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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2021
- When I think of something as being CHEAP, its not just the price point. It has to do with the manufacturing and design principles being the pen. Cheap means, we don't care just make it look pretty.
Here are my thoughts on what you get when buy from quality pen manufacturers and the minor details that aren't overlooked on properly made pens.
Are all expensive pens guaranteed to be amazing? NO
But on average, if you buy a pen from a good manufacturer, especially one that makes their own nibs, you're most likely going to get a quality pen (at any of their price points).
You don't have to shell out hundreds of dollars to get a well made pen, unless you want a gold nib, premium materials & trims etc. A low cost pen can be made very well with attention to detail, if the manufacturers actually care about the details and their products they make.
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Completely agree with this video. Cheap implies poor quality, inexpensive doesn't always mean junk. A higher end anything will usually put more care and attention to detail. Sadly, many of us (me) have champagne taste on a beer budget.
Maybe try champale? 😅 There are good quality budget friendly pens out there. And all depends on what someone classifies as quality
I will always recomend Platinum's Preppy. 0.5 is their M nib. Personaly I only use 0.2, the EF. But most people seem to rpefer the 0.3. The 0.2 is better (smoother for the same line thickness) than Pilot's Kakuno/Penmenship EF. There is also Platinum Meteor/Shooting star or Prefounte or Plaisir (Aluminum body) if you don't like the look of Preppy. All their parts are compatible with one another if you already have a Preppy. All below $20. If you are willing to go to bellow $30, there is always Lamy Safari. Even their EF don't go as thin as a Platinum or a Pilot but it's well know for consistency and prefectionism.
Other option would be to learn how to fix the cheap pens. I do ink experiments often so cheap pens is the way to go for me. It can be fun. I even made a very smooth italic nib from a broken nib using a metal nail file and normal nail polish files. It's what I had handy at the time and worked fine. So far I only broke beyond repair 1 out of 8 pens, but it was a $1 Chinese pen that felt cheap and really poor quality even comparing with other $1 Chinese pens. It leasted 1 year so better than expected. My oldest Preppy on the other hand has 3 years, was dropped on the floor several times and it's perfectly fine. Very scratched all over on the outside but still writes like a dream. Even when I tested food coloring as ink. I like Preppy so much, I have 6 of it. I also got 4 Meteor coming by mail soon.
@@cferracini Great uses of cheap pens. It's better to learn repairs on a $1 Wing Sung than on a $150 Vanishing Point.
I use my $1 Wing Sungs to sample new inks, since they came in a box of 16 of them. Haven't broken one yet, but I did have to fix one's nib so far. Was crazy scratchy, fixed that, then went super dry, so I fixed that.
Next experiment with them is going to be eydroppering. Got some O-rings and silicone and am going to grab one to try it out with. Just haven't decided which ink yet.
@@FerralVideo i
@@cferracini I can second the recommendation for Platinum Preppy if you want something super affordable!
Lamy nibs are quite a bit broader than the Plantinum or Pilot nibs (my Lamy EF was about equivalent to my friend's Pilot Metropolitan M nib).
This was an entertaining look at quality of manufacture. And I had never noticed that about the Lamy 2000 feed. The interesting thing about Lamy is that a lot of pens use the same basic parts and design.
Glad you liked it. I can't help but look at things this way. This is the benefit of a quality manufacturer. The R&D gets done, but that can get passed onto lower price pens. A low cost pen doesn't have to be "cheap." Cheap is when quality, build, materials, longevity, all take a back seat.
17:22 "They just work well"
You just convinced me to buy a cheap pen instead of an expensive one.
Have to say, I'm not a big fan of the LAMY styling, but I am suddenly s lot more appreciative of their design
I have been collecting and working on fountain pens for quite a while. Sometimes I will purchase several originals and then buy a few knockoffs just to see if I can tune them or make a few improvements and wind up with a pen that is within spitting distance of the originals. I recently bought a house and during the move I discovered a penfolio with four Wing Sung 699s (823 copies) that I haven't touched since prior to retiring 2 1/2 years ago. They each had a small amount of old ink left in them and I wanted to see if they still wrote after being completely ignored for at least 2 1/2 years. To my amazement all four wrote immediately while I was watching this video. Inexpensive doesn't always have to mean cheap.
“Who likes squeaking?!” killed me
I don't agree with a lot of points:
1. My Parker Duofold Demi gets "ink boogers" if unused for more than a week or two. Not an inexpensive pen.
2. Delta Dolcevita Oversize and Montegrappa Classica barrels leave residues on the metal threads of the section. Not inexpensive pens.
3. You get bothered by the barrels of pens rattling? How many times do you unscrew the barrels per day? If anything I would be bothered by the cap of pens that unscrew if they would rattle, which by the way, all rattle on my pens..Pelikans m400, 600, 800, MB 149, etc.
4. The fact that the cap of a pen that is push-pull, rotates is bad design in my book since the cap has a bad grip on the barrel. And why would you rotate the cap on a push-pull cap pen?
5. I have a Visconti Wallstreet LE, which has the back knob not align with the barrel. For a pen this expensive with a square-ish shape this is unacceptable, seeing how much you praise the time they invest in checking these pens. Not an inexpensive pen.
6. I've seen MB starwalkers with threads that didn't catch the cap anymore. Not inexpensive pens.
7. My caran dache Leman squeaks every time the cap is unscrewed since it has metal on metal threads, and also the cap scratched like crazy even though it is one of my least used pens. Don't know what the hell is happening there, if the plating is cracking or what else might happen. Not an inexpensive pen.
8. I have a Pelikan m200 which somehow in the production process got a magnetized clip, that as long as I used it was ok, but after I let it for a year sit in a box, started to form a rusty colored deposit on it. I've checked all my pelikans metalic parts, all are nonmagnetic, and even the other metalic parts on the same pen are nonmagnetic.
My point is, even expensive pens can have these flaws
well he's just flexing and hating cheap pens. he cares more on the aesthetics than the actual performance to price ratio. well he cant bash that for sure. comparing a 10$ pen to a 300$ pen and telling why does does a 10$ pen cant write like a 300$ does and telling you to just save and buy a 300$ one instead of a 10$ starter pen. its like buying a full 100ml ink bottle and realizing its not your cup of tea instead of buying a ink sample to test if you will like it or not. its a cheap 10-20$ pen and he's asking them to perform like 100~200$ pen and up. i dont know where is his logic on that. you know what youre buying. A DIRT CHEAP KNOCKOFF PEN! NOT some well known brand.
