To be honest I have almost every knife I want right now, I'm watching your videos because you all are AWESOME and so I can send my Calgary and GTA friends to you 💗
My first ever Japanese knife was Masakage Shimo Gyuto 240mm that I purchased from you March 2024. I'm loving this knife so far and I've created a nice little patina on it.
Thanks Nathan and the team for probably one of the most information dense videos you put out so far. Learned a lot of new things. This does leave me with a lot of questions about the more subtle aspects of the knife steel type and why one was chosen over the other. Like for example the differences between shirogami 1 or 2 versus aogami 1 or 2 when it comes to sharpness, ease of sharpening, durability and edge retention. There's probably way too much to go over in depth about that it most likely need a whole new video or two but it probably would only appeal to nerds such as myself 😅
Japanese knives are really interesting because it feels like they focus on the grind and form rather than composition. Too many American and Canadian knives use powdered steels with terrible grinds, poor heat treat and poor balance. On the other hand, there aren't a ton of Japanese makers use focusing on HAP-40 or ZDP-189, much less importing fantastic steels like Magnacut, 4V, Vanax, K390 and Cruwear.
Hey, that's an interesting thought! There's definitely some truth to it, but also a few reasons who they're using other steels. First, many makers use what forges well. HAP40 and ZDP are extremely hard to forge, so we see a much more limited number of makers using them, and primarily companies that don't hand-forge. While many don't feel the need to use higher-tech steels, we are seeing more folks branch out, especially middle-aged and younger makers who are more willing to try different materials. As far as non-Japanese steels go, it's simply too expensive to use those steels. Many makers get their steel from down the street, or at worst from across a very small country with a robust transportation system. For most of them, I'd imagine it's not worth the expense to use steels made in the USA or elsewhere after the shipping, duties, and other increased expenses. I hope that clears things up!
@KnifewearKnives I definitely agree. I also think that PM steels are not really often forged, but rather laser cut. I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that forging may even do something undesirable to carbide distribution (specifically in PM steels). But, that's really the point I was making: that in NA we're focused on steel choice and chose thicker grinds until somewhat more recently, but Japan is focused on craft. That would be my explanation for why so many of their knives are so good. Also, according to Dr. Larrin Thomas's testing, grind and geometry matters more for toughness and edge holding than steel. My opinion is that edge stability (overly simplified as resistance to rolling and chipping) is huge for chef knives and that's why carbon steel is so good: the grain structure is really fine even for things like Aogami Super so they don't need the powdered metallurgy process. People assume that these steels are starkly different, but really the main difference is between classes of steels rather than variability within class (e.g., high speed tool, carbon, stainless, pm, etc.).
I'd say hardness matters inside each cathegory but not as much when comparing between stainless and carbon steel. Though it can matter when you cut hard things like bone or fish scales where the abrasion resistance doesn't matter as much as the steels actual hardness.
Slowly building up my collection: Anru AS Tushime, 18 cm Gyuto Matsubara AS, stainless clad, Nashiji finish. 21 cm Were my first two knives. On the way, hopefully in a few days.. Moritaka Honesuki AS iron clad (Would have loved the Ishime version you have got in store, but sending it to Denmark and customs would have doubled the price) Blenheim Bread knife, mono steel... Just looks bad ass 😊
Replaced lost Zwilling-Henckel with local store bling Miyabi R2 Birchwood Gyuto. I really like it. Want to explore 100% hand-made carbon. I'd buy Shibata Aogami Super but their AS is very hard to find. Any other maker recommendations for the following? AS Kiritsuke or K-tip Gyuto, tapered spine, good blade height, on the laserish side, food-release grind.
I will just say that as someone who's new to this, good call on wanting AS. I have two Japanese knives, one as, one shirogami 2. No question at all bt the two that the as stays sharp longer. I use it a lot more yet it needs less maintenance. Probably won't buy any other steel than as going forward.
After switching to carbon steel i would never want to go back to a typical german stainless. I have a Damascus that's stainless with a rockwell of 62 that was my first nice knife even so i still enjoy using my carbon steel knives considerably more.
It does not matter a damn, buy what you like. The harder stainless blades can be a bugger to sharpen. I prefer plain carbon steel for carving, slicing. Stainless is tremendously variable between manufacturers.
