Mechanical Engineer here. I always warm any cold engine at least 20-30 seconds before driving regardless of outdoor temperature to allow for good oil circulation and thermal expansion of the metal parts to happen so that design clearances are obtained prior to applying a load (driving). Modern oils aren't a major issue down to pretty cold temperatures, viscosity wise, but the amount of oil between bearing surfaces (as a designed system) is dependent on proper clearances which is highly dependent on the engine reaching design temperature. That is why you shouldn't "drive hard" with a cold engine. With proper lubrication, all loads are borne by the oil and not any metal to metal contact. Most wear occurs during startup in modern engines. Or more realistically, due to improper maintenance or operation.
As an engineer, you are aware that there is a vast difference between driving hard after a cold start and gently starting off and remaining gentle on the throttle until the operator can see some movement on the temp gauge or feel some heat from the vents. This is such nonsense. At this point the "debate" should be well settled, because it has been the subject of so much professional research and testing, many decades and many millions of dollars. It is only those who think they know better than all those technicians and their findings that continue "debating".
I've personally seen a motor that was taken apart that was started and saw that it took the oil less than a second to completely flood the motor. Plus, based on my experience on starting my vehicle and driving off, regardless of the temperature, it has never resulted in any major problems in the last 8 years I've had my car. Back in the day, warming them up made sense with the carburetors, but now it's not necessary.
My 1990 Pontiac Sunbird's engine absolutely ran better after letting it idle two minutes (and switched from closed loop to open loop operation). Even the manufacturers know to control the startup procedure manually (through computer software programming) prior to allowing the sensor inputs to dictate how the engine's running. So I let mine idle even longer to warm up. I don't do that for my 2002 Subaru, though. I've yet to determine exactly why it performs so much better, but I'm assuming (presently) that it has to do with the aluminum block and superior systems, etc.
I've driven in Canada for well nigh 50 years now. From a stone cold engine in the morning, I've always let the engine warm up a bit while I scrape the windows and brush off the snow. You need a bit of heat in the cooling system to prevent your windows fogging up. Also it certainly doesn't hurt to let the oil warm up a bit for better lubrication before you hit the road, modern viscosities not withstanding. I've put 295,000 km (180,000 miles) on my current vehicle without any issues.
You can actually hear how helpful the warm up is when it’s -25 outside, plus as you said you can’t see shit when the inside of the windows freeze and the defrosters r still shooting cold air
@@philpyung4831 Most persons are not going jump into a car in -10deg C or colder and start driving, unless they are pressed for time (and that can be a hazard). Most Canadians are going to start the car, and while the car is warming up (engine & cabin), they clear the snow/ice from the windows or wait....Also as the poster indicated if we start to drive before the car actually warms up it becomes a hazard. The windows fog up and you cant see jack.....When I just moved to Canada I didn't know that and tried what you suggest...had to pull over and wait or risk hitting someone or something. Nah let that oil burn. 245,000+ km and counting.
I am in Québec . As you are aware I think Ms. Winter is harsher out here . I scrape the ice then get into the car and drive at around 20-40 kms it does not take long before the engine is warm and you can feel it then increase my speed never had any problems as such.
I made a big investment and had a petrol heater installed in my 2014 Forester XT. Living in Sweden, it is a nice feeling to have a warm engine and cabin before taking off when it's well below 0 degrees Fahrenheit :)
I've been arguing this my whole life, some people think I'm only letting the car warm up to heat the cab, some think I'm just wasting time and "it'll warm up faster if I drive". I had a girlfriend go on her phone before, and think she debunked me warming up my engine, because of the same nonsense like at the start of the video. I take good care of my cars. I keep them clean, on time with oil changes, and I grew up waiting for engines to warm up. I'm not about to change that. I have never had engine trouble before. Everything I ever drove went close to or above 300 thousand miles. Being in the northeast it's usually that the car rots out around me with a strong engine still in it. No matter what though, it's *MY* car, so I do what I want. They don't pay for repairs, i do. They can beat on theirs however they want. If I don't ask for their advice it's because I don't want it.
I am in Canada, and I use the electric block heater to keep the block warm, saves fuel by the engine going off fast idle a lot sooner, and the cabin warms up faster as well.
I'm not a mechanic, nor an engineer. Just a girl who loves her Subaru. But I did grow up working on cars and I do understand a bit about engines. I live in CO and I have always let my cars warm up at least until my RPMs drop. To me it's just common sense. It seems like that is the car's way of signaling that it's reached operating temperature and is ready to go. Can't imagine we wouldn't have heard about this long ago if it was a legitimate issue. Thanks for another great video!
My BRZ idles for a minute or two before the rpm drops, by then I know the car's good to go but I always give it a tad longer to be safe, I live in Arizona and I do this always not to mention
Your channel has been an amazing repository that’s helped me fix up and maintain my 04 XT Forester. In the past 3 weeks I’ve fixed so many issues with my car and have gotten it back to running like new, all DIY. From CV axels to power steering, idle relearn and a bunch more. Thank you for the great step by step guides.
Great video on warming up your Subaru engine in the cold. As Robert explains around 14:40, the importance of warming up to warm idle is paramount. As the owner of two Foresters and working on countless other Subarus with CVT’s over the years. Warming up your engine to the point of warm base idle (closed loop) will also preserve your CVT. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at high idle eventually ruins the forward / reverse clutches in the CVT. After tearing apart a few CVT’s with worn out forward / reverse clutches and returning them to the owner upon completion of rebuild. I have the owner start and drive the car. In every instance, the owner starts the car and puts it into gear at high idle. It is at this point where I try to explain why the forward / reverse clutches on their CVT failed. Depending on whether you put your CVT equipped vehicle in gear at high RPM or low RPM can and will make the difference between your CVT lasting 50,000 miles or 500,000 miles. The worse is when you are in high idle, put it in reverse to let’s say, back out of a driveway. While still at high idle, you put it in drive. Those are two transmission engagements at high idle which is double bad. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at low idle could be the single most important thing you can do to extend the life of your CVT. As I’ve told my kids who also drive CVT equipped Subarus. Only put it into gear at high idle if you are being chased by zombies, werewolves or criminals.
@@coreturkoane5570 This is true of manuals as well. I just bought a 23 crosstrek and it races 1800RPM in warmup. You work the clutch very differently when its idling that high. I took me a while to get used to it and I'm sure I put more wear and tear on the clutch in that time. Now if I engage a gear at that idle, I don't add any gas with the gas pedal at all. Doing so can easily cause you to get a slight burning smell. If I could turn off the high idle, I would. I don't like it at all.
I just found this video as we roll into winter in December 2023. I have always felt it made sense to let a gasoline engine warm up, especially in frigid weather. What great video with a great explanation.
@@jake51515 yep, slow driving is literally warming up a car... But better. People act like sitting at idle does something different under the hood. Letting the oil pump circulate oil while driving slowly will get oil around the engine and up to temp faster than idling.
I am 71 years old. I have maintained a lifelong habit of letting my engine warm up for at least five minutes. I never start to drive while the engine is at high idle. I regularly get 300,000 to 500,000 miles (or more) out of a car. I have never paid for an engine overhaul.
I agree with your opinion completely. FYI my 1999 Subaru outback 30 anniversary currently has 1.19 million miles on it I attributed to two things. As we put most of the miles on it in Northern Vermont we always warmed our engine up number two I have always done regular maintenance on it and when one item goes I replaced the other one also such as a CV joint or shocks anything that comes in pairs or quads. The first thing we did when we bought our new Subaru was literally driving to a remote start installation service and installed a aftermarket remote start and I had them set the runtime at the longest interval which is about 15 minutes. On cold days we make sure to park it with the heat and all defrosters on and let it time out when we remote start it at 15 minutes. Sometimes we even run it through two cycles. The car has survived temperatures of -42 not wind chill in Northern Vermont. Now we live in Central Indiana but whenever the temperature goes below 32 we always use the remote start and have a nice warm running car to get into which I should add is also safe because it is fully de-iced. I enjoy your videos very much thank you. I am 71 years old and still enjoy working on our Subarus are more recent Subaru is a 2010 outback. Much lower quality than our 99 Subaru however with proper care and maintenance and of course remote start on cold weather we consider it our low mileage Subaru with only 256,000 mi on it :-)
Great story Philip, we have had Subarus for 20 years now, last three have been Outbacks, currantly driving a 08 2.5SE. My previous was a 2001 VDC H6, and just like yourself I noticed the quality issues, the plastic tailgate, the skittish feel in comparison when on rough tarmac sections, all sorts of little things that make the newer car feel cheaper in my eyes but only noticeable if you have owned an earlier model. I have a set of 16 inch wheels from the VDC, may try those as prefer a softer ride, and the ability to drive up kerbs etc. the 17inch wheels look good, but not convinced yet. If I could have found a low miler 2000-3 H6 I would have bought it in a heartbeat, I think as do others these were the best years build wise. Can't complain about the gas milage for sure, but sure miss the smooth torque and overtaking power for sure of the H6, I suppose all that saved weight had to have a knock on effect, prefer the rear seat fold down system, hate the complicated sat nav unit, miss being unable to turn off VDC when in deep mud or snow. Older cars get a rough time here in the UK as our Government love to spread rocksalt on the roads, so rust can be a killer, also careless owners and abuse can shorten cars lives if used hard for towing etc. Mine is barely run in at 115,000 so hopefully apart from the usual Subaru niggles, will se me through, all the best and may all your gaskets be oiltight, and many more happy miles!
@@kennyrojas4014 Same here! Kenny 2 Kenny, this is my first subie and I'm already glad I made the choice. It's more practical than my Denali, cheaper to maintain, and has more ground clearance. I couldn't change my oil without lifting the GMC up in the air. I'm learning as I go.
I've always been a supporter of warming up the engine, and I always cite the same expansion/contraction reference you made when explaining this to other people. We have temperatures that drop to below -40 up here in Canada, so for small engine cars I usually, after 2-3 mins of running, suggest taking off slowly and maintaining an RPM at or below 2000 until the gauge starts to read. Otherwise, the car will never actually warm up at those temperatures. Excellent video! And I agree entirely with your logic.
Thank You Mr. Subaru !! Excellent Accurate explanation for the Modern Subaru Blue Temp Light . 100% in agreement let warm up until the Blue light turns off.
I saw the exact "Verified" report a few days ago. It made me laugh out loud! The absolute ignorance of the statements from those so-called "technicians." I'm a lifelong mechanic/technician, engine builder and automotive machinist. And their excuses of why you don't warm your engine is the most ignorant statements I've ever heard!
well the engineering/engineers do bear this out, and fleets of gas vehicles acknowledge this, though of course practical demands are a factor too, ie the need for driver to be warm enough to operate vehicle safely!
So glad you saw this and had the same response as I did to it. I always warm my engines up before driving. Even after my engine is warm I still take it east to let the transmission and diff fluids warm up before I get on the highway and reach higher speeds. Oil ratings also dictate operating temperatures. Thicker oil is going to flow slower than thinner oil in the cold. So warming up the oil will help ensure that its doing its best to lubricate everything.
I live up in Canada and during the winter it's not uncommon to get -20C to -30C and when I warm up the car I set the parking brake and put the transmission in neutral (automatic) so the pump circulates allowing it to warm up. I will mostly do this around -15C and colder. I also let it run for 20 minutes once it get's colder than -18C. Also, the oldest car I own is a 2005 Honda CR-V I bought brand new and it now as 350,000KM on it and have never had any problems with the engine for letting it idle that long. I do all the normal servicing and still bring it to the dealer for trans flushes and diff service, oil changes I do myself when it warm out but I even bring it to the dealer to have them in the winter.
Great vid and info. I have a 2022 Mazda CX-9 and it also has the same blue temp light "feature" and the manual also states the same about letting the car warm up before driving. The dealership I purchased from stated that it's "okay" to drive while said light is on as long as you don't enable Sport Mode or accelerate hard until the light has turned off. Thanks again for the info 👍
Love when you showed the blue temp light. My light is green & there is a red light when it gets too hot. Imagine that. In 1962 that was standard in Chevy trucks. As the engine warms up the green light fades out. The main reason for that is to give the temperature time to come up enough to open the thermostat. The open thermostat let's the warmed coolant to circulate through the radiator. It's real crucial with my 261ci six cylinder. Yes I am in the middle of doing the timing belt & water pump kit on my 1997 Subaru legacy Outback 2.5l. That's how I found your channel.👍
Upon starting my Forester, I always wait until the high idle drops down to about 700 rpm before driving. It just feels right to do so. And yes I always wait for the blue light to go out.
