Where's The Horsepower? This Big Block Powered 1966 Plymouth Belvedere II Needs Help
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- If you've been around the channel for a while, you may be familiar with this story by now. It's a sweet big block powered classic Mopar. It's got lots of go-fast parts, and from certain angles it looks like it wants to be a drag racer. And yet the performance is best described as a little underwhelming. So today, let's take a look at Greg's 1966 Plymouth Belvedere II, and see if we can find some of that missing horsepower.
- ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![[TH] 2024 PMWC x EWC Main Tournament Day 2 | PUBG MOBILE WORLD CUP x ESPORTS WORLD CUP](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TgEFw285vXA/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm going to state the obvious. That car is beautiful
Yes!
Absolutely!
Si!
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
A couple years ago I ran into almost this same issue with a friend of mines 400,after many hours of fiddling and tuning and still never running right we finally found from the information from all the specs of the engine when it was rebuilt that the compression only came out to just barely 8.0:1,and they had put a huge cam in it,and evidently they don't like that,because we put about a 3 or 4 sizes smaller cam in it and it ran great and cured all the bad running and tuning issues,ran like a totally different engine.... Not trying to say that's the issue with this Car,just something we ran into with that engine....low low compression with Huge cam= crappy running car lol. That is a beautiful Car!!!!👍
Oh absolutely, and a damn good point. I did exactly that with a 383 years ago. It was truly pathetic. The cam robbed all of the bottom end, and the tiny early cylinder heads removed any chance of top end power. It wouldn’t do a burn out. It wouldn’t do anything but sound kinda cool. I put in a teeny tiny cam, and suddenly it sounded tame but burned rubber and finally cruised nicely. That isn’t where my head went because I run into this same kind of combination pretty often, and am able to get them to at least kinda sorta work. And I did here, so that’s ok. But there is no question in my mind that a milder cam would do wonders here.
Torquey '66 GTO 389" vs big cammed little '66 Chevelle big block 396":
at 06:00 and 06:45 th-cam.com/video/SJIRitKQYrM/w-d-xo.html
Who ever rebuilt the engine bought a kit with the fattest head gaskets. Probably .40 m thick. Put in some .15 m or .20 m headgaskets might bump up your compression to 8.5, and pick up a cheap 30 Horses. Adjust your tranny shift rod to shift around 4500. Please invest in a timing light, so you know exactly what degrees your engine is timed at
@@JackSquat54 - Maybe even .055" thick...
My friend Dave has a 67 Belvedere with a factory 426 Hemi radio and heat delete. Runs in the 10 second range!
Sweet
Damn. [Eats heart out]
That is a simply GORGEOUS color!
“It’s so weird that the gas gauge works in this car” 😅😅 I feel your pain J.
I have picked up so much knowledge watching your videos and I have been working on cars for over 35 years. Thank you for that!
Really knowledgeable in depth diagnosis on a very deserving mopar.
15:35. You are saying the cam is slightly advanced. But something is missing here According to the Mopar Bible, you need to either:
A. Have the heads off and use a degree wheel and a dial indicator on the top of the number one piston. You don't just find the top, you measure with the piston down on each side , say 40 thousandths and use the degree wheel to find the mid point.
B. Use a degree wheel and a TDC stop, a threaded tool that goes into the spark plug hole and rests on the top of the piston when turning clockwise, then again when turning counter clockwise and using the degree wheel to "split the difference".
A screw driver in the spark plug hole is really only a very rough way to check these events since the piston seems to "dwell" at the top for quite a few degrees.
You need to find real TDC on the crank both to verify the cam is timed, the vibration damper is is marked
The way things are these days, it might be worth it to verify that the cam lobes are lined up since the cause of cam and lifter failure is bad angles of the lobes and lifter faces from the camshaft factory (not bad oil or technique) who knows if the loves even line up with the number one intake?
I admit I did not understand what you were saying about the two valves both being at a certain spot... I am sure it is valid.... but is it precise? As a method for determining if the cam is advanced.
I don't think we can be sure if the cam is advanced or straight up from that method. And, as others have said, advancing the cam helps low end performance, retarding it helps high end. You said it the other way around. I wonder how much vacuum there is at idle in that car.
No, it’s not very precise when measured at the valve with hydraulic lifters and rocker arms to consider. Measuring off the lifters is fully precise. I got that technique from Tony, who got it from an old school hotrodder, though I can’t remember which one. Measuring at the lifter is preferred. And indeed, verifying the timing mark precisely using a piston stop (which I have in the toolbox and fully understand the usage of) would be another aid to precision. Here’s why none of that matters in this case: I wasn’t looking for a precise cam timing measurement. I was looking for a grievous error like I found on the red ‘67 Charger.
Have always loved the 66-7 B bodies. However the 66 Coronet 500 is my favorite. Buddy had one. Console and buckets. Black interior with white seats. Gorgeous car. Color was kind of a champaign goldish. Very pretty. Had a 361. We put manifold, afb off of a 64 383. Always thought the 361 had more in it than we were able to coax. But alas kids experimenting.
