How Will Greece React To Türkiye’s Bid for Special EU Recognition of Doner?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- It's known by several names, from gyro to shawarma. Doner, which traces its origins back to the Ottoman era, is one of the most popular street foods in the world. And while it's prepared in different ways in different countries, for Türkiye, its traditional dish needs to live up to certain standards to be considered an authentic doner. That's why it's applied to protect it under an EU law, as the nation also wants to set the record straight when it comes to doner's origin.
Strait Talk, hosted by Ayse Suberker, is TRT World’s programme that features in-depth analysis of Türkiye’s role in the world.
Guest:
Pierre Raffard
Researcher at ILERI
Doner is definitely Turkish....
yes, the Greeks waited for the mongols who brought it over in the 12th century AD, ok khan.
We think... Nothing is Turkish in this world
@@vasiliosthomas4883 Greek!!!!! Who are they?
❤@@famweber8893
@@khannasrul6404 your fathers
As a Greek, i never heard a Greek claiming doner is Greek, gyros and doner are cooked the same way (and mean the same thing), but gyros is pork or chicken pieces of meat, when doner is minced lamb and/or beef and also there are differences in the herbs and spices used'. Someone can cook lamb with potatoes in the oven or chicken with potatoes in the oven, but it's not the same dish, isn't it? About the Turkish names for some dishes, i find it quite normal, because in Ottoman empire the official language was Ottoman Turkish and most of the people had to speak it, no matter their ethnicity, also something Ottoman doesn't mean always Turkish because the empire was inhabited by dozens of different nationalities (see how many countries created after the fall of the empire) , unless someone believes, that all these people before the Ottomans arrive, were eating stones (people like the Persians, the Arabs, the Levantines, the Armenians, the Greeks and the rest of the Balcans). My friendly regards to the neighbors!!!
Most historians agree that Turks , a nomadic people, didnt have a sophisticated cuisine. To have a sophisticated cuisine you need to have a sophisticated agriculture. Turks knew nothing about organized complex agriculture.
Thy learned everything after moving to Anatolia. This is a historical fact that nobody can dispute.
Then it's obvious you don't know your history!!
@history_repeats8201 you are absolutely right but not only that. We have documented recipes before the Nomadic Turkish Mongolian tribes arrived in the aerial from the Byzantine period from the Roman piriod and from the Greek ancient world!! So one of the documented recipes is doner!!
@@history_repeats8201proto-turkic is full of agricultural words and phrases. What you say isn't true, it's your ASSUMPTIONS, not reality. Turks weren't always nomadic either. Doner is about meat, not vegetables, potato
Souvlaki isn't doner or gyros, dvmbass. Doner is vertical rotisserie which only came to existence in 19th century in the Ottomans. What you talk about is souvlaki which is also known as kebab in the middle east, or as shashlik in Turkic and Slavic countries.
To claim that the Greeks did not have Gyro prior to the advent of the Ottomans is utter nonsense. Mycenaeans used to prepare souvlaki(skewered meat) in ceramic trays in ancient Greece.
Gyros and souvlaki is different though
Turkish cuisine be like: Ayup this recipe was first recorded in the 1800s when Sir Michael Humberton the 5th of England visited the Sultans Palace and recorded this Traditional Turkish Dish that was made only for the Sultan and had never ever been created ever before despite it being suspiciously similar to another Persian/Greek/Arab/Ethiopian dish
It is better to stay quite when you don't know much about something. The royal kitchen of Ottomans employed between 1500 to 2000 people. They served hundreds of dishes, desserts, and sherbets every day. There were all sorts of chefs, cooks, butchers, bakers, sherbet makers, baklava masters... We have so much detail about the cuisine, because they kept daily logs. Day by day they you can find exactly what was purchased, cooked and served at the Ottoman palace. When Ottomans appointed high level military and civil bureaucrats to different provinces in the empire, they also allowed those bureaucrats to take some cooks and masters along with them. It is these cooks and masters from the royal cuisine that spread many of the dishes to different regions in the empire. Why do you think on a very large area the same dishes have exactly the same Turkish names such as dolma, sarma, sucuk, pastirma, kavurma, kapama, sutlac, pekmez...?
