Tampering with a "One Time Padlock"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Yes, Tarah turned the name of this product into an encryption joke. That's why I love her.
As you can see, this product isn't really a proper security seal. I suppose that if someone didn't know these were available for retail purchase, they are a very subtle tamper barrier? But since they're available retail..
allpadlocks.co...
... if you do a lot of work pen testing against utility companies, these are available to you it would seem. 🤷
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From my experience, these are mainly used on transformers, switchgear, and junction boxes. They aren’t for tamper-evidence, rather to deter curious kids/idiots from opening up a high voltage cabinet. They’re a good way to keep honest (and smart) people out the same as a padlock, while not requiring linemen to keep track of another key.
I've saw a few in my town that didn't have the heads snapped off.
Explains why aluminium is good enough. I guess the lineman just uses small bolt cutters to remove?
@@MurrayC when I worked there, just normal bolt cutters, though I have no doubt that the newer mini bolt cutters could cut them
i haven't seen these specific models before, but they strike me as a personal lockout device- something an engineer can use to stop people from re-energising a circuit they've shut down while they're working on it, the idea being that they themselves will snip the lock when they are safely out of danger. if that's the case you'd have to be one cold bastard to mess with it...
@@boeufkak for lockout, you want something individually keyed. It could be easy to mix up which lock you’re cutting, and with complex lockouts, it’s important that everyone knows that their lock is still there and only removable by them.
As someone who works around them, most of the time it's to protect people from themselves who would try opening up the switchgear to get the energized shiny stuff and electrocute themselves like a mosquito in a light. Glad it's a good time waster when breaking in.
Always good to consider actual applications when testing something! Here it's just a very firm "Keep Out" sign rather than a security defense. So really more of a liability thing, where if someone bypasses it, you can definitely blame it on them for being in a place they really shouldn't be, since it took them noticeable effort to bypass this lock. And making them very cheap and thus disposable means you don't need to worry about any mechanical parts of a real lock failing under weathering.
You nailed it. Plus if it gets rusty tetanus is a pretty good deterrent too. Besides the usual high voltage warning signs and barbed wire/chainlink fence.
We use different ones to prevent breakers from opening while we're working. Deviant and LPL would make a joke of them but they work well enough.
Speaking from experience I can get through that cheap aluminum lock in a minute or two
The bolt cutters I brought for the copper will also work😮
@@mybackhurts7020 That's the point. You need tools to break it and then the company can hold you responsible for any damage to the equpment or deny responsibility if you get injured.
@Rich Cran There's no reason to open up the rear of switchgear if every bolt is torqued right as there's no moving parts just busses. Two pieces of aluminum is cheaper than being forced to open a charred corpse and shut down power. It's not just coworkers but trespassers.
So glad you didn't accidentally knock over your drink when shearing off that bolt! 😀
I just hope it did not taste like Aluminium and Dremel dust
@@DeDeNoM I don't know if that is better or worse than spilling it! 😀
I thought about that! (At least I got a little aluminum flavor in the drink, lol)
@@DeviantOllam I'm sure I have drunk worse! 😀
I was so nervous the whole time
IIRC aluminum galls really badly when you use it in a screw like setting. This can cause some cold welding and binding. Basically makes it a pain in the ass to remove which seems to be the point here.
Especially if this is made of a cheap grade that'll easily corrode in the weather.
I was going to mention the same. I learned my lesson on aluminum cold welding at a previous job I worked. I was screwing an aluminum pipe fitting on top of an aluminum compressor pump block on an aftermarket a/c system for a school bus. It cross threaded without me realizing it until it was about half way screwed in. By the time I realized what happened it had cold welded and basically ruined that block, ~$1500 part. I'm surprised I didn't get canned. Never did get that fitting out.
I'm curious if using a proper wrench would be more likely to cause that then the nut fucker Dev used. I'm wondering if the uneven loading might have popped the head prematurely.
did it leak? if not, it's done : P
@@BEdmonson85 I work at a sheet metal company and the amount of money we lose from stupid mistakes is astounding and nobody gets fired for it. Just the other day my coworker cut the wrong gauge 316 stainless. Around 6 sheets , 4000$ down the drain just like that
Anyone else have massive anxiety about how the shot of whiskey almost getting knocked over.
