“She’s not a bicycle, not everybody needs a ride.” But I mean she does have those two big wheels… (I’ve been in a wheelchair since birth. I get to make this joke.)
Exactly. It would’ve been smarter had Jason slip the letter under her door. Or hell tape it well to her window (assuming her apparent isn’t on the 1st floor)
Also, Joker being revealed to have been an abusive husband pre-Joker has tons of implications on his relationship with Harley, most importantly: he likely did actually love her, which doesn’t excuse the abuse, but in fact makes it so much worse.
Him being abusive to women isn't that new tho and even predates Harley. In Going Sane he just straight up beats a council woman he kidnapped pretty badly (nothing is shown but his gloves are dripping with blood afterwards) because she didn't laugh at the old comedy movies he showed her.
1. In Killing Joke his wife loves and support him even though he's broke. 2. Wouldn't Joker look for his wife's body after hearing the news that she's dead. And of course the biggest of them all.... 3. In issue 2 where Joker is day dreaming about his family...why is he imagining them with the exact same look that we saw on issue #3 If he didn't know they're alive
@@louisconstantine8578 I haven't read the issue yet, is it confirmed that he doesn't know they're alive? He could've found out a long time ago, post-Joker, and just decided to leave them be. Even someone like Jack has to have a heart. Hell, depending on how much he opened up to Harley, maybe she's the one who convinced him to leave them be. After all, "she's the only one who's ever seen the Joker cry".
Sorry, wrong button. Where were we... Ah, yes. 2. He's not rational, he's insane. 3. See 1 In reality, abusers often do not see themselves or their victims as they really are. Their ability to rationalize can be quite uncanny.
"Barbara's history with Dick..." Considering how they have given her romantic interactions with all the Bat family, that phrase has a lot of meaning! 😏
I did wonder if the recent storylines about Dick Grayson losing his identity were a way to wean the readers off of the name "Dick" so he could be re-badged as "Rick" or something more modern and less laden with innuendo.
The Joker is far scarier when he’s doing horrible things just to amuse himself. Plus too much interconnection between characters back stories makes the DC ‘Universe’ feel like the DC ‘Suburb’, where we get the soap opera ‘He’s really your lost half brother’ corny story.
Still better then the overrated movie where he is suddenly Bane and starting a clown revolt for some strange reason. Just to shot a late talk show host!?!? I don't know sure I don't enjoy the JOKER being explained in that movie at all. Unless Johns seriously thought he was actually Jack Napier Although BATWOMAN and TITANS tv shows seemed to went to kill off the Joker really quickly and have Bruce Wayne leave behind Gotham City...... GOD just suck it up WB and get a proper BATMAN tv show on air again
I honestly think a lot of people missed that the Janitor that sweeps away the note is the Joker. Not only does joker know who each of them are, and is aware how he has each actively harmed them, and could if he ever wanted to go after them at any time shows how much he is willing to keep the pain going. Even with jason's offer to change being extreme it would signify a change to jason and that's something the Joker would never want seriously the janitors jumper is purple and the lettering is funtime cleaning or something in green
I’m I the only one whose tire of every Joker story being about the meta narrative of who he is and his relationship with Batman. I wanna see that relationship not just having the Joker explain it to me over and over again.
Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. I just want to see the Joker doing Joker stuff, they don't have to keeo repeating the same thing over and over again.
Best part of the video: "She's not a bicycle, not everyone needs a ride. " Just can't see Babs and Damien though. She's not a tricycle. He's way too young.
Yeah, actually. In fact, you could argue that killing them becomes incredibly ethical once this is introduced. "Joker" is just a very annoying zombie. He's basically a chemically-created Black Lantern, complete with twisting the original personality. If Jokers create more Jokers, Jokers are literally just a zombie plague. If there's no cure, "Joker" isn't mentally ill, he's actually basically a rabid animal with spite.
@@PosthumanHeresy Yet "ethical" does not equate to "possible." There are seriously loads of parodies making fun of "death" in comics, and this gave Joker the "actually a Doombot" card.
@@Bezaliel13 Oh entirely. The Joker's inability to die was already a meta joke because he just would never have it explained. They've put a "why" to it and also given a "why" to his multiple choice past and shifting personality. While the Clown and Criminal are dead, they were already dead in terms of a meta perspective. The Comedian is _The_ Joker. He didn't come first, but his chaos _is_ the definition of The Joker we have as our collective conceptualization of him. However, The Comedian's philosophical underpinnings didn't spawn fully formed from the aether. The Joker as a whole, all of them, are a representation of the formless nature of crime. The idea that anyone can be a Joker is the idea that "one bad day" can be all it takes to push someone over the edge. Every Joker has an origin, and so The Joker has no origin, but the main cultural idea of The Joker is the one whose origin is, to rip a quote from another franchise, "the evil that men do". It's only fitting that his origin is an abusive asshole rooted in self-justification, because _that was the point of The Killing Joke in the first place_ anyways. Not everyone breaks like him. Not everyone gives into their darkness because of their pain. The Comedian-Joker's plan here is to establish himself and Batman within one framework instead of having them be smeared across them. The Comedian Joker sees himself as Pure Evil, and needs Batman to be Pure Good to be his antithesis. To do that, he has to get Batman past the strain of darkness within him, his dead parents PTSD. The Joker is, in essence, pulling a Hannibal plan. His plan is to get Batman to fully forgive Joe Chill, allowing him to finally move past the death of his parents. Batman will be Batman because he must, but the "why" to the must is important. Batman is Batman because he must because of his trauma. The Joker wants Batman to be Batman because he must because he can, because The Joker is The Joker because he must because he can. Failed comedian, disfigured gangster, harmless clown, and so many other ideas for The Joker have been used at some time or another, and they're all valid. They all happened, just as the new DC whatever has done too and just like Grant Morrison used to do with Batman. The three main interpretations of The Joker have been the ones used here, but there's many little one-off Jokers over the years. That's what all the other attempts symbolize, the different strains of personality all the different interpretations of even the three main Jokers have spun off. The core idea however is that The Joker is Evil. If some people break and some don't, ala TKJ, what differentiates them? Some at their core are good people. Jokers come from those who are not. Each Joker's backstory is the strain of evil that they had before. The Criminal died off because the big organized criminal mastermind type isn't the "true" evil of the world, in that it isn't the root of evil. The Clown died off because the Silver Age as a whole died, and he's just not evil enough. The Comedian? The Comedian Joker is the true face of evil, and so he _is_ The Joker. What is his root strain of evil? He's just an abusive jackass. There's no grand plan, there's no deep pain despite what he claims, there's no deep philosophy. There's just a void where a man should be, long before he became The Joker. The Joker is just the excuse he needed to become his true self. It wasn't one bad day that made him The Joker, it was one bad day that allowed him to become The Joker. The Joker is evil. The root of evil is selfish cruelty, whether for instrumental purposes or just for cruelty's sake. That's why he gets to be the true Joker.
I enjoyed it and all, the character relationships most of all, but it certainly was a "Take it or Leave It" story, but I'm sure when it was announced and teased, people were expecting massive connotations to the Batman world.
Barbara had a 'thing' with Dick. She doesn't need to have a 'thing' with Jason, too. I like Barbara as a strong woman, who has overcome overwhelming odds to get to where she is. I don't need bike Barbara. Especially after the horror that was The Killing Joke movie. This ain't Twilight and Barbara doesn't strike me as that kind of girl. Leave the bedhopping to Hal Jordan and Matt Murdoch (sluts)! Also, I don't think it damages The Killing Joke (original). I always read the 'one bad day' thing as just the Joker's POV. Gordon kind of disproved it anyway.
Dude, yes! Ever since I learned about Nightwing Annual 2 where he slept with Babs when delivering the invite to his wedding with Kory, I’ve been on team BlueOracle.
I liked the "Comedian's" motive and that end scene between him and Batman was great but I wish we got to delve more time into the "Criminal" and "Clown". Also, the Joker identity reveal and Killing Joke retcon was something I could take or leave. Especially since if they were gonna do a reveal I would've preferred an origin for 1 of the other Jokers. Nevertheless, still a really good Bat-family comic I'd reccomend for the art alone. Just not one of the best Joker comics.
I always appreciate hearing your opinions, with so many fans being "NO IT HAS TO BE LIKE *THIS* " its refreshing to hear you say that any and all opinions on media can be vaild, cause we're all coming from different places🤷♂️
Ok, why? Why would Jason, who should be able to get in and out of most homes undetected (and definitely into an Ally's home). Why would he tape ANY message to a door!?!?🤦🏾♂️ Oh, because reasons🤷🏾♂️
He's trying to say "Boundaries are a thing and I can respect them! I'm doing so now because I care about you and I'm not Bruce." Yet all the reader can think about is "I Can Change" from the South Park movie, and it rings a little hollow.
Having three Jokers bothers me just a little. Nailing down The Killing Joke bothers me a bit more. Saying Bruce always knew the Joker's identity bothers me a LOT. I mean, that's just silly. There have been so many scenes, so many speeches, so many private thoughts.... Hell, he gave a whole lamentation to Alfred back in Death of the Family about how he didn't know who he is! What, he was just pretending all these years? To everyone? So why is he telling Alfred NOW??
There's one huge problem with the ending... If Batman always knew what the Joker's name was... *why did he even ask the Metron chair, leading to the reveal there were three?*
@@lanni5 nah, he asked that question. which had an obvious answer that everyone present knew the answer to. Then, he asked the follow up question, something only he knew (according to Johns at least, but its not outright ever contradicted in killing joke or Snyder's run which deal with this) to further confirm if the chair worked. Then he got the answer there are three. It was that way written to fool us, or of course it was retconned lol but I like giving writers the benefit of the doubt.
Your breakdown on the acts -- strong start, overly self-challenged middle, softball "meh" finish -- totally describes my feelings on Geoff John's bibliography.
