the pace and the registration allow you to hear the sorrowful tears that are the repeated falling melodic lines. layer on layer..... it's devastating. the counterpoint shines and hits the heart. Amazing. A lesson for the modernists.
I really started to cry at about 9:15, and I don’t cry easily. I primarily play the piano, but the level of expression that you can get on the organ is simply amazing.
I was so moved throughout the middle section. I also play the piano. My body shuddered instead. I wonder what would happen if I used headphones (for me full experience) need to try it out soon. The sound possibilities of the pipe organ are unsurpassed...
Marcel Dupre gives a view in the Grave(middle section of the Fantasia) as an explorer climbing Mount Everest. In his reaching the highest peak any man can - furthest away from earth, he reaches higher than any human. One lifelong composer. Dupre. speaking to another lifelong composer. Bach, each in awe of counterpoint, harmony and structure and sonority. Marcel Dupre was more conservative and mindful of the "rules" in his teaching, he was not cavalier about it for one second. But, there are times when the human soul reaches further than flesh, and here it is committed to sound. Many musicians over 60 years have stated these 10 minutes of Dupre's commentary of the Fantasia as the most important musical testament of the 20th Century... the "Desert Island Disc".
So eloquently and beautifully put. It’s like he’s exploring every note or chord or progression of the whole piece- almost disassembling it, but with such musical intuition it’s captivating!!
Stunning. Stunningly beautiful playing and registration. Unhurried and so musical. Just the very best I've heard. Thank you for sharing this with us. ♥♥♥
Now that the whole St. Sulpice series is released on CD in 2015 (Marcel Dupre on Living Presence boxed set), someone should put them on TH-cam as well. I love how Dupre treated this piece as one big crescendo, building in both volume and adding more stops as he played. ❤
It is lovely to hear Bach played legato at a stately pace. One can hear and savor the counterpoint in the middle section. I’m not so sure I like Dupre’s registration, but I understand what he is trying to express. I feel that many organists today play Bach (and in general) too fast and too detached with page after page of Organo Pleno which is tiring to hear most of the time. Something is lost. Thank you for sharing this recording.
Couldn’t agree more - the dynamics are lovely too, most go for full volume in the middle section throughout and there’s little to provide contrasts. regarding registration I think the reeds are a little heavy, favour flutes/diapasons to bring out how the piece really utilises the tuning temperament to great effect
That's the lowest C that you hear. I think it's the only note on the 32-foot Bombarde on the instrument that sounds like it. Thunder. Love it. It really gives my 150-watt 15-inch subwoofer a workout, lol.
If it's played as this incredible organist plays it, it is natural for you to cry. Bach was living at just the time when the concept of springs was evolving, the building up and releasing of tension. He seemed to know instinctively how to produce catharsis in many of his works, long before there was any formal concept of the human psyche in psychology. Unfortunately, so many performers have over-studied and take such an academic approach to Bach that it is rigid and unyielding. Imagine being in a cathedral in 1680 or so and hearing this overwhelming piece--no frame of reference, no music critics, as we have nowadays. Just a sense of the eternal being heard in the equivalent of a 17th century skyscraper. Everyone from peasants to the wealthy heard these pieces together, and wept involuntarily. And Bach knew that they would likely only hear it once in their lifetimes.
Olivier Latry mentioned this interpretation in his commentary on his Bach to the Future CD. He says this is a source of inspiration and an example that not everything has to be monotonous and "historically informed" all the time!
This piece is very French for Bach. Even then French organists used very different stops than German organists, and coupled registrations differently, selected stops while driving and not setting pistons all the time. It's very much what you get when you have a master at the instrument.
What a man. Those emotions he created with perfect tempo and slow rising cresendo to the tutti of the organ. In my opininon a true and rare Bach Interpret.
@@rieske2000 Well... thats the deal with bach, you do not play him fast. You play him slow and you are getting a lot from his works. Not many people get that, and they shouldn't listen or play bach either, if they don't understand him. If you like and enjoy fast players, please go listen to koopmann and don't hate on masters like dupre.
