Investment Watches - The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
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In this video, I will tackle the polarizing concept of investment watches. We'll take a look at the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to one of the biggest phenomena effecting the watch industry in 2022. What's your take on investing with watches? Please comment your thoughts down below.
0:00 - Intro & Organization
0:43 - Setting the Stage
2:35 - The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
8:40 - My Take
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If you wanna be successful, you most take responsibility for your emotions, not place the blame on others. In addition to make you feel more guilty about your faults, pointing the finger at others will only serve to increase your sense of personal accountability. There's always a risk in every investment, yet people still invest and succeed. You must look outward if you wanna be successful in life.
The first step to successful investing is figuring out your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but is very advisable you make use of a professional like I did. If you get the facts about saving and investing and follow through with an intelligent plan, you should be able to gain financial security over the years and enjoy the benefits of managing your money.
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I'm in my 20's and I've always seen an expensive watch as something you buy and hold onto for many years, if not the rest of your life. I see them as something to hold onto not something to flip when the time is right.
I almost bought a stainless AP 15400 for $90K, with an MSRP around $25K ... but instead I bought a VC Overseas 4500V gold form the boutique at MSRP $54.5K by just waiting a year ... well guess what, 2 years later, the Stainless RO went down by 60% and my VC went up by almost 70% and sells for $89-95K now ... and all I had to do was buy the watch I actually wanted, and not the over hyped "investment" watch.
This is why I watch your channel, you bring out all of the unique watches and brands that aren't mainstream. I love unique stuff.
I personally love watches and am a huge fan of the art and craftsmanship. I believe that the reason people (including myself) care so much about appreciating value and making it an investment is because watches generally come with a pretty steep price tag and people like to think that they aren’t making a stupid financial decision when they buy a time piece that they like
I think people should consider the investment aspect purely in terms of the return they get from use of the watch, rather than what they can re-sell it for.
The same way you’d expect more use from a more expensive but more well made axe. If it stays sharp longer, cuts wood quicker and doesn’t need replacing for a far greater period…the extra expense proved a good investment by way of return of service…not whether you could sell the axe for a profit in however many years.
@@d734-wy8kxif your axe is made by hand from scratch by some god of axes in Japan, pretty sure its value only goes up from there. Supply and demand equilibrium is the key to consider
True. I get my watches as a sentimental value. Got my first Swiss watch, Tissot when I graduated high school and I recently bought a Longines HydroConquest as an accomplishment getting my dream internship. More on the way as I climb up the ladder.
Congratulations again on the featured article. Looking forward to contents like this 👌
Agree with everything you mentioned in this video. This is why the new generation of watch lovers love you. Well, I do! I love your outlook within this industry & the overall mentality you have when it comes to this engineering masterpieces we all appreciate & love! Great work Teddy! One of the best in the game!👍🏽 keep it up
Thank you my friend! AI was my favorite player growing up! See that profile!
@@TeddyBaldassarre 💪🏽 I Love it!! Great taste in watches, even better in Basketball!! Take care!🤙🏽
I’m really getting turned off at the minute by certain shouty TH-camrs bragging about their travelling and private jets and watch boasting, the same ones who complain about Chrono prices not being real, yet go to their sites and lo and behold, they’re advertising those same watches for a premium. It’s good that people like Teddy still do informative content and not the crap they churn out. They know who they are…
you once again surpassed my expectations for your video production :) great to see!
People never seem to talk about the fact that even brands like Cartier have run into situations with so much overstock, unsold inventory that Richmont pulled back and destroyed 500 million euros worth of watches in 2018 to protect their selling price, rather than flood the market. Right now we're seeing a massive transfer of inventory from the AD to the Grey Market, and at some point, all those watches need to be sold. We'll see how long the prices rise, i wouldn't bet that this keeps going more than another year or two.
Too many junks are made!
The Grey market will choke on inventory. Everything is hype, look at brands in the past like Frank Mueller, Hublot and Panerai, where are they now ?
@@1flat681 yeah but you have social media now.
Because of the hype of certain brands in watches, I've been more drawn to brands like Nomos, Glasshutte, and Zenith since it seems like ppl that recognize those watches seem to really enjoy the craftsmanship in watches.
This. It gives me a chance to actually considered other brands, even smaller no name micro brand stuff
Based on what he explained about the specifications of the watch I don't know for sure but if I had to place a bet for what watch it is I would put all my money on the Eric Clapton's Rolex Reference 6263, the “Oyster Albino” Cosmograph Daytona.
