I have a 2009 BMW G450x and it’s an absolute beast of a machine - helluva pain to get it into a good working condition but once I got it dialed, it handled anything and everything I threw at it. It’s impossible not to have a huge smile on your face whilst riding dirt or street, never selling this bike.
Had one. Most confused motorcycle I’ve ever raced. Spent a lot of time on suspension tuning and mapping ecu to suit aftermarket pipe. Very difficult motorcycle to work on AND to simply keep running. Goofy wide ratio transmission and a PITA to change sprocket sizes. But the bike did work surprisingly well when it was running and set up properly. Canadian Mx and enduro legend Guy Giroux put the bike on the podium at the Montreal endurocross before I got it for the remainder of that season, and I loaned it to Matt McCarthy who put it on the podium at a provincial XC race. So the potential is there. If only bmw took more time developing it and listened to test riders comments this could have evolved into a very nice xc racing motorcycle.
I've got a 2010 version with just over 35 hours on it. The forks were changed for this final year of production to gold externals and revised internals. For the final year of production the bike was sold as a package from the dealers with extras including race can, map switch, smaller rear light, 2 additional front sprockets (13 and 15 tooth), smaller rear mudguard and a spare set of wheels. It is a pretty competent bike for some green lanes, despite the tiny fuel tank. It is also pretty quick with the race map and can fitted. Cracking video and great to see your review, next you need to try the BMW HP2 Enduro!
That 2010 one sounds like a bargain if you could find one for reasonable money with all the bits. Sounds perfect for an old git like me looking for an 80% road use (crappy roads where I am, full of holes, lol) 20% light off road, maybe put trials tyres on the spare wheels. Thanks for the info on that final year one, I didn't know that.
Exactly, "We will get a 15 year old dual purpose road legal bike, that has been sitting in a barn for 10 years, give it a wash, leave the road legal gear on it , headlight tail light indicators road mufler , not touch the suspension set up, after sitting in a barn for 10 years, . And we will put this 15 year old dual sport road legal bike, set up for road riding, and compare it against a new dedicated ENDURO race bike that has been modified and set up to race, on a ENDURO course! ! . We will compare a used bike that cost $4000 that is in such bad condition, it wont start on test day, to a new bike that costs $14000", . Only 7 seconds over a 2 minute stint slower, I think that is impresive for the road legal 15 year old barn find. I would not be laughing at the $4000 dual sport, for being 7 seconds slower than a $14000 enduro bike , on a enduro course. I would be laughing at how a dedicated enduro race bike that cost a extra $10000 , is ONLY 7 seconds faster on an ENDURO course.
7 seconds in two minutes is a pretty big margin. Most special tests are around 10-12 minutes for an enduro, with most races 3-6 special tests. If we extrapolate that out to real world term - 35-42 per special test. Depending on the event, that's somewhere in the region of 1.5-2 minutes for low special test event or 3-4 minutes on a event with more tests. That's often gonna be the gap between winning and coming last in your class. Source: experience from racing Welsh & British Enduro champs and working at world Enduro champs. @@positivemasculinity42
It was 6 seconds slower, on a non challenging loop. Imagined if it was on some challenging terrain. It is fine for novice level riders doing casual Green Lanes.
The BMW was 6% slower so not 3%. This BMW was a full enduro bike and BMW hired a.o. the enduro World Champion on KTM David Knight and with the BMW he could even get on the podium and he gave back his contract and salary to BMW. After 2 years Knight returned to the enduro world championship on KTM and was directly world champion again.
Rode one of the magazine test units back when this came out (I worked at Dirt Rider mag at the time). High altitude trails. Rode back to back with a well setup KTM 525. We all agreed the "aged" 525 was eons better and at the end of the trip, nobody wanted to ride the beemer after the novelty wore off. The two things that stood out were massive gaps in-between gears, for low speed trails they were really bad. Also the front end just did not want to go where you wanted it. I was honestly fearing going off the trail and into a tree. Extremely vague and felt like not near enough weight on the front end. That said, I don't believe we took the time to set the sag and could have been very out of balance. Fun to watch and reminisce. Cheers from socal.
Thanks! @@999lazer Reading some old tests now. Does appear they fixed many of the problems with the 2010 model. I was definitely on the 2009 and it was an enigma
Had one back in 2011 (Australia) Odd to say the least. Brembos, a Taiwanese Kymco engine, odd cable clutch, that seat and a factory muffler as big as 2 loaves of bread !! It did win the 2009 Romaniacs with Andreas Lettenbichler onboard. Impossible to get parts for, even back then.
I own a 09 with over 20,000km on it. Does it all well - by means if you're a good rider and tall. With a few tweaks for gearing and usually upgrades this bike can handle what you give it. Faster the better.. Great bike for the in-between single track to road/double track. Who's sitting down!!! put some sheep skin down for extra kush for Sunday riding. Haven't had any issues other than the stater issue that was under warranty. Bought it with 5,000km. My second bike is a 1995 KDX200 to fill the gap in performance and fun. Good to see some "updated" content on it!
Love these history lessons. Thanks for the vid! Maybe just a suggestion, put up the specs of the bikes in txt form or something for a few seconds, it would add some context and pretty easy to do. Also comparing it to the bike's competition at the time would be interesting but I realize that might not be feasible. Great vids!
Nice video Max, never knew BMW made a competition enduro, great camera and drone work, if triumph and ducati do well in MX , BMW could make another return, also that warranty was mental .