I have a 2015 Forester XT 2.0 and I always wait for that little blue light to go out and idle to drop. I watch a YT video several years ago and the guy said there's a heat exchanger on the Forester that uses the coolant to warm up the CVT transmission fluid. I don't want to take any chances and cause my transmission to wear out prematurely. I already replaced it at 115k because of the front differential going bad and it's part of the transmission internals.....$8k
This has to be one of the most common-sense explanations I've heard. Yes, I warm up the car before driving you can feel the difference how the car responds from when its cold verses warmed up. You just reaffirmed what I've been doing when its very cold. I would think this would apply to all cars in cold climates.
I'm a "first time watcher." I greatly appreciate that you paired together logic and correct information.....what a combo! 😂 I have avoided idling my car(s) to decrease excess emissions from the standpoint of the efficiencies of the catalytic converter. I have driven my Subaru Crosstrek with the little blue temperature light on and as you said, bundled up, using the heated seat, and trying not to breath (at least not on the windshield.) Your point about the "idling up" is well received. I don't prefer the way the car "feels" before it has reached the recommended operating temperature. And I'm guessing at that point my emissions are higher (I think it's a reasonable assumption.) While I would normally start the car and drive forward very slowly some distance, I will now allow it to idle a bit - and not feel guilty! I've had my 2021 Model Crosstrek a few months now. Prior to that I was driving a 2007 Corolla. And before that a 1993 Nissan Sentra with a manual transmission .I believe that companies such as Subaru are doing well to expand the sophistication and features on modern cars to make them perform better on many levels. Of course, these features have to be used the way they are designed to be used. I appreciate that you helped me increase my understanding.
That is just completely crazy and ridiculous. If that’s the case my dad‘s 85 c10 should’ve took a dirt nap a long time ago. In the winter time he would let it run 10 to 15 minutes before taking off. It has almost 400,000 miles on it, it has the 4.3 V6 in it and a four barrel carburetor.
@@petemitchell6788 I have been told that I have a gas tank for a brain and nos run’s in my veins and No all the truck I have rude in had working exhaust system because we had e check back then 😁😆
Thank you Mr Subaru. I just bought my first Subaru and I love it. And now that I found you and all your great content I know more about how to maintain the car I own and love. I appreciate you and I’m grateful for your content. God bless.
I always let my vehicles warm up a little bit, especially in the winter living in MT. My Subaru started up even when we had -28°F temps not including wind chill! Love my 07 Outback!
@@yoloparrot42 Wind chill is the effect of wind blowing the heat your body has generated away from your skin, exposing your skin to the ambient temperature. Since the car is not producing any heat when off, there is nothing to blow away.
Thank you Mr. Subaru for confirming my long held belief. I currently have a 2017 legacy, and just bought a 2018 Crosstrek. The legacy has a gauge, the Crosstrek does not. It has the blue light. I always let a cold engine warm up before going anywhere.
One additional thing to consider is that warming up your engine does not warm up the transmission or the differential etc. So either way drive the car gently for a while and remember that lubricants take longer to warm up than coolant. In really cold weather it may take 30 to 60 minutes for lubricants to temperature stabilize so easy does it. My rule of thumb is to start the car before cleaning off the snow and ice and wait until idle speed gets below 1000 RPM before gently driving off.
little do people know, an engine that never turns off and idles vs one that cycles constantly ; the engine running forever would last longer since its not subjected to thermal stress/expansion
yes, but 'last longer' meaning what exactly? In other words, the whole pt of this vid is about the debate in engineering auto ICE engines, re warming up causing damage , which idle-type warm ups do cause a bit of damage in some ICE gasoline engines. Your topic is different, and really has no practical application except when discussing the value of a used car. If a mechanic or experienced person can get some indication that a car had mostly highway miles and was not a daily driver, then that car is indeed a much better condition car, overall. (bcuz heat cycles are what age everything)
I think oil temp is more important than coolant temp for the longevity of your engine. But I will always let the STi warm up before taking off and keep it under 4k rpm's until operating temp. How long is dependent on how cold. At least wait until I see the temp needle move and hit its first line, usually within 3-5 mins. (I'm in CO btw)
Yep. I let mines warm up until the dash temp gets to half way then don’t go over 4k rpm’s for another 2/3 minutes. Especially with boosted cars I’ve always been told to let the car warm up. It’s the oil temp & expansion of the engine components that are the important thing.
2003 Forester EJ 25. It gets very cold where I live in the winter. I have always warmed the engine pretty good before driving. Then go easy for a while to fully warm before applying pressure. 216,000 plus miles now, and zero head gasket issues etc. Still runs good. I did need to replace my fuel pump, as it got weak and that caused plugs to burn lean, and that fries them with no code thrown. Go long enough, and eventually you will get a misfire code when fuel delivery is the actual problem. Warm that puppy up!
Great point about driving immediately with a fogged up windshield! Safety first, no matter what is recommended! I think this is all about fuel economy standards and manufacturers and governmental agencies making sure no fuel is wasted while the car is warming up. Of course you should let your car warm up for a few minutes. The engine oil and coolant, the trans fluid, the differential fluids are all at ambient temperature when you first start the vehicle. It’s just common sense to let those fluids warm up a bit before driving. And for me, even after I start driving, I take it easy until the operating temps are near normal. Good video, thanks.
@@charleshuffman6982 This is true, thanks for clarifying. I guess the exception would be vehicles like the Subaru, and the Toyota RAV4 that have the front differential built into the transaxle, these might get some slight warming of the fluid from the transmission and possibly the engine during warmup.
@@charleshuffman6982 I have a long driveway so sometimes after I've clear the windows I will drive back and forth so I'm technically not idling. I don't think we have any regulations about idling in the driveway where I live but I could be wrong.
When it's super cold and I start my 4.7L Dodge truck, there is a horrible, fingernails-on-a-chalkboard screeching noise as the overhead cams run dry until the oil reaches them, and I'm using a full synthetic oil. I'm going to let it warm up awhile, no matter what the experts say.
I have a 2021 Subaru, my first automatic transmission in maybe 50 years. I ALWAYS warm the engine (all year round) till the little blue cold light goes out and the idle drops to 700 or 800. I refuse to drop it into gear while at high (cold) idle (1800 rpm in my car). Putting it into gear at 1800 rpm has to be an issue with the CVT in the long term. Ain't happening in my car. Needless to say I really make great use of the remote start, especially during the winter in NY. Nice presentation.
Hi Mr Suburu, great channel, subbed 6 months and often check out your content, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You state sensible facts and logic, I totally agree with you. My wife drive a 2013 forester here in central Canada, the cold part lol, we always warm up the car, and will continue, NO matter what environmentals say...
The CVT on Subarus is meant to specifically run a certain weight oil and it's only at that weight after it warms up so I warm it up for my CVT more than the engine.
Older cars don't have heaters in the transmission so while letting it idle will warm the engine it won't warm up the tranmission. Most cars will be limited to second gear (or the cvt equivilent) when cold to help warm the transmission fluid faster.
@@robertkraft2358 My understanding is that the heat exchanger for the tran only exchanges to ambient air and therefore can only be used to cool the engine. In my expereince no amount of idle will warm a CVT transmission, I've left my car running for over an hour before when we had a power outage and I ran power to the house from an inverter. The engine temps were at operating but when I went to change parking spots the transmission was still slugish.
I have a 2013 XV Crosstrek. I live in NE Washington. In the winter, I generally let it warm up for anywhere between 1-3 minutes, or maybe closer to 5 minutes if the temp is 10 degrees or less. The amount of time I let it warm up depends on the ambient temp outside.
I have 2016 forester and live in Phoenix. I have never waited for the blue light to go out before driving. I’ve never done anything different on any vehicle I had before this one either. I just drive gently and easy for the first few miles. The rpm’s drop as soon as I shift into reverse or drive so I don’t get the difference between warming at high rpm idle or lower rpm gentle driving.
Very well explained! I read the exact same article and came to the same conclusion as you and others did. The article made 0 sense to me as I rationally thought “The oil will be circulating from the oil pump regardless of wether the engine is idling or the vehicle is being driven. Thank you for clarifying this and putting it to rest. Sadly, there are going to be people out there who will take this at face value and follow it. Those people are going to be the ones risking potential engine failure at some point. I also drive a Subaru and do let it warm up for several minutes before driving away. I live in Canada and believe me, on COLD winter days, I not only have the block heater plugged in but also start and warm up the engine before driving away. I’ve found in my experience two things: one - if I don’t do this, my transmission is sluggish etc; two - that blue engine temp icon takes roughly 2 - 4 minutes to go off indicating that the engine is sufficiently warmed up. To drive away to prematurely risks damage to the CVT and I’d rather not have to pay that bill to get that repaired/replaced! Thanks again!!!
just, no! repeat after me: the engineer designers literally designed the car engine and other parts to warm up so quickly after u start engine that it's safest and easiest on the engine to start driving at your earliest convenience, ie, within that first minute or two. They designed the system to NOT be harmed (in fact opposite) from driving immediately after starting. This is a FACT and all the mfr's have data on it and it's in the design specs. I like facts. And i like buying used cars from ppl who follow the instructions of the mfr!
It probably boils down to emissions. It pollutes more when cold. However I need heat. The heat does not work unless the engine is warm. So it will set there and run until the heat is ready to go.
Oh My ? We live in Northern Nevada and it is cold --one day is is 11 or 12 in the morning and the next it is 25 to 28. We have a 2005 Froester with a automatic trans, we let it warm up in the mornings, we also have a 2018 Camaro with a manual trans, (if the weather is bad the Camaro stays home). I watch the trans temperature gauge (and engine oil and water temp also) My wife is looking at a much newer Subaru, Crosstrek.. In Carson City, (Dealer) Oh yes we are in our late 70's. Please keep up your good work (advice) !
Happy Christmas from Jamaica. I live in tropical climate all year long and I do warm up my 2008 Impreza every morning until the light goes off before hitting the road.
Makes sense to warm up. I’ve notice in my 2018 Crosstrek gets about 90 km until it goes down 1 bar of gas in the summer but in the winter it’s about 70 km. I lose about 20 km in the winter due to warming up because on this cold days or nights I’ve sat in my car waiting 5 to 6 min for the blue light to go out. But I think it’s important especially for the cvt to be warm.
I appreciate your input. Both of my cars sit still till at least SAI has completed its cycle and the idle drops. I then begin driving gently. Especially the flat 6. My beater is all aluminum as well. I wait till at least 180 F before I break 3000 rpm. In the flat 6. The beater is a pooch. So no need to hammer on either of them till some slow building heat has occurred. Thanx for the information. I’ll sit a little longer. The temp I speak of, is oil temperature.
Thanks for making this. There are so many hobbyist channels about cars particularly subarus where the owners of the channel make claims like you don't have to wrm up the engine before driving, or engine break ins are a sham. We need more educated techs like yourself spreading true information that eont lead to premature failure
I always let it idle for a minute or two, and then drive slowly until the engine is fully warm to get the fluids moving around. I think we need to consider the fluids in the differential and transmission too. I've been doing this for years and have 250,000 on a V6 Malibu and 170,000 on a Grand Marquis. Both run like new, don't burn oil, and have never let me down.
2001 F150 with 241k on it. Same timing chain and heads have never been remove. Been warming it up for over 20 years and no problem. Motor is still strong as ever. Change the oil regularly and that is it. Still strong and pulls my 5000 pound boat with ease
2003 Subaru 200K miles. Never warm the engine EVER. I take it easy till the car is warmed up. Change the oil every around 5k the damn thing burns oil like it's no ones business. My dad has a Silverado with 240k miles. Never has been warmed up in its life. The damn thing has the original transmission, and engine. I cannot believe that thing is still kicking. Idk how often he replaces the oil. This is all location based. Follow your manual. If they stay to warm it warm it if they don't it doesn't matter.
