HI George, I have watched this video a few times and just wanted to thank you for the tip about using brazing flux paste , it has been a while to see newer videos, hope you're doing fine health wise, you've been a mentor to many of us novices/ coppersmith wannabies, respect.
I am also fond of the contrasting aesthetics of bronze brazing over steel. As long as all flux is removed, I prefer painting over a braze welded joint since it is smoother than gas or electric welding. The flow characteristics of the filler assure there is little or no grinding needed.
Hey, great vid on metal brazing. I have been researching the past couple of years about metal sculpture so that I can get my style of work out of my head and your vids are a big help.I know asap I will be ordering your DVD, I can't wait.
I have learned a lot from your videos. One thing I'm having trouble figuring out, though, is brazing thicker pieces. Specifically I'm doing a decorative piece (steampunk style) with a steel gear (unknown alloy, machined easily enough) about 3/4" thick, and a large chunk of bronze (940, I think) about 3.5"x3". Workpieces are on a brick for insulation, with actual rock wool insulation loosely around the parts to hold the heat. I can't tell if my problem is that I simply can't pump in enough heat (using a semi compact torch with MAPP and oxygen, separate tanks), or if there's some other reason it won't flow. It seems like even if I were unable to get it hot enough to flow consistently because the parts are so large, I should at least be able to get this to flow in certain spots. I'm using the Lincoln brazing rods that are available at the home store (composition is not designated). I have burned through two oxygen tanks only to get one small area to stick to the steel, and I haven't been able to get any to stick to the bronze. Surely you can braze bronze with bronze filler?? It's a difficult subject to research because any search for "brazing" and "bronze" returns so many results about the different bronze filler options that I can't find anything about brazing a bronze workpiece. Anyway, I know that's not a lot to go on, but if it sparks any ideas please let me know. Thank you!
Thick metal takes a lot of heat. With a small torch I doubt whether you can get it hot enough to braze 3/4" or the chunk of bronze. I have a large torch and it would take me some time to get those pieces hot enough to accept the braze. Have you considered alternative ways to attach the parts? Silver solder takes less heat. Another way may be to drill and tap. Depending on how much stress is involved, you may get by with J&B Weld. I've never used Mapp gas so I can't help there.
I should mention that I preheated first to 500 degrees for 30 minutes in an oven, then further with a large propane torch (flame pattern on that one is far too broad to be useful in actually brazing these parts). So at that point I would think that my fairly small torch, with the 5000+° flame of MAPP+oxygen would be able to get a small area hot enough to flow the filler rod. I tried first to solder but had the same issue with the propane torch, then switched to the MAPP setup but it wasn't flowing much better, because the flux tends to burn by the time I've gotten enough heat into the part for the solder to flow. Frustrating process. Yes, no mechanical strength is needed for this, so any epoxy could work, but I would like to be able to achieve a brazed look at the joint. I may have to settle for not having that small fillet and coloration. Thanks again!
Without being there it is difficult to suggest anything further. I would try some thinner material. If that works then you will know it is insufficient heat.
Thanks so much George , I do remodeling and end up with lots of copper wire and had wondered if it would be usable as braze rod. You're video sure answered that. thanks again.
George Goehl I am totally new to welding, brazing etc. I do lots of plumbing in doing remodeling but always find welding and brazing very interesting. Never had oxyacetylene set. Just recently bought a uniweld set from a customer and am anxious to learn all the safety, and interesting things in working with it. That's why I asked about copper wire usage. Have even heard of practicing with clothes hanger wire. thanks for all your videos, they are so interesting and helpful.
When would you want to braze rather than just weld it? It seems as though welding would be faster, with a stronger bond, though i guess you don't have to heat is as much when you braze. I guess you would say that brazing works when metals are dissimilar, but are there other situation where brazing is preferable?
