Interactive Gettysburg Wargame

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2019
  • In this season premiere episode, Little Wars TV revisits the greatest battle in American history to see if Robert E Lee can avoid making the same mistakes. Played inside the historic "Lee Headquarters" building at Gettysburg, our team of wargaming pros matches wits against a team of professional historians from the American Battlefield Trust to refight the entire three day battle on a custom 8'x6' tabletop with thousands of hand painted 6mm miniatures. In the month leading up to the game, the American Battlefield Trust polled the public on a series of critical command decisions for each army. Nearly 10,000 votes were cast, and your votes determined some of the key orders given to the players on each side of this game. What orders did you issue and how will Lee and Meade fare 156 years later at Gettysburg? Find out this week on Little Wars TV!
    Visit www.LittleWarsTV.com for bonus content and much more! Next week we'll post a video showing you how we made the custom tabletop for this game, based on the 1868 "Warren map," drafted by the chief engineer of the Union army. We'll also talk more with Garry Adelman of the American Battlefield Trust about the mission of the Trust and what we can all do to support their preservation efforts.
    Please visit www.battlefields.org to learn more about the American Battlefield Trust. We owe a huge "Thank You!" for their participation in this wargame.
    We are also indebted to Nick Podehl, an award winning audio book narrator, for his shared love of military history and his narration in this episode. If you're in the market for a talented voice actor, please visit Nick's website at nickpodehl.com
    Finally, we had a lot of fun wearing period hats and costumes for this event, all provided by the Victorian Photography Studio in downtown Gettysburg. If you're visiting the park and want a digital or authentic wet plate photograph of you or your family in period attire, this is a "must visit" shop. You can find them at www.victorianphotostudio.com
    To learn more about the wargame rules used in this scenario, you can watch our review of "Altar of Freedom" here: • Altar of Freedom Rule ...
  • เกม

ความคิดเห็น • 271

  • @dluff
    @dluff 5 ปีที่แล้ว +184

    "day late but still got him"....LOL

  • @speedydb55
    @speedydb55 5 ปีที่แล้ว +185

    "Dan Sickles: Hero of Gettysburg." Did not see that one coming.

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +72

      No kidding! NO ONE saw that coming, trust me. Everyone playing in the game was laughing about it.

    • @jony663
      @jony663 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      David glad Sickles came to the rescue

    • @TaterChip91
      @TaterChip91 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      He just had "a leg" up on them..

    • @mwt3579
      @mwt3579 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sickles was just crazy enough to pull it off😄

  • @brettd2308
    @brettd2308 5 ปีที่แล้ว +140

    Good stuff. As much as I think the aggressive Union moves were bad decisions, I like that people get to see them and how they turn out, as one of the most common criticisms of Meade at Gettysburg is that he didn't take the chance to decisively eliminate Lee's army. A lot of armchair generals just don't realize how much harder/riskier that would've been, and how it didn't necessarily play into Meade's objectives at the time - defending Washington was paramount, so he just needed to sit on defensive ground between Lee and the capital.

    • @ostrowulf
      @ostrowulf 5 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Ah, the good ol' "if only they had..." I love the "20/20 hindsight" theory, as really even it is not, since people often miss major factors, usually, but not by no means exclusively, logistical ones.

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +43

      Agreed on all counts--it was very fun to see a more aggressive Union posture in this game. It did not end well for Sickles or Hancock, but the Federals had some limited success around Wolf's Hill and managed to catch Ewell's flank. There's no question it funneled the Confederate efforts into the center.

  • @bernardputersznit64
    @bernardputersznit64 5 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    "A Day Late, But We STILL Got Him"

  • @yaitz3313
    @yaitz3313 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    This video inspired me to go read "Sickles at Gettysburg" by James A. Hessler.
    And WOW is he a character and a half.

  • @kevindarke7646
    @kevindarke7646 5 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    "You should of voted to have us go to the right, to the right" lol love it.

  • @sdporres
    @sdporres 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    "Day late, but still got him"
    Brutal Steve, hahaha

  • @HardingWE
    @HardingWE 5 ปีที่แล้ว +47

    In before Tom is blamed for losing the war.

