Street Epistemology - LDS Missionaries - Praying for Confirmation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- Mormons are very clear about their epistemology. That helps in a discussion about their method of arriving at truth. They pray to know their beliefs are true. Simple. But is prayer a reliable method? And how would we know? How do we put this method to the test?
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21:30
Raul: "What would falsify my claim (that I can make it rain)?"
LDS Missionary 1: "I don't know. I think it's hard to relate that to religion."
LDS Missionary 2: "Mm-hmm."
I wonder how they would have responded to the question: "How is my example different from what you're doing with prayer?"
Great talk, Raul!
Anthony Magnabosco Great follow up question.
@@raulcardona4491 It all comes down to faith. "What would falsify my claim (that I can make it rain)?" The answer is : "Nothing." But if you can't make it rain, then you have been falsified. Take for example how Elijah tested the priests of Baal in 1 Kings 18:25-39. It's not a matter of "wanting it to be true", but "testing it as if it were true and see the results before making a judgement". The amount of Christians requiring proofs and evidences over faith is amazing to me; too many want answers being spoon fed by God.
@@yanfoo is there anything that I can"t believe just based on faith?
I appreciate both of your videos. Thank you for asking great questions, and making people think. While I am a man of faith, I also believe that we should have good evidence for what we believe.
@@yanfoo not making it rain isn’t necessarily falsifying the claim. maybe he CAN make it rain but just not right now 😂
Omg. The look on the sister in red's face when she's lost deep in thought. That's why we do these conversations.
She's bangin'
I also served a 2 year LDS mission in Texas, and started having major doubts about it while I was out doing what these girls are doing. The mental gymnastics it takes to maintain these beliefs takes a toll on you if you actually think about them, which I couldn't stop myself from doing. Long story short, I was out of the church and an atheist about 4 years after I left my mission. I just couldn't maintain it. I was born in Utah in a super Mormon family like the girl in red, and while on my mission I came to the conclusion by myself that if I hadn't been born into it I wouldn't have believed it. That's a hard to thing to admit to yourself when you left college and gave up 2 years to go somewhere you didn't choose and teach people about these things. But then there's this huge pressure from your family and friends back home to stay there and keep being a good missionary, which I tried to be. I see these girls and think that no matter what they say, we have no idea what's going on in their heads. I said over and over "I know the LDS church is God's true church on earth" when I was having major doubts about the whole thing. I just feel sad for these girls; I wish they could stop and just go home like I'm sure they would really want to.
I had pretty much the exact same experience while on my mission in El Salvador. Its painful seeing and hearing other people so deeply intrenched in the same delusion that I was. I’m glad you were able to get out of it .
@@slickmullet3891 thanks man, glad you did too.
That was like watching someone explain to a geometry teacher that there are more than right angles.
Man, if only I had run into you on my mission in Brazil. It is what you exposed in this video about questioning the validity of the method of receiving a spiritual confirmation through these divinely-inspired feelings that caused me to eventually abandon the religion. This was an excellent discussion, and I think you did a phenomenal job of allowing these missionaries to follow the logical steps in your thinking, and force them to think more critically about the real reason they believe the things they do.
Everyone that leaves the Church like this abandons how they first came to know it was true for themselves in the first place. Asking Heavenly Father through "Prayer" if its true! They all of a sudden get scared of Church History and forget to pray. :) There is so much evidence for the Book of Mormon, even archaeologically. For example, check out "Wayne May" who presents archaeological support of the Book of Mormon... th-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/w-d-xo.html . Honestly, It all comes down to prayer in the end to know of the Truth. Let me ask you a serious question... if you were around during Jesus Christ's time and he claimed that he was the savior of the World... how would you know to follow him or know the statement he made is true? Another scenario... Let’s even take a prophet or even an apostle from that same time period... how would you know they were a true prophet/apostle and to follow their teachings? Prayer is the only answer my Brother to testify to your soul of that truth! If you are not willing to take the step of prayer and would rather sit back on the sidelines watching everything unfold without being part of it... than I feel sorry for you. Communication with God is the real source of truth... End of story! This is how you will know if the "Book of Mormon" is true! Not by listening to someone who I would compare to the Pharisees who were very smart and learned deceiving the masses. Most people are being led by the blind and are SIGN based seekers, instead of FAITH based seekers. Here it is directly from our Bible (the word of GOD) ... ask Heavenly Father if the Book of Mormon is true, AFTER reading it and the content inside! This process weeds out the wheat from the tares. James 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 BUT LET HIM ASK IN FAITH, NOTHING WAVERING. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If you have not learned how to communicate with Heavenly Father through prayer and are not able to do something as simple as ask him for an answer and wait for him to reveal it to you by the Spirit/Holy Ghost... then I am afraid you are very far from the target and have not taken that next step in your life of truly relying upon Faith by Prayer! Stop being deceived by Men and start relying upon Heavenly Father for answers and insight of truth! We were also told before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ... that there would be a period in the Church where there would be a grand separation of the "Wheat from the Tares". And as we can see... it's happening right before our eyes! Much love to you Brother!
Nice work.
Great conversation. Former missionary myself and it was on my mission that I started realizing some of the circular arguments I was using and seeing the fallacies. Took a few more years of de-indoctrinating myself before I left. LDS church is losing young people like crazy right now, and a great conversation like this is a good catalyst for these Sisters.
Feeling good after you pray is a confirmation that it is true.
So convenient to consider that faith is the answer to all the questions.
Mystery solved.
