Anyone who thinks you could just use Gimp doesn't use Gimp. It's so far behind Photoshop it isn't even funny. I compile that shit from source in order to enable unreleased features and make it bearable to use on my Linux desktop.
My favourite joke about Gimp is that it was secretly developed and sold by Adobe, so the nearest competitor to PS would be goddawful. Krita, on the other hand, is actually quite nice... missing some PS features, though (better text support, etc).
The internet has the culture of people who really put their principles at the top of their lifestyles, and have so many principles that they end up having a perfectly curated set of ideas and tools. I think it's important to note that, even in industries that have a lot of connection to internet culture like gaming and software creation, the real world still reigns supreme. Is it great to want companies to not be predatory, and for other, smaller companies to not associate with 'monsters'? Of course. Should you refuse to make a living and instead shut people down online for tolerating inconveniences? Probably not. There's something to be said about the old idea of getting to the top by playing by the rules, and then doing the right thing once you get there
I don't think it's totally hopeless for Blender. We did a 3 month school project, artists had all the tools in the world. I know, it's not professional, but these people were the professionals of the future. Sculpting was done in zbrush, animating in maya, texturing in substance 3d painter and photoshop (and a little bit in Unreal's material editor), but hard surface modeling was done in Blender. 💪 And not because of cost, but because these guys preferred Blender.
when I freelance I tend to also try and use as much of the default settings without some crazy hotkey scheme or plugin network as I can, that way if someone needs to "drive" my system to fix a problem it becomes that much easier for them to figure out how to use my computer as well. same reason...
speaking about learning stuff, I've been hearing that cross training is becoming popular in gamedev companies. I find it fun to be able to learn with someone that's specialised in their field while I am teaching them my own specialised field
@@chetfaliszek I don't have many exemples but I've had a conversation about this with an ankama employee, apparently they do this so that everyone can help and get insight from the other side of development. They said for instance that an artist might fix a programming issue in another way that a dev couldn't have thought about. Or that a programmer could more easily showcase their ideas using graphical/design skills they got from artists. Ankama btw is a very popular northern french studio that I'm planning on working at when I finish college
@@sloppy_slime i was a programmer on a FIRST robotics team, and doing this with teammates in other fields actually solved many issues during my time. Sometimes it's great to talk through a programming issue with a mechanical engineer.
i'm a dabbler. i found a FOSS tool that feels like it was made *for me*. everything clicks. it was like discovering a third arm i never knew i had. the ideas in my head become reality faster than ever before. i am a beast in this thing. but it's a weird tool that nobody uses. i would not recommend it to anyone else.
I hope that one day this isn't true because, while I know the reality of the situation, I never stop feeling bad about myself for fueling these companies.
It's most certainly people who don't use Photoshop professionally. I switched over to Affinity for personal stuff (and continue to use photoshop professionally at work), and even I notice the step down it is, and Affinity is fully featured paid software.
Your support of people pushing for open standards and ownership of software here is how i feel about it as well, and how I felt when you did a video on people pushing for making games archivalable/future-proof. No, it's not the way the system works, and it's not realistic in any immediate sense for most cases. But I'm happy there are people pushing for these ideas in that maybe they'll generally push the "Overton Window of Game Concerns" vaguely in that direction and things will get cooler for more people long-term. Just hopefully people aren't jerks about things. Politics is weird. Yay idealism, I guess.
