Yo I just got a job doing cooler unit repair for AT&T underground network equipment vaults, watching your vids gave me a good idea of what the trade is like and I think I’ll enjoy the whole troubleshooting aspect, I love a good puzzle! thanks for the videos!
Yo my mom used to talk about the CEVs all the time! She was. PM for Bell Atlantic when they were still around, I bet most of those vaults are the same!
@@zforce69 Honestly I was thinking about doing that, but I’m totally green to the industry so I’m going to be focusing on learning right now. maybe in a few months? :)
@@zashbot Cool, give it some time to get your feet and what the rules are around it but all that telecoms stuff is so cool, there are old AT&T bunkers built during the cold war to survive nuclear strikes and stuff. So awesome.
@@zforce69 too bad they obsoleted and made most of that useless as of 20+ years ago.. now days anythign major happens and RIP most all comms. except RF and even that will be useless.
Having an electrician check it out makes sense, the only thing I might recommend is a surge protector to protect the compressor and starting components from voltage spikes/power surges in the building.
I always liked using the Supco RCO-410 and 210 universal start relay, capacitor and overload combo units for a quick diagnosis and most of the time temporary fix. I actually have one on my home refrigerator and it's been working flawlessly for 5 months now and I've seen them run for years without any issues when a customer didn't want to spend more money on on a beaten down piece of equipment.
@@UltraHydrophobiccoat yes, and in this situation the RCO 210 would have been a plug and play for the RS45 1/2 Hp compressor. When putting a start cap on an old relay, you always run a risk of exploding another cap.
I would check the circuit that this unit is plugged into. If not a dedicated circuit, too many loads or circuit not robust enough for the load the voltage will drop too low specifically at inrush when comp comes on. We do alot of work for follett and they don't like it when the voltage drop at inrush to go below 108v That will fry start components and cause premature motor failure. Great video thanks
Very cool. I remember your previous video on this unit. It's great that you always replace the entire set of starting components. Glad you got approval to change the compressor, however I wonder about the root cause. I wonder, however, if there has been a bad batch of that exact part number of starting parts? Normally, when the capacitor explodes like that, it's due to the star relay becoming stuck and leaving the capacitor in circuit until it fails. You might want to install a different style starting relay and see if the problem is cured. I only work on antique and vintage stuff; so the prospect of changing a compressor out on a vintage machine often carries an emotional or sentimental cost to the customer above the money cost. I always try to be absolutely sure. Sometimes, I will install a temporary fuse in the capacitor circuit so that will blow, before the capacitor explodes. That will allow for narrowing the failure down to the capacitor its self, or the relay. If the fuse blows but the capacitor is good, then the relay is likely failing to disengage the start cap. If you're into the engineering side of things; you can compare the current the compressor draws while running with the capacitor in circuit - versus the current the relay drops out at. If there is very little margin, there could be a design issue where the relay is a poor match to the compressor; with that capacitor size. If this is the case, reducing the capacitor value may help the next relay to always disconnect the capacitor before it's overheated. Or; if you can't get it to work reliably, converting to a potential relay system could be an option. I realize it's different working on production and current equipment versus the vintage stuff. It may never pay to take the time to figure out the exact cause. But, in my opinion and in my situation it's always a good challenge. Every vintage cooler or fridge I get, always gets a new or rebuilt relay, and new overload. It's just not wise to leave those old parts in the system. Thanks again for sharing this! I'm sure your customer really appreciates your assistance with the helper taking care of the ladder on top of the beer cooler. Very few people give this level of service!
I agree that I think he was a little hasty on the compressor change out. 114v is really marginal (and at the limit of U.S. voltage tolerance) is likely indicates there's a voltage drop issue. It wouldn't surprise me if this unit is at the end of a very long wire run. Assuming the voltage going into the building is 120v, he has almost 5% voltage drop. That works out to be around 140ft of 12 gauge wire. If the starting current is around 50a, that voltage is going to get pulled down to 90v while starting. This is where having a fast multimeter with peak/max-min functions are so useful. To measure inrush current and voltage drop. Something like a Fluke 374 or 381 are fast enough to do this, and are not terribly expensive. I would have definitely tried an aftermarket starting setup before condemning the compressor. I would have definitely tried that well before the 4th call for a no-start in a year as well. I think people put too much faith in OEM parts sometimes.
@@grashoprsmith There are voltage drop calculators online you can find. Basically just punch in the wire length, gauge and then the current, and it will calculate voltage drop for you. Inrush is typically 5-9x rated current.
