A project with a weight problem
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Before we can start converting this massive Land Rover Defender 130 to electric we have to address the elephant in the room. With the load we need to carry and the size of the battery pack we're putting in this monster we first of all need to put it on a diet. Let's see if we can hit target weight before we even think of dropping in our bolt-in electric conversion kit.
The earlier Td5 bonnet is a lot lighter than the Puma bonnet, as it's made from aluminium and not steel. In fact, the earlier push-button doors are a lot lighter too for the same reason (identified by the fact the window frames are welded together rather than a one piece pressing). You could go as far back as the two-piece doors with sliding windows. Rocky Mountain in Canada do some very nice aluminium door tops for these which would save weight.
Other than that, the Bowler wheels would help as they're a lightweight 7.5" x 16" wheel rated to 1200 kg each - enough for the max. rear axle load of 2200 kg of the Defender 130. You could go down to a more sensible size tyre, which will save an awful lot of weight. For the power, you could run 265/75 R16 tyres on those wheels.
Good info. Thanks 👍👍👍
Great info 👏👏👏
@@ElectricClassicCars Thought it was on bead-lockers but they're just fake steel wheels with studs. So a good set of alloys should shave a few kilo's.
Aftermarket suspension - radius arms etc. are available with a skeletal design that is lighter yet stronger.
Replace the bonnet with carbon fiber.
Wow. That Landy was wasting a LOT of gas hauling all that weight.
I suspect a lot of LR owners use them to boast how much they can afford to pay for petrol.
A lot of that weight was the engine and related parts. Wouldn't have used any gas (diesel) without that!
@@drumbrakes I was talking about the tow hook and the metal bar in the cargo bed
A steal out of the Porsche book !
You could swap the steel wheel nuts to alloy.
Not a huge weight reduction but it is an easy one.
If money was no object, you may be able to remove the steel roofrack and replace it with a carbon fibre one to save weight and lower the centre of gravity, making the Defender less likely to roll when off-roading and traversing side slopes.
Replacing the rear tailgate with a cargo net would be a nice weight improvement and could be quite a cheap mod.
I would say remove the complete truck bed and have a new light weight purpose built. Adopting this stock bed to fit 4 bikes with some kind of system to lift them in will be a huge challenge, so maybe you have a big opportunity there...
Carbon fiber would be a fair alternative if the net isn't the visual the owner is going for. Especially if the bonnet and tailgate were paired to look the same (same weave, same epoxy, etc.) and bring the front and back together. Maybe a custom logo for the owner...
Could put on a flat bed, customized to be lowered as a ramp for motor bikes or fold away to side profile revealing a goose neck connection, or just flat bed with stake slots for removable fencing or mouting a camper.
Nice to see this thing on Dutch export plates.
Four people, four bikes and all the stuff that goes along with are going to fit in that little thing? Reminds me of when a friend bought an H1 Hummer and was going to show off by taking three of us along to go skiing. After about 30 minutes of trying to load up we concluded there was no way we were fitting everything in there and ended up taking my Grand Cherokee instead. Change your spec to a more probable two bikes and you'll be happier in the end.
Very much looking forward to this build. Looks like an awesome restomod!
Richard.
Remove the steel winch Cable and replace with Polymer rope. 20 KG just there, then those ridiculous oversize wheels and tires and run more modest tires and wheels that will also make loading the bikes easier.
A slightly smaller width tire and slightly smaller size tires another 80 kg less easy.
Get shot of all the unnecessary tarts handbag kit would be a start. My late great uncle, a farmer, would laugh his socks of at modern land rovers after half a lifetime with his series two on the farm, off to market, off across the fields, off on holiday.
Just a thought.
For a second there, I thought you were planning for four passengers, 320Kg each :)
I'm so glad that one of your videos randomly showed up in TH-cam's suggestions. I wasn't the biggest fan of EVs, but watching you guys breathe new life into classic cars and do some amazing engineering work has started to convert me.
I find myself walking through parking lots while I'm out and about thinking "Hmmm...I wonder how much weight you could tear out of that thing to replace with a motor and batteries."
Thanks. That’s good to hear. Hope you keep watching 👍😀
Get rid of the head light protectors and yes drop in a carbon fibre bonnet. And then convince them to drop the roof rack. Slightly smaller or narrower tyres will also drop some weight. Guaranteed they'll throw a bunch of stuff in the back as well as the bikes (like ramps and gear) so you need that margin too.