At least for my experience, those pure carbon steels were really bad with the edge retention. I do cut a lot of meat, and they are way more aggressive to your knives to the point a single cut to a raw brisket was good enough to roll over the white steel knife's edge I'm sticking with vg10 for now, maybe I'll find some way to upgrade into sg2. Carbon steel knives do sharpen faster, get wicked sharp without any fancy stones, but I'd rather have a knife that last an hour worth of cuts then hones back to sharp than having to hone, strop, or sharpen every single cut I make. I only wish Japanese blacksmiths to experiment with their steels they got. They already have PM steels like sg2, so the technology is there. A lot of steels used in American or European knife market were not made for knives either. One of the more popular steels like m390 were made for plastic die casting mold, so if the blacksmiths are willing to look into things they already have, I'm pretty sure they can find something really interesting that no one thought of using it for knives.
Most Japanese carbon steels used in knife making are low alloy tool steels. And Blue Super is the best of them. If you look at Dr. Larrin's comparison graphs, you'll quickly learn that these steels are very brittle and have the worst edge retention. Pretty much any stainless steel (apart from clay chinesium) is both tougher and holds the edge better. Even ZDP-189, well known for its brittleness, is tougher than Super Blue.
I'm looking to get my wife some knives as a Christmas gift when i stumbled on this channel. I was looking at your site and saw "Takeshi Saji VG10 Shinchu Damascus Wa Gyuto 210mm" which i liked. I know nothing about knives i just liked the way it looked. Can you point me in a good direction to get a chef, petty, and bread knife. Preferably ones that if not match look somewhat similar? *edit Shes not a professional chef, she just cooks me dinner and meal preps for me. Thank you!
Hey, that's awesome! Saji knives are incredible handmade blades. If you're looking for something a bit simpler but high quality, these two lines would be great. If you're after something different, message us on the site and we can help! knifewear.com/collections/shizu-shikisai-miyako knifewear.com/collections/seki-kanetsugu-vg2-heptagon
I have one of each. carbon steel definitely can get sharper if its harder but it chips away, but something interesting I can taste is when I prepare fresh veggies and I dont like it, for example, when i need fresh cabbage or fruit I use my chinese veggie cleaver but if something goes to the wok or getting cook like meat or tomatoes the carbon steel cleaver gets in. I recommend clad stainless with good core like white #2 or zdp189 if you just can buy one knife but ideally you would get one of each, in my case I do a SG2/R2 and carbon steel cleaver mainly, but I usually see a carbon steel gyuto like misono dragon and vg10 nakiri or 440c petty
Sounds to me like you need to build your patina up way more. Not like I haven't experienced that before but It's usually when I haven't forced a patina or if I don't wipe in between cuts. Or oiling it after your done.
I hate the term high carbon steel versus carbon steel because of technicality. I want something that can rust not something that has a higher carbon count or amount and can still be stainless and not even be stainless clad with a carbon steel core.
Excellent video. Thanks. Was wondering, after consultation with a professional such as yourself, and the purchaser isn't satisified with the selected knife can he/she exchange it for another that meets their ZEN? From one of the die hard hippies of the 60's, man.
Nathan is giving off really cozy winter vibes with his knit sweater and enough hair to knit another sweater and I love it.
Thanks buddy, this is me for the next 5 months!
@@KnifewearKnivesexcited for your spring glow up reveal 🌺 ☀️ 👙
To be honest I have almost every knife I want right now, I'm watching your videos because you all are AWESOME and so I can send my Calgary and GTA friends to you 💗
Thanks so much buddy!
My first ever Japanese knife was Masakage Shimo Gyuto 240mm that I purchased from you March 2024. I'm loving this knife so far and I've created a nice little patina on it.
That's awesome, that's such a cool knife!
Thanks Nathan and the team for probably one of the most information dense videos you put out so far. Learned a lot of new things.
This does leave me with a lot of questions about the more subtle aspects of the knife steel type and why one was chosen over the other. Like for example the differences between shirogami 1 or 2 versus aogami 1 or 2 when it comes to sharpness, ease of sharpening, durability and edge retention.
There's probably way too much to go over in depth about that it most likely need a whole new video or two but it probably would only appeal to nerds such as myself 😅
Japanese knives are really interesting because it feels like they focus on the grind and form rather than composition. Too many American and Canadian knives use powdered steels with terrible grinds, poor heat treat and poor balance. On the other hand, there aren't a ton of Japanese makers use focusing on HAP-40 or ZDP-189, much less importing fantastic steels like Magnacut, 4V, Vanax, K390 and Cruwear.
