bottom line - Levels of Spiritual Maturity will take diligence in seeking Him and His truth will set you free from the Imperial Law constructs in one’s life, to being Holy Spirit led. May the good Lord of the harvest work in and through you as inidividuals to do a good work collectively. God bless my brothers in Christ ❤
What an excellent discussion! And however you come away from this conversation, one this is for sure, "God is not the executioner in the end--its sin--the distortions and lies we believe that keep us hostage and way from truly knowing and being healed (restored) by God. Thus our church (The Seventh-day Adventist Church) has missed the 1844 and 1888 marks, thus joining itself to this day with the world's beastly pagan system.
"Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward. But in the period of doubt and uncertainty that followed the disappointment, many of the advent believers yielded their faith.... Thus the work was hindered, and the world was left in darkness. HAD THE WHOLE ADVENTIST BODY UNITED UPON THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS, how widely different would have been our history!"
We are not united on God's Commandments nor the faith of Jesus. Our church has accepted a legal-penal view of God's Law--which distorts God's character. May God reach all who are in the SDA Church with His Love, Truth and Freedom.
We could be united if you just give up your view of the atonement. After all that's what you're asking us to do.
@@JenniferPatterson-r9x If one were to give up a penal, legal view of God, understand the nature of Sin, the GC, God's plan to heal, etc, and view God's Law as built into the very fabric of reality--not a mere list of rules, there would be no need to ask---it would be obvious!
Yes, i totally agree with Dr Jennings. I don't want to say to people that I am an Adventist not only because their perceptions of an Adventist but because most of them in my church are hypocrites and show no sign of compassion to needy people other than saying they will pray for them or only do it openly when their acts of kindness can be publicly seen. we are not what we claim we are but how we love one another. Thank God for Dr Jennings to speak out and draw the lights for many Christians living in fantasy under the veils cast by the church leaders.
As soon as he gets the real Jesus!( of Hebrews 7) he will be saved! and then his words will matter!
@@JamieElison Thank you
Were you a former sda? I find their religion the MOST satanic because they can sound good but THAT poison is in that mix and will DESTROY you. The deception is. ABSOLUTELY deadly
💙🙏👼*MAY OUR BELOVED CREATOR GOD BLESS DOCTOR TIM JENNINGS RICHLY & MORE ABUNDANTLY..WE WE'RE SO BLESSED,THANK YOU FOR YOUR VERY FAITHFUL DEVOTED UNTIRING,**COME & REASON MINISTRIES**.TO OUR HEAVENLY FATHER ALONE BE ALL THE HIGHEST HONOR, GLORY & PRAISE!* *AMEN*MARANATHA*👼🙏💙
Amazing, we shipped not only Ellen White to Australia, but prayer, fasting, and all the things that can really bring us together to Christ and know His true Character.
It’s overwhelmingly painful to be part of a SDA church, to see Pastors and people in most of the congregations today, completely oblivious of the real war that is going on just before our eyes.
The only reason I keep my faith is that through the works of Ellen White, she says that God will do with this church, because there is no more time to create another one.
So we must keep the faith, praying, fasting, spreading His word, exercising our Christianity and watching for the signs.
God is in control, and the remanescente os His people are waiting faithfully for His command. 🙏🏽
Yeah but Ellen White says you're Jesus is the devil..( in the investigative judgment). You're living in deception, and you think you're not!
Doctor Timothy Jennings is speaking from the heart and he is right on point with how people need to start looking at God in the fullness of his glory that he is. Instead of us having an idea based on a society that is only an idea that comes from satanic ideas and is based on a Roman Catholic Papal system philosophy and theology.
Wow, couldn't have said it better myself.
1:11 finally got to his answer my below question. I seriously HAD that taught to me as an Adventist AND a Catholic. God is not a wrathful judge but a loving Father whose laws are to prevent and cure sin. I don't know of anyone but Calvinists who have that view of a Sovereign God whose connection to justice is based on wrath.
Thank You Dr. Jennings. We are told in the SOP the character of God is the glory of God. Reflecting His character is how we glorify Him and that requires knowing Him and obeying Him from love.
I met Dr Jennings in the GC meetings in San Antonio in 2015. We visited his booth and receive books that really enjoyed reading. When I saw his Sabbath school class I listened every week. Yes he truly makes the lessons clear. Thanks a lot to him. He is being used by God.
Sheer brilliance. Have him back.
Appreciated this greatly.
And thank you for the comments about the covid travesty. And the unfortunate loss of life and the gross fear that was projected. God bless each one.
Love Come and Reason. It has brought me so much closer to God. It has opened up my understanding to so many bibical subjects and I no longer wonder if I'm good enough or doing enough.
