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Rode my first ebike a few days ago in the hills around Lake Tahoe. I was on a family vacation and didn’t want to be gone for the usual 5-7 hour ride. In the big picture IMHO… it’s about TIME! We’re only given so much and whatever gets in your way.. work,family,illness recovery or age, our ability/time to do things is reduced bit by bit. The ebike will allow me to still have the time to see the things I love being out on the trails in less time and get back to other things that are just as important to me. I honestly don’t think my climbing muscles will stay as strong because I’m not pushing as hard but the smiles will be just as strong. At 74 my doc tells me I’m more fit than many 40-50 year olds and ask what’s my ‘secret’…. Only one… KEEP MOVING!!! Ordering my ebike today!!! Cheers.
Wow, this is amazing! 74 yrs old and still riding like a beast! Love it! Call Chris at Salt Cycles for special pricing and custom built bikes like no other bike shop can. 801-943-8502 Thanks for the support!
Great video, Jason. E-bike is a life changer for me and it got me back into mtb after 15 years not riding and gained from 170lbs to 225lbs and diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I tried to get back into mtb but it was so hard. I was dying on a trail I used to ride as a warmup. I bought a hybrid e-bike to commute to work and gradually started lose weight. Dropped back down to 170 within a year. I started riding with highest assist and gradually lower the a assist. Once the low assist got easier, I started analog road biking with my friends and gotten stronger doing endurance ride them. Then I took my old XC Santa Cruz Superlight out the trail I was dying, but this time I am riding it like I was 15 years ago. I still use my e-bike to commute to work and on the weekends, I do mtb on Saturday and road riding on Sunday. I went from type2 diabetes to pre-diabetic. Never thought I'd be riding again at 51 years old, but to be able to mtb on an analog bike with your own power is liberating. I even bought a Pivot 429 trail earlier this year. My Santa Cruz Superlight is sitting in my shed collecting dust. I didn't want to get a MTB ebike because there are certain parks in my area don't allow e-bike. But when I bomb down the mountain I feel like I earned it.
I’m 70 and purchased the X01 SL a month ago and absolutely love it. It’s like I’m 15 years younger. I ride mainly in eco because the trails I ride (powder mtn snow basin etc) that’s really all I need. But my SB115 still gets ridden. Just a different riding experience. Great video!
Exactly. There really is no need to say more. They are here to stay. Same etiquette as analog bikes. Not many people climbing at 20mph that I've seen here in So. Cal. They are lifesavers for many of us!
@jayefyve9212 EXACTLY. Ive been ebiking for a while and have literally never seen anyone climb at 15mph let alone 20. Also, no need to say who its for.
Jason, this is the best MTB video I have seen! I’ve been riding more than 30 years and thinking about these light e-MTB’s. When I was your age I could ride your route. Today I can do it but it is very tough. You hit all points right on. Great job. I need one of these now!
I can relate to getting your Dad out on one of the ebikes. I lost my Dad 3 yrs ago and there is nothing I wouldn't give to spend another day with him. Enjoy your Dad while you can!! Hope he can hit the trails with you soon.
Personally, I’ve never ridden an e-bike, but I’d own one in a heartbeat. As a MTB community we really need to get over the e-bike stigma. Stop caring what other people think. You don’t need to explain or justify why you ride an e-bike. Thanks for testing the waters with your review, Yum Yum. I look forward to seeing more e-bike content.
Even though I'm not at the point I needed an e-mtb, with at least half of my friends riding them now, I decided to take advantage of Specialized's big sale. I knew climbing would be easier, but what I didn't expect is that it would make the fun even more fun. I find that I want to ride more often and for much longer. I still train on my old bikes to participate in cycling events, but when I'm just looking to have fun, the first bike I grab is the e-mtb.
Glad to see you showing some love to e bikes. I own 2 e-bikes and 2 analog bikes. Love them all for different reasons. I’m 53…pretty solid rider, but nowadays…I don’t want to suffer as much as I used to..just wanna ride and have fun. Other days I enjoy suffering a bit more. Still enjoy my regular pedal bikes. I really think more people should give them a chance B4 hating on them. Keep riding 🤙🏽
I've had a Fuel EXe for about 6 months. Before that I've had a few Ripmo's, a Mojo 4, a couple of Evils, Santa Cruz, etc. The EXe is the most fun out of all of them. I thought I would ride both pedal and e, but I doubt I'll go back to a regular pedal bike. And... Lab Austere Hip Pack is the best pack!
Ebikes are for the pussified society we live in. My father is 85 years old and still rides north of 250 miles a week on the road. I plan to do the same under my own power.
I have watched a lot of your videos and never seen the dirt looking so perfect. I love having an ebike and a normal bike as a combo, for all the reasons you mentioned. Its also opened up new trails that were miserable hike a bikes before but are now a tech climbing challenge. more variety is more better 🙂
100% there are a lot of great trails near slc utah but they have absolutely miserable climbs.... the e machine is a game changer for that and recovery days. Thanks for your comment and yes, the dirt was total hero dirt on this morning!! yumyum!!
I have an Orbea Rise Hydro. Bought it to recover and ride with a knee injury. Now I ride on recovery day as well. For the $ its still a great machine! I often ride it with the motor off when riding with my analog riding group......
Best part of that review was you talking about dad! Ebikes are a blast! When I can afford to own a 2nd bike,, I'll get one. I gave the ebike a very solid try and still prefer a standard pedal bike.
I agree, I totally prefer the ride and feel of a standard bike. Thanks! I was unsure how many people would actually make it through the entire video... I edited out some of the stuff I said about my Dad..... we used to go early season hike skiing and build jumps before the actual ski season lifts opened. I did my first back flip off a jump my Dad and I built together when I was 12 years old. And dozens more memories with my Dad... would love to ride with him!
Thanks for the e-bike content. Look forward to more. It’s all about using good trail etiquette and respect. No matter what you ride! Love the point about getting your dad out there. Also keeps people with certain medical conditions active. Thanks Jason
+50yrs here, no e-bike...BUT, a buddy of mine had a heart attack and got an eMTB. He rides the trails now twice as far before work as i can in the same amount of time. He still gets a workout, watt and calorie wise, just gets to go further in a shorter amount of time. It does get me to thinking...
Yea, the problem is very few of us really have the discipline to suffer when you have a button at your fingertips to make it easier. Not saying you still don't get a workout but it's not the same. A friend of mine said the same, he'll just ride the 50lb bike in ECO mode and get the same workout. Well he never does and now he's complaining he's out of shape and regrets selling his SB140 and now shopping for a new pedal bike to supplement the E-bike.
Welcome to the Party Jason. We’ve been waiting.👍😉 What you experienced at the top of Rush about finding flow everywhere is what Bosch initially coined “Uphill Flow”. Ebikes are just fun! Welcome to the dark side.😁🤘
Wow, yeah, uphill flow.... totally get it. Yeah, the first 3rd of Rush is very pedaly on an analog bike.... the e machine was magic there and turned an otherwise meh trail into money!!
I watch your Ripmo videos many times before I buy. Still in love with it. But I am about to have my first ride on E-bike today, and I see your video pop out. lol
I have been an e-bike advocate for years. As long as they are allowed on those particular trails enjoy. My wife was able to ride until 8.5 months pregnant on her E-MtB, and after her knee injury and surgeries. I ride an SL sometimes and love the thing. Whatever you ride have good etiquette and make sure it’s legal for those trails, especially if there are equestrians on them lol.
What do you mean, mane sure to only ride on trails where motors are allowed? I ride mine anywhere and everywhere because having the motor makes no difference to anyone in any way, other than the amount of enjoyment i have, and the amount of distance i cover.
@@HarryKulohI guess I just prefer to respect the land managers rules particularly if it’s privately owned areas. If you don’t have a disability and e-bikes are not allowed then why ride there, and not ride somewhere else? Some trail systems are pretty dangerous to have e-bikes coming up the hill at 15mph, especially when people aren’t expecting it. Also riding e-bikes where they aren’t allowed can cause problems for regular Mtb’s if you get caught.
I love my EMTB. Full sized Kenevo Expert with a dual crown. I’m fit but instead of doing a 11 mile 2 hour ride with 2k vert I do a 20 mile 4K vert ride after work. So much more descending and still getting great workout in. All about the full size tho. Love the range and power. I’d only look at an SL if I could only have one bike.
The problem isn't people riding ebikes. The problem is people who haven't tried them. I've listen to some people thinking they are like a 250 cc motorcycle that looks like a mtb. Ebikes should go where ever mtb's go, like all of europe does.
@Hoops176 funny a park ranger asked a hiker what they thought of ebikes.she totally went off how unsafe and terrible they are. The park ranger was standing over an ebike. People who don't have them, feel they should make the decision against them.
That "clunk" during shifts is normal even with SRAM, you have to slightly ease up on pedal pressure for a second and you can really minimize the clunk. Once you get used to it its no big deal.
Thanks for this video speaking as someone who has been on the fence for an e-bike. You cover a lot of the considerations including the benefit of just riding TO the trail on road that isn’t usually mentioned. You have convinced me it’s time to sell my n+1 analog for an e-bike!!