@@AmericanLocomotive1 - Wait. 114v is _not_ marginal, or at the limit of voltage tolerance, in any way, shape, or form. The nominal range is 110-120, with 120 being the standard aimed for range (despite people saying 110/220). In general, the voltage here (Houston) hits around 118. Computer equipment is a lot more sensitive to voltage than motors, but I rarely get concerned before the voltage drops below 108. For a lot of UPS systems (in my experience), that's the point where the battery backup circuits kick in and start to draw from the battery. For some, it's 100 volts. (if they have an inverter circuit so they can draw higher amperage on 100 volts to then convert to 110/120). Personally, I'd prefer the output voltage from the UPS to be closer to 110 than 120, because if they do a pass through, by the time you get to the switch over, you then smack the equipment with a 10+ volt power spike. I'll admit that you see "120/240 + or - 5%. In reality, the equipment is made for roughly + or - 10%. (Pick up the power brick for your laptop. The one right next to me is rated for an input voltage of 100-240 volts. The 80+ power supply I pulled off of a shelf is rated the same way - 100-240 volts. If they have a manual switch, they're labeled '110/220', usually. Not 120/240. The power supply in the PC next to me, by contrast, says 115-230 volts. It wouldn't be happy with a 240 volt input, apparently. Dell factory power supply - 100-240.) Just because they _say_ it can be 114-126 volts doesn't make it right. In fact, most equipment starts doing weird crap at 122 volts or so, in my personal experience. Probably due to 'minimum components we can get away with' construction. If it helps, here's a link to a PDF (if they let it go through) that goes through the ANSI C84.1 specification - www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf Minimum _Service_ voltage is higher than minimum _utilization_ voltage - to allow for voltage drop.
I have seen situations like yours where I was running through star caps and it turned out in the job that I was on every time the dishwasher would start it happened to be on the exact one of the legs that was supplying power to one of my units and when the dishwasher started there was something wrong with the pump motor that was running excessive current did not have the protection at most AC systems have and it was causing the low voltage drop and causing me to burn up capacitors on my refrigeration unit
I like that you change the start components all together, but unfortunately, I can't find thermal protectors, potential relays or induction relays locally. They have to be shipped to me locally from supply houses from Thessaloniki or Athens. And apart from potential relays ( that are one size fits all and are easy therefore to stock ), thermal overloads and induction relays must be ordered according to the compressor. Capacitors on the other hand, can be found locally, and are "universal" ( they aren't used only for refrigeration compressors ). So I only change inductance relays and thermal protectors when they fail, or when I change a compressor. I hope that soon I will be able to stock relays and thermal protectors, so that i can change them too. Three times in very short intervals is too much, I personally would suspect something going wrong with the compressor from the second failure, or at least check for voltage anomalies, issues causing short start-stop cycles, or harsh environmental conditions ( for example high ambient temperature ). But during a heatwave, and thus increased malfunctions to the equipment we install and service, sometimes we have to do less than ideal things in order to help the client go by until we are ready to do things properly.
Greece? maybe stock some of the most common yourself? yeah I know that's hard to do with the every changing junk being rushed and pushed to the markets like a nasty plague.
I have had this happen before and the case was the start cap was not being disconnected once the compressor started up. this lead to the cap overheating. this happen to us because the start relay was not being energized properly do to bad windings in the compressor.
Hey honestly as awesome as you are.. We need guys like you But you belong in substation with us. What we do is power lives. I went from an AC guy to an electrician to a Wireman to a lineman to a substation mechanic. Build maintain the very equipment used to power the electrical grid
Put a voltage monitor on that unit. For a week and see if low voltage is causing a high spike in amps. Is it specific times of the year to have problems for this unit? Big picture outside the box. Stay safe and be well.
@@zacharysamenfeld2487 I had a building and 2 of the 8 units would have problems. I out on phase monitors on all the units. Well never lost another motor after that. $15k for a condenser motor, and $20k for a compressor replacement.
I would definitely take a look at the supply voltage, reactive power is an elephant in the room so to say and I think that in cases like these you should look at that. You may have a device outside the unit that's contaminating the power. Also pay attention to the supply voltage since it should be a sinus curve and don't have spikes with overvoltage or any other kind of shape than a sinus curve. A high frequency of stop/start is another thing that is increasing the wear, but I assume that it's checked. Undervoltage can also be an issue, but I don't see that it's going to damage the capacitor.
Great video. Couple off things. First thing is 243uf wow that seems massive to me (uk) seems like a 1.5 ho compressor never seen a start capacitor that high. Do you use higher start capacitors in USA due to the higher heat of starting and more frequent starting? Have you found units like this blowing electrics more since they seemed to lean more towards a larger start capacitor instead or a small start and a run capacitor and heavier really (many compressors have went this way in the last 5 years in the uk,not all) finally I would have loved to seen the run current on the new compressor to see if there was any difference.
cool video, I would of olmed out the winding's to see if they looked good and maybe try to find a data sheet with compressor winding resistance information for comparison, if compressor is suspect. I would of also checked the oil for acid if I was changing the compressor. Thanks for video.
The bimetalic overliad is literally a thermostat, but they pass current thru it. But unlike a standard thermostat, the current flow in the strip instead of only in the switch. The higher the current, the hotter the temperature it get.