Thank you for allowing a fresh view of Christianity (the most plausible to me thus far) and what it means to be a christian. I would like to hear other invitees respond to the multiple issues raised by Dr. Jennings in regards to the fundamental beliefs thought in the Adventist Church. TY and looking forward.
I am deeply grateful for Dr Jennings perspective. It has made so much sense and been so wonderful during an thru Covid to hear truth spoken. He has blessed our lives
This is soooo good - may it enjoy a Very wide audience! 🕊️🙏🏼
I listen to Come and Reason Sabbath School lessons each week. I discovered the channel during COVID lockdown when churches were closed. Each day I would listen to a different Adventist TH-cam presentation on the current lesson. The difference in how God's law is seen comes through pretty clearly in the different presentations.
This prompted me to look for more information on how to understand the Bible better, and TH-cam algorithms offered me A picture of God in All 66 Books by Graham Maxwell. I am going through these discussions/presentations for the second time now. The understanding of Dr Jennings and Graham Maxwell are remarkably similar, so this view is nothing new. It is just that Satan tries incessantly to prevent the message from reaching the people who really need to hear it. God is not the kind of Person Satan has made Him out to be. He is not the source of inflicted pain, punishment and death. He is the Great Physician who offers to heal us if we are willing to listen, and to work with the Holy Spirit in the restoration process.
❤ Dr. Maxwell ❤️
Doctor Dr miles is a humanist Jesus Christ of Hebrews 7. is the real Jesus .not the one from 1844!
Thank you for 😊this presentation. I am getting many questions answered. Jesus taught matters of the heart. I am so encouraged
STUNNING!!
Thank you so much, Timothy Jennings! I need to learn more. ♡
I felt some confusion the first time I heard it. However, it started to answer me my old deep questions that I felt fear to ask because I love my church.
Great to see Dr Jennings. Have his wonderful book, could it be this simple
Gosh! This was FANTASTIC! I regularly watch the Come and Reason SS Lessons because I resonate with the take notes from what is taught and discussed. I think that I will now look at the website (& possibly buy The Remedy paraphrased bible too).
I really do hope that you have a further discussion with Dr Jennings (perhaps more than 1), because I’d be really keen to hear a discussion between him and Myles Christian. That would be so enlightening I think.
Again, another interesting discussion. I truly appreciate this platform. Thank you.
I have known Tim for almost 40 years. We are not personal friends but I have known him since he was at Southern College(SMC). Tim is extremely bright with a very high I.Q. He ALSO has a very large ego. He has brought many wonderful truths to people both SDA and non SDA. I’m not sure he considers himself a practicing SDA as he hasn’t been part of an Adventist church for years. When I challenged him on this he deflected and became very defensive. Again, I am grateful to Tim for the light he has shone on the gospel. I would remind your listeners here who admire Dr. Jennings to keep your eyes fixed on Jesus. Test the spirits and cling to what is good. Don’t follow a man or a man’s teachings. This is natural with us. We must rise above that weakness and keep our gaze fixed on Jesus. In time, Tim may prove to be a stumbling block for many. Don’t let that happen. Jesus first, last and always. 🙏🏻
Tim always says, "don't believe it just because I say something. Study it for yourself". In fact at about 1:20:00 he covers this very thing. This is what I have done when I have disagreed with him and most of the time I come to see that he is correct. I've been very blessed by his ministry and his thoughts on God's law and character. I believe he is more of a practicing SDA than most SDA's that attend a church building each week. Tim's ministry reaches more people than most SDA churches and He does have fellowship with other SDA individuals at His place of ministry each Sabbath. I see it as similar to some of the home churches of the early church. Yes, let's keep our eyes on Jesus! I don't follow any man or woman but if their teaching points me to a better view of God which then leads me to study more and follow God with all my heart then I think that is a positive ministry no matter what their personality might be like. I love studying God's word and SOP more than ever before. I can hardly wait to be with Him.
I appreciate Dr Jennings’ appeal to higher moral reasoning as well as his critique of church admins as often focusing on policy and rule-following.
On the other hand, I think his view of second temple Judaism (not to mention the “Constantinian Shift”) is woefully behind the times. The factional dynamics of Jesus’ day cannot be reduced to Jesus’ moral maturity vs Pharisaical “legalism.”
I beg to differ. Most of Christianity is tied down by ritual and seeing metaphor as reality rather tying metaphor to its reality.
Highly recommended downloading come and reason ministry app!
I've been an Adventist my whole life. I read the Bible. I read EGW Conflict of the Ages Series more than once. I study the Sabbath school lessons.
I had some ideas about this in high school decades ago.
Jennings is absolutely right.