In 1973 I was about to buy a 440 1966 Coronet from a guy at the place we both worked. Still recall his name, Jerry was somehow able to partially wrap the passenger door around the cement pad that hold up a parking lot street light. When I saw that I was horrified. Did not buy the car. All I have is the memory of the nearly Coronet.
That Belvedere in that color is BEYOND BEAUTIFUL.
the rectalanguitive exhaust ports mimic the rectalongical design of everything else on the car. I've never noticed how well done the instrument cluster is on these cars. The body work on these later 60s B bodies always looks high quality, a real step up over the earlier cars.
I added floor insulation under the carpet. 440 Headers make some heat. I failed to leave room for the gas pedal and my secondaries would not kick in and downshifting was sketchy. Bing the light came on 7/16" of insulation can do that. Now there is a hole in the insulation, and we are good again. We never overlook the obvious like is the fan turning in the right direction for engine rotation, mechanical or in the intended direction for electrical fans. I have a '71 Charger 440 with aluminum pullies and alternator brackets. I run the stock fan and a 3-core Champion radiator without a shroud, and it does well. Cars, never done.✌
Damn. I lust for your car. Had a 68 GTX 440, and curse myself every time I remember I sold it. Never, never sell yours.
That is one beautiful Belvedere. You get to work on and drive some really nice cars! Loved the way you were troubleshooting that accelerator cable linkage too.
Outstanding car! Bet she turns a lot of heads!!👍👍❤️
Get rid of the Holley!!!
That paint looks like candy. Absolutely beautiful
Stunning
I absolutely love that car and I like yourself, I usually only like the factory interiors but that one is done very tastefully. You did a great job tuning that thing looked seriously quick
She’s beautiful 😍 I love my ‘66 Belvedere II ❤️
i only had one give me an issue it was a Pontiac 400 with that same carburetor and a factory fuel pump and it was putting out 9 psi and I had to install a regulator and problem was solved but again that was only one, and that is a sharp car and the color and trim really look good, and nice job on that disturber and making the car happy again
Digging your channel more and more. Your knowledge is amazing and you get in some cool cars you go over. I raced 400’s and they do love timing when you cam them up. Yes, I normally gave it all the timing it wanted until it pinged on a hard pull then I backed it off enough that It no longer pinged. You know more than I do and I have forgot a few things so I will say you did fairly well with what you are working with. Nice work. It seems to pull decent enough for a street car.
Remarkable job getting that to run so good, sure is a piece of eye candy!
I just wanna say thank you for fixing my 66 Charger! I kept having random stalling at idle, i recurved the electronic dizzy using your trick, set idle at 20 deg, total at 38 and Its never ran so happy!
I've been working on my Mopars for over 30 years but still learning tricks from you. Love the channel, and keep rockin!
Awesome! Happy to help!
@@DeadDodgeGarage - Advancing the cam favors low RPMs torque, not high RPMs HP... cams effects are opposite ignition timing effects! Also make sure secondaries are opening on carb...
Center console looks like it came out of a DeLorean.
Like an elevator in an outhouse
@@kellismith4329 yes
1.21 Giggawatts!
I worked for Gabriel in the 90s. I was a picker (order filler). They produced Gabriel, Roadhandler, Hijackers, Duralast and other brands. The only difference between brands was the label and the box.
When using a mechanical pump I like to use a wix 33040 fuel filter with the 1/4” return line built in. It works great, always keeps the carb full and throws whatever excess back to the tank 👍
Great setup, have to add the full length return line to match of course. And that sounds like real work to me. Haha.
A air grabber would rock i think, But is very much a master piece of car history for sure. Reflection of that car is just bad ass.
That car idles pretty smooth considering it has a purple shaft cam in it. A bit too smoth and it still needs a vacuum pump? Wonder what kind of vacuum it's pulling? Would also be interesting to see what kind of compression it has. You definitely need a 32 squirter for the front of the carb. You'll probably need to drive the car to figure out which cam profile the squirter needs. Not sure why that intake is being used on that engine. Being a high rise single plane plus putting a 1" spacer on it isn't helping the carb signal. A good dual plane with a 1" spacer would be a lot better. That motor isn't going to flow the cfm or see the rpm that intake was designed for. That's part if the reason the throttle is lazy. Guys get carried away and wind up with a mismatch of parts that don't work together spending more time and money than they need to. Ask Uncle Tony. 😁
Agreed on intake. Bad choice for this. I showed vacuum reading in the video, it’s not great. 11 or so. I did ask Uncle Tony 😁 he said bad ring seal due to bore taper, and I think he’s right.
Idle smoothness depends on idle RPMs... 600 RPM lopey... 1100 RPMs which many seem to use now, makes idle sound smooth...
