I had to laugh out loud, I have wondered for years how the Db piccolo came to be... and then the reason being so incredibly logical and simple. Great video Bret!
I am a lot more experienced and comfortable with flutes as opposed to say, saxophones, which you know so well. I will say that personally the old system Eb and D instruments aren’t too bad; D flutes are easily played thinking in C, and Eb instruments are easily played, use the “think in Bass clef” trick like you’d used for alto sax. As for the naming of pitches, Boehm took the D scale of the flute, and made it in C for “chromatic facility” which explains why flutes are they easiest to play (in the lower 2 octaves) in any key. And the reason for existence, you got it right, partially. The super fast “acrobatic” flute parts in marches, which use flat keys, are unbelievably more easy, especially trills. However, think of it this way, the Db and C flutes and piccolos are the flute version of the Bb and A clarinets. Historical instruments show this with the earliest flutes and clarinets and their corps de rechange. Personally I really love the Db piccolo, extends my range upwards by a semitone (4th F on a good day, unless you’re sitting next to me). And playing hard chromatic passages are super easy (you can play Syrinx in C!) What I really need to track down is a Db flute, and believe it or not, an Eb Boehm piccolo. Yes, Eb, as in, a full step above the Db piccolo. Made by Conn for a few years
The two instruments predate those acrobatic parts, however. We know that Db instruments go back at least into the early 1800s (Berlioz used them in the 1830s) and maybe even into the late 1700s. Back then, acrobatic flute parts weren't nearly as common as they would be by Sousa's day. A Db Flute is on my wishlist as well. They pop up on eBay from time to time, though right now I'd much rather have an Eb Flute as I'm including a part for it in Symphony 3.
I don’t have a Boehm Eb, I think David Schottle owns one if you know him very well. I do however, have an F simple system flute, which is easy enough to “think in Eb” if the D flute became the C flute, the Eb piccolo became the Db piccolo, then this flute is the ancestor to the Eb flute. Just a cool tidbit, that the Boehm Eb flute even has a simple system equivalent.
Modern Boehm flutes and “old style Boehm” (cylindrical) piccolos aren’t fully cylindrical either. They have a parabolic head bore, and as for the Conn piccolos, they’re almost a straight taper head
Saw one advertised stating the Db piccolo is preferable now for ensemble playing. I picked up a nice Conn Db 1941 at a jumble sale a while back. I have a broken finger, so this little thing might be fun to play. Thank you.
So my mind is blown. I'm a not so good strings player who loves history. My daughter is getting somewhat serious into flute. I found and was given a 1934 Haynes piccolo a few years back in a house clean out and have no idea what it is. I am so excited to get it to a shop tomorrow to maybe, just maybe find out what I have. The saga continues. Great video.
@@alexalestareon695 To me, i am trying to find blue prints for a recorder so I can learn to make recorders and I think that instrument would sound SO MUCH BETTER IN Bflat and Eflat... The way a bass recorder speaks in F is asking for an Eflat upgrade at times with the sound of it, but also needs a larger labium with upgrades as well. That instrument suffers from " NEEDS UPDATES " like Keys, maybe an octave key + register combination.
A recorder in B flat would be called a fourth flute. To find one in E flat, you’ll have to find a “standard alto” tuned to Early French Baroque pitch (a = 392).
I always sneak through my Band directors sheet music shelves. I think he knows that though and ia ok with it. There is a few Db piccolo Pieces of music
Simple system wooden D flutes are still very much en vogue in Irish music. Once the old flutes started becoming rare 40 or 50 years ago, there became a market for new ones. There are quite a few private makers who make flutes only for that niche market. Some of them are rather expensive.
I still don’t understand how you can tell the difference just by looking at a Db & C piccolos if they were not marked. What ‘exactly’ sets them apart? Which keys are different? If you had a Gemeinhardt 4SP, for example, to put side by side with the Db then point out any differences from THAT perspective, it’d be easier to understand rather than pairing it with a bulb headjoint with split-E composite piccolo.
modern concert C flute is actually still a D flute with the exception of F# and additional high C hole for thumb. C flute should have equivalent simple 6 hole fingerings of "C-D-E-F-G-A-B" like on C whistle. if you want you can drop Boehm stuff on top of that and it will become "concert Bb flute".