Excellent! Love Come and Reason!
Would you guys interview Dr Jon Paulien, please?
Min 1;30 - 1;33 totally agree. There was such an opportunity to shine, but we bowed, like the multitude in the plain of Dura.
Yep.
I think it would be good for every seminary professor and student along with every pastor and those who are employed by the church organization to read chapter 4 of Councils to Writers and Editors from EGW.
I suggest you read the Bible and quit following a false prophet! Ultimately you're going to get the real Jesus.. rather than the levite Jesus of 1844!
@@JamieElison You must not have read what I suggested because it says if we study our Bible's we will receive more and more light. She says that just because you have believed a teaching for many years it doesn't make it infallible. She always directed people to the Bible and said if people really studied their Bible as they should they would not need her messages.
@@JamieElison You may consider her to be a false prophet but outside of the Bible I've not read anything that has drawn me closer to Jesus than Steps to Christ, Desire of Ages, Thoughts from the Mount of Blessings and Christ Object Lessons.
When people hold on to penal legal, it is so sad. Because we remain so cruel to each other while professing righteousness. Especially, pastors who are not connected to God but given power over God's people. Some (not all) just use this power to abuse people.
I'm really longing for people to come to know the true God and truly learn to love each other.
The Tim Jennings interview was very engaging but the Ted Wilson interview seemed like the interviewers were intimidated with asking deep, probing questions that would challenge Ted Wilson
Interesting Interview!
I was saved by page three of desire of ages, then read it five times.
Yeah but who is your Jesus. The 1844 Jesus (created )by the false prophet Ellen? or the Jesus of Hebrews 7?
Thank you for a frank discussion
Very enlightening! Thanks for this episode...
Podcastttt liiittt 🔥🔥 this was lit
I praise the Lord because He is bringing back the message of 1888 ; and if the GC had not rejected it they would bring the Character of God message that Jennings , dr Elliot Dougling from Barbados, Dennis Priebe , I read the book of F. T Wright God’s Sabbath Rest very good. By the way dr Dougling. and F T Wright was disfellowshipped from the church. He would be great if you can interview him. Thanks for bringing T Jennings.
I have been an Adventist now for almost 3 years. Baptized and I believe the Lord opened my eyes to this .... That all of the churches that changed their emblems from the three angel's message over to the six flames, a book and an upside down cross, Well that's what it looks like to me, well they all teach the same categories in sabbath school and the sermons every sabbath..... I believe they're going by what the general conference want them to Teach, Compared to the Adventist churches that has the 3 angels going around the globe emblem, They teach differently they do not teach what the general conference wants them to teach, They are teaching and preparing the flock according to the Bible, and what's happening around the world.... The church's that has the 3 angels message emblem is showing real things that's happening in the entire world, in the news that is going along with what Jesus said was going to happen..... But the churches that has the six Flames emblem they teach what the general conference want them to teach..... There is a big difference within the church that I have noticed already .
There's no globe in the Bible neither did the founders teach the globe doctrine. It's a circle (circuit) not a globe. Isaiah 40:20 states circle of the earth. Circle is 2 dimensional. The Earth is observably, measurably and navigated flat and stationary with a firmament above us.(in Hebrew raka meaning firm and solid.
@@kickhisassseabass318an aliens live on the bottom side that's were there hiding.😮 My friend helped build the Hubble telescope he'll tell you you don't know what you're doing!
How do you get from 457 B.C. in the spring of the year ,,to the fall of 1844 with 2300?
@@JamieElison1844 + 457 = 2300.. there is no zero year.
@candace is it really angels going around a globe? There's no globe in the Bible and the early Adventists were mostly flat earth. Isaiah mentions circle of the earth but circle is flat not spherical so maybe the image of the angels is going around circle of earth not globe
Estoy sorprendido. El Dr. Me ha dejado shocked. Especialmente, ha demostrado la incoherencia de la doctrina de la expiación.
I am an African Adventist Baha’i. The Adventist side of me is that I am a vegetarian. The Baha’i in me is that I love people of ALL religions, including SDA.
Agree , but there are two ditches, one on each side of the road. We must be careful not to fall into either one.
If you believe God Kills and destroys, We have the wrong image of God.wrong character. We deny to give Glory to His NAME.
I wasn't taught that God kills and destroys in Adventism or Catholicism. If you mean that in the Judgement (final), well I don't remember that any of my SDA pastors or teachers really dealt with that at all. In fact I was taught that when an Adventist dies, if he/she didn't die in the Lord, they simply ceased to exist. So there was no wrath of God or punishment.