@@ginnfreecs2994 : There are many pen snobs out here. They love to boast about their
costly, name brand pens, and tell the other pen users that they are writing with trash.
I had to learn to either put them on "hold" or go broke trying to keep up. After watching
Stephen Brown's vids on nib care, I've learned how to tweak a nib and get a smooth writer.
Tonite, I'm writing with my smooth TWSBI Eco and Majohn A1. Aesthetics are nice,
but I am more concerned how the pen writes. I chuckle when I hear someone comparing
a $300++ pen with my $30 Picasso Avignon, which writes like butter and is not gold. I buy
what I can afford within my budget, and daily write with the pens I own--thoroughly enjoying
myself. I have not experienced rattling at all, and I have 385 in my small collection. Could
it be that he is trying to just be snarky & funny? (LOL)
I am beginning to appreciate these minor differences that end up making a world of difference over time. Especially true for FPs where "something that can write" alone isn't enough.
Respectfully disagree. I care way more how the line it writes looks, than what the pen looks like.
Neither is brown nosing.
another excellent evaluation of the manufacturing process. Of course the expectation of excellence in the final product should be expected in expensive pens and if made properly should go without saying, however, for me, when I get a cheap knockoff that performs properly, it is different level of satisfaction with no expectation of longevity or fear of loss.
Great comment
Yes.. Expensive pens are a product of months of R&D, specialized manufacturing, rigorous quality control.. They have better finish, perform better (more often than not), last longer and give us that pride of ownership..
But do they deserve 10 - 100 X price tag (which can drive some pen addicts towards bankruptcy 😉) ? My answer is “No” !
Price point is tricky. To make these pens they need humans that care and put in the work. And each additional step, part, inspection, etc all add cost. And these pens typically come from places of the world where cost of living is high and employers have to pay wages that can attract the people they need. During my work when we supplied a USB cable with equipment, 100% of them had to run without 1 fault at max data rate in a thermal chamber that cycled from -20 to +50 for 14hrs plus additional shaker table tests. Clients wondered why we charged a premium for a "simple" usb cable... then they went Ooooohhhhhhh I see.
I concur
Wonderful video. There is nothing as satisfying as discovering how clever engineering, attention to detail, and not compromising on QC can result in design masterpieces.
Absolutely brilliant video and some of your comments really cracks me up! I can relate to many of the incidences you mentioned with cheap pens and I can appreciate all the subtle qualities of the more expensive pens like Visconti, Pelican, Montblanc, Lamy etc. I collect many variety fountain pens and found this particular videos of your the best so far. Well done! Well appreciated! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Fantastic! I love your attention to detail. And with fountain pens, the smallest of details often make a large impact.
I know it is older, Dood, but I am binging your vids as a new subscriber. The sarcasm was excellent and I had some great laughs throughout. Hopefully it isn't the only vid of its kind in your collection. Thanks!
Glad you got the sarcastic tone. Some missed it & got so offend 🙄
I get a unique perspective of mechanical engineering and industrial processes after watching your videos. That is very unique to your videos :)
You have taught me to look at my pens differently, both the cheap and the slightly more expensive. I am no engineer but I can appreciate good design when it is explained to me. Thanks for the video.
You are so welcome!
Well done!! I have both and agree. After years of collecting, I have come to realize that I'd rather ink up and use one good pen than half a dozen that might (or might not) work smoothly and reliably. If only I had put the money spent on many cheap pens and bought a good pen right away, ...
Its something that you only figure out over time. Easy to crank out a pen that works, but not so easy to make a good quality pen that works but is also well made.
Looking at the beautiful Visconti pen, that never writes out of the box.... Chinese pen may not last, but writes straight out of the box and is smooth.
A very weel made video, thank you. I've appreciated your attention to details often not mentioned in other reviews.
Glad it was helpful!
Love the insight into manufacturing design princples!
Another fantastic video! Love the comparison and the sarcasm was in point. Thank for pointing out the differences in the manufacturing of the pens.
Glad you liked it. These are some of the details I look at with pens regardless of price point. Just passing on what I see with my OCD lol
@@Doodlebud we, your subscribers and viewers appreciate your OCD. I believe the majority are somewhat OCD, as I am! Keep up the great content.
THE HEIGHT OF PEN SAVAGERY!
I could watch this all day and not be bored. Best video on affordable and premium pens. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks buddy, glad you enjoyed it!
I have a pen that I bought second hand on a fountain pen forum and it's considered a somewhat pricey brand. The when I turn the threads to unscrew the cap, the barrel unscrews from the section and the grip section stays put inside the cap. Sometimes even high end pens can have that fault as well.
Absolutely, price doesn't guarantee a flawless pen.
I like your channel overall, but your engineering perspective videos really stand out, even from all the other pen channels out there.
Glad you enjoyed my rant 😅
I think you left out the aspect of customer service. I just watched a video of someone who bought a used LAMY 2000 for cheap because the cap was broken. He asked the customer service in Germany for a Replacement and they answered that he should send in the whole pen and they look what they can do. So he sent it over, waited for three weeks (he was from the UK) and he received the pen with lots of documentation about what they did in the service department. They completely disassembled the pen, cleaned it, inspected it, replaced one part of the piston fill system, put new grease on every moving part, made sure everything works perfectly again, replaced the cap and even reworked the finish so that the cap again matches the pen. So he flipped through the pages, scared of what price tag they would put on such a lot of work, he just wanted a new cap. And they charged him - nothing. This is customer service second to none. To a point where you just wtf... So if you ever thought 'Is the LAMY 2000 really worth this much money?', take that into account, this is actually a ridiculous level of service.
Absolutely, service is very important. A good reputable company understands their will be problems & not everyone will be happy. Treating customers great before & after is huge
@@Doodlebud And it's expensive. But some brands and companies really get it right. Same with Leatherman and their 'no-questions-asked' warranty. If it's broken, they'll fix it. And when you open a request online you can even check the box 'repair only in any case, no replacement, the tool has special emotional value to me'. But I digress ^^
It's a funny thing. I am not much into pens, but I still really enjoy your videos. Why? You speak on an almost lost subject in today's world. That subject is high quality. I just remember that most things were high quality when I was a kid. Nice work.