You're not alone!
It's later also flavored with aluminium and grinding disk particles.
*ALCOHOL ABUSE!*
5:08 Aluminum easily work-hardens and that's exactly what made your progress so difficult. The action of twisting off the head is what makes the body of the bolt a little bit harder and more brittle.
It would be kinda neat to use a plain steel screw into an aluminum body, and electrolyte paste, and an electrical charge to quickly weld the two together so that the screw *couldn't* come out again. That's not really practical though, since that takes more time, and the point of these is that they're fast.
Interesting! Would that change anything if the screw-in was done fast, say using a drill?
@@350606 no. would still take the same amount of force to shear the bolt. using a drill would only make the process easier on the human operator.
i am thinking that when these are properly used.. there is a tamper sticker applied over the snapped bolt end that does has a serial number on it?? it looks flat enought to allow for that? And with that in place.. it would make it harder to stry to dislodge the bolt? And if the sticker is hidden under a coat of specialty paint.. could furterh make it more difficult to remove without evidence of tampering? Or applying the tamper sticker over the specialty paint or over partially over specialty paint?
An alternative to milling a slot to unscrew it would be to drill a pilot hole and then tap it, but using a thread that goes the opposite way to the security screw's thread, then you put another bolt into the tapped hole and if you keep twisting when it bottoms out, it _should_ then start to unscrew the security bolt, this way there would be virtually no chance of marring the shackle and leaving evidence of the tamper.
I love that idea! I bet that tapping might not even be needed with a steel reverse bolt since the steel would likely cut into the aluminum
Isn't that basically how a screw extractor is supposed to work?
@@DeviantOllam but this could enlarge the aluminum bolt and make it bite even more into the threads. I would go with tapping it ore use a bolt remover.
@@TheMyname707 valid, valid. I plan on trying a number of techniques just because it sounds fun. :-)
@@AalbertTorsius sure, but an extractor doesn`t have any features to cut through the metal. What would be nice for this purpose is a links bolt with grooves cut in it like a sheet metal fastener. It would just dig in until it had enough purchase to drive it all out.
We used to love these for the fences around cell sites and remote central offices. They were great because it was one less key to manage, especially with 3rd party vendors. They were never really intended for security as such (that was the doors on the equipment shelters that were tied back into our central access control system) but to keep people, especially kids, away from our towers.
in order to make the tampering less conspicuous, i would probably go with your screw extractor idea, but using those extractors that are made like a left handed tap. a small hole with a cordless is all it needs to bite into the aluminium. In a pinch if i had no extractors i could use a small drill bit and then hammer in a fitting torx bit.
"Every tool's a hammer" is also a book by Adam Savage
And every screwdriver is a chisel and a pry bar.
@@SeanBZA and i've got the scars to prove it ;)
Which in turn is also a hammer again by Peter Brown.
I heard it from a Red Green impersonator. "Every tool's a hammer except a screwdriver and that's a chisel."
I think a left handed, or reverse twist drill bit would probably do a better job at not leaving marks on the crossbar. They're handy when drilling out broken screws as if the bit catches, it'll often spin the screw out before you dig out the screw/bolt extractor.
Left hand drill bit is my bet too, it's unfortunate that because of the snapped head there's no good way to have a serial number on the "bolt"
@@hannahranga maybe with a set number of dashes and dots in the form of holes and spaces along the threads, like holes through and spaces between the holes. Or slot the actual threads themselves in a serialized fashion.
yup bolt extractor would 100% do it every time with no marks. Drill a hole then just reverse thread it out. I guarantee that is a lot easier to extract than a broken off rusty bolt.