Catholicism teaches that those who choose hate, instead of love, and persist in doing so without repentance, have CHOSEN not to enter eternity with God. Choosing "hell" (whatever that means--the Catholic Catechism tells us that the MAIN thing we experience in hell is separation from God), is our voluntary, and final choice. Hell doesn't surprise anyone and those in hell would choose it again because love is so repugnant to them that they would PREFER hell over being obedient to God in his kingdom. So I have never, ever been taught a God who kills and destroys from the religions I've been a member of.
Amen💚
What a tangled web we weave. when we don't rightly divide scripture and we TRY in our intellect to figure out God's WAY. This man is just adjusting mrs white to fit his narrative of God's character
Explain
@@americanswan l love testimonials of those who have been delivered from any cult. Jesus is absolutely the ONLY WAY and HE FINISHED the work for salvation. We must rest in him COMPLETE
@@Over-for-now did you even watch the video?
"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:" Revelation 6:16
I believe Dr. Jennings is wrong on one point ... there are now 28 Fundamentals not 27. Other than that, thank you for an amazing interview. God bless "Come and Reason Ministries" and "Seeking What They Sought". Keep up the good work.
To clarify what was said, I was quoting out of the book titled The 27 Fundamental Beliefs, not asserting that there are today only 27 Fundamental Beliefs.
@@timjennings8179 No worries, all good. Thank you for clarifying and for making a lot of sense out of the nonsense. I am already subscribed to the "Come and Reason Ministries" channel on TH-cam and look forward to the follow up interview with "Seeking What They Sought".
@@timjennings8179how do you get from 457 B.C in the spring of the year.. to the fall of 1844 to create the cult of SDA in the first place?? is she a true prophet?
@@timjennings8179 what do you say regarding this statement? Are these particular things stated here, true? Thank you!
“Ask yourself why Jennings teaches a SS class he does not believe in. I had a very good friend send me the videos to watch.
5 mins in I knew something was off.
Jennings is crafty. He seeks to confuse by quoting Ellen White when in reality, he does not believe her. Read his paper on his website on Justification and then read what sister White taught in Faith and Works. Ask why Jennings seeks to redefine Justification using his own words vs scripture and sister White. He uses NIV a lot which is a paraphrase. He states he likes the overall meaning better than a word for word translation. In fact he wrote his own paraphrase which he pushes all the time. We need to study scripture with the Hebrew and Greek direct word for word interpretation in hand. It really is amazing how much it comes alive when we do!! Jennings does not believe in the pre advent judgement. He tears down our church. I heard him say the "1st sealing" is for the teachers and prophets and then God will seal the rest. ?? That is NOT biblical.
I encourage everyone to get in the word and study for yourselves. Listening to someone tear apart the SS week after week is not biblical. He should leave the church. Sadly he is deceiving many.” by @dmarie6824
That's heresy to say " not to pay a sin debt ". This speaker is a " angel of light ". satan loves deception
How does designing law and restoration work for those who don’t mature to the highest levels and therefore not fully restored? Are they saved ? Genuine question… I am sure he sees them as saved, but from logic I was wondering if this was saying you needed to be fully restored or not?
You can ask your question to him personally at his website. There is a Q&A each week after his SS class. I think you have to join as a member to ask questions.
@@kjohnson8174 thank you. Will try give it a try. Though with my luck on asking over internet… they are usually skipped.
Enjoyed the interview- wish they had kept going and allowing him to go deeper on the topics and ask more questions
The thief on the cross was at the 1st level of understanding the character of God. “Remember me when you enter into your kingdom”. Your belief in God as the remedy can occur at any phase of Christian growth. God Will continue the full restoration in heaven! Blessings! God is Good!
@user-rg I believe this might be a helpful analogy. Let's say you're terminally ill and covered in boils. If you trust the doctor will heal you from the illness, providing you accept and partake of the remedy(Christ), you're already on the path to life even though it takes time to be fully restored. So if you got run over by a truck before full restoration you've already been saved. In the legal model, salvation means a legal declaration, however there isn't any scripture to support the idea that salvation is in any way a legal process.
Tim is dead on regarding COVID and the churches response. Fast forward to 1:30:30 to listen.
Amen brother!:)
I would say Dr Jennings says the truth to the extent but to say others are wrong and he is right i don't think i would agree with him. Jesus never rejected or annulled the leadership of the church despite that he disagreed with them but he respected and upheld the leadership. But I don’t understand the independent ministries breaking up with the leadership of the church.
He does state often that he doesn't claim to have the correct interpretation of everything but yeah I think I get what you mean. Regarding independent ministries breaking away, I recall the the church leadership pushing mandatory chemical injections and breathing restriction face apparatus recently 🤔
I think his right vs wrong moment was when dr Jennings was contrasting statements he made about Covid that were later found correct. You’re correct that Jesus doesn’t reject people; they ultimately reject Him: “The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone.” Mark 12:10
You wouldn’t see John 2:13-21 or Matthew 21:12-13 as a rejection of the church leadership of His day?