If you had the money, you'd definitely buy it because It looks really nice
Exactly
well I usually don't get too excited about other expensive watches. However, l could buy this for my Sons
@@isabellawatson2864 From your statement “ you don't get too excited about other expensive watches...” I’m guessing you’re a big spender
l get that a lot but with smart work and discipline, I have created multiple streams of income for myself from real estate and from blockchain mining network,that makes it so easy for me to afford these little
Really solid analysis and perspective. Thank you for taking a stance
Refreshing video, thanks for your perspective on a very important discussion. Keep up the great content.
Well said. I've been a collector for over 12 years and has over 10 luxury watch brands in my current collection. I'm both happy and frustrated at the same time with the recent price surge. Yes, the value of my collection went up, but it's almost impossible to get watches that I like unless paying for ridiculous amount on the grey market. Sometimes I rather have the prices drop back down (which will lead weed out speculators) so people who enjoy watches can finally acquire them.
What’s the best Starter watch ?
the only things you want to stay cheap are food😁
Interesting approach to the topic. Patek Philippe tiffany dial is a perfect example of shifting hype to other models. Rolex Oyster Perpetual with tiffany dial sky rocketed after this auction (retail 5k and second hand 10x more)
THANKS TEDDY for this contents.
It is a great releife to hear your words about this market situation.
I can really see you are speaking from your soul… a shine into this vast dark sky of speculation!!
THANKS AGAIN TEDDY!!
I am newer to watches, but have been so turned off because of the investment side of it. To each their own, but it's certainly not for me, and it makes me strongly dislike the "investment" watch brands.
Also thank you for the great video as always Teddy!
It is a shame because it was not like this in the past. It is of course important to note that not all of this is the fault of the brands, but they are not victims here either and customer service has taken a hit. The quest to acquire doesn’t have to be easy, but lack of transparency is not a good recipe in the long run.
@@TeddyBaldassarre Agreed completely. It's not 100% the brands fault. To draw a parallel to my focus, it's not Blue Microphones fault that people misuse the Yeti or Shure's fault that people buy the SM7b without understanding it. Regardless of that it still reflects poorly on the brand and taints the reputation because it is perceived in a negative light now. Just like a misused microphone, watch brands that are discussed as investments are frequently presented in such an off putting way that it's hard to look at them without associating those brands with that type of behavior.
Love the parallel to the audio world! The consumers that use your products are unpaid spokespeople for the brands in a way. Both the good and bad. Thanks for watching, my friend!
I am new to watches myself, want one Rolex OP and that would be enough for me for my Formal wear as I work in a Bank, but I guess getting one at retail is impossible in this lifetime 😀 , better go for Aqua Terra is what I have decided now
I have truly enjoyed your channel and objectivity which you frequently share. My query is in some of your discussion points with Kevin O'Leary, outside of the dial appearance, does he not also raise the prospect of a particular watch as an investment? Does this not help perpetuate the thought of getting into watches as investment?
Great video, for me this is the best watch channel on TH-cam. Your recent microbrands video with Kevin O'Leary was the best watch video I've seen in over a year, and has seriously got me wanting to part with some cash.
Teddy when do you sleep!? So much content, such high quality. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments - these "holy grail" brands are unattainable for the average buyer and I would guess are alienating many perspective buyers in the process. I only purchase what I want to wear, enjoy and use. Keep up the great work!
Teddy, what a breath of fresh air balanced by some sound common-sense. Your channel and content is way ahead of the pack.
The current market is absolutely ridiculous (especially for the blinged over-priced models). I've had a couple of older more classic Rolex's (16700 GMT and a 14060M Sub). I sold the GMT to buy the Sub and sold the Sub to buy a Paramotor (of all things).
I never for one minute considered them as investments; I bought them, wore them, abused them and moved on. Of course looking back I would be pushed to buy my original watch back which does make me a bit sad, but watch collecting, like life, is a journey. Now I have a lovely old Omega Speedy Broadarrow, SINN U50, Vertex M100 and a CWC.
I would love to get another Rolex, but am put off by those who wear them as status symbols. That said, there are so many amazing watches out there that I will eventually get something a bit more understated when the time and price are right - like Jaeger-LeCoultre Memovox Deep Sea or a IWC Spitfire Mark XVIII Fliegeruhr perhaps, but a Polar dial Explorer II would also tick the box.