Love your videos! Automotive mechanic by trade, shear bolts are very common on vehicle ignitions. Usually easily removed with a left handed drill bit(steel bit vs aluminum bolt) or failing that a screw extractor in the drilled hole. If there is lots sticking out a punch and hammer also works. A impact screw driver would also work if you cut the slot in the bolt, the harder you hit the impact driver the more the bit would dig in to the soft bolt.
twist off bolts are the coolest thing. you usually can find them as the fasteners holding transmission line separator thingies onto the power lines. there are some great youtube videos of linesmen zipping huge twist off bolts onto those line separators, and they just drop the bolt heads down the 100 feet or so lol. its a pretty genius way to do very fast and repeatable high torque fasteners.
You can usually find a plastic version holding toilet seats on too
This piece is such a masterfully elegant design, even if it's not totally foolproof. What a lovely combination of material science and mechanical engineering. And hey, question -- if you put some loctite on the screw, do you think you'd be able to get it out at all?
With loctite the toque to remove the bolt could easily be higher than the shear strength of evena deep slot cut in its head.
Considering as this is designed to be never removed, I wouldn't even bother with loctite. I'd go straight to the super glue, and turn the thing into a single welded piece. But definitely a case where nobody wants to play with this thing.
Red loctite could make this thing the devil to remove by unscrewing.
So to make this a security lock you'd just need to move that shear point into a sort of bowl shape around in the center of the threaded column and use some threadlock that works with aluminum.
Additionally some form of heat sensitive ink stamp over the bolt entry and where the shackle meets the body.
This covers most of the issues which would allow undetected entry into the lock while keeping it removable when ready. For permanent locks an ATM dye could be put in a transparent shackle and body with two valve like bolts, inserting both bolts punctures the lock body and shackle at both sides, forming a complete loop of slightly pressurized dye. Alternatively you could inscribe some piles of dye powder with very detailed patterns, these piles would crumble when the lock is disturbed.
I'm impressed too. Imagine a (slightly wider?) lock body stamped with a counterfeit-resistant die mark.
I have used something similar working in a maintenance, we fitted them then stamped our I'd number across the stumb of the bolt and the body, the extra deformation from the stamping helped lock the thread even more and was identifiable if it had been tampered with
If those things are unnumbered and disposable the main threat will always be someone throwing a new one on.
"Every tool is a hammer" - then every problem looks like a nail.
But not every tool is a hammer. People always forget the second half of the proverb. "Every tool in the shop is a hammer, except for chisels, those are screwdrivers."
I have a very similar "security feature" on the ignition of my 1976 Triumph Spitfire. This was in the early days of the mandate to have anti-theft features like a steering column lock. To meet the mandate Triumph mounted the ignition switch on the steering column where the ignition lock could also activate a latch that would fall into a keyway on the steering shaft when released. The easiest way to defeat this was simply to unbolt the ignition lock form the steering column. So they used bolts with self-shearing heads to attach the lock assembly. When I bought this car the previous owner managed to loose the keys between the time that I test drove it and the time I went back to pick it up. Thereby hangs a tale. Replacing the lock cylinder involved removing the shelf shearing bolts. This was not too difficult to accomplish with a chisel and hammer. The interesting thing is, they shear at a pretty low torque (quite a bit less than the device you show here). So unless there is pretty significant corrosion on the threads, it doesn't take much to get them loose again. And of course the electrical connections for the ignition switch just plug into the back of the assembly. So sealing the car would be pretty trivial. Just loosen those two bolts, jump a couple pins on the connector and away you go. Assuming the electrical system decided to work at all that day.one
Remember to always throw metal shavings directly at your drink while drimalling.
Wire is plain extruded aluminium, along with the shackle. However the screw has been work hardened by the forming of the bolt, leading to it being a harder material than the shackle, and likely the material is slightly different alloy with a little added silicon, and then it is cut into slugs, and then formed with a press into the head, and then roll formed to get the threads, probably followed with a quick milling to get the break line on the head. The act of shearing the material work hardens it even more at that surface, making it want to bind, and the threads also deform.