I don’t know where you grew up doctor or which Adventist church u went to,are you talking about seventh day Adventist church or just Adventist ? Because there is a difference between the two. Anyway I
grew up very happy seventh day Adventist, always we or I was told or thought to read and study for myself by my church leaders ,that is why you and I had Bible and sabbath school lessons to help us to study Bible for ourselves then as you said we had Spirit of prophecy books to read for ourselves and pray . I am very great full for seventh day Adventist church to help me in that way!
These days I hear many people making the leadership a reason or accountable for their ignorance ,I am respectfully say this including you doctor . Unless for my own fault ,I grew up very happy and free ,not only does and don’ts . I was always thought about the law but not legalism may be the matter depend on our own understanding of the leaders. We need to remember that what Jesus told to his disciples in Mattew 23 1-3
I heard you on another video on coming out ministry too ,I see exaggeration in your presentations. I learned that Jesus paid the wage for humanities sins by taking away the condemnation of sin from us by dying our death .
The Bible teaches there r records in heaven .
I think we have to blame somebody on the media as it is becoming our habit these days. I am not saying don’t touch the leaders ,but we can not make them all accountable for the teachings we didn’t understand or misunderstood in the past .
What is the condemnation and how did Jesus take it away? Why did Jesus have to die?
@mercywolde5630 I am having the same thoughts. I agree that you must search the scriptures for yourself. While we can listen to others, we must go to God who will help us understand His word. I was taught by my parents to study for oneself and do not accept anything anyone says until you compare and test it by the word for yourself. That is the biggest issue of the church, we are no longer known as the "people of the book"
@seekingwhattheysought love the healing model and design law concepts. Something that struck me as I listened was this seems a bit like repackaged last generation theology, ie when peoples characters are fully developed then Jesus can come back. I wish you would have pushed back on that and if there is a future episode with Tim ask him about that.
Brother Justin! I went to their site and looked up LGT and came across a blog Dr. Jennings wrote last year. The “TL;DR” version is that LGT is normally taught in an imposed law view where perfection has to do with deeds and actions that are in line with “the rules.” However, biblical perfection as Jennings advocates is a state of complete love and trust and maturity of character - not a sinless state. For example, Jesus was born sinless but had to develop that mature or perfect character by coming to love and trust God even to the point of the Cross. I’ll link the blog, but I believe Jennings rejects LGT in an imposed law view but instead believes that people will eventually become either sheep or goats in the last days through their own free will and understanding of God’s character. This is why the conversation we saw here often seems to be on two different planes - Adventist church politics/identity vs the greater universal conflict that involves everyone, Adventist or not.
comeandreason.com/last-generation-theology/
@@ryandieter9245don't you get it ??he's a humanist!!! that's not Christianity! SDA does not have the Jesus of the Bible! and they never have had.! They say the second Goat to Leviticus 16:10( is the devil )((((which is Jesus Christ at the cross)!!! 1 Peter 2: 24 ..(they have no atonement)!!!!!! they have no salvation. In other words they say it's not completed at the cross!
I love timothy jennings. Lots of great teachings. Adventism isnt divided into two. Its divided into over 20 sects. Over 20. No one but God know the amount of sects.
All your theology of salvation has to be filtered through the thief on the cross. He had no character development. He didn't reach a plane of morality. He didn't clean up his life. He only asked to be remembered.
The thief along with many other people will be saved who were and are at different levels of moral development, but when Jesus returns there will be a group of people who are willing to give up their lives for others and who have had the law of love written on their hearts, John 15:13 and Revelation 12:11, along with understanding the origin of evil and nature of sin, God's character of love, the purpose of the Cross and how God's Design laws including the moral law actually work, among other things. I want to be part of that group of people.
_"WHAT IS AN ADVENTIST?"_
*NOTHING BUT A MODERN DAY PHARISEE*
You obviously didn't listen to the podcast
@@russellbantin8468
Even if one didn't listen to this, the *ANSWER IS STILL100% CORRECT*
So stop tantrum like a child.
@@nonconformist4802 Wow, what an ass...
@@nonconformist4802 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
In slang, a troll is a person who posts or makes inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages online or in real life, with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception, thus acting as a bully or a provocateur. Wikipedia
Isaiah 45:5-7
Hebrews 12:3-11
The Bible leaves no doubt on what activities are to done on the Sabbath Day read Isa 58 :12-14 EGW has said God is not waiting to punish the sinner. The sinner brings punishment upon himself . God always allows us to make choices. He never condemns any one He sent Jesus to save us from sin Read John 3: 17 -19. God is not happy about anyone perishing but that all should come to repentance At He judment we only have ourselves to blame for our eternal destiny.