I’ve owned a full power 53lb Ebike (YT Decoy), then Went to a 42lb Mid Powered Ebike (Orbea Rise), then went the other way to a 57lb Pole Voima, and now back on a 38.5lb Specialized Levo SL. I have decided light weight is the way to go.
haha I've been corrected enough times now.... I guess the acceptable term for pedal bike (traditional/regular bike) is analog bike.... what do I know lol
@@mtbyumyum Well I used your code and bought a hip pack today! So you did well and with the 2020 Ripley I bought on your recommendation.. As an acoustic guitarist, just the term acoustic (referring to properties of sound) seems out of place like a penguin in the Sahara. the bike industry comes up with some wild adjectives.
First E-bike review nice! Would love a comparison to Levo SL Gen2 next, its basically a Stumpy Evo, love mine. Coming from a Switchblade which I love not sure if I will ride it much anymore though here in FL Levo too much fun, having fun up hill is amazing.
I'm in my mid 60s. Riding since the days of Gary Fisher. The SL emtb are on my radar. I've got both analog - Revel and emtb -Specialized. I've got a bad hip and even though I pedal the bike with the motor off much of the time, I'm thinking I could go with just one bike that will be easier on my hip without assistance, and there for when I need it to take some of the pressure off. I never use the motor to go faster.... Just to take some load on the steeper or longer sections. I usually only burn 5 percent of the battery an hour. Never come close to needing it's 700 Wh It's funny, the heavier bike does some things better due to its inertia. At 40lbs with a motor could be the best compromise
I ride full powered e bikes rode allsorts. Recently rode an SL levo was way above what i thought it be like, more than enough power, really low weight and if i end up buying another e bike it be lightweight as i felt more satisfied off riding it than i do been on a full powered e bike
I love this comment. This is exactly what I think e bikes are made for. Not to blast 1000 miles an hour up the hill. Just sime assistance to get you through your ride or to keep up with other people who are maybe more fit. Blasting up the trail at 19 mph is difficult for other users on the trail to deal with. I like the idea of just using assistance as needed to get you where you need to go. Also this SL size E bike is easier to manage than the big ones and is plenty of power.
Fox has e-tuned or e-optimized, one is only slightly modified from a regular fox fork and the other has more changes. I think the e-forks also have different pressure charts since on them since the bike+rider weight is significantly higher.
Thanks for touching on e bike / trail etiquette. As a die hard analog guy, there’s really cool people on eBikes…but there are a some that really aren’t. Hopefully in time the etiquette on trails will improve.
I think it also applies to analog riders. Some very cool and courteous riders and there's always a few that aren't. I think there's a 'strava' effect that causes more potential danger on the trails than ebikes! I've had 3 head on accidents (while going uphill on analog) with guys screaming downhill into blind curves. I have 4 bikes. One E and 3 analog. Ride and enjoy them all (in a courteous and respectful manner)
@@SteveCaughlin 100% respect that opinion. Strava effect is real. I used to ride with a Garmin on my bar to try and hit certain segments. I've learned that it wasn't fun anymore...and just ride with Strava running on my phone in my bag, out of site. I still think that ebike rider etiquette is the bigger issue though - especially new to biking riders.
Thanks for weighing in on this guys. I agree that I see more "new" riders or "unexperienced" riders on ebikes these days... not a bad thing just more likely to be unaware of certain things including etiquette... That said, a mean or unkind person is as they are regardless up what bike they ride. The ebike might exacerbate their poor behavior or attitude given the extra performance of the bike but it's still the rider in need of the attitude adjustment to correct the problem.
I was lucky enough to find a Shuttle SL in the early spring of this year, long before the trails were ride-able in northern Utah. Previous bike was a Trail 429 but I got way out of shape over the long miserable depressing winter we had, and the doc warned better be careful getting my legs back with my age(55) and family history. I have ridden the wheels of the Shuttle SL in gentle breeze mode, and found that it is absolutely perfect for 3 to 4 hour low intensity sustained state workouts. You mentioned that its kind of like a long road ride and that's exactly how I feel about it. Roadies are crazy fit, and their secret is just lots of saddle time. That's exactly what the Shuttle SL allows. Though I can climb a bit faster with gentle breeze assist its definitely not so fast that its a danger at all to other trail users. This hasn't been the slightest issue. I've ridden twice in river and rocket assist levels. Both times were to get out of heavy thunderstorms in a hurry. And yes... the bike does absolutely fly if you need it too. In terms of fitness its been an absolute game changer. So much more saddle time. I've lost 30 pounds over the summer and I am stronger now on my "analog" bikes then I have been in decades.
I currently trade off between the Shuttle SL and a gravel bike which I actually run on the singletrack. So the haters scoff when I'm on the e-assist bike, and then they think I'm bad ass when they see me crushing it on the same trails on the gravel bike. Its all very confusing for the haters ROFL. One interesting thing about the Shuttle SL is that it actually peddles just fine without e-assist turned on at all. Though obviously much heavier it climbs just like the Trail 429... comfortably and efficiently. So if you start to feel like a more intense workout after your warm up you can just turn off assist and suffer to your heart's content. I'm looking forward to your full review. I wonder if you'll notice the one thing on the Shuttle SL that absolutely sucks. I won't give it away, but I hear/hope they're working on a recall.
Wow! What a story. Thank you for sharing! I love hearing stuff like this. I'm unaware of any recalls on this bike but one thing I wish was different is the battery display... I wish it was an actual % of battery life and not just 5 glowing colored lights. I wish I new I was at 60% or 41% and not 3 glowing lights on the top tube.
@mtbyumyum there is a way to know the exact battery percentage and not a 20% range. Needs to be paired to a smart watch. I have my Shuttle SL connected to my garmin. Works perfectly. 👍
@@mtbyumyum The thing that I found lacking is actually the controller. The controller on my bike is truly terrible. Its a cheap piece of plastic and it has seized up on me twice when exposed to dust or mud. A blast of compressed air got the dust/mud out and its working fine again but that didn't help out on the trail. However I noticed on the Fazua website that they have released version 2 of the controller, and it looks far better. Looks like a very easy update too - just plug and play. I'll check in with my bike shop and report how things go.
Great vid and interesting listening to your thoughts bc you and I are in about the same place in our emtb journey, although I night be slightly ahead of you in figuring some of this e stuff out. Lol. Im 51 and decided it was emtb time over the 4th when I was on an mtb/camping trip where I was camping and riding a different location each day up in the mountains. So we’re talking big climbs, rocky gnar, and big downs, the kind that are as exhausting as climbing. By day 3 I was already fatigued when I woke up. Even the first two days I wanted to ride more each day, but I just didn’t physically have anymore climbs in me, and the downs were getting dangerous as the fatigue was building and the skills were deteriorating. That’s when I made the decision to get an emtb. Not getting rid of my Bronson, and not planning on using the emtb for my local stuff, but rather trips like I had over the 4th, big mountain climbing days to access out of reach trails, riding shuttle places alone when I dont have someone to ride with and shuttle, and hitting and trying to clean just some janky stuff that is unrideable on analog bikes. At first I thought I wanted a lightweight emtb- something like my Bronson but with a motor. Just enough motor to allow me to get more runs in. But then I demoed a SC Heckler and a Specialized Levo at a fest in some WV gnar. Both were full power emtbs. And what I realized is that emtbing with them is a different experience altogether. The weight is actually beneficial in gnar with the right sus and a motor to allow you to overcome it. And re sus, and components in general, for the type of riding I want to do you can just go big and burly and not worry about adding a few lbs bc you have the motor. So go 38, DD tires (maybe cushcore too), 220 rotors etc. I killed the rear tire on the Spec on my demo ride, and can totally see me doing that and to a lot of other lighter component parts also on emtbs given how I want to use it (plus at 205-210 lbs Im not the lightest rider in the world). I just rode an Ibis Oso in a parking lot when I dropped off my bike for service and wow, was blown away. It’s full power but actually not that much heavier than a similarly spec’d lightweight bike and pretty lively. A Large Oso weighs 53 lbs but that is with all the big burly stuff, including DD tires. For comparison, a Transition Relay at the same price point (8K) alloy GX (cable) PNW version weighs 50 lbs medium. The new SC Heckler SL, which I suspect will ride like my Bronson but with a motor, in Medium and with the S build with cable GX wieghs 43 lbs. BUT, compare the specs- EXO front and EXO + rear, smaller rear rotor, 36 up front. Start adding similar components spec and the weight difference becomes a lot less. And then there is the difference in motor power between the Fazua (the Pivot SL, Heckler SL, Relay) and the TQ (Trek exe) and a full power motor. Watch Jeff Kendall Reed’s vid for the difference when you really start tackling emtb climbs which I’ll link. The lighter bikes with less powerful motor’s don’t have enough power for some the emtb stuff one might want to try to clean. Now add on a heavier rider like myself. So now Im leaning more full power emtb bc I think it suits how I want to use it more. I think for riders looking to ride kind of the same trails they do with their analog bikes but be able to squeeze in rides in shorter times, or people who maybe don’t have the fitness or arenolder and want to ride less steep and gnarly trails and more machine groomed flow stuff, emtbs with lighter component spec can be a good solution. For what I am looking for though I think maybe full power with the burliest build might be better. And re fitness, one thing I realized on the full power is that if I wanted a more analog bike workout, just ride it in eco mode. In fact I really liked eco mode and found it was plenty for riding the trail, then I would kick it up when I hit an emtb feature. Of course the higher modes were also a blast to go into to just hammer a trail- take a trail you might ride at like 9 mph on an analog and hit it at like 18 mph on the emtb. A totally different experience. I think one can get better at high speed stuff too bc you can ride at DH type speeds on non-DH trails. So your reaction times and skills have to sharpen for that. The other thing to think about with emtbs that is huge for me is whether you can charge the battery off bike or not. If all of your charging will be done in your garage, then a non removable battery is not a big deal. But if you are traveling, what a pain in the butt to have to bring your bike in a hotel every day or take it to an electric outlet at the campground (if there even is one which isnt the case if you are boondocking). And if removable you can charge the battery in your car or truck while driving. I keep my mtb in the bed of my Gladiator with an Alucab cap on it. With a removable battery I leave the bike and just pop out the battery to charge wherever. Also with a removable battery you can fly with your emtb and just ship the battery to your destination. You cannot fly with an emtb without a removable battery. And lastly I think it would be nice for versatility sake to be able to ride without the battery. Not that I’d be doing it much, but having the structural integrity to do so would be nice, say if battery dies or other issue with power while on trail, or if at lift assist DH park on a trip that doesnt allow emtbs on the lift etc. I hate renting bikes- I spend 80% of my day getting the bike dialed and used to it and just as I do my day is pretty much over. So those are my thoughts. I’ll link Jeff’s vid and my vid of hammering a Heckler in a ricky pedal trail. Cheers and have fun. 🤙
The real underrated feature of an e-bike is the ability for the Specialized Mastermind system to set a target heart rate and have the power assist adjust to maintain that heart rate. It's an absolute game changer. Do other manufacturers offer that option?
