yo Doodlebud, thank you for your videos and your energy you radiate. going through a rough patch and wanted to let u know that (and Im sure im not only talking for me) you are a daily source of comfort. thank you Bud!
You are far and away the most thorough & interesting reviewer on TH-cam and I have learned so much on my pen journey on your site. Thank you & please keep it up.
I really enjoy your channel. I watch it now more than Brian Goulet's. His channel is excellent, too, but your calming "radio" voice put yours in the top spot. You have the perfect voice for videos. 😊
A few observations: My 823 seals extremely well; I have a few inks that I like a lot better after some of the water has evaporated out and the ink darkens up a bit from concentration (kon-peki is a good example). This doesn't happen in my 823 in the time it takes my other pens. The other thing with my 823 is that ink seems to have a lot more surface tension when it is in there. It doesn't coat the sides at all; it just defies gravity where the air bubble doesn't want to move at all. Also, I feel that most of the 823's sealing comes from the ink shut off/ fill plunger. As always, I appreciate you sharing your experimentations and findings.
He didn't ensure there was an equal amount of ink in the reservoir. The 823 put down way more ink than the Wing Sun, and both pens started with closed seals. This is a very sloppy "test."
Seriously? I must have the world's most defective 823. Mine has hard start if i don't use it for few days. It will start flowing again but will crap out again. I see comments like this and don't get it. Whole reason I got the 823 so many people have about it. Mine has sucked since day 1. Dries out, runs dry feed can't keep up. Sunning ink that came with it. None of my other vac fillers do that. Penider twin tank, homosapien, even TWSB all out perform my 823.
Very interesting results. I think this speaks to the quality of the pens and your own ability to find and fix things. I have a couple of pens that don't seal well and instead of fixing them, I just put them away in the case of shame 😂
Perhaps the valve in the Wingsung does not completely seal off the ink from the top chamber and this when you went to do the dot test ink flowed into the section?
That is a possibility. I'm not too sure it would make a huge difference however. Pens that dry out can have all sorts of filling systems. A piston pen for example doesn't have the ability to shut off the ink reservoir like on a vac. Yet, a piston pen can have a nib dry out problem, which stems from a poor sealing cap. What I did with the 699 is turned it from a poor sealing cap to a great sealing cap. Before the modification the 699 would be bone dry after 2 weeks. The main factor in nib dry out is cap seal not ink supply. I have some pens that seal so well, I've left them with an empty cartridge so it's only the ink in the feed left. I'll leave the pen like the for months and it writes up immediately because the cap seal is very good. That would actually be the way todo the test. Remove the ink chamber all together as a variable. Clean and dry out a pen, then only dip test the pen to saturate the feed. Then cap the pens like that and find out if the feeds stay wet or not 3 months later. If one dries out the only cause would be cap seal. In the repair video I did a vacuum test on both pens after 699 modification. The 699 did even better than the 823 in that test. So the results in this test align with the results in the first test
Same, I daily carried a 699 for a couple of years until it developed a crack. Still one of the most favorite pens I’ve ever owned, but the ink clinging to the barrel was always the one thing that annoyed me about it.
Umm...didn't you accidentally grind a bit of your 823 section away when you thought you were working on the Wing Sung? You might have actually damaged the seal on your 823 when you did that. I did a similar (if not actually longer) period of non-use years ago with my 823. The Iroshizuku Kon-Peki ink in my feed was a bit darker, but the pen wrote just fine.
Of all my fountain pens, the best at not drying out are my Wing Sung 601s and a Wing Sung 618 (I like Parker 51-style hooded nibs). They are absolutely dependable. They are also my travel pens and my primary daily-carry pens. I see that the Hongdian C1 is in your list of favorite Chinese mail-order pens. I like them a lot, too. I find them elegant, nice in the hand, and excellent writers. I have given them to friends, who found them delightful. I haven't had them long enough for them to equal (or surpass) the Wing Sung 601 or 618. I've had them write for three years without refilling using Quink and J. Herbin "Orange Indien" ink (and the Herbin inks evaporate relatively quickly in other pens that I have tried them in).