The only thing I’ll say in my experience as a mechanic is that direct injection does strip some oil from the cylinder walls compared to port injection. But my truck has both so when it’s cold it only uses port injection. All you really need depending on temperature is a minute or 2 before driving. Everyone has different conditions, cars and needs. So your experience may differ
When it's really cold I warm up my vehicles the fluids are thicker than normal so you end up putting extra stress on your fluid pumps especially if you just start it up and drive off. The extra stress may not amount to anything but the thermo expansion of pistons, heads, and cylinder blocks can cause issues if one expands faster than the others
I've got a 22 Outback with 18,000 mi on it and live in Massachusetts and I'm not sure I've ever seen the blue light! In any case I do warm up the engine but I do it my way. I start the engine and basically drive immediately but very gently. I keep the rpms at 2000 or under for the first couple of miles. This means I will actually pull over to the side of the road if there are people behind me wanting to pass. I would never, never gun the engine immediately after starting on a cold day and am really glad I don't live right next to an interstate where I'd have to get up to speed immediately. I'm 70 years old and hike a lot but I don't hike quickly up steep hills at the beginning of my hike. I give my body a chance to warm up - my heart rate, lungs, joints, muscles, etc. I treat my car gently the same way!
Having grown up in 50s and 60s in upstate NY, I remember seeing temperatures cold enough to freeze radiators when cars were driven without warming up, Modern antifreezes seem to have solved that issue but I still let my car warm up for all the other reasons discussed in this excellent video.
I am new to both an outback H6 and an engineer and You have correct logic and love your videos Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Keep up those videos!
Thank you for the information, (the whole oil pump not working at idle thing seemed kind of silly) but I always thought that the cold engine light was for the CVT as a reminder not to accelerate to harshly until the CVT internals are up to 140 deg. Additionally, when it is cold, I usually wait until the engine is warmed up. Once I am driving the blue light is still on, the RPM will be higher than I usually see it at. After the blue light is extinguished the engine RPM will normally drop off top what I consider a normal RPM range, this usually takes about three to five minutes depending how cold it is.
My 07 Outback XT has the blue light and if it's on, it prevents you from putting the car into S# mode, so yes, it's definitely to prevent the engine from being revved too high.
As usual, when people communicate in absolutes they are to be questioned. What I do when it is cold is let the engine warm up until there is enough heat in the heater core to keep the windows clear enough to drive with proper visibility (by then the oil is definitely up to temperature) and then I drive.Waiting longer just burns gasoline and drains my wallet needlessly. Idling while warm does no damage, the engine is designed to run that way as well as at highway rpms, but in a cold engine the first seconds during start-up can be hard on an engine in certain conditions - its unavoidable, the oil isn't instantly flowing everywhere it needs to be. Further, most American's don't know cold conditions like most Canadians do. Here we have block heaters pretty much standard, we use them in cold and seriously cold weather so the oil stays thin enough to flow properly though the oil pump - this is the epitome of "letting your engine warm up" even before turning the key, because when it is minus 40°F/C you will certainly damage your engine if you don't let it gently warm up. You might not even be able to start your engine without using the block heater, and possibly battery heater, for hours before you try to start it. The problem with an immediate high idle when your engine is at minus 40 is that you are almost sure to create hot spots in your engine. So, the use of high idle after starting in the cold is relative to how very cold it is - in most of the lower 48 an immediate high idle is just fine, but occasionally in certain regions when it gets truly cold it seems prudent to allow your engine to heat slowly at low idle even if it will cost a cup of gasoline to do so. Nutshell - some of what I said there sounds contradictory, that is because there is no ONE answer that applies to ALL situations when you are starting your car. The human desire for absolute answers that are always one way in every situation is just plain ignorance. Also, I haven't tried to cover every aspect of starting an engine while it's cold, so don't bother calling me out for missing things - I know.
If newer cars with lots of plastic parts get those plastic parts get too hot too many times they'll fail eventually. You are totally correct about modern EFI engines, I was startled to hear that article you read, I must have been written by someone who knows little about internal combustion engines. Also driving away, gently, the engine will warm up faster then letting it idle for a long period of time. I have lived in Chicago, Colorado, Alaska and Michigan all my life and did controlled studies with each new car I've owned for the last 45 years. They all warmed up faster if you drove them, gently, than letting them idle for a long time.
A car will warm up faster if you drive it gently than idling. Gentle driving will take the engine up to, let say 2000rpm. The engine warms up due to the amount of explosions in the combustion chambers and the friction of the components. These are both greatly increased if the engine is at 2000rpm. The problem is, the oil in the engine is not warm enough to lubricate properly at 2000rpm under load.
@Harvey Smith second this. I installed an oil pressure gauge in my car, and the cold start reading is at over 100 psi. High oil pressure isn't always a good case when the oil isn't properly warmed up. Cus the oil isn't as free flow as it should be, all oil has an optimal operating temperature window. Too low or too high is bad for the engine. My best analogy is when the engine oil is too cold. It's like trying to run Mapple syrup through your metal bearings. Sometimes, those syrup don't have enough juice to get to the dedicated spot to lubricate the engine parts while underload.
@@harveysmith100 People just forget that atleast here...there is nothing gentle about when you drive in the snowdrifts and clogged up winter roads when it has been snowing :D but anyway the article lacks any real info. you dont need to actually wait for 15 minutes to warm up the engine..but common sense says that 1 or 2 minutes of letting all things get going smoothly does nothing but good when you like clear the snow off the car in the meanwhile.
I've used the factory remote starter in my 2017 Forester every winter since I bought it new, 7ish years ago. I usually let it run 3-5 minutes, and have never encountered any issues. The car just turned 100K, and runs like new.
I grew up with a '57 chevy all the way to my 2018 Outback. I have always let my engine warm up before driving, especially living in northern Michigan. I completely agree with you. My son warms his 2023 Crosstrek until the rpms drop and the water temp light goes out. To me it is logical (knowing how cars and engines work) to warm an engine to operating temperature.
I have been more intentional since my last oil change about letting my 14 crosstrek warmup even in the summer, but especially in the fall/winter for a few minutes until the lights off before driving and I think it has helped to keep my oil level consistent with out any noticeable consumption taking place.
U either have the oil issue or u don’t with that model. U obviously got a good one so did I. Sold my 14 Trek was so gutless and uncomfortable on highway trips. Definitely a City car. My 3.6 Outback is dreamy on long highway trips.
I totally agree with you. Especially we have subaru engines and that is what Subaru said in the manual. "Warm up the engine before driving off. I always warm up the cold engine before driving off both in winter or summer. Of course in summer, it takes less time to warm up. Thanks very much, Mr. Subaru. Joseph Lau, Australia
I always let my Crosstrek warm up until it goes into closed loop (blue light off) for the reasons noted in the video, but also to avoid unnecessary wear/stress on the CVT by dropping it into gear when the cold idle is still high at 1,800 RPM.
Agreed 100%. Has to hurt dropping it into gear at 1800 rpm. I always wait till the idle drops to normal (700 or 800), which happens mere seconds after the blue light goes out.
It still has a torque converter, which is going to absorb any high idle "stress" from putting it into gear. Any extra wear you might be thinking about isn't enough to matter unless you plan on that transmission doing 1,000,000 miles. Probably not even then.
My dad has a Honda civic and we always wait for the blue light to go off before driving, I have a Chevy spark and I don't have a light but I always wait about 5 minutes before driving and we have no issues in doing this. I have always been a fan of waiting a while to allow for proper lubrication and allow some temp to get into things before placing the engine under load and after the idle period when I first take off I like to have 10 minutes of drive time before running hard, after that it's off to the races.
Hi from Canada. if i can see out the windows I'm ready to drive. That seems to work at any temp down to -40. of course at -40 the block heater is plugged in. with full synthetic i never used the block heater until about -20c
I live in Reno nv presently. The lows have been around 7 degrees even when the temps are at 32 degrees I use the remote start to warm up the engine compartment because the engine will be way much colder. When I get in my OBW I look at the temperature panel and the coolant temperature gauge. When the engine temperature is at 118 degrees then I drive off slowly and do a break check on the ice. Then I take off. I am an heavy equipment operator so I am familiar with the cold starts.
When I was ordering my 24 impreza rs there was accessories and features I was really considering for the car. For starters the engine block heater actually works in cold climates and helps start the car easier
Thanks for the notification. It has to be old-timers myth though. Another thing that I recently heard is that you should not turn off the engine (with turbo) right after turning down from the highway (driving at high speeds). To get gasoline or similar. You should keep engine running when parked for another minute.
2011 outback 3.6r owner here. I use an obd scanner and can monitor the engine temp. The blue light goes off at 120F. The idle speed also drops well before the blue light goes off, which takes about 2 minutes even when it's only 40F outside. In this video you said " between 100-120F. I'm just curious then, if 100F is ok, then it is ok to drive the car before the blue light goes off?
I think it's a good idea to warm up your engine before driving, though I'm guilty of taking off sooner than I should, but where I live, I really can't go over 25 for about a mile, so I drive about 20 mph in second gear and the engine isn't running much above idle. The blue light usually goes off after about a half mile. It doesn't get very cold here in northern Arizona anyway. Flagstaff can get very cold, but the elevation isn't so high where I live.
Absolute GOLD / ACCURATE information - agree with every word you gave. Also - just as you mentioned - on modern fuel injected engines - the engineers have used ALL the electronic engine sensors which the ECU ( engine control unit ) also referred to as PCM ( power train control unit ) uses to be VERY ACCURATE / PRECISE for the air / fuel mixture to the engine - so on any cold engine startup - as you mentioned - the engine will go to and stay at HIGH IDLE - until the engine has reached a certain temperature - which then allows the engine to fall to a LOWER IDLE - or normal RPM idle - for the up to engine operating temperature ( programmed ) and observed by engine coolant temperature sensor. I live in Alaska - a region of Alaska in which outside temperatures in winter can easily reach - minus 25, 35,45 deg. F ( below zero ) . I use the proper viscosity oil my vehicles call for - and all my vehicles are what is called - WINTERIZED - and plugged in to outdoor receptacle when outside air temperatures fall below 0 deg. F . This is a must for anyone who operates a vehicle in any state which experiences such extreme winter temperatures and doesn’t have a heated garage in which to park their vehicle.
That's what S&S says about motorcycle engines. The pistons, cylinders and heads all expand at different rates. They need time to snug up against each other.
My father and grandfather were engineers for Opel for their entire careers. They would start their vehicles and let them warm up for approximately a minute in cold weather and then drive them gently until they warmed up. They warm up much more quickly under load then idling.
I'm not a mechanic and don't know much about technical details regarding engines. My 2018 Crosstrek has always been inside my garage overnight but I've always wondered if I should be waiting for the blue cooling light to go out before driving. Typically I don't wait, but I just drive reasonably gently below highway speeds before the light goes out. So far I have had no problems. Thank you for clarifying what really happens, I feel better about my cold engine habits. Great explanation, thank you!
I have been seeing this come up a lot lately. It just never made sense to drive off with a cold engine. Then again I grew up driving cars that needed to be warmed up or they wouldn't even run right lol. I have an 01' Forester and where I live, with wind chill, the temp in the winter can easily be -20 F. I wouldn't dream of NOT warming it up. By far the best car I have ever had for winter driving. Great video.
@@Yohane350 I know wind chill is real. I ride motorcycles and go hunting lol. also with out wind chill it is 2 degrees F out so yeah its cold. (I mean this light hearted lol I know wind chill doesnt effect your car.)
@@collinmc90 I will say though, I don't know if this is a thing, but when the wind is strong enough and the intake (ie: the grille) is facing the wind, the car starts harder (cold knocking as well), revs higher and takes longer to warm up. The sitch has to align just right, but it has happened too many times to just be a coincidence: colder wind definitely seems to affect my Outback.
@@ChristianGiaconiBonaguro You know this makes a lot of sense actually. I mean we have air cooled engines right? wind speed has to effect the temperature of a warm engine otherwise they would all over heat? hmm So I guess it would make sense that if the air coming in was really really cold it would mess with detonation in the cylinder. just my guess. I mean people install cold air intakes to improve performance but if an engine isn't tuned for that maybe it hurts performance? again just my thoughts.
My 2002 VW had an explicit note in the manual to not idle and warm up. It mentioned it's economical for the catalytic converter and the engine to warm up as you drive the car. I let the Subaru sit idle for max 20 seconds before I gently drive of as recommended by Subaru.
question: I am no mechanical engineer here, but isn’t it also advantageous to let your engine warm up to also help warm up CVT transmissions? Would it be better for the CVT belt warmed up then cold? I understand it’s not gonna be Completely warmed up like the engine, but even if the transmission received some heat from the engine to help warm up the transmission belt inside, that’s also more advantageous, correct?
I think more modern cars have transmission heaters for startup now, but for ones without, it seems like this might help, but how are they really going to heat up short of having the engine move them?
