EBTKS add-on board for the HP-85 vintage computer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ส.ค. 2021
- There is a new plug-in board for the HP-85, which not only will emulate the difficult to restore but essential tape drive, but also 5 disk drives, adds all the ROMs, and extends the memory while it's at it. It's called the EBTKS board, designed by Philip Freidin, Russell Bull and Everett Kaser. And, by the way, Everett was one of the original HP-85 software engineers! Philip gives us a live demo.
Main link for EBTKS website: www.fliptronics.com/EBTKS/inde...
Link for pre-orders: www.fliptronics.com/EBTKS/How_...
Firmware on GitHub: github.com/Fliptron/T41_EBTKS...
Original announcement on iogroups: groups.io/g/hpseries80/topic/...
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Did I miss it? Where is information on how you can acquire one of these cards?
Main link for website: www.fliptronics.com/EBTKS/index.html
Link for pre-orders: www.fliptronics.com/EBTKS/How_to_Order_EBTKS.html
Firmware on GitHub: github.com/Fliptron/T41_EBTKS_FW_1.0
Original announcement: groups.io/g/hpseries80/topic/ebtks_announcement/82761979
You guys are too fast! Did not quite finish to edit the description yet... Just added it in :-)
@@CuriousMarc Awesome! :D
FYI, Philip had only 2 working boards left as of yesterday (which I bought), and no plans to produce more. Thanks to my order (hee hee, more likely the surge in orders due to this video) he just initiated the production of 50 more!! He expects them to be available in about 2wks. Yea!! Get 'em while you can.
Got my 2 boards on Thursday. Using one in my HP86B right now. Yea!
I was an HP field service engineer in the 80s/90/s and these little guys were little workhorses. I also used to repair them and yes I have replaced hundreds of mechs in my time. I see a lot of equipment in the background that I also used to repair and calibrate. The original HP company was without a doubt the best company in the world to work for, making the best Test and Measurement instrumentation in the word. Happy days.
I worked in pharmaceutical mfg in that late 80's and we used the 85. I worked in tableting and we would weigh tabs, check thickness, do a tumble test and reweigh, then crush for hardness. Once an hour, we would perform these tests, input results with keyboard, then print out results and attach to our documents. At the end of our batch we would print out results in a graph. Final data then was stored on tape. This brought back memories for me, nice device!!
All that time and effort bringing those Real-Time-Clock boards back to life, and the EBTKS has the kitchen sink *and* an RTC!
It's kind of like the AST Super Six-Pack, except for the HP-8x instead of PC/XT.
That's exactly what I thought during the RTC demo.
That tiny screen makes the whole computer look so cute.
It reminds me of an Osborne One screen, only less green lol
Pip-boy vibes
You'll love the Osbourne
This is really cool, and obviously this kind of hardware emulation is extremely helpful for anyone keeping this old hardware running. But I've always admired Marc's talent and passion for bringing his old computers into 100% working order, including the unspeakably inferior storage mechanisms. Imagine the Alto without its giant frisbees!
Nah. It's mechanical, therefore it's got to be *superior*. As JFK once said, "we don't do things electronically because they are easy, we do things mechanically because they are hard!".
@@CuriousMarc Haha well said!
"unspeakably inferior storage" _Well Played_
This day and age is awesome isn't it, all kinds of people are making new boards for all kinds of old devices, it's lovely!
I use to run a calibration lab. We used one of these to run custom calculations that I created. Fast forward 25 years while I was rummaging thru a electronics surplus store (same big city the cal lab was in) I started to see specialized equipment that I recognized, further digging around I found a digital program tape with my handwriting on it, it was one of my tapes.
Was pretty cool!
I *mastered* one of these things in undergrad. Had it running a DMM and function generator to perform gain measurements on an audio compressor and printing out a carpet plot of the results.
It warms my heart hearing someone use the term "Winchester drive" in 2021. Lots of childhood memories bubbling up. Thanks for the vid! :-)
Philip Freidin has make a great job bringing back to life old HP-85's . EBTKS is astonishing far beyond your expectatives. It's a "must" have in case you own a series-80 computer. Thanks you Philip, I mean it!!!
Thank you for your very kind words. An equal effort to the project is Russell Bull and Everett Kaser.
I just received mine. I came back to review the video. I had forgotten how much extra functionality the EBTKS provides. I should have some fun this weekend testing it out.
That is incredible. I’d like to get at least one or two of those. The price seems very reasonable. I’ve got several 86s and 87s, but I don’t use them much since storage is impossible. This opens up a lot of possibilities, especially since it has all the ROMs. I’ve been trying to get an 87 IO ROM, but I don’t want to purchase if I can’t return and the seller can’t demonstrate that it works. This should solve that issue.