@@EwicoCylinder I would say listen better or read the sheet music then you hear the old Thomaskantor even better. Bach is not to be played too slow or too fast. This one is way way too slow! And Koopman is a master and a scholar for that matter!
@@rieske2000 You know, i am not arguing with someone who doesn't understand something. If you don't like people like dupre don't listen to him. Bach was only in his last years a Thomas cantor in leipzig. You can't say i could hear only bach if i play it in a fast tempo. It' is like if someone talks really fast and you need to ask the person to speak slower to understand her or him better. Koopmann could be a great bach player, but rather that he made him self only a playing macchine. That's al i am going to say. If you play for example organ as myself, you really could feel the right tempi about bach, especially in his choral preludes. But i think you would only try to be someone like Koopmann so it is better for you not to touch an emotional instrument like the organ.
The Netherlands, Haarlem, Grote(Bavo) Kerk, Tue Oct 9, 1962, above next to the Organ i got the Signature of Organist Marcel Dupre while He in discussion with famous dutch organists where I something said about influences (as 'nicht-fragwuerdig') of French Clavecinists; He played there then so (program:)"1 Fantasie et Fugue en Sol Mineur" with not symphonic orchestration.
'GemmaCoebergh' thanks for Response; As to Bach and French Clavecinists: Sometime ago, within a TV-film as a walk along Bach's (cities-)developments: A friend? of Bach bought musicpapers with famous Amsterdam-Printers/-Editors; This maybe(!) those way > French Clavecinists;
Ha ragione Dupre' , perché è il modo per ascoltare tutte le note, come è necessario che sia. Da compositore conosce che altrimenti suonando tutto con organo pleno si percepisce solo un magma sonoro senza distinguere chiaramente le evoluzioni di questa fantasia , un po' come anticipazione della melodia infinita di R.Wagner. HO ASCOLTATO con il piacere di ascoltare.
It would be interesting to hear what the build-up of sound in the Gravement really sounded like but it is so badly distorted that it isn't possible. What a pity for such a fine performance.
J'ai toujours aimé cet accord de transition qui sonne faux entre le 2e et 3e mouvement. Ce 2e mouvement qui traine en longueur me fais pensé à la symphonie #3 d'Henryk Gorecky.
well, a document which reflets its era and is rather magnificent in its own right, I'd say. I wonder how Dupré's own compositions will be played in two centuries and a half? Will they be played historically informed and would that be relevant in that futur era? By the way: have you ever noticed that the middle section can be played on manuals only? It is my guess that this section started life as a harpsichord piece; what should one make of the contra B, absent on organ keyboards? Cheers, Willem
Here you can hear much more of Bach's musical intentions than in most modern interpretations. And this special version is even more transparent: th-cam.com/video/6jwn_g0ZvmQ/w-d-xo.html
I was enjoying it until those incredibly harsh reeds came in, spoiling the balance between the manual and pedal. My favourite is still Lionel Rogg's 1970 recording on the Arlesheim Silbermann. Interesting, thanks for putting it up. I love Dupré as a composer.
The 'incredibly harsh reeds' are the Francois-Henri Clicquot reeds of 1780. These and most of the other pipework by Clicquot were retained and left virtually untouched when Aristide Cavaille-Coll rebuilt the organ in the 19th Century. Due to this approach, just over 40% of the pipework in this organ is Clicquot and approaching 250 years old. I think in the context of this performance by Marcel Dupre you have to accept them the way they are. It's also an old recording from 1959 which has been remastered for this video, and doesn't really show them off at their best. The organ is spectacular to listen to in person.
@@ds1868 Thanks for that information. The reeds sound awful to me, but that is mainly because they are so dreadfully distorted in this recording. If they weren't distorted I think I'd be happy. I'm surprised that some people here call the recording "Perfect."