Yes likely used as a low security lock, more to prevent wind opening things, and keep latches closed, not as any form of security, just provide some closing that is going to show tampering. Would bet it is possible to simply bend the shackle enough to open it, and then close again without leaving too many marks.
Ahh yes a wind proof lock. The only way to keep wind from opening things
@@potatopobobot4231 Just one step up from the standard scrap piece of fence wire, in that to the utility this has one important thing, a manufacturer part number, plus installation instructions, and most importantly, a per unit price to use for billing.
The screw extractors that require you to drill a small hole and then run the extractor in would probably take these out without too much issue and would be a lot easier than trying to dremel
Just by the way, adjustable wrenches are directional, you're supposed to use them with the solid anvil facing away from the direction you're turning, or opposite of what was done in this video. You can put much more pressure on the wrench that way without messing up the adjustment, and it won't knock it loose with the application of torque either
This is a very old myth. I won't rule out that there's some truth to it around the margins, but if there's a difference in performance based on direction, it's trivial.
You may be able to use a left handed drill bit to back the screw out.
If silence isn't an issue (and hey, Dremel, right?), you could probably also use an impact driver (the handheld variety, not the power tool) to help avoid the destruction of the slot.
Why not the power tool?
If silence isn't an issue just use a bomb
Hi, you should test if it cold welds the threads after a few days under pressure and if it's possible to release it then.
I also would try to drill a small pilot hole before using the bolt extractor to make it easier to punch it in for enaugh bite. The center does not give you much torque enyways but keeps you out of the material.
Tampering with a non serialized thing:
Replace it
Combining that with glitter nail polish, and that is an amazingly secure tamper-evident padlock. I would be surprised if there was a good defeat for it.
Reffering to the google paper about fingerprinting glitter nail polish.
Well, one side of the shackle is just pushed into a slightly larger hole. The only was to tamper with them that I see is to heat up the shackle and pull that free side out of its resting place.
Then again, you have to avoid burning up the nail polish while doing that.
Getting it both back in AND to the same consistent thickness might be a bit of a pain, though.
What I'm trying to say is that there's at least one attack that is *theoretically* possible.
That loophole would be possible to patch by making the shackle a 3/4 circle with a head on one end that you rotate through both "padlock" holes. I.e. "G" shaped instead of "U" shaped.
But apart from that, a seal over the screw would prevent pretty much all tampering. Unless someone had a way to copy the seal, or a way to get in between the screw tip and the shackle. The latter would have the problem of re-attaching the shackle into the "padlock piece", where "just use a bunch of glue" would only look right upon cursory inspection. Thus they both don't _seem_ possible to me.
I work as a Machinist. One of my most common jobs I get is removing bolts out that have been broken off in parts. Generally speaking it's a pretty easy thing to do, if the bolt is made out of steel stuck in steel, cast iron or aluminum. An aluminum bolt stuck in an aluminum part is nearly imposable to remove without destroying the threads. I'm pretty surprised you got them apart. most of the stuck bolts I deal with have been sitting for years though so that's probably why.
aluminum is sticky and it chews up bits i really hate aluminum
@@chrissherer2047 Was taught to drown my tools and the work piece in WD-40. It's a cheep cutting oil and it keeps the aluminum from sticking to your tooling just as well as purpose made coolants and oils. Gives you an excellent surface finish as well.
The frictional coefficient for dry aluminum to aluminum is 1.05 - 1.35, Higher than a tire on a dry road.
But yeah basically this thing is an aluminum zip tie, designed to go into any lock slot easy, and only come off with tools. This one is metal because the public includes people that randomly decide to cut zip ties because they were walking around with scissors, not many people randomly cut locks because they were walking around with bolt cutters.
Sheer bolts are also often used to hold car ignition lock cylinders into place. Fiat in particular uses them. We generally hit the smooth head with a small chisel at an angle counter clockwise. It's slow going at first, but after the first 90 degrees they come loose pretty easily. However, that bolt makes contact with steel. The fact that this digs into the aluminum will make it 10 times harder to remove.