Doodlebud: tinkers with WingSung 699 for fun on camera Owners of 699: actively trying to replicate so they can brag how it's better than the Pilot 823 Everyone else: planning to get 699 and upgrade it too
It's a decent pen except for the cap seal. It's a tiny detail they overlooked when they replicated the 823, but its a big deal. When something is made it should be the best version of that thing it can be, even if it's cheap. All it takes is attention to detail 🧐
It was poorly done. The valves were shut off and he didn't ensure the reservoir was filled. Given how much more ink the 823 put down, it's reasonable to think the reservoir was near empty. Sloppy work.
Wow. Consider me surprised. I've always wanted an 823 but knowing it doesn't seal as good as any of the pens in my collection while still costing more than them as well is going to have me looking elsewhere. Thanks for all of your tinkering Doodlebud; you're the Batman that Gotham deserves.
You're gonna write off the 823 because it dries up a little after three months and it writes fine if you open the valve for a moment? I mean okay, but you're missing out.
I would be interested to know if storing a pen nib up vs. on its side makes a difference to dryout. My experience says that nib up causes dryout more quickly.
I’m tempted to try this test on pens I have. But then I’d have to set aside two pens and not use them for months. Thanks for the sacrifice Doodlebud, it’s an interesting video.
the reason for the splochyness of the inks inside the 699's barrel, i wonder it could be excess application of silicone lubricate? the excessive and inbalance silicone left over on the inner wall of the barrel causing that ink splots you saw. Sorry i dunno how to spell splotss :)
Interesting test. I wonder what would have happened if you didn't fix the Wingsung 699 and tested it. I think that would have been a more fair testing of both pens. I'm glad to see that your fix really helped though, thanks for sharing the results :) I really like the tissue paper tip for finding out the wetness of a nib, I think that's a better way to find out instead of dragging your finger over ink scribbles :)
Being fair, this could also mean that the Pilot seals better both chambers and no ink is leaking from the main one to the secondary. You should also measure the milliliters of ink left in the fountain pen.
The ink is wetting the sides of the barrel on the 823, but not the 699. Is this because the 699 has grease transfer and the 823 does not? Different piston lubricants?
Interesting conclusion for a 3 month test. I also wonder what the manufacturing difference between these two barrels which makes that difference of ink coating flow. Smooth versus coarser milling? Without ink they both look pretty similar? Curious.
I have a Twsbi that does the same thing, but comes with a warning to not expose the pen to alcohol. I don’t own a Wing Sun so don’t know if it’s similarly vulnerable, but thought I would mention it.
@@InksplatOops you are probably correct. The application I am referring to used isopropyl alcohol as a coolant for milling aluminium samples for analysis. The plasticiser from the brand new storage bottles affected the analysis results for a while but once the plasticiser "wore off" the readings could be trusted. I would recommend thorough cleaning with normal cleaning soap (dish cleaning liquid). Conversely, a bit of blotchiness is more of an aesthetic issue than anything else and putting up with that for a bit is no big deal.
@@konradyearwood5845 that’s much more expertise with plasticisers than I can claim. 😅 I bet you are correct about the pens. My Twsbi Eco is a persnickety princess of a pen, the one time I used a drop of dish soap cleaning it, the piston got stuck. Eventually pushed it loose with a paper clip which introduced some scratch marks that collect more ink splotches. My experience with the Twsbi seems anomalous, but I’m not inclined to buy another one to see if it’s any better.
@@InksplatOops interesting observation regarding the scratching and seizing of your TWISBI. Older pneumatic valves were lubricated with oil so it was introduced into the air stream. The newer technology (post the 1990s) nearly all pneumatic valves used low friction materials and oil would actually cause them to seize. This is probably why silicone O-rings and oil is used in these pens. Completely different to rubber O-ring technology. BTW, I love the way you describe the temperament of your pen. Many of them do need taming and I find the likes of Doodlebud fantastic sources for solutions. I have resurrected many pens using the lessons Doodlebud and Doug Rathburn impart.
Interesting test. How much ink was in the nib section chamber of both pens when you started the test? Were both pen’s valves opened to allow ink to fill the nib section chamber and then closed?