Well, part of the fun with less expensive pens is working with them in order get them to be somewhat satisfying. Sometimes it hopeless, alas. All-in-all I'm much less critical of the build quality of a cheap pen than one I've spent several hundred on when I notice a manufacturing flaw, which has happened numerous times. Clips which don't clip, cracks, inconsistent feeds, awkward weight distribution, invisible operational hauntings. Or...when the $$$ ones work perfectly, then I get scared to use them too much, lest they get over worked and lose their excellence. Oh, here's one I only use in early Spring to write the occasional haiku, then wash it out and carefully put it away.
Frankly... I didn't buy the pen (even the expensive "fancy" one) to LOOK at it... I bought the damn thing to WRITE AND DRAW... If it's not going to handle the job, I wasted my money... and that's only going to happen ONCE on that name...
Don't get me wrong. I like a pen or just about anything "cool looking" too. At the end of the crying and pissing and whining and bitching and moaning, however, I JUST want the g** d*** thing to WORK... period. ;o)
Well done! Lots of good points and entertaining at the same time.
I have seen 2 Pelikan M600 (one of them is mine) with slightly twisted strips, and at least 2 Pelikan nibs with misscut. But I totally agree with the material (resin) used in the exp. pens and the nib/feed units are far better than the cheap ones, besides the customer service from exp. pen cpmpanies (like Pelikan) is unbietable. Thanks for the video, enjoyed watching it.
This was great, I laughed out loud. Thank you for the break today! Stay safe
I sat down to do the video and these little things just started to tick me off so I hit record LOL
A great video , and it makes the point well. As a purchaser and regular user of so-called “expensive pens,” I know the difference quality makes, and I frequently make the same demonstration to my non-pen friends. But I felt a bit uncomfortable with your targeting the Platinum Curidas. Mine always starts right up for me, even if it’s been sitting for a month. It does have that little chamber that keeps the nib from drying out-more money for R&D, and after all, it is a Platinum. I think you were off target on that one. And yes, Lamy proves that you can make a great starter pen for under $30, and a customer who buys the Lamy Safari and realizes what a great pen it is will someday buy the Lamy 2000, truly a classic. And TWSBI has proven that you can turn out a first-rate product for a reasonable price. I have a Parker 51 with Vacumatic, and I also have the 2020 edition. But then, I also have the Wing Sung 601 because I don’t worry when I carry it around in the cruel world out there. And do you know what? It really works. Ditto for the JinHao. So there really is a place for the cheap knockoff , and the purchaser will someday want to spring for the genuine article.
The platinum works very well. I said that for under $10 you can get a very good pen where even the pen tube it comes in is good quality. Maybe I didn't make my point clear that it's a quality pen. For me, cheap has to do with the quality construction of the pen. You can get a wonderfully made pen at a low price point (such as the platinum). Also, can get a cheap constructed pen at a high price point. Some the pens I was showing that are "cheap" I find try to pass off good looks above being well made. And that's the rub. When asking such a low price but trying to make it look expensive, something has to give. Not all jinaho, wingsun, etc are terrible. They have a place in the market to fill. But, was showing don't be deceived by looks. Just because a pen looks high end or resembles a well known pen & can be bought for $7 VS $100....you get the idea.
@@Doodlebud of course I get the idea and agree with you in most of your assertions. My point of disagreement was when you demonstrated the Platinum Curidas along with a negative commentary,, one which in my judgment was entirely uncalled for. The Curidas is an excellent pen, and even when left unused for long periods of time is not a hard starter as you maintained. It is particularly well engineered, and deserves a place in a decent sized pen collection. After all, it is a Platinum.
the difference between new engineers that design things to break, so that manufacturers can make the profit, and old school engineers that design things to last almost forever to create a fan base that will buy more because they like things that work.
Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a room! A rubber room. With Rats! Rats drive me crazy. Crazy? I was crazy once...
This video is much appreciated, especially this part 12:00. I've never experienced an issue with my Lamy per se, but it wasn't 'that' wet to show the true character of many inks I have. Having read about this trick but never seen it on video, I was a bit afraid that I would damage the feed so I sticked to inks that worked just fine and used the others ones in different pens. Finally, I've gathered enough courage to give it a try and oh man, this Lamy is a total gusher and I love it. The enhanced character of inks and its depth is like a day and night difference!
Well I don't recommend running the pen without the other part of the feed installed. What I was pointing out was the feed is designed completely different rather than an off the shelf one. One reason is to fit the design, but also to accommodate the wide range of nib choices. If the nibs options were F or M, wouldnt have to go all out on the feed design.
@@Doodlebud yeah, I know but it struck me and I was like 'maybeee? Maybe if I get rid of that part which, as can be seen, won't damage the feed maybe it will result in a firehose'. It did its job. FYI No leaks or nib creeps so far!
EDIT I've seen other people enlarging/deepening the channel with knife. I'm pretty convinced that this 'take out par of the feed' option is more preferable.
@@jachymvales2531 OMG, knife to the feed! I guess if you want the fire hose mode, let 'er rip!
I don't think I've ever seen a product video with this much sarcasm. Well done, sir! 😂
Holy moly. Twelve minute introduction... priceless.
You forgot to mention "self cracking plastics", the real technological miracle of chinese manufacturers.
As you mentioned, it is the time and attention to detail that matters the most, regardless of price. Visconti made their name with innovation of material and design and attention to detail. So has TWSBI and as far as I can tell penBBS, to name a few. It is the desire to make a quality product more than anything else that is the dividing line between a great pen and a horrible pen.
Absolutely agree. I should have calmed myself down during the video to clarify cheap lol. Cheap isn't price. Cheap is poor build, assembly, material choice, & lack of attention to detail. You can find a quality built pen at any price range. Just as we've all had poorly made pens at higher price points. To me when something is cheap, it's laziness & lack of care.
@@Doodlebud I have a Pelikan M800. It just oozes quality. At half the price you can get a Sailor 1911L or a Leonardo Furore. I am just talking pens with gold nibs. Steel nib pens are also great quality like Benu or even the Platinum Procyon.
Quality is not just price, as you inferred.
Thanks for the rundown of what to look for in a pen.
Otherwise, I was a bit disappointed I didn't get to see the Muji pen's cap posted. It was one of those things that made me want to have it for a while.