The transmission coolers route through the radiator or in the case of my Forester the intercooler is warmed up by coolant . Yes it warms the transmission oil.
My Subaru provides pressure at idle the oil control rings control the amount of oil in the cyl. With every stroke. You cannot ot scrape all of the oil off as it is reapplied with each stroke. Also modern injection systems are far less likely to flood the cyl. Jesus this is bull.
@@edwardmyers8782 Using engine coolant to warm up the transmission has limited success in cold weather, as it may take many minutes to heat up the coolant first, and especially so with the latest engines which will actually stop all coolant flow entirely until the engine reaches a certain temperature. I think this is why transmissions have their own heaters now. They can use the engine coolant to remove excess heat from the transmission, but at startup they rely on their own heater to come up to normal operating temperature.
This is a loaded question IMHO, it truly depends on what your driving and where. If it’s 30° outside and you live in a low speed neighborhood where you have time to let the car move slowly then start it up let it idle for 30sec-90 seconds. Put it in gear and let it roll. Use very light throttle and the car will warm up much faster due to the increased load of the driven force. However if it’s -10° out and your house is next to a high speed or high demand road. I.e. a Highway and your vehicle is expected to perform at its highest then letting it warm up at least to a point where you can feel warm air coming out of your heater vents is best… most good engines have had thought put into what types of alloys are used in each component and how much clearance is provided between those components and what kinds of oil is employed to aid in a liquid bearing in those clearances between those all components. The true secret to it all is how good is your oil and how clean is your oil? The quality of oil is king and no I don’t mean how much you spent on the last oil change I mean how long ago and how much fuel has your engine used sense you changed that oil. Also how clean is the air coming in that engine? Can you wipe the intake pipe with a white towel and see any visible change due to dirt/dust? that’s the key to combustion engine life….. also have you ever started an engine where it’s so cold the temperature never comes up? Then what?😂 it happens
My rule of thumb, if I absolutely cannot let it warm up to the point where the blue light goes out, I'll give it a minute and a half or two minutes. If it's less than 10f out, more like two or three minutes. Or to the point where I can successfully deice the windshield, back window, and the front side windows, and they consistently stay defogged. But most of the time I wait for the light to go out. My pharmacy benefits plan thanks me later too (I have asthma and staying longer in cold temps causes me to have to use my inhaler more). I think you're right. Article seems like it's pushing the "green" initiative compared to what they've said years ago, "your car doesn't need to warm up" and found it doesn't work. So now they're trying this approach, which if it doesn't work, you'll likely see anti-idling laws and exec orders in the future.
I agree. When I drive Subaru I dont wait forever for that blue light. I will put it in D and let the vehicle roll on its own with no gas pedal since my neighborhood has a lot of signs to slow down anyway.
@@jeretso One of my mechanic friends say as long as you give it at least a minute and keep it under 3-4k rpm driving it afterwards, until it reaches operating temperature, it should not do extra damage. It's just for best defogger effectiveness and safety it's best to warm it up all the way which is why manufacturers typically recommend it.
Living in Texas and i always let the engine warm before driving. I purchased a 2023 subaru crosstrek because it was the last year they offered a manual shift and went straight to cvt. Watching your videos got me interestied in subaru
The argument for not warming up that I have always heard is that the fastest way to warm up your engine is to drive slowly. I’m not picking a side here but I have always noted that it takes a very long time for an engine to warm up by idling in the driveway, it does happen quicker when you drive right away.
I’m an old man and I understand both mechanical and electrical engineering. I always let my engine(s) warm up until I see sufficient old pressure (and temperature) on my cars with gauges or until the engine, like my ‘23 Outback, slows from fast idle or (cold engine) indicator lights are off, when so equipped. You don’t have to go crazy over all this, just use common sense, which this video demonstrates is best. Thanks for that.
Good video. I never noticed the blue lit symbol but that’s because I use the auto start to warm up my 2019 Legacy. In the winter I make sure the heat,defrost,and heated seats are on when I turn the car off so when I auto start it all runs for a safe,toasty car.
This is great information I have a 2022 Premium WRX, and it is my first high performance car, my WRX does not have the blue light temperature symbol. But I was told by Subaru it is very important from a cold start to warm the engine up I always wait at least 2 minutes before I move , but I live in Lexington SC and here it is 13f which is really unusual and now I wait till at least my oil temperature reads 100f before I move off . Plus after driving I don’t switch it off right away I wait at least one minute before turning it off
I've owned 2 different wrxs And a sti all modified and From New and never had any issues. I Just didn't drive them hard until they warmed Up.. I started them And idled for like a minute or so then drove normal.. never had any issues in the years owning them.
@@watamuppet24 Thanks for you reply I don’t even think about going into boost until at least my oil temperature is at 185f, I just have changed the wheels, added a rear diffuser, F1 vector rear light, etc just doing cosmetic changes, I have no intention on modifying my engine, I just put on a axle back Magna flow exhaust system
@@racheldempster6655 Nice 👍 Yeah I had a 2008 WRX hatch, a 2015 WRX And a 2018 sti 😅 they're are great And reliable if you find a good tuner 😃 here in Australia I researched And found a good place. I Only sold the sti cause I needed a bigger car so got a 4wd😎
The WRX has a real temp gauge on the cluster, where as other Subarus don't have that gauge, so they wired the blue light to indicate when the car is not in operating temperature.
I would like to point out that even with modern oils, the warmer the oil, the easier it is to go through the oil filter. Higher RPMs with colder oil can cause a greater amount of the oil to go through the filter bypass. With the oil pump operating correctly you should get oil to the engine pretty quickly, but that doesn't mean that it all goes through the filter media. Me, I want it to be filtered and not have to go through the bypass. Just another reason to let it warm up first. I do believe that MrSubaru 1318 is spot on. Great advice.
You idle at a red light, people idle waiting to pick up their partner at work, construction workers idle their cars on the site, 18 wheel tractor trailers idle for 6-8 hours in winter to get warmth, when they sleep in their cab
I drive a boxer diesel forester from 2012. I use a 240v coolant heater in the winter. Winters can get very harsh here (-40°C, equal to -40°F, yes really!) I let it idle for half a minute before driving off, and keep it under 2000 rpm until the blue light goes off. From there it's driving as usual. I also dump lubricating and carbon removing additives in the tank during the cold months.
I am definite believer of letting your car warm up, no matter the make or model. Honestly, I feel the people who said warming an engine is rough on it, received some type of compensation from the government, and is an attempt to start scaring people into buying an EV .
Been going back and forth with a friend of mine about this. I drive a 98 Subaru Forester and I can tell a distinct difference in the way my car drives when I don’t warm to when I do. I just feels like the parts aren’t moving as smoothly and actually feels like I have less horsepower when driving on a cold engine. Firm believer in warming up your car to less than 1,000 rpm before taking off.
Somebody should tell all the F1 teams about this. They'll never let a car out of the pit lane without everything being warmed up. Maybe this is the reason they've had so many engine penalties of the last several years!
I'm glad you brought up this topic because when we had carburetor's and manual chokes my father always said it's best to get in and drive it. I believe he was referring to the rich mixture caused by the lack of a good choke system. Plus all of the carbon build up and plug fouling. I know full well from an engine mechanic and a machinist view point that it is absolutely imperative to warm all of the mechanical parts because of the tolerances between the bearings and the crankshaft, rings to cylinder walls etc.. My Toyota Tacoma has the 3rz four cylinder engine and it makes some pretty sad noises at temperatures below 40 degrees F. I let it warm up for 5 to 10 minutes and it runs with absolutely no noise. I'm guessing it's piston slap probably in cylinder #4 which tends to run the hottest. At 176,000 miles it's bound to be loose. It doesn't leak, burns zero oil and the oil never turns black in between oil changes. I just baby it until it gets warmed up if i'm in a hurry.
It’s odd that you mention it has piston slap you think but at the same time you say it doesn’t burn oil. I feel like those are contradictory thoughts. As an a slapping piston, should scrape or scrub the oil off the cylinder wall based on the idea that the thermal expansion hasn’t actually happened to the piston itself. But yet if it was doing the Slap that should normally indicate oil getting past the oil ring. Now I could be wrong. What are your thoughts on that?
I had a neighbor who would put a brick on his accelerator and let his car rev at about 3000-3500 rpm for about 20 minutes each morning before leaving because he thought this was good for his engine. I think he took the "warming up your engine" as a good thing way too far. Strange how he always seemed to have car trouble.
Another point is that some cars have oil squirters to keep the piston skirts lubricated. Another thing is that it's good to let the battery charge a little before putting more of a load on it. That's one of the reasons why Alternators die when in extreme cold or extreme heat. I called out this article when I heard it too.
getting from high idle down is a good idea..but for example my mercedes van doesnt generate enough heat with its 4 liter engine to even remotely warm up the coolant to get the temp needle moving if one is not driving it in the winter temps. Engine sounds more like a cement mixer for the first 1 minute of starting and calms down after a little idling...would not even slightly think about driving when its that rough and cold.
@@nekoroms Your van has a pretty big system to warm up. My 17 year old son has a 2010 honda. This morning 14 degree F weather heard the "tap, tap, tap" valves for a second at start up. Scared him to death. I learned on a 1967 MGB GT from my dad in the 80s, manual choke. Let the engine warm up, advice has not changed. The most engine stress is in cold weather, fact.
Thanks so much for the very timely video. Been driving over half a century and have always let my vehicles warm up including my 2020 Crosstrek Limited. Been using synthetic oils since 1978. Even used gasohol in the late 70s with no issues. (not to get another discussion started). MrSubaru1387, all the best to you and family in 2023. I'm from SW Penna where we had between -5 and -10 degrees this past Friday night.
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Mechanical Engineer here. I always warm any cold engine at least 20-30 seconds before driving regardless of outdoor temperature to allow for good oil circulation and thermal expansion of the metal parts to happen so that design clearances are obtained prior to applying a load (driving). Modern oils aren't a major issue down to pretty cold temperatures, viscosity wise, but the amount of oil between bearing surfaces (as a designed system) is dependent on proper clearances which is highly dependent on the engine reaching design temperature. That is why you shouldn't "drive hard" with a cold engine. With proper lubrication, all loads are borne by the oil and not any metal to metal contact. Most wear occurs during startup in modern engines. Or more realistically, due to improper maintenance or operation.
Wow a whole 20-30 seconds, you sound like a soccer mom
As an engineer, you are aware that there is a vast difference between driving hard after a cold start and gently starting off and remaining gentle on the throttle until the operator can see some movement on the temp gauge or feel some heat from the vents. This is such nonsense. At this point the "debate" should be well settled, because it has been the subject of so much professional research and testing, many decades and many millions of dollars. It is only those who think they know better than all those technicians and their findings that continue "debating".
@@jthomas3773 sounds like you’ve been triggered & your annoyed by a professional providing good information. Or maybe your just an asshole.
I've personally seen a motor that was taken apart that was started and saw that it took the oil less than a second to completely flood the motor. Plus, based on my experience on starting my vehicle and driving off, regardless of the temperature, it has never resulted in any major problems in the last 8 years I've had my car. Back in the day, warming them up made sense with the carburetors, but now it's not necessary.
My 1990 Pontiac Sunbird's engine absolutely ran better after letting it idle two minutes (and switched from closed loop to open loop operation). Even the manufacturers know to control the startup procedure manually (through computer software programming) prior to allowing the sensor inputs to dictate how the engine's running. So I let mine idle even longer to warm up.
I don't do that for my 2002 Subaru, though. I've yet to determine exactly why it performs so much better, but I'm assuming (presently) that it has to do with the aluminum block and superior systems, etc.
I've driven in Canada for well nigh 50 years now. From a stone cold engine in the morning, I've always let the engine warm up a bit while I scrape the windows and brush off the snow. You need a bit of heat in the cooling system to prevent your windows fogging up. Also it certainly doesn't hurt to let the oil warm up a bit for better lubrication before you hit the road, modern viscosities not withstanding. I've put 295,000 km (180,000 miles) on my current vehicle without any issues.
Nah you're burning up all your oil
You can actually hear how helpful the warm up is when it’s -25 outside, plus as you said you can’t see shit when the inside of the windows freeze and the defrosters r still shooting cold air
@@philpyung4831 Most persons are not going jump into a car in -10deg C or colder and start driving, unless they are pressed for time (and that can be a hazard). Most Canadians are going to start the car, and while the car is warming up (engine & cabin), they clear the snow/ice from the windows or wait....Also as the poster indicated if we start to drive before the car actually warms up it becomes a hazard. The windows fog up and you cant see jack.....When I just moved to Canada I didn't know that and tried what you suggest...had to pull over and wait or risk hitting someone or something. Nah let that oil burn. 245,000+ km and counting.