What is it about a compressor that would cause the starting components to fail? Others have mentioned other equipment creating surges - if that's the case you'll be replacing the compressor again? Trying for the big picture diagnosis here! ;-)
Hot compressor = hot capacitors, which then blows the protective oils out of the top of the cap. Anything that can make a motor hot, will also kill the caps. Short cycling, bad electrical connection (anywhere in the wires), low on refrigerant, bearings in the compressor, bad fan motor, etc. I cant think of anything else atm
Either that compressor was JUST on the verge of failing, or the capacitors are being cooked from heat buildup inside the enclosure. I do see other comments below regarding load on the branch feeding the chiller, and that could certainly be a problem as well. One would HOPE that it would have its own dedicated circuit, but who knows if that was actually done on install, or if other things were tapped into that branch since install.
Here in Illinois that voltage (114 volts) would explain it. That is low. Normal that I see residential or commercial is no less than 120 volts and usually it's 123-124.
114v already exceeds the less than 5% voltage drop the NEC allows for feeder and branch circuit combined. If there's something else on that circuit that has high start load, it could pull it below the NEMA rating 104v minimum standard (115v +/- 10%). Definitely looks like it needs an electrician to run the whole circuit for loads.
When you get a truly hot summer day, and everyone is running their A/C and refrigeration hard in the neighborhood, I'd expect it to be even a few volts lower than that.
This problem with the starting component failure and higher initial current draw kind of points to short cycling. I would advise on increasing the glycol storage unit capacity just to increase the thermal mass of the system. Would reduce the short cycling for sure.
With the refer temp and beer temp never getting low enough to freeze and crack that heat exchanger, what is the need for glycol? Ive personally never worked on glycol systems and have only worked on industrial air cooled chillers that use water as their medium. Just curious to hear your thoughts on that.
Cooltec Refrigeration. My dad was a rep for that company for years. They make hands down the best racks and single units. I've installed tons of them. I love the design on those chillers too. Your thoughts after working on it?
Thrttled gsnna gaung lool allover tackeing one not backed guesnes this way is no sny thimg do volaged only some strged now other new fatarey makimg old fatery stoped all mostely fatery manger is c19big pestged gues medicated guideans protackvety hr mor j m or big pint go tahat way is any pat cuael jobes selfed need sll prson hid jumping and drmma mind waste someing happened egpact gues good luckey chery not culd cupeling pain full hel they any something happeined no @@@@@?????%$&&*(¥¥¥£€_/÷×)(₩
I so appreciate you making videos for all of us, Thank You. I am looking to purchase a Freezer and Refrigerator, most everyone says get a Delfield. I would like your opinion if you don't mind, seeing you do repairs on commercial units. From your experiences would you say that Delfield is the best brand? I so appreciate your time and thank you for any insight you are willing to share with me.
That could be a high suction line superheat condition where the compressor continually overheats , short cycles on thermal overload ; Could be a problem with the txv ?
Did you measure the current on the new compressor? I was wondering if the old one was maybe right at the limit and that was killing the start caps. Also did you measure the peak start current of the old one?
It's too bad they can't just put an uninsulated glycol tank and pumps in the beer walk-in cooler and let that keep the glycol lines cold for the beer lines... Then, in theory, you don't need a separate cooling system for the glycol, just an aluminum box with heat-transfer fins in the tank and on the outside along with the glycol pumps themselves...save power and reduce heat generation (compressors get hot)...
Please tell me you are able to make the gauge and multimeter numbers larger in the feildpeice app . How is anyone suppose to read that from more than 2 feet away lol.
Maybe there is some probleme with the termostate and the differens anyhowe. Check that function and maybe increase it to 5 instead. To narrow between the compressor starting kills the starting components. Sorry fpr bed spelling - i am a swede.....
I hate when I have to defer to inductive reasoning to solve a problem. I prefer knowing for certain I have found the root cause. Sometimes, I have to replace a part as a last resort. Some technicians, however, use inductive reasoning for all their troubleshooting.
Is the factory starting capacitor undersized or subpar in quality? I’m struggling to see how a compressor cooks capacitors. I can see how capacitors could cook a compressor though…. Interesting
Hot compressor = hot capacitors, which then blows the oils out of the top of the cap. Anything that can make a motor hot, will also kill the caps. Short cycling, bad electrical connection (anywhere in the wires), low on refrigerant, bearings in the compressor, bad fan motor, etc. I cant think of anything else atm
@@Straight_White_Fatherly_Figure I guess I was thinking more about the physical compressor whereas a replacement fixes it. I agree all those would shorten the life of the capacitor, but assuming all the variables stayed the same but a replacement compressor and capacitor of same value were switched out and the problem went away, what would be different. A hard starting compressor from bad bearings or windings shorting would, but it was sounding great when he fired it up and every time they replaced the capacitor, the unit came back to life over the course of the year. I would not have thought a bad compressor would last that long. I guess the adventure continues and we'll see if this one is a later come-back.
I dunno, I'm kinda torn on this one. First, it IS a 115v system. Secondly, I noticed the wires on the cap were lightly charred, and the wires that were pulled off the compressor didn't display signs of heat but looked as wimpy as a wet noodle. IMO, I would call it a bad design. And I would've also put my amp meter on both sides of the cap to see what it was seeing.