Delightfully (and unsurprisingly), this video is immediately followed by an ad for Adobe. =D Agree with what you're saying, largely, Chet, though there's plenty of examples of games made promptly using Blender, Krita etc. I'm curious, though, what kind of asset standards are you targetting for Stray Bombay's future games? The Anacrusis (double A?)? Or would you consider compromising along the abstract/stylistic axis in order to save on time/money?
yeah they exist but he also made a case on how this can't apply to all developers. And why a worker can't just walk in to a studio and force his tools into the pipeline, it's just not efficent and you potentially waste other's time. Personally, I think this all starts on college/university, students are formed to use these specific suites and the companies that offer them give deals so that they do so (certifications, courses, etc.), all because you want to prepare them for the professional world, but at the same time causing that world to be like this. At my university, they didn't want to move into a subscription with Adobe, but remained using CS6, unfortunately since you can't obtain CS6 from Adobe anymore (unless you're looking to get audited), only a few machines have it installed, but our teachers all use CC, so you constantly bump into having to offer alternatives to those using the classroom's machines or leaving them behind on the current topic... This issue applies to the whole 'Adobe trinity': Ps, Ai and Id. Very few competitors and even fewer in the free software circle.
@@vxpdx Oh, yeah, you absolutely need to learn the most common toolset, I don't think I'm arguing with that. Agree with you on PS/AI/ID, though familiarity with a vaguely recent version of PS will get you most of the way to working with the latest CS version. Gonna have to learn Maya, though - worried about that, coming from Blender...
I think a lot of people who haven't worked at a larger 'professional' company don't realize how differently the economics of those companies tend to differ from an individual. An employee making 100k salary likely costs the company close to twice that each year once you add in overhead, healthcare, support, etc. Compared to that, paying a few hundred bucks per year to provide them with software is basically a rounding error. Even if it only makes them 5% more efficient than they'd otherwise be, then it easily pays for itself.
It's exactly what I dislike about the blender cult following. It's amazing many things professional 3d software can do, can be done for free using blender. Full stop. But what is your focus? Doing things (for) free? Or making the best possible version of something? Oh well 🤷♂️
I understand your point, what really grinds my gears about all this is the fact the if companies invested in the free and open source tools (either by having in-house developers building the things they need and contributing upstream or monetary funding) these would probably be better or on par offerings to the "industry standards", and I understand not all companies have the resources to do so, but at the very least, the big ones should. I never had such a joyful interaction with any of the vendors support, so to me the "but you get support" is mostly a myth. And lastly there's also the fact that people (as you mentioned) learned the tools they needed to land the job, so these tools set the "industry workflow", so anything that diverges from that it's unacceptable and not even worth considering. It's definitely a people problem, but at the same time thos who can change things are not doing it (or not enough) and expect GIMP to magically one day be better than PS.
@@chetfaliszek while my comment is veiled with bias (what I wish) I still believe it would be beneficial for companies/the industry since we'd have more leverage against vendors (the current problem), allowed the actual users of the tools to drive the narrative (you got the artist using the tool and the developer already in house, your developers becomes both "support" and creates whatever niche thing you need for that project, bonus points if it's generic enough and can be upstreamed); and with the fairly high turnover of people across companies a more "common" workflow could be achieved reducing the time when you onboard someone; and people could get their feet wet without having to shell out money, potentially bringing more people to the industry by lowering the entry barrier. This would also have the side effect that the isv would have to actually step up and remain competitive instead of complacent. Kinda playing the long game.
@@Minkiu Again - it's from your point of view there is a problem. And from what you describe - have you ever worked on a large team? That is so much wasted resources just to add complexity.
Morning Chet (from the UK anyway) how do we as a community and indie Devs get these open source and alternative tools to the same level of easy, support and wide spread as the the mainstream stuff in your opinion?
Fre software ingeneral is made by hobbists, nobody is the leader and nothing gets integrated. Gimp is actially terrible lacking all the tricks adobe had for a decade. The only upside is the install size and ram needed. I am a dabbler for like 15 years, but I see the job listings they all use PS.
Anyone who thinks you could just use Gimp doesn't use Gimp. It's so far behind Photoshop it isn't even funny. I compile that shit from source in order to enable unreleased features and make it bearable to use on my Linux desktop.
My favourite joke about Gimp is that it was secretly developed and sold by Adobe, so the nearest competitor to PS would be goddawful. Krita, on the other hand, is actually quite nice... missing some PS features, though (better text support, etc).