Appearance not desirable? Still, some truly expert techniques + a beautiful and solid final product. Listen to your elders! These Old Heads have -extremely- valuable knowledge and they are usually willing to share :o)
@spelunkerd Why braze? I do metal sculpture so the bronze color makes a good contrast with other metals. I'm not looking for exceptional strength. Plus, I like to braze Best plan is to know how to braze, silver solder, gas weld and electric weld. Then choose what's best for a specific application.
Amazing ! copper wire only wow !! i been thinking about finding me a hobby to do. and new to all this. thanks again . your newest subscriber to your channel. many blessing. .
You mention not being able to see. I hear that "tinmantech" has developed a special welding mask lens specific to this operation, that blocks the right wavelengths so as to prevent your corneas being burned out. Sounds cool. I'm curious about the strength of such a joint. I know you're an artist, I wonder whether copper wire would make a suitable brazing material for something structural, such as a bicycle or motorcycle frame. I heard certain brazing is stronger than mig/tig, such as aluminum...
for some reason i am having problems brazing 1/16 steel plates together using braided copper wire and oxy /mappro ,perhaps i should try it without the homemade flux and see if that works better but the problem is i keep getting scale buildup and having trouble getting capilary action in between the butt joint
As mentioned before, I know nothing about Mapp gas. Also, I've never used braided wire. I generally use a straight piece of 8 gauge copper wire. For capillary action there needs to be some space between pieces to be brazed. Something like a 1/64th of an inch or even less.
@SoyBoySigh Thanks for the comment. I'll check the mask lens out. I don't know what the strength factor would be using copper as the filler rod. Today there are so many metallurgical specific rods I'm sure there are filler rods far better than copper wire. This would be especially true for bicycle and motorcycle frames where a minimum of rod is needed.
Hey George at 2:27 do you recall wich was with flux and without? On the Left and on the Right? Also, is this same process possible on Stainless? Thanks!
@lingd8 I'm using acetylene. I've never used propane. You will just have to give it a try and see if it will do what you want it to do. It will be slower than acetylene as it is not as hot.
Hi, I was wondering if you can use propylene gas for this kind of brazing, as opposed to the acetylene torch that you appear to be handling. please correct me if I'm wrong about which fuel you're using.
I would use "Sil Fos". Contains some silver. I rarely use it, but it's quick and effective. Low melting temperature. I probably have about 12 sticks of Sil Fos that I bought 15 years ago if not longer. Sil Fos 15 means tht it is 15% silver.
The two pieces of 1/4" mild steel were "brazed" with copper rod with no flux. Then at 1:11 I show the same process but using a powder flux. At 1:40 I'm showing a paste flux. So. the video shows using no flux, a standard powder flux and a paste flux.
Hi George, I am learning how to braze and having a lot of luck with bronze rod on a copper sculpture. However, I want to use copper wire to braze on the copper sculptures to better hide the braze. It ise very hard to get the wire to begin to flow before the copper piece itself starts to melt. I am using the Bernzomatic Oxy/Mapp torch at this time. How can I avoid melting my artwork?
Denise, I can see where that would be a problem. First off, I have very little experience with a Bernzomatic torch and i have never used Mapp gas. If you have some scrap, try brazing on the copper with your brazing rod. Once that is cool, paint some kind of acid on the brazing. I've often done this with copper bubble wands I've brazed.. If I leave the wand in the acid bath too long, the acid will chemically change the bronze brazing to copper. If you have some white vinegar in the kitchen, you can try that. White vinegar is a weak acid so it will take some time. Here is a video I did on copper and acids. th-cam.com/video/usUCOvFECIE/w-d-xo.html Get back to me if this doesn't work. George
i want to braze 2 prices of copper together with some very thin copper wire to give the appearance of a single solid piece of copper how would I heat the wire without melting the 2 pieces which are very thin less than half a millimetre
Too many variables to answer your question (oxygen acetylene regulator settings, size of torch tip, thickness of copper and copper wire. If I wanted to do that I would take some scrap pieces of copper and do some trial runs. I do have a video on brazing thin materials: th-cam.com/video/h0vIvipWVuY/w-d-xo.html
Was thinking about your project. Once you get the two sheets of copper together with the copper wire - there will be flow over, so you will need to grind or sand down the joint.