Amen, Griffin! Testify! I have been so thoroughly let down by every long-form comic story by Geoff Johns I have read that I have stopped reading him entirely. This video's synopsis leads me to believe I don't need to read Three Jokers either.
@@jonathonriddle9922 maybe geoff has to split his time between comic book writer and show producer. I agree that the final act in his comics is way weaker than the beginning but it is enjoyable anyway. This comic feels like he just wanted to be done with it, he teased this story 4 years ago and it is now that he is giving it to us, something similar happened with doomsday clock, took almost 2 years to complete the damm story, so long that DC had time to hire bendis to shit all over superman and the legion of superheroes, a team that was meant to be back in that comic (and with way better designs than what we got thanks to bendis and the artist working with him). To sum it all up, he just takes too much time to write anything and maybe that's the reason the final material feels slightly ir sometimes radically different to what it was meant to be.
6:50 I prefer Chill as either a desperate mugger or a guy who panicked and fired his gun instinctively. It being a random crime with no big motive is better than "He was a hitman for gangsters or it was a conspiracy by some big bad organisation who wanted Thomas and Martha out of the way." Batman's heroic career being against crime itself rather than just trying to bring one particular criminal to justice fits better.
An episode of batman brave and the bold (a show designed mostly to show young superhero fans about more obscure characters) put more effort in their version of a joker-batman rivalry predecessor. In this one, all we get to know about the designer is he battled some unnamed detective and eventually won after locking himself up to think of a really complicated plan. So much about him is never elaborated on because he’s just a stupid plot device.
Did anyone take a closer look at the janitor that swept away Jason's note to Batgirl? Purple jumpsuit with "Funtime Cleaners" written on the back To me that was another good *LE GASP* moment
They did a whole lot just for us to end up back where we started. The only real revelation was that Batman is aware of Joker's name and Bruce seemingly forgiving Joe Chill.
@Edward John Maybe he wanted to see what answer it would give him. When it said there were three, Batman said, "That's impossible.'' In my opinion, he already knew who he was and what his name was.
Ehhh, I think that last bit is very important. The Comedian was right, and I love what he used the plan to do. The idea of "we need to get Batman _past_ 'MY PARENTS ARE DEAD'" is exceptionally correct. Batman needs to be Batman because he can't sit back and watch others suffer when he can do something if they want to be able to develop him as a character, not just "mentally ill manchild punches people".
The 'I always knew his name' thing just enraged me. It felt like DC saying, "Ha ha! We're never gonna tell you readers! But Batman knows, and always has! Too bad for you, suckers!"
The world's greatest detective couldn't tell there were three? They're even drawn to look physically different. I'm sure he collected blood, hair, skin, and possibly tooth samples off of his bat-gloves. There's no way the tissues could be identical or "inconclusive."
I can't wait for the sequel, The Three Robins, where we learn what Dick, Tim, and Damian got up to while this part of the BatFam was busy with the Joker(s).
It never made sense that Batman, the world's greatest detective, didn't know who the Joker really was. I like that this story shows us why he's never revealed it. Also, The Killing Joke has to be canon because that's how Barbara became Oracle.
This although not in the same continuity, follows the recent Batman reworking. He's no longer a billionaire, doesn't have Alfred so he relies on his Batfamily again, by forgiving Joe Chill he's no longer bound for vengeance but justice.
Take my favorite version of the joker is some variation of Jack Napier, a crazy gangster who was Catalyzed by Batman/chemicals like you don’t get to know much about ledger as joker, but you could say that he was Jack Napier, that he was some sort criminal who became the joker
The epilogue with Jeannie and son contradict cannon set up in Pushback (from Batman: Gotham Knights - particularly issue 54) wherein it is revealed that a corrupt cop killed her since Jack botched the robbery job...all witnessed by Edward Nigma.
Pre-Crisis Commissioner Gordon learned that Barbara was Batgirl fairly early. At one point he and Batman were actually at odds on whether Batgirl should retire.
Firstly, Jason Fabok did an awesome job with art, perfection. Sorry for incoming rant. These books were good batman, batgirl, and red hood story. HOWEVER, this was a horrible Joker story where nothing was explored, nothing was delivered, and have the "the comedian" contradict and retcon The Killing Joker. WTF is that? This book should've been longer with three more issues with exploring all three jokers, their history and motives.
@@CasuallyComics i disagree, the joker along with harley quinn is the most popular and most profitable DC characters. Any story no matter how long or short there is always an appetite for it.
@@MrVenom626 they are oversaturating the market with Joker. City of Bane was actually welcome for me because as great as Joker is, he has been around seemingly at every turn. If not him, the hybrid Joker/Batman that is BWL. Joker should be used more sparingly to make sure his character not stale. They are basically using him the same way one way or another every time he shows up. That will kill those profits you mentioned at some point.
That Geoff Johns now apparently believes he's a writer in league with Moore is hysterical. He's always gotten his best ideas from people posting on message boards, and he can never actually follow through. Also, the sexism in comics is so tiresome.
Babs before: genius librarian with a PHD and self-made vigilante turned tech genius and immensely powerful information broker the entire DC universe relies on Babs since the new 52: being tossed around as a love interest between every single batboy and having her history and entire character undermined or removed Justice for Babs, please.
I definitely think that if this book came out closer to when it was announced, or if it just had a smaller announcement and they didn't promote it in the way that it was then I think people would like it more, but after waiting so long for it to come out and it was just a "That was it?" reaction for a lot of people isn't going to help it be remembered in the long run. Personally I really dislike the additions they added to The Killing Joke as I prefer the aspect of this was just an unfortunate man who had a bad day over being an abuser and having his family still alive. Then there is the whole Barbara and Jason thing which was... interesting. I really don't by them as a couple and agree with what other people said about her being every Batboys girlfriend is annoying, but I do like the idea of them bonding over a shared pain, though they could have done this with maybe just a platonic friendship route. How it is now the romance between the two isn't that fleshed out and I personally feel that it takes up time from the rest of the comic. I have more thoughts on it but I think I am going to stop here
I like your idea about Batman/Bruce having overcome his orphan trauma by creating his own family. I've always been kind of puzzled by how we get from the big, angry, brooding loner of Year One to the mentor, father figure, and team player of later continuity. Emotionally, I see how it makes sense that the guy tackling muggers yelling "I am the night!" is going to need to find a tribe before he ends up dead or locked away somewhere. ;) But seriously, I didn't mind -- in fact, I was moved by -- Bruce's final scene with Chill. I'm not sure that I've seen this exchange done so well, before. Plus, it led me to your interpretation of the Batman Family, which really works.
I love how in the Batman Hush comic Catwoman lampshades Batman being surrounded by loved ones despite being a “loner”. “For a loner, you sure do have a lot of strings.”
Makes me also think of Harley Quinn's "Joker Loves Harley" story arc, where Joker returns and tries to get back together with her and she falls under his spell and kisses him, but she immediately knows as only she can... He's not the Joker, he's an imposter. Turns out Joker did basically the same thing he did here, created a new Joker, only this one wasn't to troll Batman, it was to troll Harley. He's all laughing, saying that she's never really been a killer, she won't kill anyone now without his order, especially not him... and she blows his brains out. It's actually one of my favorite of Harley's arcs because it shows how while a part of her will always love the Joker, she truly is done with him.
I feel like this entire story attempts to resolve the reveal that there is/was 3 Jokers. Which if I remember correctly was the response the Mobius chair gave Batman to the question of who is the Joker. Which if Batman knows where the Joker's family is living peacefully in Alaska should indicate he already knows who the Joker was. So why ask the question in the first place. Oh DC, tie up one plot thread while opening up five others
It was the worst. It made no sense, it was forced and out of character. Also it was pretty toxic "I will stop being a killer but only if you date me even if you told me you're not interested in me so the responsibility is on you" 🤢
@@BigBadWolframio It makes sense based on shared trauma, but given that Babs has already been with two members of the Batfamily in the comics, and Tim & Bruce in other forms of media, I think it’s just tiresome seeing her get passed around the Batfamily
There was precedent to that sort of thing in Batman Eternal, but last time Jason rejected her. Either way, kinda weird. That I could leave on the cutting room floor
@@vshazam He asks who his parent's killer is, and it was Joe Chill which he knew and acknowledges that he knows it, that's public record, not really impressive considering the power of the Morbius chair, then he asks who the Joker is because only he knows who he is and if the Morbius Chair knows who the Joker's name is then it is more than a faster search engine and an actual universal knowledge chair... Then it tells Bruce "Which one?"
he knew who one of the jokers was, but the info the chair gave him major doubt on witch joker it was that he knew, and wather or not he was even right about the first one
I agree with a lot of the points you brought up about in this video I have to say the whole Barbara Jason shipping thing indifferent to the ending we got was the ending I was afraid we were going to get but I wasn't sure if they were able to pull off what they were trying to promise they were going to pull off but I enjoyed it overall. Awesome video as always by the way! 👍👍
The one thing that bothered me was that Batman has known all this time who the Joker is; why did he bother to ask the Mobile Chair who the Joker is? Unless he was looking for confirmation of his supposition, which would have explained his reaction when the chair said there are three. It would have been nice if this series had addresses Bats' encounter with the Mobile chair, though.
I know in the comics he did it to Harley, but I'm not a big fan of pre-Joker being an abuser. Maybe he had some habits or friends that his wife didn't agree with, like in Mask of the Phantasm, where it's revealed that he worked for the Valestra mob, but maybe he thought of himself as a decent man just trying to support his family and only came to terms with and stopped fighting the monster he had the potential to become after he thought his wife and kid died and he took the chemical bath. Joker becoming a monster after the chemical bath, not before, would support his "one bad day" monologue.