  • @MrCaptbear42
    @MrCaptbear42 5 ปีที่แล้ว +103

    Another great video guys... Love the inclusion of the American Battlefield Trust. Thanks!

    • @douglasherron7534
      @douglasherron7534 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      My thoughts exactly. It was great to hear what they were saying and particularly how the wargame actually helped them to understand the mechanics of the real battle better.

  • @hexesandsoldiers6032
    @hexesandsoldiers6032 5 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    I'm not sure this show can get any better...Excellent work good sirs!

  • @enginetruck20
    @enginetruck20 5 ปีที่แล้ว +83

    Excellent work fellas!!!! I have been a donor and member of the American Battlefield Trust for years (CWPT formerly). I was happy to see their involvement in this project. All of you should be commended for the great work you have done here. You have advanced the hobby and I hope the preservation effort.

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Thank you, and YES, we hope everyone who enjoyed watching this video will consider becoming members of the Trust. They do some amazing work and it's hard to image a more worthy charity for military history buffs to support! We'll have a video interview with Garry about the Trust coming up later this month.

  • @sherrisilver5103
    @sherrisilver5103 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Love Garry's energy. He is one of those lucky few, those band of brothers......who actually get to do what they love for a living!! Go Garry, living the dream my friend!

  • @decb7959
    @decb7959 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    The audience stands and as one shout "bravo, bravo, more more".

  • @wannabegeneral
    @wannabegeneral 5 ปีที่แล้ว +62

    That was an amazingly entertaining and humourous video.
    The effort put into the figures, terrain and especially the game mechanics shows what a great hobby this is and I congratulate you all on a successful event.
    Also very jealous.....

  • @billburnside4364
    @billburnside4364 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    lost for word's, that was totally outstanding Gents, a very well done to all who took part, tonight it's going to be Gods and Generals and Gettysburg dvd night

  • @philipkelly7369
    @philipkelly7369 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Watching this again a year later on the anniversary

  • @dadsongs
    @dadsongs 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    This year, primarily through the efforts of the National Park Service, I became immersed in the pursuit of studying each day's action as July 1st - July 3rd rolled on. THIS video was the highlight of my observance of the battle! I love the good-natured competition, which gave me chuckles more than once. I have only one complaint (keep in mind, this comes from an educator): We do NOT use dry-erase markers on paper! :)

  • @tonymarano2664
    @tonymarano2664 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Woot! Season 2 is underway!

  • @MegaGamer-lg7sp
    @MegaGamer-lg7sp 5 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    Awesome! Is there a chance that yall' could do the same for the Battle of Sharpsburg?

    • @DH.2016
      @DH.2016 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Although not played on a public participation basis, the next best thing would be to watch their re-fight of Antietam.

  • @KrisWustrow
    @KrisWustrow 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I don't know how I missed this show over 2 years ago, but I'm soooo glad that TH-cam added it to my suggestions. This was awesome to watch!!

  • @knifedge1doolin180
    @knifedge1doolin180 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    One of my favorite narrators!

  • @garyjd1166
    @garyjd1166 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Awesome game fellas. I'd love to see this format expanded to other ACW and AWI battles/battlefields.

  • @hanszieten6288
    @hanszieten6288 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Fantastic! Your best video yet.
    I was wondering when I’d regret selling my huge ACW armies 5 years ago and it just happened half way through this! Grrr.
    Great to see you back guys 👍

  • @waxfrance
    @waxfrance 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Just Awesome! Guys, you make my day!
    Brilliant!
    I need to share it quickly!

  • @StackingLimit
    @StackingLimit 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I just love this series and the Table is Beautiful!

  • @greatbattlesofhistory9439
    @greatbattlesofhistory9439 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Quality of video and the wargame set up is superb, love how you guys managed to integrate the audience into it, very nice job!

  • @Pengi_SMILES
    @Pengi_SMILES 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    So glad to see Little Wars TV back. A fantastic video to start the season, can't wait for what's to come, and what new rules you will make me buy.

  • @ddorricott
    @ddorricott 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic upload! Thanks to all involved.

  • @edthilenius7530
    @edthilenius7530 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I really enjoyed this great show. Thanks to all.

  • @HerooftheTable
    @HerooftheTable 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    You are setting a high bar for what we are going to expect to see from season 2. Great work as always!