The design of the clutch makes loads of sense, actually! Engine power, the horse powers, is defined as mechanical energy delivered per second. Mechanical energy is a force applied over a distance. Converted to torques and rotation-terms, spinning at high rpm at low torque you transfer the same energy per time as at lower rpm and higher torque. A lighter clutch thus will do the same work at high rpm as a heavy and slowly spinning one. Weight saved, probably less wear and tear as well. Next come probable effects from the oil between the clutch discs. In fluid dynamics, many effects go with velocity squared, and I would expect that the boundary layer between oil and plates produces some force way before the plates make direct contact. This would again reduce the wear of the plates. Next centrifugal forces will generate more flow of oil through the clutch, helping its cooling. Especially in off roading, where you rely on clutch slip a lot more than on road, these features should help lengthening clutch life significantly. Also the force the geared edges the clutch plates make on the outer cage´s bits will be lower, reducing the wear there. So a faster spinning clutch has many advantages that make it look desirable to a motorcycle. One may expect longer life of the parts and reduced weight. Next having the engine rotating in the opposite direction of the gears and wheels reduces the drive's gyroscopic momentum which some sports bikes have as well now. It apparently adds a significant amount of flic-a-bility. This may have been seen as extra bonus of this setup. I have to say that the G450 does look very interesting after all! They did try to minimise the impact of some systemic issues with it. As light as a Honda CRF 250 L but shelling out nearly twice the horsepower with some pretty clever details added. This may have been a pretty decent daily driver for adventure riders. Trying to sell the G450 through sports may have been the wrong approach. The mud bath Itchy Boots took in Liberia comes to my mind, where her CRF300R burnt out a clutch for good. In such conditions, the G450's clutch layout and extra power might make a difference. A less loaded and better cooled clutch may have survived that torment.
why did you not compare it to that era fourstroke, surely that would have been a much fairer and valid time comparism. Incidentally that engine is in my CCM GP450 adventure and has been all round Europe on and off road, greenlaning on real snotty trails in the UK and never missed a beat.
yes we were told the CCM had a de-tuned version of the same engine. We have done some video work for CCM in the past at the same time they were just finishing selling the GP450. Its a cool bike and would be a good one to feature on the channel at some point.
In no way shape or form was that a fair competition" that 300 2 stroke could spank the 450s raced at Loretta's! Let's go BMW....do it again! Great video man,Like always !
When BMW owned Husqvarna their 2011 and 12 bikes had essentially the same motor but with a ridiculously close ratio six speed box. They improved the CTS rear suspension by having a pair of individual pivots, so accessing the front sprocket was much easier. Unfortunately there were quite a few reliability issues with the electric start.
Great Video! I think it would be cool to compare the bike to an enduro bike from that time period. Thanks for explaining all the weird design features of the bike though!
My buddy bought one of these for a multi-purpose play bike/commuter, and if you look at it from the perspective of an option opposing a DS400 or similarly fashioned machine it is not as disappointing of an experience really. Now he did do some tuning, added an aftermarket exhaust, and such. Which certainly livened it from stock configuration nicely. He had his friend who is a performance suspension guru set the front and rear up for his weight and it made a significant difference in the handling off the tarmac. Would it ever be a true competition machine, IMO, no. First off it has too long of a wheel base IMO which makes navigating tight technical sections more daunting and increase your chance of getting high centered as it requires more effort to get the frontend up and more difficult to hop around on the rear wheel. On the flip side the rear end does not constantly seek to pass the frontend and get you sideways near as much. For faster logging roads and mining trails where we rode a majority of the time was a great asset . It was a seriously fun bike for play and adventure but not anywhere near MX and Enduro competition grade IMO.
Well first cheers for testing this bike, I would like to see a comparison with the Husqvarna variant. Yes I would like to see BMW try again, maybe with the same motor but conventional chassis and suspension.
They should buy the Husaberg drawings and use those as a starting point. That was "strange" engineering that worked. An update of their engine in a new frame with modern components would be interesting.
@@jonasf1275 99 wouldn't know a square test as i doubt he knows the diffrence between a 2stoke and a 4stroke.. let alone the category of similar year models and cubic capacity.. all hail shit tube i guess..😂😂
What an outstanding video - I have seen this model BMW in person but never had the chance to ride one !!! Amazing hearing from the great David Knight !!! ( any idea what he is doing these days ? ) At the time I owned a 2009 Husqvarna TE 450 off road model which was a very nice bike - I added arrow exhaust , bark busters and hit the woods !!! I have seen the GX450 for sale every once in a while and thought about it due to all its unique features ( kinda weird features lol ) Blaz thanks again for the hard work you put into these videos 👍
be interesting to see you do this test against an old husky or ktm etc from same era - i think testing against the new school is a tad unfair lol - imo it is a damn shame BMW gave up so soon, the dual sport market could / would be a great place for them now with an updated version of this
So pleased you covered this bike. I almost bought one years ago and the front sprocket was what first put me off. I soon realised there could be other quirks too, as well as limited parts availability, and is why I didn't buy one. Very interesting to see the comparison, despite the obvious age difference.
A friend of mine was given one of those to race Enduro's and Hare Scrambles on by a local BMW Dealer shortly after they came out . He was/ is an absolute jet in the woods and a capable winner . As much as they tired and tried to get that bike up to the level of handling & performance he needed it just wasn't working good enough . He was on the gas hard at my place on the mid week ride nights we did and he came off it in spectacular fashion on one afternoon and luckily was un hurt , but the Beemer V Oak Trees contest left the Beemer bent kind of like a banana . That was the end of Beemer , we never saw it again .