I’m in the camp that between canon ( Dick & now Jason), Batman Adventures ( Dick & Bruce) , & one of the games ( Tim) They are doing the Barbara character a disservice by putting her in relationships with all of the male Wayne’s heirs except Damon…NOT FEELING IT
For me, it's weird that they tried a Jason/Babs romance. I mean I have never viewed Batgirl as a daughter to Batman, so I never had a problem with Dick and Barbara being an item. However, I do view both Dick and Jason as sons of Batman. I mean he did take them in a wards after all. So, it's kinda weird that Jason would be going after his "brother's" ex like that.
Even in this story it felt like they were siblings, so hinting a possibly pairing them up because they have both experienced a similar trauma is kind of gross. Love the story overall, but I really could have done without that tacked on romance element
@@calumhouston3308the story literally has Barbara reject him three times in the story. So it was never going to be romance, it was a vulnerable moment between two ppl that shares the same trauma, one healed good and the other didn’t. It’s that attachment that created that scene.
I don't like the tweek to the killing joke, it kinda makes the whole anyone can go bad from one bad day a little weaker, because now he was already kinda bad, it resonates more with me personally with him being a failed comedian who made a deal with the mob to help his wife, makes his downfall into madness morec tragic
True, but the point of The Killing Joke is that Joker is ultimately wrong about the one bad day theory. That doesn't mean that there is no tragedy to Joker. There is, but we do not need to have such an extreme as he was once a average joe failure but fundamentally kind character who had series of unfortunate events and turned into an evil supervillain. This type of narrative is often sold as bring deep and layered, but it's actually not really. Yes, it's good to humanize villains because it shows that the potential for darkness which reaches it's perfection in them resides in everyone, but that narrative of good and naive to a fault to incredible evil is actually pretty simplistic. The more accurate narrative would be to humanize a character who has always been antisocial and bad, but experienced trauma and became even worse. The tragic comedian origin has a lot of pathos and relatability because he is more normal to begin with, but that is more to do with making it easier for the audience to sympathise than anything else. So, I actually prefer a Joker who has always been criminal before becoming the Joker, but not high ranking criminal (so not the enforcer/hitman Jack Napier origin Batman 1989 or BTAS). I know some prefer the more dramatic transformation though, but there's no reason you couldn't do that with Joker being a shady guy before. It is not necessary to lay it on thick with making his former self as sad as possible (which is what TKJ origin and Joker 2019 do). So, a more morally grey version of the failed comedian origin would be most welcome to me; just emphasise the criminal aspect a bit more and tone down the failed comedian loser/dead wife part. I do think TKJ is over referenced at this point tbh and that's why the reveal at the end of Three Jokers was underwhelming. Because it's like, oh The Killing Joke Joker is the one true Joker? Snooze. Nothing surprising.I like Three Jokers a lot, but that aspect was a let down, plus as it dismisses golden age Joker and Bronze age Joker even though the latter has some of the most iconic Joker stories, and golden age Joker is the one I wanted to see more of. Especially as 40s Joker stories are not in fact that sullen - he still had a lot of the maniacal energy.
My take is simply this "I knew one week after..." - meaning Batman is the World's Greatest Detective. But there have been THREE Jokers facing the family and he had no clue. The story really didn't address this oversight. Either Batman is or is not a Detective. Either he's got it cold - or he's just making all of this up as he goes along. I need closure now that I didn't need before this story. That is the real disappointment of the end result...again for me.
I honestly liked it. If they had given even a single answer more, everyone would hate it so much harder. Leaving the other two as undefined entirely is brilliant because it doesn't ruin the Joker's multiple choice, unknown backstory despite giving the surviving Joker the defined one from The Killing Joke. I think blending the exact opposite interpretations of The Joker from noted warlocks who hate each other Alan Moore and Grant Morrison is a pretty impressive feat. I also like who they kept alive (honestly I think of him/read him as the Hamill Joker), Batman's reasons, and especially the Joker's motive. Healing Batman's "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD!" trauma with fucking closure just to make senpai notice him? That's incredible. I am here for "Joker goes above and beyond in insane sadistic schemes to get Batman to notice and care about him". As for Jason and Barbara, just because a character is problematic doesn't mean that the writing is problematic. Barbara is presented as the correct path for dealing with trauma, with Jason as the dark reflection. Barbara got help. Jason is wowed by the concept of therapy in book form. Barbara knows it's a trauma bond. Jason is not aware his feelings are a trauma bond. The writing, to me, makes that pretty clear. Jason's just beginning to process his trauma and Barbara was there for him, saw him at his most vulnerable, protected him, took him in when Bruce had (in his eyes) abandoned him, and walked in on him after a shower. So, of course this is how he reacted. Also, the ending twist is that the Joker is just an abusive douchebag. I kinda like that extra meta level. I don't think the story was anti-defined. It went both ways at once. But this Joker being an abusive ass who uses his problems as a reason to hurt others? Yes. I get why it removes the "one bad day" thing, but I really like the meta commentary on the Joker fandom here. To me, she's the original Harley Quinn, before even Harley Quinn. The patient zero of The Joker's abusive manipulative bullshit. One bad day drove him from a normal jackass to a supervillain, but he was already a jackass. It's a rejection of his worldview, but it also leaves the Criminal and Clown as entirely undefined beings just like the other viewpoint of the Joker. All we have is ages and a vague backstory for the Criminal as an old Gotham criminal, and with the Clown he seems to be only a decade or so older than the Comedian. The Criminal predates the modern views on the Joker, so that makes sense. He's vague by accident. The Clown is the pre-modern Joker and as such he gets to be the Undefined Joker. He dies, yes, but he exists up to this story. Though, as much as it would have been a little too fourth wall breaking, I wish the Clown said boner. Batman's emotions, I generally feel like he shuts them down under too much pressure. It's his trauma response. He just goes emotionally numb when shit hits the fan. The better Batman's mental health, the more emotions he has.
@The White Witch Oh sure, I'd agree they could have the potential. There's something to work with there. The issue people have with it was more on the meta level of Barbara banging most of the Batfamily. Across the various works she's already slept with Bruce, Dick and Tim. Adding Jason means every male Robin and Batman has slept with Barbara Gordon. Honestly at this point I'd be more okay if the next member of the Batfam she got with was Cass or Steph. At least that would be variety.
Seemed kind of obvious the criminal came first. Joker always tries to make up "Maybe I'm the original or the Clone" to mess with the fans. But you bring up some really good points l
This made me want to re-read the run. Thank you. Also, the Babs is not a bicycle jab captures my feelings exactly. Stop writing females like it’s 1950.
Little late to the party because I waited for this on digital before watching your review. One thing that stood out for me was how much Jason Fabok's art reminds me of Gary Frank, but maybe that was just me. Just like you I enjoyed it whether it's canon or not (i'm personally going to go with it is canon) Geoff Johns did such a great job with this, some of the writers at DC nowadays could definitely learn a few things from him. Like maybe how to write stories instead of virtue signalling. I never really noticed till this the stark contrast with red coloring for Jason and blue for Dick. Anyway I love your breakdowns and all your videos in general usually put a smile on my face. I feel like i'm commenting on so many comic book reviewers'videos, i'm starting to remind myself of Olav Beemer from the Netherlands back in the old 80's and 90's letter's pages! I wonder if anyone else remembers him?
I got major Arthur Fleck vibes from Joe Chill’s reveal about the Waynes. I wonder if the wait for the Joker movie was one of the reasons behind the delays?
There was an implication some time ago that the Joker isan eldritch being, perhaps the spirit of GOtham itself, or at least it's darkness, something that had been there from the beginning, but only really took it's current form in response to the Bat. I like this idea, perhaps as a spirit that somehow merged with a man driven mad, be it with a fall into acme pits, or whatever the origin is. The spirit keeps him alive, gives him knowledge and the ability to survive where a normal man would not. I was hoping it would be mentioned here, but it ended up being a bit more bland than that.
"And now: EPILOGUE...SZZSSSZZ" Personally I prefer the Joker origin in "Case Study" by Dini and Ross. I kinda hope his origin is never finalized but if it is... I hope it's that one.
I thought that the Hood/Girl plotline mainly suggested troubling things about Jason. He comes across as desperate, ready to commit himself after one kiss and unable to deal with rejection. The slipshod way that he tapes his love note to Babs' door, and the way his writing enables silence and miscommunication, reek of self-sabotage. I think Jason badly wants love and approval, but some part of him senses that his fixation on Babs isn't healthy. Frankly, he's not in a great place to be with anyone, right there. And the fact that the janitor (Joker or not) sweeps the letter away? That felt to me like one of those cruelly apt twists of fate sometimes delivered at the end of a Twilight Zone episode. (Like the misanthrope who finds his glasses broken in "Time Enough at Last"?)
Though the story was overall kinda a let down, I did enjoy the idea of Joker being so obsessed with Batman that he hatched a huge plot to give him closure about his parents' death so that he could be his only pain. That's a special kind of nuts.
Wow. I’m in agreement with you 100% on almost everything. I am of the camp that feels that the Joker should be nobody, and thus anybody. It’s a good story, but it undercuts a lot. Jason’s anger suddenly changing to his softer side. We get years of build up and a writer comes along and says “naaaaah”. Under cut. Batgirl sex prop. Undercut. Gotham cops help abused mom to be fake her death. Out of character, as cops from waaaay back when have long been established as far less friendly. And she and junior are still alive? Double undercut. And all this time we had this premise that Batman could’ve figure out who the Joker is, but it was a blind spot in his otherwise great detective skills and his psyche. But that he knew all along and just didn’t say? In many ways that makes it so much worse. Undercut and K.O. Sometimes a review can be too dead on. “It started as a really good story, but.....”
Yet to read. Had decided to wait for trade. Since your first review I found it interesting they went with Todd and Barbara because to me they had 3 versions themselves that can be confusing to describe especially in Jason's case (his turn turn as Nightwing/Red Robin/etc). While Batgirl is a bit simpler pre Killing Joke, Oracle, and walking again/Burnside. Joe Chill almost seems like a tease to Batman '89 Joker. Look forward to the trade and get my own ideas of Bat happenings and what is canon for me.