  • @DG-ky2cu
    @DG-ky2cu 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    What a superb start to season 2. Well done to all of you. Epic!

  • @jordancrump7518
    @jordancrump7518 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Well done, gentleman. Been looking forward to this all summer and it did not disappoint! I hope this marks the beginning of an ongoing interactive series!

  • @sagebrother
    @sagebrother 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great fun to watch and what a wonderful way to bring in the audience.

  • @princeofmoskova
    @princeofmoskova 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    As both a long time wargamer and a long time member of The Trust I'm so very happy to see this project come to my computer screen. Great job gentlemen! I want to see more!!!

  • @georgeanderson6349
    @georgeanderson6349 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great stuff, you guys are a wonderful advert for the hobby and an inspiration to the rest of us.

  • @dalewood3676
    @dalewood3676 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    A hardy Well Done! Gentlemen. I enjoyed the presentation very much. The interactive in taking orders was innovative. Beautiful terrain and figures. There is so much potential in doing other engagements in this format and from other periods too. The cinematography was well done. Thank you and I look forward to more of similar actions.

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Very much appreciated, Dale. Thank you. We're also hoping to expand this format in the future, seeing how the first one turned out so well!

  • @paulbrown7369
    @paulbrown7369 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Enjoyed this very much. The command decisions were a nice touch!

  • @smat2899
    @smat2899 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a game you made all of you guys ! Congratulations !

  • @JackSargePainting
    @JackSargePainting 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    That was epic! Thanks so much for posting this, it would be great to see future collaboration between Little Wars & Battlefield Trust :-)

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Thanks, Jack. We had a great time working with the Trust on this and really hope it leads to more people becoming members of their great charity! We'd love to collaborate with them again.

  • @sebastienhardinger4149
    @sebastienhardinger4149 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really fun video. Whoever produced it did a fantastic job introducing suspense into the battle

  • @garybullock5917
    @garybullock5917 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hi Ive just started watching your site its great thanks I stopped playing about 30 years ago as it was getting to competitive and no one wanted to do historical games I have keeped on miniature painting so now I can paint and watch thanks

  • @Joey---
    @Joey--- 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was a great deal of fun to watch. I liked that it was played at Gettysburg and the improvised acting was superb!

  • @Mancspartan88
    @Mancspartan88 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic. A great watch, thanks guys.

  • @leonidaslantz5249
    @leonidaslantz5249 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great game. Thank you ,Little Wars!

  • @DH.2016
    @DH.2016 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well done for organizing a very entertaining re-fight. Great table layout, also.

  • @robdmorton
    @robdmorton 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I really enjoyed watching this. I also loved the fact that despite taking Cemetery Hill, the ANV still could not push forward as this was not the outcome I would have expected.

  • @deathguarddavegoogley2022
    @deathguarddavegoogley2022 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That looked like REALLY good fun! Thanks for sharing this. Awesome.

  • @vincentstella5131
    @vincentstella5131 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Gentlemen, you performed admirably all of you in how you presented the battle in both game and historical terms. The minis and the terrain looked awesome. Thank you to both Little Wars and the American Battlefield Trust of which I am a proud member. I look forward to your next "battle".

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks, Vincent! We have plenty more battles to come here at Little Wars, and hopefully another future collaboration with the Trust. They were great to work with on this.

  • @ulfur7584
    @ulfur7584 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Just discovered your channel, seen a lot of your videos and love them, my only complaints are that the videos should be longer and show more actual gameplay, would love to see more of you guys playing them games, measuring, moving troops, ect. But i love the fact that you re-create historical battles and give little history lessons too, awesome channel, thanks

  • @AndrewBrew
    @AndrewBrew 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well done, gents. An outstanding start to the season. I look forward to seeing more, and in particular, for reasons Greg will understand, to the promised review of what rules mods you used to make AoF even quicker playing.

  • @acsmith70325
    @acsmith70325 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I thoroughly enjoyed this. Thanks!

  • @rastamann2009
    @rastamann2009 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This was a spectacular show, and I don’t even have any interest in gaming the ACW! Greetings from Portugal and I am now an increasingly big, big fan of you guys. Your games are truly ever more inspiring!