Some claims about Ottoman dishes by Greeks, Arabs, or other ethnic groups make no sense at all. Why? Because, some dishes rely on vegetables and ingredients such as tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, tomato paste, pepper paste, etc, which didn't exist in the region until Americas were discovered. So, any dish that use those ingredients didn't exist before Ottomans.
Moreover, desserts like baklava, kadayif, and tulumba were not available to masses because sugar was extremely scarce and very expensive. Only in late 19th cc sugar was started to be produced in large amounts thanks to mass production, and general public became familiar with such desserts. For example, as early as 15th century, these desserts were prepared at the royal kitchen and served to Janissaries before their salaries were paid. This was a gesture of the sultan to acknowledge the value of their service and loyalty. Also, Ottomans had strong control over production and trade of agricultural products in its territory.
So, if anyone wants to make a claim about Ottoman dishes they have to provide written historical evidence to prove otherwise.
Greeks never claimed döner as their own. Döner and gyros might have the same meaning but they are different. The greatest difference is the meat. Döner is usually lamb while gyros is usually pork. Plus Turks use kebab which is usually minced meat on a stick while Greeks use souvlaki which literally means small stick (souvla) and consists of chunks. We eat kebab in Greece and know it’s Turkish eve n though culinary traditions inside the Ottoman Empire were not ethnically separated and no one really knows which food was prepared and consumed mostly by which ethnicity as there was no definition of ethinicity at these times.
Türks dont use Pork my Greek colleage sold gyros alot and never used minced meat or beef but now Greeks try to say döner is theirs its new claim
@@omerdama1713 Literally no Greek claims that döner (which uses lamb) is Greek. Get over it.
@@stelios5314 what about cacik and baklava you guys steal it the name doesnt change much. 😄
@@omerdama1713 When you grow up you will learn that Ottoman Empire was multicultural. It wasnt Turkish-only. So these dishes are also part of Greek cuisine as well as Turkish. Did Greek people eat and made them? Yes. So they are a part of our culture as well. As long as we dont claim they are exclusively Greek in origin, but we know they are Ottoman we have the absolute right to consider them as part of our cuisine. I really dont know what you struggle to understand here. No "stealing" happened.
Obvious it’s origin trace to Ottoman Empire, was royalty food before MCdonald trash came out
It's origin traces back to Byzantine empire that the Ottomans stole and renamed like 90% of the Turkish food!! Nomadic Tribes from Mongolian steppes didn't have those recipes!! Historical facts
Source for this claim please@@williamskalaios6444
@@williamskalaios6444 you guys are sick
@WhatsNextt No!! You guys are absolutely sick!!
We have documented recipes hundreds of years before you arrive in the aerial and one of them is doner!! Again Nomadic Tribes had simple Nomadic food !! Learn your boi
Never as Egyptian it's ottoman @@williamskalaios6444
Turkiye has all the reason and right to protect the traditional doner. Look what happened to doner in Germany with all those fillers, sauces, and cheap vegetables? In doner, meat should be the star. A small amount of onion is the only thing doner needs. You can also add a little bit of green peppers and tomatoes (when they are in season). Many doner lovers in Turkiye think that if you are adding sauces, fries and other filles to doner (or any kebabs as a matter of fact) then you are trying to hide the defects in the meat and covering it up with the extras.
Also, in Europe, there is a lot of ground beef in doner. Due to mass production and oxidization, the meat usually looks brown before cooking it. The meat should look shiny red and fresh.
Döner is Turkish, Gyros is Greek. They both make a yummy peace in the stomach. ☮️🇹🇷🇬🇷☮️
I have tried the Greek and Turkish. Greek is much better.
Döner has chicken and fish varieties as well. Döner has many other kebab dishes. Döner has its own universe basically!
Im Aussie so we have no cuisine of our own but having had the chance and from trying the two i must admit i like the Greek one more
If you go and try in Turkey your opinion would be differ
The meat raised in Türkiye is so juicy and flavourful Das Meat 🤤
What is Turkiye? You mean Turkey 🦃🦃
That is because it is full of hormones. Do a Google search on how much produce from Turkey going to EU is rejected every year due to dangerous substances. all that food goes back on the Turkish markets.