Amazing! My dad used to bring an 85 home from work when we were kids. I did some basic BASIC programming on it and played some games from the Game Pac tapes. We also at one point had the external floppy drives. This bit of hardware is an awesome addition to any HP series 80 PC. So impressive to see.
That CRT is immaculate! From the video it looks like there is zero burn in.
It looks a lot like the ones used in those karaoke machines you can find at thrift stores. I had an old police terminal with a CRT needed to be replaced, and one of the karaoke machine tubes was a drop in replacement
For me it would be a fun project to replace that crt with an LCD, just for kicks, power savings, and safety (no more HVAC).
Funny that Marc did not seem as impressed as you. I seem to recall him saying it is "ok" or "pretty decent". I agree with you - it looks great. Marc has high standards...
Lots of respect for the developers with what it does, the name and the fact that Philip has an Australian AvE tap chart on his shirt.
I presume it's because it's not upside down to _him._ The other option would be to print it reversed left-to-right so he could read it in a mirror.
@AvE for the win
@@mal2ksc Could be, I didn't think of that. I just thought it was an Aussie joke while he was in the US.
@@MattTester @Mal-2 KSC is correct. It reads correctly when I look down.
i am again amazed by the knowledge and skills of people involved in older computing systems
Nice to see 👍🏻
My HP85 is so much better now I have my EBTKS installed !
Great Job Phil 😉
+1
Curious Marc, the master of all things HP introduces us to a new level with this video with Philip. Marc will figure out how the machine is supposed to work, Philip decides how to force the machine to do his will. Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.
My first job was programming in basic in a hp-85 in 1988. Good times!. Nice video!, congrats!
There are a couple of lab instruments which have an 85A built-in, and those are the 8450 and 8451A diode array spectrophotometers.
Thanks! I did not know! Now here is another instrument I need to acquire!
Was it the 9915A/B used as an embedded 80 series?
To my mind, it's a desktop graphing calculator with an HP1B interface, tape drive, and printer. I have some fond memories of using it to measure the noise floor in an old UCC-4 Multiplexer. Good times!
Can this be used for TV and radio spectrum analysis with a software-defined radio?
@@scratchpad7954 If the SDR has an HP1B interface, it'd be easy. Otherwise, you'd have to come up with an I2C interface for it. The SDR would do the scanning of the frequency range from a set of parameters provided by the HP with the HP collecting the numbers coming back from the SDR for The HP's graphing function.
The FSVM (Frequency Selective Voltmeter) that I used would take commands from the HP and send back its readings of the measured frequency or range of frequencies. So the heavy lifting was performed by the FSVM and the HP would tabulate the results, store them on tape, or print to screen and/or thermal printer.
Think of the HP as the conductor of an orchestra, The conductor signals the various parts of the orchestra to play in various ways and the musicians provide the expertise in the playing of their instruments.
I hope that makes sense.
@@15743_Hertz Very good explanation.
Every Curious Marc video brings joy to my life, and also makes me want to acquire beautiful old test equipment 😁
I don't own such a machine, but it was really neat to see it in action! The ratios between the size of the computer, the screen and keyboard made it really aesthetically pleasing! And, it appeared that it's actually incredibly capable.
With the add-on board (with an awesome name, I must say) it must be a blast for everyone who owns such a machine. Immensely great work by the developers!
Wow, Talk about a trip down memory lane! I worked for HP in their Field Repair Center when these were new. Our team repaired these and the peripherals they connected to. Later we repaired the HP DOS based computers and then the HP Vectra MS-DOS based PC . As an on-site repair engineer I repaired the HP mini mainframe computers, hard drives, tape drives, the 264X terminals like you have and the line printers. As a result of repairing so many computer working on computers is one of my least favorite things to do now.
Perfect Ocker humour with EBTKS. I was waiting for him to say "she'll be right mate"
I was working for HP when they first came by out with those. It was pretty cool watching the engineers use them in the labs as part of new component design.
Wow, this is clearly a labor of love. Amazing stuff.
With this level of modern expandability, the sky's the limit right?
Love seeing old machines like this. Looks like a lot of fun to use.
You are on a roll with posting videos today!
Hey, nice work Philip and team!
Thank you! I used one more tan 40 years ago! Actually I had access to two of them. Thanks for bring me sweet memories.
Great to see a fellow Aussie on the channel! This was a great video!
Sweet AvE tap chart.
I got about a thousand bucks that says Marc went back in after that dude left and isolated/insulated those ribbon cables that they unhooked from the disc drive.