Smaller tires would reduce overall weight, but if anything might reduce the overall weight capacity of the vehicle, in addition, you need to consider that the weight that is important here (in terms of safe operation) is the weight carried by the suspension, not the overall weight of the vehicle, so on some level the weight of wheels, axles, and part of the drive line doesn't really count toward an important part of the total...
Instead of weighing the whole vehicle, they might just want to weigh the parts they remove and compare that to the parts they are putting on.
Another thing to consider is weight distribution, especially when it comes to handling, braking and safety... this might actually be an opportunity to improve in this area.
@@davideloewen buddy its certified gvw is 3.5t on standard wheels.
Fill those tyres with Nitrogen. It is 3% lighter than air Ha ha!
@@peterduxbury927 Or helium - then it might float away.😁
@@minimoog4236 Good comment!
You wanted to keep a fairly aggressive off-road look. I'd put the winch back on, but use a synthetic cable, aluminum fairlead, and an aluminum bumper and bull bar. Warn is a good brand.
What is the roll cage made out of? If mild steel, then building a new one out of chromoly will save a bit of weight.
Build a new roof rack out of aluminum.
There are comments about messing around with the bed. Is the old bed steel or aluminum? You might end up making a new aluminum bed or tailgate that displays the motorcycles better.
Since you’re counting the suspension, and the tires, one wonders if the tires need to be as big as they are, and whether or not, the suspension could be changed, either for equivalence, with lighter weight and more expense, or smaller set up, that would not weigh as much. you’ve also made a big point of the sound deadening, perhaps there’s more sound deadening that you could remove. And maybe the tailgate on the pick up bad could be lost as well if you needed extra weight loss.
Fill those big tyres with helium and it'll just float away. :-)
Gross weight is 3500, but on a stock wheels. This vehicle has heavier ones, but with that conversion you can add the difference in wheels weight to gross weight, because it doesn't affects load on suspension or other parts. So you may put on stock wheels to make gain/loss calculations, or just substract wheels weight difference from the start weight before and after fitness. In other words, you have wheels weight difference on scales, but you don't have it on suspension, so it should not be present in load capacity.
Afraid not, in the UK the gross vehicle weight is the whole vehicle - as if weighed on scales - 3500kg is actually a legal limit for passenger vehicles - above this and you are into light commercial vehicle requirements.
@@TC-V8 Good point, but is this intended for a UK customer? Currently on Dutch plates I think?
This one was very Lardy Richard! Those wheels look very chunky, maybe some scope there. Bonnet as you say, is the load bed checker plate? Great story on this one for sure. 👍🏴😎
This looks like a really fun build! Keep them coming guys!
A tyre size smaller or narrower also would shave some weight. Glass also weighs a surprising amount maybe change some of the side windows for lexan and also lose the electric windows. Dash components could also come under scrutiny as that weighs a lot too. Seats could also be changed up for lighter, sporty bits. Could be as much as another 100kg in that.
Good points. 👍😀
@@spudproductions7606
Narrower tyres will save a lot of power and wt. In action.
Seperate front and rear motors driving the axels direct mounted to the casings ...a method used in a lot of commercial and HD electric vehicles would allow you to scrap all the gearshifts transfer box and drive shafts 🤔🧙♂️ but as its got coil overs you can up the springing and damping.
I was going to suggest carbon fiber hood, but you beat me to it. However, carbon fiber doors and tailgate would be another thing to look at.
2:53 my favourite moments are when this happens lol.
He does like to pop out of an engine bay 👍😀
The wheels and the bonnet - wheels are heavy!
One thing you missed is the weight of the driver and maybe a passenger with luggage which will be added to the vehicle when the project is finished.
You can lighten the weight of both bumpers, and use lighter weight wheels and tyres. Maybe remove a lot of wiring too.
Nice project! Thanks Richard. 🙂👍
Also use an Aluminium bonnet.
They said at the start they are allowing for 4 passengers, that includes the driver
Good fun 👍👍 ... Jim Bell (Australia)
Carbon fibre bonnet has gotta save a bit. And obvs the rollcage.
Was it Colin Chapman who said, “Simplify, then add lightness”?
Love your work 👍
It was indeed 👍👍
Thanks for the enlightening video. It was nice to see that the diet was successful. It looks (also) really exciting next to Lardy Landy. Looking forward to your episodes about the old white Porsche 356.
It’s silver. Episode coming soon. 👍😀
@@spudproductions7606 Porsche racing silver! Of course - How could I miss that.
You did mention the bonnet, what about the lights, if converted to LED with full removal of all their old assemblies, maybe lighter seats with more carbon fiber and the internal sound insulation with some form of light PVC since the motor and the electrical components are virtually quiet. just a thought.