The highest note on today's piccolo is a High C (piccolo in C). My question is, if one plays the same highest C piccolo FINGERING on the D flat piccolo, does the D flat piccolo actually play a very high D flat - a half step above todays C piccolo}, which todays "regular piccolos" in C cannot reach because today's C piccolo fingering is an actual concert High C and it cannot go a half step higher? Of course, I know of no composition that requires a high D flat with six ledger lines.
Yes, it can go a half step higher. Experienced piccolo players, however, can reach the high D-flat on a C piccolo. Not that it's used very much. I haven't seen it so far, and all contemporary works from now on are written for C piccolo.
Hello Mr. Newton, In somewhat relation to your Flute/Piccolo video I have a question about the Alto Flute. I love the rich warm tone of the very low register of the flute, specifically from F all the way down. So I figured why don't I try out Alto Flute. So I've been wanting to try Alto Flute for a while now but, before I go start looking for flutes. I would like to research the Alto Flute, a little bit more.
Do you happen to know any Concert Band, Wind Ensemble, or Orchestral pieces that have the Alto Flute in the score, and do you also happen to know any pieces that feature the Solo Alto Flute or Chamber group with Alto Flute, where the Alto Flute plays the main melody regularly and is not constricted to the confines of the low register? Thank you so much for your assistance in this matter.
There are loads of works that call for Alto Flute. Holst Planets, Stravinsky Rite of Spring, Ravel Daphnis. Post-1915, the world of Alto Flute really opens up and it becomes nearly a standard instrument in orchestral works.
The way i see it, the modern flute is technically a D flute with two extra keys attached to it. I saw an e flat piccolo on eBay and I want to know if there would be any reason to get it?? Any music written for it??
Correction to an earlier comment: I believe Haynes in their early stages made Eb piccolos. I have a piccolos made by George W. Haynes himself, in awful condition, that not only shorter than my Conn, Yamaha and Bettoney C piccolos, but a great deal shorter than my Artley Db piccolo too. I know that’s not the only indicator but I’ll find out for sure. Odd instrument; oldest soldered tonehole picc I’ve seen; maybe one of the first since George Haynes was the first to use soldered toneholes
I just unwittingly bought a Db flute on ebay. It's a Selmer S-series engraved "U.S." It's 1 1/4" shorter than a C flute. Serial number S-448. Does anyone know the year?
Until Boehm flutes became the standard version of flutes, a flute in D would be the so-called pitch that even the modern concert flute we play today would be called. If you see an old piccolo labeled D, ITV is actually a concert pitched instrument in C. Therefore a simple system D flat piccolo would likely be labeled E flat. Although rare, there are a few piccolos marked F which by our modern nomenclature are really in E flat. Confusing? Yes! But this all comes from a historical context without our present day, post industrial standardization. To add to all this muck was the attempt to raise band pitch to a higher, more brilliant level where A vibrated about 452 cycles rather than the standard 440 cycles. If you see the label HP, that is what It means and that it will play very sharp if used in combination with modern instruments.
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I had to laugh out loud, I have wondered for years how the Db piccolo came to be... and then the reason being so incredibly logical and simple. Great video Bret!
I am a lot more experienced and comfortable with flutes as opposed to say, saxophones, which you know so well.
I will say that personally the old system Eb and D instruments aren’t too bad; D flutes are easily played thinking in C, and Eb instruments are easily played, use the “think in Bass clef” trick like you’d used for alto sax.
As for the naming of pitches, Boehm took the D scale of the flute, and made it in C for “chromatic facility” which explains why flutes are they easiest to play (in the lower 2 octaves) in any key.
And the reason for existence, you got it right, partially. The super fast “acrobatic” flute parts in marches, which use flat keys, are unbelievably more easy, especially trills.