Have watched a few of your videos and they are very informative. Have you used the fluxless copper solder to solder/braze copper to copper? I am having no luck with my efforts but I have had no direction in my attempts. Not sure of temp I need or copper prep. I have cleaned copper heated w/ butane and I get copper solder to flow but it beads on copper and does not flow into the joint. Using primarily on Copper wire joints for wire jewelry. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
Mack Fondren Mark, recently I bought a propane swirl head from amazon.com. For some reason the swirl torch puts out a hotter flame than just the regular propane torch. I know that you are using butane but you might check out this propane torch head. Bernzomatic JT539T Swirl Flame Brazing Torch About $25.00
yes and brass is adding zinc to copper but the melting points of bronze and brass are lower than pure copper ,i was under the assumption that maybe copper was stronger because of that,perhaps more heat resistant but not stronger then?
it's much cleaner when using acetylene rather than propane or map,,i find lots of hard to remove scale but perhaps it is because im using a poor man homemade flux from boric acid and water? have you ever tried mixing it with petroleum jelly instead,would this work? i was thinking about that because it may be what store bought fluxes use as well ,it looks similar so i put two and two together and thinking of mixing it with boric acid
hmm interesting,,but im talking about oxidized black crud that i always get,,i am able to remove some of it using wire cutters when im working with small diameter rods being brazed but lots of the crud remains embedded and i guess i have to use a grinder
so what about using petroleum jelly like Vaseline and mixing in some boric acid ? if you got the right flux it helps it come out cleaner without oxidation when working with steel
I've never had what you are calling black crud. After I braze copper wire the only thing showing is the copper wire and some flux. Sounds like you have an unusual problem . Hopefully a Google search will come up with a solution.
Hi George. Another great video. I will give this a try. The copper bond would be relatively low strength in comparison to GP bronze I expect - so is this mainly for decorative work ? I use an LPG torch for my brazing which you may find interesting. th-cam.com/video/PGwKuYP-RNo/w-d-xo.html
Hi George. I just tried it and I'm quite impressed. It's certainly strong enough that it won't break with flexible material like small diameter rod/ heavy wire. Be interesting to see how it will fare when brazing on a carbide cutting tip for my lathe. Very interesting and cost cutting hint. Thanks Rob
HI George, I have watched this video a few times and just wanted to thank you for the tip about using brazing flux paste , it has been a while to see newer videos, hope you're doing fine health wise, you've been a mentor to many of us novices/ coppersmith wannabies, respect.
I am also fond of the contrasting aesthetics of bronze brazing over steel. As long as all flux is removed, I prefer painting over a braze
welded joint since it is smoother than gas or electric welding. The flow characteristics of the filler assure there is little or no grinding needed.
I do remodeling work so i generally have a bunch of copper around. Thanks again George.
i use copper electrical wire for 4 years!!!its great!!!also i use low carbon steel wire 2mm or 3mm!!keep good videos!!!!!!!!
Hey, great vid on metal brazing. I have been researching the past couple of years about metal sculpture so that I can get my style of work out of my head and your vids are a big help.I know asap I will be ordering your DVD, I can't wait.
Your videos are very educational and enlightening, George.
Thanks, appreciate the compliment. Encouragement aways makes want to produce more videos.
Thanks for the comment. I agree about the aesthetics of brazing over steel.
I have learned a lot from your videos. One thing I'm having trouble figuring out, though, is brazing thicker pieces. Specifically I'm doing a decorative piece (steampunk style) with a steel gear (unknown alloy, machined easily enough) about 3/4" thick, and a large chunk of bronze (940, I think) about 3.5"x3". Workpieces are on a brick for insulation, with actual rock wool insulation loosely around the parts to hold the heat. I can't tell if my problem is that I simply can't pump in enough heat (using a semi compact torch with MAPP and oxygen, separate tanks), or if there's some other reason it won't flow. It seems like even if I were unable to get it hot enough to flow consistently because the parts are so large, I should at least be able to get this to flow in certain spots. I'm using the Lincoln brazing rods that are available at the home store (composition is not designated). I have burned through two oxygen tanks only to get one small area to stick to the steel, and I haven't been able to get any to stick to the bronze. Surely you can braze bronze with bronze filler?? It's a difficult subject to research because any search for "brazing" and "bronze" returns so many results about the different bronze filler options that I can't find anything about brazing a bronze workpiece.