Everyone that leaves the Church like this abandons how they first came to know it was true for themselves in the first place. Asking Heavenly Father through "Prayer" if its true! They all of a sudden get scared of Church History and forget to pray. :) There is so much evidence for the Book of Mormon, even archaeologically. For example, check out "Wayne May" who presents archaeological support of the Book of Mormon... th-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/w-d-xo.html . Honestly, It all comes down to prayer in the end to know of the Truth. Let me ask you a serious question... if you were around during Jesus Christ's time and he claimed that he was the savior of the World... how would you know to follow him or know the statement he made is true? Another scenario... Let’s even take a prophet or even an apostle from that same time period... how would you know they were a true prophet/apostle and to follow their teachings? Prayer is the only answer my Brother to testify to your soul of that truth! If you are not willing to take the step of prayer and would rather sit back on the sidelines watching everything unfold without being part of it... than I feel sorry for you. Communication with God is the real source of truth... End of story! This is how you will know if the "Book of Mormon" is true! Not by listening to someone who I would compare to the Pharisees who were very smart and learned deceiving the masses. Most people are being led by the blind and are SIGN based seekers, instead of FAITH based seekers. Here it is directly from our Bible (the word of GOD) ... ask Heavenly Father if the Book of Mormon is true, AFTER reading it and the content inside! This process weeds out the wheat from the tares. James 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 BUT LET HIM ASK IN FAITH, NOTHING WAVERING. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If you have not learned how to communicate with Heavenly Father through prayer and are not able to do something as simple as ask him for an answer and wait for him to reveal it to you by the Spirit/Holy Ghost... then I am afraid you are very far from the target and have not taken that next step in your life of truly relying upon Faith by Prayer! Stop being deceived by Men and start relying upon Heavenly Father for answers and insight of truth! We were also told before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ... that there would be a period in the Church where there would be a grand separation of the "Wheat from the Tares". And as we can see... it's happening right before our eyes! Much love to you Brother!
@@thebasiclute just because you feel good after you pray, is not a barometer for confirming truth. At the end of the day, it is just a feeling.
Many cult members experience the way you do. They too asked God if it's true and the answer is yes for them.
Whatever you felt right now, is exactly the same way they felt about their beliefs.
@@bagnasbayabas The Bible explains to us to do exactly that... pray and ask the hard questions. (James 1:5-6). Either you believe in prayer or you dont! Its up to each individual to decipher the Spirit correctly. Also, you never answered the serious questions I presented... about Jesus & Apostles. By the way - People love to follow dead Prophets, but not living Prophets. Let me ask you... who do you believe is the true Prophet upon the Earth Today? The Bible clearly states that in the last days there will be many false Prophets, but also a true Prophet! I would love to hear who you believe the true Prophet is today... please share!
Same here! Handfuls from my mission left. A close family member told me about Joseph Smith committing adultry with Fanny Alger and being caught by Emma and being called out by Oliver Cowdery. Then I hear Brian Hales, the big church polygamy historian state it is plausible it occurred and made a joke out of it. That's when I knew I was done. Saw evidence upon evidence from the church's own history of why the leaders changed tactics from sending BYU professors out to find archaeology and using logic and evidence to support the church to "feelings" and being continually showered in confirmation bias. This was the 1954 leadership change to hardlined and feeling based orthodoxy that took place in the big CES convention to do all possible to make wanting evidence a subconscious sin and to keep prying eyes from the disgusting church history. BH Roberts was tasked by the first presidency of his time to become a master of church history and break it down for Joseph Fielding and other leaders so they could assimilate and understand it, and thus teach it, better. He returned and reported that what he found is going to really disturb the members.. a schism formed in the twelve on owning it and being honest or hiding it and going "feeling" based. Hard lined orthodoxy won, and that's when the membership (from roughly the 1950's to 2014) became a run from evidence and doubt your doubts cult. When the internet and Jeremy Runnells published the CES letter which essentially destroys the truth lies people had been fed for so long by damning proof from the Book of Mormon itself in addition to church history, the church tailspin entered... which is why the church education system is now teaching seminary kids about Joseph's manipulation of women by telling them an angel would kill him if they didnt marry him, book of mormon being "interpreted" with a face in a hat with a culty little peep stone (that he used to sell for hire to find treasure he never found for anyone but did get paid for trying) ect ect.. people are leaving in droves and I am glad for it. There are some good things the church teaches but I will never trust an organization that is proven to be this dishonest and wicked in manipulating and controlling people again. Baby must go out with the bathwater and I have never felt happier to not have to try and brainwash myself how D&C 132 could actually come from the same God of the Young Women's program.
you are very good at SE
Another way to show even more clearly the silliness of using prayer to confirm a foregone conclusion, would be to suggest a hypothetical atheist who prays and discovers that God doesn’t exist after experiencing a feeling of calm serenity. The calmness isn’t from a holy spirit but rather, it’s a feeling of relief that heaven and hell are fictitious.
"...a hypothetical atheist who prays and discovers that God doesn’t exist after experiencing a feeling of calm serenity." This is literally me. I was a Mormon in the same position as the missionary with the red top; I was raised in the church and believed it was true but needed confirmation. After praying and praying for several years with no confirmation, I realized I was always asking the same question over and over again. I was always asking, "Is the Mormon church true?" I thought maybe God wasn't answering me because I was asking the wrong question. In desperation, I decided to turn the question on its head and instead asked, "Is the Mormon church actually false?" I instantly had a deep feeling of calmness. That's when I realized that the reason I wasn't getting a "yes" answer was because even though I deeply wanted it to be true, logically I already knew it was flawed. When I changed the question around, I was able to accept in my mind that I already had doubts and it was okay to look into them. This brought me a profound feeling of calmness and comfort. I started looking into the history and the epistemology and I quickly realized that the truth claims were tenuous at best. I moved into a position of atheist shortly thereafter. I don't believe that my feeling of calmness was an answer from any deity; I believe that this "confirmation" that people get is just a product of their own mind seeking comfort when dealing with conflicting beliefs. It's a coping mechanism to quiet the discomfort associated with having cognitive dissonance.
