Been shooting bows for the last 30+ years and have always commanded the shot. Not hammering but commanding. Great topic, and wish you would upload more! Always loved your content!
I think there's a big difference between a "surprise shot" and a "controlled shot". Whether you pull through a thumb button, roll through a hinge, or shoot a wrist strap release like a rifle trigger you're in control through the entire shot process. You may not know the exact moment it's going to go off but you know "when" it's going to happen. To me a "surprise shot" makes it sound like the shot magically goes off without any input. But EVERY type of release needs some input to get it to off.
FINALLY a practical approach revealed. I though it was just me. If I'd heard seen this video sooner, I wouldn't have wasted over $1k on different releases and countless hours try to change. At 69 years old, the eyes don't see as good and can't hold steady at full draw as long so commanding the shot is best for me using you're exact points: very light trigger, enbrace the pin float, and focus on the follow through (don't peek at the target). Thank you!
@@larrytellman3490 Larry, I’m 74 years old and only draw 61-62 #’s. But I can hold very well on my 40 yard target for about 30 seconds tops. Actually make good shots ( thumb button release without punching) to 20 seconds or so. This is because I shoot nearly every single day. It may be on ly like 5 serious quality shots focusing on my shot break timing and execution or it may be 40 shots over a couple hours. I’ve learned to not worry about how many shots but the form and control at all my usual distances to 60. It’s about staying in shape for me. This is mandatory for older bodies,IMO
Thanks for helping an old finger shooter, who had to convert to a release, last year , after 47 years of letting go of the string with my fingers, this video makes a lot of sense .
Thank you for doing this. A surprise break is great if your pin is doing figure eights over the target and you have time to be surprised. BTW no one talks about “figure 8’s” either, just keep your figure 8’s over the target, surprise break or command shot over the target and you’ll hit it. Easy. Anyway, you’re onto something even bigger, address the following: Want to shoot better? Get good sleep, drink plenty of water, no coffee, no caffeine, no sugar, no energy drinks, no tobacco of any kind, no vaping, stretch, be physically fit, lift a little bit of weights, do some cardio, spend less time on your cell phone or computer to preserve your precious vision, try to shoot your bow once a day - - 2 dozen arrows, more if you can, have fun, don’t make it work. Do all of that before you think “my shot process.” Thanks for the video my dude, I completely agree. Command shots happen.
Well said. I've done this for years, and was told I'm doing it wrong. I messed around with many releases and was always more accurate with commanding the trigger.
100% agree! I think archery is a sport where its possible to be extremely accurate with both styles of shooting for multiple reasons. Mainly, the simple fact that we find pros at the highest levels of competition using both styles. And then there's other shooting sports that require you to develop the skills to carefully squeeze the trigger without punching it. As far as I know most shooting sports involving firearms require this skill. You can't use your back and shoulder muscles to get a better shot because those muscles are doing other jobs like aiming the firearm and managing recoil.
I always strive for a surprise release but the more aggressive I am in pushing and pulling, the less of a surprise it becomes. When I consistenly command the shot though I always end up developing a flinch which can get pretty bad.
I practice both techniques with thumb, hinge and wrist, to the point that it doesn't matter what one I use I'm comfortable with them all and for tge exact same scenarios you have described.
What you're saying is what I kind of figured out on my own because a suprise shot just didn't work for me, it was like trying to figure out a different language. I also had to go to a thumb button and set the barrel so that I set it off with the base of my thumb.
5 seconds in and I'm typing this. Couldn't be happier that you made this vid. The whole dying on the back tension surprise shot thing, where you are a complete failure to be laughed at if you command release to me is so arrogant. When half the celeb level target shooters are command shooters, how can hunters be told with a straight face that surprise release is the only way and how can the logic that surprise release is king hold up. You are dead right RE aiming. Too many people are told they have to surprise release, yet have no chance of effectively aiming past 4 seconds. If you are too novice to be able to get a good hold, learning to pull through at the same time can absolutely blow your groups, confidence, effectiveness and love for the sport.
Thank you for giving an honest assessment if your teaching experience. Everything you said is true 100% in my opinion. Simply put if your a hunter the command is your best friend and if your a target archer tension style is and can be more accurate on a target. Well said!
I came full circle. I move my thumb, slowly increasing pressure until it breaks. That’s how I shoot rifles, pistols and shotguns. For shooting fast, practice preloading and presetting the trigger press fast. Command/concious trigger operation becomes issue when you get problems and instead of tuning your finger, start making the trigger lighter.