Anyway, I know that's not a lot to go on, but if it sparks any ideas please let me know. Thank you!
Thick metal takes a lot of heat. With a small torch I doubt whether you can get it hot enough to braze 3/4" or the chunk of bronze. I have a large torch and it would take me some time to get those pieces hot enough to accept the braze. Have you considered alternative ways to attach the parts? Silver solder takes less heat. Another way may be to drill and tap. Depending on how much stress is involved, you may get by with J&B Weld. I've never used Mapp gas so I can't help there.
I should mention that I preheated first to 500 degrees for 30 minutes in an oven, then further with a large propane torch (flame pattern on that one is far too broad to be useful in actually brazing these parts). So at that point I would think that my fairly small torch, with the 5000+° flame of MAPP+oxygen would be able to get a small area hot enough to flow the filler rod.
I tried first to solder but had the same issue with the propane torch, then switched to the MAPP setup but it wasn't flowing much better, because the flux tends to burn by the time I've gotten enough heat into the part for the solder to flow. Frustrating process.
Yes, no mechanical strength is needed for this, so any epoxy could work, but I would like to be able to achieve a brazed look at the joint. I may have to settle for not having that small fillet and coloration.
Thanks again!
Without being there it is difficult to suggest anything further. I would try some thinner material. If that works then you will know it is insufficient heat.
Thanks so much George , I do remodeling and end up with lots of copper wire and had wondered if it would be usable as braze rod. You're video sure answered that. thanks again.
Interesting that one doesn't hear much about using copper wire for brazing. Don't know about strength, but my work doesn't require a lot of strength.
George Goehl I am totally new to welding, brazing etc. I do lots of plumbing in doing remodeling but always find welding and brazing very interesting. Never had oxyacetylene set. Just recently bought a uniweld set from a customer and am anxious to learn all the safety, and interesting things in working with it. That's why I asked about copper wire usage. Have even heard of practicing with clothes hanger wire. thanks for all your videos, they are so interesting and helpful.
Peter, glad you are finding the videos helpful. It is possible to gas weld with a coat hanger. I prefer using a standardized gas welding rod.
Strength: It is more than adequate for the work that I do. To determine the actual strength I'd suggest taking it to a metals lab for a stress test.
I have never used copper wire before I will try that thank's for the tip
Good information George. Thanks.
i tig with copper wire all the time, it works well for most situatios
I'll keep that in mind.
When would you want to braze rather than just weld it? It seems as though welding would be faster, with a stronger bond, though i guess you don't have to heat is as much when you braze. I guess you would say that brazing works when metals are dissimilar, but are there other situation where brazing is preferable?
I notice you never mention brass brazing rod. Is there such a thing?
Great video it helped me out alot with a commissioned project I'm working on.
Many thanks
Glad that worked. Comes in handy for specific projects. Thanks for commenting. George
Is brazing a good route into a career in welding?
Appearance not desirable? Still, some truly expert techniques + a beautiful and solid final product. Listen to your elders! These Old Heads have -extremely- valuable knowledge and they are usually willing to share :o)
Another reason why there is not many difference.
High level skills ;)
@spelunkerd Why braze?
I do metal sculpture so the bronze color makes a good contrast with other metals.
I'm not looking for exceptional strength.
Plus, I like to braze
Best plan is to know how to braze, silver solder, gas weld and electric weld. Then choose what's best for a specific application.
Amazing !
copper wire only wow !!
i been thinking about finding me a hobby to do. and new to all this.
thanks again . your newest subscriber to your channel.
many blessing.