Path of least resistance: Cut the shackle, pry or drill out the part that's actually locked in, install new shackle with a dab of super glue. What are the odds anyone would notice unless they already noticed the thing you unlocked had been tampered with?
The problem with aluminum and stainless for that matter is that without anti-seize on the threads is that it can gall up and basically weld to itself on a micro level. The aluminum body of lock appears to be extruded.
The same principle is used in cable splicing. I have successfully drilled and extracted those, even the larger ones that is about 2/3 inch size. Drill and use bolt extractor or hammer in a torx bit and back it out
I've used the "hammer in a torx bit" technique before, works well even on really small damaged screws or threads from snapped off bolts.
I love the phrase "involve your safety squints." No requirement that you actually wear them, but they should at least be there for moral support.
it's "engage your safety squints". "involve" makes literally zero sense.
you always have a pair of safety squints on you, safety squints refers to squinting in place of wearing safety goggles. it's confusing because it sounds like a nickname for safety goggles and people mistakenly use the term as such.
Idea for the future. There’s a difference between regular screwdrivers and gunsmith screwdrivers. Gunsmith drivers don’t have a bevel down to the flat tip like regular drivers. They’re designed that way so you get a better purchase in the screw heads and don’t risk damage by the tip skipping up and out. When it comes to collectibles and antique fire arms a messed up screw can make a difference in the value.
Apparently no one showed the correct way to use an adjustable wrench. The manner in which you are using the wrench tends to pull the movable jaw away from the body and puts great stress on thin part of the jaw, a major failure point. If you flip the wrench over, the force tends to push the jaw toward the fixed body of the wrench.
Hey D, I know this might seem weird, but I commented about your audio being kinda quiet a few months ago, and I can tell your audio since is way way better. Doubt you saw my specific comment but I can actually hear you now! (I'm a speaker boy 90% of the time and I really appreciate it)
Edit: Also, no inspector getting paid union wages is going to notice that small nick in the lock, they're going to glance at it, go "I know what it looks like when someone monkeys with these" and continue on with their miserable day lol
I have a few electrical panels around the backyard that I "locked" with bolts and nuts, so curious children don't mess with them. This padlock would be perfect there.
I wonder if you'd be able torch a zinc rod (those aluminum welding rod things you'll find at most hardware stores) onto the broken bolt, then grip the rod with a drill chuck to back it out. Of course if you mess up you've now welded the screw into the lock.
What a cool concept!
I do that sometimes to extract broken bolts with my wire welder, so that sounds like a solid idea.
Impact driver would make backing out the screw quite a bit easier.
At first I thought that it was a glass with oil or something, then I realized it was just a drink with no purpouse whatsoever.
Dude, clear your workspace from any intrussive object, that's how stuff happens
That's like the security bolts that are used on the ignition cylinder of cars.
Dealers can get them, technicians have to remove & replace them. The ignition lock housing is aluminum & the security bolts are steel, but they aren't too hard to remove with the right tools.
I'm a tech, the secret tools are a punch & hammer. Then a couple taps & the security bolts loosen. (I also use them on my car's licence plate)
Our mains connection boxes in Australia have a similar snapping bolt method, but it's to ensure you've installed the conductors at the right tension as they contain dissimilar metals (copper & aluminum) that live in an stainless tunnel.
I used to work at a lumber kiln on the maintenance crew and we'd use these everywhere. We would take a plastic security tag with the numbering on it and slip it inside the set screw part of the shackle. The set screw cuts the plastic tail short but it's still clamped in there. Not perfect but it did add a level of reassurance.
They make screw extractors that are made to go much deeper than what you had. You drill a center hole and the extractor screws into that hole. Guaranteed to work. Wouldn't leave any marks at all since you're only ruining that screw. Maybe you could get one out by vibrating the whole unit violently? Might loosen the screw without wrecking anything else. You'd keep the nub and the housing in tact that way maybe?