The internet has the culture of people who really put their principles at the top of their lifestyles, and have so many principles that they end up having a perfectly curated set of ideas and tools. I think it's important to note that, even in industries that have a lot of connection to internet culture like gaming and software creation, the real world still reigns supreme. Is it great to want companies to not be predatory, and for other, smaller companies to not associate with 'monsters'? Of course. Should you refuse to make a living and instead shut people down online for tolerating inconveniences? Probably not. There's something to be said about the old idea of getting to the top by playing by the rules, and then doing the right thing once you get there
I don't think it's totally hopeless for Blender. We did a 3 month school project, artists had all the tools in the world. I know, it's not professional, but these people were the professionals of the future.
Sculpting was done in zbrush, animating in maya, texturing in substance 3d painter and photoshop (and a little bit in Unreal's material editor), but hard surface modeling was done in Blender. 💪 And not because of cost, but because these guys preferred Blender.
when I freelance I tend to also try and use as much of the default settings without some crazy hotkey scheme or plugin network as I can, that way if someone needs to "drive" my system to fix a problem it becomes that much easier for them to figure out how to use my computer as well. same reason...
speaking about learning stuff, I've been hearing that cross training is becoming popular in gamedev companies. I find it fun to be able to learn with someone that's specialised in their field while I am teaching them my own specialised field
Who is doing this? I’ve never seen it or heard it mentioned
@@chetfaliszek I don't have many exemples but I've had a conversation about this with an ankama employee, apparently they do this so that everyone can help and get insight from the other side of development. They said for instance that an artist might fix a programming issue in another way that a dev couldn't have thought about. Or that a programmer could more easily showcase their ideas using graphical/design skills they got from artists. Ankama btw is a very popular northern french studio that I'm planning on working at when I finish college
@@sloppy_slime i was a programmer on a FIRST robotics team, and doing this with teammates in other fields actually solved many issues during my time. Sometimes it's great to talk through a programming issue with a mechanical engineer.
i'm a dabbler.
i found a FOSS tool that feels like it was made *for me*.
everything clicks. it was like discovering a third arm i never knew i had.
the ideas in my head become reality faster than ever before. i am a beast in this thing.
but it's a weird tool that nobody uses. i would not recommend it to anyone else.
feels like describing vim, haaha
I hope that one day this isn't true because, while I know the reality of the situation, I never stop feeling bad about myself for fueling these companies.
Imagine being that person that thinks GIMP is a reasonable alternative to photoshop. Actually incredible
Gimp is awful
@@romulino Krita's quite nice, though - bit limited, however.
It's most certainly people who don't use Photoshop professionally. I switched over to Affinity for personal stuff (and continue to use photoshop professionally at work), and even I notice the step down it is, and Affinity is fully featured paid software.
Yeah, I don't think it's what Davinci Resolve is to Adobe Premier. Definitely not analogous.
GIMP is not terrible, but rather is a puzzle based image editor (read this on Reddit and I laughed so much)
Your support of people pushing for open standards and ownership of software here is how i feel about it as well, and how I felt when you did a video on people pushing for making games archivalable/future-proof. No, it's not the way the system works, and it's not realistic in any immediate sense for most cases. But I'm happy there are people pushing for these ideas in that maybe they'll generally push the "Overton Window of Game Concerns" vaguely in that direction and things will get cooler for more people long-term. Just hopefully people aren't jerks about things.
Politics is weird. Yay idealism, I guess.
Delightfully (and unsurprisingly), this video is immediately followed by an ad for Adobe. =D Agree with what you're saying, largely, Chet, though there's plenty of examples of games made promptly using Blender, Krita etc.
I'm curious, though, what kind of asset standards are you targetting for Stray Bombay's future games? The Anacrusis (double A?)? Or would you consider compromising along the abstract/stylistic axis in order to save on time/money?
yeah they exist but he also made a case on how this can't apply to all developers. And why a worker can't just walk in to a studio and force his tools into the pipeline, it's just not efficent and you potentially waste other's time.