@@mtbyumyum it's been a total game changer for me. I can ride with absolutely anyone of my friends whether they're in pedal bikes or SL's or full powered E Bikes. The Spesh will adjust output of the motor to your heart rate. I set mine to about 155 and the assist will keep me in the 145-160 range. It's pretty great. I'm trying to figure out if this is just a Spesh thing or maybe Bosch has it too?
Wow, I feel so old. I just ride bikes for fun and can tell when I'm getting a workout or not, paying attention to how my body feels. Dont they have apps for that anyways?
You said, "I just ride bikes for fun and can tell when I'm getting a workout or not, paying attention to how my body feels" Well for me, and many others, using a heart rate monitor makes riding even more fun! Seeing in real time how your body responds to effort is really neat. You can also govern your effort so as to not "over do it" although it's more often used as a training tool to optimize your time in training. Burn out is a real thing for endurance athletes and knowing when your body needs a break is pretty important. Heart rate monitors help a lot here. I could go on but I'll spare you haha
Good on sight review. Not convinced to switch to electric, yet. It is making bike too complex and too expensive too;) totally get it that e-power make your ride faster and this can open sport to some riders. This tech needs lighter, longer lasting battery and this will be a huge change. Anyway your video makes me want to ride 😀
Yeah, great point. I've thought a lot about these ebikes and really thing as time goes on they're really nail down the tech and start seeing even lighter weight batteries... very interesting
Everyone talks about more mileage for a given effort. To me, that means accelerated wear on trails and features. This is the rule no matter the activity. Increased ease of access = increased wear and deterioration of the natural environment. This means trail management budgets need to increase proportionally to the increased traffic. I've seen this throughout Utah as National and State Parks have struggled to keep up with increased foot traffic, not always from those who know how to respect the trails. Not trying to be a downer, I just hope as a community we adequately help support local trail organizations and exercise good etiquette no matter what type of bike we ride.
My favorite part of this video is when you were going to explain what’s different with the E tuned fox fork and then said “ I don’t know what it has man” 😂 If I had the budget for a second bike I’d love one of these. Don’t think they are allowed in park city anyway though.
I purchased my '17 429 trail with advice from your review, and still enjoying it. Sure would love the SL, but I can't get past the price! Not to mention the depreciation value in just a few years. Just ridiculous how expensive this sport has become, and the ever changing technology that makes a 4 or 5 yr old bike obsolete.
That loose right hander at the bottom of Jacob's is definitely more exciting this year. Can't really commit until the end where the rut is. Seems like I almost crash each time. Also, the lip may be trashed, but there is just enough with a couple of pedals to send you to the transition😛
Only thing I'm worried about if i bought an Ebike would be that. I would never grab my regular bike again! An lose all my Torque/ Beastness that took soo many years to build. 🎉
You can ride the SL with the motor off and it's just a 40lb enduro bike. You can also tune them. I've pedaled my 52lb levo up after it died. Wasn't terrible but it's a heavy bike. The SL like the Transition are built with that in mind.
It’s a personal mindset choice that I faced (currently face?). I had an analog crash that kept me off bikes for two years and as a celebration I added an EMTB to the stable. I’m usually feeling guilty about losing fitness, so I actually ride the analogs more. I enjoy the sense of fitness accomplishment where with the E I’m definitely prone to cheat on sweating. However, we all have days where we are too tired for a ride or too short of available time, and that, for me, is when the E is so, so much fun. Basically, when I’m just looking for fun, with just a little sweat, I’ll grab the E.
I completely understand where you’re coming from but honestly, there’s no way I would keep grabbing this E bike over my other bikes. It’s just such a different experience. I still prefer the regular bike and experience.
I think the new Orbea Rise would be a great fit for you , it’s very light and 60 Nm motor 140mm and 160mm front and about 22kg , it’s amazing but the spec you usually go for is about £9500 GBP so it’s not cheap but I actually think you would love it 👍🏾
Absolutely perfect, logical assessment of EMTBs. It’s far too easy to pigeonhole things but the reality is EMTBs could fit into most riders’ lives if they aren’t too closed-minded to admit it. Of course, there are some non-MTB people who have jumped onto EMTBs and charge around the trails like absolute wankers, but let’s be honest, there are plenty of normal bikers that ride like that on the descents! 🤷🏼♂️😂 Keep up the good work 👍🏻 P.S. I am similar height to you and I would 100% be going for a small on the Shuttle SL - I want a short travel trail bike (E powered or not) to be sharp and more agile and at 5’8 you and I are right at the low end of a medium but top end of a small.
I'm 5'7" and went for a Small. Pivot's sizing gets wonky, from Small to Medium is often a huge jump with a smaller jump to a Large. The Shuttle SL in Small is similar in seating position to a Medium in most bikes. And I ride this bike mostly in tight, not too steep trails so the Reach is fine.
@@brianwilliams2907 exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for that 👍🏻 Some brands really seem odd with their sizing. At 5’8 I’d expect to be medium but Pivot, Canyon, Mondraker etc recommend a small. I know some see it as a vanilla choice but I honestly think Specialized have absolutely nailed sizing.
First, I think you are complete correct. I tend to thing people/riders who are kind, responsible and aware on regular bikes will also be on e bikes. The same is said for those who are rude, thoughtless and unaware... Second, I had a size small Firebird last season with similar geo numbers and it was a bit cramped... tough to say...
@@mtbyumyum Absolutely. There are all kinds of people in all walks of life. Regarding the sizing, rightly or wrongly, my thought process on Pivot/Mondraker sizing is that as we are right on the upper/lower limit of Small or Medium, respectively, I would size down for a short travel trail bike (Shuttle SL, Trail 429) where you can accentuate and use the short, snappy nature but maybe size up for a Firebird, Shuttle LT as you/re probably buying those to bomb down steeper stuff where the stability might be more important than being nimble etc. but Pivot’s Firebird sizing doesn’t really support that… 🤷🏼♂️ These things are all very personal to rider build, terrain and preference though I guess. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts if you could swing a leg over a small SL. Thanks for these videos by the way, having someone actually try these bikes out properly (you rarely get proper demos in the UK) is so helpful.
My friend If you wanna E MTB bike, that’s going to live up to your expectations you’re gonna have to get the most expensive best equipped no expense spared ones on the market
Interested in if you decide to go to your standby Enve setup or keep it as is. I'm guessing the weight isn't as much a factor now. Also noticed in the video it's quieter than other e-bikes, don't really hear that distinctive whirl while spinning the pedals.
Yeah, I touched on the quietness of this bike in the video... it's far less whiny compared to other ebikes I've been around. I'm sort of over the enve stuff to be honest... too much money
Ebikes should always yield to descending bikes. Around here - Ebikers are clogging up the downhill route by climbing them. Regular bikes would be too hard to go that way (no motor). So regular bikes take the regular routes of climb the mild climbs and bomb down the fun fast sections, it's a natural human powered route. Here come the ebikes now climbing up the gnarly tech downhill sections asking for right of way. Thus ruinging the downhill fun for the normal bikes that "earned" the descent.
