Cutting Helical Gears on the Horizontal Milling Machine: Setting up the Lead Attachment Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Cutting Helical Gears on the Horizontal Milling Machine: Setting up the Lead Attachment Part 1
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That is what I have been waiting to see for a long time. Thanks Keith keep on keeping on.
Yes I second that. Not a lot out there on this stuff
Me too. Its been a very long wait! But the end is in sight. 😊
I had visions of you firing up a lathe to make the stud, but finding the right (get'r done) bolt is an acceptable substitute. Thanks for another great video.
That's what I was expecting also. "Well guys I searched through my junk drawer and can't find the right stud but no matter.. I'm in a machine shop"
At least it was in a spot that he could just substitute a bolt for the time being. Definitely a lot faster in the end that way as well.
Fascinating! Been checking in every few days since the last Austin video to see if you were going to show how the helical gears were cut. This gear must be worth $50,000 by now!
No, pure gold!
Horizontal milling maching are my favorite machine tool because they are so versatile! Thanks Keith. Awesome
During my years doing machining I used dividing heads and rotary tables, but never a lead attachment. Looking forward to the next episode!!!
Thanks Keith for showing us how to set up the horizontal mill for helical gear making.
Oooh, finally, can't wait for the next part.
During the video I was constantly thinking about the process and noticed that you also have to feed with the spindle at an angle and was wondering how that was done, but in that last shot I saw that the whole table of the machine can swing around. That's crazy, can you maybe show more of that in the next part please?
Kind of a mechanical Arduino add-on, I guess. Great fun. These machine videos are very enjoyable to watch.
Yup. The base machine is a big Arduino, and all the little attachments are shields. And there's a whole theme park worth of them. A bit of a shame that nobody (as far as i know) on YT has all of them.
That is one heavy looking gear box. Nice having the lift table. I recently purchased a semi-universal indexing head. Considered the universal but didn't think I would ever use the table drive system & it was considerably more money. The one I bought is a knock off of the Brown & Sharp BS-1. 40 to 1 with three indexing plates. I have a set of Module 1.25 gear cutters on order. Have done a test run with a hand ground cutter, worked! I'm running on a 9x49 Jet mill. I will do all tooth counts to 300+ except for some prime #s. Wish me luck.
So fortunate to have all the pieces! I have been watching for 20 years for the stuff for my big Cincinnati and have never seen any of it.
Really interesting to see this set up, always wondered how it is done. Regarding the gear train, I was always taught to give each gear a couple of thou rattle clearance when setting the centre distances. Some people put a bit of rag or a couple of sheets of paper between the teeth as they tighten the banjo. Briefly ran some 1940's Lorenz gear shapers about 5 years ago, fascinating machines but incredibly complex.
Exactly! Whenever I need to change the gears on my 1959 Hofstetter & Co. S6 lathe I put a a piece of paper between the gears to get the right spacing. In the video the gears seem to turn quiet hard, they should turn without the help of that wrench. Seems like the top of the teeth rubbing against the ground.
Backlash is the proper term, I agree all gears need a certain amount of backlash depending on the application.
Seen a ton of machining videos.... Never seen anything like this before! Pretty excited to see it in action. Someone's CNC stuff aint got NOTHING on this.
Hello Keith: It appears that you do not have the auxiliary shaft installed which drives the attachment for certain leads.... There is a drive gear underneath the table that attaches to a splined shaft that in turn attaches to the lead attachment.... Also, on the output of the lead attachment, notice three nuts with slots under them ... This gives a bit of movement to align the dividing head properly.....With the auxiliary shaft in place, the dividing head or a rotary table can be driven without movement of the table... Cheers from Louisiana; Mike
I wonder if there is an online tool that will give you the closest gearing. I know that if I had a list of the gearings I could have a computer evaluate all of the combos to find the closest. This sort of thing should be a homework problem in math and computer science.
Keith - it'd be pretty easy to build a spreadsheet that calculated the gears you want for a particular lead. I'd be happy to do it if you want. Just send me the page with the formulas and a list of the change gears you have.
I think what you want is to calculate all of the possible ratios, then sort it in terms of lead, to create a searchable look-up table in a file. I don't think there is a way to directly calculate the gears required from the desired ratio without trial and error/iteration.