I'll take that bet. What was disconnected was the faulty tape drive. Watch the end of the video, Marc gifted the HP85 to "the dude". Signed: "the dude"
@@fliptrontube Hi dude ;)
Great to see a fellow Aussie on your channel 👍 G'day Phillip...
What a fantastic looking computer. That screen is so sharp.
the HP-85 is so beautiful. I love the tiny screen.
Nice tape emulation device!
Author deserves golden medal! 🥇👍
I need to get one of these for my 85. Enjoyable video as always. Thanks!
great board philip has made there, if you own or are getting one of these machines you need one ;)
I'm just impressed! Well done!
So much love for this old and Wanderflüge Hardware!
Outstanding! Just ordered one.
How beautiful the screen is!
Beautiful work.
Very cool. Awesome, even. I designed a piece of test equipment while at GE Aerospace in 1983 that interfaced to an HP-85. I didn't get to know it beyond making the HPIB interface work. My colleague did all the programming of the HP. He was one of several brilliant people I had the pleasure of working with there. This device makes life incredibly easier for users of this vintage equipment.
thats so cool what a way to keep use of these cool old computers
I saw the name Everett Kaser and I didn't realize it was the same person who made the Sherlock logic game! I love that game
This is so cool. Making new hardware to expand the functionality of older devices!
I am so impressed by this emulator +++ !!! I have old Commodore C64 and Amiga 500/2000 computers that I use floppy emulators and its just makes things so much easier ! Bravo. I used the HP85 computers 38 years ago at my job testing components and boxes for the B1B defensive avionics system. We then graduated to the HP 9000 's. Miss all those computers. Thanks for a awesome video.
I remember when the HP85 came to market. I wanted one but was an undergrad student at the time and was way beyond what I could afford.
I learned on and enjoyed using the HP85 back in the day. It was limited but still fun.
@16:59 - This brings back memories of typing in B.A.S.I.C programs in to my Commodore 64 that would come in the Computes Gazette and the like back in the mid 80's. Machine language programs were a whole other kettle of fish.
That HP-85 looks like a prime candidate for solar-only retrobriting. Just leave it in the sun for a few days and watch the keyboard and case both un-yellow. It won't be perfect but it should be better, with no significant risk of streaking or splotches.
Especially for large pieces, I use ozone dissolved in water. I use my ozone generator pumping ozone into water, getting ozone dissolve in water and leave the plastic in it for a couple of days. Ozone generator constantly pumps ozone into water during the whole operation. The result is always awesome without any streaking, splotches or nonuniform restoration.
@@Mr_ToR They'd still have to take it apart to put it in a tank, including pulling all the keys off the keyboard -- although if it has keyboard problems, it's probably going to get torn down that far anyhow. My proposal was to be as lazy and cheap as possible while still getting a result. :)
@@mal2ksc Don't you have to adjust from where the sun will shine or wont shine etc? I mean normally a side at least should not get as much light no? Do you have any images/video examples etc about sun only retrobriting?
@@Mr_ToR th-cam.com/video/8P1OVj0IcqY/w-d-xo.html
Allways a joy to look at vintage computer and listen to tic-ka-ti tic-ka-ti , this must be the utility belt for a HP-85!
Excellent video!!
For some reason I now want to build a similar machine with the same form factor but built around a Raspberry Pi 4, a full sized mechanical keyboard, 10 inch screen, and maybe a break out box to keep the GPIO and other connectors accessible and other handy features.. maybe a thermal printer? All in a nice wooden box.
I am very impressed as well! What a cool-looking retro computer! Upgraded to continue working another 40 years, plus it even plays games. This old computer had impressive math capabilities, I read on Wikipedia, and was made in my state, Oregon. Love the keyboard. I wonder what would have happened had HP entered the personal computer market and these had ended up in schools instead of Apples or PETs. It does seem they had impressive capabilities as controllers.
Great addition to such a venerable old machine.
Amazing work. Very cool video.
This computer looks so awesome with the case off.
This has made my day! Curious Marc videos are always fascinating, but especially anything featuring the 80 series HP computers. I learned how to write code in 1980 on an 85A, and I recall that the 16k RAM expansion cost about GBP1000! My Masters dissertation was written around a multiplexed data acquisition project via a 3rd party device connected to the HPIB, which was plugged into a rack mounted 9915A. Data was stored on the built in tape cartridges, and I'm very grateful that we had very few failures! I absolutely loved our 85A, which never let me down. We then moved on to using the 9816 in about 1983, which was a huge leap. How about a feature on the 9816? Thanks Marc!
Absolutely fascinating!
ooh, that's FANTASTIC.