Beautiful car, absolutely love it. I totally agree on the center console and if it were mine I'd go back to 15" Cragars. 17s just don't look right, and I wish leveling the tach was on the list at least in the video that 5 should be in line with the body line of the dash but it's slightly lower. I love your videos, maybe one day I'll finally own a Mopar with a nice paint job like that
“It’s only a little on fire”
DYING 💀
That is another sweet ride. The color is awesome as well!
My uncle still owns his 66 Belvedere he bought new in 1966 in Oakland, California. In fact his neighbors ran the Melrose missile car that owned the Dodge Chrysler dealer in Oakland about 10 years ago. My uncle restored his Belvedere with the same British racing green, color he once had, originally had a 383 police package car manual. He decided to put a modern 6.1 hemi boarded out to a true 426….
You are clearly knowledgeable and entertaining. Keep doing what you are doing how you are doing it!
I wouldn't mind that center console in something from say the 80's or early 90's, but the aesthetic is just off for something from the 60's that is still fairly stock looking.
Agree, it would be at home in a hotrod D-50 with bucket seats and a hot 340 under the hood
Just found this video and enjoyed your ability and knowledge. Lived in WA for 16 yrs lastly in Port Ludlow. Currently driving a 71 tribute Roadrunner with a massaged 70 Challenger 383 and 4 speed. Had her 20 years but a sale might be in my future, my disability and small Govt monthly’s are making it tough… always loved the mid 60’s B-bodies but favorite has to be a 69 Coronet R/T. Anyway, I’m subscribed now and looking forward to more of your work.
Ah, dang, that’s unfortunate. Sounds like a cool car. My guy has always been the ‘68 Charger, but the Coronet has great lines, and I appreciate the ‘71+ B-bodies too. Thanks!
Beautiful car 👍 put gtx tips on it 👌
Another great tuning video. Thanks
When I was a kid a neighbor a couple of houses down had a 67' Satellite in that color, I have always been a fan.
Glad to see the 64 bel air again in the background... It's been a while. 😆
Someone needs to buy that too. Lol.
@21:20 mark: Jamie makes scared-girly sound when carb turns into flamethrower. 😄
I mean it was coming right at my face…
@@DeadDodgeGarage The BEARD! Must Protect the BEARD!
You should have heard him on the road trip back from Minnesota when a bird hit the window.
It was only a little on fire …
You've done a good job at tuning a high rpm engine for street cruising. tune the power valve to drop out sooner giving more fuel at lower rpm stabs as that engine combo doesn't wake up till 4-6k rpm which i doubt they will run it much with stock suspension... ask me how i know... too scary on suburban streets Thanks for the video!
That’s an A12 hood scoop. Beautiful car!
Riiight, that!
That car is neat! The color is really cool! I’m not a fan of the aggressive camshaft though, I’m more of a drivability guy, I prefer a nice idling and cruising engine than something with huge power. At our local car cruises/ shows, guys with ridiculous camshafts always have trouble keeping theirs cars running.
I completely agree!
Thank You for sharing 😊 with us
Yeah that console and trophy truck shifter need to go, along with those exhaust tips. I don’t need everything to be “factory correct” but that stuff was just an ugly smudge on that otherwise beautiful old Plymouth!
Absolutely gorgeous cruiser
Love your channel, Jamie! I'm worried that engines oil is diluted from running rich, and no Pcv. Also, that 400 seems poochy. Is it stock compression? That wouldn't pair will with a purple shaft. Does it have decent valvesprings? That might explain the low rpm. Just spitballing here. Keep doing what you're doing!
I gave the oil a sniff and it wasn’t too fuely, somehow. I know nothing about engine mechanicals beyond what I shared in the video. We have no records and no one left alive to ask.
Hi Jamie, if the cam is advanced, that would favor bottom end torque, not top end horsepower, Nice car and Great Video!
Correct...
Gorgeous car, but I'm prejudiced. I drove an unmolested, dark teal, 66,000 original mile '66 Belvedere two door hardtop in the 1980's. Nothing special under the hood. It had the 273 and the Torqueflite and drove like a dream. The 100% original interior was perfect and the car was completely rust free with no factory undercoating. The floor pan was the same color as the top side and almost as shiny. It was my daily driver for four years until I rolled it over and totaled it avoiding some squirrel on the interstate who cut me off. Wow, do I ever miss that car!
Always enjoy your videos and usually learn something new each time, but I have one question. Isn't the location of a plastic fuel filter directly over the distributor a little sketchy? Wouldn't relocating it to less fire-prone area or at least replacing it with a metal one be prudent? Cheers and gears from the opposite end of the continent.
It’s not that that’s a bad idea, it’s more that I would be more worried about the rubber sections of line than the plastic filter. It’s amazing how many big blocks are running around with a filter in that location. I choose not to worry about it.
A few months ago I had one of those braided fuel lines that was starving the engine for fuel under moderate to heavy loads. may be worth looking at.
That’s good times. I’ll keep that in mind.
