It's because the masochist passive gives us -100% until we take damage. Since we're in the shop and haven't taken any hits, everything's damage numbers are really low.
Another point on the “buying dodge when you want to take hits” situation: you ultimately need only survive to win. You can’t both take and dodge an attack, but you can simply forfeit the dodge benefit (by playing aggressively) when you’re healthier and utilize it when you need it. It gives options, and ‘survive’ is a good option in a game like this. Not to mention that the aforementioned ‘playing aggressively’ improves your wave clear. Dodge is a strict upgrade to not having dodge, it’s just that it’s arguable how great an upgrade it is at any given time.
Sorry, but I didn't understand the discussion of why the Triangle of Power isn't always net positive for the Masochist? He gets +5% from his passive, and -2% from the Triangle, so doesn't that net out at +3% each time he takes damage?
So the issue comes down to that after a certain amount of hits, the amount of flat damage % you get from Triangle of Power (ToP) is going to be less than the amount of damage you'd have had assuming you just had the passive ability. After 10 hits with ToP, you'd have lost 20% damage, leaving you with a net positive of 30%. So a total of 50% damage effectively. After 10 hits without ToP, you'd have +50% damage with just the passive, leaving you with that same amount of bonus damage. Every hit after the 10th will give you more damage if you didn't have the ToP than if you did. Hope this helps.
Yes, but you have to compare it to what you would have without the triangle. You get +20 damage, +3 per hit. If you take 5 hits, that's 20 + 3x5 = 35 extra damage. A normal masochist would have 5x5=25, so you're ahead after buying triangle. But if you take 20 hits, you have 20 + 20x3 = 80 damage, whereas without the triangle you'd have 20x5=100, so the triangle has cost you damage overall.
Question about Triangle of Power. Isn't it strictly a positive for this character? You take -2% damage from each hit but also get +5% due to the character right?
Yes, but you have to compare it to what you would have without the triangle. You get +20 damage, +3 per hit. If you take 5 hits, that's 20 + 3x5 = 35 extra damage. A normal masochist would have 5x5=25, so you're ahead after buying triangle. But if you take 20 hits, you have 20 + 20x3 = 80 damage, whereas without the triangle you'd have 20x5=100, so the triangle has cost you damage overall.
has nothing to do with this video but thought id put it out their do not get axolotl thinking or hoping in my case that it would give you stats you could not otherwise get. I was just playing mage and it was offering to witch my 119 luck with my 0 range dmg and I was hoping since it said swap those states that it may circumvent that I can't get ranged dmg. as a consolation I ended up with 9 luck and 0 ranged dmg not sure why it left me 9 luck maybe I had 9 ranged dmg before reduction??
any reason why you are not starting the danger 5 guide on the new levels with the original brotatos? the old guides are probably not the best for the new enemies. plus there are new weapons which also might be improvements. seems like a whole new avenue for you create more content.
Dodge does not make armor better or vice versa. Both are percent effective HP increases, but they are anti-synergistic. Dodge is synergistic with HP and regen.
That's simply not true. The more hits you can take on average, the more multiplicative increases to the number of hits you can take increase the total number of hits you can take. Functionally, there's no difference between 100 hp with 50% damage reduction from armour and 200 hp. Either are better for dodge than 100 hp with no armour.
@Cephalopocalypse That's just incorrect. If you have armor and gain dodge, some of the hits you would take are negated by dodging them, and some of the utility of the armor is obviated. For example, let's say you have 50% damage reduction via armor and no dodge. In the next 100 times you would take a hit, you would reduce 50% of the damage 100 times. If you have, say, 40% dodge, you would dodge (around) 40% of those hits and reduce 50% of the damage 60 times. Your armor literally reduced less damage. That's not to say you don't have more effective HP, because of course you do. But dodge is overlapping with armor by "doing some of its job", not enhancing its value. You get more survivability, but the rate of effective HP increase per unit armor decreases.
@@jgray2718 You are looking at the wrong number. The important number isn't "how many hits can you take" it's "how many attacks can you take." In your example, you have 100 x 2 x 1.66 EHP (40% dodge provides a 2/3 bonus to EHP). 2x166 is better than 2x100. A 100 HP character with no dodge and 50% reduction would go from 100 to 200 EHP, gaining 100 from armour. A character with 40% dodge goes from 166 to 332, gaining 166 from armour. Far from getting less EHP per point, you get more - because the armour gives you more chances to dodge. I'm sorry if I'm doing a poor job of explaining this - I realize it can get confusing! This is an *extremely* well-studied principle in strategy games (among many other fields) though, so if you don't want to take my word for it there are *tons* of resources out there to further explain how this works.