Well it is for Bikes, Get rid of rear Tray, just a table top with some latch points, Tools under tray, What are Wheel Arch Flares Made of ? Roof Rack Steel or Aluminum ? :)
Here is a Photo of some body elses take, 2 Bikes are @ 45 Deg on back of Ute, I like how Bikes are almost ready to come off when needed, in photo, the "toolbox" in Center, could be 2 More Bikes, with Tools & Spare Forward under ramp for this Style of Racks, i.imgur.com/HZ4Ayvt.jpg
Nice work!
I was about to mention the bonnet.
But with that said, the winch bumper was a distinct feature. If we could recreate it with much less weight, that would be nice, yet retain its original looks
I’m excited about this project. I hope you have the install videos of the motor and batteries. Not every minute detail, but rather a generalization of how components are installed. Do love your videos. CHEERS
Thanks, we plan on a build series for the whole project. 👍😀
@@spudproductions7606I would prefer every minute detail!
Dual smaller drive units in place of axles and prop shafts? That would free up space for batteries under the floor.
Weight is the unseen killer of a lot of vehicles. Motorhome are the best example of being useless because of weight, unless you have a HGV licence and go to a higher weight total. 3500kg is the limit unless you go replate , relicense and modify it otherwise they are payload limited and easy to go illegal as the empty weight is very high to start with.
The weight of the 4 bikes is not 400kgs, it’s probably more like 480kgs. It’s only 80kgs but it all adds up and as you are chasing weight savings I thought it was worth a mention. They INCREASED the production bikes weight last week. Cool project though 😁👍👍
Yes, Stark Futures is showing 118 kg weight for the Varg now. Plus riding gear for 4 people. Going to be interesting to see how they cram 4 full sized bikes into the bed of that Landy, going to be a very tight fit, if they can do it at all.
Totally, the power has increased to 6.5kw for the pack though. There’s the chargers for the bikes as well, being a show truck charging each one on its own wouldn’t be great. I get to find out what it’s like to ride tomorrow 😁👍👍
Carbon fibre bonnet and tailgate? And maybe even carbon fibre doors if their budget allowed.
Thank you, Salute
I dont know how well they would go over in colder/wet weather, but those simple rubber/plastic fenders, seen on Baja Beetle Volkswagens, might be fun and cut some weight. Also removable doors like a volkswagen Thing.
I see a lot of people are mentioning carbon fiber body components.
they might also look cool in a clear coat to go with the black paint.
cool video
thx
BC
Nice idea. 👍👍👍
I wrote at first introductory video about this project that a Ford F-150 Lightning with modified suspension from Raptor: it has charging outlets from factory, best in business AC built in charging unit is 18 kW. This rig is cool and crazy but too porky.
I’m an EV fan, and the motor versus engine and exhaust comparison is pretty stark, but you didn’t make a comparison in size between the gas tank and the batteries. I think the best that we can say is that when you’re talking size, at least today, in an EV, your trading drivetrain size for fuel size. I know that you all are experts at converting gas vehicles to electric vehicles, and you find . nooks and crannies to put the batteries in, but the fact of the matter is that volume wise, the switch in drive train currently is pretty close. And it will continue to be close until battery energy density. Just about doubles I think.
Not Weight-Watchers, more like Watt-Watchers!
If the only things that are going to be carried in the bed is the bikes, remove the entire bed and sides and rear roll cage and replace them with just enough framework to hold each bike which is then integrated structurally with a longer roll cage, that will be big enough to have the bikes inside it, that will form the structure holding the bikes to the car. Skeletonised as Q used to say.
Those tires and wheels are a huge weight detriment, unless that's what the client wants to keep.
Also if you wanted to save weight in other places, replace the windows with plexiglass, and remove whatever sound-deadening is in the doors.
Tyres are very heavy, I think a big saving could be had with less agressive ones.
Any steel racks abd bars like the roof and grill could be changed for aluminium.
If there are airbags in it they could be removed. Side and rear glass could be changed to plastic.
In terms of panels like the bonnet. If CF is too expensive, fibreglass still offers massive weight savings over steel especially if the rigidity of foam is exploited.
GRP bonnet, if the doors are the later steel ones, see if you could get older alloy ones, or even old series 2,3 like your 90.
You could see if lighter tyres as those look like trepador ones which are heavy. Cooper STT or even bfg mt may save 5-10kg per tyre.
I was driving behind a $380k electric coach today (Yutong TCe12). Surely it would be easy to make a better coach than 200m+ range (280kWh) with 300kW-ish motor for a third of a million dollars!
