I have successfully supplemented an older kid from quads. I believe she was 4-6 weeks old when I started supplementation. This is the only kid I’ve ever had to supplement. She picked it up pretty quickly.
Bought an 8 week doeling that was a quad and weighed 8 pounds. Put her on a bottle immediately. Took less then 5 minutes. I covered her eyes and once it was in her mouth she was fine. Never had cocidiosis.
Of course, there are exceptions. Unfortunately, a lot of people think that if a kid won't take a bottle, it's not hungry or doesn't need the milk. That's wonderful that she took a bottle so easily! It didn't have anything to do with covering her eyes. It's not about what they see. The movement required for getting milk out of a bottle is different from nursing on mom, which is why kids have a hard time switching. And the older they are, the harder it is.
With age my brain is losing its ability to retain numbers - could you please remind me how much Toggenburg kids should gain per day? That way I have somewhere I can refer back to every time I forget :) The kids are due in September so I'm sure I'll forget by then :P
Somewhere around 6-8 ounces a day. If you're weighing them, you'll see what the average is. You don't usually have to worry about twins, but it's still a good idea to weigh them. We had a single lamb that gained nothing the first day, which made us think there might be something up with his mom's udder, and yep, she had a horrendous case of mastitis!
Is there anything to be done for the screaming that happens when you separate the kids? They just yell and yell once the sun comes up and in north Idaho that is like 4:30 a.m. which is WAY to early 😅 I waited until they were 8 weeks old to start separating them because that’s how long it took to get them to 20+ lbs.
If you can separate them with a fence rather than a solid wall, they tend to get less stressed because they can lay next to each other on the fenceline. If you don't have too many kids, you can put them in a wire dog crate in the stall with mom so they can lay down next to each other. Ultimately it gets better as they get older and accustomed to it.
If kids were growing just a little slower than 4 oz/day would you supplement with a high protein creep feed? Thinking like calf manna or Enrich (~30%). Or automatically go to medicated feed? Triplets and quads with no symptoms of coccidiosis.
Hi! This is Abby. I help Deborah respond to messages on social media. I'll let her know about your questions. I would like to ask: What's the breed of your baby goats? How old are they? And what is their current weight? Also, check out these articles and video. thriftyhomesteader.com/how-many-kids-can-doe-feed/ thriftyhomesteader.com/preventing-coccidiosis/ thriftyhomesteader.com/raising-baby-goats/ thriftyhomesteader.com/what-do-goats-eat-it-depends/ Supplementing Dam-Raised Kids: th-cam.com/users/livedlT0Je64_Ww And feel free to give us more information that might help us answer your question. ~Abby
I hope you've had a chance to check out the videos and articles Abby shared. Without knowing the specifics of your situation, I can't give you much more info because the answer is always "it depends," so if you check out those other resources, you'll learn more about the various factors involved. I do NOT recommend anything higher than 16% protein about 99% of the time.
@@ginnytr Two weeks is where you usually start to see problems because the kids' birth weight should double in those two weeks, which means their consumption will double. Some does can't keep up with that, and if you're talking quads, you'd have a goat in the top 1% of milkers nationally to be able to produce enough because ND kids need a quart a day starting around 3-4 weeks, and very few ND can produce a gallon a day. They need 20% of their weight up to 32 ounces a day, so the bigger they get, the more milk they need, the harder it is for mom to keep up with what they need. The sooner you start to supplement, the easier it will be, although by two weeks, they will probably act like you're trying to poison them. In the early years, I had a couple of "happy to be starving" babies who died from starvation because I didn't try hard enough to get them to take a bottle. Too many people online were saying, "Don't worry! A doe can raise quads!" People who do that are not weighing the kids, and by two months, they'll have kids that range in size from 12 to 20+ pounds, and the little ones wind up with bad parasite problems. There is no feed that can provide the concentrated protein and calcium that milk can when kids are so young with such tiny tummies. They have to drink their nutrition to get enough.
I have successfully supplemented an older kid from quads. I believe she was 4-6 weeks old when I started supplementation. This is the only kid I’ve ever had to supplement. She picked it up pretty quickly.
That's great!