Cool video and love the choice of bikes. That track looked like a lot of fun, something us regular dirt riders would ride and not Hard Enduro difficult. Well done.
Great comparison and some inovative features on this unusual bike. My guess is that the BMW is a good starting point for further development (as David Knight said), but BM thought it wasn't worth the bother.
They should give it another go. Like you said though don't try to reinvent the wheel just make small tweaks to what already works. Glad you got the bmw, I had forgotten about this bike all together.
A cluth directly at the crank can be much smaller, because there is no reduction (around 1:3) like on standard primary drives. So the torque it has to handle, is smaller by the factor of a standard primary drive gear ratio. I think that is the reason. A clutch on the crank was also used in old MZ 2-stroke bikes from east germany.
The high-speed crankshaft clutch is much more sensitive and absolutely smooth-running (if you have lubricated the cable properly) Only the noise is completely different. Sachs 502 ( Hercules M5 ) also runs with chluth on Crangshaft
I really enjoyed this one. I like seeing the "failures" be reviewed and compared. It gives us a fresh perspective again of the older and "flawed" products that got slammed down and into oblivion by the purist to be never seen or heard of again. A shame, really, as I would have liked BMW to keep developing this oddball. They were different and that on itself it's a win for me. Can't blame them for trying. Stay weird and fresh, #BMWMOTORRAD ! 🤘😎👍
You Forgot Letti won Romaniacs on one. You should compare a 2008 KTM 450 exc to it...I think it would be a much fairer comparison. Apart from that an excellent video 👍
Love your videos u keep bringing us crossers that most didnt even know existed, BMW are awesome engineers but they got this so wrong wat a shame keep em coming max 😊
There is a race map 3 for the te449/te511s fixed the flame out problems. Very hard to find parts for them now days. Bit unfair it’s a complete different bike to the husky 300 would of been compared to the wr450 or something like that
Bmw like Cannondale before them tried to reinvent the category. They made a big splash and signed a couple of top riders one that walked away from the contract well before the end of the season. He never came to terms with the handling. The clutch wore plates quickly as well. No one at the factory seemed to understand the marketplace.
It was never going to work the thing ran backwards so the front end is powering into the ground when you open the the throttle you’re never going to lift the front end, KTM did adopt the rear tank for the 690 enduro though
Having the front sprocket concentric with the swingarm pivot’s a great idea, pity they did it in a away making changing sprockets a hassle. Mind you it means less wear in the whole chaindrive assembly.
More of a KLR450/CRF450L competitor than an actual enduro bike. The BMW was a great dual sport and made a good rally bike. CCM used this motor in the GP450 and the was a mega long distance trail bike.
I rode the ISDE qualifiers 06 - 10. 300EXC, YZ250F, G450X, TE310, 450EXC. Having fuel injection in 08 was miles better for coping with location changes than the 38/39mm carbs. The suspension wasn't any harder to figure out than the KTM's PDS. The only actual bad thing I would say is that the frame was a little on the flexible side. And the long swing-arm made the flex more noticeable than the older KTM's in really soft/sandy conditions. And yah, while you "had to pull the swing arm to change a sprocket" but how after are you really doing that mid-weekend ride, but the better traction available from the setup in long climbs or super rough conditions was awesome. And it felt weird. Like really weird. Wide at the pegs because of that sprocket location, narrow on the knees because of the frame geometry, and generally tall. Really encouraged you to always be standing. But, it brought me the same gold medals the others did. I guess I'm just really disappointed by the bike you chose to compare it to. A 22 TE300 could not be farther away from the target rider for the G450X or a more unfair comparison. Get a bone stock 06-08 450/525EXC and try again.
I remember when these came out and they paid Knighter big money & they had big hopes,sadly BMW pulled the plug mid project bit like they did with the Mini wrc campaign.i still have all the magazines and the dealer brochures
I had the 2012 Husqvarna SMR 511. Which is basically better, bored out, more evolved version. With full titanium Akrapovic w/akra race map 3. Definitely put the seat concept foam and cover on. Was MUCH better. Was definitely a different bike. With some quarks. But overall was a really fun Supermoto. It was sumo from factory which was cool. I would post a picture if I could. HUGE THING!! Change your oil ALOT! Besides a few sorted out bits. changing oil a lot is the absolute best thing you can do. I had a great time with my 511. Was not like having a usual 2012. The power was incredible. A bit surprising at times. Sold it because I had a 20’ KTM 690 Smcr. Found myself just never riding the 511. Thank you for the video 🤙
It would be nice, to see how much faster the bmw would be when the suspension is sorted out. Now results were odd, old 450 fourstroke with unsorted suspension against modern 2 stroke with good suspension. Fair comparison would be bmw vs 2008 ktm exc 450f, both with stock gear but suspension adjusted for the track.
Having spent most of my life in the motorcycle industry as a multi line dealer, it is sad to say that a large percentage of people, base the opinion of their motorcycle's on the opinion of the media and other peoples opinion. There was nothing wrong with the 450X.
Great stuff guys. I’d like an opinion on the BMW vs a DRZ400. I feel like they’re pretty good competitors considering your comments of the ‘duel sport’ nature of the BMW.