@@5avan10 same
I was always an atheist. I admire those who grew up with these beliefs but chose to cast off those chains.
Everyone that leaves the Church like this abandons how they first came to know it was true for themselves in the first place. Asking Heavenly Father through "Prayer" if its true! There is so much evidence for the Book of Mormon, even archaeologically. For example, check out "Wayne May" who presents archaeological support of the Book of Mormon... th-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/w-d-xo.html . Honestly, It all comes down to prayer in the end to know of the Truth. Let me ask you a serious question... if you were around during Jesus Christ's time and he claimed that he was the savior of the World... how would you know to follow him or know the statement he made is true? Another scenario... Let’s even take a prophet or even an apostle from that same time period... how would you know they were a true prophet/apostle and to follow their teachings? Prayer is the only answer my Brother to testify to your soul of that truth! If you are not willing to take the step of prayer and would rather sit back on the sidelines watching everything unfold without being part of it... than I feel sorry for you. Communication with God is the real source of truth... End of story! This is how you will know if the "Book of Mormon" is true! Not by listening to someone who I would compare to the Pharisees who were very smart and learned deceiving the masses. Most people are being led by the blind and are SIGN based seekers, instead of FAITH based seekers. Here it is directly from our Bible (the word of GOD) ... ask Heavenly Father if the Book of Mormon is true, AFTER reading it and the content inside! This process weeds out the wheat from the tares. James 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 BUT LET HIM ASK IN FAITH, NOTHING WAVERING. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If you have not learned how to communicate with Heavenly Father through prayer and are not able to do something as simple as ask him for an answer and wait for him to reveal it to you by the Spirit/Holy Ghost... then I am afraid you are very far from the target and have not taken that next step in your life of truly relying upon Faith by Prayer! Stop being deceived by Men and start relying upon Heavenly Father for answers and insight of truth! We were also told before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ... that there would be a period in the Church where there would be a grand separation of the "Wheat from the Tares". And as we can see... it's happening right before our eyes! Much love to you Brother!
@@nativeatheist6422 You're lucky in that respect man. Religion, especially when you're indoctrinated into it, is a terrible thing to try to free your mind of.
While I did see this as a good interview overall, I would caution the interviewer in the use of questions that are either leading or "gotcha" by using the interviewees own beliefs. I think using more examples of other beliefs and then comparing those answers to the level of skepticism about their own beliefs may be more effective. Well done overall and good practice of being calm and non-judgemental. It also seemed that the interviewer began to proselytize atheism and being "honest" about others denying the interviewers faith rather than simply stating his current state of thinking and allowing the missionaries to accept it on face value. Essentially, the interviewer intimated that his interviewees were lying to themselves and this is a good way to shut down the actual conversation.
Very good conversation - you dropped many good questions with very good timing.
Especially the girl in red seemed to really think about it all :)
Great job!
Former missionary myself and I’m extremely pleased with the sisters here. They were very kind and their spirit was felt.
Everyone that leaves the Church like this abandons how they first came to know it was true for themselves in the first place. Asking Heavenly Father through "Prayer" if its true! They all of a sudden get scared of Church History and forget to pray. :) There is so much evidence for the Book of Mormon, even archaeologically. For example, check out "Wayne May" who presents archaeological support of the Book of Mormon... th-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/w-d-xo.html . Honestly, It all comes down to prayer in the end to know of the Truth. Let me ask you a serious question... if you were around during Jesus Christ's time and he claimed that he was the savior of the World... how would you know to follow him or know the statement he made is true? Another scenario... Let’s even take a prophet or even an apostle from that same time period... how would you know they were a true prophet/apostle and to follow their teachings? Prayer is the only answer my Brother to testify to your soul of that truth! If you are not willing to take the step of prayer and would rather sit back on the sidelines watching everything unfold without being part of it... than I feel sorry for you. Communication with God is the real source of truth... End of story! This is how you will know if the "Book of Mormon" is true! Not by listening to someone who I would compare to the Pharisees who were very smart and learned deceiving the masses. Most people are being led by the blind and are SIGN based seekers, instead of FAITH based seekers. Here it is directly from our Bible (the word of GOD) ... ask Heavenly Father if the Book of Mormon is true, AFTER reading it and the content inside! This process weeds out the wheat from the tares. James 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 BUT LET HIM ASK IN FAITH, NOTHING WAVERING. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If you have not learned how to communicate with Heavenly Father through prayer and are not able to do something as simple as ask him for an answer and wait for him to reveal it to you by the Spirit/Holy Ghost... then I am afraid you are very far from the target and have not taken that next step in your life of truly relying upon Faith by Prayer! Stop being deceived by Men and start relying upon Heavenly Father for answers and insight of truth! We were also told before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ... that there would be a period in the Church where there would be a grand separation of the "Wheat from the Tares". And as we can see... it's happening right before our eyes! Much love to you Brother!
@@thebasiclute Damn the LDS church must really be hurting for new members if you're willing to go around TH-cam begging people to come back in the comments.
@@BlGGESTBROTHER I didnt beg anyone to come back... I said this is the seperation period where members will be lost.... thats all ;) The scriptures talk about this event and it has been prophesied for quite some time.
@@thebasiclute The only thing you're separated from is reality.
@@BlGGESTBROTHER Awww... was that supposed to hurt my feelings? ;) You Da' Man!!!