I use to do the same routine when I lived in North Dakota when it was -25F in the morning.
I am in Québec . As you are aware I think Ms. Winter is harsher out here . I scrape the ice then get into the car and drive at around 20-40 kms it does not take long before the engine is warm and you can feel it then increase my speed never had any problems as such.
I follow the advice in my Subaru handbook and let it warm up until the blue temperature light goes out. The Manufacturer knows best. 😊👍
I made a big investment and had a petrol heater installed in my 2014 Forester XT. Living in Sweden, it is a nice feeling to have a warm engine and cabin before taking off when it's well below 0 degrees Fahrenheit :)
I've been arguing this my whole life, some people think I'm only letting the car warm up to heat the cab, some think I'm just wasting time and "it'll warm up faster if I drive". I had a girlfriend go on her phone before, and think she debunked me warming up my engine, because of the same nonsense like at the start of the video.
I take good care of my cars. I keep them clean, on time with oil changes, and I grew up waiting for engines to warm up. I'm not about to change that. I have never had engine trouble before. Everything I ever drove went close to or above 300 thousand miles. Being in the northeast it's usually that the car rots out around me with a strong engine still in it. No matter what though, it's *MY* car, so I do what I want. They don't pay for repairs, i do. They can beat on theirs however they want. If I don't ask for their advice it's because I don't want it.
I am in Canada, and I use the electric block heater to keep the block warm, saves fuel by the engine going off fast idle a lot sooner, and the cabin warms up faster as well.
YES! Why more people don't know about this is surprising. It warms the motor to around 35-40F above ambient.
Haha save gas.... burn hydro
I'm not a mechanic, nor an engineer. Just a girl who loves her Subaru. But I did grow up working on cars and I do understand a bit about engines. I live in CO and I have always let my cars warm up at least until my RPMs drop. To me it's just common sense. It seems like that is the car's way of signaling that it's reached operating temperature and is ready to go. Can't imagine we wouldn't have heard about this long ago if it was a legitimate issue. Thanks for another great video!
I think the purpose of that is to get the catalytic converter up to temperature so it can do its thing.
I do that too! I also live in Colorado and drive a Subaru ( I know driving a Subaru in Colorado is not rare at all lol)
My BRZ idles for a minute or two before the rpm drops, by then I know the car's good to go but I always give it a tad longer to be safe, I live in Arizona and I do this always not to mention
That's what I thought my old lady, her name is Heather too.
I’m the same way with my WRX! Always wait for the rpms to drop
Your channel has been an amazing repository that’s helped me fix up and maintain my 04 XT Forester. In the past 3 weeks I’ve fixed so many issues with my car and have gotten it back to running like new, all DIY. From CV axels to power steering, idle relearn and a bunch more. Thank you for the great step by step guides.
Great video on warming up your Subaru engine in the cold. As Robert explains around 14:40, the importance of warming up to warm idle is paramount. As the owner of two Foresters and working on countless other Subarus with CVT’s over the years. Warming up your engine to the point of warm base idle (closed loop) will also preserve your CVT. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at high idle eventually ruins the forward / reverse clutches in the CVT. After tearing apart a few CVT’s with worn out forward / reverse clutches and returning them to the owner upon completion of rebuild. I have the owner start and drive the car. In every instance, the owner starts the car and puts it into gear at high idle. It is at this point where I try to explain why the forward / reverse clutches on their CVT failed. Depending on whether you put your CVT equipped vehicle in gear at high RPM or low RPM can and will make the difference between your CVT lasting 50,000 miles or 500,000 miles. The worse is when you are in high idle, put it in reverse to let’s say, back out of a driveway. While still at high idle, you put it in drive. Those are two transmission engagements at high idle which is double bad. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at low idle could be the single most important thing you can do to extend the life of your CVT. As I’ve told my kids who also drive CVT equipped Subarus. Only put it into gear at high idle if you are being chased by zombies, werewolves or criminals.
So very true!
@@coreturkoane5570 This is true of manuals as well. I just bought a 23 crosstrek and it races 1800RPM in warmup. You work the clutch very differently when its idling that high. I took me a while to get used to it and I'm sure I put more wear and tear on the clutch in that time. Now if I engage a gear at that idle, I don't add any gas with the gas pedal at all. Doing so can easily cause you to get a slight burning smell. If I could turn off the high idle, I would. I don't like it at all.
@@mbeacom21 so you have to wait until it's warmed up to operating temperature then?
@@coreturkoane5570 No, I just don't use any gas. I let the high revs power the movement. Seems to work well enough.
@@mbeacom21 ok, yeah I wouldn't use the accelerator either.
I just found this video as we roll into winter in December 2023. I have always felt it made sense to let a gasoline engine warm up, especially in frigid weather. What great video with a great explanation.
I totally agree with you, warm it up, let fluids get warm and flowing properly and let the metals warm up to expand to normal tolerances
Exactly! That's why I start, drive slow and let it warm up much faster than sitting.
@@jake51515 yep, slow driving is literally warming up a car... But better. People act like sitting at idle does something different under the hood. Letting the oil pump circulate oil while driving slowly will get oil around the engine and up to temp faster than idling.
I am 71 years old. I have maintained a lifelong habit of letting my engine warm up for at least five minutes. I never start to drive while the engine is at high idle. I regularly get 300,000 to 500,000 miles (or more) out of a car. I have never paid for an engine overhaul.
What Cars and Manufactures are your favorite? I need some wisdom 🙏
I agree with your opinion completely. FYI my 1999 Subaru outback 30 anniversary currently has 1.19 million miles on it I attributed to two things. As we put most of the miles on it in Northern Vermont we always warmed our engine up number two I have always done regular maintenance on it and when one item goes I replaced the other one also such as a CV joint or shocks anything that comes in pairs or quads. The first thing we did when we bought our new Subaru was literally driving to a remote start installation service and installed a aftermarket remote start and I had them set the runtime at the longest interval which is about 15 minutes. On cold days we make sure to park it with the heat and all defrosters on and let it time out when we remote start it at 15 minutes. Sometimes we even run it through two cycles. The car has survived temperatures of -42 not wind chill in Northern Vermont. Now we live in Central Indiana but whenever the temperature goes below 32 we always use the remote start and have a nice warm running car to get into which I should add is also safe because it is fully de-iced. I enjoy your videos very much thank you. I am 71 years old and still enjoy working on our Subarus are more recent Subaru is a 2010 outback. Much lower quality than our 99 Subaru however with proper care and maintenance and of course remote start on cold weather we consider it our low mileage Subaru with only 256,000 mi on it :-)
I love my 2011 Outback Limited and it has 150,000 Its doing great I take very good care of my baby cypress (color) of Subaru Peace
Video or not true
Great story Philip, we have had Subarus for 20 years now, last three have been Outbacks, currantly driving a 08 2.5SE. My previous was a 2001 VDC H6, and just like yourself I noticed the quality issues, the plastic tailgate, the skittish feel in comparison when on rough tarmac sections, all sorts of little things that make the newer car feel cheaper in my eyes but only noticeable if you have owned an earlier model.
I have a set of 16 inch wheels from the VDC, may try those as prefer a softer ride, and the ability to drive up kerbs etc. the 17inch wheels look good, but not convinced yet.
If I could have found a low miler 2000-3 H6 I would have bought it in a heartbeat, I think as do others these were the best years build wise.
Can't complain about the gas milage for sure, but sure miss the smooth torque and overtaking power for sure of the H6, I suppose all that saved weight had to have a knock on effect, prefer the rear seat fold down system, hate the complicated sat nav unit, miss being unable to turn off VDC when in deep mud or snow.
Older cars get a rough time here in the UK as our Government love to spread rocksalt on the roads, so rust can be a killer, also careless owners and abuse can shorten cars lives if used hard for towing etc.
Mine is barely run in at 115,000 so hopefully apart from the usual Subaru niggles, will se me through, all the best and may all your gaskets be oiltight, and many more happy miles!
254,000 on my 2004 Subaru Outback and running till I get a newer Subie...
@@kennyrojas4014 Same here! Kenny 2 Kenny, this is my first subie and I'm already glad I made the choice. It's more practical than my Denali, cheaper to maintain, and has more ground clearance. I couldn't change my oil without lifting the GMC up in the air. I'm learning as I go.
I've always been a supporter of warming up the engine, and I always cite the same expansion/contraction reference you made when explaining this to other people. We have temperatures that drop to below -40 up here in Canada, so for small engine cars I usually, after 2-3 mins of running, suggest taking off slowly and maintaining an RPM at or below 2000 until the gauge starts to read. Otherwise, the car will never actually warm up at those temperatures.
Excellent video! And I agree entirely with your logic.
This seems to be the most common sense way of doing it. And it is EXACTLY how I warm up my new car as well
Thank You Mr. Subaru !! Excellent Accurate explanation for the Modern Subaru Blue Temp Light . 100% in agreement let warm up until the Blue light turns off.
I saw the exact "Verified" report a few days ago. It made me laugh out loud! The absolute ignorance of the statements from those so-called "technicians." I'm a lifelong mechanic/technician, engine builder and automotive machinist. And their excuses of why you don't warm your engine is the most ignorant statements I've ever heard!
well the engineering/engineers do bear this out, and fleets of gas vehicles acknowledge this, though of course practical demands are a factor too, ie the need for driver to be warm enough to operate vehicle safely!
So glad you saw this and had the same response as I did to it. I always warm my engines up before driving. Even after my engine is warm I still take it east to let the transmission and diff fluids warm up before I get on the highway and reach higher speeds. Oil ratings also dictate operating temperatures. Thicker oil is going to flow slower than thinner oil in the cold. So warming up the oil will help ensure that its doing its best to lubricate everything.
I live up in Canada and during the winter it's not uncommon to get -20C to -30C and when I warm up the car I set the parking brake and put the transmission in neutral (automatic) so the pump circulates allowing it to warm up. I will mostly do this around -15C and colder. I also let it run for 20 minutes once it get's colder than -18C. Also, the oldest car I own is a 2005 Honda CR-V I bought brand new and it now as 350,000KM on it and have never had any problems with the engine for letting it idle that long. I do all the normal servicing and still bring it to the dealer for trans flushes and diff service, oil changes I do myself when it warm out but I even bring it to the dealer to have them in the winter.
Great vid and info. I have a 2022 Mazda CX-9 and it also has the same blue temp light "feature" and the manual also states the same about letting the car warm up before driving. The dealership I purchased from stated that it's "okay" to drive while said light is on as long as you don't enable Sport Mode or accelerate hard until the light has turned off. Thanks again for the info 👍
Congratulations, someone who finally correctly says "end-quote" instead of "un-quote". And as always, great information.
Love when you showed the blue temp light. My light is green & there is a red light when it gets too hot. Imagine that. In 1962 that was standard in Chevy trucks. As the engine warms up the green light fades out. The main reason for that is to give the temperature time to come up enough to open the thermostat. The open thermostat let's the warmed coolant to circulate through the radiator. It's real crucial with my 261ci six cylinder. Yes I am in the middle of doing the timing belt & water pump kit on my 1997 Subaru legacy Outback 2.5l. That's how I found your channel.👍
Upon starting my Forester, I always wait until the high idle drops down to about 700 rpm before driving. It just feels right to do so. And yes I always wait for the blue light to go out.
That's how I roll. Just drive sensibly once the idle drops. Remember that cvt needs to warm up also.
I have a 2015 Forester XT 2.0 and I always wait for that little blue light to go out and idle to drop. I watch a YT video several years ago and the guy said there's a heat exchanger on the Forester that uses the coolant to warm up the CVT transmission fluid. I don't want to take any chances and cause my transmission to wear out prematurely. I already replaced it at 115k because of the front differential going bad and it's part of the transmission internals.....$8k
The light goes off at 140 deg
@@ihatesocialnetworkin I've owned two Foresters and the blue light on each would always go off at 122F.
I am with you with this. Runs better with lower rpms.
This has to be one of the most common-sense explanations I've heard. Yes, I warm up the car before driving you can feel the difference how the car responds from when its cold verses warmed up. You just reaffirmed what I've been doing when its very cold. I would think this would apply to all cars in cold climates.
I questioned my education in automotive technology when I read this article. Thank you for the video.
