Is BMPCC gyro stabilization broken?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2022
- I was playing around with the new Blackmagic gyro stabilisation that’s part of the 7.9 camera update when I came across this strange problem. At first I thought I’d broken it somehow. However, after some investigation I think I have found out what is behind it.
I think having gyro stabilisation in the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras is a great addition, but it’s also important to understand it’s limitations so we can use it more effectively.
Hopefully, this video will shed some light on how the gyro stabilisation works, what can go wrong when using it and how to work around it or fix it.
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Gratulation! This is exactly the problem of most stabilization programs with automatic settings findings have. I am also working to get the stabilization right. The biggest problem is that most product manager do have most time beginners as costumers in mind. So they reduce flexibility and capability in order to make using it easier for beginners.
Appreciate the thought and hard work you put into your videos! You're leading the way in sharing knowledge about the gyro stabilisation!
I wasn't sure if people would want another video on the gyro so i'm glad you liked it.
This is great information, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Brilliant as ever 👍 So funny but really informative.
Very good information indeed. I always feel like if i'm more intentional about how i'm capturing, coupled with the knowledge of the tools capabilities and limitations, I could make better decisions as to what will bring my visions to life through camera. I recently installed the firmware into my 6k and upgraded resolve to 8. something... and have yet to use this feature on a shoot. I'm excited to do so but have been reluctant because unlike your purposeful test of multiple takes, we all know that luxury doesn't exist in the field. Said all that to say... Thank you Christopher for running these tests and showing your findings. I was curious about what would become of these types of movements and you've shown us with great clarity. I wish you the best in your endeavors. Keep making great content.
Thank you, Todd. I’m glad it was helpful in some way to you. I really appreciate your kind words.
I don’t think the feature is designed to eliminate the need for a lens stabilizer and/or gimbal but rather aid in controlling more micro movements. Otherwise, you will get extreme warping and/or need to crop more than you would like in which is what some cameras do, internally from my understand.
Yes, I agree. It's very good at getting rid of the micro jitters. A better name for it would be something like Jitter Remover. "stabilizatoin" makes me think of a steady cam type shot, which I don't think this is actually trying to replace.
Thanks for sharing Christopher
No worries, thanks for watching.
That makes perfect sense!
I had some issues but mainly resolve crashing while applying the effect.
And definitely the over zoom but not at the extent of yours.
Great video!
Thanks mate. I had some problems with crashing. Have you updated to Resolve 18 or are you still using the Beta?
@@ChristopherMichaelLaw it’s fully updated to the 18.1
@@ZEUS Ah okay. I haven't had any crashes yet on the full 18 release. Hopefully they will look into the crash reports and fix it in the next update.
@@ChristopherMichaelLaw
I hope so too.
Thank you for the replies 🙏
The camera update from yesterday for the Pocket 4K might address this. Under the updates they specifically call out the Pocket 4K having "Improved motion sensor data accuracy"
but not any of the other cameras.
Thanks man, I'll take a look at it.
it is an amazing information, it changes totally the way we shoot when gyro is needed, for sure I will take car of this if im handheld trusting the gryo, all tools need to know how to be used, any tool is far from perfect but we need to know how to use it.
Exactly. It can be very effective but you need to plan ahead if you are going to get the best from it.
Is it as good as the Sony's Catalyst Browse? Also is the older BMPCC 6K supported?
thanks for the video! a lot of the question you answer)
Thanks for watching 👍
That's the only thing why i miss premiere pro. It wasn't actually cropping that much
HI,
I had the same problem, need to make micro cuts in edit to avoid it but still you are right best to have small clips
Yeah, there are ways around it and most people won't be doing movements like I was anyway, It's just useful to know that it might happen and why.
I'll be buying my first BM PCC [still deciding between the 4k and 6k G2] I've only edited/colored footage on Premiere. I'm guessing by all the BM fans here - is Davinci worth the switch. If so, what has been your best introduction to it for learning?
I'd say Davinci is very much worth the switch. Davinci isn't just an alternative to Premiere, it's an alternative to After Affects and Audition too. That might make it seem complicated at first, but if you never use after affects you don't need to touch the Fusion tab. I'd download the free version and test it out - you have nothing to lose.
TH-cam has loads of walkthroughs and tips - th-cam.com/video/h9MrEaELl2M/w-d-xo.html would be good starting point.
