@@seb24789 yep they felt they needed a teenager to hook in the younger crowd but when people found out basch was supposed to be the main an overwhelming majority of people who played ff12 would've preferred basch an wanted vaan as a side character
I think the comment about a “normal” gay character is true even beyond the realm of gaming. Not every gay character needs to be flamboyant, feminine, and annoying. David himself looks like a god damn MMA fighter. I wish people would start learning to separate homosexuality from being a sissy. That was a tired stereotype decades ago.
@@searchingstuff Though I understand your perspective, it's a nice feeling to know there are more people with a shared aspect of one's self in a community
@The Deadpool Who Chuckles. Me too basically haha. I've been binging his videos recently, and now seeing this just makes me appreciate his content a little more. Also, I really love your "The Batman Who Laughs" reference in your username
Okay, also just watched a video where David says Sylvando is his favorite DQ character by far. Which is not too surprising, how could you not love Sylvando? The video was "Final Fantasy Versus Dragon Quest".
In Squall's defense, A) most of his complaints were in his own head, B) his party members all tended to be varying degrees of unprofessional screw ups, C) he was constantly frustrated by the fact that his -military- *mercenary* academy kept putting him in charge of things (because of temporal shenanigans that we only find out about at the very end of the game) despite the fact that he had just graduated and was obligated to bring screw ups like everyone in his party that wasn't a dog (especially Zell) along onto his missions, and D) equipping Guardian Forces for extended periods during training scrambled his memories so that he was feeling the separation anxiety from his sister being taken from him but had no idea that was what was behind the sensations he was experiencing, so he wasn't able to actually learn how to cope with it and therefore defaulted to trying his damnest not to form bonds with anyone else until Rinoa practically stapled herself to him. Basically, all of Squall's problems basically stem from the fact that Cid was terrible at running an orphanage, a school, and a PMC, which in turn was because Cid was doing most of that in an attempt to (mercy) kill his wife and fulfill a prophecy at the same time.
xD a very thorough and well thought-out defense! I re-played FF8 a few years ago after not having touched it since high school and saw Squall in a new light largely because of how stupid everyone else in his party is. I think FF8 is the funniest FF game if you don't try to take it seriously and just enjoy the stupidity of the story and the characters.
Thinking about it, I might have been a bit unfair to Selphie. She was a bit ditzy and hyperactive, as well as apparently being a bad pilot, but she also was pretty competent at her school activities, and figured out that keeping a journal can help mitigate the effects that Junctioning can have on one's memory. I don't recall her actually doing anything especially stupid off the top of my head, unless she ended up hooking up with Irvine off screen.
I think this game was released back when the "I Hate Everybody" guy, was what everybody thought was extremely cool. I'm not 100% but I believe Squall was modelled off of a K-Pop artist who was the whole "Bad-boy" archetype. Don't quote me on that I'm just kind of remembering something along those lines.
Zell has a personality?? What did I miss? I've beaten this game twice in my life and all I remember is him saying "OHHHH YEAAHH" and something else about hot dogs.
Squall’s character evolves throughout the story. He starts out being an asocial tough guy jerk because when he was little he was orphaned and then “sis” left so he gets used to not getting attached to people, but by the end he learns to let people in. He also clearly cares about his team as he rushes in to save them without any regard for his own safety on more than one occasion
Machias? He wasn't that bad. I really can't hate on any of the characters in the Trails series though. Now Hope from FF13, there's an irritating character. Whine, whine whine. plus the most useless Eidolon in the game.
Yeah, I have to agree on you with Hope. Especially once you meet his father, I felt no sympathy for him after that. His father seemed like a good guy, at least to me he did.
A lot of the “drama” of FFXIII was just ridiculously contrived, especially Snow being blamed for the death of Hope’s mom. He just glossed over the big, bad, scary machines firing at civilians on the government’s orders. Moreover, his mom made her choice. She knew what she signed up for. *_Her agency should matter._* I get him not being entirely aware of everything that’s going on, but I’m sorry, I just don’t believe that anyone would do what Hope did. An equivalent thing would be if Eren just ignored the Titans and instead directed all of his rage at Hannes because he didn’t try and lift a huge fucking beam off of his mother. That Eren would get super fucking annoying, super fucking quick. Just like Hope did.
@@MajorTeag Snow was a decent guy too. Annoying but his heart was in the right place. And you have to deal with Hope spending half the game plotting to kill him. What a little brat.
@@radicaldreamer927 Glad to see someone is on the same page as me. Hope's misplaced rage and angst is so irritating. I love Final Fantasy games and I'm used to angsty heroes. Hell I'm a Goth, i now angst inside and out, but Hope is a long ways away from Cloud/Squall. He just kind of sucks. If I remember right, I barely used him anyway.
@@rayceeya8659 Yeah, it felt like he was always throwing a sorta temper tantrum, just instead of screaming and stomping his feet; he just pouted and sulked and wanted to kill the person he thought killed his mother.
I think the worst thing about twins in fantasy settings is that you ALWAYS know what the dynamic is going to be, regardless of how good their characters are individually. The boy is the brash, hot head and the girl is the calm and composed one who has to reign him in and keep him from doing stupid things.
Uh yeah it kind of does, it’s called perspective. You find out the reason that Squall acts that way which retroactively makes him less annoying because you NOW you get it. Edit: grammatical error.
@@leezus7875 It makes their issues understandable, not necessarily bearable. While it has the potential to make them less annoying, it's not a guarantee. A half of the people on this list have a reason for their behavior. Do those reasons excuse them?
Arc Caravan Not sure, don’t know them well enough, and depends on their individual reasons. What I do know is that Squall’s development and backstory make his earlier behavior more sympathetic, if you are paying enough attention.
He really was one of a kind. Knew when to be high energy and cheerful...and when to put on his serious face and keep to being a serious boy. He wasn't half bad at a support role either.
When you said, "Why can't the gay characters just be normal?" during the Makoto bit, I finally feel like someone shares my pain for a decent gay character in a videogame. Not over the top, not so unnoticeable it seems non-existant, but just how a gay dude might hint to one another. Being bi myself this is also a question I have asked for so long. While it is a little funny, could be done waaaaaaaaay better.
seeing as Ashe was supposed to be the protagonist and Vaan & Penelo were added in late in development because the higher ups wanted younger characters "in order to boost sales potential", the points made about Vaan aren't remotely surprising....
@Ikki Vaan was significantly better in both FFXII Revenant Wings and FFTa2. It's a shame he became more likeable in games most people probably haven't played.
Not true Vaan was there pretty early in development if you look at the announcement trailer of FF12 back in 2003 he is literally in the game. Vaan was always in the games script
Squall only started out antisocial. Learning to lead his team was part of his character development. He ended up being quite the dynamic character without flipping a heel-face 180. I could make plausible argument that Squall was in fact a well-written character in a terribly-written story. Same with Luke. It took a tragic plot twist, but he actually picks up some self awareness, and is decent as a character by the end of the game.
Machina from FF Type-0. He’s constantly whining throughout the game and then the ending expects us to like/feel for him. A cardboard cutout would of been a more impactful character!
10:55 How dare you!? Luke constantly harassing and abusing Mieu is one of his greatest redeeming character traits! Granted I have an unreasonable, seething hatred for mascot characters.
Van was horrible. Probably the worst. He was originally supposed to be Basch. He single Handedly brought an amazing game down by his lack of character and ability to lead all because executives wanted to appeal to younger players
but it took him long enough to grow in this game and even then he isn't really that interesting compared to the other characters in this game. I really liked Jusis to begin with, because he didn't just let machias bash him and always got back on him with bashing him back. He at least took it cool enough.
Honestly, the whole cast of FFVIII is pretty annoying. Irvine is probably the least annoying, but even then he's a sniper who can't kill and he follows Selphie around like a puppy.
You will never convince me that Victor is gay. The "is he...?" kind of thing is a trope used for comedic effect in Japan. He's just fiercely loyal to his duty and enjoys the company of people he sees as strong and honorable. If anything, he may lean closer to asexual as he's really only interested in training and his work. Then there's the failed relationship with an old lover of his. One might argue that it failed because she knew he was gay or something but I just don't think that's the case. I think it would be like saying Goku is gay. If you want lgbtq done decently, I think the borderlands series does well.
@@Terranigma23 Actually Lost Odyssey was going to be Final Fantasy XI right after FFX, before Square went to the online route. As for FFXV, it's a pretty decent game. Not the best, but not the worst either.
@@Terranigma23 No offense, but your comment is subjective. I like turn based JRPG's much less FF games. But just because a FF is an action based and not turn based doesn't mean it's not a Final Fantasy game. Also you stated "except FFXII" what did you mean by that?
Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:50] - 10) Nash - Lunar Silver Star Story Complete [2:09] - 9) Jupis - Rogue Galaxy [3:18] - 8) Makoto - Enchanted Arms [4:31] - 7) Squall - Final Fantasy VIII [5:20] - 6) Vaan - Final Fantasy XII [6:23] - 5) Chiepoo - Suikoden IV [7:49] - 4) Machias - Trails of Cold Steel 1 [9:34] - 3) Luke - Tales of the Abyss [11:18] - 2) Cooke and Mack - Lost Odyssey [12:58] - 1) Emil - Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
I totally dont agree with Luke. In the beginning he was like, yea, spoiled little shit. But he gets such an amazing character transformation. He gets amazing.
@@mrsgamer9218 Luke gets among the best character development in the whole series. I respect him as a character because he eventually understands his actions have consequences, and he makes up for it. I honestly would prefer a character that is flawed and gets better over a character that is just good from the getgo.
Luke really does get a bad rap, and honestly I think that goes a little bit for Emil too. I can understand "why" people don't like their characters, but at the same time I appreciate that they're different, and it's not like people like that don't exist. While I wouldn't choose to play as someone like that for every JRPG, variety is the spice of life, and the two of them admittedly do grow and change by the end of the game.
I mostly agree with your list. I will say though that I'd rather have a person not mention their sexuality on an adventure unless they're going to do something with it.