Wow, this dude described my life at the end of the video. Why I was a mormon and how I left it.
Shawn Reed I would love to interview you for my channel. I'm a former Christian, and I think it's so important that people hear the stories of people who have gone through a deconversion experience. Would you be interested in doing a recorded interview? The focus would be your story as a Mormon and how you came to no longer be a Mormon.
@@raulcardona4491 I don't do very well with interviews. I get more anxious than I should with them. Basically I spent my whole life seeing things that didn't make sense but trying to rationalize how they could make sense as I had been conditioned to accept things as was taught to me (example: Noah's ark- how the hell is that possible - oh, with god all things are possible and maybe just a little area where most people were living flooded ). The next step was I thought religion was crap but will stay with it as a "what if there is an afterlife insurance policy. Later I stayed with religion (mormonism) because it was my culture and mormons seems happy so I should stick with it so I can be happy to. Eventually I realized I would be happier without many of the ridiculous expectations of my religion + thought it's "doctrine" as bullshit so I left. Lately I have further convinced myself I have made the right decision in leaving. Next step would be to get over it and become part of a new community. Timeline: went on mormon mission from when I was 19-21 where I stopped believing in most of it. 21-25 tried to convince myself to believe in it. 25 I stopped participating in religion. 25-28 went through the painful process of convincing myself that most of my life had been a lie. I am now 28, have accepted it was as lie and now watch youtube videos like this one on occasion as therapy.
Shawn Reed I can relate to so much of that. It was very therapeutic for me to listen to the stories of others who had also gone through a process of realizing that their most cherished beliefs were wrong. It helped me process a lot of what I had been through. You're not alone, bro. Thanks for sharing your story.
Hey Man, just stumbled into ya on here. Just got privy to street epistemology and wanted to say I like your style. Keep fightin' the good fight.
I find these conversations fascinating. They both eluded to (and dismissed) science and psychology, but both the method and subject are intimately connected to their belief systems. They would do well to keep a wide berth from these topics if they want to remain faithful.
Everyone that leaves the Church like this abandons how they first came to know it was true for themselves in the first place. Asking Heavenly Father through "Prayer" if its true! There is so much evidence for the Book of Mormon, even archaeologically. For example, check out "Wayne May" who presents archaeological support of the Book of Mormon... th-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/w-d-xo.html . Honestly, It all comes down to prayer in the end to know of the Truth. Let me ask you a serious question... if you were around during Jesus Christ's time and he claimed that he was the savior of the World... how would you know to follow him or know the statement he made is true? Another scenario... Let’s even take a prophet or even an apostle from that same time period... how would you know they were a true prophet/apostle and to follow their teachings? Prayer is the only answer my Brother to testify to your soul of that truth! If you are not willing to take the step of prayer and would rather sit back on the sidelines watching everything unfold without being part of it... than I feel sorry for you. Communication with God is the real source of truth... End of story! This is how you will know if the "Book of Mormon" is true! Not by listening to someone who I would compare to the Pharisees who were very smart and learned deceiving the masses. Most people are being led by the blind and are SIGN based seekers, instead of FAITH based seekers. Here it is directly from our Bible (the word of GOD) ... ask Heavenly Father if the Book of Mormon is true, AFTER reading it and the content inside! This process weeds out the wheat from the tares. James 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 BUT LET HIM ASK IN FAITH, NOTHING WAVERING. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If you have not learned how to communicate with Heavenly Father through prayer and are not able to do something as simple as ask him for an answer and wait for him to reveal it to you by the Spirit/Holy Ghost... then I am afraid you are very far from the target and have not taken that next step in your life of truly relying upon Faith by Prayer! Stop being deceived by Men and start relying upon Heavenly Father for answers and insight of truth! We were also told before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ... that there would be a period in the Church where there would be a grand separation of the "Wheat from the Tares". And as we can see... it's happening right before our eyes! Much love to you Brother!
@macolyis Wow... I dont know where you got your information, but that is so far from the truth! I am sure all you ever listen to or read upon is anti literature. Just do some real research and you will be amazed at what you find. Obviously you did not watch the Wayne May Video on archaeology in America. Do me a quick favor and you dont even have to respond back to me. Just do a simple google/etc search on the "Ancient Mound Builders of America". Not only that, but the Smithsonian has a detailed map of the entire regions where the Mound Builders were located in America... they just dont teach you these things in school pertaining to the subject because they dont want you to know the truth. When you find the evidence of ancient mound builders in America (and you will) just know that the BOOK OF MORMON came from those indigenous people... and its their real ancient History! That will be a great start of kicking your brain waves in gear!
@macolyis Let me help you understand something.... Please tell me... who are the ones that confiscate every single bone site on planet Earth? Its the SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION, which by the way is administered by the government of the United States of America! Do you trust them with truth, your freedom, etc??? Where are all the bones of the Giants the Bible talks about? Did the Smithsonian scoop and hide them so no one can see and have a more secure belief in the Bible? I personally would say yes! Same goes for the Book of Mormon... evidence is always covered if possible! Also, if you are in agreeance that indigenous people have been in America for quite some time (such as the mound builders) why couldn't they have Prophets and write Gods words as he commanded... just as in the Bible? Its not a hard concept. But people will always reject truth and thats just the way it is! I suggest you read the scripture chapter below!
2ND NEPHI CHAPTER 29
Many Gentiles will reject the Book of Mormon-They will say, We need no more Bible-The Lord speaks to many nations-He will judge the world out of the books which will be written. About 559-545 B.C.