It's not that great lol
Turkish food is amazing indeed
Gyros is actually a new word. Greeks also called it doner until the 1970s.
After the Turkish military operation in Cyprus in 1974, Greeks changed many Turkish names. Doner has become gyros, Turkish coffee has become Greek coffee, and Turkish schools in Western Thrace were named Greek-Muslim schools.
Food, music etc. didn’t/don’t know ethnic borders, they rather influence each other, and people weren’t busy claiming things for only themselves.
Gyros is made from pork nothing to do with Doner
so many dilusions , you live in your own world m8 , the "turkish" coffee u claim is urs is arabic ... try to steal less
Untill 1970's it is called doner, not gyro in Greece. Gyro means döner anyways. It means, " the thing that turns"
The name of product its Turkish like yogurt, doner, dolma, sarma, cacik, borek, corek so on....
And a lot of Greek and balkan surnames have turkish roots of surnames (more of them the job they did) due to ottoman empire that means we are all turkish
Απ' ότι φαίνεται είσαι μπολιασμενος με την τουρκική παιδεία και κάπου το χάνεις.Η τουρκική γλώσσα τι είναι για πες μας.Αν δεν ξέρεις θα σου πω εγώ.Ιραν Ιράκ Αίγυπτος Αρμενία Ισραήλ Ελλάδα Ουγγαρία και άλλα για αυτό σουτττττττ
Greeks do it Better though 😮🎉
@@kossllan6144
Yes I agree the Greek brothers do better things than Turks such as swimming from Turkish coast to Greece in 1922 to save themselves but not much of them survived poor guys 😂😂😂😂
@@Willpery your lira will be $ 1 to ? 40 liras & goin? With couple Greek Air Force planes we can make you l Turkish BBQ..
Right Now
Keep your barbaric mentality .. Best yet to come ai sihtir
In Greece we do not consume doner. We have gyros and souvlaki which are made from pork or chicken. We don't care about doner, because we don't eat it. Doner is available in very few restaurants in Greece. We eat kebab. Nobody says that kebab is a greek invention. It is an Arabic one.
I am greek and I don’t care. Should we go and protect the number π ?
I mean pita gyros and Döner is not the same thing.
Doner is Turkish, gyros means doner, shawarma comes from a turkish word cevirme which means turning, rotating...
I DON'T LIKE DONER, I LIKE SHAWARMA 😋 LEBANESE OR PALESTINIAN
As a Turk, I think Greeks also have the right to own doner kebabs. Because we are mixed with them and our cultures are largely similar. However, claiming that Turks do not produce food because they are nomads is a complete example of ignorance. Friends, not all Turks are nomads. Please learn this now. One group was migrating, other groups were settling. In other words, in Turkish cuisine, just as there were benefits of being a nomad, there were also benefits of living a settled life. The origin of yoghurt stems from the fact that the Turks were very good at animal husbandry, and there is evidence in Chinese sources that the Turks have been making it since Central Asia. In addition, it is a very malicious statement to say that Oghuz Turks have lived in these lands for 1000 years and have not produced anything in these lands for 1000 years. I say again, we share a lot of culture with the Greeks and they can embrace all Turkish dishes, these dishes are their food too. It is enough for them to accept that many dishes in the common kitchen come from the Turks.
How will explain to them that gyros is not doner,ITS MADE FROM PORK...maybe the mexicans can come now and blame us for stealing their tacos
Kokoretsi is 100% greek ... nobody knows what this is in turkey before 1920
Most "Turkish" foods originated from the Byzantine era and even before that
It’s Macedonian.
@@Arma66634 Yeah that means Greek
@@greoko even Byzantines didn't know this 🤣
Kokoretsi and kokoreç are NOT the same thing
the thing they eat in germany is not doner, its a weird sandwich with lots of stuff in it.
This is very obvious reason for casus belli.