I actually liked Luke. His being such an unlikeable tool makes his later transition to maturity more engaging and everyone else's rallying around him (and spoiler: Tear falling in love with him) all the more believable. Luke reminded me of a super exaggerated version of Justin from Grandia 1 in the beginning, and both had a coming of age arc. God I miss Tales of the Abyss now.
Honestly, I find Rean hundred times more annoying than Machias. I absolutely cannot stand protagonists with harems and find all of these harem scenes with him incredibly annoying. Though I guess I don't so much dislike him as a character as the concept of him. I also quit Tales of the Abyss for at least several months because of annoying Luke was. When I got back to it, I realized that you are supposed to find him annoying at first and that is actually kind of brilliant. And thanks for reminding me of the existence of Chiepoo. 😩 I don't find him so much annoying as kind of creepy and unsettling, especially in the sequel. Actually, I find all of Suikoden Tactics kind of creepy.
@@gaspenpayne6755 Fair enough I guess. 😄 And Elise, Alfin, and especially Musse would all be on my women's list for sure...I cringed every time either of these three opened their mouths.
Ouch I agree with everyone but with Machias and Luke :( Personally I thought Luke was a super engaging character (Not likeable) but he had such an awesome presence. It was an interesting dynamic to have a jrpg protagonist who was a huge asshole for once. Anyways loved your videos, and I especially agree with the lack of positive LGBT+ party members in jrpgs.
The point of the list was "annoying" characters, and I'd agree Luke was interesting even though he'd fit the criteria, if he didn't "grow up" afterwards.
Lunar Silver Star Story was one of my faves as a kid but damn, didn't I want to punch Nash's face every time I saw him. If I'm not mistaken, we had to save him from the swamp monster but he had the gall to act arrogant afterwards lol
10: Should be noted he wasn't a traitor in the Sega CD version, he was a double agent. PS1 version the made him a straight up traitor. 9: Hey Numbah 1. I like Jupis, shitlord worked for his goals. "Jar Jar Binks knockoff." Darth Jar Jar: Do not compare me to this one, I am the Dark Lord of the Sith, he who was behind ALL! 8: Makoto is hard to defend. Also another example of Japan not being the most understanding of countries. 7: Not defending Squall, boring as hell. People compare Cloud to him, but every single game Cloud appears in outside of 7 don't actually do a good job of showing Cloud's character. 6: A reminder that Vaan stole the Main Character role from Balthier, Vaan's present is borderline pointless. 5: You dissing my homie Chiepoo? Took him to end game. What? I prefer Non-Humans to Humans, they are less boring. :| 7:05 "Does Chiepoo have to smack a bitch?" 4: SKIP! 3: To quote the God Emperor of Man from 'What if the Emperor had a Text to Speech device.' when it comes to Luke's handling in that game; "About Fucking Time, I have so many things to Complain about.". .....But there's no spoilers for the game in this video, So I'll refrain. 2: Hi Phil and Lil from Rugrats (For real, Cooke's VA is them. Maybe Mack's as well, but eh don't feel like looking it up right now.). Yeah, Kids in JRPG, I don't get Japan's insistence on doing this constantly. 1: No defending Emil. None One abandoned LP had a fucking counter for how many times he says "I'm Sorry".
Same. Ashe should have been the main character. Ff12 is a bit like 10. Male "protagonist" while the story revolves around Ashe and Yuna. Unlike Vaan Tidus actually served a purpose. His "amnesia" served a perfect excuse for exposition. His connection to sin actually makes his inclusion in the story make sense.
I hated Luke with all my heart in the begining, but his "redemption" arc is just amazing, and easily makes the game one of the best J-RPGs ever. With that said, Vaan from FFXII is AWFUL, really. He's overshadowed even by Gilgamesh short appearance, which is a shame, cause the game itself is really good, but daaaaaaamn, the protagonist...
Ahhh, come on... Vaan's not that bad. He's pretty bland, but he's a good-hearted kid, and he gets some decent lines here and there. His scene with Ashe in Jahara is one of my favorites. At the very least, his revenge subplot is quickly and maturely resolved instead of extended out into the most melodramatic B-plot of all time, COUGH, HOPE, COUGH.
@@matthewhostetter8974 Yeah, Vaan really is a background character in the group, but he also does a good job of contextualizing everything from the eyes of an outsider/commoner. I think he serves his role in the story well and really enjoy seeing him become more confident as a fully fledged sky-pirate in the sequel/spin-off. Hope... God, I hated everything that came out of that boy's mouth. Same with Snow... And Vanille... I really did not enjoy FFXIII.
@@jord_yy Haha I honestly think you are completely right! If Vaan didn't have such a nasally voice I think people would like him a lot better, but I'll be honest, it's really grown on me. Gives him character.
Omg, bless your heart for sticking Chiepoo on this list. Suikoden IV is such an outlier in the series for me, honestly, but Chiepoo being a mandatory early-game party member is probably the most intolerable thing about it for me. (And then continuing to be a main character after that, too, for some reason...) He is so *incredibly* annoying!! In a game with a slow and muddled plot, frustrating overworld travel, lackluster battle system and *Snowe*, it is honestly a testament to how much Chiepoo bugged me that I still consider him one of the worst things in the game. This was an inspired pic, my dude.
I actually like 4. It primarily suffers from (as you said) poor overworld travel (slow + high encounter rate) and lackluster character scripting. The presence of Chiepoo is very strange though. I was convinced he was in league with the ship's nameless cook since I had to buy food from him instead. Also, stranded on an island hunting mutant crabs while he still has soup to sell you? I called it the Mackerel Miso Stew Conspiracy. I get they needed a way for you to get items early on, but couldn't they make food a drop or something?
I glad you did not put Morgana on the list. I know the guy has some writing flaws. He shoukd be nicer to Ryuji and his tantrum is pretty dumb I still love his character. He is my favorite Video game Character right now. But I can see other people finding him annoying. Although that whining about him advising Joker to go to bad I dont understand. Those complains make no sense to me.
I'd argue that Vaan is'nt the protagonist of FF12, Balthier and Ashe are the protagonists. Vaan is just the medium from which the story is told, kind of like a narrator of sorts.
I find it funny that both Squall and Vaan are on this list over the likes of Edward, Cait Sith, and Hope... all who are utterly useless and pointless... At least Squall and Vaan have some redeeming qualities being the MC's of their respective games, even other people outshine them. Name one good thing the other three ever did, besides annoy you.
@@acarbonbasedlifeform70yeah, I get all of that.. are we positive it was a man though? I can't remember all of the dialogue, but is he/she ever referred to as "he"?
@@acarbonbasedlifeform70 seriously? I've beaten that game at least 15 times.. how did I never realize that? For whatever reason I just thought it was some nameless, faceless Shinra drone.
I like Machias but one thing that bothered me is how he was friends with Rean but then all of a sudden started hating him after finding out he was a noble, fortunately they reconciled though. I do find his rivalry with Jusis entertaining to watch
he iratonally hated nobility cause they sorta ruined his family. remember the game was like highschool so him being an illogical moron towards them isnt totally crazy espically after his backstory. not to mention after CS2 and CS3 i dont blame him for getting to that point in the first place even if it is a bit misguided lmao
Well, Machias also felt like Rean lied to him since he said that he technically wasn't a noble (which was true because Rean's family situation is complicated.)
@@kyethememer9836 Like I said, Rean's situation is complicated. Chapter 2 of CS1 is partially about challenging Machia's black and white world view of nobles when he learns about Rean's adoption and Jusis's bastard status.
The worst part of ToS Dawn of the New World is actually the like someone's garbage ocs got thrown into an amazing world that had a great story and they destroyed it with this game.
Yeah, I actually really respect Vaan in FFXII. He might not be integral to the story, or particularly interesting, but he isn't melodramatic, is genuinely nice, and acts as a good supporting character for the rest of the party. He's a good kid.
Vaan isn't annoying. He's just there, without no proper role or impact to the plot, and happened to be the main character of a Final Fantasy title. I don't hate him as much and get why he's disliked, but sometimes it seems like he gets a lot of hate for existing.
@@sharilshahed6106 I mean, he does have a role in the story, being the perspective character, but yeah, in terms of the overall main story he's mostly just there to convince Ashe not to go through with using the nethicite to destroy the Empire. He's not amazing, but he's very underappreciated I would say.
regarding gay characters in JRPG: THANKS exactly my thought. The real only JRPG char which i found ok and funny was the "wrestler" in Shadow hearts 2 (forgot the name).... otherwise.... nah and in western RPGs they either are full on Bi Sexual (EVERY character which is also stupid like in Dragon Age) or over the top
Except Luke evolves, A LOT. Seriously though I hated him and even more so at this portion. But considering what happened afterwards, that felt pretty intentional in part of the narrative and boy how he starts eating one humble pie after the other. He's actually really likeable afterwards. Its sad to see people don't appreciate his character development as much. Jade is no doubt the best, but Abyss is no doubt the best in terms of storytelling.
@@sharilshahed6106 I loved Abyss but i pretty much agree with David that Luke swings the pendulum too far too quickly to be believable. Going from spoiled rotten kid for the first like 20 hours of the game to selfless hero in the span of one cutscene was pretty ridiculous. A better version of him is Tidus of FFX who at least has some redeeming qualities at the start get some development during the game but still has some annoying aspects to him by the end. People can change but only to a certain extent.
@@jonathanabgrall6075 I really couldn't stand Tidus either, because his daddy issues are so damn annoying and that laugh scene. Oh, my GOD! SHUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH!
Yeah, Nash is pretty bad. Although it's easy to ignore his Sleep spell on a first playthrough, because if you discover how useful it is (or Luna's sleep song) the game basically becomes broken. I could go my whole life without hearing him say "Check this out!" and doing a spin in the air ever again though.
This list is so perfect, I hated Squall so much that I couldn't even finish FF8. Vaan wasn't originally gonna be the main character in FF12. They originally wrote Basch as the main character but then later in development suddenly decided they should have younger characters to "appeal to the kiddos" so they added Vaan and Penelo. They feel shoe-horned into the story because they literally were. Looking forward to your most annoying jrpg women list :) That's gonna be a tough one to narrow down to just 10 lol
Vaan has more relevance as a POV character for the Rabanastran commoner than Fran does... who is basically a T&A filler who has less than 200 lines in the game.