I think the factory cap is crappy and in a bad position, using a better quality higher voltage capacitor externally would most likely last much longer. Remember capacitors dissipate heat during operation as they constantly provide the second phase to the compressor motor. Proper cooling is essential, it's right over thermal overload switch which also depending on rating will produce residual heat, all trapped in same plastic box. Bad design.
Do you Meg out the compressor? After the second set of starting components I usually Meg out the compressor! Also it’s a recovery machine not vacuum pump LOL JK we all have our long weeks
It’s a 115v system, what’s the problem with 114. I get that it’s low for a 120v system but this is clearly rated for 115. 114 could be the accuracy of the meter as they are usually +-1%. And yes on a 120v system things don’t work properly
Technically, you did put in 4 sets of starting components since the new compressor had a brand new set of starting components did it not? And when you installed the compressor, you also installed that 4th set of components... 😄😁😆😅😂🤣
I dont care what anyone says, nothing is meant to be in a system other than gas and oil. putting nylog all over around the suction on the compressor... i dunno man, that stuff is literally glue
Except when OEM is junk bottom-of-the-barrel quality that has a lifetime of 1000h to failure No electrical fault in a compressor that runs can cause cap failure. The only possible failure could be partially shorted windings, but that would have most probably stopped running, and shown increased current. Bad call and majorly wasteful!
Could have used oil test check for acid in oil been awhile carrier use to make test kits that just put on service vale break glass tip off testing tube vent small amount of refrigerant trunk service valve back off remove test tool check the color change
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
Yo I just got a job doing cooler unit repair for AT&T underground network equipment vaults, watching your vids gave me a good idea of what the trade is like and I think I’ll enjoy the whole troubleshooting aspect, I love a good puzzle! thanks for the videos!
That would be cool to see all those vaults. Maybe you should start a youtube channel. :)
Yo my mom used to talk about the CEVs all the time! She was. PM for Bell Atlantic when they were still around, I bet most of those vaults are the same!
@@zforce69 Honestly I was thinking about doing that, but I’m totally green to the industry so I’m going to be focusing on learning right now. maybe in a few months? :)
@@zashbot Cool, give it some time to get your feet and what the rules are around it but all that telecoms stuff is so cool, there are old AT&T bunkers built during the cold war to survive nuclear strikes and stuff. So awesome.
@@zforce69 too bad they obsoleted and made most of that useless as of 20+ years ago.. now days anythign major happens and RIP most all comms. except RF and even that will be useless.
Having an electrician check it out makes sense, the only thing I might recommend is a surge protector to protect the compressor and starting components from voltage spikes/power surges in the building.
And I'd change it out to a twist-lock.
in crackifornia, more likely to have brownouts and such from idiots hitting poles and stealing wire....
The quality of your videos is amazing. You are helping me become a better technician, thank you.
I always liked using the Supco RCO-410 and 210 universal start relay, capacitor and overload combo units for a quick diagnosis and most of the time temporary fix. I actually have one on my home refrigerator and it's been working flawlessly for 5 months now and I've seen them run for years without any issues when a customer didn't want to spend more money on on a beaten down piece of equipment.
i do not like leaving those on indefinitely.
It can only kick up up to 1/2 HP compressor. When you higher HP, you can’t use it as a diagnosis
@@UltraHydrophobiccoat yes, and in this situation the RCO 210 would have been a plug and play for the RS45 1/2 Hp compressor. When putting a start cap on an old relay, you always run a risk of exploding another cap.
I would check the circuit that this unit is plugged into. If not a dedicated circuit, too many loads or circuit not robust enough for the load the voltage will drop too low specifically at inrush when comp comes on. We do alot of work for follett and they don't like it when the voltage drop at inrush to go below 108v That will fry start components and cause premature motor failure. Great video thanks
more than likely brownouts and other low voltage conditions killing things at that place.
Great video. I strongly like the fact of keeping track of the equipment's history. I think is a plus for customer relations. Nice job. Learning a ton.
You are an excellent teacher. I learn much watching your vids. Thanks!
Your explanation of the quick compressor swap made me imagine you doing a refrigeration pit stop!
Every time I see bad starting components on something single-phase, it makes me appreciate 3-phase motors that much more...
It infuriates me that even with 3-phase equipment they still use single phase condenser fan motors.
@@uzlonewolf welcome to brownouts and phase loss... which still burns up everything 😒
Thanks for sharing the video, Chris !
Very cool. I remember your previous video on this unit. It's great that you always replace the entire set of starting components. Glad you got approval to change the compressor, however I wonder about the root cause.
I wonder, however, if there has been a bad batch of that exact part number of starting parts? Normally, when the capacitor explodes like that, it's due to the star relay becoming stuck and leaving the capacitor in circuit until it fails. You might want to install a different style starting relay and see if the problem is cured.