Brilliant content!! I own a Husaberg with the 70° engine it. They also did a FX450 MX bike with that same revolutionary engine. Be great to see one on the channel and the story of KTM killing the premium brand and stealing all their tech and even branding "Ready to Race"
Had 2 ov thease at the same time 1 standerd and 1 modified thay were both animals love the back wheel and been bmw thay come with the best shocks and best brakes
The 50+ bhp map is just a switch thats fitted on the right hand side. Sometimes just a plug. I had one for a year, absolute money pit. But a good laugh in "sport map" with a slip on pipe. The maps are just closed loop, and open loop.
What about the mighty HP2 Enduro ? Now theres a bike to take a look at . Or the Ultra dirt machine The spectacular KTM 950 Super Enduro? There is a comparison test worth revisiting. 😮
When i seen one i had no idea what it was and it turns out to be for sale.. the gentleman let me take it for a ride..very powerful and fun..but he wanted to much for it
It would be cool if BMW made a GS 500 X to compete with the 690/701 and Kove 450. Don't dive in to full on dirt bikes, but make a really killer rally style dual sport, not a race bike with plates. Rear tank concept would work great and they could develop a front aux tank with some wind protection and nav tower. Think a 300 Rally but better. BMW does have Dakar roots.
Some of the best husky 4 strokes were ironically the red head bikes made when BMW owned them. They designed that head and that is what made the bike great I wanted a 310 r so bad. That or a husaberg fe450 with the 70 degree motor
The reason BMW put the front sprocket where the swing arm pivots was to isolate the suspension from drive train. To illuminate squat. Which of course was a stupid thing to do.
There were three drivers in the Bmw team (you didn't mention this?) Juha Salminen & Marko Tarkkala finished the project and got an improved bike. Juha was E2 2009 2nd wec! D.Knight thought only about his own career and went home😢
I'll still just take my 125. Maybe you guys should try a cross country comparison between a 125, 250, 300 and whatever other cc bike you happen to have.
For those thinking this gap isn't much, it is. let me explain. 7 seconds in two minutes is a big margin in Enduro. Most special tests are around 10-12 minutes for an enduro or sprint enduro, with most races 3-6 special tests. If we extrapolate that out to real world race terms - 35-42 per special test. Depending on the event, that's somewhere in the region of 1.5-2 minutes for a low special test event or 3-4 minutes on a event with more tests. That's often gonna be the gap between winning and coming last in your class. Source: experience from racing Welsh & British Enduro champs and working at world Enduro champs. @positivemasculinity42
I have a 2009 BMW G450x and it’s an absolute beast of a machine - helluva pain to get it into a good working condition but once I got it dialed, it handled anything and everything I threw at it.
It’s impossible not to have a huge smile on your face whilst riding dirt or street, never selling this bike.
Had one. Most confused motorcycle I’ve ever raced. Spent a lot of time on suspension tuning and mapping ecu to suit aftermarket pipe. Very difficult motorcycle to work on AND to simply keep running. Goofy wide ratio transmission and a PITA to change sprocket sizes. But the bike did work surprisingly well when it was running and set up properly. Canadian Mx and enduro legend Guy Giroux put the bike on the podium at the Montreal endurocross before I got it for the remainder of that season, and I loaned it to Matt McCarthy who put it on the podium at a provincial XC race. So the potential is there. If only bmw took more time developing it and listened to test riders comments this could have evolved into a very nice xc racing motorcycle.
Thanks for taking the time to comment and share your experience with one :)
guy giroux a legend? the guy who almost ran sherco canada into the ground? and ran husqvarna into the ground? that legend?
I've got a 2010 version with just over 35 hours on it. The forks were changed for this final year of production to gold externals and revised internals. For the final year of production the bike was sold as a package from the dealers with extras including race can, map switch, smaller rear light, 2 additional front sprockets (13 and 15 tooth), smaller rear mudguard and a spare set of wheels. It is a pretty competent bike for some green lanes, despite the tiny fuel tank. It is also pretty quick with the race map and can fitted.
Cracking video and great to see your review, next you need to try the BMW HP2 Enduro!
That 2010 one sounds like a bargain if you could find one for reasonable money with all the bits. Sounds perfect for an old git like me looking for an 80% road use (crappy roads where I am, full of holes, lol) 20% light off road, maybe put trials tyres on the spare wheels. Thanks for the info on that final year one, I didn't know that.
It’s crazy to think that a 15 year old and bad (upon comparison) bike that had no set up done is still 97% as fast as the Husky!
Exactly, "We will get a 15 year old dual purpose road legal bike, that has been sitting in a barn for 10 years, give it a wash, leave the road legal gear on it , headlight tail light indicators road mufler , not touch the suspension set up, after sitting in a barn for 10 years, . And we will put this 15 year old dual sport road legal bike, set up for road riding, and compare it against a new dedicated ENDURO race bike that has been modified and set up to race, on a ENDURO course! ! . We will compare a used bike that cost $4000 that is in such bad condition, it wont start on test day, to a new bike that costs $14000", . Only 7 seconds over a 2 minute stint slower, I think that is impresive for the road legal 15 year old barn find. I would not be laughing at the $4000 dual sport, for being 7 seconds slower than a $14000 enduro bike , on a enduro course. I would be laughing at how a dedicated enduro race bike that cost a extra $10000 , is ONLY 7 seconds faster on an ENDURO course.
7 seconds in two minutes is a pretty big margin. Most special tests are around 10-12 minutes for an enduro, with most races 3-6 special tests.