@@flat-earther It's been a couple of month now that you have been spewing this nonsense. I would have thought you would have sold out of this "flat earth" snake oil by now!! Oh well, it is good to see you are keeping P.T. Barnum's memory alive!!!
@@brettbuck7362 That's probably how I'd do it. But it might very well be possible to train a compact decision tree from the full database, so that the resulting spreadsheet was much more compact. Hadn't really thought in depth about it, since I knew that at very least, I could gin up the table search with very little work.
@@walnutclose5210 My point was that you can't solve it in closed form - depending on how you look at it, it's a single problem with one equation and 5 unknowns (worm set, A, B, C, and D gears) of 4 problems with one equation and 4 unknowns. Once you pick a set of gears it is unambiguous what ratio it gives, so I think you will have try all the combinations, get the ratio for each, then sort it that way. 42,000ish lines in a text file is a pretty small and easily searched with any text editor. So I think that is what I would do. If I knew what each of the possible gears was, I could do it for you/anyone, but I it's simple enough. I think Excel would be a harder road, it doesn't really lend itself well to a problem that looks like a few loops with very simple equations.
@@brettbuck7362 I agree. The problem is probably best cast as a combinatorial optimization problem, but it's a very small one, so the easiest solution is some form of exhaustive search, which is what you suggested. In the event, I wrote a small bit of javascript to populate a database of unique ratios achievable with the standard gear set into Google Sheets spreadsheet, and then sorted and searched that with standard Sheets data functions. Took a couple of hours to it right, mostly because the javascript for Sheets is so excruciatingly slow when actually manipulating the spreadsheet, that I had to rewrite and optimize to minimize spreadsheet operations.
I've been waiting for this video, and it was worth the wait.
The gear selection table looks like a prime application for spreadsheet software.
That wasn't too complicated... you are now qualified to build a nuclear reactor... pay increase in the works...
Gears! I have been eager for this project. Fascinating stuff. Thank you so much.
Glad to finally see this. I could not visualize what you were saying before, but it is getting clearer.
I calculated all the permutations of four change gears for 13 to 200 teeth on each; if you want a copy of that text file let me know, I'll send you an e-mail.
I am fascinated by the mathematics of this to do the cut.
I can't wait to see this contraption in action Keith.
Great stuff Keith. Leave a tiny amount of clearance between the gears in the attachment. You should be able to rotate the train freely by hand once all the nuts have been tightened up.
Think of the skill used to be designed and make these attachments for the lathes way back when.
I'd definitely make a setup part out of scrap or even plastic, so I can measure and compare what I made to the original. There's no shame in a setup part, right? :-D
Interesting project. You should probably think about making a few extra of these gears to justify the setup alone.
I was thinking the same thing! Once it's set up you could just switch blanks and make a few. Chances are somebody else out in the interwebs is needing one.
This is just a thought from me being typically lazy me (not so much lazy but just chronically pressed for time when wrenching my own machine's 😭) - I'd just leave the original stud on the attachment and run a die the next size down over the old threads, replace the old nut with the die & nut combo I had together in the shop at the same time and didn't have to leave to pick anything up hahaha. And that's because 93.6% of the time *my* luck dictates the f***in stud I'm trying to get out breaks off and now I'm messing with it longer 🤬
thank you friends, this video adds to my knowledge,
@~17:30 Couldn't you just flip that stud end for end? Just 🤔
That was probably how it should have been installed at the factory but got flipped around. No reason for that many threads to have been buried into the base casting. On most applications the short threaded end is for the anchor side of things and the long threaded end is for the part being held by the stud.
I look forward to the happy hum from the attachment when the new stud is installed....
Hard to tell on video, but it looks like there was no backlash in that gear train, you really want a little, tight together will cause issues with the way the gears run and increase the wear on the system.
I have been looking forward to this video, dude!
Uggg, I have to wait for more, anticipation ain't fun.
I would think that you would make a trial run on a scrap part , just to make sure you don't make an error in the setup.
All ways a good day to watch some machine work. Even if it is just working on the machine. But I got a questions. when you were looking at the math involved for setting the right gears, you have some change gears on your book. My question is, The splines? area in side those gears, is there a name for that style of ingaugements, and how are they cut? Vertical Slotting or shaper?