Hey Deviant, with the amount of force/effort you had to put into breaking that loose, do you think you could duplicate that if it were hangle from a shackle without a work bench to help hold it in place? If it were on a door hasp or similar, I could see being able to use the door as a workbench to help but if it were on a comms cabinet, power box, etc., you may not have anything behind it. I know it was tight to break loose, but its hard to to judge if you were putting any force into the workbench or not.
Makes me wonder if there's like micro welds going on on the screw (probably not but someone smarter tell me). Hmm, is it soft enough that a chisel could score it? Maybe we could literally cut the grove that way. Also thanks Tarah for the lovely nerd joke.
A thought:
I bet a few drops of thread lock would very effectively prevent this attack.
And a question:
Does driving it with an impact driver/wrench make a different? Maybe the impact would snap the head off earlier, leaving more meat to make a deeper slot without damage.
One simple hack to restore the security of this device might be to take a close-up photograph of where the bolt sheared. If it were replaced/redone, it might be extremely difficult or impossible to replicate the pattern of the sheared metal, so you could compare with photographs to determine tampering. Basically same trick as matching torn sides of a paper sheet.
A spring punch, a left handed drill bit, and something to grab it with so you don't drill your hand and you could have one of these off in about 20 seconds without making much noise. Still, they work well for the job they're meant to do.
Those type of snap-off bolts are used in other places. In cars they're sometimes used to secure things to dissuade tampering, such as the way ignitions are attached to the steering column. They'll often have a big flat head under where it twists off to give you something to grind a slot into to undo it.
I'd like to see you try a hammer actuated manual impact driver rather than a normal screwdriver, I think the shock load might make it significantly easier. They're great tools too.
good call. I couldn’t do half of my outdoor work without an impact driver.
I wonder how easy the shackle would break if you wiggled the lower end back and forth a couple of times. I bet that the 'set screw' introduces one heck of a weak point and once the shackle breaks removing the screw probably takes a lot less torque.
They make manual impact drivers where a hammer blow not only drives the bit in, but turns it.
One with a slide hammer & a linked base to rest the bolt on should make very quick work. A randomly dimpled bit might do the job without leaving conspicuous marks, but at this level of effort you can acquire a replacement screw
I love these kinds of videos! Exploration, experimentation, explaining something I would probably never encounter myself. Thank you so much for making this.
It could be cold welding and that's why its so difficult to remove
For preventing casual theft or entry it seems pretty good, lots cheaper than a padlock for effectively the same security value.
Crimped chain-link or crimped shackle is probably a better option.
My initial idea would have been to drill to small holes and use a pair of snap-ring pliers or one of those flat-head security screwdrivers.
"Torque to Yield" in the wild.
These seem perfect as lock-out devices rather than security devices, for making sure that people can't turn the power on and kill a sparky while they're working on something or prevent someone from accessing dangerous equipment without turning the power off rather than something designed to keep things secure. It's not impossible to break open or break into especially if you've got bolt cutters for B&E anyway but there's a huge difference in mentality for unlocking something that's clearly designed not to be opened 'ever' or at least not to be opened without extreme circumstances compared to unlocking something that has a key slot. Presumably if it is removable then it's at least relatively safe to remove it without concern and precautions to at least look inside, entering past one of these locks might be like slamming an Axe through a plasterboard wall, you're probably not going to hit anything that will kill you, pipes, electricity, 100Tonne boulder looking for a crack in the wall to bust through... but you can't know for sure
Had me on the edge of my seat worried you'd spill that delicious scotch.
It was tequila today, but yes, I considered those risks 😁
"Safety" while throwing metal shavings towards the uncovered shot about to be chugged.
Tamper evidents on electric meters are more to protect my own peace of mind as an honest person. I can look at the meter and see at a glance that it is as safe and untampered as when the lineman installed it.
There was once when I realized that it had been cut, so I called the utility and they came out, inspected, and resecured it. It's about making sure no one else is stealing power from me just as much as it is about me not stealing power from the utility.
Haven't watched the entire video, but you should try left-handed drill bits...they're great for backing out sheared machine screws, etc. Especially center-punched and pilot drilled.