However, think of it this way, the Db and C flutes and piccolos are the flute version of the Bb and A clarinets. Historical instruments show this with the earliest flutes and clarinets and their corps de rechange.
Personally I really love the Db piccolo, extends my range upwards by a semitone (4th F on a good day, unless you’re sitting next to me). And playing hard chromatic passages are super easy (you can play Syrinx in C!)
What I really need to track down is a Db flute, and believe it or not, an Eb Boehm piccolo. Yes, Eb, as in, a full step above the Db piccolo. Made by Conn for a few years
The two instruments predate those acrobatic parts, however. We know that Db instruments go back at least into the early 1800s (Berlioz used them in the 1830s) and maybe even into the late 1700s. Back then, acrobatic flute parts weren't nearly as common as they would be by Sousa's day. A Db Flute is on my wishlist as well. They pop up on eBay from time to time, though right now I'd much rather have an Eb Flute as I'm including a part for it in Symphony 3.
I don’t have a Boehm Eb, I think David Schottle owns one if you know him very well.
I do however, have an F simple system flute, which is easy enough to “think in Eb” if the D flute became the C flute, the Eb piccolo became the Db piccolo, then this flute is the ancestor to the Eb flute. Just a cool tidbit, that the Boehm Eb flute even has a simple system equivalent.
6:10 it is a D Dorian scale
Modern Boehm flutes and “old style Boehm” (cylindrical) piccolos aren’t fully cylindrical either. They have a parabolic head bore, and as for the Conn piccolos, they’re almost a straight taper head
Saw one advertised stating the Db piccolo is preferable now for ensemble playing. I picked up a nice Conn Db 1941 at a jumble sale a while back. I have a broken finger, so this little thing might be fun to play. Thank you.
So my mind is blown. I'm a not so good strings player who loves history. My daughter is getting somewhat serious into flute. I found and was given a 1934 Haynes piccolo a few years back in a house clean out and have no idea what it is. I am so excited to get it to a shop tomorrow to maybe, just maybe find out what I have. The saga continues. Great video.
What I want is a Bb and Eb recorder.
Bb recorders exist. In 415 hertz though. I’ve never heard of an Eb recorder though. The Bb recorder goes by the name 4th flute at von Huene workshop.
@@alexalestareon695 To me, i am trying to find blue prints for a recorder so I can learn to make recorders and I think that instrument would sound SO MUCH BETTER IN Bflat and Eflat... The way a bass recorder speaks in F is asking for an Eflat upgrade at times with the sound of it, but also needs a larger labium with upgrades as well. That instrument suffers from " NEEDS UPDATES " like Keys, maybe an octave key + register combination.
A recorder in B flat would be called a fourth flute.
To find one in E flat, you’ll have to find a “standard alto” tuned to Early French Baroque pitch (a = 392).
Hey, you could check the tone holes on both of those antiques. I bet they aren't level/ have imperfections in them
I always sneak through my Band directors sheet music shelves. I think he knows that though and ia ok with it. There is a few Db piccolo Pieces of music
No soliciting
@@nandocordeiro5853 lol
Very interesting! Someone just gave me one of these. It is a Bettoney stamped L2334. How can I find any information on manufacture date?
Just might want to think about getting someone to play the flutes/piccolos
I came for knowledge
Simple system wooden D flutes are still very much en vogue in Irish music. Once the old flutes started becoming rare 40 or 50 years ago, there became a market for new ones. There are quite a few private makers who make flutes only for that niche market. Some of them are rather expensive.
I still don’t understand how you can tell the difference just by looking at a Db & C piccolos if they were not marked. What ‘exactly’ sets them apart? Which keys are different? If you had a Gemeinhardt 4SP, for example, to put side by side with the Db then point out any differences from THAT perspective, it’d be easier to understand rather than pairing it with a bulb headjoint with split-E composite piccolo.