A split die opened up and it might fit and then closed over. Depending on the split in the die. Glad you found a bolt - assume you made a stud or used as a bolt.
Thanks, I've been watching this for a bit, I retired some time ago, having had hands on such a machine since 2000. This takes me back a bit to a machine shop in Moorhead City I used to work at, doing boat shafts for the fishing boats out of there. We did a fair amount of shaper work as well, tapers on shafts, and in shaft couplings. I just love the old machines.
Is it fair to say--in very basic terms--that the lead attachment is pretty much nothing more than a variable gearbox? Obviously the machine has to have the power tap-off in place on which to mount it and also the particular dividing head itself must have the facility to be turned mechanically rather than by hand.
Whatever the case it is an absolutely _fascinating_ little device!!! I don't know how you have managed to keep your hands off it all this time since you told us you had managed to pick one up! I would have been fiddling with it the moment it came into my workshop and my wife would be absolutely _sick_ of having to show interest for all the weird and wonderful variations of helical cogs I was churning out! All in the name of learning the ropes, obviously!!!
Brilliant video Keith--I absolutely cannot wait until part 2 comes along! Will you show us the set-up of the automated dividing head in the same depth of detail please?
Keith, about that banjo stud; I am struck by how few of the threads on the stud are actually coming through the banjo far enough to be engaged by the nut. Less than half, it would appear from the damage. And also that the nut is relatively thin, and the stud short. I take it there is some sort of clearance issue. So the solution would seem to be a nut with an extended land, or in simple terms, an extension of the threaded bit sticking out. This should be cut to just fit the banjo body groove, and extend through to give the nut a longer threaded length. It is of course not as strong as a thicker nut, but it has the advantage of retaining the clearance needed. The damaged stud could actually be turned down, and re-cut with the next of thread. That would advantageously allow a thicker wall to the extended threaded portion. Then the nut has a good deal more Thread contact, without becoming any thicker in relation to the face of the banjo. Just a thought, I hope you find it helpful.
As always Mr Rucker top notch 👌 👍... you always do very good work??????
Imaging going to work, boss says hey, design us an attachment that can have 42,362 different possible gear pitches cut by it, and can you have that to my desk by lunch tomorrow? 😮what! No way did one person come up with this thing in a short time. Likely started much more simple, then grew. And after some thinking and figuring they discover well!, this thing can do Soo many more things if we just add some gears that are interchangeable, and eventually they figure it out, and this is what you get!
Wow! That is quite a setup.
I wonder if Wolfram has these calculations in its library. It would be interesting to find out.
Love the video Keith, as always. As an Austin Seven restorer I would say I would never, ever be sufficiently skilled to attempt this, even if I had the equipment. But...but... it's fairly easy to find replacements for this timing gear?!
When the original videos came out, I also advised Keith a gear would be fairly easy to find. I live in Canada and own a '37 Ruby.
Been looking forward to seeing this. Thx for taking us along
All I can think about is that nasty drive shaft bracket with the mangled ear ;)
JK, Kieth. This is a fun project.
Thanks Keith for the video. I bet the engineer that work on the change gear table worn out a slide rule on that one.
thanks for taking the time to show all the details of setting up, a lot of times the setup is more difficult and takes longer than the job itself!
Just imagine what that set up originally cost!
Wow this video is the best I seen in books of the machine of all the attachments for the machine to make gears but never had the chance to use it all . I myself made a lot of gears in my times working . Your the best to watch love the old machine those are the one I work with in my times
I'll bet you actually understand what you just did, don't you? I'd like to visit your planet sometime.
Boss: "how in the H*** are we going to make this gear?" Engineer: "hold my beer...."
I really like that cart you used to hold the Lead Attachment while getting it attached to the Milling Machine. I could use an adjustable height cart like that. Looking forward to the next video.
Good Stuff!
It looked like you missed the oil cup for the large shaft; or maybe you did it off camera?
great , something interesting
Can’t wait to see it cutting gears, thanks.
Is it possible to just buy the gear you need from McMaster or Grainger or somebody?