You're going to have to coin the term.. command shot will be the new wave haha 😎 I always notice my most accurate shots don't only break faster.... but also seem like the arrow nearly zips a few fps faster because of extra the push/pull command!👌 Now if I could just figure out how to do it EVERY TIME!! haha
As someone who lives in a place with a lot of wind, I’ve never understood how a surprise shot is supposed to work. If you get a surprise release in a gust, it simply does not work. At least for me.
Agree 💯. My club is in a super windy, gusty place. There is no way “your car is gonna steer back to the middle of the road”, if you don’t command your shot, your car will run off the cliff
Thanks for the video.....in few words.....the best way to shoot is.....to be the most impassive....this is the key.....from my only two years of experience in archery
Great info. I’ve been command shooting for sometime now. At least I try to. Steady shot and stay in the shot focus on target and not the pin. That’s what I try to do. It works but can’t always do it. 🏹
Agree 100%. I think it's interesting that most of the guys who kill an elk every year on public land shoot an index release. They spend their time scouting and learning to HUNT. The they shoot their bow "good enough."
A good way to fire is with a release that has a long trigger stroke. You can ensure the continuous movement of the trigger for 5 seconds and at this time catch the moment of the best match of the pin with the target and make a command shot.
@@InsideOutPrecision A release with a long trigger stroke is needed. I have a release with an extended trigger for 2 fingers, I made it myself and when you press with two fingers it gives you better control over the trigger, you can press very slowly and for a long time. In short, this is a command during the movement of the trigger.
One thing I’ve noticed about the target style of surprise release when it’s on a hunting setup is that target archers utilize letoff a lot less than bow hunters. A lot of bow hunters don’t hold a bunch of weight at full draw and seem to have shots break off where they don’t want them to
I’ve shot a surprise shot for the last 4 years. I had never shot a Vegas 300 even shooting hundreds of rounds. 299 24x was my best game. I started playing around punching and haven’t shot anything but a 300 the last 3 weeks. My x count has been 26-28x. I actually have less anticipation than when I shoot a surprise shot. I do switch back to a hinge here and there but it’s not even close for me.
I practice like I hunt, command style. Surprise release is too inconsistent for me. Also, mostly use a hinge for everything. Haven't found a thumb release that i feel comfortable with. Great video and topic!
I’ve used a hinge the last few years. I’m wild with an index. All my bad habits come right back. The Stans Clicker for me has been awsome. At home I can work on my shot but still let it rip if I have a small window to kill an animal. For me it’s the best of both worlds.
One thing that’s very seldom discussed is the fact that to control any shot properly you need to be in shape for shooting your bow. New archers are the group that aren’t in shape and also probably have purchased a cheap trigger. Therefore, they get tired and just hammer it. I agree about the accuracy difference of hunting and scoring like an indoor competition. But, you still need to have some type of control. IMO, there is a major difference in punching versus a command. It can be in the unperceptable movement of the index finger or the thumb. The firing technique for however one does it takes thousands of good shots to get it down well enough to shoot accurately. It’s so individual.
Do freaking long time no see I haven't been shooting in forever and just pick the boat back up to the day and you know I was whipping strings even created a channel and it started doing pretty good man but hurt my left arm but we're back at it now baby let's go long time no see
I learned how to do a surprise break after watching elkshape but I never liked it. Maybe I have to get more experience but it gives me anxiety. It also scares the hell out of me even after blank bailing several shots in a row.
Hello, has your irrigation season ended? If possible, I would like to communicate with you about the cooperation of a smart irrigation controller next spring. Are you interested?
I tried for MONTHS to do the surprise shot thing, it never worked for me. I begin to lose front shoulder stability quick, I need to lock on target and command to get my most stable and accurate shot
Commanding the shot is perfectly fine SO LONG as your sub-conscious doesn't run a muck... and that is the most difficult part to master. It takes as much discipline as any other shot style.
I don't know if it's a stigma or if it's just you know if somebody starts punching that trigger bro they can really freak out when it comes time you know
Totally agree with this. I commanded my shot for 20 years with pretty decent accuracy. I tried to get on the surprise release bandwagon about a year ago, and my groups suffered badly. Recently went back to my old way of command shooting and my groups tightened right up. Commanding the shot just works better for me.
I think nick kappers command shoots with a hinge. For me command shooting just doesn't work. Bust still practicing command shooting good for windy 50 m outdoor.