St. Sulpice organ is not just Cavaillé Coll. There are many stops from earlier eras still preserved and if you wish you can have quite original French classic registration. However it's clear Dupré didn't bother with that too much - it sounds interesting nevertheless.
😮Albert Schweitzer and Marcel Dupr'e belong to the greatest interpreters of Bach. The one the German, the other the French school... To say that this magnificent historic Cavaill'e Coll instrument is not suited for Bach is a fundamentalistic approach , or even misinterpretation of the genius of Bach! I dare say that Johann would have liked this interpretation , because his works invite even a more or less "romantic" interpretation, as this elegiac one is ! DRS.WKG
![[1965] Marcel Dupre plays Résurrection (Symphonie-Passion Op 23), St Ouen [REMASTERED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tbhT3jdXcQw/mqdefault.jpg)
Tasteless, monstrous interpretation, but good demonstration of the organ's sound palette. Magnificent instrument.
tasteless? how so?
superb use of the registrations and the slow pace allowed for the magnificence of sound to be al encompassing
Do you happen to know what is the exact registers Dupre used?
What a perfect recording of such a powerful piece. Maybe Bach‘s best organ fantasia
Magnificent piece. I could listen to it for ever. The clarity and power of the harmonic progressions is breathtaking. Beautiful.
The greatest ascending major scale in the history of music.
Um no
the pace and the registration allow you to hear the sorrowful tears that are the repeated falling melodic lines. layer on layer..... it's devastating. the counterpoint shines and hits the heart. Amazing. A lesson for the modernists.
so true!!
Αnyone knows of an analysis of the beyond great counterpoint of the Gravement section?
I really started to cry at about 9:15, and I don’t cry easily. I primarily play the piano, but the level of expression that you can get on the organ is simply amazing.
I was so moved throughout the middle section. I also play the piano. My body shuddered instead. I wonder what would happen if I used headphones (for me full experience) need to try it out soon. The sound possibilities of the pipe organ are unsurpassed...
Bach, Dupré and Cavaille-Coll - sublime ♥️
So beautiful!!!! Great organist, Great organ, Great Bach!!!! More Thanks 🙏
Marcel Dupre gives a view in the Grave(middle section of the Fantasia) as an explorer climbing Mount Everest. In his reaching the highest peak any man can - furthest away from earth, he reaches higher than any human. One lifelong composer. Dupre. speaking to another lifelong composer. Bach, each in awe of counterpoint, harmony and structure and sonority. Marcel Dupre was more conservative and mindful of the "rules" in his teaching, he was not cavalier about it for one second. But, there are times when the human soul reaches further than flesh, and here it is committed to sound. Many musicians over 60 years have stated these 10 minutes of Dupre's commentary of the Fantasia as the most important musical testament of the 20th Century... the "Desert Island Disc".
So eloquently and beautifully put. It’s like he’s exploring every note or chord or progression of the whole piece- almost disassembling it, but with such musical intuition it’s captivating!!
😟I Have this on LP but lost it ...Thank You So Much fore sharing this here.......
C'est la merveille même! Réalisation parfaite d'une oeuvre majestueuse, céleste, divine!
Mille merci!
H🇭🇺❤️
An absolute mystic warm wonderful sound. the best.
Stunning. Stunningly beautiful playing and registration. Unhurried and so musical. Just the very best I've heard. Thank you for sharing this with us. ♥♥♥
Now that the whole St. Sulpice series is released on CD in 2015 (Marcel Dupre on Living Presence boxed set), someone should put them on TH-cam as well. I love how Dupre treated this piece as one big crescendo, building in both volume and adding more stops as he played. ❤
It's simply Divine!
It is lovely to hear Bach played legato at a stately pace. One can hear and savor the counterpoint in the middle section. I’m not so sure I like Dupre’s registration, but I understand what he is trying to express. I feel that many organists today play Bach (and in general) too fast and too detached with page after page of Organo Pleno which is tiring to hear most of the time. Something is lost. Thank you for sharing this recording.