Personally, I think this all starts on college/university, students are formed to use these specific suites and the companies that offer them give deals so that they do so (certifications, courses, etc.), all because you want to prepare them for the professional world, but at the same time causing that world to be like this.
At my university, they didn't want to move into a subscription with Adobe, but remained using CS6, unfortunately since you can't obtain CS6 from Adobe anymore (unless you're looking to get audited), only a few machines have it installed, but our teachers all use CC, so you constantly bump into having to offer alternatives to those using the classroom's machines or leaving them behind on the current topic...
This issue applies to the whole 'Adobe trinity': Ps, Ai and Id. Very few competitors and even fewer in the free software circle.
@@vxpdx Oh, yeah, you absolutely need to learn the most common toolset, I don't think I'm arguing with that. Agree with you on PS/AI/ID, though familiarity with a vaguely recent version of PS will get you most of the way to working with the latest CS version. Gonna have to learn Maya, though - worried about that, coming from Blender...
It's not even that expensive for a solo dev. PS sub $10mo, Maya Indie sub $250pa.
I think a lot of people who haven't worked at a larger 'professional' company don't realize how differently the economics of those companies tend to differ from an individual. An employee making 100k salary likely costs the company close to twice that each year once you add in overhead, healthcare, support, etc. Compared to that, paying a few hundred bucks per year to provide them with software is basically a rounding error. Even if it only makes them 5% more efficient than they'd otherwise be, then it easily pays for itself.
It's exactly what I dislike about the blender cult following. It's amazing many things professional 3d software can do, can be done for free using blender. Full stop. But what is your focus? Doing things (for) free? Or making the best possible version of something? Oh well 🤷♂️
I understand your point, what really grinds my gears about all this is the fact the if companies invested in the free and open source tools (either by having in-house developers building the things they need and contributing upstream or monetary funding) these would probably be better or on par offerings to the "industry standards", and I understand not all companies have the resources to do so, but at the very least, the big ones should. I never had such a joyful interaction with any of the vendors support, so to me the "but you get support" is mostly a myth. And lastly there's also the fact that people (as you mentioned) learned the tools they needed to land the job, so these tools set the "industry workflow", so anything that diverges from that it's unacceptable and not even worth considering. It's definitely a people problem, but at the same time thos who can change things are not doing it (or not enough) and expect GIMP to magically one day be better than PS.
You want companies to spend money to improve your life and goals. Why would they do that?
@@chetfaliszek while my comment is veiled with bias (what I wish) I still believe it would be beneficial for companies/the industry since we'd have more leverage against vendors (the current problem), allowed the actual users of the tools to drive the narrative (you got the artist using the tool and the developer already in house, your developers becomes both "support" and creates whatever niche thing you need for that project, bonus points if it's generic enough and can be upstreamed); and with the fairly high turnover of people across companies a more "common" workflow could be achieved reducing the time when you onboard someone; and people could get their feet wet without having to shell out money, potentially bringing more people to the industry by lowering the entry barrier. This would also have the side effect that the isv would have to actually step up and remain competitive instead of complacent. Kinda playing the long game.
@@Minkiu Again - it's from your point of view there is a problem. And from what you describe - have you ever worked on a large team? That is so much wasted resources just to add complexity.
Morning Chet (from the UK anyway) how do we as a community and indie Devs get these open source and alternative tools to the same level of easy, support and wide spread as the the mainstream stuff in your opinion?
We don’t. We can’t. It just can’t exist in the same way.
@@chetfaliszek well that just sucks. Thanks for getting back to me, love your videos.
Fre software ingeneral is made by hobbists, nobody is the leader and nothing gets integrated. Gimp is actially terrible lacking all the tricks adobe had for a decade. The only upside is the install size and ram needed. I am a dabbler for like 15 years, but I see the job listings they all use PS.