@@Cephalopocalypse You're not doing a bad job of explaining, you're just wrong. You said it yourself - you only care about how many attacks you can take. But armor only has value when you take hits. So if you take fewer hits armor is less valuable. Consider this thought experiment: you have 100% dodge. How valuable is armor? By your logic armor should be INCREDIBLY good since you have so much dodge! But armor has literally no value in that scenario because you don't take hits. So how about 99% dodge? Armor has very little value since you take almost no hits. It'll help you live in the rare case where a hit lands, but are you really spending tons of resources maxing your armor if you have 99% dodge? Of course not, because each marginal point of armor has almost no value when you only get hit every 10th wave. On the other hand, how valuable is armor when you have no dodge? Incredibly valuable! You tank every attack, so your armor is critical! Every marginal point of armor is important because you use it on every attack. This relationship holds in the middle values as well, it's just easier to see at the extremes.
@@jgray2718do you happen to think the earth is flat too? You’re completely failing to understand the well studied concept of Effective hp and are getting caught up in the numbers very impractically. Take it easy on the goof juice bud
Love that lute! A very lucky run, that cursed thunder sword at the end would make me go endless unless I was doing a challenge like this
Hah, just had probably the luckiest run of my brotato career today too on a rando/random King SMG build. *everything* went right.
really loving the random randoms, was wondering what series you would do next after the extreme gmo videos (which I also liked but these are great)
This video is my jam!
Commenting to satisfy the algorithm overlords
Cheers!
At 14:46 the Alien Eyes in the shop says "1 damage". Seems wrong, but I'm surprised it wasn't pointed out in the video.
It's because the masochist passive gives us -100% until we take damage. Since we're in the shop and haven't taken any hits, everything's damage numbers are really low.
Another point on the “buying dodge when you want to take hits” situation: you ultimately need only survive to win.
You can’t both take and dodge an attack, but you can simply forfeit the dodge benefit (by playing aggressively) when you’re healthier and utilize it when you need it. It gives options, and ‘survive’ is a good option in a game like this.
Not to mention that the aforementioned ‘playing aggressively’ improves your wave clear.
Dodge is a strict upgrade to not having dodge, it’s just that it’s arguable how great an upgrade it is at any given time.
Actually, you mentioned some of these near the end of the video
Let's go!
Ahhh the tortured artist run
🔥🔥🔥🔥
I really love triangle of power. Sure i love bloody hand too, but even more than that i love killing enemies before they can do anything
Also, based pocket factory enjoyer
Weird ghost: 70% of the time it works every time.
also, two pirate runs for fun: captain + jack (POTC), and sailor + gangster (just a pirate)
Sorry, but I didn't understand the discussion of why the Triangle of Power isn't always net positive for the Masochist? He gets +5% from his passive, and -2% from the Triangle, so doesn't that net out at +3% each time he takes damage?
So the issue comes down to that after a certain amount of hits, the amount of flat damage % you get from Triangle of Power (ToP) is going to be less than the amount of damage you'd have had assuming you just had the passive ability. After 10 hits with ToP, you'd have lost 20% damage, leaving you with a net positive of 30%. So a total of 50% damage effectively. After 10 hits without ToP, you'd have +50% damage with just the passive, leaving you with that same amount of bonus damage. Every hit after the 10th will give you more damage if you didn't have the ToP than if you did. Hope this helps.
Yes, but you have to compare it to what you would have without the triangle. You get +20 damage, +3 per hit. If you take 5 hits, that's 20 + 3x5 = 35 extra damage. A normal masochist would have 5x5=25, so you're ahead after buying triangle. But if you take 20 hits, you have 20 + 20x3 = 80 damage, whereas without the triangle you'd have 20x5=100, so the triangle has cost you damage overall.
Ah, of course! Thanks both!
Question about Triangle of Power. Isn't it strictly a positive for this character? You take -2% damage from each hit but also get +5% due to the character right?