The pens were filled, valve close, very quick writing sample, then caps on. If you watch the repair video I did on the 699 I used my vacuum chamber to test the seal and it was better than the 823 after the modification
@@DoodlebudCould the difference be explained by the quality of the seal between the section and the barrel? If the Wing Sung was allowing ink to leak out of the barrel, that would keep more ink in the section, right?
@@peterf2023 If the seal the 699 did that then I wouldn't have had nib dry out issues to begin with as it would be continually supplied with ink. Both pens do run dry if you don't back off the plunger to replenish the ink from the main reservoir. I did a vacuum test between the 2 pens in the first video after I modified the 699 to improve the seal and it performed better than the 823. So it doesn't surprise me it did very well with this test after the modification.
My Wingsung 699 seals good without modification, but the ink in the barrel behaves the same. I have the clear version and it makes the diamine oxblood look like it's coagulating. Not what I was going for, but could be worse.
I have 4 Wing Sung 699 pens and have noticed the same thing you pointed out with regard to how the ink looks splotchy in the barrel. However, I have only seen that splotching with brown ink. I also see the same thing happening with my Wing Sung 3013 when I use the brown inks. My experience is limited to the inks I have on hand Schaeffer, Noodlers, Colorverse and Monteverde) but it seems odd.
Summary is simple, chinese pens are pretty good (especially for start), they are cheap enough to not be afraid to tinker with them and can be a decent writer at the same time. And I must say, that's a pretty interesting and cool hobby, especially nowadays when everything is electronic. Pen and paper simple, yet powerful tools)
Thanks for doing that, I found it interesting. I love my ws699, haven't tried the pilot 823 but I love my e95s, love the Iroshizuku inks,so I'm biased in favor of pilot. I just can't quite overcome the 16x value factor of the 699 vs the 823.
Didnt you accidentally grind away part of the section on the 823 on a prior video? Wouldn't that affect these results? My pilot custom 92 seals perfect for months and I feel the 823 should seal just as well
Doodlebud, what about the influence of the seal from the shutoff vavle? If the pilot has a better seal then it would not let ink in comparatively if the wingsung has a poor seal then the feed would continue to receive ink. This would throw off the cap seal test. How could you confirm or compare the shutoff vavle seals?
I've tested those seals with my vaccum test beforehand. Also if the 699 was leaking from the main reservoir to the lower I wouldn't have been having the nib dry out issues I was having before since new ink would be continually supplied.
@@JerryCarter-xu6rs I thought it would do well but not this well. But like most things when it comes to sealing, a tiny difference can have a significant impact.
(Edit: after writing this comment I read your answer to a similar one). This is so interesting. Did you consider the possibility that the plunger seal on the Pilot might be better, contributing to the difference? Would you consider repeating the test with the valve open on both pens? I may be wrong, but I remember a video from Chrisrap 52 addressing his experience with his 823, I think, drying up when stored with the valve closed, and not so when stored with the valve open. (By now he has released so many videos, I don’t know how long it would take me to look it up)
I strongly question these results. Since the valve is closed, wouldn't that just imply that the seal is better on the Pilot? If the seal is less strong on the wingsung, then it wouldn't just be the ink in the feed that you're testing- it would be whatever seeped in from the reservoir. I think you need to measure ink levels as well. Possibly you could measure the pen empty, full, then after three months to see if there's a difference.
I've tested the seal on the 823 & 699 seperately before this test to see if they seal off and they both do. So it's testing dry out of the ink left in the lower reservoir. In the 699 modification video I vacuum tested both cap seals and the 699 did better than the 823 so this test alignes with those results as well. It's showing the modification to improve the cap seal significantly improved the cap seal on the 699. The 823 is still good, but the modification to the 699 made a very noticeable difference. Also if the plunger seal was leaking it would be always supplying ink to the lower reservoir in the 699 and I wouldn't have been having nib dry out issues to begin with.
I bought the wingsun699 to see if the size fits my grip (in order to upgrade to the pilot). I loved the pen but after the first month of daily use the pen started burping ink into the cup, when left on the desk horizontally. I put some silicon grease, trying to avoid the breathing hole but nothing. So I think that I would prefer the dryer one 😂
Hi DB! Just goes to show that with a tiny bit of work and ingenuity, you can make the Wing Sung 699 seal better than the pricey Pilot. Both are mighty fine pens in my opinion! One is just a LOT less expensive, but it doesn't have a gold nib, either.