I'm a "first time watcher." I greatly appreciate that you paired together logic and correct information.....what a combo! 😂 I have avoided idling my car(s) to decrease excess emissions from the standpoint of the efficiencies of the catalytic converter. I have driven my Subaru Crosstrek with the little blue temperature light on and as you said, bundled up, using the heated seat, and trying not to breath (at least not on the windshield.) Your point about the "idling up" is well received. I don't prefer the way the car "feels" before it has reached the recommended operating temperature. And I'm guessing at that point my emissions are higher (I think it's a reasonable assumption.) While I would normally start the car and drive forward very slowly some distance, I will now allow it to idle a bit - and not feel guilty! I've had my 2021 Model Crosstrek a few months now. Prior to that I was driving a 2007 Corolla. And before that a 1993 Nissan Sentra with a manual transmission .I believe that companies such as Subaru are doing well to expand the sophistication and features on modern cars to make them perform better on many levels. Of course, these features have to be used the way they are designed to be used. I appreciate that you helped me increase my understanding.
That is just completely crazy and ridiculous. If that’s the case my dad‘s 85 c10 should’ve took a dirt nap a long time ago. In the winter time he would let it run 10 to 15 minutes before taking off. It has almost 400,000 miles on it, it has the 4.3 V6 in it and a four barrel carburetor.
@@petemitchell6788 I have been told that I have a gas tank for a brain and nos run’s in my veins and No all the truck I have rude in had working exhaust system because we had e check back then 😁😆
That’s an 1985 carb c10 so warming it 10 to 15 minutes will not damage it he is saying of newer vehicle which that c10 is 37 years old man!
Thank you Mr Subaru. I just bought my first Subaru and I love it. And now that I found you and all your great content I know more about how to maintain the car I own and love. I appreciate you and I’m grateful for your content. God bless.
I always let my vehicles warm up a little bit, especially in the winter living in MT. My Subaru started up even when we had -28°F temps not including wind chill! Love my 07 Outback!
Cars only feel ambient temperature, wind chill doesn't effect them.
Source? Highly doubt you are correct.
@@yoloparrot42
Wind chill is the effect of wind blowing the heat your body has generated away from your skin, exposing your skin to the ambient temperature. Since the car is not producing any heat when off, there is nothing to blow away.
Thank you Mr. Subaru for confirming my long held belief. I currently have a 2017 legacy, and just bought a 2018 Crosstrek. The legacy has a gauge, the Crosstrek does not. It has the blue light. I always let a cold engine warm up before going anywhere.
275,000 miles later, and 5 minutes winter warm-ups, nothing wrong with my engine yet!
Hey Icewatch, which Subaru model and year do you own?
One additional thing to consider is that warming up your engine does not warm up the transmission or the differential etc. So either way drive the car gently for a while and remember that lubricants take longer to warm up than coolant. In really cold weather it may take 30 to 60 minutes for lubricants to temperature stabilize so easy does it. My rule of thumb is to start the car before cleaning off the snow and ice and wait until idle speed gets below 1000 RPM before gently driving off.
little do people know, an engine that never turns off and idles vs one that cycles constantly ; the engine running forever would last longer since its not subjected to thermal stress/expansion
How does anything you just said comply with what does videos about? This is about warming up an engine not long-term idling.
yes, but 'last longer' meaning what exactly? In other words, the whole pt of this vid is about the debate in engineering auto ICE engines, re warming up causing damage , which idle-type warm ups do cause a bit of damage in some ICE gasoline engines. Your topic is different, and really has no practical application except when discussing the value of a used car. If a mechanic or experienced person can get some indication that a car had mostly highway miles and was not a daily driver, then that car is indeed a much better condition car, overall.
(bcuz heat cycles are what age everything)
Thanks for the kind reminder. I do warm up my engine in my new 2024 Crosstrek Wilderness. I want this car to last longer & be cared for.
I think oil temp is more important than coolant temp for the longevity of your engine. But I will always let the STi warm up before taking off and keep it under 4k rpm's until operating temp. How long is dependent on how cold. At least wait until I see the temp needle move and hit its first line, usually within 3-5 mins. (I'm in CO btw)
I keep my rpm’s within 2k rpm’s before operating temps. I live in California so I guess it’s not necessary but it gives me peace of mind.
Same.
Yep. I let mines warm up until the dash temp gets to half way then don’t go over 4k rpm’s for another 2/3 minutes. Especially with boosted cars I’ve always been told to let the car warm up. It’s the oil temp & expansion of the engine components that are the important thing.
@@anthonyparra9553 3 k is doable
I doubt idling damages the engine. I normally just easy on it until it's warm during the week. -10°f it idles until warm.
2003 Forester EJ 25. It gets very cold where I live in the winter. I have always warmed the engine pretty good before driving. Then go easy for a while to fully warm before applying pressure. 216,000 plus miles now, and zero head gasket issues etc. Still runs good. I did need to replace my fuel pump, as it got weak and that caused plugs to burn lean, and that fries them with no code thrown. Go long enough, and eventually you will get a misfire code when fuel delivery is the actual problem. Warm that puppy up!
Great point about driving immediately with a fogged up windshield! Safety first, no matter what is recommended! I think this is all about fuel economy standards and manufacturers and governmental agencies making sure no fuel is wasted while the car is warming up. Of course you should let your car warm up for a few minutes. The engine oil and coolant, the trans fluid, the differential fluids are all at ambient temperature when you first start the vehicle. It’s just common sense to let those fluids warm up a bit before driving. And for me, even after I start driving, I take it easy until the operating temps are near normal. Good video, thanks.
The differential doesn't warm up unless the car is moving - ditto the tires and brakes, etc.
@@charleshuffman6982 This is true, thanks for clarifying. I guess the exception would be vehicles like the Subaru, and the Toyota RAV4 that have the front differential built into the transaxle, these might get some slight warming of the fluid from the transmission and possibly the engine during warmup.
Ed - Agree 100%.
@@charleshuffman6982 I have a long driveway so sometimes after I've clear the windows I will drive back and forth so I'm technically not idling. I don't think we have any regulations about idling in the driveway where I live but I could be wrong.
I'm so glad I listen to myself and not the so-called "experts" in a news article online. Great video.
When it's super cold and I start my 4.7L Dodge truck, there is a horrible, fingernails-on-a-chalkboard screeching noise as the overhead cams run dry until the oil reaches them, and I'm using a full synthetic oil. I'm going to let it warm up awhile, no matter what the experts say.
I have a 2021 Subaru, my first automatic transmission in maybe 50 years. I ALWAYS warm the engine (all year round) till the little blue cold light goes out and the idle drops to 700 or 800. I refuse to drop it into gear while at high (cold) idle (1800 rpm in my car). Putting it into gear at 1800 rpm has to be an issue with the CVT in the long term. Ain't happening in my car. Needless to say I really make great use of the remote start, especially during the winter in NY.
Nice presentation.
Hi Mr Suburu, great channel, subbed 6 months and often check out your content, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You state sensible facts and logic, I totally agree with you. My wife drive a 2013 forester here in central Canada, the cold part lol, we always warm up the car, and will continue, NO matter what environmentals say...
The CVT on Subarus is meant to specifically run a certain weight oil and it's only at that weight after it warms up so I warm it up for my CVT more than the engine.
Older cars don't have heaters in the transmission so while letting it idle will warm the engine it won't warm up the tranmission. Most cars will be limited to second gear (or the cvt equivilent) when cold to help warm the transmission fluid faster.
Only way cvt warms is in drive and moving.
@@BitWalker Older cars have a heat exchanger in the radiator, that the transmission fluid flows into and back to the transmission.
@@robertkraft2358 My understanding is that the heat exchanger for the tran only exchanges to ambient air and therefore can only be used to cool the engine. In my expereince no amount of idle will warm a CVT transmission, I've left my car running for over an hour before when we had a power outage and I ran power to the house from an inverter. The engine temps were at operating but when I went to change parking spots the transmission was still slugish.
I have a 2013 XV Crosstrek. I live in NE Washington. In the winter, I generally let it warm up for anywhere between 1-3 minutes, or maybe closer to 5 minutes if the temp is 10 degrees or less. The amount of time I let it warm up depends on the ambient temp outside.
I have 2016 forester and live in Phoenix. I have never waited for the blue light to go out before driving. I’ve never done anything different on any vehicle I had before this one either. I just drive gently and easy for the first few miles. The rpm’s drop as soon as I shift into reverse or drive so I don’t get the difference between warming at high rpm idle or lower rpm gentle driving.
Very well explained! I read the exact same article and came to the same conclusion as you and others did. The article made 0 sense to me as I rationally thought “The oil will be circulating from the oil pump regardless of wether the engine is idling or the vehicle is being driven. Thank you for clarifying this and putting it to rest. Sadly, there are going to be people out there who will take this at face value and follow it. Those people are going to be the ones risking potential engine failure at some point. I also drive a Subaru and do let it warm up for several minutes before driving away. I live in Canada and believe me, on COLD winter days, I not only have the block heater plugged in but also start and warm up the engine before driving away. I’ve found in my experience two things: one - if I don’t do this, my transmission is sluggish etc; two - that blue engine temp icon takes roughly 2 - 4 minutes to go off indicating that the engine is sufficiently warmed up. To drive away to prematurely risks damage to the CVT and I’d rather not have to pay that bill to get that repaired/replaced!
Thanks again!!!
just, no! repeat after me: the engineer designers literally designed the car engine and other parts to warm up so quickly after u start engine that it's safest and easiest on the engine to start driving at your earliest convenience, ie, within that first minute or two. They designed the system to NOT be harmed (in fact opposite) from driving immediately after starting. This is a FACT and all the mfr's have data on it and it's in the design specs. I like facts. And i like buying used cars from ppl who follow the instructions of the mfr!
It probably boils down to emissions. It pollutes more when cold. However I need heat. The heat does not work unless the engine is warm. So it will set there and run until the heat is ready to go.
Oh My ? We live in Northern Nevada and it is cold --one day is is 11 or 12 in the morning and the next it is 25 to 28. We have a 2005 Froester with a automatic trans, we let it warm up in the mornings, we also have a 2018 Camaro with a manual trans, (if the weather is bad the Camaro stays home). I watch the trans temperature gauge (and engine oil and water temp also) My wife is looking at a much newer Subaru, Crosstrek.. In Carson City, (Dealer) Oh yes we are in our late 70's. Please keep up your good work (advice) !
Love this!!! I'm in MA, and always warm up my vehicles.
Happy Christmas from Jamaica. I live in tropical climate all year long and I do warm up my 2008 Impreza every morning until the light goes off before hitting the road.
Makes sense to warm up. I’ve notice in my 2018 Crosstrek gets about 90 km until it goes down 1 bar of gas in the summer but in the winter it’s about 70 km. I lose about 20 km in the winter due to warming up because on this cold days or nights I’ve sat in my car waiting 5 to 6 min for the blue light to go out. But I think it’s important especially for the cvt to be warm.
I appreciate your input. Both of my cars sit still till at least SAI has completed its cycle and the idle drops. I then begin driving gently. Especially the flat 6. My beater is all aluminum as well. I wait till at least 180 F before I break 3000 rpm. In the flat 6. The beater is a pooch. So no need to hammer on either of them till some slow building heat has occurred. Thanx for the information. I’ll sit a little longer. The temp I speak of, is oil temperature.
Thanks for making this. There are so many hobbyist channels about cars particularly subarus where the owners of the channel make claims like you don't have to wrm up the engine before driving, or engine break ins are a sham. We need more educated techs like yourself spreading true information that eont lead to premature failure
I always let it idle for a minute or two, and then drive slowly until the engine is fully warm to get the fluids moving around. I think we need to consider the fluids in the differential and transmission too. I've been doing this for years and have 250,000 on a V6 Malibu and 170,000 on a Grand Marquis. Both run like new, don't burn oil, and have never let me down.
2001 F150 with 241k on it. Same timing chain and heads have never been remove. Been warming it up for over 20 years and no problem. Motor is still strong as ever. Change the oil regularly and that is it. Still strong and pulls my 5000 pound boat with ease
2003 Subaru 200K miles. Never warm the engine EVER. I take it easy till the car is warmed up.
Change the oil every around 5k the damn thing burns oil like it's no ones business.
My dad has a Silverado with 240k miles. Never has been warmed up in its life. The damn thing has the original transmission, and engine. I cannot believe that thing is still kicking. Idk how often he replaces the oil.