I only work on antique and vintage stuff; so the prospect of changing a compressor out on a vintage machine often carries an emotional or sentimental cost to the customer above the money cost. I always try to be absolutely sure. Sometimes, I will install a temporary fuse in the capacitor circuit so that will blow, before the capacitor explodes. That will allow for narrowing the failure down to the capacitor its self, or the relay. If the fuse blows but the capacitor is good, then the relay is likely failing to disengage the start cap.
If you're into the engineering side of things; you can compare the current the compressor draws while running with the capacitor in circuit - versus the current the relay drops out at. If there is very little margin, there could be a design issue where the relay is a poor match to the compressor; with that capacitor size. If this is the case, reducing the capacitor value may help the next relay to always disconnect the capacitor before it's overheated. Or; if you can't get it to work reliably, converting to a potential relay system could be an option.
I realize it's different working on production and current equipment versus the vintage stuff. It may never pay to take the time to figure out the exact cause. But, in my opinion and in my situation it's always a good challenge.
Every vintage cooler or fridge I get, always gets a new or rebuilt relay, and new overload. It's just not wise to leave those old parts in the system.
Thanks again for sharing this! I'm sure your customer really appreciates your assistance with the helper taking care of the ladder on top of the beer cooler. Very few people give this level of service!
I agree that I think he was a little hasty on the compressor change out. 114v is really marginal (and at the limit of U.S. voltage tolerance) is likely indicates there's a voltage drop issue. It wouldn't surprise me if this unit is at the end of a very long wire run. Assuming the voltage going into the building is 120v, he has almost 5% voltage drop. That works out to be around 140ft of 12 gauge wire. If the starting current is around 50a, that voltage is going to get pulled down to 90v while starting.
This is where having a fast multimeter with peak/max-min functions are so useful. To measure inrush current and voltage drop. Something like a Fluke 374 or 381 are fast enough to do this, and are not terribly expensive.
I would have definitely tried an aftermarket starting setup before condemning the compressor. I would have definitely tried that well before the 4th call for a no-start in a year as well. I think people put too much faith in OEM parts sometimes.
@@AmericanLocomotive1 how do you do the math to figure the voltage drop during inrush?
@@grashoprsmith There are voltage drop calculators online you can find. Basically just punch in the wire length, gauge and then the current, and it will calculate voltage drop for you. Inrush is typically 5-9x rated current.
@@AmericanLocomotive1 thx
@@AmericanLocomotive1 - Wait. 114v is _not_ marginal, or at the limit of voltage tolerance, in any way, shape, or form. The nominal range is 110-120, with 120 being the standard aimed for range (despite people saying 110/220). In general, the voltage here (Houston) hits around 118. Computer equipment is a lot more sensitive to voltage than motors, but I rarely get concerned before the voltage drops below 108. For a lot of UPS systems (in my experience), that's the point where the battery backup circuits kick in and start to draw from the battery. For some, it's 100 volts. (if they have an inverter circuit so they can draw higher amperage on 100 volts to then convert to 110/120). Personally, I'd prefer the output voltage from the UPS to be closer to 110 than 120, because if they do a pass through, by the time you get to the switch over, you then smack the equipment with a 10+ volt power spike.
I'll admit that you see "120/240 + or - 5%. In reality, the equipment is made for roughly + or - 10%. (Pick up the power brick for your laptop. The one right next to me is rated for an input voltage of 100-240 volts. The 80+ power supply I pulled off of a shelf is rated the same way - 100-240 volts. If they have a manual switch, they're labeled '110/220', usually. Not 120/240. The power supply in the PC next to me, by contrast, says 115-230 volts. It wouldn't be happy with a 240 volt input, apparently. Dell factory power supply - 100-240.)
Just because they _say_ it can be 114-126 volts doesn't make it right. In fact, most equipment starts doing weird crap at 122 volts or so, in my personal experience. Probably due to 'minimum components we can get away with' construction.
If it helps, here's a link to a PDF (if they let it go through) that goes through the ANSI C84.1 specification - www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf
Minimum _Service_ voltage is higher than minimum _utilization_ voltage - to allow for voltage drop.
Another superb job. Loved your processes and customer consideration.
My refrigeration teacher taught us to always change start components as a set. It’s good practice and also covers you ass
Great video. I work on glycol units n and a few r above cooler n no room to work. Definitely agree about 2 person job. Thanks
I have seen situations like yours where I was running through star caps and it turned out in the job that I was on every time the dishwasher would start it happened to be on the exact one of the legs that was supplying power to one of my units and when the dishwasher started there was something wrong with the pump motor that was running excessive current did not have the protection at most AC systems have and it was causing the low voltage drop and causing me to burn up capacitors on my refrigeration unit
Always look at the plug prongs for a bad outlet clue. Discolored metal or plug body is a sure sign of bad connection or longer term overload.
I always olm out cord also, to make sure its right and make sure the cord is not getting hot
All youre vids too the end... Thank you 4 my education :-)
Great informative video.