Dev, look into jewellery Dremel bits if you need to make small cuts for a screwdriver. You can get circular heads that are 4-5mm wide, way easier to control and go deeper. I know it didn't work great here because it's so tight, but could still be useful.😉👍
Thanks for this suggestion. I am going to try to get some stripped and stuck bolts out of a brake reservoir on a motorcycle and those jewelry Dremel bits may allow me to salvage the plate!
“If in doubt, give it a clout”
When extracting a stuck fastener, if mild steel or something corroded in general coat it in some WD type oil, then bash the shit out of it, then un screw it.
If your feeling fancy you could hit it while also torquing the fastener or have a helping hand do that.
Few thoughts on screw extraction:
First, for the dremel, throw some painter's tape on there to protect the, uh, lockbody? You'd be surprised how durable it is if you haven't used it for protection when sanding/filing/grinding before.
Second, the slot could be cut a number of other ways. A slim file would be quiet and precise. Throw one in an air file to speed things up. A small burr or endmill in a dremel or pencil grinder could work, or even a cut down saw blade for an oscillating multitool if you could control it well enough. A hacksaw could also be used.
Third, left hand thread tapping or a proper screw extractor. Drill a hole, run in your extractor or left hand tap, extract.
Fourth, plug weld an aluminum nut on it so you can use a wrench.
And some other thoughts:
It's best for adjustable wrenches to be used the other way, so the moving jaw points in the direction of rotation. That way the forces won't tend to open the wrench up as much.
Snap On makes screwdrivers that grip better due to serrations on the blade. I've also seen some by I think Craftsman that had diamond grit to help grip. Gunsmiths also use special flat blade screwdrivers with parallel faces for use in slotted screws with actual vertical sided slots. This is to prevent cam out and marring of the screw or surrounding parts. Impact drivers can also help reduce cam out as well as stripping of the fastener.
Finally, I'm very glad you started using vice grips to hold the lock. I can't tell you the number of times I've had a driver slip out of a slotted screw and cut myself.
Snap-on's bits are from Williams (they bought the company a number of years ago). You can get the same serrated bits a lot cheaper if you get the Williams branded ones..
@@ZanHecht Good to know, thanks.
Wheres the sound? Guess I played the video so fast after being posted the sound wasn't there yet lol.
Your kitty is saying "I hope you didn't get aluminum shavings in your whisky"
Agreed about the drink -- I was worried
Something else to think about. This will probably be used outdoors and would oxidize a decent amount with time leaving a grey finish so you would get a good tamper tell using a new sacrificial bolt when shearing a new bolt head off. Shiny vs dull oxidized. Same if you used a brand new one, shiny vs oxidized
Do those vise grips have a cutter deep in the throat of the jaws? I would definitely have had go with those on the shackle. But, admittedly, hacking that screw was more fun, and makes one wonder if there would be a way to do it without leaving marks. But then, that should only matter if it had a serial number on it.
"Every tool's a hammer!"
Fuck, I feel that
I wasn't worried about your eyes but the position of the drink caused great consternation.
I was going to say its galled up until it came free.What they could do way make it so the screw deforms inside the housing by cutting a slot in the front part, thus splaying out and making it unable to screw out. Another way of attacking the pin would be to use a metal tube of the correct size to fit over the pin but inside the shakle, fashion saw teeth on it so you can mount it in a drill and just grind the end of the pin away.
I was scared for your beverage when you were torqueing that bolt.
Don't worry, he got plenty of aluminum dust in there.
@@F3Ibane for flavor! 😁
I think if you can procure this tamper lock, you will have defeated their 'security' but until then, this is good enough
Great Vid Dev. Just scheduled my Passport appointment. Thanks for the kick in the pants to get it done.
Proud of you for getting that done
I thought part of penetration testing was not leaving any evidence. XD Let's see how LPL deals with these, "padlocks."
With these locks, I commonly see them closing the covers to pad mount transformers, at grade, in the grass, getting regularly beat up by lawn care equipment. The merit in the reuse I see is that a new set might be a little suspicious, but a couple of extra dings on the old beat up one? No one will notice.