Yes - I think you are quite right. The version in my other comment (played not on an organ) follows exactly your consideration.
Couldn’t agree more - the dynamics are lovely too, most go for full volume in the middle section throughout and there’s little to provide contrasts. regarding registration I think the reeds are a little heavy, favour flutes/diapasons to bring out how the piece really utilises the tuning temperament to great effect
Beautiful.
Listen to how Bach invites us into the music, as it flows.. Wunderbare
The greatest organist of the 20th century!
Indeed!
That low rumble at 10:22… wow - an earthquake.
That's the lowest C that you hear. I think it's the only note on the 32-foot Bombarde on the instrument that sounds like it. Thunder. Love it. It really gives my 150-watt 15-inch subwoofer a workout, lol.
It's so old-school... But it's so *good.*
In some moments the organ sounds like a true symphonic orchestra!
makes me cry.
Me too. 9:15 is what did it for me.
If it's played as this incredible organist plays it, it is natural for you to cry. Bach was living at just the time when the concept of springs was evolving, the building up and releasing of tension. He seemed to know instinctively how to produce catharsis in many of his works, long before there was any formal concept of the human psyche in psychology. Unfortunately, so many performers have over-studied and take such an academic approach to Bach that it is rigid and unyielding. Imagine being in a cathedral in 1680 or so and hearing this overwhelming piece--no frame of reference, no music critics, as we have nowadays. Just a sense of the eternal being heard in the equivalent of a 17th century skyscraper. Everyone from peasants to the wealthy heard these pieces together, and wept involuntarily. And Bach knew that they would likely only hear it once in their lifetimes.
Olivier Latry mentioned this interpretation in his commentary on his Bach to the Future CD. He says this is a source of inspiration and an example that not everything has to be monotonous and "historically informed" all the time!
Latry's version on BNL from 1993 is very different from this yet still wonderfully attentive to the musical world embodied in this music.
This piece is very French for Bach. Even then French organists used very different stops than German organists, and coupled registrations differently, selected stops while driving and not setting pistons all the time. It's very much what you get when you have a master at the instrument.
What a man. Those emotions he created with perfect tempo and slow rising cresendo to the tutti of the organ. In my opininon a true and rare Bach Interpret.
So so so slow …
@@rieske2000 Well... thats the deal with bach, you do not play him fast. You play him slow and you are getting a lot from his works. Not many people get that, and they shouldn't listen or play bach either, if they don't understand him. If you like and enjoy fast players, please go listen to koopmann and don't hate on masters like dupre.
@@EwicoCylinder I would say listen better or read the sheet music then you hear the old Thomaskantor even better. Bach is not to be played too slow or too fast. This one is way way too slow! And Koopman is a master and a scholar for that matter!
@@rieske2000 You know, i am not arguing with someone who doesn't understand something. If you don't like people like dupre don't listen to him. Bach was only in his last years a Thomas cantor in leipzig. You can't say i could hear only bach if i play it in a fast tempo. It' is like if someone talks really fast and you need to ask the person to speak slower to understand her or him better. Koopmann could be a great bach player, but rather that he made him self only a playing macchine. That's al i am going to say. If you play for example organ as myself, you really could feel the right tempi about bach, especially in his choral preludes. But i think you would only try to be someone like Koopmann so it is better for you not to touch an emotional instrument like the organ.
@@EwicoCylinder yes you seem to know it all and I do not understand. I will not listen to Dupre.
The Netherlands, Haarlem, Grote(Bavo) Kerk, Tue Oct 9, 1962,
above next to the Organ i got the Signature of Organist Marcel Dupre
while He in discussion with famous dutch organists where I something said
about influences (as 'nicht-fragwuerdig') of French Clavecinists;
He played there then so (program:)"1 Fantasie et Fugue en Sol Mineur"
with not symphonic orchestration.
I was at this concert and remember it very well.