I genuinly prefer the Joker being just one single guy who just changes his style every now and then to give Batman more challenges. For example, I liked that scene in GCS where he just admits to be embarrased at his silver age antics. Made him feel more like a person. As for this story, it really felt more like an "what if?" scenario rather than something that could work within the regular canon. Mainly because it feels to grand of an revelation to not be aknowledged in the mainline but also because it feels like a cop out on several fronts; Jason and Babs, Jokers wife and son etc. I mean, sooner or later someones gonna find out and then there should be a story about that. And also regarding those two, the timeline doesn't add up at all. Since the 10 year timeframe for Batman, the New52 introduced, got exterminated with Rebirth it's basicly back to post-Crisis, meaning that Batman has been around for atleast 20 years, taking all the Robins into account and having started his career in his ealry 20s (I usually put him in the late 30s to mid 40s age bracket). So the Jokers kid should be a bit older than he's been portrayed here (he looks like at most 14). I also think that Batman knowing who the Joker really was, was supposed to be yet another schocking revelation but it didn't work for me because of course he should know. Mainly because to me "Images" is the proper canonical first confrontation between the two and there we straight up get the Joker's cousin Melvin so it's not hard to imagine that Batman would've just foundout by investigating the family. So yeah, it was meh. I feel Geoff Johns is much better when writing more lighthearted stuff that to try his hands on something like this.
I think the fact that this was supposed to come out so long ago, combined with the fact that Geoff Johns seems super-focused on writing the sequels to Alan Moore stories that no one asked for just gives the whole thing a "....uh, okay..." vibe. Which was a shame because the first issue was so good and then the rest of the story just seemed to fall off of a cliff. It's a good thing that it did get so delayed because now it can just be an "Elseworlds/Imaginary Story/Black Label" and folks can just move on. Which is funny because with this and "Doomsday Clock" you can tell that Johns wanted things that would shake up the status quo and instead..."Well, that happened..."
I am SOOOOOO glad I didn't read this, and watched you break it down. Really letter at the end??....EFF Jason for not shoving it under the effing door.....eff that janitor too.
Your reasoning behind a lot of this comic is very reasonable, Sasha. And this video was a fair one. Hey have you ever considered making a video about Bat-Baby.
Addendum; I sometimes feel like there’s three Sashas. The one that shows us the fun side of comic stories, the one for the weird continuing sagas, and the one who peels back the “what were they thinking” dark underbelly side of things. And I don’t want any of them to get shot, as I’m good with all three! Seriously, this has to be the most I’ve interacted with any channel! Weird, but cool.
The problem with modern Batman comics is that the sidekicks no longer make sense. It was all well and good in the gold and silver ages to have a kid along, but now that everyone Batman ever fights is a grotesque murdering psychopath and the writers are crafting these stories almost exclusively for adults, the fact that Batman is throwing teenagers into this nightmare hellhole of a life beside him just takes me out of the story. I haven't read this series as I only read Batman comics that don't feature the extended family of sidekicks (slim pickings these days) and I'm also sort of allergic to DC continuity and their endless Events and Crises, but watching your video I'm completely on Jason's side and also thinking that maybe Batman should be arrested for child endangerment. That's what happens when you try to take the Robins too seriously--they just don't work and the fact that Batman keeps recruiting new ones just makes Batman seem, well, mentally ill, frankly. Suspension of disbelief is everything in superhero comics and with the Robins, for me, it all just falls apart.
In a way glad to see they put Joe Chill’s arc to an end, just sadden with Alfred’s death cause man i hope he comes back but we know he won’t come back...
People forget that Geoff Johns is the writer who brought back Jason Todd not Judd Winnick or Jeph Loeb. Maybe this was all a retcon because he was mad at how the character was handled post resurrection since he never got a chance to write a Batman story in canon-ish before this.
Why not? They’ve screwed up Batman with so many retcons, alternate universes, and endless apologies by Bruce Wayne for failing Dick. And everything. Although the bat penis was pretty funny.
15:38 That dynamic is why it's scarier in the original Halloween film and the 2018 film where Laurie Strode was just a random girl who Michael Myers saw when she dropped the key off at his old house and he decided to stalk and kill her and her friends for reasons only he knew than in Halloween II, Halloween H20 and Halloween Resurrection where she was retconned into being his sister and he wanted to kill her because of that.
One way to have the story feel like it has more impact - which might still happen - is to reveal that the Criminal does not die from the Comedian's shot but the trauma of the event causes him to turn his back on the Joker persona and become something even more chaotic. That way the story could serve as an optional intro to a new villain who "transcends" the Joker character and maybe is an enemy to the Joker too, forming a nice rivalry triangle. If they don't like this as his origin later on they can retcon it out quite easily by giving him a different reason to hate both Bruce and the Comedian, as long as they never explicitly point back to this story. And if it works really well, then they can explicitly point back here to canonize the story, and the JayBabs storyline provides a vehicle to do that by.
Jason and Barb being able to connect more deeply through their shared trauma at the hands of the Joker was very interesting and has a lot of potential. But NOT as romantic partners!!! Let them just be great friends who have an awful situation that gives the a unique dynamic that they don't have with any other member of the Bat Family. It would be interesting with her then being as romantically involved with Dick as she is right now, but even with how long they have been on/off a thing, Dick will never be able to relate to Barb in the way Jason can due to their relationship with the Joker. Them being friends for that reason is so much more fun and has so much more potential than what Geoff Johns tried to do. That potential of this potential of their dynamic was the only thing I got close to liking in this story. Nothing else was enjoyable or justified the existence of this story for me.
So it is canon now that Harley Quinn was truly a victim of the Joker and that she was never the one in complete control. He was always an abusive person and Harley is the second woman to escape from him.
The Three Jokers: My job here is done.
Me: But you didn’t do anything.
lol!
Joker’s job-Comicbook sales
Jokers: *chuckles* Didn’t I?
*Smugs proudly before suddenly teleporting away.*
@@TheChrisHype Me: No. You really didn’t.
That's the joke that Johns has played on us all.
“She’s not a bicycle, not everybody needs a ride.”
But I mean she does have those two big wheels…
(I’ve been in a wheelchair since birth. I get to make this joke.)
She was better with wheels than with legs.
@@TheRealKSmith Everyone would be. “Come to the crip side, we have parking permits!” 😂😜
ha omg. now I'm just picturing Dick taking a ride on her lap "whee" as she rolls down the hall. You know, before she yeets him off in annoyance.
Didn't they have ride in batman eternal
I thought you were talking about her breasts, ngl.
So Jason wrote down his secret identity on a piece of paper and left it on some door.... brilliant writing, Johns, brilliant writing 🌚
I was literally thinking the same thing
Exactly. It would’ve been smarter had Jason slip the letter under her door. Or hell tape it well to her window (assuming her apparent isn’t on the 1st floor)
@@CommanderShepard-wq3wo *apartment
Jason identity isn’t really a secret.
😭
Bruce: "I should have left you on that street corner where you were standing".
Jason: "But you didn't!"
"Of course not, you stole the wheels of the batmobile!!!"
@@michaeldiekmann6494 Nice.
Okay, but why does that Vine perfectly fit Bruce and Jason's relationship, at least in this context?
Also, Joker being revealed to have been an abusive husband pre-Joker has tons of implications on his relationship with Harley, most importantly: he likely did actually love her, which doesn’t excuse the abuse, but in fact makes it so much worse.
Him being abusive to women isn't that new tho and even predates Harley. In Going Sane he just straight up beats a council woman he kidnapped pretty badly (nothing is shown but his gloves are dripping with blood afterwards) because she didn't laugh at the old comedy movies he showed her.
1. In Killing Joke his wife loves and support him even though he's broke.
2. Wouldn't Joker look for his wife's body after hearing the news that she's dead.
And of course the biggest of them all....
3. In issue 2 where Joker is day dreaming about his family...why is he imagining them with the exact same look that we saw on issue #3 If he didn't know they're alive
@@louisconstantine8578 I haven't read the issue yet, is it confirmed that he doesn't know they're alive? He could've found out a long time ago, post-Joker, and just decided to leave them be. Even someone like Jack has to have a heart. Hell, depending on how much he opened up to Harley, maybe she's the one who convinced him to leave them be. After all, "she's the only one who's ever seen the Joker cry".
@@louisconstantine8578 1. Joker's version of events.
Sorry, wrong button. Where were we...
Ah, yes. 2. He's not rational, he's insane.
3. See 1
In reality, abusers often do not see themselves or their victims as they really are. Their ability to rationalize can be quite uncanny.
I always thought the point of The Killing Joke was that it DOESN'T take just one bad day. Gordon didn't snap, but the Joker did.
The point of the killing joke is Batman finally kills the joker in the last panel
It's the same in the Dark Knight. For all his angsty nihilism, the boats don't explode. Harvey was turned, but Joker's main thesis took a heavy hit.
@@DLee-jd4yw Harvey was Turned
@@hairsprayguy84 Yes, but other ordinary citizens didn't. They didn't act as he predicted.
@@DLee-jd4yw oh t hought you said Harvey wasn’t Turned
"Barbara's history with Dick..." Considering how they have given her romantic interactions with all the Bat family, that phrase has a lot of meaning! 😏
Well Barbara is always gonna have dick, even if it's not Dick's 😂
I did wonder if the recent storylines about Dick Grayson losing his identity were a way to wean the readers off of the name "Dick" so he could be re-badged as "Rick" or something more modern and less laden with innuendo.
Poor Jason
I admit it...I giggled like a 12 year old when I heard her say that.
Yeah, kind of waiting for her to break Damion in, she's given the rest a test run it seems
The Joker is far scarier when he’s doing horrible things just to amuse himself. Plus too much interconnection between characters back stories makes the DC ‘Universe’ feel like the DC ‘Suburb’, where we get the soap opera ‘He’s really your lost half brother’ corny story.