1 But behold, there shall be many-at that day when I shall proceed to do a marvelous work among them, that I may remember my covenants which I have made unto the children of men, that I may set my hand again the second time to recover my people, which are of the house of Israel;
2 And also, that I may remember the promises which I have made unto thee, Nephi, and also unto thy father, that I would remember your seed; and that the words of your seed should proceed forth out of my mouth unto your seed; and my words shall hiss forth unto the ends of the earth, for a standard unto my people, which are of the house of Israel;
3 And because my words shall hiss forth-many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.
4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.
13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.
14 And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in cone. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever.
Its not Joseph Smiths Church... its Jesus Christs. If you believe in the Bible as much as you say you do... then let me ask you this... who is the true Prophet on the Earth today? I can tell you for a fact that its Russell M. Nelson. Below are some amazing Bible References About
The Restoration. Either you believe in the Bible or you dont... choose for yourself!
Amos 3:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
In this verse, we are assured that God would not do anything drastic without first warning us through his prophets. This was true of the flood when He warned Noah. Before God destroyed Sodom He warned Abraham. Prophets foretold the signs of the birth of Jesus Christ, foretold His ministry, and prophesied His Crucifixion and Atonement. Why is it so hard to believe that God would send prophets to prepare the world for the Second Coming? God has sent us modern day prophets to proclaim His will to prepare us for the "great and terrible day of The Lord". Of course, the prophet won't know the exact day, since no one knows that except God. I thank my Father in Heaven for not leaving us in darkness by sending prophets to prepare us to meet the Savior.
Ephesians 4:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
This verse teaches that Christ did in fact organize and ordain priesthood leaders, and it explains why the priesthood is necessary. For perfecting the saints, (notice the word "saints" is used to describe regular members of the church, not special ones), the work of the ministry, and for edifying the church. All priesthood functions in the LDS Church fall under these criteria.
Isaiah 2:2-3
King James Version (KJV)
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."
Isaiah is giving a prophecy of what will happen in the last days before Christ's Second Coming. Isaiah prophesies that a temple of God will be built in the tops of the mountains, and that all nations will flow into it. This verse is referring to the Salt Lake City Temple and the LDS Conference center, in Salt Lake City, Utah. This temple was built in the Rocky Mountains. The word "Utah", which is a Native American word assigned to the state by a member of congress, means "tops of the mountains". After its completion, church members from all over the world immigrated to Utah so they too could go to the house of the Lord. Even to this day, Temple Square receives over a million visitors from various regions each year. The Conference Center is the site of the Church's semi-annual general conference where people from all over the world are taught the ways of the Lord, and Salt Lake City hosted the 2002 Winter Olympics. This appears to be a literal fulfillment of Isaiah's visions.
Isaiah 29:14
King James Version (KJV)
"Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid."
The Lord restoring the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthood keys and authority, restoring the true gospel of Jesus Christ, and once again leading the Church by Revelation is the marvelous work and wonder. No longer are people left to their own understanding, but can rely once again on the words of the Lord as taught by His modern holy prophets.
Daniel 2:34-35, 44
King James Version (KJV)
"Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. ... and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."
When the LDS Church was first organized in 1830, there were 6 members. As of 2020, there are over 16,500,000 members in over 30,000 congregations worldwide, with the majority outside the United States. Over 130,000,000 copies of the Book of Mormon have been published since 1830, in 189 languages. The Restored Church of Jesus Christ is the stone that was cut without hands and is filling the whole Earth. And, as was prophesied in this dream, The LDS Church shall stand forever.
Malachi 3:1 & 4:5-6
King James Version (KJV)
"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
This prophesy was fulfilled April 3, 1836, when Elijah the Prophet did come suddenly to the Temple in Kirtland, Ohio, and bestowed the sealing keys of the priesthood to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery to prepare the way for the Second Coming. It wasn't long after this event that genealogical societies starting popping up across the country. Today family history searches is one of the most popular hobbies in the U.S. and on the Internet.
Acts 3:19, 21
King James Version (KJV)
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."
In this verse, Peter is preaching that before the Second Coming of Christ, there will be a "refreshing" of the church, and this refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. The refreshing was the restoration of Christ's gospel, by Christ Himself through the prophet Joseph. This "refreshing" will end the apostasy, and prepare the world for the coming of Christ. The restitution, or restoration, of all things means that the priesthood and all the truths and practices that will be lost through the centuries will be restored. This teaching by Peter and the prophets has been fulfilled in this dispensation.
Acts 3:22
King James Version (KJV)
"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you."
In the same passage as the previous prophecy of the restoration, Peter teaches a prophecy of Moses that God will raise up another prophet comparable to Moses at the "time of refreshing". This means that the prophet will also see and speak with God, face to face and will lead by Jesus' revelations. We believe this prophet, of course, was Joseph Smith. God spoke to Joseph, using him to organize His church on the earth once again, just as was done in Moses' day. It is also interesting to note that Brigham Young received the nickname, American Moses, because of his role in the Mormon Exodus, leading the saints through the wilderness to the "promised land" where the church would grow and flourish.
Ephesians 1:10
King James Version (KJV)
"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"
We are now in the dispensation of the fullness of times, and The Lord has indeed gathered all things in Him, including the priesthood, the gospel, a Divinely led church and the covenants and promises of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and has restored them all, preparatory for His Coming.
Revelation 14:6-7
King James Version (KJV)
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."
This verse talks about an angel flying in heaven, carrying with it the everlasting gospel. This verse is referring to the angel Moroni, who directed Joseph Smith to the location of the golden plates, now known as the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon has, within its pages the everlasting gospel of Christ. Coupled with the Bible, it declares and testifies to "every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people that Jesus is the Christ".