  • @Nigel296
    @Nigel296 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great production. Well done team. Keep the content coming.

  • @trevorbarrett8569
    @trevorbarrett8569 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Such a cool and interesting collaboration - love the video. Well done all around.

  • @ericbertrand2386
    @ericbertrand2386 ปีที่แล้ว

    Zour stuff is so amazing and impressive, if I didn't live in Switzerland I would like to play with you every single battle!
    And your historical work, analysis ans discussion are so good too! Thanks for all!

  • @stephenbrittain4391
    @stephenbrittain4391 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome folks. That was a great watch. Thx

  • @johncrome1605
    @johncrome1605 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very entertaining, and a lot of food for thought if the battle had gone this way. Well done.

  • @Anvilarm07
    @Anvilarm07 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Brilliant. Your best batrep yet. The map and the figures were amazing. The idea of letting the public vote on major strategic decisions was also brilliant. (I hope you try that again.) Refighting the battle on the actual battlefield was breathtaking. You also got a great balance of narration and moving figures on the battle field. I was able to follow it perfectly.

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Getting public participation in the game was certainly a new and interesting wrinkle for this one. The American Battlefield Trust did a great job running the online polling and collecting the 10,000 votes. They really helped drive that part of the scenario and it's something we'd love to try again in a future episode.

  • @Chrisbo123
    @Chrisbo123 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Awesome! Even though I`m not big into ACW this was very interesting to watch! Great video as usual guys

  • @becsaighead
    @becsaighead 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What a superb idea! This is a great way to extend the hobby's reach to the history audience. Well done!

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks, Brent! It has absolutely been a great outreach tool for us so far.

  • @wolfetom10
    @wolfetom10 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Never seen a better tabletop wargame video. Bravo.

  • @Jake-om5dm
    @Jake-om5dm 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I am somewhat amazed that Sickles corps lunched such a vigorous assault despite the death of their commander, my complements to the courage and fortitude of those New Yorkers.

  • @norseman_5334
    @norseman_5334 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What an awesome video and game! Great format!!

  • @TaterChip91
    @TaterChip91 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love the cotton ball smoke effect, that was a neat detail

  • @adavis5926
    @adavis5926 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was a lot of fun! Thanks for the video.

  • @philRminiatures
    @philRminiatures 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Spectacular and superb, a brilliant lesson of History!😍😍

  • @frankofva8803
    @frankofva8803 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent! I wish you could do this for all the major battles. I loved it.

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      We wish we could, too! It takes a lot of time and resources to put one of these together and tragically, wargaming is not quite a full time job!

  • @redmist1122
    @redmist1122 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That was super awesome! and very entertaining as well.

  • @brianford8493
    @brianford8493 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Brilliant!....my brother and i did Waterloo in 15mm many years ago......The Froggies prevailed damn it!

  • @silverwargaming8453
    @silverwargaming8453 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing video guys great job!

  • @leesheppard2432
    @leesheppard2432 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Fantastic video and battle report. This is why I've been with you guys since your very first video. Can't wait to see what comes next.

  • @reglavcor
    @reglavcor 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great video guys! You are finally above TMP, in my book! In fact, I won't even bring up GENERAL D'BRIGADE!!!

  • @hobbitonman
    @hobbitonman 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video. Great looking game. Looked like a lot of fun.

  • @get_the_lead_out
    @get_the_lead_out 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Guys, this was truly your best video yet. The work you had to put in was staggering; but, it was absolutely amazing!! I’m assuming you will review the ruleset soon?

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      th-cam.com/video/x7hMYYwVTKs/w-d-xo.html

  • @math4U1234
    @math4U1234 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is way cool. I'v been missing this for two years!

  • @andrewnoble8195
    @andrewnoble8195 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic ! just wishing the video was longer.

  • @seanmorgan2257
    @seanmorgan2257 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    this was a really interesting video, and excellently played

  • @michaelolz
    @michaelolz 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This looks like a lot of fun! To have the time between being a husband, father, programmer and guitarist. At least I can always watch. Great video, men! I learned a lot!

  • @norahorphzinger6721
    @norahorphzinger6721 ปีที่แล้ว

    Such a rewatchable war game

  • @kimchapman9198
    @kimchapman9198 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Superb stuff guys

  • @Oldf0x
    @Oldf0x 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    incredibly engaging and lots of fun!