Do yourselves a favour and watch Cam Haynes' latest vid where he gets a grizzly in Alaska. It's very windy and his bow is moving a fair bit. No way you could reliably take that shit without command
So glad to see someone I watch a lot not kissing Joel Turners ass. I can’t stand watching that dude and have no idea how people sit through his classes with him slapping arrows on their hat and talking smack. He’s a joke making a dollar off his son. Do what works for you, practice, and just enjoy the process of getting better.
I've been shooting a bow for 50 years always been a command shooter,it's about repeatability, trust your shot process,concentrate on every shot you make while you're practicing and make it muscle memory, stick with one way and master that way, every time I pick my bow up I know exactly what I need to do without thinking, remember it's all between the ears!
Wasn’t intended to be , just an opinion and I obviously am not anyone special so it’s a very unimportant one. I think there’s many ways to be successful in archery , when you have a guy come on the scene and say there’s only his way , I tend to be a little skeptical.
Command shooting for hunters is 100 percent effective, most people that practice surprise breaks on targets end up throwing their process out the window when they shoot at a live animal and most people don’t experience target panic when hunting only shooting at targets
When I “commanded” the shot early days- my groups were better than they are now…. Problem is my arrow flight was trash with field points. (I would loose arrows with blades on the front) Back tension helps my arrow flight but spreads my group. 🪨 🤷🏾♂️ 🪨
Couldn't agree more especially for hunting!
Been shooting bows for the last 30+ years and have always commanded the shot. Not hammering but commanding. Great topic, and wish you would upload more! Always loved your content!
I think there's a big difference between a "surprise shot" and a "controlled shot". Whether you pull through a thumb button, roll through a hinge, or shoot a wrist strap release like a rifle trigger you're in control through the entire shot process. You may not know the exact moment it's going to go off but you know "when" it's going to happen.
To me a "surprise shot" makes it sound like the shot magically goes off without any input. But EVERY type of release needs some input to get it to off.
FINALLY a practical approach revealed. I though it was just me. If I'd heard seen this video sooner, I wouldn't have wasted over $1k on different releases and countless hours try to change. At 69 years old, the eyes don't see as good and can't hold steady at full draw as long so commanding the shot is best for me using you're exact points: very light trigger, enbrace the pin float, and focus on the follow through (don't peek at the target). Thank you!
@@larrytellman3490 Larry, I’m 74 years old and only draw 61-62 #’s. But I can hold very well on my 40 yard target for about 30 seconds tops. Actually make good shots ( thumb button release without punching) to 20 seconds or so. This is because I shoot nearly every single day. It may be on ly like 5 serious quality shots focusing on my shot break timing and execution or it may be 40 shots over a couple hours. I’ve learned to not worry about how many shots but the form and control at all my usual distances to 60. It’s about staying in shape for me. This is mandatory for older bodies,IMO
Thanks for helping an old finger shooter, who had to convert to a release, last year , after 47 years of letting go of the string with my fingers, this video makes a lot of sense .
Thank you for doing this. A surprise break is great if your pin is doing figure eights over the target and you have time to be surprised.
BTW no one talks about “figure 8’s” either, just keep your figure 8’s over the target, surprise break or command shot over the target and you’ll hit it. Easy.
Anyway, you’re onto something even bigger, address the following:
Want to shoot better? Get good sleep, drink plenty of water, no coffee, no caffeine, no sugar, no energy drinks, no tobacco of any kind, no vaping, stretch, be physically fit, lift a little bit of weights, do some cardio, spend less time on your cell phone or computer to preserve your precious vision, try to shoot your bow once a day - - 2 dozen arrows, more if you can, have fun, don’t make it work.
Do all of that before you think “my shot process.”
Thanks for the video my dude, I completely agree.
Command shots happen.
“Sometimes it just doesn’t get better” 😂 You’re my boy blue!
Well said. I've done this for years, and was told I'm doing it wrong. I messed around with many releases and was always more accurate with commanding the trigger.
Somebody finally said it! Thanks, man!
agree totally,allways want to know EXACTLY WHEN my shot goes off and try to watch the arrow all the way to the target for the best results!
100% agree! I think archery is a sport where its possible to be extremely accurate with both styles of shooting for multiple reasons. Mainly, the simple fact that we find pros at the highest levels of competition using both styles. And then there's other shooting sports that require you to develop the skills to carefully squeeze the trigger without punching it. As far as I know most shooting sports involving firearms require this skill. You can't use your back and shoulder muscles to get a better shot because those muscles are doing other jobs like aiming the firearm and managing recoil.