Didn’t uncle Tony have one that collapsed and was blocking fuel flow?
I agree on the cam. Got a purple shaft in my 440. Needs a low gear to get in the power band. That car seems high geared. Beautiful 66.
Hi Jamie - here’s a thought.. my 66 Coronet has a swapped in 383, unknown purple cam, 750 Eddy, single plane intake, MSD… kind of the same “throw parts at it” silliness from the PO. Same issues when I got it, kind of. Idle screws didn’t do much, plugs always looked rich, smelled at idle etc. What I eventually arrived at was about 12* of initial, 14* mechanical plus some ported vacuum advance. Then I added an idle air bleed valve by taking a Y fitting from the PCV pipe and using a plumbing type shut off valve so I could balance the air (with a small air filter - I want to take it to the main air filter some day). A little extra air through the bleed and it starts right up, the choke works, the idle screws work, it’s snappy and revs all the way to scary. I used the air bleed to get the idle to where I wanted it, leaving the timing at that 12* and the idle air ports set to square(ish). The other thing is that the MSD can take a pretty large plug gap, that made a tiny difference.
The owner had just done the plugs, and I had a lot of time in the project and needed to move on, so I advised that he pull the plugs and open up the gaps. I am familiar with the air bleed technique, but have never actually employed it myself. I am using extra advance at idle to achieve a similar result, and there is extra low RPM power to be had there as well. But I know what you describe works to solve big cam idling problems. The issues I had with this one are well beyond idle, so I would need to look elsewhere.
Beautiful car. And great video. Makes me second guess my timing in my 67 Dart. At idle runs great! But in gear wants to die after a 30 seconds at idle. I noticed lately some sluggish throttle response. I went throught the motor about 6 years ago. And I know it's time to tune the carb again. I do have that same timing light. Guess that's what I'll be doing this weekend.
Beautiful car; I think that's the color (or really close) that I once saw on a pristine '69 Imperial with white vinyl top and white interior that I still crave.
Cars like that are the ones that challenge my normal preference for '69 - '72 Fuselage cars...
I wish all of the old classic cars were pampered as well as this one has been. This car is immaculate! But I’m like Jamie, while the console is well done it is out of place in such an original car.
Hi Jamie I totally agree with you on the unnecessary fuel pressure regulator with a stock pump. However, I found an exception which involves Weber carburetors. My little Fiat's aftermarket Carter fuel pump puts out a whomping 8 psi and according to the Weber guys they only can handle a max of 3.5 psi. So I run a fuel pressure regulator but utilized an existing stud on the fender well. Beautiful car and also like the color.
I have heard the Weber is super picky too. I think most kits come with that goofy hand adjusted regular.
Iron heads? Maybe the giant cam isn't happy on the bottom end, and the heads don't flow enough to make it happy up top? Definitely odd.
That’s my theory also.
440 Magnum came out in '67... '66 440 was a torquey, slow revving engine for giant luxury cars... over rated as to HP...
@@buzzwaldron6195 applicable if it were a stock engine, but it's clearly not.
@@rennkafer13 - Just some add ons?
@@buzzwaldron6195 Well Jamie suspects it to be a stroker, and it clearly has a big cam. Which was kind of my point. Engines (and much else on automobiles) are a system. You can't mess with one part of it without affecting the rest. So when you're building one, you have to consider all the parts. So in this case, let's say it is a stroker with a big cam... and then you slap on some stock heads because you spent all your money on the stroker kit. Probably not going to work too well.
What a gorgrous car. That color is spectacular and the oversized cragars look great. Not a fan of the cd player and tach location. But the center console isn't the worst in my opinion. I had a 2 door 66 Belvedere II in high school. Poly 318, auto trans, red with a white vinyl top, dual flowmaster exhaust and polished torque thrust wheels. One of the best Chrysler cars I've owned. I miss that one.
Lovely, lovely piece of automotive art.
Beautiful.
Stunning Car 👍 I could be wrong but I think they put the radio Antenna on the back so that it wouldn't pick up interference from the distributor.
Good idea
@@dinadaughtry8993that was stock on 66
My cousin has a 66 Belvedere II and his radio antenna is also in that spot. He swears it’s wrong, your comment supports the case that this wasn’t a mistake.
@@natejones963 I believe it and it was a good idea,i had a lot of older cars and trucks with points distributers and the radio would pick up the noise from the ignition system and was quite an annoying especially when listening to the AM band but it would effect FM and the tape player
Just took a look at photos I have of the '66 Belvedere II I drove in the 1980's. It was an unmolested 66,000 original mile California car and had the radio antenna on the passenger side front fender. Maybe the rear fender placement was a mid-year change or something like that.
Beautiful car & color! This is the best kind of video for me! I'm trying to learn, and this fills the bill. You find issues and then show how to correct them. I've seen UTG weld the distributor, and now you. I don't understand what makes that necessary. What was changed that made the factory advance too much? Jamie, I'm not a mechanic, and I'm certainly not questioning your work. I just don't understand.