I'm thankful for being saved --- not adventist, not protestant, not catholic, not church of christ, not presbyterian, not baptist --- just saved by the shed blood and FINISHED work Jesus accomplished for salvation 😅
Flesh that out... What was finished and how?
@@russellbantin8468 Russell, if you believe you are SAVED and you do not know what was FINISHED, then you certainly MUST find out. Time is short
@@Over-for-now So, I asked you.. Your answer is that I need to find it out. How can I know what you mean if you can't explain it?
@@russellbantin8468 Our Saviour God said " IT IS FINISHED" when HE accomplished salvation.
Our LORD Jesus Christ paid it ALL. He satisfied God's wrath against our sin
@@Over-for-now YOu have used a lot of loaded words that can have many meanings depending on your perspective of how God works. How did He accomplish our salvation? What did He pay and to whom? How do you define God's wrath? What is sin? I believe if you were to watch the entirety of this video, you would see that there are different ways of defining what Jesus did and why. It would be a great discussion.
Boy the old serpent is cunning !
The Bible says we are perfected BY SUFFERING!
This guys brilliant…unbiblical but brilliant.
You might read John 6 again. Many turned away because of this teaching.
When I was an Adventist, I did NOT experience Adventism teaching a tyrannical God. In fact, the opposite. I was raised in Adventism in Texas during the 1970s with SDA evangelists Glenn Coon and Steve Marshall and David Meeker giving this absolutely wonderful view of God and heaven. We elementary-aged SDA kids experienced a profound revival--and many would call it a SDA reformation that the older SDAs considered a falling away from conservative, traditional Adventism. I absolutely found a kind and loving God when in the Adventist culture I grew up in. Therefore, there is really nothing Dr. Jennings is saying that is remotely like my experience either within Adventism nor Catholicism.
From the intense, yet sorrowful, looks on your faces, it seems like what he is saying doesn't really reverberate with you guys either.
Hey SDA members--I know you are disappointed and/or embarrassed by SDA nonsense associated with leaders and pastors. I get it. I've been going to church for 70 years. SDA Dan & Revelation seminars are basically religious BAIT & SWITCH programs to get people to join SDA Laodiceans and after they are in church they are criticized, by inept, poorly trained SDA pastors, for being tithe robbing, sabbath slacking, love-lacking, lazy, lousy lukewarm Laodicean LOSERS! Then after they have been berated, they are told to "finish the work" and tell everyone the "3 angels messages" to scare them with mark of the beast, Sunday law, close of probation, time of trouble, death decree and last plagues. Soooo do you really care if the SDA denomination CRASHES & BURNS??? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?? HUH?? Reply to this and I can teach you how to make a positive difference in this world & really be SALT & LIGHT...and have a real purpose for your life!!
Hi. Do you believe God kills and destroy?
What does scripture say in response to your question? Read Genesis 19 and 1 Samuel 15. I believe God is love as it says in 1
John 4:7-21 Maybe we need to step back and ask, "How is God being loving in these instances?" Am I to judge God? Am I, am human more just than God am I more loving than God? Do I really even understand the essence of Love and Justice? If you believe that the word of God is true and expresses the truth of what He commands his people to do and has done Himself, you must wrestle with these realities. Be careful though to jump to judging God when it is by His love and grace that He takes away all the sins of the world through the lamb of God, Jesus Christ. God takes responsibility for Sin on the cross in Christ and thus He is fully capable of judging the world as well.@@hipernessa
@@Lightbringer012 I think you may have misunderstood @hipernessa friend. It was an honest question to assertion your position on the issue dr Jennings was discussing. Which is about scripture being misrepresented to teach that God is the one who inflicts death and suffering when the Bible teaches God is love and is not the source of death and suffering. Please consider the context in 1sam 15.
1-They were not being punished for sin since the punishment for sin is eternal death and no-one experiences that punishment until judgement day/lake of fire. Also remember that they sleep until the resurrection... they did not die.
2- The reason God ordered their destruction was because they were going to destroy the Hebrews thus preventing the royal line to Messiah. Messiah had to be born or all is lost.
3-It was the Hebrews decision to fight the amalekites. God said not to fight them, He told them He would send in the hornet and they could take the land peacefully, but the Hebrews chose to disobey. So in order to have future peace, God said to put them all to sleep because if you leaves a few alive then they will gather up forces again and attack you again. (Which we see happening today)
4- bear in mind the Hebrew mindset of being very rebellious and stubborn. Like a good parent, God uses the right language to keep His children safe. Think of how a parent will raise their voice and use strong language to prevent a child from running across the busy road...it's for protection.