@@Fa1nTy Vaan as a POV character is a fair justification. Especially since they borrowed so many themes from Star Wars which used the droid duo the same way.
How can you say Vaan doesn't have a clear role in the story? He obviously is the Trophy-barely-legal Twink of the game that you can fantasize becomes some sort of "slave Leia" for whoever you want to drop him to.
You should do some videos on the .Hack game series at some point (I'm mainly referring to the PS2 IMOQ series). I'm longplaying each one of them on my channel, I only have Outbreak and Quarantine left to get through. I'm also the first person to ever record, and upload, a longplay of .Hack//Fragment, which is all in Japanese with a little bit of English patching completed. That was really fun to play through, even though I couldn't understand most anything that was being said.
"Has there ever been a character so bad that it made you put the game down and walk away from it for a year?" Yes actually and it was Jade, not Luke. You do realize that Luke is seven years old right? He's also a completely sheltered royal as well. This was all because Asch was kidnapped as a kid, cloned and replaced by Luke. Does that make him less annoying, not really but it makes me think differently of him. If anyone in the cast was the most annoying though then it would have to be Jade. He was the oldest of the group, a military leader, a genius and knew exactly what Luke was and what that meant. Yet the way he treated who was essentially a child, was abuse. Jade is a child abuser and the rest of the cast except for Natalia were all almost just as bad. Luke is a seven year old in a 17 year old's body who had to learn LITERALLY everything (talking, walking, eating, wiping his own ass) all in the body of a ten year old. All this while also going through puberty fucking his mind and body up. This coupled with his very sheltered royal upbringing, made for a person who didn't know or understand the same social cues "normal" people do. Holding Luke to the same standards as the rest of the party or anyone in general is just wrong. None of it was his fault. He didn't know any better, not due to ignorance but due to circumstance. Almost everyone know this about him too except for Natalia and maybe Anise yet they all treated him like shit to the point they drove him to Vaan knowing what it would bring. Instead of them taking their knowledge of what Luke is and dealing with him accordingly, they all decided to ostracize him instead. Meanwhile you can see that Luke knew something was wrong with the way he interacted with people but didn't know what to change or how to change it as again, he was seven years old. He tried to do better and everyone kept putting him down.
While I agree with your defense of Luke somewhat, you have to keep in mind that all of that is stuff that gets revealed to you throughout the game. If David dropped the game when he was sick of Luke harassing Mieu, it was probably towards the beginning of the game where all you know about Luke is that he's a whiny little shithead.
@@Soeupe You actually find out about the fact that Luke lost all his memories and was under house arrest pretty much his entire life with nothing to alleviate his boredom except training with Van at the start of the game. I don't recall *exactly* when you find out that he literally had to start from zero instead of the comparatively convenient versions of amnesia that is usually depicted in fiction very easily in (when they were berating Luke for not knowing basic information aunt some socio-economic thing and he says that he was busy trying to learn his parents' faces at the time that most people learned that kind of stuff).
@@haseoxv9508 It should probably be noted that Guy had entered the service of the Fon Fabre household specifically to assassinate Luke to attain vengeance against Luke's dad, though he changed his mind about that. Also, he was technically Van's liege lord and was fully aware that Van was manipulating Luke for something against his best interests, though admittedly he didn't know how far Van was really intending to take his own plots.
In all fairness, while they don't use the exact term, Jade is depicted as essentially being a sociopath and not only fully aware of it, but spending his entire life trying to fix, or at least mitigate, that about himself since he's fully aware how he's directly/indirectly responsible for almost everything bad that is happening, and that his issues have caused incalculable pain to the handful of people that he actually cares about. I actually like the Abyss cast, but they tend to turn their moral blinders up to Eleven whenever Luke is on screen, mostly because the entire world of Aldurant send to be designed around breaking Luke's heart into itty-bitty pieces as often as possible. Also, Natalia definitely knew about his "amnesia," as part of Luke's constant annoyance with her when we first meet her may have something to do with how she keeps trying to get him to regain his memories, which would essentially erase the Luke that currently exists, if amnesia had actually been what was going on there. I think that Anise learned about how memory issues as well, but she definitely knew that he was a 7 year old replica when she and the rest of the party sans-Meiu/Tear abandoned him in a hellworld, but Anise is basically a bundle of psychological issues in the shape of a little girl due to her own messed up upbringing basically forcing her to become the adult in her family and then being manipulated by Mohs due to that fact.
I will actually be one of the few people to defend Squall. Being abandoned by literally everyone you're attached to would kind of make sort of adopt a cold and distant personality, so his lone wolf personality makes sense even if it is a played out trope today. Yet everyone in the world of dumbasses that is Final Fantasy 8, seems to think Squall is the best person to comment on their problems and give them advice, which baffles me as its clear the dude just wants to be left alone and his advice is going to be "go talk to a wall", its basically the equal to asking Peter Parker for relationship advice, then being suprised when your girlfriend ends up dead or you get a divorce for making a deal with Satan. Factor in the scale of the people he's forced to work with and are the closest thing he has to friends. -A man who opens the game by slashing him across the face and wants to be the "knight" to the ultimate evil in the world, -His thirsty teacher who is basically hitting on him constantly, -A man with ADHD who in a world of giant robots and fire arms thinks "im'ma punch em" is good combat tactics, -A sharpshooter (who uses a shotgun mind you) and hits on anything with a pair of legs and tits, -A girl who im pretty sure inhales paint in her off time, -And a resistance leader who's carefully thought out over months plans include kidnapping the president by literally hooking his train to your base and driving away while his gaurds hopefully dont notice, and to stop the all powerful evil sorceress by hoping she puts on this magic supression braclet you give her. Seriously the fact Squall saves all of reality and didnt at any point try to swallow his gunblade and pull the trigger is a testament to his patience and leadership skills if anything.
Hey! Emil’s my buddy! How dare you...! His development through out the game was good in my opinion. But this is your video so i’ll calm down and i’m sorry
Emil was a all time sis. He did nothing but talk cowardly the whole game. I wanted ratatosk the whole game, Emil deflated his heroism by always being in decisive and frankly cowardly. Very horrible protagonist in my opinion.
@@hunterthejokethegamerandst5567 I get it that he was meant to cater to the sensitive kind of kind hearted male but he was just really bad. I wanted Marta to be done with him so badly and take Ratatosk or Loyd even. His backbone was non existant in much of the game and I dont see how that would stimulate any female to want to reproduce with him because of fear of the offspring being killed.
I like Nash despite him having a punchable face, his scenes with Mia were pretty entertaining when he lost his overly arrogant facade. As for the gay men in rpgs, they do tend to be extremely over the top. However, my brother is gay, and most of his friends are gay, and I'm friends with quite a few gay guys myself. The flamboyant side can come off really strong at times, I don't think being gay is as accepted in Japanese culture in particular, though they are apparently getting better in more recent times. I think that the more flamboyant types have left more of an impression to them than it should have, and it's dramatized in standard over the top anime style in too many games that feature them. If they are featured at all. Hopefully one day they can do it justice.
I've never considered Vaan as the protagonist of FF XII. He is just a witness observing the plot develop. It seems to be intended like this. If you list Machias for his initial personality, Jusis isn't better at all. At least Machias is a useful support caster while the only thing useful about his noble classmate is his Noble Command skill. To me, one really annoying character is Lezard from Valkyrie Profile. Even without knowing the story of the first game when I played Silmeria, it was way too obvious that he couldn't be trusted. I already couldn't stand him while he was with the party (and he was useless in battle as well) but when he turned out to be the main antagonist he became downright annoying. I actually like psychotic characters if they are well written, but this self-proclaimed god wasn't. I enjoyed his final scenes even more though.
Vaan is like Ishmael from Moby Dick, the viewpoint character, but secondary to the actual plot. In universe, Vaan is basically the muscle of the group, seeing as he's by far the best overall fighter in the game. He doesn't really play a big role in the plot, but without him around, the main group probably wouldn't have been able to make it through all the battles that they had to.
Ryuji Sakamoto from Persona 5 is personally the most annoying male in any JRPG I encountered. He's a very slow learner and his cluelessness aggravated me to no end on numerous occasions.
Let's also not forget that he almost outs the team on multiple occasions, He shouted that they're the phantom thieves on live TV for God's sake. But him getting punished in Shinjuku was pretty funny. Maybe that should've been the moment where he finally learns to keep his mouth shut.
Luke is essentially an infant, completely sheltered his entire life. It makes perfect sense why he is the way he is. And even before he cuts his hair, he does notice things with people and care at times. He doesn't know how to take his entire world suddenly changing, even the party realizes at times that they're being way too hard on Luke cus he literally does not know better. Van was the only meaningful connection he had made, even moreso than his own parents because Van knew what he was and was able to manipulate him as a result. Him going so hard the other way is, again, cus he's literally single digit years old and trying to do what he assumes is what good people do. The party continues to call him out and try to guide and help him realize that the complete self sacrifice "my life is worthless" thing isn't good either. In my opinion, Luke is the most developed and well written protagonist of any JRPG game I've played tbh, and it's been my favorite genre of game since the PS1 days
@Weston Meyer that's the point, he doesn't know how to change, he goes hard in the other direction and the party continues to call him out on it cus he doesn't have the experience to know how to be a "good" person, he continues to grow slowly with the help of the party
tales of the abyss did that to me too, i also hated jade. i literally could not finish it, Luke sucked, jade sucked, the girl with the teddy bear sucked, guy was kind of good but had a stupid anime "quirk" that they then tried to make deep and intense. nah, i loved tear, but that was the last game that i resold to gamestop, even though i got next to nothing, because i just wanted it gone.
I can’t believe so many people like Jade. He is a horrible character, and he is only saved by the fact that Anise is almost as terrible. Tear was the only saving grace that game had.