The camshaft! Just about every single muscle era engine that you’ll come across has been rebuilt with a more aggressive camshaft. Especially the gnarly ones that sound like the intro to Hot For Teacher or whatever. The factory advance curves were also designed for smooth idling, fuel economy and emission control purposes. In some cases, they had like 30+ degree advance curves and were timed at zero degrees base. No performance engine is going to idle well with zero degrees of base timing, or even 10 in many cases. When I’m dealing with relatively stock engines at the resto shop, stock curves can work. But many have ridiculous cams that necessitate a tighter advance curve.
@DeadDodgeGarage thank you very much for the explanation! I got it now!
Great video Jamie!
I have had very good luck with building a low-key street tuned engine aimed at the “Idle to 5K” range. Sensible cam, dual-plane intake, 600 cfm vacuum secondaries, headers. You’ll get great throttle response and drivability on the street and since it’s not a race car, that’s all you need.
And if they had asked me to spec this package, that’s what they would have gotten.
Love the Cragar mags 😊, as for the exhaust tips I always called them Flat Duo Jets 😊
Hey, that’s a great band!
@@DeadDodgeGarage From the 90s 😀
It's unbelvederable how gorgeous this car is.
Hmm, my initial thought was needs light springs in the distributor or even just 1 spring if it pulled the weight in good enough, After all the work it sounded almost perfect but the sound, The sound tells me it might need 2.7 degrees more advance just enough to keep it under 38 total but i have never owned a timing light so i could be wrong lol, love what you do, its fun and its what i do for fun too lol cheers, oh if it gets heat soaked try wood around the fuel line we know that works tee hee
Amazing car! Oh, and good video too.
Beautiful Belvedere. Regarding fuel pressure regulator and mechanical pumps. You’re 100% correct, a stock mechanical pump shouldn’t require a regulator…but, I have seen a few stock mechanical pumps deliver around 10 psi out of the box. Way too much for the finicky floats in an edlebrock and 10 psi will blow past most Holley floats as well. A regulator is not the fix for a mechanical pump that has too much output….a new mechanical pump is the fix. Unfortunately, most aftermarket parts are made off shore and quality control is 💩. You get what ya get these days. Return what isn’t right and hope the next one works better. Seems to be running pretty good with the extra timing. I have found big mopars like lots of timing. Surprised the vacuum advance didn’t help much. Maybe seemed a little under powered on hard pulls..hard to tell for sure just by sound. Question about the carb, is there are power valve on the secondary? Power valve on the secondary will usually need the same size jets on primary and secondary. No secondary power valve, it will need a lot more secondary jet.
I was wrong, after I drove it with vacuum it was distinctly different and I reconnected it. Haha. No, there is no secondary power valve. I was curious about the sizing of the primary - or if it could be blown. Didn’t end up going there on this trip.
@@DeadDodgeGarage the plugs were nasty when you started, obviously fuel fouled. Curious if they cleaned up as the exhaust cleared up. Lack of timing was leaving a lot of unburned fuel in the combustion chamber. If you get another whack at tuning, increase jetting on at least the secondary now that timing is dialed. Thanks for taking us along.
Probably need the mechanical advance with the limiting plate because of lost vacuum due to the bigger cam and the big block Mopars that have a bigger cam than stock do seem to be happier with 34-36 degrees of timing
@@dinadaughtry8993
He welded the slot in the advance mechanism to limit the amount of advance in the distributor. Total timing will probably be best at 38-40°.
@@mickangio16 I seen that but they make a plate that you can adjust the total timing (he mentioned it) and then you can set the timing to like 35-36 degrees for idle and then the mechanical advance will will still let it advance but you can adjust how much by the size slot you pick if the vacuum doesn't have enough to make the vacuum advance work, it is just another way to get the vacuum the engine wants when it needs it for cams with low vacuum, he did a great job with what he had, like he said it could use some new rings and better heads with springs to match, did great with an engine that probably had a little to big cam for the rest of the components, really challenging to tune an engine that probably had a lot of miles and not perfectly matched parts, he definitely knows how to troubleshoot those ole Mopars
Yup...it's a nice color on a nice car...good content and thanks...🔧🔧🐐👍
BRO!!! I love the belva!!! Demon!!! Love the tail light in these 💯🤘🏻🤘🏻⚡🎵🎶
That car will break a lot of hearts
I think it needs a little more timing at high rpm. Grind off some of that weld 👍 also, make sure the MSD box isnt limiting.
I don’t need to grind the weld to twist the distributor. I tested more timing. It isn’t. As explained, it free revs fine.