Interesting. Now I have to go back and rewatch the 699 review and find out what you did to it. With all honestly, I purchased two 699's that were defective, both of them. The threads to the barrelI and cap did not screw properly. I desisted.
Most of the pilot's price is probably on the gold nib to be honest. If you buy a premium gold nib as good as the 823's and add it on to the wingsun 629's cost, you'd arrive at the same price give or take $25 or so.
@@nunyabisniz8047 Not quite. The WingSung 699 is available with 14k gold nib for around 120 to 130 €, so the Pilot costs still over two times more. Btw, here even chinese fountain pens are a bit pricey; the gold for a nib is around 16 €...
Hmm, thought I had that already answered. Anyway, @@nunyabisniz8047 Wingsung 629 is available for around $ 120, the here shown 699 for around $100 to $130 with 14k gold nib, depending on branding and nib options. Price of gold (plain material) on the markets is around $20 for one nib and gold is pretty easy to manufacture. The pilot is about around the double in prize in Europe.
The test was interesting but if you want to be more scientific about it, you need to remove another variable: the valves. If the valves work as intended, very little ink should flow from the reservoir to the feed. In that case, you would expect a similar performance to what you saw in the 823. If the valve itself has a poor seal, that means that more ink goes from the reservoir to the feed, even if the pen itself is evaporating, more ink from the reservoir is entering it, so it remains wetter. The only real way to test the seal is to take a very accurate weight measurement instead of writing samples.
I have tested the valve with my vacuum test. It seals the main reservoir off very well. A regular scale wouldn't be able to measure the small amount of evaporation at the level we're trying to detect. Also, I wouldn't have had nib dry out issue that I had before I did thr work to improve the cap seal if the shut off valve was leaking and supplying a flow of new ink to the nib
yo Doodlebud, thank you for your videos and your energy you radiate. going through a rough patch and wanted to let u know that (and Im sure im not only talking for me) you are a daily source of comfort. thank you Bud!
Glad I could help
You are far and away the most thorough & interesting reviewer on TH-cam and I have learned so much on my pen journey on your site. Thank you & please keep it up.
This poorly controlled "test" demonstrated just the opposite.
I really enjoy your channel. I watch it now more than Brian Goulet's. His channel is excellent, too, but your calming "radio" voice put yours in the top spot. You have the perfect voice for videos. 😊
A few observations:
My 823 seals extremely well; I have a few inks that I like a lot better after some of the water has evaporated out and the ink darkens up a bit from concentration (kon-peki is a good example). This doesn't happen in my 823 in the time it takes my other pens.
The other thing with my 823 is that ink seems to have a lot more surface tension when it is in there. It doesn't coat the sides at all; it just defies gravity where the air bubble doesn't want to move at all.
Also, I feel that most of the 823's sealing comes from the ink shut off/ fill plunger.
As always, I appreciate you sharing your experimentations and findings.
Oh hey, you changed/upgraded your watch! (Thanks for the video; grateful for all your reviews/tests)
I was sent this one by Kospet and I'm thoroughly impressed especially considering the price point.
my 823 has been inked up for the past two years and it never hard starts even after months of sitting
He didn't ensure there was an equal amount of ink in the reservoir. The 823 put down way more ink than the Wing Sun, and both pens started with closed seals.
This is a very sloppy "test."
Seriously? I must have the world's most defective 823. Mine has hard start if i don't use it for few days. It will start flowing again but will crap out again. I see comments like this and don't get it. Whole reason I got the 823 so many people have about it. Mine has sucked since day 1. Dries out, runs dry feed can't keep up. Sunning ink that came with it. None of my other vac fillers do that. Penider twin tank, homosapien, even TWSB all out perform my 823.
Oh man has it been 3 months already since you started this test?? Time keep accelerating, lmao. Awesome to see how big of a difference your fix made!
I thought it would do better than before but not better than the 823!
Very interesting results. I think this speaks to the quality of the pens and your own ability to find and fix things. I have a couple of pens that don't seal well and instead of fixing them, I just put them away in the case of shame 😂
Some cap seals are easy to fix like this one, others are difficult to find an elegant solution
An idea to standardize the dot test - you can use a metronome app that specifies a specific rate and continue to use that rate for each experiment
Perhaps the valve in the Wingsung does not completely seal off the ink from the top chamber and this when you went to do the dot test ink flowed into the section?