Really appreciate your videos 🙏
I like that you change the start components all together, but unfortunately, I can't find thermal protectors, potential relays or induction relays locally. They have to be shipped to me locally from supply houses from Thessaloniki or Athens. And apart from potential relays ( that are one size fits all and are easy therefore to stock ), thermal overloads and induction relays must be ordered according to the compressor. Capacitors on the other hand, can be found locally, and are "universal" ( they aren't used only for refrigeration compressors ). So I only change inductance relays and thermal protectors when they fail, or when I change a compressor. I hope that soon I will be able to stock relays and thermal protectors, so that i can change them too.
Three times in very short intervals is too much, I personally would suspect something going wrong with the compressor from the second failure, or at least check for voltage anomalies, issues causing short start-stop cycles, or harsh environmental conditions ( for example high ambient temperature ). But during a heatwave, and thus increased malfunctions to the equipment we install and service, sometimes we have to do less than ideal things in order to help the client go by until we are ready to do things properly.
Greece? maybe stock some of the most common yourself?
yeah I know that's hard to do with the every changing junk being rushed and pushed to the markets like a nasty plague.
@@throttlebottle5906 And that is what I intend to do. Stock starting parts for Tecumseh and Embraco at least.
Good job Chris.
I have had this happen before and the case was the start cap was not being disconnected once the compressor started up. this lead to the cap overheating. this happen to us because the start relay was not being energized properly do to bad windings in the compressor.
Hey honestly as awesome as you are..
We need guys like you
But you belong in substation with us.
What we do is power lives.
I went from an AC guy to an electrician to a Wireman to a lineman to a substation mechanic.
Build maintain the very equipment used to power the electrical grid
Quite another good one Chris!
Always a treat to see you upload.
Great video very informative thanks Chris
Put a voltage monitor on that unit. For a week and see if low voltage is causing a high spike in amps. Is it specific times of the year to have problems for this unit? Big picture outside the box. Stay safe and be well.
They sell self resetting low/high voltage breakers, I've put a few on suspect faults like this and magically the problems went away ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@zacharysamenfeld2487 I had a building and 2 of the 8 units would have problems. I out on phase monitors on all the units. Well never lost another motor after that. $15k for a condenser motor, and $20k for a compressor replacement.
@@zacharysamenfeld2487 can you send me a link for one
I have no need for an hvac operator and I believe he’s on the other side of the continent, on the west coast and I still want to hire him.
I would definitely take a look at the supply voltage, reactive power is an elephant in the room so to say and I think that in cases like these you should look at that.
You may have a device outside the unit that's contaminating the power. Also pay attention to the supply voltage since it should be a sinus curve and don't have spikes with overvoltage or any other kind of shape than a sinus curve.
A high frequency of stop/start is another thing that is increasing the wear, but I assume that it's checked.
Undervoltage can also be an issue, but I don't see that it's going to damage the capacitor.
it's crackifornia, probably had 200 brownouts in the last two weeks and multiple full outages in 2 months.
Good one Chris 👍
check the Adjustable Anti-Short Cycle Delay on A419
I always enjoyed working on those glycol beer chillers 👍🏻
Great video. Couple off things. First thing is 243uf wow that seems massive to me (uk) seems like a 1.5 ho compressor never seen a start capacitor that high. Do you use higher start capacitors in USA due to the higher heat of starting and more frequent starting? Have you found units like this blowing electrics more since they seemed to lean more towards a larger start capacitor instead or a small start and a run capacitor and heavier really (many compressors have went this way in the last 5 years in the uk,not all) finally I would have loved to seen the run current on the new compressor to see if there was any difference.
@@liam3284 ah thanks makes sense, I never really thought about the difference in voltage
That reverse screw trick on the electric box is brilliant always have a hard time with those little compressors in a tight spot.
What was the RLA of the new compressor at start-up, and close to set point I'm curious.
Great job
cool video, I would of olmed out the winding's to see if they looked good and maybe try to find a data sheet with compressor winding resistance information for comparison, if compressor is suspect. I would of also checked the oil for acid if I was changing the compressor. Thanks for video.
The bimetalic overliad is literally a thermostat, but they pass current thru it. But unlike a standard thermostat, the current flow in the strip instead of only in the switch. The higher the current, the hotter the temperature it get.
Its like a sequencer for a heater
We have glycol units now we need glucose and caffeine units 😂
You have dome everything correct. I wonder if their mains power is unstable / inconsistent. I would have also recommended a new compressor
I DONT SEE ANY NITROGEN
Haha just kidding. I know its not always necessary, especially when time is important.
What is it about a compressor that would cause the starting components to fail? Others have mentioned other equipment creating surges - if that's the case you'll be replacing the compressor again? Trying for the big picture diagnosis here! ;-)
Hot compressor = hot capacitors, which then blows the protective oils out of the top of the cap. Anything that can make a motor hot, will also kill the caps.
Short cycling, bad electrical connection (anywhere in the wires), low on refrigerant, bearings in the compressor, bad fan motor, etc. I cant think of anything else atm
Either that compressor was JUST on the verge of failing, or the capacitors are being cooked from heat buildup inside the enclosure.