"Squall's selfishness makes no sense in the context of the story." Did you play Final Fantasy VIII? Because it doesn't sound like you did. Squall's personality is dictated by childhood trauma. He isn't a dick, he is apathetic by experience. He is anti-social through a lived experience that causes him to view emotional connections as temporary and ultimately painful because they end, and they end abruptly. Squall is the only character of the cast who lost a sibling that he actually knew. None of the other cast have gone through the level of trauma that Squall had. In fact the game shows you that his life was basically orchestrated to be this way. Did you watch him during his military outings? Squall is a picture perfect soldier. He doesn't take anything on alone (in fact he hates having responsibility thrusted upon solely himself) and understands what fighting as a unit is. He compartmentalizes his personal feelings and his military duty all the time in the game. When it comes time for him to be reliant on people, he is. Never is this more proven than when Cid hands over leadership of the military functions of Balamb Garden to Squall and he delegates the necessary responsibilities to those best suited to the tasks. It's fine if you don't like his personality or him as a character, but your reasoning lacks understanding and sounds like it came from someone who played only the opening of the game. EDIT: Also Vaan is annoying as fuck, but unfortunately he is also the actual best character in the game in terms of stats so unfortunately he is needed.
Squall has a lot of traumas and trust Issues like you said and is only in his monologues that we see his true Personality but to everyone else Squall looks like the perfect soldier or an Asshole with his catchphrase Whatever which he uses to deflect conversation and not connect with people, squall is just a Kid pretending to be an adult people most people seem to not able to understand that or even see it, Heck I get people saying stupid shit like Tidus wasn't needed in FF X or he was Disrespectful to everyone like wtf? Do people really expect people to respect other cultures just because? In The context of FF X Tidus was 100% correct anyway.
I actually kinda like Vaan for what he is, the company-mandated teen boy POV character. He acts pretty realistically (neither overly angsty or competent, nor a complete Pollyanna). The little story he does have (getting over his desire for revenge, first against Basch and then the empire) serves as a decent foil to Ashe's increasing bloodlust and I enjoy the few moments they share over their figurative and literal ghosts. There were foundations for a good character in there but just like everyone else he seems to suffer from the chaotic development of the game. :/ Also I'm guessing the only reason Algus from FFT didn't make the list was because he was just a guest character cuz holy shit that was a really well done example of how to purposefully make a character annoying (and then a downright shithead)
Yeah, while I loved Lost Odyssey and it is one of my favorite games on the 360, I will admit that Cooke and Mack can be a bit annoying. I got especially annoyed with Mack when he wanders away the two times. Though I myself found Tolten to be more annoying. One I was surprised that wasn't on here though is Marumaro from Blue Dragon. He probably has the most annoying voice in the world and worse yet he has to scream out all the time.
I do thinl Tolten is annoying at least he had reasons: he never wanted and felt prepared to the role he was thrown in, so it is easy to be a little whiny in this case and he noticed how people near him exploited his lack of expertise in dealing with politics, so he is not a confident guy like any other character. I am ok with him as a character, just find him a little underwhelming to play. Cooke and Mac can be extremely helpful later in the game, so it bothers way more.
@@lordeilluminati Yeah, and plus they are important to the story, so they are featured way more. Plus kids are annoying a lot of times, so it would seem weird to have a kid like Cooke or Mack act like a full-grown adult.
Dear god, Vaan annoys the shit out of me. I really don't understand his role as the protagonist. I mean, ok his brother was offed during the invasion but still... the game absolutely forgot about him. Zell annoyed me too. Squall was a little better in my opinion but chicken wuss really got on my nerves and he gets benched every single chance I get!
As a masculine gay guy who usually hates flamboyant stereotypes... I actually fell in love with Sylvando from Dragon Quest XI. That boy had me laughing and smiling the whole way through the game.
Shaggy well as well as being over the top in jrpgs and anime they are also depicted as rapist or they usually sexually harass the other characters, slyvando on the other hand doesn’t do that he’s just a funny gay guy
The most annoying characters on the list for me are nash and squall. Hell, you could make the list the entire cast of FF8 and I'd agree with it. I know that game has its fans (I'm glad you enjoy it), but I couldn't stand playing it. To be fair, I haven't played it since the original release.
Glad for content like yours! I love JRPGs and also wish for more openly gay main characters. I’d love to see myself represented in that way. I loved Sorey in Tales of Zestiria, I related to him a lot, and his sexuality was ambiguous enough that you really could imagine him as gay and it’s not a stretch at all
You do bring up very valid points. However, protagonists should have been their own video... and Jesus dude... you really gotta roast my favorite protagonist squall like that? Oof
I hear a lot of "he gets better" about Luke, but the truth is that he doesn't. He's still a selfish, whiny asshole. It's still all about him, and it's still attention-seeking behavior. He may have cut his hair, but he didn't change. Not really. Machias, on the other hand, does change. He grows more accepting as the game goes on, and we find out more and more about why he feels the way he does. It doesn't make his initial behavior acceptable, but it gives us some much-needed context that lets us empathize. Anyways, Sylvando may be over-the-top, but it fits with his character and motivation, and he's honestly the best-written character that I've ever seen in Dragon Quest. He has personality, goals, insecurities, flaws, everything that makes a character feel really real. Sylvando wasn't the main character, but he was the star of that game (for me anyways). Great list, as always.
Vaan is the worst since he wasn't originally supposed to be the main character
Was he? I heard he was shoehorned in because they wanted a pretty boy on the cover instead of Basch aor Ashe.
@@seb24789 If that was the case why didn't they just put Balthier on the cover?
@@seb24789 yep they felt they needed a teenager to hook in the younger crowd but when people found out basch was supposed to be the main an overwhelming majority of people who played ff12 would've preferred basch an wanted vaan as a side character
@@eliotwildermann Yeah, I liked Basch 100 times more than Vaan.
He is boring, yes... but annoying?
"Who takes pride in being anti-social?"
The entire tumblr community for a start XD
@@HappyH4ppyHappy Twitter is the new Tumblr
How about a "most annyoning kids in JRPG"?
No wait, there would be too many potential entries, I'd take forever to find the top 10.
Why not top 100?
Is there such a thing as a non-annoying kid in JRPGs (Earthbound not withstanding)
@@l0stndamned Laphicet from Tales of Berseria.
@@l0stndamned Tita and KeA from kiseki
@@l0stndamned Vivi from FF9. If you dislike him, you must have a heart of stone.
I think the comment about a “normal” gay character is true even beyond the realm of gaming. Not every gay character needs to be flamboyant, feminine, and annoying. David himself looks like a god damn MMA fighter. I wish people would start learning to separate homosexuality from being a sissy. That was a tired stereotype decades ago.
Japan is.....not the most open minded country.
Don't blame Japan...
Blame American television which they use as a reference. Gays are predominantly flamboyant
In television, that is.
I wouldn’t blame Japan that much, after all Kanji & Yosuke from Persona 4 exists
@@LuckiSir I think those 2 are canonically straight, especially due to the spin off games.
Oh wow, it's nice to know there are more gay guys other than me that play JRPGS
I'm sure there's dozens of us :D
Heh, you're just a dood my friend. Your sexuality doesn't make you any different in any other aspect of life.
@@searchingstuff Though I understand your perspective, it's a nice feeling to know there are more people with a shared aspect of one's self in a community
@@CesarGonzalez-ur9ic I feel you. It's really nice to know :D
@The Deadpool Who Chuckles. Me too basically haha. I've been binging his videos recently, and now seeing this just makes me appreciate his content a little more. Also, I really love your "The Batman Who Laughs" reference in your username
Sylvando is beautiful and you take that back sir!!!!
Sylvando is amazing, but his gay-ness is definitely over-the-top
Sylvando is literally my favorite character in DQ11. His over the top nature makes him all the better imo
Okay, also just watched a video where David says Sylvando is his favorite DQ character by far. Which is not too surprising, how could you not love Sylvando?
The video was "Final Fantasy Versus Dragon Quest".
I want to see Sylvando form a traveling act with the emphatically bisexual musician Olivier from Trails in the Sky.
Sylvando and Veronica are the best characters in DQ11
How about a most annoying cutsey animals/animal-like characters list as well? That's one category of characters that always gets on my nerves
That's a good list idea.
How could he possibly narrow it down to ten? We're going to get a series like "worst characters" except it'll be eighty episodes long.
Tales of the Abyss handled the annoying animal companion pretty well, by having jerk Luke harass it until you felt sorry.
Some I love, some I just hate.
In Squall's defense,
A) most of his complaints were in his own head,
B) his party members all tended to be varying degrees of unprofessional screw ups,
C) he was constantly frustrated by the fact that his -military- *mercenary* academy kept putting him in charge of things (because of temporal shenanigans that we only find out about at the very end of the game) despite the fact that he had just graduated and was obligated to bring screw ups like everyone in his party that wasn't a dog (especially Zell) along onto his missions, and
D) equipping Guardian Forces for extended periods during training scrambled his memories so that he was feeling the separation anxiety from his sister being taken from him but had no idea that was what was behind the sensations he was experiencing, so he wasn't able to actually learn how to cope with it and therefore defaulted to trying his damnest not to form bonds with anyone else until Rinoa practically stapled herself to him.
Basically, all of Squall's problems basically stem from the fact that Cid was terrible at running an orphanage, a school, and a PMC, which in turn was because Cid was doing most of that in an attempt to (mercy) kill his wife and fulfill a prophecy at the same time.
xD a very thorough and well thought-out defense! I re-played FF8 a few years ago after not having touched it since high school and saw Squall in a new light largely because of how stupid everyone else in his party is. I think FF8 is the funniest FF game if you don't try to take it seriously and just enjoy the stupidity of the story and the characters.
EXXXXXACTLY!!!!
Thinking about it, I might have been a bit unfair to Selphie. She was a bit ditzy and hyperactive, as well as apparently being a bad pilot, but she also was pretty competent at her school activities, and figured out that keeping a journal can help mitigate the effects that Junctioning can have on one's memory.
I don't recall her actually doing anything especially stupid off the top of my head, unless she ended up hooking up with Irvine off screen.
@@lnsflare1 lol man she DEFINITELY became Irvines Baby Momma at some point!
I think this game was released back when the "I Hate Everybody" guy, was what everybody thought was extremely cool. I'm not 100% but I believe Squall was modelled off of a K-Pop artist who was the whole "Bad-boy" archetype. Don't quote me on that I'm just kind of remembering something along those lines.