Yeah, it's tough on some of these newer pivot bikes.... I went with a size small Firebird and it was a bit cramped on the climbs but good everywhere else... that said, I wouldn't have gone with a medium on the Firebird and I'm unsure about this Shuttle SL... feels really long and just overall big.
So when you say a very “different experience” on that trail you’ve ridden 100s of times…pretty sure that “different experience” is what most of us would describe as whats that word???………oh yeah FUN. Wait I think you did say it, “so freaking fun”. Welcome to the wonderfully bright dark side🤪
From my experience, riding in gentle breeze mode, its pretty hard to run down the battery. I've had it down to one bar a couple times on really long 4 to 5 hour rides. By the time you run the battery down you've had a really great workout and you're likely run down too. I've never tried to run the batter down on the higher power modes. The only time those modes are practical for climbing IMO is when the trail is bikes only/directional or if you are a non lift served bike park and you have to climb back up the hill to do a run. The bike is awesome on the double blue trails at bike parks by the way!
I think this is the SL EMTB for me, but why is it so expensive. It’s $2k more than competitors Rise & Exe for example. When are we likely to see some deals? Also SRAM instead of Shimano?
Yeah, I'm switching out the XTR drivetrain now for Sram Transmission.... Also, call Chris at Salt Cycles... he's always happy to help viewers of MTB yumyum TH-cam channel and can help you custom build your dream E bike! Doesn't hurt to call and just have a conversation with him... he's a great guy! 801-943-8502
Zero mtb specific trails that allow e-bikes in a three hour radius from my place here in western Colorado. I’d love one, but all I’d be able to ride would be Moto trails. I have a Moto for that. Colorado, although sells the crap out of e-bikes has almost no mtb trails to ride them on. It’s a bummer
Francis Cebedo just timed a Bosch CX Race motor up a road climb in the max setting and with him applying 200 watts measured through his power pedals and he averaged 12.7mph. His mph up the same climb and same conditions with the Fazua 60 equipped Relay was 8.4mph. In short, you were not going even close to 20mph uphill and likely were not even going half that. On my technical steep climbs I went from averaging about 3mph up to about 4.5mph up on my own Relay. Not, enough speed difference to make any safety difference.
I liked the vid but no need to justify who its for. If someone wants one, thats enough reason. People need to stop assuming their idea of “mountain biking” applies to everyone.
I've had a few people point this out... I really wasn't justifying a reason to own an ebike... just pointing out why someone might consider purchasing one. I think a lot of people who have never ridden an ebike might have a misconception of what they are, how they work and why they might consider one.
I am a very fit 36 year old and MUCH prefer E biking to analog bikes in every scenario and every day. Park days I like a heavy DH bike and an E bike rides more similar to that. Also, downhill mountain biking is just more fun than sloggin uphill. life is short, do what you love while you can.
Fitness or activity level have nothing to do with the decision to buy an ebike. For 9/10 ebike owners Ive talked to it’s entirely about getting the most for the time you have to spend riding. Doesn’t matter if I enjoy a climb and want to get that sort of exercise - that’s going to burn a LOT of time and a LOT of energy resources. That time and energy burns through a lot of what I have to spend. It usually means I get one up and down, whereas with the ebike I can get a couple or more laps in for the same time and energy. THAT is the motivator. I only have so much time and energy and want to get in more fun. Then there’s the other 1/10 ebike riders who have had injuries, have a limitation, are aging and not as strong as they used to be. Even the younger guys say same - get in more laps, have more fun for the time they have. I have encountered innumerable ebikers on all kinds of trails when I’m pedaling my acoustic bike and not once has there been anything different about how they ride or what their ebike is doing on the trails beyond faster climb. That’s the ONLY difference. They climb faster. So what???? It would be great if everyone would get over that and be honest about the “impact” of ebikes to trails or other riders. The truth is that there is zero impact. Nothing negative. Nothing for anyone to accept other than seeing someone having more fun because they get in more laps.
Thanks for your comment. So, there is a lot here. First, for me there is a big difference in the way the ebike rides... I think maybe it's because I'm sort of a smaller guy at 5'8" 145 lbs and the bike just has a larger presence in the overall experience. I would also say of the people I see out on my trails on e bikes I would say maybe half look like newbs and not real comfortable on the trail or the bike and are not overly fit.... just and observation. That said, many of the very serious riders I know also have e bikes for the very reason you mentioned... more riding in less time. In any case, e bikes are not a negative thing in the area's I ride... I really don't hear anyone really complain about it although I know it has been a hot topic here on the internet.
I honestly thing the problems surrounding e bikes are mostly on the internet... I see e bikes basically ever day I ride for the past 3 seasons and I don't see any problems with other riders or any issues at all... as long as everyone is being responsible, it's a non issue.
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Love my lab austere. Been using it at work because of how easy it is to holster water bottles
Rode my first ebike a few days ago in the hills around Lake Tahoe. I was on a family vacation and didn’t want to be gone for the usual 5-7 hour ride. In the big picture IMHO… it’s about TIME! We’re only given so much and whatever gets in your way.. work,family,illness recovery or age, our ability/time to do things is reduced bit by bit. The ebike will allow me to still have the time to see the things I love being out on the trails in less time and get back to other things that are just as important to me. I honestly don’t think my climbing muscles will stay as strong because I’m not pushing as hard but the smiles will be just as strong. At 74 my doc tells me I’m more fit than many 40-50 year olds and ask what’s my ‘secret’…. Only one… KEEP MOVING!!! Ordering my ebike today!!! Cheers.
Wow, this is amazing! 74 yrs old and still riding like a beast! Love it! Call Chris at Salt Cycles for special pricing and custom built bikes like no other bike shop can. 801-943-8502 Thanks for the support!
Great video, Jason.
E-bike is a life changer for me and it got me back into mtb after 15 years not riding and gained from 170lbs to 225lbs and diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.
I tried to get back into mtb but it was so hard. I was dying on a trail I used to ride as a warmup.
I bought a hybrid e-bike to commute to work and gradually started lose weight. Dropped back down to 170 within a year. I started riding with highest assist and gradually lower the a assist. Once the low assist got easier, I started analog road biking with my friends and gotten stronger doing endurance ride them. Then I took my old XC Santa Cruz Superlight out the trail I was dying, but this time I am riding it like I was 15 years ago. I still use my e-bike to commute to work and on the weekends, I do mtb on Saturday and road riding on Sunday. I went from type2 diabetes to pre-diabetic. Never thought I'd be riding again at 51 years old, but to be able to mtb on an analog bike with your own power is liberating. I even bought a Pivot 429 trail earlier this year. My Santa Cruz Superlight is sitting in my shed collecting dust. I didn't want to get a MTB ebike because there are certain parks in my area don't allow e-bike. But when I bomb down the mountain I feel like I earned it.
What a story! Wow!! Thank you for sharing and good for you! Love this stuff!
I’m 70 and purchased the X01 SL a month ago and absolutely love it. It’s like I’m 15 years younger. I ride mainly in eco because the trails I ride (powder mtn snow basin etc) that’s really all I need. But my SB115 still gets ridden. Just a different riding experience. Great video!
Thats awesome! I like how you roll.
❤️❤️❤️ I love this comment! Thank you!
E bikes are for anyone who wants to have a blast riding bikes! PERIOD!
💯🤘
Exactly. There really is no need to say more. They are here to stay. Same etiquette as analog bikes. Not many people climbing at 20mph that I've seen here in So. Cal. They are lifesavers for many of us!
Totally agree, there's no real reason to say more... other than that would be a very short video haha
@jayefyve9212 EXACTLY. Ive been ebiking for a while and have literally never seen anyone climb at 15mph let alone 20. Also, no need to say who its for.
For old cyclist 😅
Jason, this is the best MTB video I have seen! I’ve been riding more than 30 years and thinking about these light e-MTB’s. When I was your age I could ride your route. Today I can do it but it is very tough. You hit all points right on. Great job. I need one of these now!
Wow, thanks! Glad you liked it! Call Chris at Salt Cycles 801-943-8502 he always takes excellent care of viewers of the channel.
So glad you put this review up, so nice. I’m 71 and riding a Specialized Levo SL. Love it.
Awesome! Thank I’m looking forward to riding the Levo SL
I can relate to getting your Dad out on one of the ebikes. I lost my Dad 3 yrs ago and there is nothing I wouldn't give to spend another day with him. Enjoy your Dad while you can!! Hope he can hit the trails with you soon.
Great advice, thank you!
Amen, 100% spot on
Personally, I’ve never ridden an e-bike, but I’d own one in a heartbeat. As a MTB community we really need to get over the e-bike stigma.
Stop caring what other people think. You don’t need to explain or justify why you ride an e-bike.
Thanks for testing the waters with your review, Yum Yum. I look forward to seeing more e-bike content.
Thanks!
Even though I'm not at the point I needed an e-mtb, with at least half of my friends riding them now, I decided to take advantage of Specialized's big sale. I knew climbing would be easier, but what I didn't expect is that it would make the fun even more fun. I find that I want to ride more often and for much longer. I still train on my old bikes to participate in cycling events, but when I'm just looking to have fun, the first bike I grab is the e-mtb.