'GemmaCoebergh' thanks for Response; As to Bach and French Clavecinists:
Sometime ago, within a TV-film as a walk along Bach's (cities-)developments:
A friend? of Bach bought musicpapers with famous Amsterdam-Printers/-Editors;
This maybe(!) those way > French Clavecinists;
Ha ragione Dupre' , perché è il modo per ascoltare tutte le note, come è necessario che sia. Da compositore conosce che altrimenti suonando tutto con organo pleno si percepisce solo un
magma sonoro senza distinguere chiaramente le evoluzioni di questa fantasia , un po' come anticipazione della melodia infinita di R.Wagner.
HO ASCOLTATO con il piacere di ascoltare.
It would be interesting to hear what the build-up of sound in the Gravement really sounded like but it is so badly distorted that it isn't possible. What a pity for such a fine performance.
Astonishing. Perfect. Thank you!
J'ai toujours aimé cet accord de transition qui sonne faux entre le 2e et 3e mouvement.
Ce 2e mouvement qui traine en longueur me fais pensé à la symphonie #3 d'Henryk Gorecky.
🤗🥰
way to slow than what jsb had in mind i guess,
but this is like when the cover is better than the original..
btw,
10:58 when the rumble fades out, wow
How old was he here? How could you call this the best you ever heard?
wow! jesus christ! wow!
Gorgeous!!!🎉🎉🎉😅😅😅!!!
AH ! AH ! AH ! ALLA BREVE...
well, a document which reflets its era and is rather magnificent in its own right, I'd say. I wonder how Dupré's own compositions will be played in two centuries and a half? Will they be played historically informed and would that be relevant in that futur era? By the way: have you ever noticed that the middle section can be played on manuals only? It is my guess that this section started life as a harpsichord piece; what should one make of the contra B, absent on organ keyboards?
Cheers, Willem
Very well ! Also quite interesting is this poetic Synthesizer-Version of BWV572:
th-cam.com/video/6jwn_g0ZvmQ/w-d-xo.html
Here you can hear much more of Bach's musical intentions than in most modern interpretations. And this special version is even more transparent:
th-cam.com/video/6jwn_g0ZvmQ/w-d-xo.html
I was enjoying it until those incredibly harsh reeds came in, spoiling the balance between the manual and pedal. My favourite is still Lionel Rogg's 1970 recording on the Arlesheim Silbermann. Interesting, thanks for putting it up. I love Dupré as a composer.
The 'incredibly harsh reeds' are the Francois-Henri Clicquot reeds of 1780. These and most of the other pipework by Clicquot were retained and left virtually untouched when Aristide Cavaille-Coll rebuilt the organ in the 19th Century. Due to this approach, just over 40% of the pipework in this organ is Clicquot and approaching 250 years old. I think in the context of this performance by Marcel Dupre you have to accept them the way they are. It's also an old recording from 1959 which has been remastered for this video, and doesn't really show them off at their best. The organ is spectacular to listen to in person.
@@ds1868 Thanks for that information. The reeds sound awful to me, but that is mainly because they are so dreadfully distorted in this recording. If they weren't distorted I think I'd be happy. I'm surprised that some people here call the recording "Perfect."
Impressive and imperial "Crescendo" but Cavaillè Coll is not for Bach
Thats true
Because Cavaille Coll is for everything
St. Sulpice organ is not just Cavaillé Coll. There are many stops from earlier eras still preserved and if you wish you can have quite original French classic registration. However it's clear Dupré didn't bother with that too much - it sounds interesting nevertheless.
😮Albert Schweitzer and Marcel Dupr'e belong to the greatest interpreters of Bach. The one the German, the other the French school...
To say that this magnificent historic Cavaill'e Coll instrument is not suited for Bach is a fundamentalistic approach , or even misinterpretation of the genius of Bach! I dare say that Johann would have liked this interpretation , because his works invite even a more or less "romantic" interpretation, as this elegiac one is !
DRS.WKG