Zell has a personality?? What did I miss? I've beaten this game twice in my life and all I remember is him saying "OHHHH YEAAHH" and something else about hot dogs.
Machias was definitely annoying, but I forgave him because "Timelord Machias" is absurdly OP. His status ailment stacks were ridiculous, too.
Squall’s character evolves throughout the story. He starts out being an asocial tough guy jerk because when he was little he was orphaned and then “sis” left so he gets used to not getting attached to people, but by the end he learns to let people in. He also clearly cares about his team as he rushes in to save them without any regard for his own safety on more than one occasion
Machias? He wasn't that bad. I really can't hate on any of the characters in the Trails series though. Now Hope from FF13, there's an irritating character. Whine, whine whine. plus the most useless Eidolon in the game.
Yeah, I have to agree on you with Hope. Especially once you meet his father, I felt no sympathy for him after that. His father seemed like a good guy, at least to me he did.
A lot of the “drama” of FFXIII was just ridiculously contrived, especially Snow being blamed for the death of Hope’s mom. He just glossed over the big, bad, scary machines firing at civilians on the government’s orders. Moreover, his mom made her choice. She knew what she signed up for. *_Her agency should matter._* I get him not being entirely aware of everything that’s going on, but I’m sorry, I just don’t believe that anyone would do what Hope did. An equivalent thing would be if Eren just ignored the Titans and instead directed all of his rage at Hannes because he didn’t try and lift a huge fucking beam off of his mother. That Eren would get super fucking annoying, super fucking quick. Just like Hope did.
@@MajorTeag Snow was a decent guy too. Annoying but his heart was in the right place. And you have to deal with Hope spending half the game plotting to kill him. What a little brat.
@@radicaldreamer927 Glad to see someone is on the same page as me. Hope's misplaced rage and angst is so irritating. I love Final Fantasy games and I'm used to angsty heroes. Hell I'm a Goth, i now angst inside and out, but Hope is a long ways away from Cloud/Squall. He just kind of sucks. If I remember right, I barely used him anyway.
@@rayceeya8659 Yeah, it felt like he was always throwing a sorta temper tantrum, just instead of screaming and stomping his feet; he just pouted and sulked and wanted to kill the person he thought killed his mother.
True story: Squall's original name was Sulky Sulkinson, but, the developers didn't want to make it too obvious.
I guess they learned their lesson about on the nose naming after giving the guy with a foggy memory and an antagonistic personality Cloud Strife.
I think the worst thing about twins in fantasy settings is that you ALWAYS know what the dynamic is going to be, regardless of how good their characters are individually. The boy is the brash, hot head and the girl is the calm and composed one who has to reign him in and keep him from doing stupid things.
Honestly I think ddffoo pointed this out with all the twins they did in games
Sold my man Squalls character development short as hell... still a good video though.
Seriously.
Character Development doesn't make the annoying parts more bearable.
Uh yeah it kind of does, it’s called perspective. You find out the reason that Squall acts that way which retroactively makes him less annoying because you NOW you get it. Edit: grammatical error.
@@leezus7875 It makes their issues understandable, not necessarily bearable. While it has the potential to make them less annoying, it's not a guarantee. A half of the people on this list have a reason for their behavior. Do those reasons excuse them?
Arc Caravan Not sure, don’t know them well enough, and depends on their individual reasons. What I do know is that Squall’s development and backstory make his earlier behavior more sympathetic, if you are paying enough attention.
Sylvando needs to be in a game-developers manual of how to write and create good stand-out characters well.
He really was one of a kind. Knew when to be high energy and cheerful...and when to put on his serious face and keep to being a serious boy. He wasn't half bad at a support role either.
Fabuloooous
When you said, "Why can't the gay characters just be normal?" during the Makoto bit, I finally feel like someone shares my pain for a decent gay character in a videogame. Not over the top, not so unnoticeable it seems non-existant, but just how a gay dude might hint to one another. Being bi myself this is also a question I have asked for so long. While it is a little funny, could be done waaaaaaaaay better.
I'll probably disagree with the whole list since I don't get annoyed with that many characters in general.
You and me both.😁
Me too 😅 looking at the comments, I'm actually surprised a lot of them doesn't like Edward 😅
“Has there ever been a more punchable face than his?” 😂😂😂😂 golden!
seeing as Ashe was supposed to be the protagonist and Vaan & Penelo were added in late in development because the higher ups wanted younger characters "in order to boost sales potential", the points made about Vaan aren't remotely surprising....
It's funny really... Since my only knowledge of Vaan comes from FFTA2, I rather like the guy.
@@skycastrum5803 FFTa2 Vaan is older and cooler, after the events of FFXII and FXII revenant wings
@Ikki Vaan was significantly better in both FFXII Revenant Wings and FFTa2. It's a shame he became more likeable in games most people probably haven't played.
Not true Vaan was there pretty early in development if you look at the announcement trailer of FF12 back in 2003 he is literally in the game. Vaan was always in the games script
Squall only started out antisocial. Learning to lead his team was part of his character development. He ended up being quite the dynamic character without flipping a heel-face 180. I could make plausible argument that Squall was in fact a well-written character in a terribly-written story.
Same with Luke. It took a tragic plot twist, but he actually picks up some self awareness, and is decent as a character by the end of the game.
Wasn't Vaan just put in because they thought an older protagonist would alienate their core audience? I thought he was okay as just a POV character.
Yeah, iirc it was actually Basch who was supposed to be the main character... A shame they didn't stick with that decision.
Expecting to see Lymle from Star Ocean on the women's list "kayyyyy?"
I loved her
She's adorable, kayyyy
Machina from FF Type-0. He’s constantly whining throughout the game and then the ending expects us to like/feel for him. A cardboard cutout would of been a more impactful character!
I was also expecting Machina been here. He kinda broke the whole dynamic of the group and the game in a general. I
I forgave machina but I know what happens in the other time lines so I understand if you have hard feeling for him
Half of the cast of Chrono-Cross should be on this list, it's actually easier to list exceptions.
Oh God, Nash's introduction made me wish for Ramus to come back, that's how annoying he was.
'Kay
Thank you! Finally someone admits Squall is a terrible protagonist.
Boring protagonist also and I can't stand introverts. Can't even relate to them.
But where are Hope and Snow from ff13
Snow getting punched by Lighting is the best part of XIII lol
That's a great point, Hope is trash
I found Hope cool, Snow is insufferable. I hate him so much...
I came looking for this. Hope was a whiny SOB.
@@yordlop hope has the personality of a wet blanket
10:55 How dare you!? Luke constantly harassing and abusing Mieu is one of his greatest redeeming character traits! Granted I have an unreasonable, seething hatred for mascot characters.
Van was horrible. Probably the worst. He was originally supposed to be Basch. He single
Handedly brought an amazing game down by his lack of character and ability to lead all because executives wanted to appeal to younger players
Machias was kind of a pain in the ass and sexist in the beginning of the series, but it's cool to see him grow of the course of the games.
but it took him long enough to grow in this game and even then he isn't really that interesting compared to the other characters in this game. I really liked Jusis to begin with, because he didn't just let machias bash him and always got back on him with bashing him back. He at least took it cool enough.
Honestly, the whole cast of FFVIII is pretty annoying. Irvine is probably the least annoying, but even then he's a sniper who can't kill and he follows Selphie around like a puppy.
You will never convince me that Victor is gay. The "is he...?" kind of thing is a trope used for comedic effect in Japan. He's just fiercely loyal to his duty and enjoys the company of people he sees as strong and honorable. If anything, he may lean closer to asexual as he's really only interested in training and his work. Then there's the failed relationship with an old lover of his. One might argue that it failed because she knew he was gay or something but I just don't think that's the case. I think it would be like saying Goku is gay.
If you want lgbtq done decently, I think the borderlands series does well.
Lost odyssey is such a good game i overlook the kids
Lost Odyssey was "Final Fantasy XIII" and I was hoping that they made Final Fantasy XV like Lost Odyssey, but as we know FFXV is such a mess lol.
@@Terranigma23 Actually Lost Odyssey was going to be Final Fantasy XI right after FFX, before Square went to the online route.
As for FFXV, it's a pretty decent game. Not the best, but not the worst either.
@@azoth7756 a main line Final Fantasy game without a turn based combat (except FFXII) is not a Final Fantasy.
@@Terranigma23 No offense, but your comment is subjective. I like turn based JRPG's much less FF games. But just because a FF is an action based and not turn based doesn't mean it's not a Final Fantasy game.
Also you stated "except FFXII" what did you mean by that?
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[0:50] - 10) Nash - Lunar Silver Star Story Complete
[2:09] - 9)
Jupis - Rogue Galaxy
[3:18] - 8) Makoto - Enchanted Arms
[4:31] - 7)
Squall - Final Fantasy VIII
[5:20] - 6) Vaan - Final Fantasy XII
[6:23] - 5)
Chiepoo - Suikoden IV
[7:49] - 4) Machias - Trails of Cold Steel 1
[9:34] - 3) Luke - Tales of the Abyss
[11:18] - 2)
Cooke and Mack - Lost Odyssey
[12:58] - 1) Emil - Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
I know this video is not about female party members, but, Nanami from Suikoden 2 is annoying as hell. She drove me nuts. LOL
I totally dont agree with Luke. In the beginning he was like, yea, spoiled little shit. But he gets such an amazing character transformation.
He gets amazing.
I like the Luke in the anime series much better than the video game.
@@mrsgamer9218 Luke gets among the best character development in the whole series. I respect him as a character because he eventually understands his actions have consequences, and he makes up for it. I honestly would prefer a character that is flawed and gets better over a character that is just good from the getgo.
Luke really does get a bad rap, and honestly I think that goes a little bit for Emil too. I can understand "why" people don't like their characters, but at the same time I appreciate that they're different, and it's not like people like that don't exist. While I wouldn't choose to play as someone like that for every JRPG, variety is the spice of life, and the two of them admittedly do grow and change by the end of the game.
Please increase the volume. I have my speaker up to max, and I can still barely hear it.
I mostly agree with your list. I will say though that I'd rather have a person not mention their sexuality on an adventure unless they're going to do something with it.
I actually liked Luke. His being such an unlikeable tool makes his later transition to maturity more engaging and everyone else's rallying around him (and spoiler: Tear falling in love with him) all the more believable.