Glad to see you showing some love to e bikes.
I own 2 e-bikes and 2 analog bikes.
Love them all for different reasons.
I’m 53…pretty solid rider, but nowadays…I don’t want to suffer as much as I used to..just wanna ride and have fun. Other days I enjoy suffering a bit more. Still enjoy my regular pedal bikes.
I really think more people should give them a chance B4 hating on them.
Keep riding 🤙🏽
Thanks for sharing!
I've had a Fuel EXe for about 6 months. Before that I've had a few Ripmo's, a Mojo 4, a couple of Evils, Santa Cruz, etc. The EXe is the most fun out of all of them. I thought I would ride both pedal and e, but I doubt I'll go back to a regular pedal bike. And... Lab Austere Hip Pack is the best pack!
Thanks for weighing in... would love to get a ride on the Trek.... and thanks for the feedback on the Lab Austere hip pack. I love mine!
Ebikes are for the pussified society we live in. My father is 85 years old and still rides north of 250 miles a week on the road. I plan to do the same under my own power.
I really think it's just a different experience altogether
Ebikes are rad!
I have watched a lot of your videos and never seen the dirt looking so perfect. I love having an ebike and a normal bike as a combo, for all the reasons you mentioned. Its also opened up new trails that were miserable hike a bikes before but are now a tech climbing challenge. more variety is more better 🙂
100% there are a lot of great trails near slc utah but they have absolutely miserable climbs.... the e machine is a game changer for that and recovery days. Thanks for your comment and yes, the dirt was total hero dirt on this morning!! yumyum!!
Now thats how a proper e-bike review is done. That downhill run looks cool af
haha thanks! Actual review coming soon!
I have an Orbea Rise Hydro. Bought it to recover and ride with a knee injury. Now I ride on recovery day as well. For the $ its still a great machine! I often ride it with the motor off when riding with my analog riding group......
Nice!
Best part of that review was you talking about dad! Ebikes are a blast! When I can afford to own a 2nd bike,, I'll get one. I gave the ebike a very solid try and still prefer a standard pedal bike.
I agree, I totally prefer the ride and feel of a standard bike. Thanks! I was unsure how many people would actually make it through the entire video... I edited out some of the stuff I said about my Dad..... we used to go early season hike skiing and build jumps before the actual ski season lifts opened. I did my first back flip off a jump my Dad and I built together when I was 12 years old. And dozens more memories with my Dad... would love to ride with him!
Thanks for the e-bike content. Look forward to more. It’s all about using good trail etiquette and respect. No matter what you ride! Love the point about getting your dad out there. Also keeps people with certain medical conditions active. Thanks Jason
Thank you!
I wouldn’t ride one personally but I do ride with guys that use them, gets them out with faster riders and gives me a workout ❤
+50yrs here, no e-bike...BUT, a buddy of mine had a heart attack and got an eMTB. He rides the trails now twice as far before work as i can in the same amount of time. He still gets a workout, watt and calorie wise, just gets to go further in a shorter amount of time. It does get me to thinking...
Yep… very interesting isn’t it!!
Yea, the problem is very few of us really have the discipline to suffer when you have a button at your fingertips to make it easier. Not saying you still don't get a workout but it's not the same. A friend of mine said the same, he'll just ride the 50lb bike in ECO mode and get the same workout. Well he never does and now he's complaining he's out of shape and regrets selling his SB140 and now shopping for a new pedal bike to supplement the E-bike.
@@JoeS97756yep,.. The acoustic bike has me at low body fat while still being able to enjoy post ride beers..That's huge! 😂
Welcome to the Party Jason. We’ve been waiting.👍😉 What you experienced at the top of Rush about finding flow everywhere is what Bosch initially coined “Uphill Flow”. Ebikes are just fun! Welcome to the dark side.😁🤘
Wow, yeah, uphill flow.... totally get it. Yeah, the first 3rd of Rush is very pedaly on an analog bike.... the e machine was magic there and turned an otherwise meh trail into money!!
I watch your Ripmo videos many times before I buy. Still in love with it.
But I am about to have my first ride on E-bike today, and I see your video pop out. lol
That’s awesome! Call Chris at Salt Cycles and connect with him on the ebike. He knows a ton about them and can help you out! 801-943-8502
I have been an e-bike advocate for years. As long as they are allowed on those particular trails enjoy. My wife was able to ride until 8.5 months pregnant on her E-MtB, and after her knee injury and surgeries. I ride an SL sometimes and love the thing. Whatever you ride have good etiquette and make sure it’s legal for those trails, especially if there are equestrians on them lol.
Well said!
What do you mean, mane sure to only ride on trails where motors are allowed?
I ride mine anywhere and everywhere because having the motor makes no difference to anyone in any way, other than the amount of enjoyment i have, and the amount of distance i cover.
@@HarryKulohI guess I just prefer to respect the land managers rules particularly if it’s privately owned areas. If you don’t have a disability and e-bikes are not allowed then why ride there, and not ride somewhere else? Some trail systems are pretty dangerous to have e-bikes coming up the hill at 15mph, especially when people aren’t expecting it. Also riding e-bikes where they aren’t allowed can cause problems for regular Mtb’s if you get caught.
I love my EMTB. Full sized Kenevo Expert with a dual crown. I’m fit but instead of doing a 11 mile 2 hour ride with 2k vert I do a 20 mile 4K vert ride after work. So much more descending and still getting great workout in. All about the full size tho. Love the range and power. I’d only look at an SL if I could only have one bike.
Thanks for sharing!
The problem isn't people riding ebikes. The problem is people who haven't tried them. I've listen to some people thinking they are like a 250 cc motorcycle that looks like a mtb. Ebikes should go where ever mtb's go, like all of europe does.
I wonder why there are signs at every trailhead that say NO E BIKES
?
@Hoops176 funny a park ranger asked a hiker what they thought of ebikes.she totally went off how unsafe and terrible they are. The park ranger was standing over an ebike. People who don't have them, feel they should make the decision against them.
That "clunk" during shifts is normal even with SRAM, you have to slightly ease up on pedal pressure for a second and you can really minimize the clunk. Once you get used to it its no big deal.
Cool. Yeah, I figured that was the case but I just mentioned it because it's far more noticeable on the ebike than on the standard pedal bike.
Thanks for this video speaking as someone who has been on the fence for an e-bike. You cover a lot of the considerations including the benefit of just riding TO the trail on road that isn’t usually mentioned. You have convinced me it’s time to sell my n+1 analog for an e-bike!!
haha well glad I could help! Enjoy! I should also mention, I much prefer the way and analog bike rides...
I’ve owned a full power 53lb Ebike (YT Decoy), then Went to a 42lb Mid Powered Ebike (Orbea Rise), then went the other way to a 57lb Pole Voima, and now back on a 38.5lb Specialized Levo SL. I have decided light weight is the way to go.
Wow, okay! You would know. Thanks for your comment. I've been switching between the Yeti and this Shuttle SL. The lighter weight bike is very nice!
I am so happy you did not say "acoustic bike". lol Pedal bike, traditional bike all acceptable terms. Great review Jason!
haha I've been corrected enough times now.... I guess the acceptable term for pedal bike (traditional/regular bike) is analog bike.... what do I know lol
@@mtbyumyum Well I used your code and bought a hip pack today! So you did well and with the 2020 Ripley I bought on your recommendation.. As an acoustic guitarist, just the term acoustic (referring to properties of sound) seems out of place like a penguin in the Sahara. the bike industry comes up with some wild adjectives.
Those trails 😍. That’s it, I’m moving to Draper.
haha yep, they're really fun!
First E-bike review nice! Would love a comparison to Levo SL Gen2 next, its basically a Stumpy Evo, love mine. Coming from a Switchblade which I love not sure if I will ride it much anymore though here in FL Levo too much fun, having fun up hill is amazing.
Yep. Looking forward to trying the new Levo SL
Was a hater until I rode a Transition Relay, now I want one. The Relay would be perfect for Jacob's!
Good to hear!
I own that bike and i absolutely LOVE IT
🤘
You on the SL and your dad on a full power would be the way to go!
Yep, that would be rad!
I'm in my mid 60s. Riding since the days of Gary Fisher. The SL emtb are on my radar. I've got both analog - Revel and emtb -Specialized. I've got a bad hip and even though I pedal the bike with the motor off much of the time, I'm thinking I could go with just one bike that will be easier on my hip without assistance, and there for when I need it to take some of the pressure off. I never use the motor to go faster.... Just to take some load on the steeper or longer sections. I usually only burn 5 percent of the battery an hour. Never come close to needing it's 700 Wh
It's funny, the heavier bike does some things better due to its inertia. At 40lbs with a motor could be the best compromise
I ride full powered e bikes rode allsorts. Recently rode an SL levo was way above what i thought it be like, more than enough power, really low weight and if i end up buying another e bike it be lightweight as i felt more satisfied off riding it than i do been on a full powered e bike
I love this comment. This is exactly what I think e bikes are made for. Not to blast 1000 miles an hour up the hill. Just sime assistance to get you through your ride or to keep up with other people who are maybe more fit. Blasting up the trail at 19 mph is difficult for other users on the trail to deal with. I like the idea of just using assistance as needed to get you where you need to go. Also this SL size E bike is easier to manage than the big ones and is plenty of power.