Hey, that's an interesting thought! There's definitely some truth to it, but also a few reasons who they're using other steels.
First, many makers use what forges well. HAP40 and ZDP are extremely hard to forge, so we see a much more limited number of makers using them, and primarily companies that don't hand-forge. While many don't feel the need to use higher-tech steels, we are seeing more folks branch out, especially middle-aged and younger makers who are more willing to try different materials.
As far as non-Japanese steels go, it's simply too expensive to use those steels. Many makers get their steel from down the street, or at worst from across a very small country with a robust transportation system. For most of them, I'd imagine it's not worth the expense to use steels made in the USA or elsewhere after the shipping, duties, and other increased expenses.
I hope that clears things up!
@KnifewearKnives I definitely agree. I also think that PM steels are not really often forged, but rather laser cut. I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that forging may even do something undesirable to carbide distribution (specifically in PM steels).
But, that's really the point I was making: that in NA we're focused on steel choice and chose thicker grinds until somewhat more recently, but Japan is focused on craft. That would be my explanation for why so many of their knives are so good. Also, according to Dr. Larrin Thomas's testing, grind and geometry matters more for toughness and edge holding than steel.
My opinion is that edge stability (overly simplified as resistance to rolling and chipping) is huge for chef knives and that's why carbon steel is so good: the grain structure is really fine even for things like Aogami Super so they don't need the powdered metallurgy process.
People assume that these steels are starkly different, but really the main difference is between classes of steels rather than variability within class (e.g., high speed tool, carbon, stainless, pm, etc.).
All my Japanese knives are VG10 or SG2 core.
My next one might be an AS if I can find a good deal.
Aogami Super is great stuff, and a really nice way to try out carbon steel without getting something crazy reactive!
I'd say hardness matters inside each cathegory but not as much when comparing between stainless and carbon steel. Though it can matter when you cut hard things like bone or fish scales where the abrasion resistance doesn't matter as much as the steels actual hardness.
Slowly building up my collection:
Anru AS Tushime, 18 cm Gyuto
Matsubara AS, stainless clad, Nashiji finish. 21 cm
Were my first two knives.
On the way, hopefully in a few days..
Moritaka Honesuki AS iron clad
(Would have loved the Ishime version you have got in store, but sending it to Denmark and customs would have doubled the price)
Blenheim Bread knife, mono steel... Just looks bad ass
😊
That's a fantastic collection!
@KnifewearKnives .. Thx ☺️
What do you think of the new model “Kai seki magoroku kaname” 3 layer sandwich knife ? Is this the best option ?
Replaced lost Zwilling-Henckel with local store bling Miyabi R2 Birchwood Gyuto. I really like it. Want to explore 100% hand-made carbon. I'd buy Shibata Aogami Super but their AS is very hard to find.
Any other maker recommendations for the following? AS Kiritsuke or K-tip Gyuto, tapered spine, good blade height, on the laserish side, food-release grind.
Moritaka makes a Kiritsuke that sounds pretty much exactly like what you’re looking for, but also look at the Yu Kurosaki Kokusen
That sounds a lot like the Nigara AS series!
knifewear.com/products/nigara-as-s-tsushime-kiritsuke-gyuto-210mm?_pos=3&_fid=14fd4b1ec&_ss=c
I will just say that as someone who's new to this, good call on wanting AS. I have two Japanese knives, one as, one shirogami 2. No question at all bt the two that the as stays sharp longer. I use it a lot more yet it needs less maintenance. Probably won't buy any other steel than as going forward.
After switching to carbon steel i would never want to go back to a typical german stainless. I have a Damascus that's stainless with a rockwell of 62 that was my first nice knife even so i still enjoy using my carbon steel knives considerably more.
It does not matter a damn, buy what you like. The harder stainless blades can be a bugger to sharpen. I prefer plain carbon steel for carving, slicing. Stainless is tremendously variable between manufacturers.
The harder it is to sharpen, the better the edge retention.
That haruyuki shiso gyuto is so sick. I have the nakiri from that line and its a friggin beast
I love it!
Nice info. How can i buy that knife on the bottom of the rack?
Thank you!
Right here, it's 20% off!
knifewear.com/products/haruyuki-shiso-gyuto-240mm
I am going to mirror a phrase by Chase Jarvis - the best knife is the one that’s with you. 😆
Absolutely!