Luke reminded me of a super exaggerated version of Justin from Grandia 1 in the beginning, and both had a coming of age arc.
God I miss Tales of the Abyss now.
Honestly, I find Rean hundred times more annoying than Machias. I absolutely cannot stand protagonists with harems and find all of these harem scenes with him incredibly annoying. Though I guess I don't so much dislike him as a character as the concept of him.
I also quit Tales of the Abyss for at least several months because of annoying Luke was. When I got back to it, I realized that you are supposed to find him annoying at first and that is actually kind of brilliant.
And thanks for reminding me of the existence of Chiepoo. 😩 I don't find him so much annoying as kind of creepy and unsettling, especially in the sequel. Actually, I find all of Suikoden Tactics kind of creepy.
Then the women are the annoying ones not Rean lol 😂 Rean didn't do anything, he's just a natural chick magnet 😂
@@gaspenpayne6755 Fair enough I guess. 😄 And Elise, Alfin, and especially Musse would all be on my women's list for sure...I cringed every time either of these three opened their mouths.
Ouch I agree with everyone but with Machias and Luke :(
Personally I thought Luke was a super engaging character (Not likeable) but he had such an awesome presence. It was an interesting dynamic to have a jrpg protagonist who was a huge asshole for once.
Anyways loved your videos, and I especially agree with the lack of positive LGBT+ party members in jrpgs.
The point of the list was "annoying" characters, and I'd agree Luke was interesting even though he'd fit the criteria, if he didn't "grow up" afterwards.
Hope from Final Fantasy 13 is my pick. I hated him so much!!!
Lunar Silver Star Story was one of my faves as a kid but damn, didn't I want to punch Nash's face every time I saw him. If I'm not mistaken, we had to save him from the swamp monster but he had the gall to act arrogant afterwards lol
He's just as bad in the Sega CD version.
I feel an essential part of growing up is realizing the character crushes you had were ill advised, Lol
10: Should be noted he wasn't a traitor in the Sega CD version, he was a double agent. PS1 version the made him a straight up traitor.
9: Hey Numbah 1. I like Jupis, shitlord worked for his goals.
"Jar Jar Binks knockoff."
Darth Jar Jar: Do not compare me to this one, I am the Dark Lord of the Sith, he who was behind ALL!
8: Makoto is hard to defend. Also another example of Japan not being the most understanding of countries.
7: Not defending Squall, boring as hell. People compare Cloud to him, but every single game Cloud appears in outside of 7 don't actually do a good job of showing Cloud's character.
6: A reminder that Vaan stole the Main Character role from Balthier, Vaan's present is borderline pointless.
5: You dissing my homie Chiepoo? Took him to end game. What? I prefer Non-Humans to Humans, they are less boring. :|
7:05
"Does Chiepoo have to smack a bitch?"
4: SKIP!
3: To quote the God Emperor of Man from 'What if the Emperor had a Text to Speech device.' when it comes to Luke's handling in that game; "About Fucking Time, I have so many things to Complain about.".
.....But there's no spoilers for the game in this video, So I'll refrain.
2: Hi Phil and Lil from Rugrats (For real, Cooke's VA is them. Maybe Mack's as well, but eh don't feel like looking it up right now.).
Yeah, Kids in JRPG, I don't get Japan's insistence on doing this constantly.
1: No defending Emil.
None
One abandoned LP had a fucking counter for how many times he says "I'm Sorry".
"Vaan" proceeds to show clips of Basch, smh...
Jokes aside, Vaan feels like a last minute addition to the game and I think he was.
Same. Ashe should have been the main character. Ff12 is a bit like 10. Male "protagonist" while the story revolves around Ashe and Yuna. Unlike Vaan Tidus actually served a purpose. His "amnesia" served a perfect excuse for exposition. His connection to sin actually makes his inclusion in the story make sense.
I definitely agree that Squall is actually very hard to be likable, his whole personality have no strong background at all.
I hated Luke with all my heart in the begining, but his "redemption" arc is just amazing, and easily makes the game one of the best J-RPGs ever. With that said, Vaan from FFXII is AWFUL, really. He's overshadowed even by Gilgamesh short appearance, which is a shame, cause the game itself is really good, but daaaaaaamn, the protagonist...
Vaan is more boring than annoying, how he can be annoying when he has no personnality ...
Ahhh, come on... Vaan's not that bad. He's pretty bland, but he's a good-hearted kid, and he gets some decent lines here and there. His scene with Ashe in Jahara is one of my favorites. At the very least, his revenge subplot is quickly and maturely resolved instead of extended out into the most melodramatic B-plot of all time, COUGH, HOPE, COUGH.
I agree Vaan is bland and almost an after-thought if he wasn't meant to be the MC... Hope on the other hand has no redeeming qualities.
@@matthewhostetter8974 Yeah, Vaan really is a background character in the group, but he also does a good job of contextualizing everything from the eyes of an outsider/commoner. I think he serves his role in the story well and really enjoy seeing him become more confident as a fully fledged sky-pirate in the sequel/spin-off. Hope... God, I hated everything that came out of that boy's mouth. Same with Snow... And Vanille... I really did not enjoy FFXIII.
@@jord_yy Haha I honestly think you are completely right! If Vaan didn't have such a nasally voice I think people would like him a lot better, but I'll be honest, it's really grown on me. Gives him character.
I cant belive someone defending Vaan. He should died and reeks should be a pretty standard protagonist.
@@ワラッセまけんし There are dozen of us! Literally. Dozens.
Omg, bless your heart for sticking Chiepoo on this list. Suikoden IV is such an outlier in the series for me, honestly, but Chiepoo being a mandatory early-game party member is probably the most intolerable thing about it for me. (And then continuing to be a main character after that, too, for some reason...) He is so *incredibly* annoying!! In a game with a slow and muddled plot, frustrating overworld travel, lackluster battle system and *Snowe*, it is honestly a testament to how much Chiepoo bugged me that I still consider him one of the worst things in the game. This was an inspired pic, my dude.
Yeah, Snowe is also a contender for the list.
I actually like 4. It primarily suffers from (as you said) poor overworld travel (slow + high encounter rate) and lackluster character scripting.
The presence of Chiepoo is very strange though. I was convinced he was in league with the ship's nameless cook since I had to buy food from him instead. Also, stranded on an island hunting mutant crabs while he still has soup to sell you? I called it the Mackerel Miso Stew Conspiracy.
I get they needed a way for you to get items early on, but couldn't they make food a drop or something?
Emil is the worst, so happy to see him make the list.
Betting Marta is going to be on the female list.
Mysticgamer If so, that’s fine. I did like her more than Emil though, they weren’t great characters, which sucks, the ToS cast was amazing.
The ToS1 case was amazing
The ToS2 cast sucked
Yeah, there are males that are annoying...
*Stay away from my love Sylvando, he's the best character hands down in the Dragon Quest Series*
I think Sylvando was there to make a point of gay representation being over the top or nearly non-existent compared to just being normal.
@@ArcCaravan Oh, makes sense
Disappointed none of the lesser Chrono Cross boys made the list
I glad you did not put Morgana on the list. I know the guy has some writing flaws. He shoukd be nicer to Ryuji and his tantrum is pretty dumb I still love his character. He is my favorite Video game Character right now. But I can see other people finding him annoying. Although that whining about him advising Joker to go to bad I dont understand. Those complains make no sense to me.
Me here, loving Luke and Emil... :'v
I'd argue that Vaan is'nt the protagonist of FF12, Balthier and Ashe are the protagonists. Vaan is just the medium from which the story is told, kind of like a narrator of sorts.
I find it funny that both Squall and Vaan are on this list over the likes of Edward, Cait Sith, and Hope... all who are utterly useless and pointless... At least Squall and Vaan have some redeeming qualities being the MC's of their respective games, even other people outshine them. Name one good thing the other three ever did, besides annoy you.
Cait Sith's not really a bad character to use in your playthrough and he does add some depth to the story
I'm not sure if Cait Sith's gender was ever even made clear
@@acarbonbasedlifeform70yeah, I get all of that.. are we positive it was a man though? I can't remember all of the dialogue, but is he/she ever referred to as "he"?
@@acarbonbasedlifeform70 seriously? I've beaten that game at least 15 times.. how did I never realize that? For whatever reason I just thought it was some nameless, faceless Shinra drone.
I like Machias but one thing that bothered me is how he was friends with Rean but then all of a sudden started hating him after finding out he was a noble, fortunately they reconciled though. I do find his rivalry with Jusis entertaining to watch
he iratonally hated nobility cause they sorta ruined his family. remember the game was like highschool so him being an illogical moron towards them isnt totally crazy espically after his backstory.
not to mention after CS2 and CS3 i dont blame him for getting to that point in the first place even if it is a bit misguided lmao
Well, Machias also felt like Rean lied to him since he said that he technically wasn't a noble (which was true because Rean's family situation is complicated.)
Rean technically didnt lie because he said "I dont have a single drop of noble blood in me" which is true because he was adopted into nobility.
@@kyethememer9836 Like I said, Rean's situation is complicated. Chapter 2 of CS1 is partially about challenging Machia's black and white world view of nobles when he learns about Rean's adoption and Jusis's bastard status.
Squall grows to appreciate and bond with his friends though. That's the whole story arc lol
The worst part of ToS Dawn of the New World is actually the like someone's garbage ocs got thrown into an amazing world that had a great story and they destroyed it with this game.
Can I get honorable mentions for Hope from FFXIII and every character from FE Fates?
I'll admit I hated Vaan my first playthrough of FF12 but he's grown on me and I have no idea why
Yeah, I actually really respect Vaan in FFXII. He might not be integral to the story, or particularly interesting, but he isn't melodramatic, is genuinely nice, and acts as a good supporting character for the rest of the party. He's a good kid.
It could be because the Vaan that everybody complains about doesn’t exist. That might be why.
Vaan isn't annoying. He's just there, without no proper role or impact to the plot, and happened to be the main character of a Final Fantasy title. I don't hate him as much and get why he's disliked, but sometimes it seems like he gets a lot of hate for existing.