If we extrapolate that out to real world term - 35-42 per special test. Depending on the event, that's somewhere in the region of 1.5-2 minutes for low special test event or 3-4 minutes on a event with more tests. That's often gonna be the gap between winning and coming last in your class.
Source: experience from racing Welsh & British Enduro champs and working at world Enduro champs. @@positivemasculinity42
It was 6 seconds slower, on a non challenging loop. Imagined if it was on some challenging terrain. It is fine for novice level riders doing casual Green Lanes.
I think the BMW made a lot of the time back on the open course part... The KTM looked WAY stronger in the woods, imho
The BMW was 6% slower so not 3%. This BMW was a full enduro bike and BMW hired a.o. the enduro World Champion on KTM David Knight and with the BMW he could even get on the podium and he gave back his contract and salary to BMW. After 2 years Knight returned to the enduro world championship on KTM and was directly world champion again.
Rode one of the magazine test units back when this came out (I worked at Dirt Rider mag at the time). High altitude trails. Rode back to back with a well setup KTM 525. We all agreed the "aged" 525 was eons better and at the end of the trip, nobody wanted to ride the beemer after the novelty wore off. The two things that stood out were massive gaps in-between gears, for low speed trails they were really bad. Also the front end just did not want to go where you wanted it. I was honestly fearing going off the trail and into a tree. Extremely vague and felt like not near enough weight on the front end. That said, I don't believe we took the time to set the sag and could have been very out of balance. Fun to watch and reminisce. Cheers from socal.
Thanks for sharing your experience .Its cool to hear how other people got on with the bike. Cheers Max
Thanks! @@999lazer Reading some old tests now. Does appear they fixed many of the problems with the 2010 model. I was definitely on the 2009 and it was an enigma
Fun fact, Andreas Lettenbichler (father of Manuel Lettenbichler, current hard enduro champion) won the Redbull Romaniacs in 2009 with a BMW G450x
th-cam.com/video/sd2kymMOdI4/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
A professional can't be constrained. But us mere mortals need every advantage.
Had one back in 2011 (Australia) Odd to say the least. Brembos, a Taiwanese Kymco engine, odd cable clutch, that seat and a factory muffler as big as 2 loaves of bread !! It did win the 2009 Romaniacs with Andreas Lettenbichler onboard. Impossible to get parts for, even back then.
A good comparison would be the BMW v Aprilia RXV.
I'd love to see that
Both were abandoned before they were fully developed.
ya... those bikes shouldn't even be compared to one another. There's still a difference between enduro, dual sport, and adventure bikes.
I own a 09 with over 20,000km on it. Does it all well - by means if you're a good rider and tall. With a few tweaks for gearing and usually upgrades this bike can handle what you give it. Faster the better.. Great bike for the in-between single track to road/double track. Who's sitting down!!! put some sheep skin down for extra kush for Sunday riding. Haven't had any issues other than the stater issue that was under warranty. Bought it with 5,000km. My second bike is a 1995 KDX200 to fill the gap in performance and fun. Good to see some "updated" content on it!
Love these history lessons. Thanks for the vid! Maybe just a suggestion, put up the specs of the bikes in txt form or something for a few seconds, it would add some context and pretty easy to do. Also comparing it to the bike's competition at the time would be interesting but I realize that might not be feasible. Great vids!
They used this motor in the CCM GP450 a few years later. Nice little 450 adv bike at the time!
Nice video Max, never knew BMW made a competition enduro, great camera and drone work, if triumph and ducati do well in MX , BMW could make another return, also that warranty was mental .
Cheers Kevin, we have some more interesting bikes coming up over the next few weeks I think you'll like:)
You learn something new every day, never remember BMW making a MX bike
we'd heard about it but never thought we'd find one.
They never built an mx bike,enduro yes
@@fastandyc Correct
The design of the clutch makes loads of sense, actually! Engine power, the horse powers, is defined as mechanical energy delivered per second. Mechanical energy is a force applied over a distance. Converted to torques and rotation-terms, spinning at high rpm at low torque you transfer the same energy per time as at lower rpm and higher torque. A lighter clutch thus will do the same work at high rpm as a heavy and slowly spinning one. Weight saved, probably less wear and tear as well. Next come probable effects from the oil between the clutch discs. In fluid dynamics, many effects go with velocity squared, and I would expect that the boundary layer between oil and plates produces some force way before the plates make direct contact. This would again reduce the wear of the plates. Next centrifugal forces will generate more flow of oil through the clutch, helping its cooling. Especially in off roading, where you rely on clutch slip a lot more than on road, these features should help lengthening clutch life significantly.
Also the force the geared edges the clutch plates make on the outer cage´s bits will be lower, reducing the wear there.
So a faster spinning clutch has many advantages that make it look desirable to a motorcycle. One may expect longer life of the parts and reduced weight.
Next having the engine rotating in the opposite direction of the gears and wheels reduces the drive's gyroscopic momentum which some sports bikes have as well now. It apparently adds a significant amount of flic-a-bility. This may have been seen as extra bonus of this setup.
I have to say that the G450 does look very interesting after all! They did try to minimise the impact of some systemic issues with it. As light as a Honda CRF 250 L but shelling out nearly twice the horsepower with some pretty clever details added. This may have been a pretty decent daily driver for adventure riders. Trying to sell the G450 through sports may have been the wrong approach.