Yes, but you have to compare it to what you would have without the triangle. You get +20 damage, +3 per hit. If you take 5 hits, that's 20 + 3x5 = 35 extra damage. A normal masochist would have 5x5=25, so you're ahead after buying triangle. But if you take 20 hits, you have 20 + 20x3 = 80 damage, whereas without the triangle you'd have 20x5=100, so the triangle has cost you damage overall.
The Mafia run requests go on hold for random random, algorithm comment day 12
How do i get the Lute ?
has nothing to do with this video but thought id put it out their do not get axolotl thinking or hoping in my case that it would give you stats you could not otherwise get. I was just playing mage and it was offering to witch my 119 luck with my 0 range dmg and I was hoping since it said swap those states that it may circumvent that I can't get ranged dmg. as a consolation I ended up with 9 luck and 0 ranged dmg not sure why it left me 9 luck maybe I had 9 ranged dmg before reduction??
Is lute the best weapon in the game? It for sure has the 2 best tags.
any reason why you are not starting the danger 5 guide on the new levels with the original brotatos? the old guides are probably not the best for the new enemies. plus there are new weapons which also might be improvements. seems like a whole new avenue for you create more content.
hmm, no crazy weapons so far. Waiting for some insane rolls for our favourite alienphile!
Me too! Fairly safe rolls so far
Dodge does not make armor better or vice versa. Both are percent effective HP increases, but they are anti-synergistic. Dodge is synergistic with HP and regen.
That's simply not true. The more hits you can take on average, the more multiplicative increases to the number of hits you can take increase the total number of hits you can take. Functionally, there's no difference between 100 hp with 50% damage reduction from armour and 200 hp. Either are better for dodge than 100 hp with no armour.
@Cephalopocalypse That's just incorrect. If you have armor and gain dodge, some of the hits you would take are negated by dodging them, and some of the utility of the armor is obviated.
For example, let's say you have 50% damage reduction via armor and no dodge. In the next 100 times you would take a hit, you would reduce 50% of the damage 100 times. If you have, say, 40% dodge, you would dodge (around) 40% of those hits and reduce 50% of the damage 60 times. Your armor literally reduced less damage.
That's not to say you don't have more effective HP, because of course you do. But dodge is overlapping with armor by "doing some of its job", not enhancing its value. You get more survivability, but the rate of effective HP increase per unit armor decreases.
@@jgray2718 You are looking at the wrong number. The important number isn't "how many hits can you take" it's "how many attacks can you take."
In your example, you have 100 x 2 x 1.66 EHP (40% dodge provides a 2/3 bonus to EHP). 2x166 is better than 2x100.
A 100 HP character with no dodge and 50% reduction would go from 100 to 200 EHP, gaining 100 from armour. A character with 40% dodge goes from 166 to 332, gaining 166 from armour. Far from getting less EHP per point, you get more - because the armour gives you more chances to dodge.
I'm sorry if I'm doing a poor job of explaining this - I realize it can get confusing! This is an *extremely* well-studied principle in strategy games (among many other fields) though, so if you don't want to take my word for it there are *tons* of resources out there to further explain how this works.
@@Cephalopocalypse You're not doing a bad job of explaining, you're just wrong.
You said it yourself - you only care about how many attacks you can take. But armor only has value when you take hits. So if you take fewer hits armor is less valuable.
Consider this thought experiment: you have 100% dodge. How valuable is armor? By your logic armor should be INCREDIBLY good since you have so much dodge! But armor has literally no value in that scenario because you don't take hits. So how about 99% dodge? Armor has very little value since you take almost no hits. It'll help you live in the rare case where a hit lands, but are you really spending tons of resources maxing your armor if you have 99% dodge? Of course not, because each marginal point of armor has almost no value when you only get hit every 10th wave.
On the other hand, how valuable is armor when you have no dodge? Incredibly valuable! You tank every attack, so your armor is critical! Every marginal point of armor is important because you use it on every attack.
This relationship holds in the middle values as well, it's just easier to see at the extremes.
@@jgray2718do you happen to think the earth is flat too? You’re completely failing to understand the well studied concept of Effective hp and are getting caught up in the numbers very impractically. Take it easy on the goof juice bud
BG3 camp buff 🙏
You can't loot the lute
Day 19 of asking for the "Brick only" challenge 😂😜✌️💜