I do see other comments below regarding load on the branch feeding the chiller, and that could certainly be a problem as well. One would HOPE that it would have its own dedicated circuit, but who knows if that was actually done on install, or if other things were tapped into that branch since install.
When replacing the capacitors do you replace matching existing or do you refer to the manual? Maybe someone before you used the wrong parts?
I always do the fan motors along with these small compressors. Cheap insurance.
So what are the main killers of capacitor/starting components? Could you check the windings of the comp? Something is taking them out.
The main killers are heat, low voltage and high currents
Here in Illinois that voltage (114 volts) would explain it. That is low. Normal that I see residential or commercial is no less than 120 volts and usually it's 123-124.
You can be under or over by 10 percent, or 12 volts. Not a problem.
I'm with a few others that supply voltage may not technically be low, but 114 sure does feel low. 👍
And you can bet it might drop below that sometimes
114v already exceeds the less than 5% voltage drop the NEC allows for feeder and branch circuit combined. If there's something else on that circuit that has high start load, it could pull it below the NEMA rating 104v minimum standard (115v +/- 10%). Definitely looks like it needs an electrician to run the whole circuit for loads.
When you get a truly hot summer day, and everyone is running their A/C and refrigeration hard in the neighborhood, I'd expect it to be even a few volts lower than that.
@@jkbrown5496 i thought the minimum was 110 with a maximum of 125 volts.
@@CotyRiddle The document I'm using was from PG&E called Voltage Tolerance Boundary. dated January 1999. It came up in a search sometime back.
This problem with the starting component failure and higher initial current draw kind of points to short cycling.
I would advise on increasing the glycol storage unit capacity just to increase the thermal mass of the system. Would reduce the short cycling for sure.
I'd get rid of the plug /socket and just put in a regular disconnect. Less likely to have a thermal breakdown issue
Thanks.
I am the electrician AND refrigeration gut for most my customers, i am screwed LOL
Hey Chris is it possible sharing the link for those 2 universal Capacitors you have. Start and Run. Thank you
Thanks again for the videos.
Could be that california voltage!😃
🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃🏌🏻♀️🎯
Stay safe.
Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!
With the refer temp and beer temp never getting low enough to freeze and crack that heat exchanger, what is the need for glycol? Ive personally never worked on glycol systems and have only worked on industrial air cooled chillers that use water as their medium. Just curious to hear your thoughts on that.
Also, is there flow switch lockout for the glycol or does it not even need one because its glycol and is meant for really cold temps?
I just realized that the SP is like 28 (so below freezing) but could you still not use water and just increase the SP above freezing?
Shouldn't start capacitors switch out of circuit once the motor is up to speed? Maybe it wasn't?
Adding a start delay will prevent cap over temp from frequent starts.
Cooltec Refrigeration. My dad was a rep for that company for years. They make hands down the best racks and single units. I've installed tons of them. I love the design on those chillers too. Your thoughts after working on it?
have a sparky look it allover and do voltage logging, very likely brownouts and other power issues causing it to early fail.
Thrttled gsnna gaung lool allover tackeing one not backed guesnes this way is no sny thimg do volaged only some strged now other new fatarey makimg old fatery stoped all mostely fatery manger is c19big pestged gues medicated guideans protackvety hr mor j m or big pint go tahat way is any pat cuael jobes selfed need sll prson hid jumping and drmma mind waste someing happened egpact gues good luckey chery not culd cupeling pain full hel they any something happeined no @@@@@?????%$&&*(¥¥¥£€_/÷×)(₩
Did you use a megger on the compressor?
Could also be the controls short cycling, is the HPC auto reset?
I so appreciate you making videos for all of us, Thank You. I am looking to purchase a Freezer and Refrigerator, most everyone says get a Delfield. I would like your opinion if you don't mind, seeing you do repairs on commercial units. From your experiences would you say that Delfield is the best brand? I so appreciate your time and thank you for any insight you are willing to share with me.
That could be a high suction line superheat condition where the compressor continually overheats , short cycles on thermal overload ; Could be a problem with the txv ?
12:23 vacuum pump? Just kidding I know how it goes working and make video not easy, great video keep it up 👍
how hot does the air get where the condenser is? could be overheat by ambient air (attic) ??
Did you measure the current on the new compressor? I was wondering if the old one was maybe right at the limit and that was killing the start caps. Also did you measure the peak start current of the old one?
From start to finish, how long did this job take to complete?
1.5 hours the first visit, and 3.5 hours the second visit
Nice video
I usually find the compressor runs for a few months and then packs in.
It's too bad they can't just put an uninsulated glycol tank and pumps in the beer walk-in cooler and let that keep the glycol lines cold for the beer lines...
Then, in theory, you don't need a separate cooling system for the glycol, just an aluminum box with heat-transfer fins in the tank and on the outside along with the glycol pumps themselves...save power and reduce heat generation (compressors get hot)...