Fox has e-tuned or e-optimized, one is only slightly modified from a regular fox fork and the other has more changes. I think the e-forks also have different pressure charts since on them since the bike+rider weight is significantly higher.
Interesting. Thanks. I’ll dig deeper into this and see what suspension this bike has. Thx!
E-forks are supposed to be a softer tune.
Enjoyed hearing your real time first impressions. I can see one of these in your future..(or present)
Yeah, thanks. I'd like to do more of these "first look" "first impression" videos... they just feel better and more raw.
Thanks for touching on e bike / trail etiquette. As a die hard analog guy, there’s really cool people on eBikes…but there are a some that really aren’t. Hopefully in time the etiquette on trails will improve.
I think it also applies to analog riders. Some very cool and courteous riders and there's always a few that aren't. I think there's a 'strava' effect that causes more potential danger on the trails than ebikes! I've had 3 head on accidents (while going uphill on analog) with guys screaming downhill into blind curves. I have 4 bikes. One E and 3 analog. Ride and enjoy them all (in a courteous and respectful manner)
@@SteveCaughlin 100% respect that opinion. Strava effect is real. I used to ride with a Garmin on my bar to try and hit certain segments. I've learned that it wasn't fun anymore...and just ride with Strava running on my phone in my bag, out of site. I still think that ebike rider etiquette is the bigger issue though - especially new to biking riders.
Thanks for weighing in on this guys. I agree that I see more "new" riders or "unexperienced" riders on ebikes these days... not a bad thing just more likely to be unaware of certain things including etiquette... That said, a mean or unkind person is as they are regardless up what bike they ride. The ebike might exacerbate their poor behavior or attitude given the extra performance of the bike but it's still the rider in need of the attitude adjustment to correct the problem.
I was lucky enough to find a Shuttle SL in the early spring of this year, long before the trails were ride-able in northern Utah.
Previous bike was a Trail 429 but I got way out of shape over the long miserable depressing winter we had, and the doc warned better be careful getting my legs back with my age(55) and family history.
I have ridden the wheels of the Shuttle SL in gentle breeze mode, and found that it is absolutely perfect for 3 to 4 hour low intensity sustained state workouts.
You mentioned that its kind of like a long road ride and that's exactly how I feel about it.
Roadies are crazy fit, and their secret is just lots of saddle time. That's exactly what the Shuttle SL allows.
Though I can climb a bit faster with gentle breeze assist its definitely not so fast that its a danger at all to other trail users. This hasn't been the slightest issue.
I've ridden twice in river and rocket assist levels. Both times were to get out of heavy thunderstorms in a hurry. And yes... the bike does absolutely fly if you need it too.
In terms of fitness its been an absolute game changer. So much more saddle time. I've lost 30 pounds over the summer and I am stronger now on my "analog" bikes then I have been in decades.
I currently trade off between the Shuttle SL and a gravel bike which I actually run on the singletrack. So the haters scoff when I'm on the e-assist bike, and then they think I'm bad ass
when they see me crushing it on the same trails on the gravel bike. Its all very confusing for the haters ROFL.
One interesting thing about the Shuttle SL is that it actually peddles just fine without e-assist turned on at all. Though obviously much heavier it climbs just like the Trail 429... comfortably and efficiently.
So if you start to feel like a more intense workout after your warm up you can just turn off assist and suffer to your heart's content.
I'm looking forward to your full review. I wonder if you'll notice the one thing on the Shuttle SL that absolutely sucks. I won't give it away, but I hear/hope they're working on a recall.
Wow! What a story. Thank you for sharing! I love hearing stuff like this. I'm unaware of any recalls on this bike but one thing I wish was different is the battery display... I wish it was an actual % of battery life and not just 5 glowing colored lights. I wish I new I was at 60% or 41% and not 3 glowing lights on the top tube.
@mtbyumyum there is a way to know the exact battery percentage and not a 20% range. Needs to be paired to a smart watch. I have my Shuttle SL connected to my garmin. Works perfectly. 👍
Interesting. I'll look into this! Thanks!
@@mtbyumyum The thing that I found lacking is actually the controller. The controller on my bike is truly terrible. Its a cheap piece of plastic and it has seized up on me twice when exposed to dust or mud. A blast of compressed air got the dust/mud out and its working fine again but that didn't help out on the trail.
However I noticed on the Fazua website that they have released version 2 of the controller, and it looks far better. Looks like a very easy update too - just plug and play.
I'll check in with my bike shop and report how things go.
Great vid and interesting listening to your thoughts bc you and I are in about the same place in our emtb journey, although I night be slightly ahead of you in figuring some of this e stuff out. Lol. Im 51 and decided it was emtb time over the 4th when I was on an mtb/camping trip where I was camping and riding a different location each day up in the mountains. So we’re talking big climbs, rocky gnar, and big downs, the kind that are as exhausting as climbing. By day 3 I was already fatigued when I woke up. Even the first two days I wanted to ride more each day, but I just didn’t physically have anymore climbs in me, and the downs were getting dangerous as the fatigue was building and the skills were deteriorating. That’s when I made the decision to get an emtb. Not getting rid of my Bronson, and not planning on using the emtb for my local stuff, but rather trips like I had over the 4th, big mountain climbing days to access out of reach trails, riding shuttle places alone when I dont have someone to ride with and shuttle, and hitting and trying to clean just some janky stuff that is unrideable on analog bikes.
At first I thought I wanted a lightweight emtb- something like my Bronson but with a motor. Just enough motor to allow me to get more runs in. But then I demoed a SC Heckler and a Specialized Levo at a fest in some WV gnar. Both were full power emtbs. And what I realized is that emtbing with them is a different experience altogether. The weight is actually beneficial in gnar with the right sus and a motor to allow you to overcome it. And re sus, and components in general, for the type of riding I want to do you can just go big and burly and not worry about adding a few lbs bc you have the motor. So go 38, DD tires (maybe cushcore too), 220 rotors etc. I killed the rear tire on the Spec on my demo ride, and can totally see me doing that and to a lot of other lighter component parts also on emtbs given how I want to use it (plus at 205-210 lbs Im not the lightest rider in the world).
I just rode an Ibis Oso in a parking lot when I dropped off my bike for service and wow, was blown away. It’s full power but actually not that much heavier than a similarly spec’d lightweight bike and pretty lively. A Large Oso weighs 53 lbs but that is with all the big burly stuff, including DD tires. For comparison, a Transition Relay at the same price point (8K) alloy GX (cable) PNW version weighs 50 lbs medium. The new SC Heckler SL, which I suspect will ride like my Bronson but with a motor, in Medium and with the S build with cable GX wieghs 43 lbs. BUT, compare the specs- EXO front and EXO + rear, smaller rear rotor, 36 up front. Start adding similar components spec and the weight difference becomes a lot less.
And then there is the difference in motor power between the Fazua (the Pivot SL, Heckler SL, Relay) and the TQ (Trek exe) and a full power motor. Watch Jeff Kendall Reed’s vid for the difference when you really start tackling emtb climbs which I’ll link. The lighter bikes with less powerful motor’s don’t have enough power for some the emtb stuff one might want to try to clean. Now add on a heavier rider like myself.
So now Im leaning more full power emtb bc I think it suits how I want to use it more. I think for riders looking to ride kind of the same trails they do with their analog bikes but be able to squeeze in rides in shorter times, or people who maybe don’t have the fitness or arenolder and want to ride less steep and gnarly trails and more machine groomed flow stuff, emtbs with lighter component spec can be a good solution. For what I am looking for though I think maybe full power with the burliest build might be better.
And re fitness, one thing I realized on the full power is that if I wanted a more analog bike workout, just ride it in eco mode. In fact I really liked eco mode and found it was plenty for riding the trail, then I would kick it up when I hit an emtb feature. Of course the higher modes were also a blast to go into to just hammer a trail- take a trail you might ride at like 9 mph on an analog and hit it at like 18 mph on the emtb. A totally different experience. I think one can get better at high speed stuff too bc you can ride at DH type speeds on non-DH trails. So your reaction times and skills have to sharpen for that.
The other thing to think about with emtbs that is huge for me is whether you can charge the battery off bike or not. If all of your charging will be done in your garage, then a non removable battery is not a big deal. But if you are traveling, what a pain in the butt to have to bring your bike in a hotel every day or take it to an electric outlet at the campground (if there even is one which isnt the case if you are boondocking). And if removable you can charge the battery in your car or truck while driving. I keep my mtb in the bed of my Gladiator with an Alucab cap on it. With a removable battery I leave the bike and just pop out the battery to charge wherever. Also with a removable battery you can fly with your emtb and just ship the battery to your destination. You cannot fly with an emtb without a removable battery. And lastly I think it would be nice for versatility sake to be able to ride without the battery. Not that I’d be doing it much, but having the structural integrity to do so would be nice, say if battery dies or other issue with power while on trail, or if at lift assist DH park on a trip that doesnt allow emtbs on the lift etc. I hate renting bikes- I spend 80% of my day getting the bike dialed and used to it and just as I do my day is pretty much over.