He is
Absolutely. The same as with Luthor being an old acquaintance of Clark's... meh...
I say this as a fan of Joker: I am feeling a fatigue of this fucking character.
Still better then the overrated movie where he is suddenly Bane and starting a clown revolt for some strange reason.
Just to shot a late talk show host!?!? I don't know sure I don't enjoy the JOKER being explained in that movie at all. Unless Johns seriously thought he was actually Jack Napier
Although BATWOMAN and TITANS tv shows seemed to went to kill off the Joker really quickly and have Bruce Wayne leave behind Gotham City......
GOD just suck it up WB and get a proper BATMAN tv show on air again
I honestly think a lot of people missed that the Janitor that sweeps away the note is the Joker. Not only does joker know who each of them are, and is aware how he has each actively harmed them, and could if he ever wanted to go after them at any time shows how much he is willing to keep the pain going. Even with jason's offer to change being extreme it would signify a change to jason and that's something the Joker would never want
seriously the janitors jumper is purple and the lettering is funtime cleaning or something in green
Which is gimmicky and does nothing to enhance an ultimately pointless story.
I thought I was the only one who thought that XD
@Jonathan Jones Yeah.
I noticed that too. Interesting. Is that a four secret Joker (I hope not) or did the real one escape?
Joker is such a Mary Sue. 😭 Not fun anymore.
I’m I the only one whose tire of every Joker story being about the meta narrative of who he is and his relationship with Batman.
I wanna see that relationship not just having the Joker explain it to me over and over again.
I'm just tired of the joker period.
Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. I just want to see the Joker doing Joker stuff, they don't have to keeo repeating the same thing over and over again.
I feel that. Also don't need to see the Wayne parents die over and over again.
@@amandak.5967 At this point, I'm more tired of Bruce remembering his parents die than he is.
YES!!!! THANK YOU!!!!
Best part of the video: "She's not a bicycle, not everyone needs a ride. "
Just can't see Babs and Damien though. She's not a tricycle. He's way too young.
He's too young now until Damian keeps aging without anyone aging or some cosmic force ages him in a pocket dimension or whatever.
*Damien's a Robin. Barbara is cursed to be the Bat Bicycle of Robins*
Please stop. Make it stop. Oh, God! There are no brakes on this bicycle!
@@bluehero-96 them's the "brakes", kid.
Isn't Damian more into blondes anyway? There were some stories where he had crushes on both Stephanie Brown and Supergirl.
Jason: "Why don't you just kill Joker?"
Batman: "Which one?"
Seriously, is there a point in killing once cloning is introduced?
Yeah, actually. In fact, you could argue that killing them becomes incredibly ethical once this is introduced. "Joker" is just a very annoying zombie. He's basically a chemically-created Black Lantern, complete with twisting the original personality. If Jokers create more Jokers, Jokers are literally just a zombie plague. If there's no cure, "Joker" isn't mentally ill, he's actually basically a rabid animal with spite.
@@PosthumanHeresy
Yet "ethical" does not equate to "possible." There are seriously loads of parodies making fun of "death" in comics, and this gave Joker the "actually a Doombot" card.
@@Bezaliel13 Oh entirely. The Joker's inability to die was already a meta joke because he just would never have it explained. They've put a "why" to it and also given a "why" to his multiple choice past and shifting personality. While the Clown and Criminal are dead, they were already dead in terms of a meta perspective. The Comedian is _The_ Joker. He didn't come first, but his chaos _is_ the definition of The Joker we have as our collective conceptualization of him.
However, The Comedian's philosophical underpinnings didn't spawn fully formed from the aether. The Joker as a whole, all of them, are a representation of the formless nature of crime. The idea that anyone can be a Joker is the idea that "one bad day" can be all it takes to push someone over the edge.
Every Joker has an origin, and so The Joker has no origin, but the main cultural idea of The Joker is the one whose origin is, to rip a quote from another franchise, "the evil that men do". It's only fitting that his origin is an abusive asshole rooted in self-justification, because _that was the point of The Killing Joke in the first place_ anyways. Not everyone breaks like him. Not everyone gives into their darkness because of their pain.
The Comedian-Joker's plan here is to establish himself and Batman within one framework instead of having them be smeared across them. The Comedian Joker sees himself as Pure Evil, and needs Batman to be Pure Good to be his antithesis. To do that, he has to get Batman past the strain of darkness within him, his dead parents PTSD. The Joker is, in essence, pulling a Hannibal plan.
His plan is to get Batman to fully forgive Joe Chill, allowing him to finally move past the death of his parents. Batman will be Batman because he must, but the "why" to the must is important. Batman is Batman because he must because of his trauma. The Joker wants Batman to be Batman because he must because he can, because The Joker is The Joker because he must because he can.
Failed comedian, disfigured gangster, harmless clown, and so many other ideas for The Joker have been used at some time or another, and they're all valid. They all happened, just as the new DC whatever has done too and just like Grant Morrison used to do with Batman. The three main interpretations of The Joker have been the ones used here, but there's many little one-off Jokers over the years. That's what all the other attempts symbolize, the different strains of personality all the different interpretations of even the three main Jokers have spun off. The core idea however is that The Joker is Evil. If some people break and some don't, ala TKJ, what differentiates them? Some at their core are good people. Jokers come from those who are not.
Each Joker's backstory is the strain of evil that they had before. The Criminal died off because the big organized criminal mastermind type isn't the "true" evil of the world, in that it isn't the root of evil. The Clown died off because the Silver Age as a whole died, and he's just not evil enough. The Comedian? The Comedian Joker is the true face of evil, and so he _is_ The Joker.
What is his root strain of evil? He's just an abusive jackass. There's no grand plan, there's no deep pain despite what he claims, there's no deep philosophy. There's just a void where a man should be, long before he became The Joker. The Joker is just the excuse he needed to become his true self. It wasn't one bad day that made him The Joker, it was one bad day that allowed him to become The Joker. The Joker is evil. The root of evil is selfish cruelty, whether for instrumental purposes or just for cruelty's sake. That's why he gets to be the true Joker.
@@PosthumanHeresy
Just went from killing clones being ethical to a long "Joker represents evil" speech there.
@@Bezaliel13 Yeah I have a lot of thoughts about this.
I enjoyed it and all, the character relationships most of all, but it certainly was a "Take it or Leave It" story, but I'm sure when it was announced and teased, people were expecting massive connotations to the Batman world.
Whenever Babs kisses someone, I always think "poor Ted."
Lol I thought I was the only one who appreciated Barbara and Ted Kord
Barbara had a 'thing' with Dick. She doesn't need to have a 'thing' with Jason, too.
I like Barbara as a strong woman, who has overcome overwhelming odds to get to where she is. I don't need bike Barbara. Especially after the horror that was The Killing Joke movie.
This ain't Twilight and Barbara doesn't strike me as that kind of girl.
Leave the bedhopping to Hal Jordan and Matt Murdoch (sluts)!
Also, I don't think it damages The Killing Joke (original). I always read the 'one bad day' thing as just the Joker's POV.
Gordon kind of disproved it anyway.
Dude, yes! Ever since I learned about Nightwing Annual 2 where he slept with Babs when delivering the invite to his wedding with Kory, I’ve been on team BlueOracle.
Ted's dead, baby, Ted's dead.
@@michaeldavis2001 I'm reminded of Jasons rando hook up with Starfire in Red Hood and the Outlaws.
I liked the "Comedian's" motive and that end scene between him and Batman was great but I wish we got to delve more time into the "Criminal" and "Clown".
Also, the Joker identity reveal and Killing Joke retcon was something I could take or leave. Especially since if they were gonna do a reveal I would've preferred an origin for 1 of the other Jokers.
Nevertheless, still a really good Bat-family comic I'd reccomend for the art alone. Just not one of the best Joker comics.
I always appreciate hearing your opinions, with so many fans being "NO IT HAS TO BE LIKE *THIS* " its refreshing to hear you say that any and all opinions on media can be vaild, cause we're all coming from different places🤷♂️
So if there were three Jokers did they all have to marry Lois Lane?
Lol
Nah. Silver Age Lois is too crazy even for Joker.
Ok, why? Why would Jason, who should be able to get in and out of most homes undetected (and definitely into an Ally's home). Why would he tape ANY message to a door!?!?🤦🏾♂️
Oh, because reasons🤷🏾♂️
He's trying to say "Boundaries are a thing and I can respect them! I'm doing so now because I care about you and I'm not Bruce."
Yet all the reader can think about is "I Can Change" from the South Park movie, and it rings a little hollow.
Shyness.
Could have just called jamal.
Instead of sliding the letter under the door, like a normal person would
Having three Jokers bothers me just a little. Nailing down The Killing Joke bothers me a bit more. Saying Bruce always knew the Joker's identity bothers me a LOT.
I mean, that's just silly. There have been so many scenes, so many speeches, so many private thoughts.... Hell, he gave a whole lamentation to Alfred back in Death of the Family about how he didn't know who he is! What, he was just pretending all these years? To everyone? So why is he telling Alfred NOW??
There's one huge problem with the ending...
If Batman always knew what the Joker's name was... *why did he even ask the Metron chair, leading to the reveal there were three?*
I mean he could have been referring to one of the other 2 only to find out there was a third
Because he asked it to confirm if the chair worked, read the story again
@@Nemesis_T-Type nope, for that he asked who killed his parents.
@@lanni5 nah, he asked that question. which had an obvious answer that everyone present knew the answer to. Then, he asked the follow up question, something only he knew (according to Johns at least, but its not outright ever contradicted in killing joke or Snyder's run which deal with this) to further confirm if the chair worked. Then he got the answer there are three. It was that way written to fool us, or of course it was retconned lol but I like giving writers the benefit of the doubt.
This felt like the comic equivalent of stepping into a puddle with nothing but your socks on.