I hope they're still available by the time I'm back in a place where I can afford one lol
It's kind of comforting to be able to hear that CRT hiss haha
cool thing. nice work gents.
That's really cool! Neat project
One word: Excellent!
That is awesome. I've seen 85s but never worked on anything older than a 9000/200 personally.
Great idea. And executed well.
amazing project
Best name ever for a computer add on board. :)
I need this!
But I am not sure if it “musics”...
And now you do.
Hi if find your restoration vidros very interesting and entertaining to watch.
Funny thing is i have watched som videos of people exploring long abandoned places and found that that at the Tekoi test site they had this mainframe that they used supprisingly it is still there basiclly untuched i also noticed a HP-85 just sitting on a table there which i found pretty cool and again i am suprised that somebody hasn't already taken this stuff to salvage for the more valuable parts
So Amazing! Thanks
Fascinating!
This would have been great to see at VCF West this year
It's too bad HP never took on the 8bit home market. These 85s were just a bit too much for the common man. Neat stuff!
I was working for HP's Desktop Computer Division (DCD) about this time. Mostly on the HP9845.
HP had 3 or 4 divisions doing desktop computer like things at this time.
HP was an instrument company. They used to refer to machines (computers) on the 9845 production line as "instruments".
But probably the reason HP didn't invent the personal computer is "innovators dilemma". The 98x5 line of computers were primarily used for instrument control in industrial settings. Division management would never let you optimize a product for anything too far away from their cash cow.
The HP-85 came out of Corvallis. An outgrowth of handheld calculators I think. Always liked the box, never used it. I think the whole integrated computer, display, keyboard, storage thing mindset came out of the instrument controller application. Its convenient to have a single box to lug around with your instruments. The original PCs had separate displays. The laptop thing came later.
HP eventually did well in the PC market. But it took quite a while and a much different business model.
@@regulatorjohnson8640 Right. It was well into the IBM PC compatible wars before they got into the fray.👌
They would not be able to build it to a consumer price. HP kit was eye wateringly expensive
I doubt HP of the era were interested in building anything to a price point, as you would a home computer or video game system. It simply wasn't their business model, you may as well ask why 1980s Mercedes Benz never built something to compete with the VW Rabbit.
@@Broken_Yugo Interestingly, one of HP's biggest all time success stories were consumer grade printers. With that oh so profitable ink.
The printer business rode on the back of the PC phenomenon. HP had some interesting ink jet technology. The infamous Dick Hackborn figured out how to make a consumer style business model work within HP. A pretty good trick.
HP had this notion of "contribution" for some new product. HP never wanted to build me too products. The ink jet printers were pretty novel.
One of HP's first forays into the PC business was a touch screen PC. The touch screen was the contribution. Not well received in the market.
NEED THIS WANT THIS
Great tips/skill at 9:25
awesome video. I'm late to the party, but this is like a trip back in time. Someone here said "no need to call microsoft when windows 10 takes 5 minutes to start up..." rofl
HP 85 plus GP-IB controlling an HP1090A HPLC with HP1046 diode array detector, my wake up call in 1985.
Did everything it said on the tin and then some.
i have no idea how to use any of these computers but this is super cool
sweet. can't wait to see more of your hp-85 and this card. do i see a project in the future?
More HP goodness... the card reminds me a bit of the disk emulators made for C64s, the SD2IEC and it's many clones.
"Do you have any games installed?" .. asks Marc with a slightly guilty voice.
:D
It's really amazing that no one had realized the importance of arrow keys, even this long into the history of computers.
It has arrow keys, on the top row above the 8,9,0,- keys
very impressive!
amazing !
For some reason the tape door always got stuck, i took it apart and still could not get it to open correctly but I never bothered to buy tapes for it either, and there was some issue with my belt order. I was starting to work on a module like this using SD cards haha However I would have never gotten this advanced, great module !
That computer is adorable
I actually own a working 87XM which I haven't been able to use for much because I lack any kind of memory for it. I think I will now get an ebtks for it
That seems like a good idea. EBTKS gives you disk storage (on SD Card, and up to 256 KB of memory to add to the 87XM builtin 128 KB. Follow the links at the top.
Everett Kaser, the puzzle game guy
Pretty cool y'all
yay new video!
thats sweet!
Amazing.
HP equipment fun again!!!!
Beauty ❤
I remember using this in my sophomore EE class
Well ,well i was there .Let me explain .30 years ago I took apart a HP old Lips computer with one of those small monitors .and connected it to a Mac plus board ..and i had the smallest Mac on the planet ..Of course this was before the LCD screens ..