@macolyis of course not, just like the Pharisees didnt interpret as Jesus did. There is much missing from the Bible! Who knows what all of those books have said.
SURELY THE LORD GOD SHALL DO NOTHING EXCEPT HE REVEALETH HIS SECRETS UNTO THE SERVANTS THE PROPHETS!!!!!! LOL have a good day
Contents of The Lost Books of the Bible
♦ = attributed to the Apostolic Fathers
The Protevangelion
The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus King of Edessa
The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate)
The Apostles' Creed (throughout history)
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca's to Paul
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
♦ The Epistles of Clement (The First and Second Epistles of Clement to the Corinthians)
♦ The Epistle of Barnabas
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
♦ The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes)
Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor
Letter of Pilate to Herod
The Lost Gospel of Peter
♦ The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians
Contents of The Forgotten Books of Eden
The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan (The First and Second Book of Adam and Eve)
The Secrets of Enoch (also known as the Slavonic Enoch or Second Enoch)
The Psalms of Solomon
The Odes of Solomon
The Letter of Aristeas
The Fourth Book of Maccabees
The Story of Ahikar
Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
Great convo
You are very good at this!
Great work, Raul! Without being too formulaic, you turned this potentially mundane meeting into a meaningful conversation. And I loved how you at the end, shared some of your own story without imposing any of it's implications on your interviewees. A good SE-conversation doesn't have to refrain from talking about your own personal beliefs, as long as the timing is right and it is done in a respectful manner. You showed how you once started to question your own ways of thinking, and that very human kind of vulnerability does really make a lasting impression. 10/10!
Great talk!👍 They're young enough to think their way out of these beliefs.
i love your videos
Things I do not desire:
Holy ghosts ✔
Eternal life ✔
Seeing Gods ✔
Be back with family members ✔
Sounds like you've had a shitty go. God bless you
You got the woman in red thinking.
I thought so too. At some points I would ask a question, and as Sister Lima was answering, you could see that Sister Wadsworth was caught up in thought.
@@raulcardona4491 Everyone that leaves the Church like this abandons how they first came to know it was true for themselves in the first place. Asking Heavenly Father through "Prayer" if its true! There is so much evidence for the Book of Mormon, even archaeologically. For example, check out "Wayne May" who presents archaeological support of the Book of Mormon... th-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/w-d-xo.html . Honestly, It all comes down to prayer in the end to know of the Truth. Let me ask you a serious question... if you were around during Jesus Christ's time and he claimed that he was the savior of the World... how would you know to follow him or know the statement he made is true? Another scenario... Let’s even take a prophet or even an apostle from that same time period... how would you know they were a true prophet/apostle and to follow their teachings? Prayer is the only answer my Brother to testify to your soul of that truth! If you are not willing to take the step of prayer and would rather sit back on the sidelines watching everything unfold without being part of it... than I feel sorry for you. Communication with God is the real source of truth... End of story! This is how you will know if the "Book of Mormon" is true! Not by listening to someone who I would compare to the Pharisees who were very smart and learned deceiving the masses. Most people are being led by the blind and are SIGN based seekers, instead of FAITH based seekers. Here it is directly from our Bible (the word of GOD) ... ask Heavenly Father if the Book of Mormon is true, AFTER reading it and the content inside! This process weeds out the wheat from the tares. James 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 BUT LET HIM ASK IN FAITH, NOTHING WAVERING. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If you have not learned how to communicate with Heavenly Father through prayer and are not able to do something as simple as ask him for an answer and wait for him to reveal it to you by the Spirit/Holy Ghost... then I am afraid you are very far from the target and have not taken that next step in your life of truly relying upon Faith by Prayer! Stop being deceived by Men and start relying upon Heavenly Father for answers and insight of truth! We were also told before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ... that there would be a period in the Church where there would be a grand separation of the "Wheat from the Tares". And as we can see... it's happening right before our eyes! Much love to you Brother!
@@thebasiclute oh just knock it off
@@jbgem82 Everything I said is absolutely true!
i like how you started with evaluation of their method of how they came to “know” what they know. and then proposed using the same method in an abstract (to them) concept.
its very interesting (and frustrating) to me when the religious react as if they’ve never thought of it in that way.
So keep praying until you feel calm. Then you know it's true. Got it.
18:14 Yes means yes, No means Yes but you just have to wait for it or try harder because you're not open to hearing Yes. Double bind.
Savant Yes!!
The woman in red is having thoughts. Your outsider test came right on cue.
The problem is that, had they been able to dissect his question, they would realize that they wouldn't agree with the premise of his question. Notice how they answered his hypothetical situation under the presumption that their beliefs are correct _and they didn't realize it._ They completely side stepped the point he was trying to make with his scenario and didn't even realize it.
The way in which they just _speak_ about their beliefs reinforces the beliefs! The way the belief system and language is set up _prevents_ them from entertaining the possibility that they might be wrong. And these mechanisms have nothing to do with "spirituality" or "the supernatural" existing. It's language. It's psychology. That's what's so bad about these kinds of belief systems. They are an intellectual robbery of countless peoples' minds.
The entire scam mechanism uncovered within the first 10 minutes. You've perfected that method to the highest levels.