That is a possibility. I'm not too sure it would make a huge difference however. Pens that dry out can have all sorts of filling systems. A piston pen for example doesn't have the ability to shut off the ink reservoir like on a vac. Yet, a piston pen can have a nib dry out problem, which stems from a poor sealing cap. What I did with the 699 is turned it from a poor sealing cap to a great sealing cap. Before the modification the 699 would be bone dry after 2 weeks. The main factor in nib dry out is cap seal not ink supply. I have some pens that seal so well, I've left them with an empty cartridge so it's only the ink in the feed left. I'll leave the pen like the for months and it writes up immediately because the cap seal is very good. That would actually be the way todo the test. Remove the ink chamber all together as a variable. Clean and dry out a pen, then only dip test the pen to saturate the feed. Then cap the pens like that and find out if the feeds stay wet or not 3 months later. If one dries out the only cause would be cap seal. In the repair video I did a vacuum test on both pens after 699 modification. The 699 did even better than the 823 in that test. So the results in this test align with the results in the first test
Wow! I really enjoyed this and I’m stoked to start trying some of these tissue tests with my own pens. Very fun. Thanks for this 👍🏽
Tissue test is the best to checking ink flow when tuning a nib too. Simple, cheap, and easy to see visual queue.
Yes to that splotchy clinging to the barrel of the 699. Thought it was the ink at first. Thanks for that
Same, I daily carried a 699 for a couple of years until it developed a crack. Still one of the most favorite pens I’ve ever owned, but the ink clinging to the barrel was always the one thing that annoyed me about it.
Umm...didn't you accidentally grind a bit of your 823 section away when you thought you were working on the Wing Sung? You might have actually damaged the seal on your 823 when you did that. I did a similar (if not actually longer) period of non-use years ago with my 823. The Iroshizuku Kon-Peki ink in my feed was a bit darker, but the pen wrote just fine.
Need another 3 month test! The valve should have been left open the entire 3 months - THAT would be apples to apples.
Ava he needed to ensure the reservoir was filled. That sometimes requires a tap.
I'm glad I'm not the only person calling him out.
Happy New Year, dear doodlebud! Keep your videos coming. Love you!!!
Of all my fountain pens, the best at not drying out are my Wing Sung 601s and a Wing Sung 618 (I like Parker 51-style hooded nibs). They are absolutely dependable. They are also my travel pens and my primary daily-carry pens.
I see that the Hongdian C1 is in your list of favorite Chinese mail-order pens. I like them a lot, too. I find them elegant, nice in the hand, and excellent writers. I have given them to friends, who found them delightful. I haven't had them long enough for them to equal (or surpass) the Wing Sung 601 or 618. I've had them write for three years without refilling using Quink and J. Herbin "Orange Indien" ink (and the Herbin inks evaporate relatively quickly in other pens that I have tried them in).
Doodlebud: tinkers with WingSung 699 for fun on camera
Owners of 699: actively trying to replicate so they can brag how it's better than the Pilot 823
Everyone else: planning to get 699 and upgrade it too
It's a decent pen except for the cap seal. It's a tiny detail they overlooked when they replicated the 823, but its a big deal. When something is made it should be the best version of that thing it can be, even if it's cheap. All it takes is attention to detail 🧐
Particularly intriguing test results given the extremely high reputation of the 823.
It was poorly done. The valves were shut off and he didn't ensure the reservoir was filled. Given how much more ink the 823 put down, it's reasonable to think the reservoir was near empty. Sloppy work.
If you want a pen that doesnt lose ink the only real choice is a twsbi eco or vac 700 model. The orings on the cap prevent evaporation loses.
@@edisontrent5244 Those do perform very well. I have a few other like that too. The new Gravitas Pocket pen has an oring and also seals extremely well
cool, I liked this fix and test. Great job on fixing that seal so thoroughly.
Very insightful! Thanks for the work you do, Mr. Dood.
Once again the details are what make us happy!
And that time travelling harp...