In summary, All God's actions are for love and protection and never takes away anyone's freedom. Sin is a terminal condition which God has provided a remedy for which is Christ on the cross.
How do you understand by law? What understand Adventist Church o Catholics church the law? Both understand that it is a list of codes given from a God and He ask obedience. If you don’t obey, you offend god. You got legal problem. It is not true, you have spiritual problems.
I disagree with Dr Jennings about the denomination today adopting that the law is the ceremonial law. The law in Galatians is all law - both the moral / ten commandments and the ceremonial law. It sounds to me like can't take council from leaders in the church. The shift in our denomination took place when pastors like Morris Vendon began preaching righteousness by faith. I have read much of Dr Jennings book but I am disappointed to hear about his issues with leaders of the church.
Not quite sure what you mean but in defence of dr Jennings he teaches that the Hebrews were under threat of extermination from surrounding nations so God gave them rules to enable their survival in order for Messiah to be born of the royal line. Once Messiah was born it wasn't imperative to follow those rules. Hope I'm not off track with your statement. Cheers
But it is His blood that saves us. It is applied to our sins in the heavenly sanctuary.
Metaphor. What is the meaning?
Calling a literal reality a metaphor is ridiculous.
@@JenniferPatterson-r9x How do you apply blood (a physical entity, a liquid tissue composed of multitudes of cell types and proteins) to a non-physical entity, the sins of the world? Is it applied with cheesecloth? Or with a toothbrush perhaps?
How much blood is needed, given that the average volume in one adult male body is ~5 liters? Does every sin receive just one red cell so that there is enough to go around?
It is Obviously a metaphor.
To take it literally and thus to fail to ask for the meaning of the metaphor is to fail to take the Bible seriously.
What is the benefit of knowing that God is not a being whose physical form is either a trinity or a single being, if we still don't understand the true character of God? There is no point in knowing that the Creator is not a trinity, if we are still confused about God's Character. There is no point in knowing the Creator is not a trinity, if we still believe the One True God has the “blended” character of the trinity god. It is by beholding we become changed. The character that we suppose belongs to our God, will be reproduced in us. We had better be sure we know just what God's Character is like for that character will be our character as time progresses.
Not sure what this person is talking about. I have been adventist for years and have not heard of such teaching. Yes there are differences in the church like any other church but the teaching is always according to scripture. We are to be careful that we don't complicate the message of salvation resulting in confusion for those seeking the truth. Jesus is our example, His life and teaching draw people to Him. We may have all the knowledge debating how things should or shouldn't be, but if people don't see Jesus in us then something is very wrong with us.
I don't think anything he said contradicts that people should see Jesus in us, and I don't think he is complicating the message of salvation. He is just saying that people should know what salvation actually means, and where it comes from. Many Christians present God as an arbitrary dictator instead of the healing savior that He is. If someone thinks that sharing the truth about God's character is complicating the message of salvation, then their view of salvation isn't based in reality. Jesus showed the character of God perfectly. If we want people to see Jesus in us, we should want to understand and be transformed into that same character.
@feagainiumata. The church leadership is teaching that God punishes those who have rejected salvation in the lake of fire. Salvation in the Greek is sodso, it's where we get the words salve, (eye salve) it means to heal, restore (salvage) It doesnt have any legal meaning yet church leadership is telling us that salvation means that God has made a legal declaration that He won't kill us. The legal model of salvation is complicated and there isn't any scripture to support the idea of God making legal declarations. Bible teaches that sin is a terminal condition which results in death unless one accepts and partakes of the remedy (Christ on the cross) so there's no need for God to punish since sin causes punishment and death. Jam 1:5. Gal 6:8. This is what scripture teaches and what our founders and early church taught.
But Tim, there is a punishment, right?
Luke 12:48 (KJV)
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
The wicked are punished “according to their deeds.” Satan is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. In the flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch-Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met. Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his temptations. . GrH_c 53.5
55:00 That's amusing--no insult intended at all. The Catholics are always told they took so much "traditions" of the Jews by Protestants. In fact, if you read the Early Church Fathers, you will find that Catholic doctrine has enormous fidelity to the Old Covenant for His people--Israel. We just see much of the Old Covenant fulfilled in Christ and obey the NEW covenant law instigated by Christ on the Mount of Olives. Nothing changed by Catholics, but changed by Christ and the Apostles. You will see that quite clearly in scripture backed up by the writings of those 2nd generation Christians who were taught by the Apostles.