Everyone that leaves the Church like this abandons how they first came to know it was true for themselves in the first place. Asking Heavenly Father through "Prayer" if its true! There is so much evidence for the Book of Mormon, even archaeologically. For example, check out "Wayne May" who presents archaeological support of the Book of Mormon... th-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/w-d-xo.html . Honestly, It all comes down to prayer in the end to know of the Truth. Let me ask you a serious question... if you were around during Jesus Christ's time and he claimed that he was the savior of the World... how would you know to follow him or know the statement he made is true? Another scenario... Let’s even take a prophet or even an apostle from that same time period... how would you know they were a true prophet/apostle and to follow their teachings? Prayer is the only answer my Brother to testify to your soul of that truth! If you are not willing to take the step of prayer and would rather sit back on the sidelines watching everything unfold without being part of it... than I feel sorry for you. Communication with God is the real source of truth... End of story! This is how you will know if the "Book of Mormon" is true! Not by listening to someone who I would compare to the Pharisees who were very smart and learned deceiving the masses. Most people are being led by the blind and are SIGN based seekers, instead of FAITH based seekers. Here it is directly from our Bible (the word of GOD) ... ask Heavenly Father if the Book of Mormon is true, AFTER reading it and the content inside! This process weeds out the wheat from the tares. James 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 BUT LET HIM ASK IN FAITH, NOTHING WAVERING. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If you have not learned how to communicate with Heavenly Father through prayer and are not able to do something as simple as ask him for an answer and wait for him to reveal it to you by the Spirit/Holy Ghost... then I am afraid you are very far from the target and have not taken that next step in your life of truly relying upon Faith by Prayer! Stop being deceived by Men and start relying upon Heavenly Father for answers and insight of truth! We were also told before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ... that there would be a period in the Church where there would be a grand separation of the "Wheat from the Tares". And as we can see... it's happening right before our eyes! Much love to you Brother!
27:15 It sounds like what you could say about your method of predicting rain until it started raining.
So... God loves me and has a plan for me - to be uncomfortable. But I'm going to pray for comfort. Maybe I should just leave god alone.
He's going to act according to his plan. So why pray?
So believe in God first then pray to find out if he's real? Whaaaaaat?
Right?! I can't believe I ever listened to this BS.
Well, it doesn't make much sense to pray to a God you don't believe is real, does it? I believe God is real, and the very night after reading the book of mormon, I prayed to God if it is was real, and received a dream. I'll spare you the details, but the message I got was to absolutely NOT throw in my lot for salvation with the mormons because they believed in an idol that is a small imitation of THE God.
@@michaelscott873 There you go.
I reckon most of people's knowledge of Mormonism comes from South Park.
I've spent a lot of time talking with Mormons and studying their 3 extra biblical texts, and Southpark was not far off, funny enough.
I was disappointed in this discussion. Either the guy really wasn't understanding the girls or he was really trying to force them to agree to his understanding so that he could manipulate the conversation to go where he wanted it to. No matter how many times they kept saying "I didn't already know it was true, but I had a presupposition about whether I'd get an answer", he kept twisting it to be that they didn't even need to ask because they were already biased toward what the answer was going to be and therefore the likely received that answer because that was the answer that they wanted. Poor practice of epistemology if you ask me. These girls did a pretty good job explaining that physical experiments are not equally comparable or analogous to metaphysical experiments.
Great talk! Do you find having two ILs is more difficult, as they can influence each other's answers?
Shane Pierce I do find that to be the case. It's definitely a challenge, but I thought I was able to go back and forth between these two okay.
Great!
I'll be watching more of these videos.
At 22:30 Sister Wadsworth (?) was fiddling around with her wrist watch and appeared to be uncomfortable. I wonder what you could have done to relax her up a bit...? I could be wrong but she looked like she was mentally, on her way out. She was becoming even more defensive. I think it was the question: How can you falsify your method, or what would make your method invalid...I wonder if re-wording that question or building up to it would cause her to really think honestly about the question rather than being defensive? Though, perhaps there wasn't much you or I or anyone could do, perhaps it was just enough for the gears to start working...
I think, having them challenge their own beliefs is brilliant.
Thanks for your upload.
Promise me I'll be a million miles away from my family members (not all of them and I'll be joining soon )!!!!
Got the popcorn... hit it
Jump up and down and scream "it's going to rain, it's going to rain" and then wait--- and wait--- eventually it will rain and you can say "Hey look I was right" Heads you win Tails you win. This is so sad.
Everyone that leaves the Church like this abandons how they first came to know it was true for themselves in the first place. Asking Heavenly Father through "Prayer" if its true! There is so much evidence for the Book of Mormon, even archaeologically. For example, check out "Wayne May" who presents archaeological support of the Book of Mormon... th-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/w-d-xo.html . Honestly, It all comes down to prayer in the end to know of the Truth. Let me ask you a serious question... if you were around during Jesus Christ's time and he claimed that he was the savior of the World... how would you know to follow him or know the statement he made is true? Another scenario... Let’s even take a prophet or even an apostle from that same time period... how would you know they were a true prophet/apostle and to follow their teachings? Prayer is the only answer my Brother to testify to your soul of that truth! If you are not willing to take the step of prayer and would rather sit back on the sidelines watching everything unfold without being part of it... than I feel sorry for you. Communication with God is the real source of truth... End of story! This is how you will know if the "Book of Mormon" is true! Not by listening to someone who I would compare to the Pharisees who were very smart and learned deceiving the masses. Most people are being led by the blind and are SIGN based seekers, instead of FAITH based seekers. Here it is directly from our Bible (the word of GOD) ... ask Heavenly Father if the Book of Mormon is true, AFTER reading it and the content inside! This process weeds out the wheat from the tares. James 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 BUT LET HIM ASK IN FAITH, NOTHING WAVERING. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If you have not learned how to communicate with Heavenly Father through prayer and are not able to do something as simple as ask him for an answer and wait for him to reveal it to you by the Spirit/Holy Ghost... then I am afraid you are very far from the target and have not taken that next step in your life of truly relying upon Faith by Prayer! Stop being deceived by Men and start relying upon Heavenly Father for answers and insight of truth! We were also told before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ... that there would be a period in the Church where there would be a grand separation of the "Wheat from the Tares". And as we can see... it's happening right before our eyes! Much love to you Brother!