It was funny you could see my busted nail instantly heal LOL
4:22 for some real magic !
Wow. Consider me surprised. I've always wanted an 823 but knowing it doesn't seal as good as any of the pens in my collection while still costing more than them as well is going to have me looking elsewhere. Thanks for all of your tinkering Doodlebud; you're the Batman that Gotham deserves.
It didn't take much adjustment to improve the 699 drastically. Goes to show how much the little details matter.
You're gonna write off the 823 because it dries up a little after three months and it writes fine if you open the valve for a moment? I mean okay, but you're missing out.
Maybe the valve of the wing sun does not close good so the stay wet?
The splotching may well be the silicone in the barrel. I had the same “issue” with my clear 823. Once I cleaned the barrel a bit, it was fine.
That messy ink in the barrel speaks to me of oils left behind in the barrel
Excellent demonstrations with these pens. This is an enjoyable video.
RS. Canada
the ink sticking to the barrel , doesnt is happen when there is too much silicone grease ?
I would be interested to know if storing a pen nib up vs. on its side makes a difference to dryout. My experience says that nib up causes dryout more quickly.
I’m tempted to try this test on pens I have. But then I’d have to set aside two pens and not use them for months. Thanks for the sacrifice Doodlebud, it’s an interesting video.
the reason for the splochyness of the inks inside the 699's barrel, i wonder it could be excess application of silicone lubricate? the excessive and inbalance silicone left over on the inner wall of the barrel causing that ink splots you saw. Sorry i dunno how to spell splotss :)
Interesting test. I wonder what would have happened if you didn't fix the Wingsung 699 and tested it. I think that would have been a more fair testing of both pens. I'm glad to see that your fix really helped though, thanks for sharing the results :) I really like the tissue paper tip for finding out the wetness of a nib, I think that's a better way to find out instead of dragging your finger over ink scribbles :)
Before fixing the 699 it was pretty bad. That's why I did the video identifying the cause of the issue, then the fix, then the test
@@Doodlebud Hopefully they will fix the problem because it has the potential to be a good pen :)
My 699 valve doesn’t shut off. You’ve probably checked yours to make sure it’s working as intended, otherwise it can throw off the sealing test result
Being fair, this could also mean that the Pilot seals better both chambers and no ink is leaking from the main one to the secondary.
You should also measure the milliliters of ink left in the fountain pen.
I've already tested the shut valve seal. It doesn't leak down. Also if it did leak, I wouldn't have the nib dry out in the first place with the 699
@@DoodlebudGood point!
The ink is wetting the sides of the barrel on the 823, but not the 699. Is this because the 699 has grease transfer and the 823 does not? Different piston lubricants?
Interesting conclusion for a 3 month test. I also wonder what the manufacturing difference between these two barrels which makes that difference of ink coating flow. Smooth versus coarser milling? Without ink they both look pretty similar? Curious.
Nifty experiment. Come over for a BBQ any time you're in Australia. I could talk with you for hours. All the best for '25.
That ink blotchiness in the Wing Sun could do with the plasticiser that coats certain plastics at manufacture. Isopropyl alcohol removes it with time.
I have a Twsbi that does the same thing, but comes with a warning to not expose the pen to alcohol. I don’t own a Wing Sun so don’t know if it’s similarly vulnerable, but thought I would mention it.
@@InksplatOops you are probably correct. The application I am referring to used isopropyl alcohol as a coolant for milling aluminium samples for analysis. The plasticiser from the brand new storage bottles affected the analysis results for a while but once the plasticiser "wore off" the readings could be trusted. I would recommend thorough cleaning with normal cleaning soap (dish cleaning liquid). Conversely, a bit of blotchiness is more of an aesthetic issue than anything else and putting up with that for a bit is no big deal.
@@konradyearwood5845 that’s much more expertise with plasticisers than I can claim. 😅 I bet you are correct about the pens.
My Twsbi Eco is a persnickety princess of a pen, the one time I used a drop of dish soap cleaning it, the piston got stuck. Eventually pushed it loose with a paper clip which introduced some scratch marks that collect more ink splotches. My experience with the Twsbi seems anomalous, but I’m not inclined to buy another one to see if it’s any better.