So many nice watches, but not enough time or money ... Keep up the excellent work!
I just started collecting and am enjoying being introduced to all new brands and complications. I find it fascinating the large range of prices that exists for something so small that seats beautifully on your wrist. Since I was a young man until recently I held the belief that jewelry was pointless and boring because it had no real intrinsic value. Because of that I didn’t wear anything flashy because it showed off nothing but in my own opinion said “look at me” which I never needed.
With watches it’s very different. At each watch’s very core it has a true purpose to be a reliable device to keep its wearer on task. It’s a helpful companion that silently waits to be of service like a well polished butler with a heavy royal accent.
From there you can really start to appreciate all the subtle nuances that contribute to making one meticulously hand crafted beauty stand apart and shine on its own brilliantly and distinctly from the rest.
Within the intricacies of each piece there are more intricacies to marvel at and really what becomes the crown jewel of each watch is it’s very own signature way of delivering its unique mixture features and level of quality. I might say it’s a contest in quality like a competition of sorts but that seems too lifeless a description. It’s more like a beauty pageant or a parade showcasing an artisan’s quality in its most condensed and potent elegance considering splitting hairs is the scale by which we evaluate every moving and non moving part of its anatomy.
I feel like when I wear a good quality watch that has been born of careful attention to detail all the way from design to execution it reminds me that precision and exactitude and beauty can be attained for those focused and patient enough to put in the work. It’s as remarkable in its beauty as it is inspiring in its craftsmanship.
All of that to say, should one I own ever shoot up to an artificially inflated value I would sell it and see it as an opportunity purchase a few just as wonderful to expand my collection and my love of the art.
@Whatsapp+➊➋➏➒➌➎➒➐➎➒➍ DM you how? What giveaway? There’s no DM feature on TH-cam. Are you the original content creator?
Excellent, excellent opinion piece. Couldn't agree with you more, I just love watches and am enjoying my hobby. If, I want to make money, that's what the stock market is for.
I think the truly biggest flex is buying at retail those watches that have the lowest market value, because it signals that you have so much money that depreciation doesn’t affect you.
being able to treat your entire watch collection as expenses rather than assets should be a flex in and of itself
@@terencekoh6296 Hell yeah!
This is why I like your videos about new micro brands and less mainstream manufacturers !!
Great content as always, but the editing and graphics with this video feel like a real step up. Awesome video, thanks!! :)
I remember back in 2009-10 people were dumping "assets" like vintage cars, watches, art, etc. to get by in areas like LA/OC. I know I did when I sold a Breitling Nav for 50% less than what I paid for. Market has been in gradual decline and will only continue as people move cash into inflation proof assets... which watches typically dont fall into. Buyers market coming in the next year or 2.
Thank you for your honesty, I will continue collecting watches I like and hopefully my grandkids may enjoy or get cost back in few I can afford, being German I will keep searching for German mostly but looking for best chronograph for my next purchase under $3000
I really like your attitude and appreciate the fact that you are also introducing less-known brands and less expensive watches. And here is my point: Beauty and elegance should NEVER be defined by a brand alone. Beauty and an expensive price MIGHT correlate but they do not have to. I even consider it as embarrassing if a person tries to "prove personality" through a certain brand. F.e.: If you really think that a Rolex Submariner is so special, buy it for its beauty (though I don´t really understand that), but don´t buy it because you simply want to show off and sell it later on for a higher price. So to cut a long story short: I really like your attitude and the objectivity how you present what you really LOVE - and this seems to be watches
I like the investment and hype side of watches because I have found that this creates a situation where there are many absolutely amazing timepieces that are not hyped so you get insane deals. Watches that are many times better than watches that are selling for multiple times more. In an age of hype it’s fun to find secret gems most don’t know about.
I just got into watches myself. I love how complex and unique some of them are and downright beautiful. I think it's a good idea to build a collection of the ones that you like that will also retain or increase in value. As long as you don't need the money you can hold your collection forever but if something unfortunate happens one day at least you're able to get your money back.
For me personally that means Rolex, which I also happen to think are some of the coolest looking watches anyways. As long as you do your research and figure out which models will hold their value the best you just pick the color scheme that suits you the best and then you can start collecting them.