I have (and so do many others) full reviews of the Muji pen. You can check mine out if you want to see me post the pen ;)
th-cam.com/video/-UKBCYSH5Hs/w-d-xo.html
Thank You, Lovely go through branded ones & cheaper ones.
What is the name of last FP you showed (metal body).
What are Best FPs under $30, Fine Nib & Eye Dropper.j
This was a really unexpected video! It was interesting to hear what you had to say about the different features of the pens in a surprising way!
I agree with the video, but this is not generally my problem. I would never buy a cheap or knockoff pen. However, I am generally still looking for people to explain to me why in the world I would spend money on a Mont Blanc as opposed to a Lamy 2000 or even a TWSBI 580.
I suppose cheapness is in the eye of the pen purchaser. What winds me up is when a cheapish but otherwise really decent pen is badly let down by a thoroughly downmarket cartridge converter which hardly does the job. I had one such pen which with a bit of “love” I managed to fit a Schmidt International Converter this totally transformed the pen. I have at least 3 more like this. Fingers X’d they’ll take a decent Cartridge Converter international fitting like Schmidt. May even double the cost of the pen but worth it. Interesting educational video. Good job Doodle Bud.
My cheap pens are great. Jinhao, DeLike, Hongdin, Platinum Preppy and Windsong. No blemishes, burrs, Marks scratches or rattles.
My Visconti van Gogh circa 2002 cap however simply broke off with a very clean break just above the metal cap band while unscrewing the pen recently. It is now super glued on and I gingerly hold only the cap band when screwing or unscrewing, so far so good.
Just my observation. Thanks for an interesting video. One of my favorite channels.
Funny how I've never heard a story about a Preppie breaking.
I think my demands are higher than most. Visconti is a brand all to its own. Sorta like an old Ferrari. Looks amazing but I'll be dammed if you can get everything running just right. Visconti could do with hiring a few German or Japanese quality control staff to iron out some of the kinks.
I agree completely.
@@Doodlebud Yep, Visconti with Platinum or Pilot level QC would have all the Italian flair, and wouldn't be a lottery on whether you get a good one or not. Doubt we will see that, as they sell enough as object de art as is.
Heh. I can see the points you're making just by looking at my own pen collection.
My Twsbi Eco still feels and performs like new despite rather heavy use. It has accumulated some scratches and dings though. I love this thing.
The Moonman T1, despite bringing a Twsbi Eco price tag, shows signs of cheapness. Most notably in that the cap threads are showing a little wear.
Same can be said for my Moonman C1, which also has visible wear on the cap threads despite not having a huge amount of cycles on it.
Unusually based on what I've heard, both of these pens perform perfectly fine. I've never had starting or skipping problems from either.
The knockoff piston fillers feel gritty and gruddy, and need like three twists to the Twsbi's one. Oh, and the piston knob is loose and rattly. They write okay though.
Now that's just my thread cap ones. My snap caps are ... a little more interesting, and not in a good way either.
My Hongidan Black Forest has definitely shown the wear I hammered on it over the past two years. The cap no longer secures, and has fallen out in my pocket more than once. I have the ink stains to show for it. A substantial amount of its paint has also worn off, giving it a distinctive patina.
The Wing Sung 16-pack of all plastic cartridge converter pens threatens/promises the same weak snap cap fate.
The Arteza disposables seem to be a little more reliable than the Wing Sungs, but also they're disposable, so nobody's going to shed a tear if the cap stops sealing after a few hundred cycles because they'll be in the trash by then.
I can't speak for the Platinum Preppy or the Pilot Petit1 yet, as I haven't been using them long enough. Given the pedigrees behind both of these pens, I wonder if they can save the reputation of snap caps from my disdain and disappointment.
Was that blue plastic capless pen the Platinum original Curidas, or the imitation? I know the Curidas had some problems in the first batch, such as split feeds, but after that they seem to work very well, and have the best protection against the nib drying out of any of the capless pens I've tried. Also, I love my Muji pen, very impressive for under $20.
Anyway, this is an excellent primer about what makes a pen worth buying (and having). Thank you.
It was the knockoff Lambitou 3088. Total trash pen. Works for 5min then fails. Looks cool, but that's it
I have a cracked 14k mentmore oblique semi broad nib and havent a clue how i could go about repairing it. Do you? Crack starts from feed hole and extends out about a third of the way.
I fell for that abalone pen on Amazon! No one needs to know ok?
I have a Hongdian N 23. It's reasonably cheap. What bothers me extremely is that the cap requires me to tighten it more than I think is safe for it to stop wobbling (There's very little movement, but it's annoying nonetheless). I would like to know if this is normal among pens with this type of seal.
I think this has to be my favorite video yet. Love the level of enthusiasm and sarcasm!
Glad you liked it, decided to just let it rip. Many will not agree and I'm totally fine with that.
Do you know where I can get a replacement nib for my Lamy 2000? The one I have writes too fine for my liking and everything I read says to send it to my nearest Lamy facility for a swap. I did see some entire feeds, but they are half the price of the pen and I'd almost rather have a 2nd 2000 for that haha.
So you’re saying I can take the extra feed part out of my Lamy 2000 to make it write wetter or is it just to regulate the ink flow?
No no no, the feed has been designed in such a way that all on its own it will supply sufficient ink flow for all the nib size offerings. Don't run the pen with that part removed
If you want a pen that you can write with comfortably, there are a lot of cheap pens that are a lot better than a lot of expensive pens.
If you want to sit down and look at your pen with a loupe to evaluate the materials and manufacturing, some expensive pens are better than most cheap pens.
As a Quality Director, I appreciate your dive into the benefits and the rationale of the cost of the more expensive pens. Yes they are design, tooling, material, testing and labor costs. The more hands on (touch time), the more something is going to cost.
Also, another factor that will go into the overall ownership cost is the maintenance cost. With a cheap pen one will not invest in pen flush, micro mesh, polishing cloth or even the time to clean.
One can buy a BMW or a Dodge. Drive each after 75k miles.
The benefit with a quality pen manufacturer is those costs are already sunk into the business. So when it's time to make a low cost pen, it's not cheap. That little platinum pen is a fabulous example how low cost doesn't have to be a cheap pen.