@@sharilshahed6106 I mean, he does have a role in the story, being the perspective character, but yeah, in terms of the overall main story he's mostly just there to convince Ashe not to go through with using the nethicite to destroy the Empire. He's not amazing, but he's very underappreciated I would say.
Luke is one of my fav tales of chars.
regarding gay characters in JRPG: THANKS exactly my thought. The real only JRPG char which i found ok and funny was the "wrestler" in Shadow hearts 2 (forgot the name).... otherwise.... nah
and in western RPGs they either are full on Bi Sexual (EVERY character which is also stupid like in Dragon Age) or over the top
I think his name was Joaquim or something like that and he was awesome. The Gran Papillon!
Finnaly someone to agree with about Luke. I hate this spoiled brat. Jade is the only reason I somehow liked Abyss.
Actually I felt like the game cast itself acknowledged that Luke was annoying with how they acted and responded
Except Luke evolves, A LOT. Seriously though I hated him and even more so at this portion. But considering what happened afterwards, that felt pretty intentional in part of the narrative and boy how he starts eating one humble pie after the other. He's actually really likeable afterwards. Its sad to see people don't appreciate his character development as much.
Jade is no doubt the best, but Abyss is no doubt the best in terms of storytelling.
@@sharilshahed6106 I loved Abyss but i pretty much agree with David that Luke swings the pendulum too far too quickly to be believable. Going from spoiled rotten kid for the first like 20 hours of the game to selfless hero in the span of one cutscene was pretty ridiculous.
A better version of him is Tidus of FFX who at least has some redeeming qualities at the start get some development during the game but still has some annoying aspects to him by the end.
People can change but only to a certain extent.
@Weston Meyer Not by a mile away
@@jonathanabgrall6075 I really couldn't stand Tidus either, because his daddy issues are so damn annoying and that laugh scene. Oh, my GOD! SHUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH!
Yeah, Nash is pretty bad. Although it's easy to ignore his Sleep spell on a first playthrough, because if you discover how useful it is (or Luna's sleep song) the game basically becomes broken. I could go my whole life without hearing him say "Check this out!" and doing a spin in the air ever again though.
This list is so perfect, I hated Squall so much that I couldn't even finish FF8.
Vaan wasn't originally gonna be the main character in FF12. They originally wrote Basch as the main character but then later in development suddenly decided they should have younger characters to "appeal to the kiddos" so they added Vaan and Penelo. They feel shoe-horned into the story because they literally were.
Looking forward to your most annoying jrpg women list :) That's gonna be a tough one to narrow down to just 10 lol
Vaan has more relevance as a POV character for the Rabanastran commoner than Fran does... who is basically a T&A filler who has less than 200 lines in the game.
Squall was perfect as he was.
Vaan was equally great.
Basch is just so blah. So thankfully they added personality or that's one bland cast.
@@Fa1nTy Vaan as a POV character is a fair justification. Especially since they borrowed so many themes from Star Wars which used the droid duo the same way.
With Chiepoo, the funny thing is that Chie, in french, is ''to shit''. So his name is Shit-Poo
How can you say Vaan doesn't have a clear role in the story? He obviously is the Trophy-barely-legal Twink of the game that you can fantasize becomes some sort of "slave Leia" for whoever you want to drop him to.
"Barely-legal trophy twink" 😂😂😂
God, Emil was such an emo even Squall would tell him to cheer up.
I’m so glad to see Machias on this list. He would make my list as well.
You should do some videos on the .Hack game series at some point (I'm mainly referring to the PS2 IMOQ series). I'm longplaying each one of them on my channel, I only have Outbreak and Quarantine left to get through. I'm also the first person to ever record, and upload, a longplay of .Hack//Fragment, which is all in Japanese with a little bit of English patching completed. That was really fun to play through, even though I couldn't understand most anything that was being said.
No honor mention to Morgana from Persona 5? What a shame
Is Morgana a boy or a girl?
"Has there ever been a character so bad that it made you put the game down and walk away from it for a year?"
Yes actually and it was Jade, not Luke.
You do realize that Luke is seven years old right? He's also a completely sheltered royal as well. This was all because Asch was kidnapped as a kid, cloned and replaced by Luke.
Does that make him less annoying, not really but it makes me think differently of him. If anyone in the cast was the most annoying though then it would have to be Jade. He was the oldest of the group, a military leader, a genius and knew exactly what Luke was and what that meant. Yet the way he treated who was essentially a child, was abuse. Jade is a child abuser and the rest of the cast except for Natalia were all almost just as bad.
Luke is a seven year old in a 17 year old's body who had to learn LITERALLY everything (talking, walking, eating, wiping his own ass) all in the body of a ten year old. All this while also going through puberty fucking his mind and body up. This coupled with his very sheltered royal upbringing, made for a person who didn't know or understand the same social cues "normal" people do.
Holding Luke to the same standards as the rest of the party or anyone in general is just wrong. None of it was his fault. He didn't know any better, not due to ignorance but due to circumstance. Almost everyone know this about him too except for Natalia and maybe Anise yet they all treated him like shit to the point they drove him to Vaan knowing what it would bring. Instead of them taking their knowledge of what Luke is and dealing with him accordingly, they all decided to ostracize him instead. Meanwhile you can see that Luke knew something was wrong with the way he interacted with people but didn't know what to change or how to change it as again, he was seven years old. He tried to do better and everyone kept putting him down.
While I agree with your defense of Luke somewhat, you have to keep in mind that all of that is stuff that gets revealed to you throughout the game. If David dropped the game when he was sick of Luke harassing Mieu, it was probably towards the beginning of the game where all you know about Luke is that he's a whiny little shithead.
I think the exception of Guy who genuinely want to help Luke
@@Soeupe You actually find out about the fact that Luke lost all his memories and was under house arrest pretty much his entire life with nothing to alleviate his boredom except training with Van at the start of the game. I don't recall *exactly* when you find out that he literally had to start from zero instead of the comparatively convenient versions of amnesia that is usually depicted in fiction very easily in (when they were berating Luke for not knowing basic information aunt some socio-economic thing and he says that he was busy trying to learn his parents' faces at the time that most people learned that kind of stuff).
@@haseoxv9508 It should probably be noted that Guy had entered the service of the Fon Fabre household specifically to assassinate Luke to attain vengeance against Luke's dad, though he changed his mind about that. Also, he was technically Van's liege lord and was fully aware that Van was manipulating Luke for something against his best interests, though admittedly he didn't know how far Van was really intending to take his own plots.
In all fairness, while they don't use the exact term, Jade is depicted as essentially being a sociopath and not only fully aware of it, but spending his entire life trying to fix, or at least mitigate, that about himself since he's fully aware how he's directly/indirectly responsible for almost everything bad that is happening, and that his issues have caused incalculable pain to the handful of people that he actually cares about.
I actually like the Abyss cast, but they tend to turn their moral blinders up to Eleven whenever Luke is on screen, mostly because the entire world of Aldurant send to be designed around breaking Luke's heart into itty-bitty pieces as often as possible.
Also, Natalia definitely knew about his "amnesia," as part of Luke's constant annoyance with her when we first meet her may have something to do with how she keeps trying to get him to regain his memories, which would essentially erase the Luke that currently exists, if amnesia had actually been what was going on there.
I think that Anise learned about how memory issues as well, but she definitely knew that he was a 7 year old replica when she and the rest of the party sans-Meiu/Tear abandoned him in a hellworld, but Anise is basically a bundle of psychological issues in the shape of a little girl due to her own messed up upbringing basically forcing her to become the adult in her family and then being manipulated by Mohs due to that fact.
David, my dude. I had Lunar in my queue of games to play, should try to avoid spoilers in the future...
He does announce each game before talking about it. If you don't like spoilers, do what I do and skip that portion of the video.
The game is 24 years old and he gave you ample time to skip when he announced the game. Kinda your own fault here...
Piss off, idiot. You had ample time to skip his entry on Lunar.
I will actually be one of the few people to defend Squall. Being abandoned by literally everyone you're attached to would kind of make sort of adopt a cold and distant personality, so his lone wolf personality makes sense even if it is a played out trope today. Yet everyone in the world of dumbasses that is Final Fantasy 8, seems to think Squall is the best person to comment on their problems and give them advice, which baffles me as its clear the dude just wants to be left alone and his advice is going to be "go talk to a wall", its basically the equal to asking Peter Parker for relationship advice, then being suprised when your girlfriend ends up dead or you get a divorce for making a deal with Satan.
Factor in the scale of the people he's forced to work with and are the closest thing he has to friends.
-A man who opens the game by slashing him across the face and wants to be the "knight" to the ultimate evil in the world,
-His thirsty teacher who is basically hitting on him constantly,
-A man with ADHD who in a world of giant robots and fire arms thinks "im'ma punch em" is good combat tactics,
-A sharpshooter (who uses a shotgun mind you) and hits on anything with a pair of legs and tits,
-A girl who im pretty sure inhales paint in her off time,
-And a resistance leader who's carefully thought out over months plans include kidnapping the president by literally hooking his train to your base and driving away while his gaurds hopefully dont notice, and to stop the all powerful evil sorceress by hoping she puts on this magic supression braclet you give her.
Seriously the fact Squall saves all of reality and didnt at any point try to swallow his gunblade and pull the trigger is a testament to his patience and leadership skills if anything.
Hey! Emil’s my buddy! How dare you...! His development through out the game was good in my opinion. But this is your video so i’ll calm down and i’m sorry
Emil was a all time sis. He did nothing but talk cowardly the whole game. I wanted ratatosk the whole game, Emil deflated his heroism by always being in decisive and frankly cowardly. Very horrible protagonist in my opinion.
darealliljable okay okay
@@hunterthejokethegamerandst5567 I get it that he was meant to cater to the sensitive kind of kind hearted male but he was just really bad. I wanted Marta to be done with him so badly and take Ratatosk or Loyd even. His backbone was non existant in much of the game and I dont see how that would stimulate any female to want to reproduce with him because of fear of the offspring being killed.
darealliljable oh come on dude...
@@hunterthejokethegamerandst5567 Whats your opinion on his character? Im sorry if I'm trashing your fav lol he just stunk in the tales series to me.