I have been a watch enthisiast for over forty years since childhood and this current trend for me is one of the worst things to happen to the watch industry. It brings a totally different type of consumer ( I refuse to call these people watch enthusiasts as they are just sharks looking for a quick buck) to this and it is not a good direction to be heading in.
And seeing Rolex´s answer to this problem which is to up prices rather than increase supply or make it hard for the secondary market to sell these watches is frankly shocking and shortsighted.
I have owned three Rolex watches in the past and am now totally turned off the brand not only for the sort of investment sharks who buy them but Rolex´s response to the problem.
Same as well for Patek or AP. Both brands I used to admire and now, well I simply am not interested in owning a watch that comes from a company that likes the hype and the sort of people buying the watches.
So for me as a core base enthusiast so many of these brands now have little or no appeal to me any more. Same as my first high end love and my first higher end watch, Omega.
The continual "limited" editions and continual harping on about their connection with space, its all got rather boring.
I jumped off the merry go round 6 years agon and bought a Grand Seiko .
Your content is refreshing as its not all about the hype or profit, you cover exotic and real world which is so unlike so many other channels. Also, unlike so many other watch channels here you are not a walking buffed up ego!
On a completely seperate note I wonder would you consider doing a video on the dark side of high end watches which as we are seeing countless Russian Oligarchs assets being siezed or frozen would be a very timely topic.
I have often wondered about the high end and who many of its customers are. So many, especially now at the hyper inflated prices are from backgrounds that leave a great deal to be desired ethically.
It is something Rolex, AP, Patek and other high end brands always steer clear of talking about for obvious reasons and I know the old tiried excuse that a brand is not responsible for its customers actions comes in but as a purchaser, especially in this day and age I am not keen on wearing a brand who will have unethical people supporting it and getting special considerations because they have the money ( Patek´s one-off customs come to mind!)
great vid, a topic I'm interested in, thank you
I think that something similar happened in the wine Industry several years ago . At some point, everyone was only talking about the Pilar’s of winemaking, the Grand Crus, the most expensive, so the conversation became boring. For me, the best part is finding great producers doing great wines that sell for a reasonable price. Finding value gives me the opportunity to enjoy wines more often and start interesting conversations. I am convinced that the same goes for watches. Finding one that suits your interest and budget is as enjoyable as buying it.
Teddy your channel helped me to connect again to watches like I used to since I was a kid. Never had a friend whom I could talk to about watches and was not able to explore that much this crazy world of watches. Now, because of your channel and other social media platforms I now enjoy this enthusiasm for watches much more and have learnt a lot. Thanks man for always keeping it real.
I read an article from a site TBWS, it was dated 2018 and the Traska diver was going for $400, now they retail for $600.
50% increase in value ain’t bad in 4 years.
It's all about the money. There's plenty of Daytona, AP etc for sale on the second market. If used watches were selling below retail there would be plenty available at the AD.
The reason why it’s selling above retail on the second hand is because you don’t get any in the AD to begin with because of the preferred client list.
@@hlee2 the reason why you don’t get the watches at AD is because ADs prefer to sell the watches to their preferred clients, which are the gray market dealers.
@@hlee2 good point...
As usual Teddy, spot on. Thanks
Here's my truth. Being a collector, enthusiast and investor aren't mutually exclusive. My philosophy on "Toys", i.e luxuries like watches, cars & motorcycles has always been "You have all the toys you like, as long as they are appreciating assets." I have been enjoying watches since I was a young teen in the late 70's, beginning with a Rolex GMT master which I saved for. I haven't always been correct. I've lost money on pieces by Cartier, Franck Muller etc. I always loved Patek's too, but they rarely appreciated unless they were ultra rare minute repeaters and the like. I've generally stuck with Rolex because it never disappoints and I've gotten to be a steward to most of the classics. Sea Dweller, Day Date, Sub and Zenith Daytona. I've never had more than 4-5 watches at a time, but it's a hobby that has funded itself. A Rolex doesn't pander to trend. It isn't a costume. It's a uniform. It never disappoint aesthetically or financially and is ever classic. My 2 cents.
Well done.
Insightful and useful.
Hi Teddy! First, I’d like to thank you for this very interesting and clear video illustrated with relevant figures etc. However, can we get your opinion (video) on some limited edition watches such as the new TAG Heuer x Porsche that is limited to 1500 pieces for example?
Good content.
No watch collector who is building up a portfolio of very expensive pieces will continue for the love of it, if every watch added to the collection is losing value. Believe its rather obvious in this expensive hobby that value retention as a minimum is a must.