I was wondering if there is more sound deadening panels between the engine bay and the cabin. Definitely not needed anymore.
according to your board, the battery should have an energy density of 214Wh/kg, which seems a bit too optimistic. At least, if it has proper liquid cooling. Also considering that your teslarossa conversion had a battery with an energy density of just 170Wh/kg, according to that other board.
Anyway, you should contact CATL and ask them to provide you with the Qilin battery modules. With a claimed energy density of 250Wh/kg at pack level, you would drop additional 100kg from the 770kg. Or, source the pricey silicon anode batteries from Amprius with 500Wh/kg. Or the same from CATL condensed battery.
I have one at work, chassis is very heavy, always thought an alloy one would transform it.
Replace the bonnet, tailgate, doors, and wheel arches with carbon fiber.
Carbon fibre bonnet & front wings (& if you really wanna go for it, doors as well). Better spec wheels & tyres. Maybe flat bed the rear!
I would say maybe a fibreglass bonnet instead off the heavy old one
Look for a lighter tyre, the present monster mud type would be heavy.
Yep. I think we’ll change the wheels and tyres. They look great but they make a horrible noise when driving, are heavy, make the handling worse and detrimentally effect the range badly.
Man this thing is going to be epic!
Obviously nice to get the weight off but as it’s a Landy did the customer or yourself look into upgrading the carry weight if you couldn’t drop the weight in case customer wanted to keep winch or even put a bigger battery pack in .
Lightweight radius arms. Remove the second auxiliary rear springs in favor of a main and reinforced one. Older alu doors in place ou the current steel ones..
replace those big knobby off-road tires with smaller street tires (Lesss Rolling Resistance!!) and the side nerf bars - how about fabrication peeps to fiberglass panels to replace the bed?? and tailgate?
You're wrong about that bed. A "gray license" vehicle must have at least one cubic meter cargo space. All the rest is by the way.
Stark Varg electric bikes are 119kg each. You've got the bikes at 100 kg each. Cheers.
Always amazes me how much crap those old fashioned oil burners need to smoke the air we breath, while making so much noise for very little efficiency and performance.... disgusting, good riddance and top job lads !
Thanks 👍😀
Great video mate
carbon fibre the doors as well
If money was no option, then it may be possible to replace all body panels with carbon fibre and aluminium. Carbon fibre bucket seats. Aluminium wheels. Strip out the remaining sound deadening. Should realistically be able to get the weight down to 1500kg.
Carbon fiber made using petro chemicals (epoxy).Kinda defeats the object of the electric car .
@@rocklover7437 There are different reasons for choosing an electric car. What nobody can deny is that the lighter the electric car is the more efficient it becomes therefore, using petrochemicals to significantly lighten the car would seem to be a rather novel solution. It may also be possible to used recycled carbon-fibre thereby satisfying even the most fervent member of the green lobby.
@@rocklover7437how do you think tires are made?
@@rocklover7437how do you think batteries are made?
More reasonable, thinner wheels and smaller wheel arches would shed another 100kg easily.
I kinda agree but it just wouldn’t look right.
It has probably been mentioned or it wouldn't be worth the aggro, but, can the roll bar and racks be made from aluminium instead of the iron/steel?
The 65kg that you have available will probably be used for the mounting brackets for the bikes in the bed.
Yep, that’s why I think we might need more weight saving down the road.
Take the doors and bonnet off
a magnesium roll cage and all carbon bodypanels...or a bike and buddy less...that is the owner's choice
Proving that you’re never too old and saggy to rock ‘n’ roll!
Amusingly, I wrote this comment in respect to a recent Iggy Pop clip that had been queued up in my Watch Later folder, just ahead of your video, but somehow added it to your comments section. However, it can see how it’s cross-applicable! Keep up the great work keeping classics on the road.
This needs a plaid drive unit!
Everything needs a Plaid drive unit. 😉👍
@@ElectricClassicCars true!
Lose the roof-rack. That's going to weigh a fair bit. You can also save a bit of weight and improve efficiency by going to a less aggressive tyre.
Obvs, if you improve efficiency, you could use a lighter battery pack.
Edit: I paused the video to write this comment. If I'd watched another 3 seconds I'd have heard you say the customer wants to keep the roof rack!
They could remake the roof rack and roll cages in aluminum, and that might be quite a savings.
@@devenscience8894 There's a reason aluminum is bad for roll cages, they would just crumple up and trap or kill the passengers if it ever rolled.
You wanna use chromoly steel, it's stronger and lighter than basic stainless, and still just as at corrosion resistance. Only downside is that it's pretty expensive, but that's probably a non issue if you're hiring these guy to do an EV conversion.