That is a really nice car, Good job on the tune. It would look better if it were green though 🙂 Regards from Ody Slim
Well....hmmmm....I don't like it not having a PCV valve. As far as the bit of oil smoke, you may have washed the rings down a bit by flooding it while adjusting that throttle cable, and that cleared itself. Maybe it could use some thicker oil? Or maybe the oil is just kinda old and thinned out from excess fuel. That kickdown would annoy me, being so hard to get. That valley pan seal needs to be addressed, as well as the valve cover gaskets. I really would like to have the temp more in the 180 range, so yeah it needs a mechanical fan or a good dual electric setup with a proper shroud. Why do you figure the fuel supply issue seemed to get better? Ah, the mysteries of modified stuff....especially when you don't know what the mods really were/are. Certainly a sweet ride, and DEFINITELY running lots better! Nice job, Jamie. Love your vids, man. Stay cool, and rock on!
Don’t look at me, It smoked and had excessive blow by when it arrived… agreed on PCV valve, as I discussed. Oil was not fuely, I checked but did not show that on camera. Agreed on the rest of the points. I changed the fuel pump, the diaphragm in that old performance pump was cracked. Also that pressure regulator leaked. Somewhere between those two changes it got better. Thank you!
Fantastic color, I had a 66 383 Charger that color, but it didn't look as good as that!
I live @ mile high altitude and tuning is a low vacuum PITA. That car would be a nightmare here. My first delete for this car: get rid of that single plane intake asap for a any good dual plane. Sooo much better low RPM response and easier to tune, just me...........
I completely, completely agree.
That Belvedere is awesome 😎! Put a 650 vacuum secondary carburetor on it!😊
Way many Gremlins! I'd recommend switching out that huge 10,000 RPM Tach. for a 5000 so that...
Right before you said, "A carb spacer tapped for a vacuum fitting", that's what I was thinking... Any chance there's some kind of rev limiter or timing shenanigans in the MSD box messing with things?
Negative. It will free rev fine, the issues only crop up under load. I think it’s ring seal related. By the end of the video it was certainly running better, revving more happily, and smoking less.
@@DeadDodgeGarage The more I think about it, the more I think you're correct. Long time ago friend with a 351w Mustang was doing sort of the same thing with an engine that was supposedly rebuilt before he bought the car. Idle and Free rev okay, under load it just kinda fell on its face past 4k. Machine shop said it had a good cross hatch, but after tear down turned out the bores were really tapered & inconsistent. was around the same time dingle ball hones were getting popular. Ended up needing an overbore & new pistons, honed with a traditional 3 stone hone, ran great after that.
Beautiful Cranberry paint color on it.
My friend in high school ('87-'91) had a SUPER NICE white Belvedere with a 440.....rich kid....
It’s a beautiful Belvedere like absolutely beautiful I have a friend with a 66 coronet 440 convertible mint but it’s baby blue but it’s his car so he like the really light blue but this one is one of the best looking like the six pack hood scoop rather then the wider. Hemi scoop beautiful
I totally agree on the electric fan thing...... real drivers need a good mechanical fan with a proper shroud. I spent a lot of time and money over the years messing with electrics, and I know which applications they work fine for..... And which they don't !!!
Did you test the compression? Thats a lot of blow-by and no pinging despite all that timing.
No, and in this case - for once - I actually should have. I can tell you that the cranking compression was relatively even, and generally speaking that’s as far as I go with that. I have a feeling that a compression test may not have revealed the issue here - but that’s another story.
13:31 The performance aftermarket has been selling insulators with the little bolts like that for decades. They supposedly keep the rubber from separating even though they did separate on the one in the video.
Interesting. I have somehow made it this far in the hobby without ever seeing one.
@@DeadDodgeGarage All the magazines that advertised them folded already! I will see if I can find one in an old one. I never throw Mopar literature away.
Very nice Belvedere, but I agree, the center console just doesn't look right in that car. The good old stock console with the stock shifter would do it justice. Also, I think a Thermoquad carb would improve how it runs, although it sounds pretty good as is.
That mail truck cut in 😜
It’s the little things. Haha.
We all need a little more hood scoop in our life……thinking about putting one on my washing machine 🤣
🤣
Hay Jaime, good work, trouble shooting these things is a art for sure.
I'm not sure if you really want to address this,but I'm wondering if you have installed,(or worked on, an engine with an auto transmission), with a 1" carb spacer, with the stock manifold (340 in my case), and stock kickdown linkage, bracket, & throttle cable?
I'm in NE TN now (& it's hot), I was thinking of trying to cure what seems to be a "heat soak" issue I seem to be having. By installing a wooden 1" spacer. BUT fear it will screw up the geometry of it all causing throttle, & kick down issues.
In my head, it seem like to add a spacer , the bracket needs to be raised (or modified), & the rod down to the trans needs to be lengthened, (or 1" longer one needs to be made).
Please share if you've experienced/seen the best way to add a carb spacer to/with stock type kickdown linkage with success.
Thank you Sir, rock on!
You might consider a shorter spacer. An inch is a lot, and it will definitely cause you some problems. You would probably only need to modify the top section of the kickdown linkage, unless you have the later one piece style. With that, it’s simple enough to modify / extend that flat throttle attachment section. I have bent the cable mount section of the throttle hold down bracket upward / vertical to help in these sorts of situations many times. There are other ways of dealing with it, but that’s easy and free.