Your breakdown on the acts -- strong start, overly self-challenged middle, softball "meh" finish -- totally describes my feelings on Geoff John's bibliography.
He's writing corporate franchise so that's the expectations
True but I feel this analogy can be put on most writers
Amen, Griffin! Testify! I have been so thoroughly let down by every long-form comic story by Geoff Johns I have read that I have stopped reading him entirely. This video's synopsis leads me to believe I don't need to read Three Jokers either.
@@jonathonriddle9922 maybe geoff has to split his time between comic book writer and show producer. I agree that the final act in his comics is way weaker than the beginning but it is enjoyable anyway. This comic feels like he just wanted to be done with it, he teased this story 4 years ago and it is now that he is giving it to us, something similar happened with doomsday clock, took almost 2 years to complete the damm story, so long that DC had time to hire bendis to shit all over superman and the legion of superheroes, a team that was meant to be back in that comic (and with way better designs than what we got thanks to bendis and the artist working with him). To sum it all up, he just takes too much time to write anything and maybe that's the reason the final material feels slightly ir sometimes radically different to what it was meant to be.
You literally a fan of the Harley Quinn show 😂
I’m just basking in the actual good artwork. Comics today have such subpar standards it was cathartic to see some actual care in the visuals.
6:50 I prefer Chill as either a desperate mugger or a guy who panicked and fired his gun instinctively. It being a random crime with no big motive is better than "He was a hitman for gangsters or it was a conspiracy by some big bad organisation who wanted Thomas and Martha out of the way." Batman's heroic career being against crime itself rather than just trying to bring one particular criminal to justice fits better.
An episode of batman brave and the bold (a show designed mostly to show young superhero fans about more obscure characters) put more effort in their version of a joker-batman rivalry predecessor. In this one, all we get to know about the designer is he battled some unnamed detective and eventually won after locking himself up to think of a really complicated plan. So much about him is never elaborated on because he’s just a stupid plot device.
Did anyone take a closer look at the janitor that swept away Jason's note to Batgirl? Purple jumpsuit with "Funtime Cleaners" written on the back
To me that was another good *LE GASP* moment
They did a whole lot just for us to end up back where we started. The only real revelation was that Batman is aware of Joker's name and Bruce seemingly forgiving Joe Chill.
scott synder did it first in death of the family
@Edward John Because DC didn't know what they're doing and still don't. There seems to be little to no communication between the writers to this day.
@Edward John Maybe he wanted to see what answer it would give him. When it said there were three, Batman said, "That's impossible.'' In my opinion, he already knew who he was and what his name was.
Ehhh, I think that last bit is very important. The Comedian was right, and I love what he used the plan to do. The idea of "we need to get Batman _past_ 'MY PARENTS ARE DEAD'" is exceptionally correct. Batman needs to be Batman because he can't sit back and watch others suffer when he can do something if they want to be able to develop him as a character, not just "mentally ill manchild punches people".
The 'I always knew his name' thing just enraged me. It felt like DC saying, "Ha ha! We're never gonna tell you readers! But Batman knows, and always has! Too bad for you, suckers!"
It was... something... there are good ideas and "odd" ideas.
Yes
“Especially since her history with Dick” lol it’s now my ringtone for an ex g/f, that just won’t leave me alone.. thanks for the sound byte!!! Lol
The world's greatest detective couldn't tell there were three? They're even drawn to look physically different. I'm sure he collected blood, hair, skin, and possibly tooth samples off of his bat-gloves. There's no way the tissues could be identical or "inconclusive."
There isn’t any reason why he will try to think there are more than one. He never killed one.
I can't wait for the sequel, The Three Robins, where we learn what Dick, Tim, and Damian got up to while this part of the BatFam was busy with the Joker(s).
It never made sense that Batman, the world's greatest detective, didn't know who the Joker really was.
I like that this story shows us why he's never revealed it.
Also, The Killing Joke has to be canon because that's how Barbara became Oracle.
2:15 Your Batman voice will never get old 😂
The big question is: "Why did that happen?" What purpose did it serve? Story-wise? Continuity-wise? Even Batman-wise?
This although not in the same continuity, follows the recent Batman reworking. He's no longer a billionaire, doesn't have Alfred so he relies on his Batfamily again, by forgiving Joe Chill he's no longer bound for vengeance but justice.
💰 💰💰
@@djpegao Batman’s poor now
“What purpose did it serve?” None.
@@warblerlo4361 th-cam.com/video/QckrHlBadJA/w-d-xo.html
Take my favorite version of the joker is some variation of Jack Napier, a crazy gangster who was
Catalyzed by Batman/chemicals like you don’t get to know much about ledger as joker, but you could say that he was Jack Napier, that he was some sort criminal who became the joker
I always thought Batman saw it as "Crime killed my parents" rather than "this particular criminal did it."
The epilogue with Jeannie and son contradict cannon set up in Pushback (from Batman: Gotham Knights - particularly issue 54) wherein it is revealed that a corrupt cop killed her since Jack botched the robbery job...all witnessed by Edward Nigma.
Pre-Crisis Commissioner Gordon learned that Barbara was Batgirl fairly early. At one point he and Batman were actually at odds on whether Batgirl should retire.
Firstly, Jason Fabok did an awesome job with art, perfection.
Sorry for incoming rant.
These books were good batman, batgirl, and red hood story. HOWEVER, this was a horrible Joker story where nothing was explored, nothing was delivered, and have the "the comedian" contradict and retcon The Killing Joker. WTF is that?
This book should've been longer with three more issues with exploring all three jokers, their history and motives.
I felt it could have been longer as well, but I doubt there would be an overall general appetite for that.
@@CasuallyComics i disagree, the joker along with harley quinn is the most popular and most profitable DC characters. Any story no matter how long or short there is always an appetite for it.
@@MrVenom626 they are oversaturating the market with Joker. City of Bane was actually welcome for me because as great as Joker is, he has been around seemingly at every turn. If not him, the hybrid Joker/Batman that is BWL. Joker should be used more sparingly to make sure his character not stale. They are basically using him the same way one way or another every time he shows up. That will kill those profits you mentioned at some point.
That Geoff Johns now apparently believes he's a writer in league with Moore is hysterical. He's always gotten his best ideas from people posting on message boards, and he can never actually follow through.
Also, the sexism in comics is so tiresome.
SeXISm
Babs before: genius librarian with a PHD and self-made vigilante turned tech genius and immensely powerful information broker the entire DC universe relies on
Babs since the new 52: being tossed around as a love interest between every single batboy and having her history and entire character undermined or removed
Justice for Babs, please.
I definitely think that if this book came out closer to when it was announced, or if it just had a smaller announcement and they didn't promote it in the way that it was then I think people would like it more, but after waiting so long for it to come out and it was just a "That was it?" reaction for a lot of people isn't going to help it be remembered in the long run. Personally I really dislike the additions they added to The Killing Joke as I prefer the aspect of this was just an unfortunate man who had a bad day over being an abuser and having his family still alive. Then there is the whole Barbara and Jason thing which was... interesting. I really don't by them as a couple and agree with what other people said about her being every Batboys girlfriend is annoying, but I do like the idea of them bonding over a shared pain, though they could have done this with maybe just a platonic friendship route. How it is now the romance between the two isn't that fleshed out and I personally feel that it takes up time from the rest of the comic. I have more thoughts on it but I think I am going to stop here
I like your idea about Batman/Bruce having overcome his orphan trauma by creating his own family. I've always been kind of puzzled by how we get from the big, angry, brooding loner of Year One to the mentor, father figure, and team player of later continuity. Emotionally, I see how it makes sense that the guy tackling muggers yelling "I am the night!" is going to need to find a tribe before he ends up dead or locked away somewhere. ;) But seriously, I didn't mind -- in fact, I was moved by -- Bruce's final scene with Chill. I'm not sure that I've seen this exchange done so well, before. Plus, it led me to your interpretation of the Batman Family, which really works.
I love how in the Batman Hush comic Catwoman lampshades Batman being surrounded by loved ones despite being a “loner”.
“For a loner, you sure do have a lot of strings.”
Makes me also think of Harley Quinn's "Joker Loves Harley" story arc, where Joker returns and tries to get back together with her and she falls under his spell and kisses him, but she immediately knows as only she can... He's not the Joker, he's an imposter. Turns out Joker did basically the same thing he did here, created a new Joker, only this one wasn't to troll Batman, it was to troll Harley. He's all laughing, saying that she's never really been a killer, she won't kill anyone now without his order, especially not him... and she blows his brains out. It's actually one of my favorite of Harley's arcs because it shows how while a part of her will always love the Joker, she truly is done with him.
The ending “twist” pissed me off. the Jason/Barbra thing was bad too. The story is eh, but the art was freaking fantastic.
I’m glad Jason kicked rocks
I feel like this entire story attempts to resolve the reveal that there is/was 3 Jokers. Which if I remember correctly was the response the Mobius chair gave Batman to the question of who is the Joker. Which if Batman knows where the Joker's family is living peacefully in Alaska should indicate he already knows who the Joker was. So why ask the question in the first place.
Oh DC, tie up one plot thread while opening up five others
It was kind of neat how they tied up the arc to reestablish the status quoe, even if that is a super safe thing to do. Also Happy Halloween Sasha!
Jason taping the message to the door was so infuriating, when it fell off I wasn't sure if to he angry or sad
Babs and Jason??? Wtf??? Came straight the hell outta nowhere, glad she turned him down. Random AF
Lol this reaction
The fact that he uses the worst tape in world was hilarious
It was the worst. It made no sense, it was forced and out of character. Also it was pretty toxic "I will stop being a killer but only if you date me even if you told me you're not interested in me so the responsibility is on you" 🤢
An homage to the Batman and Batgirl hook up in the Killing Joke animated movie
@@BigBadWolframio It makes sense based on shared trauma, but given that Babs has already been with two members of the Batfamily in the comics, and Tim & Bruce in other forms of media, I think it’s just tiresome seeing her get passed around the Batfamily
There was precedent to that sort of thing in Batman Eternal, but last time Jason rejected her. Either way, kinda weird. That I could leave on the cutting room floor
When i read the title of the video i was like joker is finally done with his obsession with batman.