Love the name (even though the comparison is wrong).
For anyone who doesn't know:
One-time-pad is the ONLY 100% safe encryption method that will ever exist.
(mathematical proof for both claims exist)
For everyone outside of the US, the force required to shear that screwhead off at around 2:02, is about 6.78 Nm (Newton-meter) in Human-Friendly units.
Frankie cats are best cats 😸 Our Frankie cat of 20 years departed a few months ago. Best cat ever. 😻
Man even before you started this I was thinking, you know it cold welds right???? But after you were able to get the bolt out and saw the divit in the shackle, wow, I was dead wrong....they really should have made the treads a different alloy so it cold welds to the bolt.
While yes these are obtainable by anyone, a better version of these can
-engineer the lock body and bolt with aa thin colored coating such that any minute Dremel mishap sticks out like a sore thumb
-make the stamping in a very characteristic font
-make the bolts smaller and more brittle, making your dremeling-in-a-screwing-slot trick impossible as the amount of torque would be too much
I haven't seen those here in Australia. Fun to see "Mr Tamper Man" attack it. You must have been a curious cat in your past life!🐈😆👍
I am surprised that they aren't serialized or marked in some way as matching sets. An important part of security is catching break ins and I guess they're just counting on the fact that most thieves wouldn't replace a niche item like this.
I think if you need a serial, you'd just use a punch
With it being unpainted aluminium I wonder if gallium would spread from the threaded bolt into the lock chassis, or if you could attack the screw itself and leave the lock unharmed
With headless bolts, usually you want to back them out with like, a hammer and a screwdriver and just go around, but these look tight enough for that to not work
a dab of threadlocker before installation would defeat this attack.
I'm going to bet that the torque you applied to the bolt before the head broke off deformed the threads, preventing the bolt from being able to be backed off.
... Should have watched past the 5:00 mark before making that comment :D
Dev you give away so much stuff on this channel, for Halloween I want you to give yourself something - a nice set of spanners, or "wrenches" as you North Americans call them.
This device could potentially be upgraded by making the bolt so it mushrooms into a cavity on the inner part where the shackle resides. The bolt could be slotted and drilled partly hollow so the force causes it to deform and mushroom, making it almost impossible to back out and replace. Just an idea.
You should try still to use a high speed driver to drive the bolt in and shear it, I'm curious if it goes even deeper with more speed.
One way to make these "locks" (?) more tamper evident would be to have whoever installs them stamp a halmark or trademark onto the remaining bolt. As long as it is not easily found on amazon/ebay then there is a good chance it will not be easily duplicated. That added to identifying numbers or marks stamped into the body and shackle can make these much more effective as a tamper evident device.
Another simpler method would be to prick punch the exposed threads a few times as if it is a set screw that you do not want backing out. It will then be more difficult to back out and replace if the body or shackle had unique markings.
Loctite would also make this much harder to disassemble if there were some unique markings on the body and shackle to make it more effective as well.
Adding one of these along side some medium pick resistant and defeat resistant padlock could become a good deterrent if somebody's goal was just to have a look / tamper and not steal whatever is beyond the lock. A nice little curve ball that somebody with a pick set and custom tooling would not be expecting.
Perhaps if you had more purchase on the screw. There is a specialized screwdriver tip called a Hi-TORQUE which is like a flat-head but it has semicircular end to it (to match the dremmel hole) McMaster has them . Or you can do what gunsmiths do and just take a regular flat-head and shave it down to the right shape on a wheel or file.
i am wondering if the finished locked padlock would have some specialty paint applied to them that could also include a tamper sticker over the snapped off bolt end? or perhaps even just appling a tamper sticker over the snapped bolt end would be how these are properly finished as a tamper detection seal/lock?
These would be a really good tamper evident device with one modification. A "hallmark" style punch mark across the sheared bolt and the casing. This way it clocks the bolt and imbeds a custom marking that would not easily be reproduced.