The mud bath Itchy Boots took in Liberia comes to my mind, where her CRF300R burnt out a clutch for good. In such conditions, the G450's clutch layout and extra power might make a difference. A less loaded and better cooled clutch may have survived that torment.
why did you not compare it to that era fourstroke, surely that would have been a much fairer and valid time comparism. Incidentally that engine is in my CCM GP450 adventure and has been all round Europe on and off road, greenlaning on real snotty trails in the UK and never missed a beat.
yes we were told the CCM had a de-tuned version of the same engine. We have done some video work for CCM in the past at the same time they were just finishing selling the GP450. Its a cool bike and would be a good one to feature on the channel at some point.
@@999lazer how would it work for you to use mine?
In no way shape or form was that a fair competition" that 300 2 stroke could spank the 450s raced at Loretta's! Let's go BMW....do it again! Great video man,Like always !
When BMW owned Husqvarna their 2011 and 12 bikes had essentially the same motor but with a ridiculously close ratio six speed box.
They improved the CTS rear suspension by having a pair of individual pivots, so accessing the front sprocket was much easier.
Unfortunately there were quite a few reliability issues with the electric start.
Juha Salminen also rode this bike in 2009 and 2010. Came 2nd in 2009 riding E2 class.
Great Video! I think it would be cool to compare the bike to an enduro bike from that time period. Thanks for explaining all the weird design features of the bike though!
My buddy bought one of these for a multi-purpose play bike/commuter, and if you look at it from the perspective of an option opposing a DS400 or similarly fashioned machine it is not as disappointing of an experience really. Now he did do some tuning, added an aftermarket exhaust, and such. Which certainly livened it from stock configuration nicely.
He had his friend who is a performance suspension guru set the front and rear up for his weight and it made a significant difference in the handling off the tarmac. Would it ever be a true competition machine, IMO, no. First off it has too long of a wheel base IMO which makes navigating tight technical sections more daunting and increase your chance of getting high centered as it requires more effort to get the frontend up and more difficult to hop around on the rear wheel. On the flip side the rear end does not constantly seek to pass the frontend and get you sideways near as much. For faster logging roads and mining trails where we rode a majority of the time was a great asset . It was a seriously fun bike for play and adventure but not anywhere near MX and Enduro competition grade IMO.
Well first cheers for testing this bike, I would like to see a comparison with the Husqvarna variant. Yes I would like to see BMW try again, maybe with the same motor but conventional chassis and suspension.
Thanks for watching Rusty
They should buy the Husaberg drawings and use those as a starting point. That was "strange" engineering that worked. An update of their engine in a new frame with modern components would be interesting.
WTF.. couldn't you find a husky 450 to make it a square test.. Not even a match..
or a KTM cause the brand with the fckd up name is never a match to a BMW
@@jonasf1275 99 wouldn't know a square test as i doubt he knows the diffrence between a 2stoke and a 4stroke.. let alone the category of similar year models and cubic capacity.. all hail shit tube i guess..😂😂
What an outstanding video - I have seen this model BMW in person but never had the chance to ride one !!! Amazing hearing from the great David Knight !!! ( any idea what he is doing these days ? ) At the time I owned a 2009 Husqvarna TE 450 off road model which was a very nice bike - I added arrow exhaust , bark busters and hit the woods !!! I have seen the GX450 for sale every once in a while and thought about it due to all its unique features ( kinda weird features lol ) Blaz thanks again for the hard work you put into these videos 👍
No problem Mike, glad you enjoyed the video. :)
I heard about those bikes sometimes being restricted to about 44 hp, and putting out slightly above 50 when unrestricted.
be interesting to see you do this test against an old husky or ktm etc from same era - i think testing against the new school is a tad unfair lol - imo it is a damn shame BMW gave up so soon, the dual sport market could / would be a great place for them now with an updated version of this
So pleased you covered this bike. I almost bought one years ago and the front sprocket was what first put me off. I soon realised there could be other quirks too, as well as limited parts availability, and is why I didn't buy one.
Very interesting to see the comparison, despite the obvious age difference.
Thanks for watching Jack:)
A friend of mine was given one of those to race Enduro's and Hare Scrambles on by a local BMW Dealer shortly after they came out . He was/ is an absolute jet in the woods and a capable winner . As much as they tired and tried to get that bike up to the level of handling & performance he needed it just wasn't working good enough . He was on the gas hard at my place on the mid week ride nights we did and he came off it in spectacular fashion on one afternoon and luckily was un hurt , but the Beemer V Oak Trees contest left the Beemer bent kind of like a banana . That was the end of Beemer , we never saw it again .
Lgend goes that the clutch eas made this way in order to leave space for the coaxial swingarm
Cool video and love the choice of bikes. That track looked like a lot of fun, something us regular dirt riders would ride and not Hard Enduro difficult. Well done.
Thanks for watching:)
Yet another superb vlog about an obscure bike not many of us know about. 💯🔥❤️👊🏻
Thank you 🙌
Great comparison and some inovative features on this unusual bike. My guess is that the BMW is a good starting point for further development (as David Knight said), but BM thought it wasn't worth the bother.
Try the Ktm 950 super enduro. I still have one. Excellent bike
I remember watching David Knight on it at the tough one enduro, he was in the first 3 but retired out of the race. Good review you done of the bike.
thanks :)
Saw one at the dealership. Always wondered why i never heard of it
I had a 2011 husky tc449. Basically updated mx version of that. Loved it
They should give it another go. Like you said though don't try to reinvent the wheel just make small tweaks to what already works. Glad you got the bmw, I had forgotten about this bike all together.
These bikes are awesome. Still ripping mine after 300hrs! I'm never getting rid of mine!