  • @brianbright7501
    @brianbright7501 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Y'all protected the army they will be around for another day. Fantastic game fantastic video, you guys are just awesome!!! Thank you for the history lesson and the fun

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks, Brian! And yes, despite being forced to withdraw from the field, the strategic implications of the outcome in this game would have been profound. Lee's army was not crippled and the Army of the Potomac suffered a lot of punishment for holding the field. The rest of the summer 1863 campaign would have played out quite differently, indeed.

  • @kaigamer8250
    @kaigamer8250 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hope to see more like this.

  • @davidgeister
    @davidgeister 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well done, lads! Great to see Dr. Black there as Hancock!

  • @luisguzman1537
    @luisguzman1537 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great game guys! Wished I was there. Tom is one of my favorite little wars tv member ( no offese to anyone) keep making great Games!!

  • @anthonyat2401
    @anthonyat2401 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice one guys, with a few cheeky quotes from history. I can't help but feel that all that traffic noise must have been a major distraction for Robert E Lee...

  • @batesmt25
    @batesmt25 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent job!👍🏼

  • @manuelkong10
    @manuelkong10 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well played very fun!!

  • @danmeehan1390
    @danmeehan1390 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great presentation

  • @elconfederado69
    @elconfederado69 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love it! Steve, you are my kind of wargamer. I like your style!

    • @DH.2016
      @DH.2016 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, he's off his head ..... but in a good way! 8-)

  • @e-4airman124
    @e-4airman124 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great job really enjoyed

  • @sirus976
    @sirus976 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Season 2 begins YAY!!

  • @stephenpodeschi6052
    @stephenpodeschi6052 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    fine video as usual I like how you put the game into historical perspective though it would
    be great if much more of the actual Bat/raps were added say an hour to 2 hours depending
    on the battle or campaign , people will watch them keep up the good work cheers from the UK...

  • @prechabahnglai103
    @prechabahnglai103 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    To those this apply, why did you voted for "Reorganize" instead of continuing with the "Attack" on the first day?

    • @mynewinsignia6738
      @mynewinsignia6738 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      a bit late but : exactly!!! i was so frustrated, the opportunity was ripe

    • @admiralseabass8993
      @admiralseabass8993 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Agreed. In reality if the confeds had pushed forward and taken Cemetery Hill on day 1, Meade probably withdrawals to better ground and Lee claims a victory on northern soil. That strategy to reorganize just makes no sense in light of the real objective Lee had.

  • @thunderccr5056
    @thunderccr5056 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great effort chaps!!
    Huuusssaarrrr from green old England.

  • @BruceRoeder
    @BruceRoeder 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well done gentlemen

  • @rambunctiousmedia3350
    @rambunctiousmedia3350 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was a fantastic battle with solid presentation! I'll sub if you guys do another interactive battle!
    Problem is, however, the only battles I can suggest are Cambrai of WWI infamy, the ACW's Vicksburg Campaign, and the Battle Of Long Island from the American Revolution.

  • @hobbyinggary7499
    @hobbyinggary7499 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cracking game gents. And what a setting!👌💯

    • @LittleWarsTV
      @LittleWarsTV  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hard to beat playing the Battle of Gettysburg in the Lee HQ! It was a real treat and we owe all the thanks to the American Battlefield Trust for getting us access in there.

  • @waynedarley6885
    @waynedarley6885 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love War games of this exact style. Although I actually haven't really ever played a war game, but painting and knowing about and painting of landscapes and uniforms is so far where my talents truly lay. Also knowing all about Napoleon's battles and campaigns, is where I also excell. The first battle I would love to do is ironically not a Napoleon Battle but in history a fairly unknown Battle in The Crimea War some 45 years later at Nov.5 1854 called " The Battle of Inkerman

  • @minsapint8007
    @minsapint8007 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This was a brilliant concept - the command decision idea worked very well to give an impression of how the battle might have been fought differently. I appreciate the rationale for the die roll to incapacitate General Hill but I would have been happier without that. You need a 2IC who can take over in that sort of situation. Everything just grinding to a halt should not be an option.