I always strive for a surprise release but the more aggressive I am in pushing and pulling, the less of a surprise it becomes. When I consistenly command the shot though I always end up developing a flinch which can get pretty bad.
Great advice! I think a lot of bow hunters need to hear this!!
I practice both techniques with thumb, hinge and wrist, to the point that it doesn't matter what one I use I'm comfortable with them all and for tge exact same scenarios you have described.
What you're saying is what I kind of figured out on my own because a suprise shot just didn't work for me, it was like trying to figure out a different language. I also had to go to a thumb button and set the barrel so that I set it off with the base of my thumb.
5 seconds in and I'm typing this. Couldn't be happier that you made this vid. The whole dying on the back tension surprise shot thing, where you are a complete failure to be laughed at if you command release to me is so arrogant. When half the celeb level target shooters are command shooters, how can hunters be told with a straight face that surprise release is the only way and how can the logic that surprise release is king hold up. You are dead right RE aiming. Too many people are told they have to surprise release, yet have no chance of effectively aiming past 4 seconds. If you are too novice to be able to get a good hold, learning to pull through at the same time can absolutely blow your groups, confidence, effectiveness and love for the sport.
Gonna give this a go. Thanks for the introduction.
Thank you for giving an honest assessment if your teaching experience. Everything you said is true 100% in my opinion. Simply put if your a hunter the command is your best friend and if your a target archer tension style is and can be more accurate on a target. Well said!
Completely agree man!
I came full circle. I move my thumb, slowly increasing pressure until it breaks. That’s how I shoot rifles, pistols and shotguns. For shooting fast, practice preloading and presetting the trigger press fast. Command/concious trigger operation becomes issue when you get problems and instead of tuning your finger, start making the trigger lighter.
You're going to have to coin the term.. command shot will be the new wave haha 😎
I always notice my most accurate shots don't only break faster.... but also seem like the arrow nearly zips a few fps faster because of extra the push/pull command!👌 Now if I could just figure out how to do it EVERY TIME!! haha
As someone who lives in a place with a lot of wind, I’ve never understood how a surprise shot is supposed to work. If you get a surprise release in a gust, it simply does not work. At least for me.
Yeah never understood it, in a hunting situation it’s critical
This is why a lot of the 50m world archery shooters command shoot
Agree 💯. My club is in a super windy, gusty place. There is no way “your car is gonna steer back to the middle of the road”, if you don’t command your shot, your car will run off the cliff
Thanks for the video.....in few words.....the best way to shoot is.....to be the most impassive....this is the key.....from my only two years of experience in archery
Great info. I’ve been command shooting for sometime now. At least I try to. Steady shot and stay in the shot focus on target and not the pin. That’s what I try to do. It works but can’t always do it. 🏹
Great topic and great points
Agree 100%. I think it's interesting that most of the guys who kill an elk every year on public land shoot an index release. They spend their time scouting and learning to HUNT. The they shoot their bow "good enough."
Your back! Glad to see you!
YES! Agreed!
A good way to fire is with a release that has a long trigger stroke. You can ensure the continuous movement of the trigger for 5 seconds and at this time catch the moment of the best match of the pin with the target and make a command shot.
@@ВладимирПрименко-о5б if that’s what works for you! I personally hate travel in my trigger
@@InsideOutPrecision A release with a long trigger stroke is needed. I have a release with an extended trigger for 2 fingers, I made it myself and when you press with two fingers it gives you better control over the trigger, you can press very slowly and for a long time. In short, this is a command during the movement of the trigger.
One thing I’ve noticed about the target style of surprise release when it’s on a hunting setup is that target archers utilize letoff a lot less than bow hunters. A lot of bow hunters don’t hold a bunch of weight at full draw and seem to have shots break off where they don’t want them to
I’ve shot a surprise shot for the last 4 years. I had never shot a Vegas 300 even shooting hundreds of rounds. 299 24x was my best game. I started playing around punching and haven’t shot anything but a 300 the last 3 weeks. My x count has been 26-28x. I actually have less anticipation than when I shoot a surprise shot. I do switch back to a hinge here and there but it’s not even close for me.
I practice like I hunt, command style. Surprise release is too inconsistent for me. Also, mostly use a hinge for everything. Haven't found a thumb release that i feel comfortable with. Great video and topic!