Also a superb supermoto ;)
The front sprocket arrangement was used on CCM’s back in the 70’s
A cluth directly at the crank can be much smaller, because there is no reduction (around 1:3) like on standard primary drives. So the torque it has to handle, is smaller by the factor of a standard primary drive gear ratio. I think that is the reason. A clutch on the crank was also used in old MZ 2-stroke bikes from east germany.
The high-speed crankshaft clutch is much more sensitive and absolutely smooth-running (if you have lubricated the cable properly)
Only the noise is completely different.
Sachs 502 ( Hercules M5 ) also runs with chluth on Crangshaft
It is a very tall bike and you cannot change the height, otherwise a great bike. I love mine.
I really enjoyed this one.
I like seeing the "failures" be reviewed and compared.
It gives us a fresh perspective again of the older and "flawed" products that got slammed down and into oblivion by the purist to be never seen or heard of again.
A shame, really, as I would have liked BMW to keep developing this oddball.
They were different and that on itself it's a win for me.
Can't blame them for trying.
Stay weird and fresh, #BMWMOTORRAD ! 🤘😎👍
You Forgot Letti won Romaniacs on one. You should compare a 2008 KTM 450 exc to it...I think it would be a much fairer comparison. Apart from that an excellent video 👍
The front sprocket being at the swing arm pivot was also supposed to limit the affect the chain has on rear suspension.
Love your videos u keep bringing us crossers that most didnt even know existed, BMW are awesome engineers but they got this so wrong wat a shame keep em coming max 😊
Thanks, will do!
Only ever seen one of these bikes once at a dealership and it was supermoto really slick looking bike wish I would have scooped it up
There is a race map 3 for the te449/te511s fixed the flame out problems. Very hard to find parts for them now days. Bit unfair it’s a complete different bike to the husky 300 would of been compared to the wr450 or something like that
Bmw like Cannondale before them tried to reinvent the category. They made a big splash and signed a couple of top riders one that walked away from the contract well before the end of the season. He never came to terms with the handling. The clutch wore plates quickly as well. No one at the factory seemed to understand the marketplace.
DAVID KNIGHT
@@robvanduren761 Met him at endurocross in Vegas. Good dude.
It was never going to work the thing ran backwards so the front end is powering into the ground when you open the the throttle you’re never going to lift the front end, KTM did adopt the rear tank for the 690 enduro though
Having the front sprocket concentric with the swingarm pivot’s a great idea, pity they did it in a away making changing sprockets a hassle. Mind you it means less wear in the whole chaindrive assembly.
you can tell the forks especially are super soft, lots of nose dive and a unbalanced chassis….did you try adjusting clickers etc?
yes we tweaked it a bit on the day, but it was renown for being too soft, thanks or watching
great channel, big fan from canada!
More of a KLR450/CRF450L competitor than an actual enduro bike. The BMW was a great dual sport and made a good rally bike. CCM used this motor in the GP450 and the was a mega long distance trail bike.
Or even 450 exc
I rode the ISDE qualifiers 06 - 10. 300EXC, YZ250F, G450X, TE310, 450EXC. Having fuel injection in 08 was miles better for coping with location changes than the 38/39mm carbs. The suspension wasn't any harder to figure out than the KTM's PDS. The only actual bad thing I would say is that the frame was a little on the flexible side. And the long swing-arm made the flex more noticeable than the older KTM's in really soft/sandy conditions. And yah, while you "had to pull the swing arm to change a sprocket" but how after are you really doing that mid-weekend ride, but the better traction available from the setup in long climbs or super rough conditions was awesome. And it felt weird. Like really weird. Wide at the pegs because of that sprocket location, narrow on the knees because of the frame geometry, and generally tall. Really encouraged you to always be standing. But, it brought me the same gold medals the others did.
I guess I'm just really disappointed by the bike you chose to compare it to. A 22 TE300 could not be farther away from the target rider for the G450X or a more unfair comparison. Get a bone stock 06-08 450/525EXC and try again.
Strange thing, they had a good bike in the F650GS Dakar.
I got the bmw g650 xchallenge which is the more off road version 😊 great on the lanes
I remember when these came out and they paid Knighter big money & they had big hopes,sadly BMW pulled the plug mid project bit like they did with the Mini wrc campaign.i still have all the magazines and the dealer brochures
I remember when david knight left the bmw team cos of this bike😬🥳
I had the 2012 Husqvarna SMR 511.
Which is basically better, bored out, more evolved version. With full titanium Akrapovic w/akra race map 3. Definitely put the seat concept foam and cover on. Was MUCH better. Was definitely a different bike. With some quarks. But overall was a really fun Supermoto. It was sumo from factory which was cool. I would post a picture if I could.
HUGE THING!! Change your oil ALOT! Besides a few sorted out bits. changing oil a lot is the absolute best thing you can do.
I had a great time with my 511. Was not like having a usual 2012. The power was incredible. A bit surprising at times. Sold it because I had a 20’ KTM 690 Smcr. Found myself just never riding the 511.
Thank you for the video 🤙
If I remember it right, the Romanian rider Tara Ioan won the Red bull Romaniacs silver class on a G450X in 2010 or 2011.
It would be nice, to see how much faster the bmw would be when the suspension is sorted out. Now results were odd, old 450 fourstroke with unsorted suspension against modern 2 stroke with good suspension. Fair comparison would be bmw vs 2008 ktm exc 450f, both with stock gear but suspension adjusted for the track.