One of the main reasons I use this channel as my guiding light to watches is the love you give all watches. You have macro shots of Orients and Pateks, Seikos and APs. You give them the same spotlight, and are honest about where each fit in a collection. Keep up the amazing work!
You're the best Teddy!! Good perspective!!
Teddy over the years I bought vintage Omega watches. As I told you I am from Ohio living in Florida. I love my Omega watches. But this year I have bought two watches. My first was a
Two tone 37mm blue quartz Invicta price $49.00. I am surprising pleased that watch keeps
Excellant time. Thé second watch I just got this week. It is a Seiko green Optimist I paid a total of $650.00. A very substantial watch. It reminds my of a Rolex. I am thinking either a
Ball watch or a Hamilton. I remember Ball Jewelery store in Cleveland. I was very young but
I remember CleveLand at Christmas time. I notice I am open now to other watch companies
I really fell for the Seiko Alpinist watch. So far I am very pleased. This watch band I like with the adjustable clasp. I remember when you started , you have done a great job.
To me the analogy is akin to creating talent via the various talent competitions on TV. Nothing is that easy or convenient. You have to pay your dues. Within any consumer consumption class, some items rise to the peak organically; they make it there based upon inherent qualities above-and-beyond the competition. They don’t do it via an artificial means such as social media hype. Thank you, Teddy.
Teddy is the most likable watch guy on TH-cam.
In my opinion, it's easy to tell that you just like watches in general. That's why you're my go to for information. Just snagged a new piece off your website as well!
9:58 I think this is spot on. Feels like people are obsessed over a monetary value rather than more of a quality/experience thing.
I applaud your even view on this. My concern is the folks we'd want to attract to the hobby, if entering from an investment view but buy at least somewhat to taste, is that if they risk their financial future on this and prices go down, and for most watch segments, they will, we'll have lost them entirely. I'm nearing retirement, only have a couple pieces, looking to add and can now move to next level. I like the idea that for what I'll spend there will always be significant value if I had some disaster, but I'm not buying as investment. I am an engineer. I love mechanical things, still turn my own wrenches, etc. I won't add a watch that doesn't speak to me or add some either useful or interesting function.
Excellent video Teddy!
I love watches because I think they're works of art. I've never bought one as an investment and never will. Id never buy something I think is ugly just because it'll make money
I think you hit the nail on the head talking about the current state of investing, in general. There is a large section of the population that is barely learning about investing, having never experienced a true drop in the market. This would make any 'investment' a solid opportunity to be exploited, (in, hopefully, the shortest time possible). The reality lands closer to your used car analogy. I don't think, as a whole, that the watch collecting community, sees watches as a money maker, but more of an extension or a way to express their fascination in and the joy they get from utilizing their pieces.
I bought GMT in 80s in stock, submariner in 2009 which took a week to arrive. Explorer and DJ all in stock. Visited an AD dealer in 2021 only 2 watches on display, now just waiting lists.
The negative aspect of investment watches shouldn't be too impactful a point for most watch enthusiasts. There really are only the three brands that are just massively in demand and super hard to get at a good price now because of their increasing value, which is a tiny portion of the entire watch market. There are so many brands, so many watches to get enthusiastic about. I love a good rolex, no doubt about it, but if I can just give up the "status" a rolex might offer, I can find just as beautiful and well made a watch from another brand at many different price points. The beautiful shots of a Breitling, Longines, Zenith, all just hammer that point home for me. We're spoiled for choice.
Great take as usual. I think people get emotional and don't look at things objectively as you have. I find the investment concept annoying, but I understand it. I still buy watches I love, and don't get too worked up about it.
Was casually watching when I noticed one of the watch pics shown was mine that I posted on Reddit! I got way too excited haha
I have been collecting watches for 30 years and the current market situation is just plain stupid. In the 30 years I have been collecting I have never bought a single watch, be it a Rolex, Omega, etc. expecting monetary gain . I collect because I love watches and that is how it should be.
Such honesty is impressive
Excellent commentary!!