.
+OC_VILLAIN Keep me posted on your new adventure.
Thanks, I always like compliments.
You mention not being able to see. I hear that "tinmantech" has developed a special welding mask lens specific to this operation, that blocks the right wavelengths so as to prevent your corneas being burned out. Sounds cool. I'm curious about the strength of such a joint. I know you're an artist, I wonder whether copper wire would make a suitable brazing material for something structural, such as a bicycle or motorcycle frame. I heard certain brazing is stronger than mig/tig, such as aluminum...
@aaronfu2 The part on the left was done with flux.
I've never used the copper wire as a filler wire between two pieces of stainless.
for some reason i am having problems brazing 1/16 steel plates together using braided copper wire and oxy /mappro ,perhaps i should try it without the homemade flux and see if that works better but the problem is i keep getting scale buildup and having trouble getting capilary action in between the butt joint
As mentioned before, I know nothing about Mapp gas. Also, I've never used braided wire. I generally use a straight piece of 8 gauge copper wire. For capillary action there needs to be some space between pieces to be brazed. Something like a 1/64th of an inch or even less.
@SoyBoySigh Thanks for the comment. I'll check the mask lens out.
I don't know what the strength factor would be using copper as the filler rod. Today there are so many metallurgical specific rods I'm sure there are filler rods far better than copper wire.
This would be especially true for bicycle and motorcycle frames where a minimum of rod is needed.
Hey George at 2:27 do you recall wich was with flux and without?
On the Left and on the Right?
Also, is this same process possible on Stainless?
Thanks!
@lingd8
I'm using acetylene. I've never used propane. You will just have to give it a try and see if it will do what you want it to do.
It will be slower than acetylene as it is not as hot.
Hi, I was wondering if you can use propylene gas for this kind of brazing, as opposed to the acetylene torch that you appear to be handling. please correct me if I'm wrong about which fuel you're using.
What would you use to braze 2 copper tubes together
I would use "Sil Fos". Contains some silver. I rarely use it, but it's quick and effective. Low melting temperature. I probably have about 12 sticks of Sil Fos that I bought 15 years ago if not longer. Sil Fos 15 means tht it is 15% silver.
No flux were given in making this video :)
The two pieces of 1/4" mild steel were "brazed" with copper rod with no flux. Then at 1:11 I show the same process but using a powder flux. At 1:40 I'm showing a paste flux. So. the video shows using no flux, a standard powder flux and a paste flux.
I was making a joke George but thanks for the reply :P
Sometimes I'm not as clear as I would like to be, so just wanted to clarify. Saw your smiley face, but wasn't sure what it was referring to.
As always thanks for the info.
what about the strength ,is it strong like silver rods ?
Hi George, I am learning how to braze and having a lot of luck with bronze rod on a copper sculpture. However, I want to use copper wire to braze on the copper sculptures to better hide the braze. It ise very hard to get the wire to begin to flow before the copper piece itself starts to melt. I am using the Bernzomatic Oxy/Mapp torch at this time. How can I avoid melting my artwork?
Denise, I can see where that would be a problem. First off, I have very little experience with a Bernzomatic torch and i have never used Mapp gas. If you have some scrap, try brazing on the copper with your brazing rod. Once that is cool, paint some kind of acid on the brazing. I've often done this with copper bubble wands I've brazed.. If I leave the wand in the acid bath too long, the acid will chemically change the bronze brazing to copper. If you have some white vinegar in the kitchen, you can try that. White vinegar is a weak acid so it will take some time. Here is a video I did on copper and acids. th-cam.com/video/usUCOvFECIE/w-d-xo.html
Get back to me if this doesn't work. George
George Goehl
Thanks George I will give it a shot and let you know. Thanks! :)
Excellent vidio and advice, thanks .
i want to braze 2 prices of copper together with some very thin copper wire to give the appearance of a single solid piece of copper how would I heat the wire without melting the 2 pieces which are very thin less than half a millimetre
Too many variables to answer your question (oxygen acetylene regulator settings, size of torch tip, thickness of copper and copper wire. If I wanted to do that I would take some scrap pieces of copper and do some trial runs. I do have a video on brazing thin materials: th-cam.com/video/h0vIvipWVuY/w-d-xo.html
+George Goehl OK thanks for the help much appreciated
Was thinking about your project. Once you get the two sheets of copper together with the copper wire - there will be flow over, so you will need to grind or sand down the joint.