@@InksplatOops interesting observation regarding the scratching and seizing of your TWISBI. Older pneumatic valves were lubricated with oil so it was introduced into the air stream. The newer technology (post the 1990s) nearly all pneumatic valves used low friction materials and oil would actually cause them to seize. This is probably why silicone O-rings and oil is used in these pens. Completely different to rubber O-ring technology.
BTW, I love the way you describe the temperament of your pen. Many of them do need taming and I find the likes of Doodlebud fantastic sources for solutions. I have resurrected many pens using the lessons Doodlebud and Doug Rathburn impart.
@@konradyearwood5845 thanks for the Doug Rathburn Recommendation!
Interesting test. How much ink was in the nib section chamber of both pens when you started the test? Were both pen’s valves opened to allow ink to fill the nib section chamber and then closed?
The pens were filled, valve close, very quick writing sample, then caps on. If you watch the repair video I did on the 699 I used my vacuum chamber to test the seal and it was better than the 823 after the modification
@@DoodlebudCould the difference be explained by the quality of the seal between the section and the barrel? If the Wing Sung was allowing ink to leak out of the barrel, that would keep more ink in the section, right?
@@peterf2023 If the seal the 699 did that then I wouldn't have had nib dry out issues to begin with as it would be continually supplied with ink. Both pens do run dry if you don't back off the plunger to replenish the ink from the main reservoir. I did a vacuum test between the 2 pens in the first video after I modified the 699 to improve the seal and it performed better than the 823. So it doesn't surprise me it did very well with this test after the modification.
My Wingsung 699 seals good without modification, but the ink in the barrel behaves the same. I have the clear version and it makes the diamine oxblood look like it's coagulating. Not what I was going for, but could be worse.
How smooth is the wing Sung is it worth buying in your opinion?
I have 4 Wing Sung 699 pens and have noticed the same thing you pointed out with regard to how the ink looks splotchy in the barrel. However, I have only seen that splotching with brown ink. I also see the same thing happening with my Wing Sung 3013 when I use the brown inks. My experience is limited to the inks I have on hand Schaeffer, Noodlers, Colorverse and Monteverde) but it seems odd.
Summary is simple, chinese pens are pretty good (especially for start), they are cheap enough to not be afraid to tinker with them and can be a decent writer at the same time. And I must say, that's a pretty interesting and cool hobby, especially nowadays when everything is electronic. Pen and paper simple, yet powerful tools)
Thanks for doing that, I found it interesting. I love my ws699, haven't tried the pilot 823 but I love my e95s, love the Iroshizuku inks,so I'm biased in favor of pilot. I just can't quite overcome the 16x value factor of the 699 vs the 823.
Didnt you accidentally grind away part of the section on the 823 on a prior video? Wouldn't that affect these results? My pilot custom 92 seals perfect for months and I feel the 823 should seal just as well
The results are surprising. Have you done the same experiment with the Platinum 3776?
Doodlebud, what about the influence of the seal from the shutoff vavle? If the pilot has a better seal then it would not let ink in comparatively if the wingsung has a poor seal then the feed would continue to receive ink. This would throw off the cap seal test. How could you confirm or compare the shutoff vavle seals?
I've tested those seals with my vaccum test beforehand. Also if the 699 was leaking from the main reservoir to the lower I wouldn't have been having the nib dry out issues I was having before since new ink would be continually supplied.
@@Doodlebud im satisfied and convinced! Well done testing!!
@@JerryCarter-xu6rs I thought it would do well but not this well. But like most things when it comes to sealing, a tiny difference can have a significant impact.
(Edit: after writing this comment I read your answer to a similar one).
This is so interesting. Did you consider the possibility that the plunger seal on the Pilot might be better, contributing to the difference?
Would you consider repeating the test with the valve open on both pens? I may be wrong, but I remember a video from Chrisrap 52 addressing his experience with his 823, I think, drying up when stored with the valve closed, and not so when stored with the valve open.
(By now he has released so many videos, I don’t know how long it would take me to look it up)
Unrelated , Bryan Shaw is arm wrestling. 6ft 8 ... 400 something 4 time worlds strongest man . He would love a pilot 823 though I'm sure .