My beef with hype watches is that they cause people to neglect (Thankfully, for now!) other models in the same sphere or even within the same brand. I am particularly amazed that someone will spend $130K for a basic 5711 on secondary markets. People rarely think about this, but the same money buys you two Patek Calatravas (one in platinum and one yellow gold), A Bulgari Octo Finissimo (steel with the blue dial please!), A Blancpain Villeret Complete Calendar, the most ridiculous Grande Seiko diver of your choice, a Rolex GMT (even at inflated grey market prices), and a trunk-style Louis Vuitton watch box to hold them all (about $7k!). Whats more, after all of that, you would have enough money left over to go ahead and and buy your spouse a Cartier Tank (or two, one gold and one steel) just for fun. Even in the "one watch relative to one watch" comparison, that someone buys a secondary market 5711 rather than a white gold Zeitwerk Date or a Platinum Datograph is just astounding to me. In either case, you would have change left over by the way. At the lower end of the scale, generally speaking, who pays the price people are paying for Rolex sports watches when a company like Moser exists? It is, to be frank, insanity to me.
A lot of it is related to social media and the projection of one's value onto others. I'm not sure if this will ever go away as long there's the Internet. I suspect this phenomenon is here to stay.
Best watch channel hands down!
Thanks Teddy for another great video. I’m curious about your opinion on the current situation in Eastern Europe. Do you think this instability/insecurity might reduce the current hype?
I am not economist, but one thing I was taught about the economy is that it can be a game of morale as it is anything else. When stability and confidence in the market is solid, the market usually responds favorably. That said, we had a crazy last two years of instability with COVID and the watch segment remained strong probably as a byproduct of people finding enjoyment in things rather than experiences as we were locked in, high stimulus packages, and a shift in retail operations among brands that solely operate through brick and mortar. This all considered, if things escalate in Europe that could create different challenges and I think a dramatic downturn in the market could come. That said, I hope peace prevails and it doesn’t escalate further.
This is soooo on the money. I have been fascinated with time pieces as long as I can remember. I just returned from Germany where I visited the Black Forest, coo coo clock center of the universe. Grandfather clocks, and of course watches. I look at the same 5-10 brands, the usual suspects, and drool, knowing that I will probably never own one. But based on info learned by watching your videos I have been able to build a modest collection of watches, the most expensive being $800.00.
I am glad I bought my red sieko cocktail over another brass colored one. The dealer said the brass color one would go up in value but I like the red one. If I still like the brass one I may get it but who knows.
Beautifully articulated as always Teddy. Isaac Newton said it best where what goes up must come down, so I’m curious to see what these usual suspects will do when the market turns & they start scrambling for the consumers & enthusiasts hard earned again. Pardon the pun but only time will tell….
Great video as always Teddy. Quick note, the Daytona sells for $14,550, not $13,150. Perhaps $13,150 was last year's price?
In my humble opinion, the biggest issue is that there are way too much money in the economy when every country is printing them to pay off their debt. When athletes are earning tens of millions every year or every fight. NFT are selling tens of million of dollars and Bitcoin used to be like twenty cents. These watches just become another form of speculative piece. Watches should be bought because you like then and worn to be enjoyed. But on the token it feels bloody good that it’s also appreciating in value
This is a great video teddy. This is the truth.
JUST well said, that's it, Well said!
I was never interested in watches until I considered the idea of wearing a high quality watch theoughout my son's childhood, to have the memory of seeing it in Dad's wrist imprinted in his brain, and thus make it all the more valuable when I finally pass it down to him (along the way of my research, I did develop a genuine -I think- fondness for watches).
That's why I feel zero connection with the idea of watches as financial investments. Selling a watch I bought simply isn't in my plans.
Absolutely spot on!!
ALWAYS great analysis
Thanks Chad!
Thank you so much, sir.
The problem is that those high-end watches huge prices made the low end vintage watch market blow up too, all of the sudden there are more and more sellers and models for sale and the prices are getting higher and higher in the low end vintage watch market to the point some of these watches have unjustified high costs.
You know what buddy, you will survive in the market long through up and down cycles. The price of ultra high-end watches are a function of liquidity, so in a phase of quantitative tightening it would become very difficult. I like the balance you have, so tell me, do you guys sell in Germany? I am considering buying my first chronograph in around 5-6k.
To some extent everyone is swayed by the value of the watch but by what extent. It's hard to draw the line of where it will harm the watch industry and the beauty of the fine watch making profession. It's always about striking the right balance. Conversely, if there is no value associated with the watch, it's hard to feed the professionals who are doing this fine job of promoting the essence of high horology. People collect the watches also to feel that the value has gone up since they have spotted a gem but whether they cash in on it is another matter. But to say you want to get rid of the increasing in value of the watch is ridiculous since it needs that even to the hobbyist or collector. And yes people definitely also consider the resell values of the watches otherwise there would be a surge of people buying Cartier, Chopard, GP, Seiko, Panaerai, etc.