Have watched a few of your videos and they are very informative. Have you used the fluxless copper solder to solder/braze copper to copper? I am having no luck with my efforts but I have had no direction in my attempts. Not sure of temp I need or copper prep. I have cleaned copper heated w/ butane and I get copper solder to flow but it beads on copper and does not flow into the joint. Using primarily on Copper wire joints for wire jewelry. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
I have not used butane. Generally when it beads up it means that the base metal is not hot enough.
Thanks I will try to get a hotter burning flame and give it another go.
Mack Fondren Mark, recently I bought a propane swirl head from amazon.com. For some reason the swirl torch puts out a hotter flame than just the regular propane torch. I know that you are using butane but you might check out this propane torch head.
Bernzomatic JT539T Swirl Flame Brazing Torch About $25.00
i would think copper makes the strongest of the braze in comparison to silver,bronze and brass
Copper is not as strong as bronze as in bronze brazing. The copper age came before the bronze age. Adding tin to copper = bronze.
yes and brass is adding zinc to copper but the melting points of bronze and brass are lower than pure copper ,i was under the assumption that maybe copper was stronger because of that,perhaps more heat resistant but not stronger then?
what is stronger ,pure copper or pure silver?
You should be doing movie trailers with that voice
he sounds like jesse
great video!!!
goddam that brazing is good...
it's much cleaner when using acetylene rather than propane or map,,i find lots of hard to remove scale but perhaps it is because im using a poor man homemade flux from boric acid and water? have you ever tried mixing it with petroleum jelly instead,would this work? i was thinking about that because it may be what store bought fluxes use as well ,it looks similar so i put two and two together and thinking of mixing it with boric acid
Good way to remove excess flux is to dip the brazed metal in boiling water.
hmm interesting,,but im talking about oxidized black crud that i always get,,i am able to remove some of it using wire cutters when im working with small diameter rods being brazed but lots of the crud remains embedded and i guess i have to use a grinder
so what about using petroleum jelly like Vaseline and mixing in some boric acid ? if you got the right flux it helps it come out cleaner without oxidation when working with steel
I've never had what you are calling black crud. After I braze copper wire the only thing showing is the copper wire and some flux. Sounds like you have an unusual problem . Hopefully a Google search will come up with a solution.
My only experience with flux is what I get at the welding supply.
Can I use a butane torch for this
+Luke rule I've never used butane. You might do a Google search and see if there is anything available on using butane.
great video :-) Thx for sharing, peace, iT
Hi George. Another great video. I will give this a try. The copper bond would be relatively low strength in comparison to GP bronze I expect - so is this mainly for decorative work ? I use an LPG torch for my brazing which you may find interesting. th-cam.com/video/PGwKuYP-RNo/w-d-xo.html
I've found brazing with copper wire to be quite strong.
Hi George. I just tried it and I'm quite impressed. It's certainly strong enough that it won't break with flexible material like small diameter rod/ heavy wire. Be interesting to see how it will fare when brazing on a carbide cutting tip for my lathe. Very interesting and cost cutting hint. Thanks Rob
i use copper electrical wire for 4 years!!!its great!!!also i use low carbon steel wire 2mm or 3mm!!keep good videos!!!!!!!!
+George Siatos George, thanks for viewing and all these positive comments. Like to see some of your work. George
great work!!!!!!great artist!!!!i live in greece
+George Siatos George, thanks again. Here is a link to a complete list of all my TH-cam videos. gsegmedia.com/?page_id=2877