Some are, which is why I buy vintage. I bought a Pelikan140 and had it inked for 6months without touching it. It wrote straight away. To be fair I have multiple platinum preppies which do the same after 12 month haps between uses: no hard starts, just as lovely pen for £4.99!!!
There are some very well made inexpensive pens out there for sure. Cheap in this video had more to do with overall design and material/build quality choices. A $5-10 pen can be very well made if the right design, manufacturing, assembly choices are made. I find when $5 pen tries to look like a $100 pen, it never turns out well.
imo, people should just go for the tried and true budget fountain pens. The pilot varsity is literally $2.50, and is good enough. I woudn't get mad if I had to use one for a month or two. and for $5, you get a preppy. I recently found a preppy that I bought, and hadn't used since 2020, and I uncapped it and it hadn't dried up. not to mention, the preppy is seriously good considering that a whole preppy with an ink cartridge is a third of the cost of a single Lamy safari replacement nib. Also, maybe this is just me, but I like how budget fountain pens from actual pen brands actually look nice. The platinum preppy looks great as a budget plastic pen, because it is not trying to look expensive. I hate the look of a lot of these low quality eBay/amazon/wish/wherever you get these pens, because they are so often over the top, gaudy, and just try to look expensive, but just look cheap and bad due to low quality materials, and just bad design.
Damn, you made me appreciate more all the little touches in my Lamy and cheap and old (but still working perfectly) Pelikan :)
Great video. The only thing I will say is that the title is not 100% accurate although I understand why you went with "Expensive vs Cheap" as a title. I feel you did a great job demonstrating good brands vs no name/bad brands. As you demonstrated the Lamy Safari can't be categorized as expensive but wow is it one of my favorite writers and works beautifully. Even the way the Lamy Safari screws on to perfectly align to show the ink window is a sign of quality engineering and QC.
I haven't sprung for an M800 (yet) , but my lowly M200 has been around for 30+ years, written ten thousand pages or so, and except for changing the worn-down nib hasn't needed any maintenance and still works like a champ, so yeah.
I do understand what you're saying, but I have a few pens over $100 and a couple that are more than that, and there are things about them that obviously weren't caught by qc, so I don't think that some of these points are necessary valid when only talking about cheap pens
I agree, spending big bucks doesn't guarantee a flawless pen.
This gotta be the best fountain pen buying guide on youtube.
Has your opinion on cheap vs expensive now changed? Especially with new jinhaos, asvines and majohn?
Thanks for the fun! :-) I really enjoyed your video and agree with your points. The only one I felt was kind of off the mark was the Platinum Curidas. Not your point that the cap door doesn't seal well and dries out the nib, but I felt like you grouped that pen with the inexpensive pens, and it definitely is not. I wouldn't even consider it cheap, despite that design flaw. I'll be curious to see if Platinum goes back to the drawing board to put out a version 2 or if they'll let the design slowly fade out of people's awareness.
I am curious to know where you got your octagon-ish Platinum; I've never seen that model in the states. Is it found only in Japan?
That one is actually the knock off! $10-$15 dollar version... You get what you pay for
Here's the video for the platinum. Link is in the video description
th-cam.com/video/yEQJTMaWf-I/w-d-xo.html
@@Doodlebud Oh wow. I had no idea there was a knock off in that design. Of course, I really don't purchase knock off brands based on principle. If I can't afford the pen I really want, then I just don't buy it, or I save up. :-)
@@Doodlebud Thank you!
You're like thr AvE of pen revewers! Keep up the
All thr good work.
I have the same black and gold pen that you have but it has a problem it uses a lot of ink on the paper so i can't really use it because it makes a lot of miss and ink
I'm just getting into fountain pens. I have a Jinhao X450 and I love it. It just doesn't post well.
OMG „ink buggers“, that just made my day!
1. I'd like to mention that I personally don't care what the inside of the cap looks like.
2. For at least 80% of what I do with fountain pens, my $5 Wing Sung 765 works just as well as my $200 Pilot 743. They both hold ink and produce a reliable line. I'm more focussed on results than the experience. Maybe cause I am a drawer, not a writer.
3. Thanks for calling it "lava resin" rather than "lava". I wonder how much actual lava is in it.
4. Off topic: It took me a while to admit it to myself, but my favorite filling mechanism is the aerometric. Takes like 10 seconds. Of course they don't make it anymore.
5. Yes, pens make fabulous fetish objects. Really.
I probably should have opened with a clarification of what I refer to as "cheap." Cheap to me is lack of attention to detail, care, and pride in the final product. You can get a great, well made, low cost pen. Inexpensive doesn't have to be be "cheap." And expensive, unfortunately doesn't guarantee a flawless pen. Sometimes a fancy look or material can deceive the buyer into thinking its a high pen justifying the high price, but the pen is "cheaply" built. I find Montegrappa can be guilty of this one. A pen has to work well for drawing or writing. But little details like I pointed out drive me nuts. A little bit of care and attention to detail doesn't exponentially increase cost. It can be a one time design check & modification which can make all the difference. Platinum, pilot, and many others show a low cost pen doesn't mean "cheap." Drives me nuts when pride isn't taken in the final product.
And as always, we don't have to agree on too much lol.
@@Doodlebud Points taken. I drive a Honda.
@@Doodlebud I appreciate your discerning and unforgiving eye.
An interesting video would be pointing out design and engineering excellencies in inexpensive pens. Such info would be more useful to those members of your audience who are cheapskates like me.
@@ichirofakename Those run forever. Wife has Mazda, and had one in the past as well. Not one damn problem!
@@ichirofakename I have some low cost pens which I find have great build quality. But not a whole bunch, and aren't the normal ones people go for. I have acquired some Jinhao's , Wing Sung, etc but not many as they really haven't done it for me. Yes, great deal for the money. $5 and it looks alright and puts down ink, so yes mission accomplished. They fill a need in the market place and thats great. But the term excellence makes my eye twitch when I really look at them. But thats because when a pen is designed to target a very low price point, many concessions have to be made. And from my previous line of work, NO CONCESSIONS were ok, excellence was the only option. That little platinum thoroughly impresses me. I can see the pride in the design and details even if its only $10. Don't find it often with many brands around that price point. So I'm probably not the best person to do a vid like that.
Brilliant showcasing of the best and the worst features we all pay for one way or the other. Hats ---- an' caps!---- off to ya! 😂
Thanks for the shout out! Love the videos. Keep it up.