So those are my thoughts. I’ll link Jeff’s vid and my vid of hammering a Heckler in a ricky pedal trail.
Cheers and have fun. 🤙
Very enjoyable vid , Jason . Looking fwd to the review .
Thank you!
These days at the end of my ride back to my car and feeling tired. I go man I wish I had an e bike.
do it!!
The real underrated feature of an e-bike is the ability for the Specialized Mastermind system to set a target heart rate and have the power assist adjust to maintain that heart rate. It's an absolute game changer. Do other manufacturers offer that option?
Whoa! Is this really a thing? Is it unique to specialized? That sounds amazing.
@@mtbyumyum it's been a total game changer for me. I can ride with absolutely anyone of my friends whether they're in pedal bikes or SL's or full powered E Bikes. The Spesh will adjust output of the motor to your heart rate. I set mine to about 155 and the assist will keep me in the 145-160 range. It's pretty great. I'm trying to figure out if this is just a Spesh thing or maybe Bosch has it too?
Wow, I feel so old. I just ride bikes for fun and can tell when I'm getting a workout or not, paying attention to how my body feels. Dont they have apps for that anyways?
@ryuMoto that is srly amazing!! Would love to try that out!
You said, "I just ride bikes for fun and can tell when I'm getting a workout or not, paying attention to how my body feels" Well for me, and many others, using a heart rate monitor makes riding even more fun! Seeing in real time how your body responds to effort is really neat. You can also govern your effort so as to not "over do it" although it's more often used as a training tool to optimize your time in training. Burn out is a real thing for endurance athletes and knowing when your body needs a break is pretty important. Heart rate monitors help a lot here. I could go on but I'll spare you haha
Good on sight review. Not convinced to switch to electric, yet.
It is making bike too complex and too expensive too;) totally get it that e-power make your ride faster and this can open sport to some riders. This tech needs lighter, longer lasting battery and this will be a huge change.
Anyway your video makes me want to ride 😀
Yeah, great point. I've thought a lot about these ebikes and really thing as time goes on they're really nail down the tech and start seeing even lighter weight batteries... very interesting
Everyone talks about more mileage for a given effort. To me, that means accelerated wear on trails and features. This is the rule no matter the activity. Increased ease of access = increased wear and deterioration of the natural environment. This means trail management budgets need to increase proportionally to the increased traffic. I've seen this throughout Utah as National and State Parks have struggled to keep up with increased foot traffic, not always from those who know how to respect the trails. Not trying to be a downer, I just hope as a community we adequately help support local trail organizations and exercise good etiquette no matter what type of bike we ride.
Good comment. Not a downer… very thoughtful and worth giving some thought too. Thx!
Very good points. Heavier bikes, more mileage will cause more erosion over time.
My favorite part of this video is when you were going to explain what’s different with the E tuned fox fork and then said “ I don’t know what it has man” 😂
If I had the budget for a second bike I’d love one of these. Don’t think they are allowed in park city anyway though.
haha yeah, don't really know anything about e machines lol
@@mtbyumyum I’m afraid to try one…I know I’ll like it too much and then 💸
Nice video again ! Wait till you try the Relay
Would love to try one!
I purchased my '17 429 trail with advice from your review, and still enjoying it. Sure would love the SL, but I can't get past the price! Not to mention the depreciation value in just a few years. Just ridiculous how expensive this sport has become, and the ever changing technology that makes a 4 or 5 yr old bike obsolete.
Yeah, bike prices are a bit ridiculous these days...
I don't think you need a reason or excuse to own an e bike other than If you want one to have fun is all you need.
bingo!
That loose right hander at the bottom of Jacob's is definitely more exciting this year. Can't really commit until the end where the rut is. Seems like I almost crash each time. Also, the lip may be trashed, but there is just enough with a couple of pedals to send you to the transition😛
Haha yeah, and I’m still sorting out the suspension on the e bike so everything still feels a bit “off”
@@mtbyumyum I'm sure it feels a lot different at that weight compared to those lightweight rockets you're used to riding. 😉
completely different. setting the suspension on this ebike is difficult
Man that bike would look sweet on the back of my Cement colored Tacoma!
haha do it!
Which dishwasher or dryer you should buy. 😂 Love it!
haha
Good stuff Jason ! I’m looking at that new Heckler SL as well !
I'd be interested to try one for sure
First ebike review ?!?!? Keep em coming
haha thanks!
Only thing I'm worried about if i bought an Ebike would be that. I would never grab my regular bike again! An lose all my Torque/ Beastness that took soo many years to build. 🎉
You can ride the SL with the motor off and it's just a 40lb enduro bike. You can also tune them. I've pedaled my 52lb levo up after it died. Wasn't terrible but it's a heavy bike. The SL like the Transition are built with that in mind.
It’s a personal mindset choice that I faced (currently face?). I had an analog crash that kept me off bikes for two years and as a celebration I added an EMTB to the stable. I’m usually feeling guilty about losing fitness, so I actually ride the analogs more. I enjoy the sense of fitness accomplishment where with the E I’m definitely prone to cheat on sweating. However, we all have days where we are too tired for a ride or too short of available time, and that, for me, is when the E is so, so much fun. Basically, when I’m just looking for fun, with just a little sweat, I’ll grab the E.
I completely understand where you’re coming from but honestly, there’s no way I would keep grabbing this E bike over my other bikes. It’s just such a different experience. I still prefer the regular bike and experience.
I think the new Orbea Rise would be a great fit for you , it’s very light and 60 Nm motor 140mm and 160mm front and about 22kg , it’s amazing but the spec you usually go for is about £9500 GBP so it’s not cheap but I actually think you would love it 👍🏾
Totally agree I have one and it’s fantastic.
God I want one. Ideally a 140-150 29er with the fazua, hopefully SC makes a 29 version
Isn't that what the Heckler is?
@@mtbyumyum Heckler is a 150MM mullet
ah, I see... thanks!
Absolutely perfect, logical assessment of EMTBs.
It’s far too easy to pigeonhole things but the reality is EMTBs could fit into most riders’ lives if they aren’t too closed-minded to admit it.
Of course, there are some non-MTB people who have jumped onto EMTBs and charge around the trails like absolute wankers, but let’s be honest, there are plenty of normal bikers that ride like that on the descents! 🤷🏼♂️😂
Keep up the good work 👍🏻
P.S. I am similar height to you and I would 100% be going for a small on the Shuttle SL - I want a short travel trail bike (E powered or not) to be sharp and more agile and at 5’8 you and I are right at the low end of a medium but top end of a small.
I'm 5'7" and went for a Small. Pivot's sizing gets wonky, from Small to Medium is often a huge jump with a smaller jump to a Large. The Shuttle SL in Small is similar in seating position to a Medium in most bikes. And I ride this bike mostly in tight, not too steep trails so the Reach is fine.
@@brianwilliams2907 exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for that 👍🏻
Some brands really seem odd with their sizing. At 5’8 I’d expect to be medium but Pivot, Canyon, Mondraker etc recommend a small.
I know some see it as a vanilla choice but I honestly think Specialized have absolutely nailed sizing.
First, I think you are complete correct. I tend to thing people/riders who are kind, responsible and aware on regular bikes will also be on e bikes. The same is said for those who are rude, thoughtless and unaware...
Second, I had a size small Firebird last season with similar geo numbers and it was a bit cramped... tough to say...
@@mtbyumyum Absolutely. There are all kinds of people in all walks of life.
Regarding the sizing, rightly or wrongly, my thought process on Pivot/Mondraker sizing is that as we are right on the upper/lower limit of Small or Medium, respectively, I would size down for a short travel trail bike (Shuttle SL, Trail 429) where you can accentuate and use the short, snappy nature but maybe size up for a Firebird, Shuttle LT as you/re probably buying those to bomb down steeper stuff where the stability might be more important than being nimble etc. but Pivot’s Firebird sizing doesn’t really support that… 🤷🏼♂️ These things are all very personal to rider build, terrain and preference though I guess. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts if you could swing a leg over a small SL.
Thanks for these videos by the way, having someone actually try these bikes out properly (you rarely get proper demos in the UK) is so helpful.
My friend If you wanna
E MTB bike, that’s going to live up to your expectations you’re gonna have to get the most expensive best equipped no expense spared ones on the market
off topic question: Have you ever ridden the White Rim Trail in Canyonlands? If so, what tires did you run? Any other set up tips? Thanks!
Have you had the chance to try a size small? If so how does it compare?
I don't always watch MTB content but when I do, its not about e-bikes :)
haha!!
@@mtbyumyum OK I made an exception to my rule. Great video, appreciated the perspective. Have a great day/week :).
Interested in if you decide to go to your standby Enve setup or keep it as is. I'm guessing the weight isn't as much a factor now. Also noticed in the video it's quieter than other e-bikes, don't really hear that distinctive whirl while spinning the pedals.