I can make the rain dance and it only rains 20 days later (or it rains somewhere else), so I conclude that it works, it just takes time because god know when is the right time (or right place) for you. Hum.....suuuuure !!!
I would love to know if this gentleman has read The Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ?
Karl Shaner I have read portions of it. And I am familiar with its contents. I totally understand why someone might find encouragement from it, especially if they were raised in a Mormon culture. But that doesn't mean it's true. To verify whether or not it's true, I think, takes more than a feeling of peace while reading it.
@@raulcardona4491 I agree it can be more than a feeling...Like evidence showing it as true through the Bible and other known sources and discoveries. The Holy Ghost is a key to truth, but when a man learns such by way of the Holy ghost it is on him to search out the works of God to add credence to the subject. As such I know with every part of intellect within me that it is true and shows forth the testimony and works of God.
Karl Shaner I'm interested in hearing more about why you believe in what you believe. Do you want to do a recorded discussion on my channel?
@@raulcardona4491 No thanks but appreciate the offer. I am just a 60 something person who studies the scriptures as best I can. After some point, all men must learn how to spot the works of God from scripture and through time, including there own. As a believer in the Bible(You are I take it?), I am sure you know that the Lord teaches through multiple methods and one of them is similitudes. There are some striking similitudes that can only be found in The Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ that shows his works clearly. I hope you take the time to study the book with more thoroughness than you have spoken of previously. May you always search for truth in honesty and a love for all that comes forth from God for his children.
10:15 you need faith because you have to overcome doubt, but pretty much all believers believe 100%, so that makes faith redundant. god doesn't reveal himself cos you need to overcome doubt, but you already believe in god....religion is mysterious.
Looks like the one in red started to think. 27:36
Believer ~ "you have to test your faith!!"
SK ~ "How do you test your faith?"
Believer ~ "by having faith"
SK ~ "so you don't actually test your faith?"
Believer ~ "you have to test your faith!!"
10:00 confirmation, like confirmation bias. I was like that sister missionary on the left on why “I knew” Mormonism is true. Thank goodness I no longer believe Mormonism.
It's so sad when you come across nice, pleasant people who are unable to get their heads around the most basic principles of sceptical and rational thought. The lass on the left basically repeated an utterly circular argument to justify her "confirmation" through prayer (she needed faith already in order for her faith to be confirmed and her prayer answered...) and she thinks that a personal feeling of positive hope is a message from her god - and doesn't see how ridiculous this is. Even the 'Outsider Test' didn't seem to shake either of them, and the Brazilian woman seemed not to understand that the various god-beliefs that could be confirmed by this same method were incompatible - believing in Shiva or Zoroaster, or that Mohamed was the last and final prophet of God, is simply not compatible with Christianity or with Mormonism, so saying that people will all find their own way to God is just avoiding the question. We cannot prove that there is no god, but we can prove absolutely that Joseph Smith was a charlatan and a liar and that his works were man made fiction, because we have the documentary and historical proof of this. His claims to have translated an ancient Egyptian manuscript were comprehensively debunked when the Rosetta Stone was translated and he was shown to be lying (again). And no-one who knows the history of Mormonism can doubt that the continuing 'revelations' were simply pragmatic adaptations to a changing world (and it still took them until 1977 to accept that black people were not an inferior race carrying the 'mark of Cain').
Altogether an interesting conversation... but I have two corrections. Firstly; it is absolutely possible to disprove the Exodus story (and the historical claims in the book or Mormon come to that) because the axiomatic phrase 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' is sometimes just plain wrong, and the sudden departure of nearly a million people from Egypt, and their wanderings in Sinai for four decades before supposedly launching their war of genocide in Judea, would definitely have left physical evidence - and the absence of any such evidence is indeed proof that these events did not occur. Secondly, Brazil is in America (last time I looked at an Atlas or Google Earth anyway) and if it had managed to migrate to another continent then this would be proof positive of the supernatural. Brazil is the second largest state in America (by population) and the third largest by land area (after Canada and the USA). America is a continent, not a country... I wish the Yanks would try and get this through their heads.
#1 reason why its important to teach from their birth.
I thought of all this stuff when I was a mormon missionary but felt trapped in the religion in spite of realizing that "my desire of wanting it to be true" was making me delusional. Unfortunately so much of my life and future was tied to the religion (my education, my family, etc). I pity these missionaries and my past self. "True, true, true...." makes me wanna vomit. Your feelings are not God speaking to you. You feelings are not objective evidence.
I wanted it to be true, and when i prayed about it, i got the answer that it was true.
You don't say?
Great conversation but I feel you talked too much towards the end. It could spur them on to seek out more apologetics to counter your stance. Good conversation otherwise
word of advice; don’t say “i don’t believe in god.”
it can be seen as implying that A god exists but you just don’t believe in him.
Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:14.
As a former mormon/missionary this was next level cringe inducing to watch.
Poor girl rearranged her whole life to move to another continent to spread the gospel and meets you. Poor thing
Wow. What a lot of nonsense from these two
It's always disturbing when someone refers to the United States as "America"
America is a continent.
@heycrip Well if you invade countries to appropiate their resources, it's even a patriotic action join army in order to go killing and stealing abroad, no surprise you appropiate the name of the continent with X excuses.
@@carlose5751 It's "The Americas" when you're talking about the entire North and South American continents. It's "America" when you're talking about the United States.
Poor lost souls preaching a false Christ