This is all location based. Follow your manual. If they stay to warm it warm it if they don't it doesn't matter.
Same here. 2002 wrx 243000 miles. take it slow until at operating temp, and change oil every 3-5k. @@seemlesslies
The only thing I’ll say in my experience as a mechanic is that direct injection does strip some oil from the cylinder walls compared to port injection. But my truck has both so when it’s cold it only uses port injection. All you really need depending on temperature is a minute or 2 before driving. Everyone has different conditions, cars and needs. So your experience may differ
When it's really cold I warm up my vehicles the fluids are thicker than normal so you end up putting extra stress on your fluid pumps especially if you just start it up and drive off. The extra stress may not amount to anything but the thermo expansion of pistons, heads, and cylinder blocks can cause issues if one expands faster than the others
I'm glad they know pistons and cylinders are important to help your engine run
I've got a 22 Outback with 18,000 mi on it and live in Massachusetts and I'm not sure I've ever seen the blue light! In any case I do warm up the engine but I do it my way. I start the engine and basically drive immediately but very gently. I keep the rpms at 2000 or under for the first couple of miles. This means I will actually pull over to the side of the road if there are people behind me wanting to pass. I would never, never gun the engine immediately after starting on a cold day and am really glad I don't live right next to an interstate where I'd have to get up to speed immediately. I'm 70 years old and hike a lot but I don't hike quickly up steep hills at the beginning of my hike. I give my body a chance to warm up - my heart rate, lungs, joints, muscles, etc. I treat my car gently the same way!
Have a 17 Outback and don’t remember seeing that blue light they keep talking about.
@@ericripley9739 Blue thermometer icon on the dashboard
Having grown up in 50s and 60s in upstate NY, I remember seeing temperatures cold enough to freeze radiators when cars were driven without warming up, Modern antifreezes seem to have solved that issue but I still let my car warm up for all the other reasons discussed in this excellent video.
I am new to both an outback H6 and an engineer and You have correct logic and love your videos Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Keep up those videos!
Thank you! The frist time I read that article I called BS. An oil pump is linked to the enginne. It the engine is running, the pump is pumping.
Thank you for the information, (the whole oil pump not working at idle thing seemed kind of silly) but I always thought that the cold engine light was for the CVT as a reminder not to accelerate to harshly until the CVT internals are up to 140 deg. Additionally, when it is cold, I usually wait until the engine is warmed up. Once I am driving the blue light is still on, the RPM will be higher than I usually see it at. After the blue light is extinguished the engine RPM will normally drop off top what I consider a normal RPM range, this usually takes about three to five minutes depending how cold it is.
My 07 Outback XT has the blue light and if it's on, it prevents you from putting the car into S# mode, so yes, it's definitely to prevent the engine from being revved too high.
As usual, when people communicate in absolutes they are to be questioned.
What I do when it is cold is let the engine warm up until there is enough heat in the heater core to keep the windows clear enough to drive with proper visibility (by then the oil is definitely up to temperature) and then I drive.Waiting longer just burns gasoline and drains my wallet needlessly.
Idling while warm does no damage, the engine is designed to run that way as well as at highway rpms, but in a cold engine the first seconds during start-up can be hard on an engine in certain conditions - its unavoidable, the oil isn't instantly flowing everywhere it needs to be.
Further, most American's don't know cold conditions like most Canadians do. Here we have block heaters pretty much standard, we use them in cold and seriously cold weather so the oil stays thin enough to flow properly though the oil pump - this is the epitome of "letting your engine warm up" even before turning the key, because when it is minus 40°F/C you will certainly damage your engine if you don't let it gently warm up. You might not even be able to start your engine without using the block heater, and possibly battery heater, for hours before you try to start it.
The problem with an immediate high idle when your engine is at minus 40 is that you are almost sure to create hot spots in your engine. So, the use of high idle after starting in the cold is relative to how very cold it is - in most of the lower 48 an immediate high idle is just fine, but occasionally in certain regions when it gets truly cold it seems prudent to allow your engine to heat slowly at low idle even if it will cost a cup of gasoline to do so.
Nutshell - some of what I said there sounds contradictory, that is because there is no ONE answer that applies to ALL situations when you are starting your car. The human desire for absolute answers that are always one way in every situation is just plain ignorance. Also, I haven't tried to cover every aspect of starting an engine while it's cold, so don't bother calling me out for missing things - I know.
If newer cars with lots of plastic parts get those plastic parts get too hot too many times they'll fail eventually. You are totally correct about modern EFI engines, I was startled to hear that article you read, I must have been written by someone who knows little about internal combustion engines. Also driving away, gently, the engine will warm up faster then letting it idle for a long period of time. I have lived in Chicago, Colorado, Alaska and Michigan all my life and did controlled studies with each new car I've owned for the last 45 years. They all warmed up faster if you drove them, gently, than letting them idle for a long time.
A car will warm up faster if you drive it gently than idling. Gentle driving will take the engine up to, let say 2000rpm.
The engine warms up due to the amount of explosions in the combustion chambers and the friction of the components. These are both greatly increased if the engine is at 2000rpm.
The problem is, the oil in the engine is not warm enough to lubricate properly at 2000rpm under load.
@Harvey Smith second this. I installed an oil pressure gauge in my car, and the cold start reading is at over 100 psi. High oil pressure isn't always a good case when the oil isn't properly warmed up. Cus the oil isn't as free flow as it should be, all oil has an optimal operating temperature window. Too low or too high is bad for the engine. My best analogy is when the engine oil is too cold. It's like trying to run Mapple syrup through your metal bearings. Sometimes, those syrup don't have enough juice to get to the dedicated spot to lubricate the engine parts while underload.
@@VinRZ Spot on.
@@harveysmith100 People just forget that atleast here...there is nothing gentle about when you drive in the snowdrifts and clogged up winter roads when it has been snowing :D but anyway the article lacks any real info. you dont need to actually wait for 15 minutes to warm up the engine..but common sense says that 1 or 2 minutes of letting all things get going smoothly does nothing but good when you like clear the snow off the car in the meanwhile.
@@nekoroms I disagree, it is possible to drive gently in snow, infact it's best to drive gently in snow.
I've used the factory remote starter in my 2017 Forester every winter since I bought it new, 7ish years ago. I usually let it run 3-5 minutes, and have never encountered any issues. The car just turned 100K, and runs like new.
Turbo cars are required to be warmed up and are more fuel efficient after they reach operating temperature.
I grew up with a '57 chevy all the way to my 2018 Outback. I have always let my engine warm up before driving, especially living in northern Michigan. I completely agree with you. My son warms his 2023 Crosstrek until the rpms drop and the water temp light goes out.
To me it is logical (knowing how cars and engines work) to warm an engine to operating temperature.
I have been more intentional since my last oil change about letting my 14 crosstrek warmup even in the summer, but especially in the fall/winter for a few minutes until the lights off before driving and I think it has helped to keep my oil level consistent with out any noticeable consumption taking place.
U either have the oil issue or u don’t with that model. U obviously got a good one so did I. Sold my 14 Trek was so gutless and uncomfortable on highway trips. Definitely a City car. My 3.6 Outback is dreamy on long highway trips.
I totally agree with you. Especially we have subaru engines and that is what Subaru said in the manual. "Warm up the engine before driving off. I always warm up the cold engine before driving off both in winter or summer. Of course in summer, it takes less time to warm up. Thanks very much, Mr. Subaru.
Joseph Lau, Australia
I always let my Crosstrek warm up until it goes into closed loop (blue light off) for the reasons noted in the video, but also to avoid unnecessary wear/stress on the CVT by dropping it into gear when the cold idle is still high at 1,800 RPM.
Agreed 100%. Has to hurt dropping it into gear at 1800 rpm. I always wait till the idle drops to normal (700 or 800), which happens mere seconds after the blue light goes out.
It still has a torque converter, which is going to absorb any high idle "stress" from putting it into gear. Any extra wear you might be thinking about isn't enough to matter unless you plan on that transmission doing 1,000,000 miles. Probably not even then.
My dad has a Honda civic and we always wait for the blue light to go off before driving, I have a Chevy spark and I don't have a light but I always wait about 5 minutes before driving and we have no issues in doing this. I have always been a fan of waiting a while to allow for proper lubrication and allow some temp to get into things before placing the engine under load and after the idle period when I first take off I like to have 10 minutes of drive time before running hard, after that it's off to the races.
Hi from Canada. if i can see out the windows I'm ready to drive. That seems to work at any temp down to -40. of course at -40 the block heater is plugged in. with full synthetic i never used the block heater until about -20c
I live in Reno nv presently. The lows have been around 7 degrees even when the temps are at 32 degrees I use the remote start to warm up the engine compartment because the engine will be way much colder. When I get in my OBW I look at the temperature panel and the coolant temperature gauge. When the engine temperature is at 118 degrees then I drive off slowly and do a break check on the ice. Then I take off. I am an heavy equipment operator so I am familiar with the cold starts.
When I was ordering my 24 impreza rs there was accessories and features I was really considering for the car. For starters the engine block heater actually works in cold climates and helps start the car easier
Thanks for the notification. It has to be old-timers myth though. Another thing that I recently heard is that you should not turn off the engine (with turbo) right after turning down from the highway (driving at high speeds). To get gasoline or similar. You should keep engine running when parked for another minute.
As a trucker 😂Love the way many vehicles warm their engines on the Freeway early morning!
2011 outback 3.6r owner here. I use an obd scanner and can monitor the engine temp. The blue light goes off at 120F. The idle speed also drops well before the blue light goes off, which takes about 2 minutes even when it's only 40F outside. In this video you said " between 100-120F. I'm just curious then, if 100F is ok, then it is ok to drive the car before the blue light goes off?
I think it's a good idea to warm up your engine before driving, though I'm guilty of taking off sooner than I should, but where I live, I really can't go over 25 for about a mile, so I drive about 20 mph in second gear and the engine isn't running much above idle. The blue light usually goes off after about a half mile. It doesn't get very cold here in northern Arizona anyway. Flagstaff can get very cold, but the elevation isn't so high where I live.
Absolute GOLD / ACCURATE information - agree with every word you gave. Also - just as you mentioned - on modern fuel injected engines - the engineers have used ALL the electronic engine sensors which the ECU ( engine control unit ) also referred to as PCM ( power train control unit ) uses to be VERY ACCURATE / PRECISE for the air / fuel mixture to the engine - so on any cold engine startup - as you mentioned - the engine will go to and stay at HIGH IDLE - until the engine has reached a certain temperature - which then allows the engine to fall to a LOWER IDLE - or normal RPM idle - for the up to engine operating temperature ( programmed ) and observed by engine coolant temperature sensor. I live in Alaska - a region of Alaska in which outside temperatures in winter can easily reach - minus
25, 35,45 deg. F ( below zero ) . I use the proper viscosity oil my vehicles call for - and all my vehicles are what is called - WINTERIZED -
and plugged in to outdoor receptacle when outside air temperatures fall below 0 deg. F . This is a must for anyone who operates a vehicle in any state which experiences such extreme winter temperatures and doesn’t have a heated garage in which to park their vehicle.
I have always felt that the mixed metals in the modern engines having different coefficients of expansion was a legitimate reason for the warm up.
That's what S&S says about motorcycle engines. The pistons, cylinders and heads all expand at different rates. They need time to snug up against each other.
The Toyota 3L six-cylinder perfect example. pretty much any cast block with aluminum heads
Old school driver here. Warm up time gets longer as it gets colder; nothing excessive. Easy and gentle acceleration until I see temp gauge come up.
My father and grandfather were engineers for Opel for their entire careers.
They would start their vehicles and let them warm up for approximately a minute in cold weather and then drive them gently until they warmed up.
They warm up much more quickly under load then idling.
My Dad's '70 Kadett 1100 wouldn't turn the manual transmission over in neutral at idle until it warmed up a bit.
Remember those were old cars of 1960 not new cars
I'm not a mechanic and don't know much about technical details regarding engines. My 2018 Crosstrek has always been inside my garage overnight but I've always wondered if I should be waiting for the blue cooling light to go out before driving. Typically I don't wait, but I just drive reasonably gently below highway speeds before the light goes out. So far I have had no problems. Thank you for clarifying what really happens, I feel better about my cold engine habits. Great explanation, thank you!
I have been seeing this come up a lot lately. It just never made sense to drive off with a cold engine. Then again I grew up driving cars that needed to be warmed up or they wouldn't even run right lol. I have an 01' Forester and where I live, with wind chill, the temp in the winter can easily be -20 F. I wouldn't dream of NOT warming it up. By far the best car I have ever had for winter driving. Great video.