I probably need to put a spacer on my Charger. It has a pretty pronounced heat soak issue, but I have been living with it for two years now and I’m used to it.
Ok, thanks Jaime, I'll do more research and see if I can find a 1/2" spacer. I was thinking 1" would do a better job, but it does create more problems.
Al Scheib, yes relative to the infamous Earl Scheib had a highly modified '57 Plymouth Fury pro street type build in a very similar color. As most Mopar folk should know the 56-58 Plymouth "golden" Fury cars were all exclusive special cars built in off white to beige in the first three years and ONLY offered in those colors so Al's car is quite the stand out. Nice color!
Yes, well aware. That’s why Christine is so special. Haha. But I didn’t know about the car you’re talking about.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Well.. to me christine is anything but special. Fantasy land does have its icons.. but the real golden Fury cars ARE very special.
I thought Christeen was special because it was immortal and would take care of your enemies
@@dinadaughtry8993 in fantasy land..
You should keep that interior and console especially. The work is done well at least on video and some Mopar guy really put the work in to make it nice
They did a fine job, but unfortunately there is no accounting for taste.
Nice. Love the color
I have a near stock 440 with a mechanical fuel pump from NAPA. Without a pressure regulator, it ran rich as hell. Much better now. I know, it sounds weird, but there is no doubt that the regulator fixed it.
That’s really interesting. Have you been able to put a gauge on it and get a pressure number? I would be very curious to know what it says with the regulator open.
@@DeadDodgeGarage It would not have been difficult to do that, as the regulator offers a third port, but I wanted to spend as little $ as possible and get the car back on the road..
Here is more detail. This is a 68 Imperial LeBaron with a rebuilt engine from long time before I had it. The engine is a 69 with what seems to be a mild cam, about the same specs as the HP cam, and a nice sounding dual exhaust. The thing runs good with plenty of torque and hp. The intake manifold is from a later 440 with the thermo quad, and now has a Q-jet installed (same bolt pattern). The car would occasionally run rich at idle, black smoke and all. I replaced the needle and seat with the help of a friend (hard for me to assemble the Q-jet) and no difference. I attempted to lower the float by myself, and in the process I ruined the central gasket. The rebuilt kits were expensive, so I bought instead a new Q-jet (China job for $170). This carburetor was running very rich, to the point where I could not drive the car. That was when I suspected that the fuel pressure is the issue. The regulator eliminated the problem right away. In fact, the car is running a bit lean at idle now. The power is still all there.
I also thought about this car running out of power at high rpm. I think your problem in that purple Dodge is fuel starvation. I have another 440 in also an Imperial. This has a larger cam, Comp cams 268 .474 lift. An 800 cfm Rochester on top (yes, I am adicted to these things). Plus an aluminum intake, but the rest stock. This runs real good, lots of torque to move the heavy car, lot's of power to haul serious ass on the interstate. But, the oversize mechanical pump cannot keep up. I have a fuel gage inside the car, and you can watch the pressure drop. It depends on the ambient temperature, but usually above 4000 and the pressure starts dropping. No, the fuel line is not the problem. I had to add booster electric pumps on the back, and I turn them on when I am about to haul ass. Sometimes I forget the pumps on after I stopped hauling ass, yet the Q-jet does not flood despite 10 psi+ indicated. I do not know how accurate that cheap gage is, however.
I also have old Volvos. I had the same issue with one of these, the fuel pump was putting too much pressure, and a regulator fixed the issue. But the SU's can only handle up to 2.5 psi. Still, it was the original fuel pump.
Does not take long running rich to destroy rings and cylinder walls, also You didn't check the power valve size once you had a vacuum reading. Have a four-corner idle holly double pumper, easy to adjust on my low compression 400 with a comp cam 501 lift, not too much cam, there seems to be something strange going on with that 400, thinking you may have to tear it down to find out, also it should have a fuel return line to prevent vapor locking. My 67 Satellite 426 Hemi had the antenna on the left rear fender, my 67 GTX on the right front fender and the same for both of my 66 Satellites one of which I still own. The 400's had cast cranks unless they came out of a truck or ram charger. Someone made the comment that the fuel problem could be the fuel line, sometimes they will have a loose piece flapping around inside, I would replace all the rubber lines just to eliminate that possibility.