I see watch collecting like traveling, it’s something I do for my enjoyment, I learn from it and I share it with others ! The investment side of it right now I got mixed feelings about it but mostly I don’t like it because of the hype and the kind of people behind it that don’t appreciate watches because of what they are, a mix of art and science! Very good video and keep the good work my friend!
I went through a similar experience as a comic book collector when I was a kid in the 90s. When you stop thinking about your collection as being personally valuable and start thinking of it in terms of how other people value it, you're no longer a collector or a hobbyist. You're an entrepreneur. Being an entrepreneur doesn't make you a bad person, but approaching a sub-culture purely as a capitalist where others are hobbyists causes serious friction.
Let's hope most of these speculators lose their shirts on NFT scams over the next year or two so the watch collecting world can get some of its old spirit back.
Same thing happened with baseball cards in the early 90’s. The industry was ruined because of greed
"When you stop thinking about your collection as being personally valuable and start thinking of it in terms of how other people value it"
That's a very good thing to point out.
And you can even see people asking, why are you collecting this and that, is going to get you a profit?
Yoooo Teddy, let’s get a solid best moonphase watch??! Great Video my guy
do anybody know the name of the glasses that he wears?
I bought my first rolex. it was a datejust. And I was just buying it because I liked the white dial. My next watch was a submariner Rolex from the Grey market (Hulk) and it was just a clean piece. I could not resist myself and bought a OP Yellow and OP Tiffany for a ridiculously high price. And little did I know that the very 3 days later, the watches 2 OPs were discontinued. And out of the blue, my watches have increased so high in value. So after experiencing the profit you might say, (but I did not sell any watch yet) I am feeling positive about investment idea. But those people who are against watch investment, have not witnessed a profit. So there opinion is biased. Sooner or later, the values of the watches will go down. when the people will be bored about speaking about the Hulk or OP tiffany. But it will take a long time still.
Very good article on Watches
I don't mind people buying them for investment or resale, as long as every watch enthusiast is able to walk in a boutique and purchase or order the watch within a reasonable timeframe.
I am relatively new to purchasing luxury watches. I don't consider myself a collector because my goal isn't to have a collection; however, in my passion for owning different watches I have certainly ended up with a much higher number of them than other people I know.
I buy watches for one reason, with one additional requirement - which I don't consider a "reason", but more of a safeguard. I buy watches because I like them and I want to wear them (which is based on aesthetics, craftsmanship, engineering, artistry, etc; however, I also like a watch with a good story behind it). I do not buy them with the intention to flip, or with the intention of making money. The requirement is that I try to purchase ones that will retain a reasonable percentage of their value over a long period of time.
I think of it like a car. I'm going to buy a Honda not only because it is reliable, but because I can sell it for more than a used GM if and when I need or want to sell it.
If I ever lose my job and need to pay the mortgage, it is nice to know that my $5000 watch may still be work $3-4k instead of $500.
Have to agree with a lot of what you saying in this video. Those watches that have gone up in value are comparable to an expensive handbag, certain people just like to be seen with them and to me this makes the watch a fashion accessory, nothing to do with the love of watches. It's actually put me off buying a Rolex, was after an OP39 or a 39mm Explorer, but since getting Rolex out of my head I have bought a Grand Seiko and my new Omega is on order and due shortly.
I'm not new to owning watches, but the current market is quite disappointing. I've reached a point in my life for a milestone watch and I was looking at a Rolex. Not being able to preorder and configure the exact DJ I want is crazy. I was offered a Rolex recently from an AD, but I don't want to "settle" for a watch because that's what's available. It's my hard earned money and I'm not in it to play these AD "games". So I've decided to move on to Omega and Breitling, because I love a few of their models and I can at least obtain them.
This is why I bough the Trilogy Seamaster.
The world of watches is sooooo vast that you really won’t have a problem finding something else just as good and less expensive. I can afford a Rolex sub but fell in love with the black bay 58 925. Buy what you love for yourself and not for the perception you want to convey to others.
I think you purchase them just for the love of them. They're art pieces, a statement. An accessory that further compliments your style apart from its practical use.