Wind chill is a human creation, but yeah.
I always wait 5 mins before driving off during the winter.
@@Yohane350 I know wind chill is real. I ride motorcycles and go hunting lol. also with out wind chill it is 2 degrees F out so yeah its cold. (I mean this light hearted lol I know wind chill doesnt effect your car.)
@@collinmc90 I will say though, I don't know if this is a thing, but when the wind is strong enough and the intake (ie: the grille) is facing the wind, the car starts harder (cold knocking as well), revs higher and takes longer to warm up.
The sitch has to align just right, but it has happened too many times to just be a coincidence: colder wind definitely seems to affect my Outback.
@@ChristianGiaconiBonaguro You know this makes a lot of sense actually. I mean we have air cooled engines right? wind speed has to effect the temperature of a warm engine otherwise they would all over heat? hmm So I guess it would make sense that if the air coming in was really really cold it would mess with detonation in the cylinder. just my guess. I mean people install cold air intakes to improve performance but if an engine isn't tuned for that maybe it hurts performance? again just my thoughts.
My 2002 VW had an explicit note in the manual to not idle and warm up. It mentioned it's economical for the catalytic converter and the engine to warm up as you drive the car. I let the Subaru sit idle for max 20 seconds before I gently drive of as recommended by Subaru.
question: I am no mechanical engineer here, but isn’t it also advantageous to let your engine warm up to also help warm up CVT transmissions? Would it be better for the CVT belt warmed up then cold? I understand it’s not gonna be Completely warmed up like the engine, but even if the transmission received some heat from the engine to help warm up the transmission belt inside, that’s also more advantageous, correct?
I think more modern cars have transmission heaters for startup now, but for ones without, it seems like this might help, but how are they really going to heat up short of having the engine move them?
The transmission coolers route through the radiator or in the case of my Forester the intercooler is warmed up by coolant . Yes it warms the transmission oil.
My Subaru provides pressure at idle the oil control rings control the amount of oil in the cyl. With every stroke. You cannot ot scrape all of the oil off as it is reapplied with each stroke. Also modern injection systems are far less likely to flood the cyl. Jesus this is bull.
@@edwardmyers8782 Using engine coolant to warm up the transmission has limited success in cold weather, as it may take many minutes to heat up the coolant first, and especially so with the latest engines which will actually stop all coolant flow entirely until the engine reaches a certain temperature. I think this is why transmissions have their own heaters now. They can use the engine coolant to remove excess heat from the transmission, but at startup they rely on their own heater to come up to normal operating temperature.
@@edwardmyers8782 well that's is for your turbocharged version. That's not the same for naturally aspirated ones, correct?
This is a loaded question IMHO, it truly depends on what your driving and where. If it’s 30° outside and you live in a low speed neighborhood where you have time to let the car move slowly then start it up let it idle for 30sec-90 seconds. Put it in gear and let it roll. Use very light throttle and the car will warm up much faster due to the increased load of the driven force. However if it’s -10° out and your house is next to a high speed or high demand road. I.e. a Highway and your vehicle is expected to perform at its highest then letting it warm up at least to a point where you can feel warm air coming out of your heater vents is best… most good engines have had thought put into what types of alloys are used in each component and how much clearance is provided between those components and what kinds of oil is employed to aid in a liquid bearing in those clearances between those all components. The true secret to it all is how good is your oil and how clean is your oil? The quality of oil is king and no I don’t mean how much you spent on the last oil change I mean how long ago and how much fuel has your engine used sense you changed that oil. Also how clean is the air coming in that engine? Can you wipe the intake pipe with a white towel and see any visible change due to dirt/dust? that’s the key to combustion engine life….. also have you ever started an engine where it’s so cold the temperature never comes up? Then what?😂 it happens
My rule of thumb, if I absolutely cannot let it warm up to the point where the blue light goes out, I'll give it a minute and a half or two minutes. If it's less than 10f out, more like two or three minutes. Or to the point where I can successfully deice the windshield, back window, and the front side windows, and they consistently stay defogged.
But most of the time I wait for the light to go out. My pharmacy benefits plan thanks me later too (I have asthma and staying longer in cold temps causes me to have to use my inhaler more).
I think you're right. Article seems like it's pushing the "green" initiative compared to what they've said years ago, "your car doesn't need to warm up" and found it doesn't work. So now they're trying this approach, which if it doesn't work, you'll likely see anti-idling laws and exec orders in the future.
I agree. When I drive Subaru I dont wait forever for that blue light. I will put it in D and let the vehicle roll on its own with no gas pedal since my neighborhood has a lot of signs to slow down anyway.
@@jeretso One of my mechanic friends say as long as you give it at least a minute and keep it under 3-4k rpm driving it afterwards, until it reaches operating temperature, it should not do extra damage. It's just for best defogger effectiveness and safety it's best to warm it up all the way which is why manufacturers typically recommend it.
Living in Texas and i always let the engine warm before driving. I purchased a 2023 subaru crosstrek because it was the last year they offered a manual shift and went straight to cvt. Watching your videos got me interestied in subaru
The argument for not warming up that I have always heard is that the fastest way to warm up your engine is to drive slowly. I’m not picking a side here but I have always noted that it takes a very long time for an engine to warm up by idling in the driveway, it does happen quicker when you drive right away.
I use remote start and know damn well it's for me and not the car, unless the temp is unusually cold, like getting below 0F cold.
I’m an old man and I understand both mechanical and electrical engineering.
I always let my engine(s) warm up until I see sufficient old pressure (and temperature) on my cars with gauges or until the engine, like my ‘23 Outback, slows from fast idle or (cold engine) indicator lights are off, when so equipped.
You don’t have to go crazy over all this, just use common sense, which this video demonstrates is best.
Thanks for that.
I have always warmed up my Subies to operating temperature before taking off into the cold.
Good video. I never noticed the blue lit symbol but that’s because I use the auto start to warm up my 2019 Legacy. In the winter I make sure the heat,defrost,and heated seats are on when I turn the car off so when I auto start it all runs for a safe,toasty car.
This is great information I have a 2022 Premium WRX, and it is my first high performance car, my WRX does not have the blue light temperature symbol. But I was told by Subaru it is very important from a cold start to warm the engine up I always wait at least 2 minutes before I move , but I live in Lexington SC and here it is 13f which is really unusual and now I wait till at least my oil temperature reads 100f before I move off . Plus after driving I don’t switch it off right away I wait at least one minute before turning it off
I've owned 2 different wrxs And a sti all modified and From New and never had any issues. I Just didn't drive them hard until they warmed Up.. I started them And idled for like a minute or so then drove normal.. never had any issues in the years owning them.
@@watamuppet24 Thanks for you reply I don’t even think about going into boost until at least my oil temperature is at 185f, I just have changed the wheels, added a rear diffuser, F1 vector rear light, etc just doing cosmetic changes, I have no intention on modifying my engine, I just put on a axle back Magna flow exhaust system
@@racheldempster6655 Nice 👍 Yeah I had a 2008 WRX hatch, a 2015 WRX And a 2018 sti 😅 they're are great And reliable if you find a good tuner 😃 here in Australia I researched And found a good place. I Only sold the sti cause I needed a bigger car so got a 4wd😎
The WRX has a real temp gauge on the cluster, where as other Subarus don't have that gauge, so they wired the blue light to indicate when the car is not in operating temperature.
@@roygillotti4615 Are you talking about the outside air temperature, because all my oil and coolant is displayed on my 11 inch touch screen
I would like to point out that even with modern oils, the warmer the oil, the easier it is to go through the oil filter. Higher RPMs with colder oil can cause a greater amount of the oil to go through the filter bypass. With the oil pump operating correctly you should get oil to the engine pretty quickly, but that doesn't mean that it all goes through the filter media. Me, I want it to be filtered and not have to go through the bypass. Just another reason to let it warm up first. I do believe that MrSubaru 1318 is spot on. Great advice.
You idle at a red light, people idle waiting to pick up their partner at work, construction workers idle their cars on the site, 18 wheel tractor trailers idle for 6-8 hours in winter to get warmth, when they sleep in their cab
exactly !!!!!!!!!!!
I drive a boxer diesel forester from 2012.
I use a 240v coolant heater in the winter. Winters can get very harsh here (-40°C, equal to -40°F, yes really!)
I let it idle for half a minute before driving off, and keep it under 2000 rpm until the blue light goes off. From there it's driving as usual.
I also dump lubricating and carbon removing additives in the tank during the cold months.
I am definite believer of letting your car warm up, no matter the make or model. Honestly, I feel the people who said warming an engine is rough on it, received some type of compensation from the government, and is an attempt to start scaring people into buying an EV .
hit the nail on the head. this is exactly why they are saying it
???
Wow, conspiracy nuts are everywhere nowadays. Why would Firestone try to scare you into getting an EV? Most of their business comes from ICE cars.
@@drk321 government compensation or threats of being shut down by government officials. Politicians don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
Been going back and forth with a friend of mine about this. I drive a 98 Subaru Forester and I can tell a distinct difference in the way my car drives when I don’t warm to when I do. I just feels like the parts aren’t moving as smoothly and actually feels like I have less horsepower when driving on a cold engine. Firm believer in warming up your car to less than 1,000 rpm before taking off.
Somebody should tell all the F1 teams about this. They'll never let a car out of the pit lane without everything being warmed up. Maybe this is the reason they've had so many engine penalties of the last several years!
I'm glad you brought up this topic because when we had carburetor's and manual chokes my father always said it's best to get in and drive it. I believe he was referring to the rich mixture caused by the lack of a good choke system. Plus all of the carbon build up and plug fouling. I know full well from an engine mechanic and a machinist view point that it is absolutely imperative to warm all of the mechanical parts because of the tolerances between the bearings and the crankshaft, rings to cylinder walls etc.. My Toyota Tacoma has the 3rz four cylinder engine and it makes some pretty sad noises at temperatures below 40 degrees F. I let it warm up for 5 to 10 minutes and it runs with absolutely no noise. I'm guessing it's piston slap probably in cylinder #4 which tends to run the hottest. At 176,000 miles it's bound to be loose. It doesn't leak, burns zero oil and the oil never turns black in between oil changes. I just baby it until it gets warmed up if i'm in a hurry.
It’s odd that you mention it has piston slap you think but at the same time you say it doesn’t burn oil. I feel like those are contradictory thoughts. As an a slapping piston, should scrape or scrub the oil off the cylinder wall based on the idea that the thermal expansion hasn’t actually happened to the piston itself. But yet if it was doing the Slap that should normally indicate oil getting past the oil ring. Now I could be wrong. What are your thoughts on that?
I had a neighbor who would put a brick on his accelerator and let his car rev at about 3000-3500 rpm for about 20 minutes each morning before leaving because he thought this was good for his engine. I think he took the "warming up your engine" as a good thing way too far. Strange how he always seemed to have car trouble.
How would you do that without it slamming to the floor? I don't know if I buy that
@@jake51515 I think he had a block that he put under the gas pedal so it didn't go down all the way.
that is disgusting pollution
Another point is that some cars have oil squirters to keep the piston skirts lubricated. Another thing is that it's good to let the battery charge a little before putting more of a load on it. That's one of the reasons why Alternators die when in extreme cold or extreme heat. I called out this article when I heard it too.
Always let a cold engine idle until the rpm drop or the temp gauge starts to move.
getting from high idle down is a good idea..but for example my mercedes van doesnt generate enough heat with its 4 liter engine to even remotely warm up the coolant to get the temp needle moving if one is not driving it in the winter temps. Engine sounds more like a cement mixer for the first 1 minute of starting and calms down after a little idling...would not even slightly think about driving when its that rough and cold.
@@nekoroms Your van has a pretty big system to warm up. My 17 year old son has a 2010 honda. This morning 14 degree F weather heard the "tap, tap, tap" valves for a second at start up. Scared him to death. I learned on a 1967 MGB GT from my dad in the 80s, manual choke. Let the engine warm up, advice has not changed. The most engine stress is in cold weather, fact.
Thanks so much for the very timely video. Been driving over half a century and have always let my vehicles warm up including my 2020 Crosstrek Limited. Been using synthetic oils since 1978. Even used gasohol in the late 70s with no issues. (not to get another discussion started). MrSubaru1387, all the best to you and family in 2023. I'm from SW Penna where we had between -5 and -10 degrees this past Friday night.