Chiepoo showed up in my dreams last night. He must die now since I never played Suikoden in my life.
Chiepoo is what nightmares are afraid.
Thanks for including Vaan on this list. He sums his role up in the story by admitting he's "just along for the ride" later onto the game.
I like Nash despite him having a punchable face, his scenes with Mia were pretty entertaining when he lost his overly arrogant facade.
As for the gay men in rpgs, they do tend to be extremely over the top. However, my brother is gay, and most of his friends are gay, and I'm friends with quite a few gay guys myself. The flamboyant side can come off really strong at times, I don't think being gay is as accepted in Japanese culture in particular, though they are apparently getting better in more recent times. I think that the more flamboyant types have left more of an impression to them than it should have, and it's dramatized in standard over the top anime style in too many games that feature them. If they are featured at all. Hopefully one day they can do it justice.
I've never considered Vaan as the protagonist of FF XII. He is just a witness observing the plot develop. It seems to be intended like this.
If you list Machias for his initial personality, Jusis isn't better at all. At least Machias is a useful support caster while the only thing useful about his noble classmate is his Noble Command skill.
To me, one really annoying character is Lezard from Valkyrie Profile. Even without knowing the story of the first game when I played Silmeria, it was way too obvious that he couldn't be trusted. I already couldn't stand him while he was with the party (and he was useless in battle as well) but when he turned out to be the main antagonist he became downright annoying. I actually like psychotic characters if they are well written, but this self-proclaimed god wasn't. I enjoyed his final scenes even more though.
Vaan is like Ishmael from Moby Dick, the viewpoint character, but secondary to the actual plot. In universe, Vaan is basically the muscle of the group, seeing as he's by far the best overall fighter in the game. He doesn't really play a big role in the plot, but without him around, the main group probably wouldn't have been able to make it through all the battles that they had to.
The list was about being annoying, not gameplay.
Ryuji Sakamoto from Persona 5 is personally the most annoying male in any JRPG I encountered. He's a very slow learner and his cluelessness aggravated me to no end on numerous occasions.
Let's also not forget that he almost outs the team on multiple occasions, He shouted that they're the phantom thieves on live TV for God's sake. But him getting punished in Shinjuku was pretty funny. Maybe that should've been the moment where he finally learns to keep his mouth shut.
Luke is essentially an infant, completely sheltered his entire life. It makes perfect sense why he is the way he is.
And even before he cuts his hair, he does notice things with people and care at times. He doesn't know how to take his entire world suddenly changing, even the party realizes at times that they're being way too hard on Luke cus he literally does not know better. Van was the only meaningful connection he had made, even moreso than his own parents because Van knew what he was and was able to manipulate him as a result.
Him going so hard the other way is, again, cus he's literally single digit years old and trying to do what he assumes is what good people do. The party continues to call him out and try to guide and help him realize that the complete self sacrifice "my life is worthless" thing isn't good either.
In my opinion, Luke is the most developed and well written protagonist of any JRPG game I've played tbh, and it's been my favorite genre of game since the PS1 days
This is all true and it doesn't stop me from wanting to beat the living tar out of him in the first act of the game.
@Weston Meyer that's the point, he doesn't know how to change, he goes hard in the other direction and the party continues to call him out on it cus he doesn't have the experience to know how to be a "good" person, he continues to grow slowly with the help of the party
tales of the abyss did that to me too, i also hated jade. i literally could not finish it, Luke sucked, jade sucked, the girl with the teddy bear sucked, guy was kind of good but had a stupid anime "quirk" that they then tried to make deep and intense. nah, i loved tear, but that was the last game that i resold to gamestop, even though i got next to nothing, because i just wanted it gone.
I can’t believe so many people like Jade. He is a horrible character, and he is only saved by the fact that Anise is almost as terrible.
Tear was the only saving grace that game had.
Yeah, Tear was the only character that was even remotely likable. Her hotness also helps.
"Squall's selfishness makes no sense in the context of the story."
Did you play Final Fantasy VIII? Because it doesn't sound like you did.
Squall's personality is dictated by childhood trauma. He isn't a dick, he is apathetic by experience. He is anti-social through a lived experience that causes him to view emotional connections as temporary and ultimately painful because they end, and they end abruptly. Squall is the only character of the cast who lost a sibling that he actually knew. None of the other cast have gone through the level of trauma that Squall had. In fact the game shows you that his life was basically orchestrated to be this way.
Did you watch him during his military outings? Squall is a picture perfect soldier. He doesn't take anything on alone (in fact he hates having responsibility thrusted upon solely himself) and understands what fighting as a unit is. He compartmentalizes his personal feelings and his military duty all the time in the game. When it comes time for him to be reliant on people, he is. Never is this more proven than when Cid hands over leadership of the military functions of Balamb Garden to Squall and he delegates the necessary responsibilities to those best suited to the tasks.
It's fine if you don't like his personality or him as a character, but your reasoning lacks understanding and sounds like it came from someone who played only the opening of the game.
EDIT: Also Vaan is annoying as fuck, but unfortunately he is also the actual best character in the game in terms of stats so unfortunately he is needed.
Squall has a lot of traumas and trust Issues like you said and is only in his monologues that we see his true Personality but to everyone else Squall looks like the perfect soldier or an Asshole with his catchphrase Whatever which he uses to deflect conversation and not connect with people, squall is just a Kid pretending to be an adult people most people seem to not able to understand that or even see it, Heck I get people saying stupid shit like Tidus wasn't needed in FF X or he was Disrespectful to everyone like wtf?
Do people really expect people to respect other cultures just because? In The context of FF X Tidus was 100% correct anyway.
I actually kinda like Vaan for what he is, the company-mandated teen boy POV character. He acts pretty realistically (neither overly angsty or competent, nor a complete Pollyanna). The little story he does have (getting over his desire for revenge, first against Basch and then the empire) serves as a decent foil to Ashe's increasing bloodlust and I enjoy the few moments they share over their figurative and literal ghosts. There were foundations for a good character in there but just like everyone else he seems to suffer from the chaotic development of the game. :/
Also I'm guessing the only reason Algus from FFT didn't make the list was because he was just a guest character cuz holy shit that was a really well done example of how to purposefully make a character annoying (and then a downright shithead)
Luke dose get alot better I couldnt stand him myself. But I loved him toward the end
I laughed so hard at the Chiepoo part, rofl that pose, outfit and voice acting, it's killing me xD I'd play the game just to see that lmao
Yeah, while I loved Lost Odyssey and it is one of my favorite games on the 360, I will admit that Cooke and Mack can be a bit annoying. I got especially annoyed with Mack when he wanders away the two times. Though I myself found Tolten to be more annoying. One I was surprised that wasn't on here though is Marumaro from Blue Dragon. He probably has the most annoying voice in the world and worse yet he has to scream out all the time.
I do thinl Tolten is annoying at least he had reasons: he never wanted and felt prepared to the role he was thrown in, so it is easy to be a little whiny in this case and he noticed how people near him exploited his lack of expertise in dealing with politics, so he is not a confident guy like any other character. I am ok with him as a character, just find him a little underwhelming to play. Cooke and Mac can be extremely helpful later in the game, so it bothers way more.
@@lordeilluminati Yeah, and plus they are important to the story, so they are featured way more. Plus kids are annoying a lot of times, so it would seem weird to have a kid like Cooke or Mack act like a full-grown adult.
Dear god, Vaan annoys the shit out of me. I really don't understand his role as the protagonist. I mean, ok his brother was offed during the invasion but still... the game absolutely forgot about him. Zell annoyed me too. Squall was a little better in my opinion but chicken wuss really got on my nerves and he gets benched every single chance I get!
Yeah most gay jrpg characters, and gay anime characters for that matter are always over the top
Qui-Gon Jinn Probably because that’s how gays act in general.
@@Anon9729X have you ever met a gay person?
As a masculine gay guy who usually hates flamboyant stereotypes... I actually fell in love with Sylvando from Dragon Quest XI. That boy had me laughing and smiling the whole way through the game.
Shaggy well as well as being over the top in jrpgs and anime they are also depicted as rapist or they usually sexually harass the other characters, slyvando on the other hand doesn’t do that he’s just a funny gay guy
But how else are you gonna KNOW they're gay unless they make them every annoying stereotype??
The most annoying characters on the list for me are nash and squall. Hell, you could make the list the entire cast of FF8 and I'd agree with it. I know that game has its fans (I'm glad you enjoy it), but I couldn't stand playing it. To be fair, I haven't played it since the original release.
The Cameraman in Earthbound was pretty random.
Glad for content like yours! I love JRPGs and also wish for more openly gay main characters. I’d love to see myself represented in that way. I loved Sorey in Tales of Zestiria, I related to him a lot, and his sexuality was ambiguous enough that you really could imagine him as gay and it’s not a stretch at all
Hinata from Fire Emblem Fates has to be my least favorite FE character ever lmao
Dragonite Gaymer Uh... Cyril in three houses
Screw Him
You do bring up very valid points. However, protagonists should have been their own video... and Jesus dude... you really gotta roast my favorite protagonist squall like that? Oof
I learned basic reading and math from jrpg's an who said games r bad for u 😁
Same. RPGs likely expand your vocabulary a bit more than most other genres as well.
I am not a native English speaker, but I learned through gaming and RPGs, and now, I am a professional translator. Games are bad for you all right...
I hear a lot of "he gets better" about Luke, but the truth is that he doesn't. He's still a selfish, whiny asshole. It's still all about him, and it's still attention-seeking behavior. He may have cut his hair, but he didn't change. Not really. Machias, on the other hand, does change. He grows more accepting as the game goes on, and we find out more and more about why he feels the way he does. It doesn't make his initial behavior acceptable, but it gives us some much-needed context that lets us empathize.
Anyways, Sylvando may be over-the-top, but it fits with his character and motivation, and he's honestly the best-written character that I've ever seen in Dragon Quest. He has personality, goals, insecurities, flaws, everything that makes a character feel really real. Sylvando wasn't the main character, but he was the star of that game (for me anyways).
Great list, as always.
Man i really like listening to your voice, i don't know why 😂
I just beat Tales of the Abyss today and I thought Luke was a pretty good character