Wait, didn't this whole thing start because Batman asked the Mobius chair who the Joker was? Then it ends with him saying he knew anyways?
DC: Ha! Got Em!!!!
Possibly testing the chair, to see if it truly holds the answer to everything? I dunno, that's the best explanation I can come up with.
@@vshazam And the most answer we will ever get.
@@vshazam He asks who his parent's killer is, and it was Joe Chill which he knew and acknowledges that he knows it, that's public record, not really impressive considering the power of the Morbius chair, then he asks who the Joker is because only he knows who he is and if the Morbius Chair knows who the Joker's name is then it is more than a faster search engine and an actual universal knowledge chair... Then it tells Bruce "Which one?"
he knew who one of the jokers was, but the info the chair gave him major doubt on witch joker it was that he knew, and wather or not he was even right about the first one
5:52, idk I would be down for a Robin becoming the new Joker but I think it would only work if the story was an elseworld.
I agree with a lot of the points you brought up about in this video I have to say the whole Barbara Jason shipping thing indifferent to the ending we got was the ending I was afraid we were going to get but I wasn't sure if they were able to pull off what they were trying to promise they were going to pull off but I enjoyed it overall. Awesome video as always by the way! 👍👍
The one thing that bothered me was that Batman has known all this time who the Joker is; why did he bother to ask the Mobile Chair who the Joker is? Unless he was looking for confirmation of his supposition, which would have explained his reaction when the chair said there are three. It would have been nice if this series had addresses Bats' encounter with the Mobile chair, though.
I originally typed Mobius, not mobile. There needs to be a way to shut off autocorrect on this phone.
I know in the comics he did it to Harley, but I'm not a big fan of pre-Joker being an abuser. Maybe he had some habits or friends that his wife didn't agree with, like in Mask of the Phantasm, where it's revealed that he worked for the Valestra mob, but maybe he thought of himself as a decent man just trying to support his family and only came to terms with and stopped fighting the monster he had the potential to become after he thought his wife and kid died and he took the chemical bath. Joker becoming a monster after the chemical bath, not before, would support his "one bad day" monologue.
"Your mileage may vary". Sasha's catchphrase 😆
Re Batgirl and her relationships with the Robins:
'I see how that could be awkward considering her history with Dick'.
I see what you did there.
I’m in the camp that between canon ( Dick & now Jason), Batman Adventures ( Dick & Bruce) , & one of the games ( Tim) They are doing the Barbara character a disservice by putting her in relationships with all of the male Wayne’s heirs except Damon…NOT FEELING IT
For me, it's weird that they tried a Jason/Babs romance. I mean I have never viewed Batgirl as a daughter to Batman, so I never had a problem with Dick and Barbara being an item. However, I do view both Dick and Jason as sons of Batman. I mean he did take them in a wards after all. So, it's kinda weird that Jason would be going after his "brother's" ex like that.
Even in this story it felt like they were siblings, so hinting a possibly pairing them up because they have both experienced a similar trauma is kind of gross. Love the story overall, but I really could have done without that tacked on romance element
@@calumhouston3308the story literally has Barbara reject him three times in the story. So it was never going to be romance, it was a vulnerable moment between two ppl that shares the same trauma, one healed good and the other didn’t. It’s that attachment that created that scene.
I absolutely love how you lay out different interpretations and present them as all okay!
I don't like the tweek to the killing joke, it kinda makes the whole anyone can go bad from one bad day a little weaker, because now he was already kinda bad, it resonates more with me personally with him being a failed comedian who made a deal with the mob to help his wife, makes his downfall into madness morec tragic
Very good point.
True, but the point of The Killing Joke is that Joker is ultimately wrong about the one bad day theory. That doesn't mean that there is no tragedy to Joker. There is, but we do not need to have such an extreme as he was once a average joe failure but fundamentally kind character who had series of unfortunate events and turned into an evil supervillain. This type of narrative is often sold as bring deep and layered, but it's actually not really. Yes, it's good to humanize villains because it shows that the potential for darkness which reaches it's perfection in them resides in everyone, but that narrative of good and naive to a fault to incredible evil is actually pretty simplistic. The more accurate narrative would be to humanize a character who has always been antisocial and bad, but experienced trauma and became even worse. The tragic comedian origin has a lot of pathos and relatability because he is more normal to begin with, but that is more to do with making it easier for the audience to sympathise than anything else. So, I actually prefer a Joker who has always been criminal before becoming the Joker, but not high ranking criminal (so not the enforcer/hitman Jack Napier origin Batman 1989 or BTAS). I know some prefer the more dramatic transformation though, but there's no reason you couldn't do that with Joker being a shady guy before. It is not necessary to lay it on thick with making his former self as sad as possible (which is what TKJ origin and Joker 2019 do). So, a more morally grey version of the failed comedian origin would be most welcome to me; just emphasise the criminal aspect a bit more and tone down the failed comedian loser/dead wife part.
I do think TKJ is over referenced at this point tbh and that's why the reveal at the end of Three Jokers was underwhelming. Because it's like, oh The Killing Joke Joker is the one true Joker? Snooze. Nothing surprising.I like Three Jokers a lot, but that aspect was a let down, plus as it dismisses golden age Joker and Bronze age Joker even though the latter has some of the most iconic Joker stories, and golden age Joker is the one I wanted to see more of. Especially as 40s Joker stories are not in fact that sullen - he still had a lot of the maniacal energy.
Have you heard the speculation that the janitor that sweeps up Jason's letter is one of the "new" Jokers?
My take is simply this "I knew one week after..." - meaning Batman is the World's Greatest Detective. But there have been THREE Jokers facing the family and he had no clue. The story really didn't address this oversight. Either Batman is or is not a Detective. Either he's got it cold - or he's just making all of this up as he goes along. I need closure now that I didn't need before this story. That is the real disappointment of the end result...again for me.
i love the Joker voice. but i am 100% here for the Batman voice. "EnOuGh!" i grin like the Joker every time i hear the Batman voice.
I honestly liked it. If they had given even a single answer more, everyone would hate it so much harder. Leaving the other two as undefined entirely is brilliant because it doesn't ruin the Joker's multiple choice, unknown backstory despite giving the surviving Joker the defined one from The Killing Joke. I think blending the exact opposite interpretations of The Joker from noted warlocks who hate each other Alan Moore and Grant Morrison is a pretty impressive feat. I also like who they kept alive (honestly I think of him/read him as the Hamill Joker), Batman's reasons, and especially the Joker's motive. Healing Batman's "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD!" trauma with fucking closure just to make senpai notice him? That's incredible. I am here for "Joker goes above and beyond in insane sadistic schemes to get Batman to notice and care about him".
As for Jason and Barbara, just because a character is problematic doesn't mean that the writing is problematic. Barbara is presented as the correct path for dealing with trauma, with Jason as the dark reflection. Barbara got help. Jason is wowed by the concept of therapy in book form. Barbara knows it's a trauma bond. Jason is not aware his feelings are a trauma bond. The writing, to me, makes that pretty clear. Jason's just beginning to process his trauma and Barbara was there for him, saw him at his most vulnerable, protected him, took him in when Bruce had (in his eyes) abandoned him, and walked in on him after a shower. So, of course this is how he reacted.
Also, the ending twist is that the Joker is just an abusive douchebag. I kinda like that extra meta level. I don't think the story was anti-defined. It went both ways at once. But this Joker being an abusive ass who uses his problems as a reason to hurt others? Yes. I get why it removes the "one bad day" thing, but I really like the meta commentary on the Joker fandom here. To me, she's the original Harley Quinn, before even Harley Quinn. The patient zero of The Joker's abusive manipulative bullshit. One bad day drove him from a normal jackass to a supervillain, but he was already a jackass. It's a rejection of his worldview, but it also leaves the Criminal and Clown as entirely undefined beings just like the other viewpoint of the Joker. All we have is ages and a vague backstory for the Criminal as an old Gotham criminal, and with the Clown he seems to be only a decade or so older than the Comedian. The Criminal predates the modern views on the Joker, so that makes sense. He's vague by accident. The Clown is the pre-modern Joker and as such he gets to be the Undefined Joker. He dies, yes, but he exists up to this story. Though, as much as it would have been a little too fourth wall breaking, I wish the Clown said boner.
Batman's emotions, I generally feel like he shuts them down under too much pressure. It's his trauma response. He just goes emotionally numb when shit hits the fan. The better Batman's mental health, the more emotions he has.
@The White Witch Oh sure, I'd agree they could have the potential. There's something to work with there. The issue people have with it was more on the meta level of Barbara banging most of the Batfamily. Across the various works she's already slept with Bruce, Dick and Tim. Adding Jason means every male Robin and Batman has slept with Barbara Gordon. Honestly at this point I'd be more okay if the next member of the Batfam she got with was Cass or Steph. At least that would be variety.
Seemed kind of obvious the criminal came first.
Joker always tries to make up "Maybe I'm the original or the Clone" to mess with the fans.
But you bring up some really good points l
One of the best reviews/breakdowns/commentary you have done. Huzzah and Le Gasp!
This made me want to re-read the run. Thank you.
Also, the Babs is not a bicycle jab captures my feelings exactly. Stop writing females like it’s 1950.
Little late to the party because I waited for this on digital before watching your review. One thing that stood out for me was how much Jason Fabok's art reminds me of Gary Frank, but maybe that was just me. Just like you I enjoyed it whether it's canon or not (i'm personally going to go with it is canon) Geoff Johns did such a great job with this, some of the writers at DC nowadays could definitely learn a few things from him. Like maybe how to write stories instead of virtue signalling. I never really noticed till this the stark contrast with red coloring for Jason and blue for Dick. Anyway I love your breakdowns and all your videos in general usually put a smile on my face. I feel like i'm commenting on so many comic book reviewers'videos, i'm starting to remind myself of Olav Beemer from the Netherlands back in the old 80's and 90's letter's pages! I wonder if anyone else remembers him?