Please tell me you are able to make the gauge and multimeter numbers larger in the feildpeice app .
How is anyone suppose to read that from more than 2 feet away lol.
I wonder if the start components are under sized for that Compressor, just makes me wonder.
I will usually replace the failed start components once, and after that if they fail again, the compressor gets swapped out as well.
What the hell is with building codes that would allow no railing above the walk-Ins so service people can’t fall off and land on the floor
Where do i sign the petition??
I would use another starting capacitor, maybe one with a higher voltage rating.
Maybe there is some probleme with the termostate and the differens anyhowe. Check that function and maybe increase it to 5 instead. To narrow between the compressor starting kills the starting components. Sorry fpr bed spelling - i am a swede.....
no hp/lp switch ? what happens if they wash their beer lines with hot water and cause the lp to rocket
Personally like the stoppage and voice overs.
Also makes me wonder if system capacity is designed too low for the application.
When do you condemn the compressor? Well, when it can't handle the pressure, that's when.
So why was the compressor changed for failing start components
The worst shock I've had is from a power inverter that had a hot chassis
I don’t see bleeding resistor on the capacitor that might overload the capacitor
I thought those were just for safety?
I hate when I have to defer to inductive reasoning to solve a problem. I prefer knowing for certain I have found the root cause. Sometimes, I have to replace a part as a last resort.
Some technicians, however, use inductive reasoning for all their troubleshooting.
Is the factory starting capacitor undersized or subpar in quality? I’m struggling to see how a compressor cooks capacitors. I can see how capacitors could cook a compressor though…. Interesting
Hot compressor = hot capacitors, which then blows the oils out of the top of the cap. Anything that can make a motor hot, will also kill the caps.
Short cycling, bad electrical connection (anywhere in the wires), low on refrigerant, bearings in the compressor, bad fan motor, etc. I cant think of anything else atm
@@Straight_White_Fatherly_Figure I guess I was thinking more about the physical compressor whereas a replacement fixes it. I agree all those would shorten the life of the capacitor, but assuming all the variables stayed the same but a replacement compressor and capacitor of same value were switched out and the problem went away, what would be different. A hard starting compressor from bad bearings or windings shorting would, but it was sounding great when he fired it up and every time they replaced the capacitor, the unit came back to life over the course of the year. I would not have thought a bad compressor would last that long. I guess the adventure continues and we'll see if this one is a later come-back.
I see you fixed the crane
Does glycol ever get into the beer? Does anyone ever check?
I dunno, I'm kinda torn on this one.
First, it IS a 115v system.
Secondly, I noticed the wires on the cap were lightly charred, and the wires that were pulled off the compressor didn't display signs of heat but looked as wimpy as a wet noodle.
IMO, I would call it a bad design. And I would've also put my amp meter on both sides of the cap to see what it was seeing.
I think the factory cap is crappy and in a bad position, using a better quality higher voltage capacitor externally would most likely last much longer. Remember capacitors dissipate heat during operation as they constantly provide the second phase to the compressor motor. Proper cooling is essential, it's right over thermal overload switch which also depending on rating will produce residual heat, all trapped in same plastic box. Bad design.
I bet you it’s a loose neutral in the breaker panel
Do you Meg out the compressor? After the second set of starting components I usually Meg out the compressor! Also it’s a recovery machine not vacuum pump LOL JK we all have our long weeks
Sounds like a nascar pit stop
RCO-410 resistance not too good,,,,
MAIN Problem is dirty condenser which over heats starting components . basic refrigeration
Here in Gerrmany Fieldpiece is slowy coming available, not testet it yet because it is so fucking heavy maybe after my next Testo brakes^^
Hey mate , do you know where to get it from ?
114 volts is getting a little low on volts. Should be 120. At 107 volts stuf stops working reliably.
It’s a 115v system, what’s the problem with 114. I get that it’s low for a 120v system but this is clearly rated for 115. 114 could be the accuracy of the meter as they are usually +-1%. And yes on a 120v system things don’t work properly
👍
When its grounded..
Technically, you did put in 4 sets of starting components since the new compressor had a brand new set of starting components did it not?
And when you installed the compressor, you also installed that 4th set of components...
😄😁😆😅😂🤣
I dont care what anyone says, nothing is meant to be in a system other than gas and oil. putting nylog all over around the suction on the compressor... i dunno man, that stuff is literally glue
Except when OEM is junk bottom-of-the-barrel quality that has a lifetime of 1000h to failure No electrical fault in a compressor that runs can cause cap failure. The only possible failure could be partially shorted windings, but that would have most probably stopped running, and shown increased current. Bad call and majorly wasteful!
Could have used oil test check for acid in oil been awhile carrier use to make test kits that just put on service vale break glass tip off testing tube vent small amount of refrigerant trunk service valve back off remove test tool check the color change
Click of death ☠️
I'm not paying for a new compressor. You better get it working no matter what.
Then you may be at a hard loss on a ton of beer
Could it not just be cheep caps that are failing. Why not try a high quality us made cap.