Wow i like your Kind or Storytelling, i have a Pocket 6k myself and i have to say it works much better with shorter clips. Fantastic Video Christopher ☺️ greetings from germany, Oskar
What lighting are you using, i really like it ☺️ and another question about the batteries, do you have a preferred solution ?
@@OskArt for the 6K you can use the screw on battery extender. you can put 2 more in there. other option is to go with a a Vmount type of battery, that will give you hours and hours. for on the go, run n gun I bought a belt clip and a small Vmount clipped to my waist to lighten the load on my hands.
Danke, Freund! I'm glad you liked it.
The lighting is just a NEEWER SL60W which I think is the some as the GODOX. It's just out of frame and is set to 50%. I'm using a very cheap 110cm/43inch softbox on it. That's it, apart from the lamp on the desk. I haven't settled on a battery solution yet. I have an adaptor that goes in the DC that lets me use the bigger Sony batteries that I attach to the top of the cage. I'll probably go the V-mount route at some point.
Hello! I have the latest davinci 18.1.2. with a license, BM 4K is also updated to the latest firmware, but the gyro stabilization function is stupidly not in the list of stubs. I shot in braw, turned off the stub on the lens, turned on the optics stabilization function, the camera automatically entered the parameters of the lens (panasonic 12-35). What is the matter, comrades? Help!
I always use the stabilization feature with as little level as possible, then work my way up. The buffer around the frame causes the loss of pixels. I don't expect this feature to gain a 'steady cam' look. It's hand-held, so some "wavering" is unavoidable.
Yep. Although when setup right, with following shots, it can get very steady cam like.
did you make sure you entered your lens data on the camera? I haven't seen anything like this but haven't hit any hard moves like that either. ill have to give it a try. Overall im pretty happy with it. I shot a lot of high speed shutter and was really impressed with the gyro stab VS software image based. glad they opened this up to users. Although the 4k metabones crew isnt pleased. and speaking of stabilizing.. I bought an old 8mm camera and am outfitting the RS2 as we speak, ha ha. and of course I had to modernize it with a webcam over the OVF and a video assist, laser pointer, and a nucleus nano focus . I love the smell of ektachrome in the morning :).
Yeah, all the correct lens data was auto filled by the camera. Is it 100% known that this makes a difference? Wouldn't it be possible to fill this in after the filming, say like how Lightroom does image correction?
Also, I haven't heard of any 4K metabones problems. Is that because the metabones makes the lens wider and that conflicts with what focal length the metadata says?
@@ChristopherMichaelLaw from what ive read, you have to do the thing where you swipe left on the main screen and the data window will open up and you have to manually enter the lens data. If youre using a zoom you have to enter the zoom you're going to use, and dont zoom while filming.. this information is all needed BEFORE you begin to film so that the camera knows how to write the data. its too late to do it afterwards. The camera is writing the data to the metafile in BRAW to be used in resolve. and you HAVE to shoot BRAW, it doesnt work with pro rez. and for the metabones, or any other lens stabilization built in will defeat the gyro, because it doesnt know what its dealing with. it needs to know 1:1 what its shooting with. I suppose if you knew the exact lens (including the metabones) it may work but I doubt it. havent heard any good results.
sorry had to edit, my computer wrote "poorer" instead of "pro Rez" ha ha
@@ChristopherMichaelLaw it definitely makes a difference on lenses which don't give the info - unfortunately it doesn't seem to make a difference if you enter lens data inside Resolve, or at least it didn't when I tried it in the beta
@@stevegreen9474 Interesting. My gut feeling would have been that the gyro data is just a record of the camera movement and that it would be recorded exactly the same way no matter what lens is on the camera. The lens info would only be used in the final calculation that Resolve makes when you hit stabilize. If it does need to be input before filming, it would imply that the gyro sensor is behaving differently depending on what lens is on the camera. Thanks for the info.
cool video
Glad you like it 👍
Its funny ... I also discovered the same Problem like 2 hours ago ... and now TH-cam gives me this Video ;)
They are watching your every move!
So couldn't it work if you just cut the clip into parts and stabilized them individually when you have a direction change? I guess you might have a jump in framing, but there might be a fix for that... I get my camera today, I might play around with that this week.
Yeah, I think that's right. But as you said, you will get a jump in framing - sometimes a massive zoom in or out. Enjoy your camera!
Thank you very much for the insights! now I can make better use of it. Black Magic should probably improve the AI to be able to smooth out these borders across a certain number of frames instead of the whole footage and call the check box Adaptive Zoom Or something. Just an idea.