At least for my experience, those pure carbon steels were really bad with the edge retention.
I do cut a lot of meat, and they are way more aggressive to your knives to the point a single cut to a raw brisket was good enough to roll over the white steel knife's edge
I'm sticking with vg10 for now, maybe I'll find some way to upgrade into sg2.
Carbon steel knives do sharpen faster, get wicked sharp without any fancy stones, but I'd rather have a knife that last an hour worth of cuts then hones back to sharp than having to hone, strop, or sharpen every single cut I make.
I only wish Japanese blacksmiths to experiment with their steels they got.
They already have PM steels like sg2, so the technology is there.
A lot of steels used in American or European knife market were not made for knives either.
One of the more popular steels like m390 were made for plastic die casting mold, so if the blacksmiths are willing to look into things they already have, I'm pretty sure they can find something really interesting that no one thought of using it for knives.
Most Japanese carbon steels used in knife making are low alloy tool steels. And Blue Super is the best of them. If you look at Dr. Larrin's comparison graphs, you'll quickly learn that these steels are very brittle and have the worst edge retention. Pretty much any stainless steel (apart from clay chinesium) is both tougher and holds the edge better. Even ZDP-189, well known for its brittleness, is tougher than Super Blue.
I'm looking to get my wife some knives as a Christmas gift when i stumbled on this channel. I was looking at your site and saw "Takeshi Saji VG10 Shinchu Damascus Wa Gyuto 210mm" which i liked. I know nothing about knives i just liked the way it looked. Can you point me in a good direction to get a chef, petty, and bread knife. Preferably ones that if not match look somewhat similar?
*edit
Shes not a professional chef, she just cooks me dinner and meal preps for me.
Thank you!
Hey, that's awesome! Saji knives are incredible handmade blades.
If you're looking for something a bit simpler but high quality, these two lines would be great. If you're after something different, message us on the site and we can help!
knifewear.com/collections/shizu-shikisai-miyako
knifewear.com/collections/seki-kanetsugu-vg2-heptagon
expensive knives are useless if you don't want to spend your money and time on sharpening.
Stainless steel does oxidize but it forms a thin passive layer of chromium oxide which protects the iron from oxidizing and forming rust.
Right, thank you for clarifying!
Are there any sg2 mono steel gyotos?
Possibly, but not that I've seen. Most monosteel knives are super soft, and sg2 is definitely not soft!
@ it gets time consuming / expensive to grind out steels this hard.
I have one of each. carbon steel definitely can get sharper if its harder but it chips away, but something interesting I can taste is when I prepare fresh veggies and I dont like it, for example, when i need fresh cabbage or fruit I use my chinese veggie cleaver but if something goes to the wok or getting cook like meat or tomatoes the carbon steel cleaver gets in. I recommend clad stainless with good core like white #2 or zdp189 if you just can buy one knife but ideally you would get one of each, in my case I do a SG2/R2 and carbon steel cleaver mainly, but I usually see a carbon steel gyuto like misono dragon and vg10 nakiri or 440c petty
Some folks definitely notice the carbon flavour, that's a great point! I have both types, and I definitely recommend that route.
Sounds to me like you need to build your patina up way more. Not like I haven't experienced that before but It's usually when I haven't forced a patina or if I don't wipe in between cuts. Or oiling it after your done.
Just waiting on the kaijin restocks
Soon I hope!
I’m a big fan of the Kaijin series.
What is that three piece knifeholder sitting on the table?
It's this one!
knifewear.com/products/sticks-and-boards-knife-stand?_pos=36&_sid=0e03fe456&_ss=r
I hate the term high carbon steel versus carbon steel because of technicality. I want something that can rust not something that has a higher carbon count or amount and can still be stainless and not even be stainless clad with a carbon steel core.
I want that mazaki gyuto so bad
It's a gorgeous knife!
Maybe im seeking my #68 chef knife
Hard steel is likely to chip
No, not really.
If you cut bones or very hard things, totally. If you don't, you'll be good to go!
Excellent video. Thanks. Was wondering, after consultation with a professional such as yourself, and the purchaser isn't satisified with the selected knife can he/she exchange it for another that meets their ZEN? From one of the die hard hippies of the 60's, man.
Thank you! If you're unhappy with a knife you got from us, shoot us an email at hello @knifewear.com and I'm sure we can help.