Thank you for pointing that out. I really liked the tube, but wasn't even thinking about if they picked it from an existing option. Figured they just made it since they do injection molding already. But probably, like you said, just bought a bunch of the 2L starter blanks, slapped on some labels, and a branded cap. Friggin genius! Low cost option without sacrificing quality. Just takes a little thinking and willingness to find a good cost effective solution. As an engineer, that's probably one of most satisfying things to do. Nothing better than going to owners office and saying: "Hey check this out! I think I got a really good idea!"
I at first didnt grok this, now after getting my pens and writing hundreds of pages I get this hard.
In general, I think you are right. And your attention to the details is why I recently began following your channel. However, I am conflicted. You do not have to spend a ton of money to get a quality pen. Thankfully, you clarify this in the one of the comments, but it was only briefly mentioned in the last minute of the video.
I would also love to see a follow up video about the problems that more expensive pens have. From the video I get the impression (whether intentional or not) that if I spend $700 on a pen it will be perfect. That is just not the case. Yes. In general, I think you can expect more out of an expensive pen. But because you expect more, it is all the more devastating when those expectations are not met.
I’ve had pens that are hundreds of dollars come to me with scratches and dings right from the box. I’ve had the threads on a more expensive pen strip within a week (and I baby my pens so it was not due to over tightening). I’ve had cap bands fall off $100 pens. Finally, I’ve had the section and nib plating peel off after less than a year, and recently with the same model, had it come to me with the finish on the resin peeling - it took three pens and multiple months to get a pen without this flaw.
I mention all of this because I’ve seen multiple posts lately from people who were very disappointed from their first higher end purchase. They were expecting perfection and that’s not what they got. I hate to see people turned off to the hobby because of unrealistic expectations.
I am willing to put up with months of back and forth with a pen brand because I understand what a quality pen looks like from the brand and I therefore hold out until the pen I get meets that level of quality. However, if my first expensive pen experience was bad, the path I’m on in this hobby would be completely different or may have even just ended right there.
I did show off 2 very low cost pens. The pink Platinum Shooting Star ($10) and the Muji ($20) where the build quality is fantastic and for the low price, then pen doesnt have to be "cheap." For me "cheap" is lack of care and quality in a product. This can also happen in expensive pens. Corners are cut, testing isnt done, assembly isnt inspected or done in a way to ensure the best quality. I'm fortunate not to have any of the issues you've mentioned above. But unfortunately, a high price doesnt guarantee a flawless pen. The only issues I've had with an expensive pen is a nib being off. Typically its a quick adjustment and its all good. But that should be an extra inspection step that is done when demanding a premium price. I think I'm fortunate to have my background to help me spot issues in a pen before I buy it. Shinny cool looking pens are great, but I look more at the small details before buying be it in person or online. I did this video to also help viewers recognize and spot these tiny details in pens so they know how this can impact the overall quality of a pen.... regardless of price point. Hope that helps clarify. I started looking at the pens before I started the video an these little things started to make by blood boil! So I just turned on the camera and let it rip!
@@Doodlebud I am certainly not criticizing you for this video. As always I learned more than I knew I needed and love the details of design and manufacturing that you highlight in your videos. This one is no exception.
And I do realize that you showed a few more affordable pens like the ones you mentioned and others like the Eco. I also realize that in this video, your enthusiasm for a well made pen was the focus and that my comments may have been more broad or even off topic. I was simply trying to bring a new perspective to the topic.
You certainly have been lucky if you have had few to no issues other than nibs. And I understand that your background keys you into details I would never notice and that your willingness to and success at grinding and tuning your own nibs gives you a skill set that not everyone has.
However, until recently, the only way I had to buy pens is online. Though I have owned a fountain pen or two over the years, I only got into the actual hobby and community about two years ago - just before everything shut down.
And while you mention that you can suss out the details of a pen whether it is in person or online, there really is only so much you can do to research a pen online.
You can look at photos to see if the shape and color are your style. Yet, now that I just visited my first pen store in person, I can say that some pens I liked online really didn’t do anything for me in person.
You can find all the specs in order to guess whether you might or might not like the pen based on the weight, length, girth, material, and filling system. But again, until you have the pen in hand, you really don’t know.
And you can read countless blogs and watch numerous videos about what others like and don’t like about a pen as well as get an understanding of how the pen might write. Then, you can weigh all the pros and cons and comparisons from other people to decide if it is worth it for you. But again, once you have the pen in hand, you might find an aspect of the pen that bugs you that reviews never thought to cover or that you thought you’d be ok with but in reality are not.
I did all of these things and more when considering the purchase of the pen that cost hundreds where the plating started to peel in less than a year. I went back and forth with the retailer for months asking questions about the pros and cons I’d researched online. I asked the retailer for detailed photos and even requested a video of the exact pen I would be getting if I purchased one. The pen came to me and after months of hemming and hawing, I was very happy with my purchase. There was absolutely no way to know that months later I would have problems and start to wonder if the purchase of an expensive pen is worth it. I almost stopped right there to go back to the $50 and under category - a category where I’ve had very little trouble. I own multiple Conklin and Monteverde pens without issue. And have a $15 pen I bought 10 years ago that is still in my rotation. No cracks, dents, scratchiness or hard starts. That’s also not something I expected or could foresee.
Thanks again for your videos and I look forward to the next one.
Not taken as a criticism, just a healthy back and forth discussion friend. Finishes, coatings, materials all have pros and cons. There are many pens I've really liked, but never bought because of specific things like that. Goes to speak of the tremendous value in the old fashioned brick & mortar retail pen shop. A pen can check off every box you want and "should" equate to an amazing pen. But, can be let down instantly by the grip, feel, nib, etc. Getting to try before you buy with pens is just as relevant as when buying clothes, shoes, etc.
@@Doodlebud Wow! I never expected this to be such a discussion (though it looks like you did and were prepared). From the get go, I was really agreeing with you, maybe from a slightly different perspective. I wanted others to see your true intent - to penable everyone wherever they are at on their pen journey with quality pens. I didn’t realize how difficult it is to get one’s true intent across. I watch you specifically because you are detail oriented and OCD. I have sent back what others might consider a perfectly good pen because of what I perceived as a flaw that would bug me to no end (a glue spot on the barrel near the end cap of a Sailor demonstrator). I never saw you as elitist as some people are currently doing. I was just trying to flip over the same coin to reinforce your message about the details that make a quality pen. And price is not one of them.