Bought an 8 week doeling that was a quad and weighed 8 pounds. Put her on a bottle immediately. Took less then 5 minutes. I covered her eyes and once it was in her mouth she was fine. Never had cocidiosis.
Of course, there are exceptions. Unfortunately, a lot of people think that if a kid won't take a bottle, it's not hungry or doesn't need the milk. That's wonderful that she took a bottle so easily! It didn't have anything to do with covering her eyes. It's not about what they see. The movement required for getting milk out of a bottle is different from nursing on mom, which is why kids have a hard time switching. And the older they are, the harder it is.
Thank you, my NDs haven’t had quads yet so am really glad to have seen this - I’ll be prepared 😊
You're welcome! We're glad you found it helpful! ~Abby
With age my brain is losing its ability to retain numbers - could you please remind me how much Toggenburg kids should gain per day? That way I have somewhere I can refer back to every time I forget :)
The kids are due in September so I'm sure I'll forget by then :P
Somewhere around 6-8 ounces a day. If you're weighing them, you'll see what the average is. You don't usually have to worry about twins, but it's still a good idea to weigh them. We had a single lamb that gained nothing the first day, which made us think there might be something up with his mom's udder, and yep, she had a horrendous case of mastitis!
@@deborahniemann2398 Thank you, and I do plan to weigh them this time around just to be sure everyone has the best possible start :)
Is there anything to be done for the screaming that happens when you separate the kids? They just yell and yell once the sun comes up and in north Idaho that is like 4:30 a.m. which is WAY to early 😅 I waited until they were 8 weeks old to start separating them because that’s how long it took to get them to 20+ lbs.
If you can separate them with a fence rather than a solid wall, they tend to get less stressed because they can lay next to each other on the fenceline. If you don't have too many kids, you can put them in a wire dog crate in the stall with mom so they can lay down next to each other. Ultimately it gets better as they get older and accustomed to it.
If kids were growing just a little slower than 4 oz/day would you supplement with a high protein creep feed? Thinking like calf manna or Enrich (~30%). Or automatically go to medicated feed? Triplets and quads with no symptoms of coccidiosis.
Hi! This is Abby. I help Deborah respond to messages on social media. I'll let her know about your questions. I would like to ask:
What's the breed of your baby goats? How old are they? And what is their current weight?
Also, check out these articles and video.
thriftyhomesteader.com/how-many-kids-can-doe-feed/
thriftyhomesteader.com/preventing-coccidiosis/
thriftyhomesteader.com/raising-baby-goats/
thriftyhomesteader.com/what-do-goats-eat-it-depends/
Supplementing Dam-Raised Kids: th-cam.com/users/livedlT0Je64_Ww
And feel free to give us more information that might help us answer your question. ~Abby
I hope you've had a chance to check out the videos and articles Abby shared. Without knowing the specifics of your situation, I can't give you much more info because the answer is always "it depends," so if you check out those other resources, you'll learn more about the various factors involved. I do NOT recommend anything higher than 16% protein about 99% of the time.
@DeborahNiemann sorry for delay. Average gain is 3.6 oz per day. 2 weeks old Nigerian dwarf. I did look at the other videos.
@@ginnytr Two weeks is where you usually start to see problems because the kids' birth weight should double in those two weeks, which means their consumption will double. Some does can't keep up with that, and if you're talking quads, you'd have a goat in the top 1% of milkers nationally to be able to produce enough because ND kids need a quart a day starting around 3-4 weeks, and very few ND can produce a gallon a day. They need 20% of their weight up to 32 ounces a day, so the bigger they get, the more milk they need, the harder it is for mom to keep up with what they need. The sooner you start to supplement, the easier it will be, although by two weeks, they will probably act like you're trying to poison them. In the early years, I had a couple of "happy to be starving" babies who died from starvation because I didn't try hard enough to get them to take a bottle. Too many people online were saying, "Don't worry! A doe can raise quads!" People who do that are not weighing the kids, and by two months, they'll have kids that range in size from 12 to 20+ pounds, and the little ones wind up with bad parasite problems. There is no feed that can provide the concentrated protein and calcium that milk can when kids are so young with such tiny tummies. They have to drink their nutrition to get enough.