Aside from the size, there will be little else that's different between the two. All D-flat Piccolos I've seen have "D-flat" marked somewhere on them.
modern concert C flute is actually still a D flute with the exception of F# and additional high C hole for thumb. C flute should have equivalent simple 6 hole fingerings of "C-D-E-F-G-A-B" like on C whistle. if you want you can drop Boehm stuff on top of that and it will become "concert Bb flute".
greatest video ever
The highest note on today's piccolo is a High C (piccolo in C). My question is, if one plays the same highest C piccolo FINGERING on the D flat piccolo, does the D flat piccolo actually play a very high D flat - a half step above todays C piccolo}, which todays "regular piccolos" in C cannot reach because today's C piccolo fingering is an actual concert High C and it cannot go a half step higher? Of course, I know of no composition that requires a high D flat with six ledger lines.
Yes, it can go a half step higher. Experienced piccolo players, however, can reach the high D-flat on a C piccolo. Not that it's used very much. I haven't seen it so far, and all contemporary works from now on are written for C piccolo.
Hello Mr. Newton, In somewhat relation to your Flute/Piccolo video I have a question about the Alto Flute. I love the rich warm tone of the very low register of the flute, specifically from F all the way down. So I figured why don't I try out Alto Flute. So I've been wanting to try Alto Flute for a while now but, before I go start looking for flutes. I would like to research the Alto Flute, a little bit more.
Do you happen to know any Concert Band, Wind Ensemble, or Orchestral pieces that have the Alto Flute in the score, and do you also happen to know any pieces that feature the Solo Alto Flute or Chamber group with Alto Flute, where the Alto Flute plays the main melody regularly and is not constricted to the confines of the low register? Thank you so much for your assistance in this matter.
I have one resource which is the Daphnis and Chloe Suite, which I am researching now.
There are loads of works that call for Alto Flute. Holst Planets, Stravinsky Rite of Spring, Ravel Daphnis. Post-1915, the world of Alto Flute really opens up and it becomes nearly a standard instrument in orchestral works.
The way i see it, the modern flute is technically a D flute with two extra keys attached to it.
I saw an e flat piccolo on eBay and I want to know if there would be any reason to get it?? Any music written for it??
Correction to an earlier comment:
I believe Haynes in their early stages made Eb piccolos.
I have a piccolos made by George W. Haynes himself, in awful condition, that not only shorter than my Conn, Yamaha and Bettoney C piccolos, but a great deal shorter than my Artley Db piccolo too. I know that’s not the only indicator but I’ll find out for sure. Odd instrument; oldest soldered tonehole picc I’ve seen; maybe one of the first since George Haynes was the first to use soldered toneholes
Measure the sounding length from the middle of the embouchure hole to the end of the instrument. It could very well be a Db high pitch (~A=457)
I just unwittingly bought a Db flute on ebay. It's a Selmer S-series engraved "U.S." It's 1 1/4" shorter than a C flute. Serial number S-448. Does anyone know the year?
@will triumph Maybe. What are you offering? I know it's "ALL Silver." (except for pads, screws, etc.)
@will triumph yeah, this is not a piccolo, it's a flute.
@treslongwell1332 any chance you still have the flute?? I'm super curious
Yes, I still have it. I know it's all sterling, including the keys. @@menotyou4289
A D-flat flute? Now those are quite rare.
Is there such an instrument as a D piccolo? I believe I have a D flat piccolo, but the marking says "D".
Until Boehm flutes became the standard version of flutes, a flute in D would be the so-called pitch that even the modern concert flute we play today would be called. If you see an old piccolo labeled D, ITV is actually a concert pitched instrument in C. Therefore a simple system D flat piccolo would likely be labeled E flat. Although rare, there are a few piccolos marked F which by our modern nomenclature are really in E flat.
Confusing? Yes! But this all comes from a historical context without our present day, post industrial standardization.
To add to all this muck was the attempt to raise band pitch to a higher, more brilliant level where A vibrated about 452 cycles rather than the standard 440 cycles. If you see the label HP, that is what It means and that it will play very sharp if used in combination with modern instruments.
If your piccolo says “D” then that would be a concert-pitched instrument in “C”.
If the tuning seems high, then I might be an “HP” but it would still be in C.
You teach me flute
Me too
I am learn flute Nepal but
.