I strongly question these results. Since the valve is closed, wouldn't that just imply that the seal is better on the Pilot? If the seal is less strong on the wingsung, then it wouldn't just be the ink in the feed that you're testing- it would be whatever seeped in from the reservoir. I think you need to measure ink levels as well. Possibly you could measure the pen empty, full, then after three months to see if there's a difference.
I've tested the seal on the 823 & 699 seperately before this test to see if they seal off and they both do. So it's testing dry out of the ink left in the lower reservoir. In the 699 modification video I vacuum tested both cap seals and the 699 did better than the 823 so this test alignes with those results as well. It's showing the modification to improve the cap seal significantly improved the cap seal on the 699. The 823 is still good, but the modification to the 699 made a very noticeable difference. Also if the plunger seal was leaking it would be always supplying ink to the lower reservoir in the 699 and I wouldn't have been having nib dry out issues to begin with.
@@Doodlebud I still think it would be interesting to measure the amount of ink each has going forward.
@lallison2825 Yup if I do a test like this again I can take the weight before & after
@@Doodlebud Super interesting over all- I really enjoy all of your tests that you do
Day 6 of saying
As always a great review!
Glad you liked it
Doodlebud, Director R&D, Wing Sung Corporation.
The Doodlebud abides.
I bought the wingsun699 to see if the size fits my grip (in order to upgrade to the pilot). I loved the pen but after the first month of daily use the pen started burping ink into the cup, when left on the desk horizontally. I put some silicon grease, trying to avoid the breathing hole but nothing. So I think that I would prefer the dryer one 😂
What a WingSung? what is that
Hi DB! Just goes to show that with a tiny bit of work and ingenuity, you can make the Wing Sung 699 seal better than the pricey Pilot. Both are mighty fine pens in my opinion! One is just a LOT less expensive, but it doesn't have a gold nib, either.
Good choice of ink for visualization. Still a regrettable color to me. It just looks to me like a color you encounter when you're sick.
Impressive insight.
Kindly do disassembly video of Waterman Carene
One two one two one two asmr mmm
I could record it and turn it into a ring tone
@ nice !
Interesting. Now I have to go back and rewatch the 699 review and find out what you did to it.
With all honestly, I purchased two 699's that were defective, both of them. The threads to the barrelI and cap did not screw properly. I desisted.
"I took the same ink" 👏 - "They put more effort in (the inner side of the pen)" well, for 10 times the price they really may do this...
Most of the pilot's price is probably on the gold nib to be honest. If you buy a premium gold nib as good as the 823's and add it on to the wingsun 629's cost, you'd arrive at the same price give or take $25 or so.
@@nunyabisniz8047 Not quite. The WingSung 699 is available with 14k gold nib for around 120 to 130 €, so the Pilot costs still over two times more. Btw, here even chinese fountain pens are a bit pricey; the gold for a nib is around 16 €...
Hmm, thought I had that already answered. Anyway, @@nunyabisniz8047 Wingsung 629 is available for around $ 120, the here shown 699 for around $100 to $130 with 14k gold nib, depending on branding and nib options. Price of gold (plain material) on the markets is around $20 for one nib and gold is pretty easy to manufacture. The pilot is about around the double in prize in Europe.
The test was interesting but if you want to be more scientific about it, you need to remove another variable: the valves.
If the valves work as intended, very little ink should flow from the reservoir to the feed. In that case, you would expect a similar performance to what you saw in the 823.
If the valve itself has a poor seal, that means that more ink goes from the reservoir to the feed, even if the pen itself is evaporating, more ink from the reservoir is entering it, so it remains wetter.
The only real way to test the seal is to take a very accurate weight measurement instead of writing samples.
I have tested the valve with my vacuum test. It seals the main reservoir off very well. A regular scale wouldn't be able to measure the small amount of evaporation at the level we're trying to detect. Also, I wouldn't have had nib dry out issue that I had before I did thr work to improve the cap seal if the shut off valve was leaking and supplying a flow of new ink to the nib
@Doodlebud cool. ok
Why don't you do the test, and give us the results?
@limmoblack Give me an 823, a wingsung and an accurate weighing scale, I'll do it. idiot
Oh boy I will write 2024 instead of 2025 for the next month or so. it happens every year
***JAN 3, 2025