I pray that the veil be removed about the only true God's character, blessings
The great controversy, and the investigative judgment are not biblical. It makes me very sad that Dr. Jennings combines these Adventist doctrines with the gospel in this interview. My prayer for every Christian, including myself is that we will know the truth and the truth will set us free!
The Bible is full of the great controversy theme, a cosmic conflict and Revelation refers to a war up in heaven.
A war over the character and government of God.
Rev 12:7: "There was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought using truth and love against the lies and deceptions of the dragon, but the dragon and his angels fought back against the truth, spreading more lies about God and Jesus, his Son."
Very shocked that these young guys aren’t even capable of sharing the EGW quotes of her “punishing” God…she was a double fork tongue also.
I don't care how many millions of denominations there are.
Jesus receives ALL the GLORY and the ONLY WAY God WiLL accept for entrance into heaven is the FINISHED work of HIS SON. FORGET denominations !!!!
What is the "ft" stand for in the title name: ft Timothy Jennings?
"featuring"
I've arrived on this channel as a result of someone on another channel suggesting this brother's name.
I've listened to the prologue, hoping to hear some ground breaking new ways of thinking or even deeper way of analysing scripture.
I must say that i'm disappointed.
My disappointment i based on the man's point of argument. Instead of comparing the ways, his way and the other that he disputes, he goes on a sudden attack, the attack is not that complex, it is like a boxer who thinks that the volume of punches they throw wins the contest.
I call it a contest now because he highlights two systems here; his 'reasoning' and the other side's 'conformity' as he implies.
My argument is this;
1. When he talks about the blood of Jesus being a metaphor and goes on to give a weak example of his patients application...what does he mean?
-A metaphor is a figure of speech that implicitly compares two unrelated things, typically by stating that one thing is another (e.g., “that chef is a magician”). Metaphors can be used to create vivid imagery, exaggerate a characteristic or action, or express a complex idea.
Jesus blood in the context for which it is used in the bible, is it not literal and symbolic depending on the context?
In Heb 9:22, the word of God tells us that there's no remission of sin except by the shedding of blood.
The sacrificial system pointed to Jesus, who would be crucified for the sins of the whole world. where is the metaphor here?
Symbolically we partake of the grape Juice and unleavened bread as a way of remembering Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross.
2. The Dr implies that what he experienced growing up was a system of do's and don'ts and goes on to give another weak example as not being able to go swimming...and i would add, gyming, going for a run or a jog, playing some soft badminton et cetera...what's wrong with that?
-When we read about God's dealings with the Israelites when they left the land of slavery both physical and can i say spiritual...God gave them a set of rules. This rules and commandments were meant for redemption and to prepare them to dwell with a Holy God.
Deutronomy 28...Blessings and Curses...if you do this, if you live like this..then you get the blessings or you condemn yourself!
Isn't that the whole reason for Jesus dying on the cross...John 3:16 for God so loved the world...He did not send Jesus to condemn...but that he who believes in him (dos) might be saved...he that believes in Him (do) is not condemned...he that does not (don'ts) is condemned...by the fact that he does not do....so, there you go, do's and don'ts...bad or good? be the judge.
-Regarding the other thing he said/mentioned i.e swimming. Nothing wrong with swimming at all. But the question is this, God has given us 6 days for ourselves, He's set one for Himself for a Holy convocation. And He says blessed is he that calls the sabbath a delight, does not pursue his pleasures on that day...Now, exercising is not eating or drinking, it's my own personal works, which i have six days to do, how is it not pursuing it on a sabbath legalism?
3. He touches on the law and implies that the Adventists teach from a perspective of the Roman church which implies that God has set the law as an obstacle or a to an extent a trap and a kill-joy. I refute that argument.
The bible says that law is good, holy and just Romans 7:12. In fact it's called the law of Liberty, James 2:12, for when you fulfil the requirements of the law...you lead a peaceful life..for you will not steal, murder, kill, testify falsely...you have a sound sleep at night and walk the earth without fear of being arrested or attacked for infringement on other's rights.
Israel was constantly held captive, not by being circumspective regarding the law..but by constantly breaking it...by worship of idols and injustices towards one another...the turning away from true God to worship idols ushered the second infringement towards one another.
Is not the law that defines what sin is, is not the transgression of this very law that caused satan to be thrown out of heaven, Adam out of the garden and the ushering of death and suffering that the world has ever been experiencing?...
I have not suffered to listen to the whole conversation as i can't spend more than 1.5 hrs listening to a waffle...probably he's used scriptures afterwards...but the lack of scripture and comparing this scripture with the other has put me off.
Swimming and bathing are two different things 8:48
The remedy for sin is the heavenly sanctuary. It truly is a shame that he rejects the meds. 28:02