Having spent most of my life in the motorcycle industry as a multi line dealer, it is sad to say that a large percentage of people, base the opinion of their motorcycle's on the opinion of the media and other peoples opinion. There was nothing wrong with the 450X.
Great stuff guys. I’d like an opinion on the BMW vs a DRZ400. I feel like they’re pretty good competitors considering your comments of the ‘duel sport’ nature of the BMW.
They need to make a Motocross comeback 🔥🔥🔥💯
have you tested a Aprilia MXV 450? another cool design that didnt work out so well as a motorcycle
sure have, here is the link th-cam.com/video/UidnGupacGs/w-d-xo.html
Brilliant content!! I own a Husaberg with the 70° engine it. They also did a FX450 MX bike with that same revolutionary engine. Be great to see one on the channel and the story of KTM killing the premium brand and stealing all their tech and even branding "Ready to Race"
Not the same motor . Husabeerg had that motor before the were purchased by the group that owns KTM .
Had 2 ov thease at the same time 1 standerd and 1 modified thay were both animals love the back wheel and been bmw thay come with the best shocks and best brakes
That was entertaining as hell 🔥👊✌️😉
Thanks for watching dude, glad you enjoyed it :-D
2008-2010 is *3* years!!
The 50+ bhp map is just a switch thats fitted on the right hand side. Sometimes just a plug. I had one for a year, absolute money pit. But a good laugh in "sport map" with a slip on pipe. The maps are just closed loop, and open loop.
Would have compared to 450 four stroke or XR 600.
Looks like it rides like a DRZ400E. Heavy tail end, heavy bike for off road all together. But goes anywhere you need it to.
At 243 lbs, I don’t think it’s heavy compared to others in its class.
I wish @999lazer you could build a banshee engine in a dirtbike
What about the mighty HP2 Enduro ? Now theres a bike to take a look at . Or the Ultra dirt machine The spectacular KTM 950 Super Enduro? There is a comparison test worth revisiting. 😮
Would like to see you test ride vertemati/vor bike
we're on that one :) thanks for the suggestion
Next, the Husqvarna cross version, with coaxial swingarm end contra rotating engine
BMW brought Husky and they rebranded them.
Id still love one as a talking point at meets!
You should do a review of the Aprilia RXV450
When BMW pulled the plug on this bike,Kymco had loads of 450 engine's spare which CCM, used in there 450, adventure bikes.
BMW looks nice thought with that frame but why the long back end swing arm?
When i seen one i had no idea what it was and it turns out to be for sale.. the gentleman let me take it for a ride..very powerful and fun..but he wanted to much for it
Didnt David Knight race one of these for a little while?
"BMW started the adventure touring market" KLR 650, hold my rotella
“ Some say, The very First KLR built is still running and operational ! “
First KLR 1986,, First BMW GS 1980
Interesting review, thanks. You should consider giving the old girl new tires and setting up the suspension properly and have another go.
Isn't that bike still the core of the Speedbrain/Hero Rally bike?
That looks like a TX300 rather than a TE?
It would be cool if BMW made a GS 500 X to compete with the 690/701 and Kove 450. Don't dive in to full on dirt bikes, but make a really killer rally style dual sport, not a race bike with plates. Rear tank concept would work great and they could develop a front aux tank with some wind protection and nav tower. Think a 300 Rally but better. BMW does have Dakar roots.
It's wierd that bmw being a motorcycle company first.. never really got into mx
Some of the best husky 4 strokes were ironically the red head bikes made when BMW owned them. They designed that head and that is what made the bike great
I wanted a 310 r so bad. That or a husaberg fe450 with the 70 degree motor
The reason BMW put the front sprocket where the swing arm pivots was to isolate the suspension from drive train. To illuminate squat. Which of course was a stupid thing to do.
A better comparison would have been a ktm 450 exc seeing as that was the direct 1 to 1 competitor
This bike had a lot of great innovative ideas that actually worked well, imagine if it had a chance to evolve over 15 years.
There were three drivers in the Bmw team (you didn't mention this?) Juha Salminen & Marko Tarkkala finished the project and got an improved bike. Juha was E2 2009 2nd wec! D.Knight thought only about his own career and went home😢
I'll still just take my 125. Maybe you guys should try a cross country comparison between a 125, 250, 300 and whatever other cc bike you happen to have.
You need to get a new triumph tf250x do a real review for us! The British legacy mx bike been re born
watch this space ;)
Get in there! 👍👍👍👍👍
For those thinking this gap isn't much, it is. let me explain. 7 seconds in two minutes is a big margin in Enduro. Most special tests are around 10-12 minutes for an enduro or sprint enduro, with most races 3-6 special tests.
If we extrapolate that out to real world race terms - 35-42 per special test. Depending on the event, that's somewhere in the region of 1.5-2 minutes for a low special test event or 3-4 minutes on a event with more tests. That's often gonna be the gap between winning and coming last in your class.
Source: experience from racing Welsh & British Enduro champs and working at world Enduro champs. @positivemasculinity42
the east german bikes Mz have the clutch on crankshaft
BMW $hould Go for it 😁... We want another dirt bike with 3-year 36,000 mi warranty 👍🏾
Nice job
Should've been compared to the husky 710 enduro, another dual sport, set it all up, and then have a go
why not put it up against a 350 or 450 husky ?
Went to David knight's talk night at last year's TT.. He talked about his time at BMW, the issues and the 500 grand a year they were paying him! 😉