@@superkirk11 he did specifically state that it was being kept for appearances, so I was just thinking that its use as a roll cage wouldn't be as big a factor.
Why not take away the Axels and put a motor front and rear and use Teslas amazing esp-system? Would be weight- and energysaving?
@@Elbilforeningen because ESP is "Electronic Stability Programme".
Without the axles, you'd have nowhere to attach the wheels, nothing to transfer drive from the motor to the wheels and nothing to hold the chassis off the ground.
Nice.
If the customer only wants the roll cage, roof rack, etc for looks, could you replace them with aluminium (I'm assuming they're steel at present)?
I was thinking something similar with the running boards. Aluminum ones would probably be quite a bit lighter.
There are standards for functional roll bars which I would encourage one to follow. No sense in just using fakes... what happens when one needs it?
Specs are either for mild steel, or chromoly (which uses thinner tubes).
The roof rack could be made out of aluminum.
@@C1Ksdafafdsa980ufsd Nobody is advocating "using fakes". There are aluminium alloys that are easily as strong as mild steel.
Those tyres seem extremely heavy, and add a lot of rolling resistance.
I’ll keep my Doka 16
Yes. That’s what we’re thinking too. 👍
Some sexy Tillett carbon seats would save you a fair bit of weight, surprising how heavy seats in modern vehicles are these days
Yeah bmw e36 seats where 31kg a pop, so I saved 56kg with seats
Yep. The rear Land Rover seat weighs a lot.
@@ElectricClassicCars just tell the build sponsors it’s a safety thing 😂
Put the Bikes and the Passengers in a Trailer...😉
whatever steel parts are available in alloy will save you 2/3 of its weight when exchanged... comes all down to cost really.
And the owner of this vehicle does not seem to have problems in relation to cost 😉😉
Hi, what about the tail gate? How is the bikes going in.🙂 Not sure the plan
Upgrade suspension and wheels for higher weight loads. Would have to be re tested to be replated.
Would switching to independent suspension like in a Tesla save the weight of those huge cast steel live axles?
Africar 6 wheeler lessons.. beam axels are cart horse tech...
Helium in the tyres!
That’s a lot of helium in those big tyres, I’d be worried it’ll float away. 😂😉👍
Amazing how much weight has been taken off
Throwing carbon fiber tubes on instead of the metal tubes of the roof rack would be a few kilos as well!
Tires and wheels. Other options...
We need a video on that 356 please
Coming soon 👍😀
It has a dutch license plate of a 2011 Defender...
Carbon bonnet, carbon seats, carbon here and there…
Bring a scale and weigh each passenger/driver before they get in
Guessing you want to stay 4wd with this, so transfer case / prop will go back in. If so what about going dual small motor instead? Maybe better for efficiency as well.
No need for the transfer box with this conversion and it will still be 4 WD. 👍😀
Remake the roof rack and roll cages in aluminum?
I love these conversions. Do you send these kits to NZ?
Yes. There’s a customer down there called The Surgery who buy kits off us and convert customers cars in NZ.
BIGGER POWER !!!
MORE POWERRR!!!! 😁😉👍
Do you know what wh/kg the batteries are rated at for this project?
What is the roof rack made of? Replace it with aluminum if it’s steel?
Can you not just beef up the suspension instead of removing stuff (that is arguably functional for an off-road focused vehicle) like the bumper / winch and the hitch from the back?
In Australia you can do a GVM upgrade that has engineer approval to get a higher load limit.
Can't exceed 3500 kilos. If you do, it'll require a different type of license to drive.
@@logitech4873 sorry, I'm taking the American perspective here, where tons of people do stuff that is both legal and unsafe to their vehicles.
@@logitech4873 Its not only license, 3500kg is max for passenger vehicle. The car needs to be re-registered as a truck for above 3500kg weights and not all cars be.
@@davideloewen Don't you need any special drivers license to drive ford F-450? Anyone can drive that 14000lbs behemoth?
They'll never get four trail bikes on that bed. Stick them on a trailer and put the towbar back on.
👍👌👍
Is mounting motorcycles sideways an option?
Tesla had problems doing it, by all accounts, so when are you going to convert Tim’s Lotus? 😈
When he goes on holiday and his wife leaves me the garage keys. 🤣😉👍
DELETE Rad, Fan, flywheel, clutch, gearbox, transfer case,prop shafts, F & R Axles,FUEL. & EXH SYSTEMS, ADD 10 kg CF, - BATTS, CONTROLLER, 2 X HYPER 9