Thanks again for your videos and perspective.
@@alternativerohde Oh I expected many to completely disagree with me and spark debate. But thats totally fine. Me, you, everyone all have inherent biases that come from life experience. Be it a bias with respect to budget, use for the pen, size, shape, hell even shipping costs, it is impossible to ever have a review which is unbiased. Since the term itself "review" is an opinion... which of course will be biased and that is fine as its part of being human. Just try to get 30 people together and order 1 type of pizza to appease everyone..... good luck. So when it comes to our treasured fountain pens, and some dingdong (myself) makes a video that portrays a prized possession by some as garbage..... well... you can see how that goes. But its all good and healthy. My goals isnt to make videos that makes everyone happy. Firstly, its not possible. Second, we all have opinions and its absurd not to express them and allow people to debate. The expression I'm thinking of goes something like "To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, and be nothing." I'm a big boy so I'm all good :)
I think I more dislike is for medium expensive. I’m talks about stuff like Conklin where they shove a jowo nib with no tuning into a Chinese body and sell it for $80-$100. But I quite like my Jinhao X159. It’s really pretty liberating to have a pen you don’t have to care about. Like, if I lost it or cracked the barrel… I’d probably be more annoyed with the lost ink than the lost pen, since you can buy ‘em in bulk for under $10/each.
Jinhao nibs are even better than Conklin 😂
Great video!
About ink boogers. 😆 I thought that happened became of the ink itself. So is it really due to a cheap pen design? Is it becoming of some kind of pressure with clip tops? This happens with my Monteverde Innova Limited Edition fountain pen and a few others. I really thought it was the ink. Maybe it’s just a cheap pen issue then? I just happen to use that Monteverdi Fire Opal ink in those pens as well so I can’t tell. Would you say it is not the red inks itself or is it a problem with the pen? Yes,the Innova is not the most expensive pen in the world. In fact, I guess, it is considered a cheap pen by most comparison? But it wasn’t a $20 pen. What are your thoughts and knowledge on this issue and pen if possible. Cheers
@Doodlebud
It is a property of ink where it can be more likely to get the crusty action happen. But for some reason with this pen, its like 1000X more prevalent! It has such a problem providing flow to the nib, except for it creeping out and forming a serious nugget on the nib. I didn't have this issue with the same ink on other pens. Could be something to do with such a bad seal that it accelerates the formation.
watching this while I'm currently taping up some wrenches to hopefully not mar up my Kaweco brass sport that is sealed up because the threads oxidized:')
Coming from a former Industrial Designer, you are a pro!
A great example of a really nice pen ruined by one -- ONE -- design flaw: The Maiora Aventus, where the nut on the cap destroys the tip of the nib. The threading was too deep, the cap screws on too much, the two overlap. But, the nut is hollow to fit an allen wrench, so it takes a few weeks for a few unlucky twists to finally catch an edge on the nib and snap it right off. $150 down the toilet.
... For a beautiful Italian pen, that glaring detail was almost unbelievable. Hundreds of expensive pens that are worthless.
Yeah its mildly infuriating when a tiny design choice can totally mess up a pen. Usually this only requires a small change in the CAD files to fix it, but isn't still not done. These type of fixes cost nothing and are permanent. That's why drawings have a space for revisions and comments for what was changed.
Speaking of pens that are not "cheap" -- I hate to get too personal. But in a recent vid, you mentioned that you had found your "dream" Montblanc 149 that you sought in a certain configuration at a certain price. I am not asking about the price, but I am curious about the configuration? I think you said it was a "W. Germany" pen, which tells me about the rough time frame when Germany was reunifying. But what more are you willing to share? Inquiring minds want to know.
Lol, there's nothing overly special or secretive about my MB 149. I got a stellar deal on the pen. "New old stock" from the mid to late 80's. It has a fine nib, which I in turn ground to a fine cursive italic. Spent time to ensure I left tipping material for longevity & got the gap just where I wanted it for the ink flow I was looking for. Hope that helps 😁
How's the ink acidity testing coming along? I have a possible way to simplify it. Find a soda pop, Dr. Pepper, and known acidity, or vinegar, and put two equal drops, or 1milliliter in ten parts distilled water, that has been neutralized to 7 ph. You can neutralize a whole gallon, that way you don't have to neutralize each time you do a test. Then, you chart out what the acid reading was for the vinegar sample, and compare it to the samples of 1ml of ink per 10ml of 7ph water.
The pH testing is on hold until I have a few hours to prep all the samples and start logging the data. Hopefully sometime soon. I have played around and am happy with my testing method. I'm not stressed too much about the pH 7 water, as its sort of a fallacy. As soon as "neutral" water comes in contact with atmosphere, the CO2 interacts and makes the water acidic (pH 5.6 or so). I would rather find an old pen that was left filled with water than an ink that has a pH of 7.0. I have buffer solutions to calibrate the meter, and in turn check the meter as I'm doing my testing to ensure results aren't drifting too much. I'll just use distilled water to rinse between tests as I will use a 50 ml sample to test each ink (45ml distilled water and 5ml ink). So will might as well use the same water with the same ph so if a few drops are still on the meter after rinsing, it wont affect the pH of the samples.
@@Doodlebud wow, very cool. I did not know that co2 mixed with distilled water so quickly, but it makes sense, distilled water is crazily attractive to anything it can form a ionic bond with! So many people, fountain pen people, artists, journalists, diarists, museum curators, book binders, book restorers are going to be interested in your video, as well as ink makers. That video is going to blow up your channel in a month's time, Sir. I hope for you much success and much fun and good luck!
So far the best quality cheap pen I have is a metropolitan pilot. Was under $20!
Most challenging in my collection is my Karas Kustom. Sadly the titanium nib gives me ink boogers, threads are sharp and ink is usually in the internal threads. Lastly the grip comes loose often and I find I have to tighten it up with each use. That’s all mine for the low cost of $130😒
I do enjoy my current customer care but for the challenge is at Kmart I don’t necessarily think it’s worth $130
Yeah the flip side is price doesnt always guarantee attention to detail. The increased price SHOULD mean better inspection, design consideration, and finished product. The thing I like most in a pen is when I can see the pride in the work. When the design, engineering, manufacturing, and inspection teams all did their part to give their best effort. A wonderfully constructed pen can be obtained at any price point, but increased price should greatly reduce issues. I find there are some brands that do a wonderful job of this, and others not so much.