I’ve used a hinge the last few years. I’m wild with an index. All my bad habits come right back. The Stans Clicker for me has been awsome. At home I can work on my shot but still let it rip if I have a small window to kill an animal. For me it’s the best of both worlds.
Great video....thanks for illustrating the obvious method that 99% of hunters use
One thing that’s very seldom discussed is the fact that to control any shot properly you need to be in shape for shooting your bow. New archers are the group that aren’t in shape and also probably have purchased a cheap trigger. Therefore, they get tired and just hammer it. I agree about the accuracy difference of hunting and scoring like an indoor competition. But, you still need to have some type of control. IMO, there is a major difference in punching versus a command. It can be in the unperceptable movement of the index finger or the thumb. The firing technique for however one does it takes thousands of good shots to get it down well enough to shoot accurately. It’s so individual.
Great thought process! Think in terms of rifles. NO back tension there and yet a surprise release by a squeeze?
You just bitch slapped a few thousand dollars out of Joel Turners purse. Good on you man😂
Thank you!
Do freaking long time no see I haven't been shooting in forever and just pick the boat back up to the day and you know I was whipping strings even created a channel and it started doing pretty good man but hurt my left arm but we're back at it now baby let's go long time no see
Preach! Amen!
You have to take all the info its a great start then fine what works for you. If its works great if not try something else.
I learned how to do a surprise break after watching elkshape but I never liked it. Maybe I have to get more experience but it gives me anxiety. It also scares the hell out of me even after blank bailing several shots in a row.
Hello, has your irrigation season ended? If possible, I would like to communicate with you about the cooperation of a smart irrigation controller next spring. Are you interested?
@@infoimolaza why are you trying to sell me irrigation systems on an archery channel? Buy 5k worth of merchandise and we’ll talk haha
I tried for MONTHS to do the surprise shot thing, it never worked for me. I begin to lose front shoulder stability quick, I need to lock on target and command to get my most stable and accurate shot
I would like to hear comments from T. Gillingham and K. Douglas because those two are famous by commanding shots.
Commanding the shot is perfectly fine SO LONG as your sub-conscious doesn't run a muck... and that is the most difficult part to master.
It takes as much discipline as any other shot style.
What is a good Youth Index release . Trying to get my 6 yr old nephews mini burner set up but can't find a release fit his wrist
I don't know if it's a stigma or if it's just you know if somebody starts punching that trigger bro they can really freak out when it comes time you know
Totally agree with this. I commanded my shot for 20 years with pretty decent accuracy. I tried to get on the surprise release bandwagon about a year ago, and my groups suffered badly. Recently went back to my old way of command shooting and my groups tightened right up. Commanding the shot just works better for me.
I think nick kappers command shoots with a hinge. For me command shooting just doesn't work. Bust still practicing command shooting good for windy 50 m outdoor.
Do yourselves a favour and watch Cam Haynes' latest vid where he gets a grizzly in Alaska. It's very windy and his bow is moving a fair bit. No way you could reliably take that shit without command
So glad to see someone I watch a lot not kissing Joel Turners ass. I can’t stand watching that dude and have no idea how people sit through his classes with him slapping arrows on their hat and talking smack. He’s a joke making a dollar off his son. Do what works for you, practice, and just enjoy the process of getting better.
You're exactly right!
I've been shooting a bow for 50 years always been a command shooter,it's about repeatability, trust your shot process,concentrate on every shot you make while you're practicing and make it muscle memory, stick with one way and master that way, every time I pick my bow up I know exactly what I need to do without thinking, remember it's all between the ears!
Pretty bold statement sir
Wasn’t intended to be , just an opinion and I obviously am not anyone special so it’s a very unimportant one. I think there’s many ways to be successful in archery , when you have a guy come on the scene and say there’s only his way , I tend to be a little skeptical.
Absolutely correct
Thanks! Finally, some info for us degenerates
You don't push and pull...
Command shooting for hunters is 100 percent effective, most people that practice surprise breaks on targets end up throwing their process out the window when they shoot at a live animal and most people don’t experience target panic when hunting only shooting at targets
When I “commanded” the shot early days- my groups were better than they are now….
Problem is my arrow flight was trash with field points. (I would loose arrows with blades on the front)
Back tension helps my arrow flight but spreads my group. 🪨 🤷🏾♂️ 🪨
How can it change your arrow flight? You mean torque? If your bow is tuned wouldn't broadheads go in the same spot?