Rubber hoses are new. No, I had no interest in cracking the seal on his brand new double pumper. It’s whatever came in it out of the box - probably 6.5, which could be sized down to 5.5. There is a chance it’s blown thanks to backfire, if the blowout protection / check ball didn’t do its job… but that’s another story.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Lets see 11/2 equals 5.5 + 1 equals 6.5 which is the correct size for the power valve, I'd maybe go with a 7.0. If the power valve was blown, then the gas would just be pouring into the carb. Is it possible the floats are set to high? Seems like it is running out of gas which would limit the RPM's, those small fuel lines on the none hemi cars were a problem also the reason the 383's would out top end the 440's as they would starve for fuel on top end other things like tranny and rear gears being equal. I would put a fuel pressure gauge in the car and watch it to see what is happening, just a thought. Seems like there is always some stupid little thing to frustrate one when sorting out someone else's half-baked project. Have fun.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Just occurred to me that if you cannot adjust the idle mixture screws and it remains rich then most likely your throttle plates are above the idle ports and you are running off the off-idle or transition slots, so what you have to do to get the throttle plates down where they belong is enlarge the bleed holes in the throttle plates if they exist or establish them so that you can close the throttle plates to where they are below the transition slots. My 750 Holly double pumper w/four corner idle came with the holes but I had to enlarge them, however mine was a carburetor shop modified unit. Have fun, been down the road you are on more than once.
Mr. Belvedere + hood scoop = hemi?
Oops! Not this time.
Beautiful car. Maybe my favorite Mopar.
That brandywine is beautiful for sure and works on that car. I don't like the cam at all not at all. However it needs a good run to clean out that motor like you said and it could improve. The tall intake will live very happy at 4500 and up and may be why it's kinda poochy but it did break the tires loose in one test run. Tend to agree with the radiator and fan thing. I would throw both in the dumpster and get that heat down to 180 tops. Pusher fans don't work. Ask me how I know 😂 had one on the blown 440 and it went into nuclear meltdown when you shut it off and puked green stuff. Filled the puke tank and the ground. Like the first time I drank beer and wine😂 over all greatly improved and a classy ride for sure. Oh and I do like the consul but the shifter not so much. A simple b&m shifter that you and put in drive and go or pull it back and lap it for party mode. The car is a class act. ❤
Agreed on all points. I certainly did consider the poorly matched intake and carb, but would expect stuff to start happening in that higher rev range and it didn’t want to go there. I made every effort to re-seat the rings on my test drive and it showed a notable improvement by the time I got home. So I think that’s the trick. Get some more miles on it and reassess.
@DeadDodgeGarage I think miles are the key. It ran so rich for so long the cylinders are washed bad and it needs to be run. Long hwy miles at a constant speed. I bet a avs 2 would be a better carb too. That motor is not built for that carb. Be worth a try.
Another fine tweak job. Great stuff. And no...your charger does not need to be that color. And yes you're absolutely right. I am an engineer for a manufacturing company and we make the same stuff for many brand names. And you need one of them fire blankets I saw advertised on TV. They really work. That glove is gonna melt on your hand one day and F you up man.
I have a blanket, but it’s not exactly next to me. I didn’t use my hand to put it out, I blew it out. My instinct has never been to put my hand in an ongoing gasoline fire 😅 no, my ‘68 needs to be its stock darker red and I will be happy. My ‘66, I always wanted this color.
Sounds like too big of a cam with too little compression, compounded by the single plane intake and maybe the gears are too high? I remember my 440 Charger was a dog with a 230 @.050 cam and the 8:1 compression stock converter and 3.23 gears. Changed the converter to a 3000 stall and 3.91 gears and it made a huge difference. With only 11" of vacuum that cam seems to be quite a bit bigger than 230@.050, my 440 Charger had no issues with the power brakes as this car does, if I recall correctly it had 15-16" of vacuum.
My neighbor once evenly traded a rusted out stock 340 Demon 4 speed for a beautiful 71 440 auto Roadrunner with a 440 with a huge cam in it. The Roadrunner was a TOTAL dog, would not idle for crap, power brakes did not work, it could not get out of its own way, and the Demon, even though you could brake like Fred Flintstone and the gas tank was held by a piece of rope to the rear bumper as the trunk was no longer there, was a really fast good running car. We changed the cam to a Crane HMV278 with the correct springs and new timing chain, and that Roadrunner was a screamer, I mean the thing would lay rubber forever.
Oh yeah. There’s no doubt in my mind that the combination wasn’t well thought out and the cam is too big. My issue is that I have tuned many, many engines of a similar description that would at least sort of perform - and didn’t blow smoke out the tail pipes.
Cable sheathing flex is shortening throttle travel. Maybe one little bracket on the back of the cylinder head to hold it gets that missing 5%
@Jamie, seems like it has those low tension rings in it and the gear ratio I bet is freeway flyer gears like 3.23's or less. Purple Cams really aren't that big but that convertor would have been better as a 2500 not the 3000 it has. Holley carbs work best at 6-7psi but will run at up to 12 with a return style electric setup...barely and I know because I did it so that at launch that 12 settles into the 6-7 psi. I run electric for a few reasons, cooler fuel and without a pump running it makes it 300 feet without which kinda stops thieves.
Just a little nicer than my Belvedere lol. It doesnt have the Belvedere II emblems on the fenders. Those come in handy when i get asked what kind of car it is.