Never-mind, I just finished the rest of the video and you had pretty much the same idea lol
Thanks, mate. I think this is something they will be able to improve going forward. It has to start somewhere and it’s great they have opened it up. As you said, with advances in AI it could become very powerful.
Adobe's Warp Stabilizer does the same and its even more annoying, because there is lack of freedom to select individual actions like Position, Scale, Rotation, which are combined as ONE, so we can't uncheck Scale, which has been the cause of most problems, but like on After Effects, you can add keys and manually fix those things and it also has Rasterize Edges with feather option, where sometimes it does a good job to fill the missing areas and otherwise, it just doesn't line up the pieces and it looks like bad jigsaw attempt, but still, the manual position, rotation, scale options do help and I don't know if DaVinci has those.
I just ordered BMP6k and it's on the way, so this would be the first time I open up DaVinci, so I have no idea about its options, since it's not an animation software.
As a rule, of course, as you know best, it's the safest to stabilize on the shoot and leave the least to do on the post. Secondly, I totally agree with you to just edit out the bad parts we can't fix. It's also a good chance to add a cut, and stabilize those pieces separately and give different zooms, if they work for the mood and pace.
Yeah, it's a good tool and I'm glad Blackmagic have included it but you need to plan ahead to get the best from it. It's not something that you slap on bad footage and it will magically fix the problems.
@@ChristopherMichaelLaw oh yeah totally agree. It can all start to warp and go crazy if too much jerks and shaking
Did you put your lens information in the canera? Once you do that the gyro will work as it shot. With no lens information in your camera it will automatically think it's 18-25mm setup.
Yes. All the lens info was input correctly.
@@ChristopherMichaelLaw I have np with gryo why I asked
nice video 👌 you could take a look at gyroflow - workflow is more annoying (video must be converted // you'll need to make lens profile) but stabilization seems to work quite well for a lot of people (has dynamic zooming, a lot of of settings to play with) // i don't have the bmpcc so idk how the stabilization in davinci works. in gyroflow, when working with a ultrawide lens, the lens profile the sides of the picture get destreched which often gives additional room for stabilization which looks "less cropped"
Yeah, someone else mentioned gyroflow. I haven't had time to look into it much yet. I don't know if it can make use of the gyro data from the BMPCC's yet because it's saved within the BRAW metadata. I could be wrong with this, though.
@@ChristopherMichaelLaw from what i understand gyroflow reads the gyro data from the braw file. so the video file can't be braw(thats why it needs to be converted) & the gyro data is loaded from the braw file
@@swoopyfpv Ah, okay. Thanks for the info. Something I need to learn more about for sure.
What if we split the clip and apply gyro to zoomed in parts separately? Will that work?
It might be possible but I think it would be very hard to know how much to apply without causing the picture to jump in and out at the cut points.
@@ChristopherMichaelLaw Yes, you are right.
is this still an issue?
Even a slow and steady turn with the camera results in this. It seems to only work with forward pointing shots. It's next to useless, really. It's better to have it than not, I guess, but I'll stick to translation for most stuff.
They have to start somewhere and I’m sure they will improve it going forward. As you said it’s better to have it than not.
Probably resolve needs another update regarding this
Yeah. I'm sure it's only going to get better and better in future updates.
I think that your problem may be because you didn't provide the lens data in the camera.
The channel "Another Camera Channel" explained this, in a video with the title "How to use camera gyro stabilization for Blackmagic BMPCC4K, BMPCC6K..."
I didn't need to put the lens data in manually because the camera recognised the lens and auto filled in the correct data. I don't know which lenses do this, but all the ef lenses I have with contacts seem to do it. If I was using a fully manual lens without electronic contacts, then yes, I would have needed to put the data in.
Dynamic zoom… almost like a.. hmm…. Warp stabilizer?
Similar, but it would use the gyro data, so it wouldn’t get confused like warp stabiliser can if everything in shot is moving but the camera is actually stationary.
Edit first, stabile short clips on timeline after.
Of course. Now imagine you're shooting documentary style and you want longer moving takes, where stabilization would help. Or, you want to shoot a conversation panning back and forth between characters. That's my point in this video. Obviously there are ways around some of it but in some situations the gyro stabilization is going to give you problems.
5 minutes i will never get back
Yeah, that's not really to purpose of Gyro. You are trying to fix something that you broke I.e poor camera movement, rather than a camera/software issue
I know. That’s like the whole point of the video.
get a PC
I honestly can’t be bothered with all the extra headaches that come with a PC