What's that pink platinum pen called?
Platinum Shooting Star. Here's the review:
th-cam.com/video/zK_9_1lx0Z8/w-d-xo.html
Here's a vid idea: Perkeo vs Shooting Star
Very informative video and I agree on your point of view. In my experience, those low cost pens don't hold up with time. They are usually not cared for so that it can be used for long. I prefer saving a bit more and buy a quality pen (many mid budget pens available). You forgot to highlight the nib swap options Lamy offer at its low end offerings. These small things hint that the firm knows how end user needs. Nothing against Jinhao or Wing Sung or Baoer and so on, but I am not buying those. Thanks. 😊
We have the same thinking when it comes to pens, and clearly from the comments many don't. But thats what great about the hobby, we get to buy what we like for whatever the reason we like
@@Doodlebud indeed. We all have our preferences. I can understand that there might be issues in high end pens, specially quality control issues. I am lucky enough to have found everything intact. All my purchases were spot on as purchased from authorized vendors and in store purchases as I test them before getting. Problems might be frequent in online purchases. Anyway, a great video and looking forward to the next. 😁
I found some $4 pens machined out of solid brass on AliExpress that used the pilot G2 refill and the machining is excellent and comparable to something done in an American machine shop. Unfortunately this is the exception and not the rule
There is no rule you can buy a pen for $1000 and it be a leaky hand grenade. Price doesn’t always reflect quality
Cool video. Pelikan pens are well worth the money!
Bro, I don't even care about packaging and aesthetics. If the nib is good, if it writes/draws good, I'm good.
That's great bro
While the metal balls are very affective at breaking surface tension, I hate those convertors so much, they rattle while you write and feel like the whole convertor came of when you tip them slightly back, I had to keep cheack because one time it actually did
I get the mold line / marks thing on a lot of stuff. Like cheep glassware you can clearly see where the mold lines are. But hay, it saves a few pennies to not smooth it out
LOL Awesome video DB! I love getting the inside, engineer's scoop on things. There is no question in my mind that my Pelikan M800 is worth every penny. You can see it and feel it. I'm always amazed at how sensitive humans can be to subtle differences in materials. I have no clue why one injection molding plastic is "cheaper" than another. It is something in the chemistry that is beyond my pay grade. But I can FEEL it!
Hey buddy good to see you back at it! I was going to try to be all composed for the video, but then all the little issues starting ticking me off so I just decided to give 'er. The material can make such a big difference in feel, but also longevity. Small differences in chemistry can make a huge difference properties, and I turn what has to be done to manipulate a material to do what you want it to. I enjoy getting a pen, or anything for that matter, and observing the part to try to put the story together of how it was made & what they were thinking. In a way it gives "life" to an otherwise intimate object.
@@Doodlebud Absolutely! Just like how a pen can have a special meaning because of the story that comes with it; it was handed down, it was a gift, it represents something special in your life or belonged to someone special - understanding the design and engineering behind its creation can make it special as well.
You are the absolute best reviewer ever!
Haha, thanks . I don't know about that statement but it is appreciated 🤓
I'm living for the 10 straight minutes of enjoyable shit-talking 😹
FINALLY someone who gets it!
I have been looking for a pen for myself for 8 years. I cannot count the number of viscontis, pilots, pelikans, platinums... I have held mb 149 side by side with jinhao 150, and jinhao with a custom made nib won all the time, except for Santini - but it was made out of acrylic only and I need a workhourse... if that would be polycarbonate I would propobly swallow the low range of nibs to choose from...
A Motel 6 and the Four Seasons both offer hotel rooms which have a bathroom with a toilet, sink, and shower. The room will likely have a bed, TV, and mini fridge / mini bar. So why does one cost 10x more? The details.
I like all the sarcasm! keep it up 👍
I was in a mood that night LOL
and that's a well earned sub right there
True in part. Chinese copies are getting better and have supplanted Japanese pens in Japan. Some Chinese copies of Rolex for $1000 have been tested and found to be superior to Rolex--every part--it used to be only 99% of parts. Copying is unethical. Customer service for better pens is not what it used to be due to buyer abuse. Cross, Parker are not what they used to be. Seiko has no customer service--terrible ratings in US. Citizen is still quite good in US. Lamy gave me a brand new pen years ago & Waterman also gave good service years ago--not so sure about today.
Wonderful video. RS
Well my Jinhao writes better than my Platinum. You can’t compare $3 with $1,000. Not fair really.
I love all my pens. I think the whole thing is very subjective. If you treat your pen ( cheap or expensive ) harsh and with a mindset as well as an expectation for it to be " indestructible ", none of them would hold too well I think. And you were kind of " angry " :D especially with your cheaper pens, and I know it was done to kind of prove your point but no one really in a real life would treat a pen they own and care for like that. At least I hope. Of course there are going to be differences in manufacturing processes because the cost of each pen tells us that much. But I personally experienced expensive pens failing me in the terms of functionality and smooth writing sometimes, as oppose to a cheaper pen which writes like butter but can be more likely to encounter a scratch or two on its body a little faster than a better looking or better manufactured pen. If I like the way the pen looks and I enjoy the writing experience, I don't care if it's cheap or more expensive. It's up to me as well, to take care of each one to protect and prolong their longevity as much as I can. They are all just a products of a human craftsmanship, therefore they can all still fail. You are funny though. Nice video. :) Greetings from UK
At first, I saw this title and thought you were complaining about inexpensive pens that are budget pens for beginners (ie, Platinum Preppy, Pilot Kakuno/Metropolitan, Lamy Safari, TWSBI Eco, etc).
As far as satisfying clicks go, I LOVE my Monteverde Ritma for this!
Love my Ritma!
4:12 That nub on the lip of the Platinum Curidas hurt my fingers so much that my "Crystal" Curidas a.k.a. transparent Curidas now has washi tape wrapped around the nub above the nib. In the UK, the Curidas starts from circa £75+ (approx $95) depending on where you buy, and what colour/version. I've had mine inked since Christmas 23, and so far no ink snot between a few weeks of no usage.