Loving the voice work for the characters. Haha. Good stuff. And a great review summary!
I got major Arthur Fleck vibes from Joe Chill’s reveal about the Waynes. I wonder if the wait for the Joker movie was one of the reasons behind the delays?
There was an implication some time ago that the Joker isan eldritch being, perhaps the spirit of GOtham itself, or at least it's darkness, something that had been there from the beginning, but only really took it's current form in response to the Bat.
I like this idea, perhaps as a spirit that somehow merged with a man driven mad, be it with a fall into acme pits, or whatever the origin is. The spirit keeps him alive, gives him knowledge and the ability to survive where a normal man would not. I was hoping it would be mentioned here, but it ended up being a bit more bland than that.
Can you please cover the Batgirl stuff...what was that about the Batgirl writer not being invited to the Bat-Summit? 🦇
"And now: EPILOGUE...SZZSSSZZ"
Personally I prefer the Joker origin in "Case Study" by Dini and Ross. I kinda hope his origin is never finalized but if it is... I hope it's that one.
I thought that the Hood/Girl plotline mainly suggested troubling things about Jason. He comes across as desperate, ready to commit himself after one kiss and unable to deal with rejection. The slipshod way that he tapes his love note to Babs' door, and the way his writing enables silence and miscommunication, reek of self-sabotage. I think Jason badly wants love and approval, but some part of him senses that his fixation on Babs isn't healthy. Frankly, he's not in a great place to be with anyone, right there. And the fact that the janitor (Joker or not) sweeps the letter away? That felt to me like one of those cruelly apt twists of fate sometimes delivered at the end of a Twilight Zone episode. (Like the misanthrope who finds his glasses broken in "Time Enough at Last"?)
Though the story was overall kinda a let down, I did enjoy the idea of Joker being so obsessed with Batman that he hatched a huge plot to give him closure about his parents' death so that he could be his only pain. That's a special kind of nuts.
Wow. I’m in agreement with you 100% on almost everything. I am of the camp that feels that the Joker should be nobody, and thus anybody.
It’s a good story, but it undercuts a lot. Jason’s anger suddenly changing to his softer side. We get years of build up and a writer comes along and says “naaaaah”. Under cut. Batgirl sex prop. Undercut. Gotham cops help abused mom to be fake her death. Out of character, as cops from waaaay back when have long been established as far less friendly. And she and junior are still alive? Double undercut.
And all this time we had this premise that Batman could’ve figure out who the Joker is, but it was a blind spot in his otherwise great detective skills and his psyche. But that he knew all along and just didn’t say? In many ways that makes it so much worse.
Undercut and K.O.
Sometimes a review can be too dead on. “It started as a really good story, but.....”
If Batman knew his name all along, why the hell did he ask the Mobius Chair who he was in the first place? The ending to 3J unravels its own setup.
That outta no where "enooouuugh" in your Batman voice sent me lol
Yet to read. Had decided to wait for trade.
Since your first review I found it interesting they went with Todd and Barbara because to me they had 3 versions themselves that can be confusing to describe especially in Jason's case (his turn turn as Nightwing/Red Robin/etc). While Batgirl is a bit simpler pre Killing Joke, Oracle, and walking again/Burnside.
Joe Chill almost seems like a tease to Batman '89 Joker.
Look forward to the trade and get my own ideas of Bat happenings and what is canon for me.
I genuinly prefer the Joker being just one single guy who just changes his style every now and then to give Batman more challenges. For example, I liked that scene in GCS where he just admits to be embarrased at his silver age antics. Made him feel more like a person.
As for this story, it really felt more like an "what if?" scenario rather than something that could work within the regular canon. Mainly because it feels to grand of an revelation to not be aknowledged in the mainline but also because it feels like a cop out on several fronts; Jason and Babs, Jokers wife and son etc. I mean, sooner or later someones gonna find out and then there should be a story about that.
And also regarding those two, the timeline doesn't add up at all. Since the 10 year timeframe for Batman, the New52 introduced, got exterminated with Rebirth it's basicly back to post-Crisis, meaning that Batman has been around for atleast 20 years, taking all the Robins into account and having started his career in his ealry 20s (I usually put him in the late 30s to mid 40s age bracket). So the Jokers kid should be a bit older than he's been portrayed here (he looks like at most 14).
I also think that Batman knowing who the Joker really was, was supposed to be yet another schocking revelation but it didn't work for me because of course he should know. Mainly because to me "Images" is the proper canonical first confrontation between the two and there we straight up get the Joker's cousin Melvin so it's not hard to imagine that Batman would've just foundout by investigating the family.
So yeah, it was meh. I feel Geoff Johns is much better when writing more lighthearted stuff that to try his hands on something like this.
Your Batman voice cracked me up every time. You are something else. lololol
Sasha, I love your Batman voice!
I think the fact that this was supposed to come out so long ago, combined with the fact that Geoff Johns seems super-focused on writing the sequels to Alan Moore stories that no one asked for just gives the whole thing a "....uh, okay..." vibe. Which was a shame because the first issue was so good and then the rest of the story just seemed to fall off of a cliff. It's a good thing that it did get so delayed because now it can just be an "Elseworlds/Imaginary Story/Black Label" and folks can just move on.
Which is funny because with this and "Doomsday Clock" you can tell that Johns wanted things that would shake up the status quo and instead..."Well, that happened..."
I am SOOOOOO glad I didn't read this, and watched you break it down. Really letter at the end??....EFF Jason for not shoving it under the effing door.....eff that janitor too.
Your reasoning behind a lot of this comic is very reasonable, Sasha. And this video was a fair one. Hey have you ever considered making a video about Bat-Baby.
Addendum; I sometimes feel like there’s three Sashas. The one that shows us the fun side of comic stories, the one for the weird continuing sagas, and the one who peels back the “what were they thinking” dark underbelly side of things. And I don’t want any of them to get shot, as I’m good with all three! Seriously, this has to be the most I’ve interacted with any channel! Weird, but cool.
I like the idea that joker does not have a set origin story so I'm just going to pretend he still doesn't even if this comic says otherwise.
Isn't Barbara old enough to be Jason's mom? However, it is the comics and birthdates tend to slide around a bit.
Always appreciate your analysis and commentary, incisive and amusing.
Thank you, Sasha. This video was great.
Man, this is rough. It had real potential but it never went far past the what if question.
The problem with modern Batman comics is that the sidekicks no longer make sense. It was all well and good in the gold and silver ages to have a kid along, but now that everyone Batman ever fights is a grotesque murdering psychopath and the writers are crafting these stories almost exclusively for adults, the fact that Batman is throwing teenagers into this nightmare hellhole of a life beside him just takes me out of the story. I haven't read this series as I only read Batman comics that don't feature the extended family of sidekicks (slim pickings these days) and I'm also sort of allergic to DC continuity and their endless Events and Crises, but watching your video I'm completely on Jason's side and also thinking that maybe Batman should be arrested for child endangerment. That's what happens when you try to take the Robins too seriously--they just don't work and the fact that Batman keeps recruiting new ones just makes Batman seem, well, mentally ill, frankly. Suspension of disbelief is everything in superhero comics and with the Robins, for me, it all just falls apart.
In a way glad to see they put Joe Chill’s arc to an end, just sadden with Alfred’s death cause man i hope he comes back but we know he won’t come back...
People forget that Geoff Johns is the writer who brought back Jason Todd not Judd Winnick or Jeph Loeb. Maybe this was all a retcon because he was mad at how the character was handled post resurrection since he never got a chance to write a Batman story in canon-ish before this.
Yep, I totally concur with your summary on all this...🤘🏼💯✔️
Why not? They’ve screwed up Batman with so many retcons, alternate universes, and endless apologies by Bruce Wayne for failing Dick. And everything. Although the bat penis was pretty funny.
15:38 That dynamic is why it's scarier in the original Halloween film and the 2018 film where Laurie Strode was just a random girl who Michael Myers saw when she dropped the key off at his old house and he decided to stalk and kill her and her friends for reasons only he knew than in Halloween II, Halloween H20 and Halloween Resurrection where she was retconned into being his sister and he wanted to kill her because of that.
One way to have the story feel like it has more impact - which might still happen - is to reveal that the Criminal does not die from the Comedian's shot but the trauma of the event causes him to turn his back on the Joker persona and become something even more chaotic. That way the story could serve as an optional intro to a new villain who "transcends" the Joker character and maybe is an enemy to the Joker too, forming a nice rivalry triangle. If they don't like this as his origin later on they can retcon it out quite easily by giving him a different reason to hate both Bruce and the Comedian, as long as they never explicitly point back to this story. And if it works really well, then they can explicitly point back here to canonize the story, and the JayBabs storyline provides a vehicle to do that by.
They teased this back when it was still the new 52 during the Darkseid War. This story should have been more imo.
Jason and Barb being able to connect more deeply through their shared trauma at the hands of the Joker was very interesting and has a lot of potential. But NOT as romantic partners!!! Let them just be great friends who have an awful situation that gives the a unique dynamic that they don't have with any other member of the Bat Family. It would be interesting with her then being as romantically involved with Dick as she is right now, but even with how long they have been on/off a thing, Dick will never be able to relate to Barb in the way Jason can due to their relationship with the Joker. Them being friends for that reason is so much more fun and has so much more potential than what Geoff Johns tried to do. That potential of this potential of their dynamic was the only thing I got close to liking in this story. Nothing else was enjoyable or justified the existence of this story for me.
So it is canon now that Harley Quinn was truly a victim of the Joker and that she was never the one in complete control. He was always an abusive person and Harley is the second woman to escape from him.