A lot to the setup, It appears that you have done this before. Can't imagine what this would be like for a novice to set up for the first time. Doable but would take some time and close attention to the details. I have a lot of respect for the engineers that put all these together. Thanks very much for sharing.
Interested to know if you had to do an apprenticeship and who and where you did your time.
I think he said he took a job in a machinery place to put himself through college for another profession many episodes ago and that was where he got the bug for this and it always stayed with him.
The change gears can be divided,
The total must also be closed to gear ratio,is this simplified
I don’t know about that jam nut, but the stud looks like it’d be fairly easy to make a new one on a lathe by turning down and threading some bar stock. Extra little project for the channel. 😌
It is not a question of can he do it but is it worth for him to do it. The time to make a stud is time he can't be doing something more productive.
You didn't give those change gears any backlash, a couple pieces of paper between the gears when setting them gives a few thousandths of backlash.
Watching this from the UK, whenever I hear "I'll order that from McMaster", I'm left wondering if we have a UK equivalent?
I'm gonna GO AHEAD and watch part 2
nice!! liking the calculations required!
Everyone always asks "I wonder who designed this machine part?" Personally, I'd like to know who the poor guy was that had to try EACH and EVERY gear combination just to figure out the speeds for the manual. I can just imagine them spending hours and hours trying each one and marking it down. what a monotonous and tedious job.
About the stripped stud.
For crying out loud, you have a shop full of machine tools, including a lathe. Just make a new one.
He doesn't want to.
I've never seen how helical gears are or were cut manually - Looking forward to the next part, it appears to be a very interesting process - there's me thinking it was done by simply having the gear blank at an angle and cutting out the slots as usual, guided by the dividing head - but helical gears have a very slight curve cut in them so the teeth roll off each other - more noticeable on pinion and bevel gears in a differential drive.
I was thinking that as I was watching it. Why can't you just set the angle & cut it staight across?
Then I realized that it needs to follow the radius as it cuts on an angle.
A little brain exersize waching this.
Keith I'm surprised you don't just make a new stud???
Great video Keith, keep'um coming..
@@flat-earther what are you talking about?
I remember the last time we had the low lead attachment out. I love seeing this thing and seeing it used.
Thanks again Keith.....
Shoe🇺🇸
The order of things installing the 4 gears will be tested on the sloppy mechanism on the mini lath. Thanks!
A fascinating attachment - looking forward to seeing it in action.
I never throw old nuts and bolts away wheen I strip down stuff, there is always the nut or bolt I need in my box of bits
Thanks for tutoria❤
In which Keith screws up.
Could that gear be made on gear hobber would it be. Faster ?
Thanks for sharing.
If you put an actual $ figure on this gear as a job shop based on time😝
Thanks!, been waiting for this one :D
I have been looking forward to this...
That's a lot of work to get that attachment configured.
Part of my family used to be of Von Weiss gear I remember going through the shop and seeing all the different machines and all the different setups but I was way too young but for some reason I remember this and somebody setting up the same thing on a milling machine to do the same thing cut an angled gear interesting I'm truly enjoying this Keith thank you
@@flat-earther yes I already know I made it that way
@@izzynutz2000 Hi Izzynutz, Perinne here. Keith deleted my comments and blocked me from commenting, doing to others what he wouldn't want done to him.
On another note, if you already know that's great, pleasant surprise.
Stud puller 👍
Thank You !
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.👍👀
Ads?
I've been waiting for this video for 6 months
Very interesting. Thanks
Great video
I've really been looking forward to it.
Hi kieth it's me the guy with car that needed that gear. Good news, I found a brand new one on ebay for $4.35 so I wont need you to make one. Cool setup tho 👍
Why not make a machine nut and stud?
He doesn't want to!
i like the way you still use old school maths keith to acheive your settings!
Good evening Georgia!👍
Nice !
Waiting to see this.. Last post, btw
What happened to jimmy the rest is bandsaw? Are you ever going to finish it?
He talked about it at the end of his recent Odds and Ends 137 video. He’s hoping to work on it again in the next month or two. But he has to finish the Lucas horizontal boring mill repairs first.
@@jaydoherty8402 Thanks for the update
That looks like the gears on my SB lathe.