Having watched some TH-cam videos on watch trading a lot if not, most of these "investment watches" never find their way to an end customer. They just jump from one trader to the other. I for one have redirected my attention to independent and micro-brands.
I absolutely hate where most of the watch market is going right now. Id love to just go into a boutique and buy a watch. When I started getting into watches (about 7 years ago) you could go into a store and buy the watch you want. Sure you had to wait for very specific models, but it was overall a very straightforward and enjoyable experience.
Nowadays you can't get any Steel Rolex, Patek, or AP in a store. You have to search for them and often have to make deals with people that don't feel very professional. And you always have to wonder if you can afford to wait another 2-3 months. Most Rolex are now worth about 20% more than of September last year. Price Jumps like this make searching for a watch feel more stressful than enjoyable
“You buy the watch because you enjoy it”, I think should be the focus. I love seeing the craftsmanship and creativity of some of the microbrands.
Watch collecting for the love of horology, the heritage, the enjoyment and happiness they bring is very noble. Watch investors might as well be trading pork belly futures. Zenith's chronographs have 3 subdials, two pushers, a crown and a black bezel.
Only similar to 5,000 other chronographs. If I see one more Rolex. I'll gouge my eyes out with a screwdriver.
That's exactly how it should be! Just bought an IWC despite knowing it will lose about 20%-30% of its value after I leave the boutique, but do I care? Because it's the coolest watch I've owned in my life and I enjoy it so much. I wear it and I don't care about scratches or other degradations and if I'd ever sell it, it has lived a life outside of a safe deposit box.
totally agree, today watch market has made the watch lover unpleasant feeling of very long waiting list and difficulty to get the watch from the new comer who see this as a asset to make a profit. I see in the market today a lot of people doesn't discuss about how the beautiful, function, finish, technology in the watch, they only talk about in a month price will increase. My dad is watch collector for around 20 years ago, when we come to watch conversation we talk only how the beautiful and the function and story of the watch. but when I talk with my age generation about the watch they focus only price.
Most excellent video.
Thank you, Terry.
Thank you so much for making this video Teddy. I'm 37 years old. My whole life I dreamed of owning a brand new, entry level Rolex. Now that I can finally afford one at retail, "flipping culture" has over inflated the price so much I can no longer buy one. As a result, I have now discovered other great brands like Sinn and Longines. If Rolex would have allowed me to buy at retail, I never would have discovered those brands. Now, as a result of Rolex becoming over inflated, my view of the brand has become poisoned to where I only see it as an over hyped brand, as opposed to the high quality brand with a rich history that I should view it as. Hopefully industry professionals see this video.
I am right there with you at 39 years old. I have been wearing a watch since 2nd grade and have always had an eye for Rolex and Omega growing up due to movies of the 90's and 00's. If it weren't for Teddy's videos, I too wouldn't know anything about other brands that have just as high of quality, possibly higher, and I have shifted my brand focus entirely. While I would love to acquire a Rolex Platona with the chocolate subs, I would be just as happy with a Longines, Omega or even good looking Tissot. I have never been about status, but rather functionality and what makes me happy. In today's world, I feel you not have an acceptance culture by wearing the top three on your wrist as some type of passage into success and status.
You can still get one at retail. Just have to have patience and visit your AD a few times. The problem is people want a watch now. Go enjoy your Longines and live life and you’ll ge the call some day
Give em a bloody nose, go Omega. I did and have no regrets whatsoever. 👌
@@TheSkatereel I've been thinking about doing that.
@@nastang87xx Thanks I've been thinking about that. I'm leaning towards Sinn.
I purchase things because I need and enjoy. So I do this with research and long term aspirations. I was underwhelmed when I first held a Daytona. It was hard to read and overpriced. This led me to purchase a Sinn 556A. Sometimes simplicity is best.
This was a well made video you put out about the concept of “investment watches.” This same behavior we have witnessed has been replicated in the broader consumer market. What we are seeing is an acceleration of many luxury consumer goods being placed into a category of investment grade. This has led to a rapid raise in prices in the luxury goods market. This type of speculative behavior has accelerated during the pandemic. Should there be investment grade watches, sure there needs to be watches with that kind of criteria. We have investment handbags, houses, autos, and precious metals. What we need is a reality check in what is considered investment grade and what is considered just a normal luxury product. This type of consumer behavior has ripple effects throughout the broader market as products below investment grade start to price increases. The only way any of this will get under control is through education such as this video.