Yeah, I touched on the quietness of this bike in the video... it's far less whiny compared to other ebikes I've been around. I'm sort of over the enve stuff to be honest... too much money
Ebikes should always yield to descending bikes. Around here - Ebikers are clogging up the downhill route by climbing them. Regular bikes would be too hard to go that way (no motor). So regular bikes take the regular routes of climb the mild climbs and bomb down the fun fast sections, it's a natural human powered route. Here come the ebikes now climbing up the gnarly tech downhill sections asking for right of way. Thus ruinging the downhill fun for the normal bikes that "earned" the descent.
Let’s see ebike reviews! Specialized Turbo Levo?
I would love to test out that bike for a week or two!
Are your trails open to pedal assist bikes? Here in Colorado USFS is not very accomadating for ebikes.
Wowowow 195 max heart rate for a 41yr old?!?! Im 36 and i consider 189 my max HR.
Yeah. Crazy how different we all are…
@@mtbyumyum mid 60 and run 163 . Can run into the 170s but I know it's probably pushing things so I back off when I see it on my watch
Sounded like you were gonna cream your jeans on rush! 😂😂
Would you size down, size medium seams too long for 5'7"
Yeah, it's tough on some of these newer pivot bikes.... I went with a size small Firebird and it was a bit cramped on the climbs but good everywhere else... that said, I wouldn't have gone with a medium on the Firebird and I'm unsure about this Shuttle SL... feels really long and just overall big.
Where in SoCal are you? Looks like good riding.
Utah🤙
So when you say a very “different experience” on that trail you’ve ridden 100s of times…pretty sure that “different experience” is what most of us would describe as whats that word???………oh yeah FUN. Wait I think you did say it, “so freaking fun”. Welcome to the wonderfully bright dark side🤪
haha yep! This bike really makes any would be pedally sections of down hill trail crazy fun!!
How’s the real life range?
Great vid! Thanks YumYum!
Still figuring that out... maybe 2.5-3 hours on full Rocket (turbo)
From my experience, riding in gentle breeze mode, its pretty hard to run down the battery. I've had it down to one bar a couple times on really long 4 to 5 hour rides.
By the time you run the battery down you've had a really great workout and you're likely run down too.
I've never tried to run the batter down on the higher power modes. The only time those modes are practical for climbing IMO is when the trail is bikes only/directional or if you are a non lift served bike park and you have to climb back up the hill to do a run.
The bike is awesome on the double blue trails at bike parks by the way!
dun dun dun... Loam Wolf names Transition Relay top dog SL e-bike!!!!!!
Joking aside, I would love to try one of these types of emtbs
It would be fun to try that bike out too
I think this is the SL EMTB for me, but why is it so expensive. It’s $2k more than competitors Rise & Exe for example.
When are we likely to see some deals?
Also SRAM instead of Shimano?
Yeah, I'm switching out the XTR drivetrain now for Sram Transmission.... Also, call Chris at Salt Cycles... he's always happy to help viewers of MTB yumyum TH-cam channel and can help you custom build your dream E bike! Doesn't hurt to call and just have a conversation with him... he's a great guy! 801-943-8502
@@mtbyumyum thanks for the recommendation, the only slight issue is that I’m in the UK 🇬🇧.
You’re captivating an international audience now 😉.
haha wow! Cool
Can you cancel the governed speed limit on it? I would love to go 40mph going uphill
Love it Jason but you keep refering to a normal bike as "pedal" bike but they are both pedal bikes. One is jus more fun :).
haha yeah, I just don't have the lingo down... so analog and e bikes????
Where do live ? Looks nice
What time do you guys start work in the U.S?
9:00 AM is sort of the norm but everyone is different....
Neighbor said she is going to go ride Draper, does that refer to Corner Canyon?
yup!
📣 @yumyum, will love to see your review on a current gen Jet 9 RDO.
Noted!
Zero mtb specific trails that allow e-bikes in a three hour radius from my place here in western Colorado. I’d love one, but all I’d be able to ride would be Moto trails. I have a Moto for that. Colorado, although sells the crap out of e-bikes has almost no mtb trails to ride them on. It’s a bummer
Interesting
Francis Cebedo just timed a Bosch CX Race motor up a road climb in the max setting and with him applying 200 watts measured through his power pedals and he averaged 12.7mph.
His mph up the same climb and same conditions with the Fazua 60 equipped Relay was 8.4mph.
In short, you were not going even close to 20mph uphill and likely were not even going half that.
On my technical steep climbs I went from averaging about 3mph up to about 4.5mph up on my own Relay. Not, enough speed difference to make any safety difference.
I just went back and looked at my ride. Avg ascending mph was 12.5 for 2000 feet of vert and 5 miles. www.strava.com/activities/9835046378
I liked the vid but no need to justify who its for. If someone wants one, thats enough reason. People need to stop assuming their idea of “mountain biking” applies to everyone.
I've had a few people point this out... I really wasn't justifying a reason to own an ebike... just pointing out why someone might consider purchasing one. I think a lot of people who have never ridden an ebike might have a misconception of what they are, how they work and why they might consider one.
Zone 2 . What are 80?
I don't understand your question
What are the rules in Utah for the e-bike and trail?
Depends where you are. Corner Canyon (where this video is) allows it. Some trails do not. Trailforks has good info on this for each trail
@@rcktmn helpful, thanks. What is your opinion on e-bikes being allowed on all trails? Do you feel it’s trending that way?
Yeah, probably heading that way... as long as people are thoughtful about what they're doing and aware of their impact on others, I'm good with it
I’m 46 and just bought a mountain bike but I wish I’d bought an ebike instead
Honestly, they're pretty different and I really prefer the feel of the analog bike to the ebike...
I am a very fit 36 year old and MUCH prefer E biking to analog bikes in every scenario and every day. Park days I like a heavy DH bike and an E bike rides more similar to that. Also, downhill mountain biking is just more fun than sloggin uphill. life is short, do what you love while you can.
Yeah, the extra weight of the ebike in some situations is nice for sure.
Only Exo on an ebike. You crazy :)
Haha I like the presence of the mechanical Shimano cables
I mean the exo casing tires @@mtbyumyum
Fitness or activity level have nothing to do with the decision to buy an ebike. For 9/10 ebike owners Ive talked to it’s entirely about getting the most for the time you have to spend riding. Doesn’t matter if I enjoy a climb and want to get that sort of exercise - that’s going to burn a LOT of time and a LOT of energy resources. That time and energy burns through a lot of what I have to spend. It usually means I get one up and down, whereas with the ebike I can get a couple or more laps in for the same time and energy. THAT is the motivator. I only have so much time and energy and want to get in more fun. Then there’s the other 1/10 ebike riders who have had injuries, have a limitation, are aging and not as strong as they used to be. Even the younger guys say same - get in more laps, have more fun for the time they have. I have encountered innumerable ebikers on all kinds of trails when I’m pedaling my acoustic bike and not once has there been anything different about how they ride or what their ebike is doing on the trails beyond faster climb. That’s the ONLY difference. They climb faster. So what???? It would be great if everyone would get over that and be honest about the “impact” of ebikes to trails or other riders. The truth is that there is zero impact. Nothing negative. Nothing for anyone to accept other than seeing someone having more fun because they get in more laps.
Thanks for your comment. So, there is a lot here. First, for me there is a big difference in the way the ebike rides... I think maybe it's because I'm sort of a smaller guy at 5'8" 145 lbs and the bike just has a larger presence in the overall experience. I would also say of the people I see out on my trails on e bikes I would say maybe half look like newbs and not real comfortable on the trail or the bike and are not overly fit.... just and observation. That said, many of the very serious riders I know also have e bikes for the very reason you mentioned... more riding in less time. In any case, e bikes are not a negative thing in the area's I ride... I really don't hear anyone really complain about it although I know it has been a hot topic here on the internet.
no yumyum don't go to the dark side :)
Haha yolo
That suspension looks harsh.
Yeah, it is... I need to sort it out for sure
From my experience the subset of MTB elitists that rag on ebikes are speaking from pure ignorance and have never even been on one.
I honestly thing the problems surrounding e bikes are mostly on the internet... I see e bikes basically ever day I ride for the past 3 seasons and I don't see any problems with other riders or any issues at all... as long as everyone is being responsible, it's a non issue.
@@mtbyumyum completely agree. Although I do know e few ebike detractors personally they're just old school dirt surfers
Et tu Brute?
You lost me buddy😢
The BLM and the US Forest service is totally wrong on theiir e-bike position. Everyone is ignoring their moronic position.
Just looked at the prices of pivot bikes,I certainly won’t be getting one
I hear you... prices on bikes are getting a bit crazy...
haha wow, moped mode
Brilliantly crafted commentsult there
Cheating….now anyone can fly around..without even trying or getting better, stronger and can eat a bag of chips while doing it.
Lame
???
He’s referring to his own personality.
So are you getting one to keep?! @mtbyumyum
Yeah, this is mine.
@@mtbyumyumsick!!!