Doner is not Greek and most of Greeks do not like it either. Never heard any of us says "it's Greek"
Gyro ,doner,swarma are all different
ah … a food fight …
Mexico is going to start claiming döner because they will say they invented Tacos al Pastor.
Im mesmerized by how the news channels always manage to find a expert to the wierdest subjects lol
Greek kebab restaurants aren't up to scratch. Weakly seasoned meat, no dressing on the salad. Pork doesn't work as well as lamb on BBQ since it's a dry meat
Wtf are you yapping about
Cause what you are saying isn't true
Plus greek kebab doesn't exist
It's gyro
MUSLIM TURK SPOTTED
This dude has never tried kontosouvli pork in Greece. Absolutely divine
Greeks agree that doner is Turkish. Stop trying to cause controversy with Greece.
Greece being in eu for decades had shown its oportunity to impatronate of many things like cheese called (feta) yogurt ect , they call the turkish coffe heleniko coffe
Greek coffee is older than turkish coffee, especially since turks are tea lovers
@@comingafteryou5352 you are so stupid its funny. Coffee came to Europe from Yemen and Ethiopia through Turkey. Turkish population only started drinking tea in the 1930s. Go read some history and then comment
In greece called suflaki
The equivalent of Döner on Greece is Gyros. Souvlaki is something else.
It’s only important to eat it!
Doner is Turkish. It's basically Kebab. You cannot steal this like ya'll stole Yogurt😒
Specifically oner itself is not Greek, even though there was definitely meet spinning in fire in ancient years according to many resources. However, it's surely not Turkish. Turkey doesn't doesn't any name recognition of products since it's a mixture of different nations and cultures.
Can you guys just get along each other,name it "Greek Doner" and "Turkish Doner" look we Indonesian have similiar situation and already made peace over Rendang beef with our neighbor Malaysia,all good there will be a lot of variant,everybody happy.
No one is arguing, the media just trying to make controversy as usual.
Im greek, döner is turkish and no greek disagrees.
Who said Döner is Greek? We have Gyros. skewers were used in ancient Greece and as a fact Turkish dishes are strong influenced by arabic, greek, Eastern roman and Russians cuisine😊
Kebab(yes in Europe written wrongly with a b at the end) and Döner in Turkey has nothing to do with each other. It’s a complete different food. That’s because the first Turks who have started their businesses in Western Europe had no idea about the secrets of the dish. They were no cooks they didn’t know the recipe. You can compare it with Italian pizza and the US pizza. I’m not even talking about the Greek version, it’s lowest quality of all as they use pork, the meat of the poor. It’s not comparable at all.
Pork or not Greek gyro is great. Its probably the lower quality in terms of nutrients, but its definitely delicious. Greeks do it either with Pork or chicken.
We don't really care about doner as greeks, we have gyros. Although it is from turkey's origin, we have changed it a lot. It is not even the same meat, herbs and spices. We use pork, Turkey's prople are muslim they dont even eat it, or chicken. They use beef or lamb. We serve it completely differently too.
people know doner is turkish is not cacik so you can say caciki so what doner is gonna be donerki 🤣🤣 indaksi 🤣🤣
We think... Nothing is Turkish in this world
2 different dishes, no issue
turks were nomad any influence they got was either by the Greeks or by Persia
Primarily Romans(Byzantines)
Learned from the Chinese, who love BakKutTeh cooked with pork which has been the most popular dish in Singapore Malaysia and Indonesia, even Taiwan,outside of China. Does China or Malaysia complain about others cooking them in Beef or Chicken especially in these Muslim countries. No, absolutely. Instead of being threatened or defensive, or feeling hegemonic and start condemning or imposing it's standards on others, the varieties and adaptions and modification in BKT to suit the locales are looked upon favourably and indeed encouraged.
BakKutTeh is more peppery in Singapore, more sweet in Taiwan, more likely to be chicken soup in more rural parts of Malaysia and Indonesia, nobody cares except a handful of religious nutjobs, who are lampooned as being stone aged or imbecile.
Take a chill pill. If you drink Champagne, it is nothing more than another more fanciful and pricey bubbly from a certain part of France. Which most can't differentiate in any sensible blind tests, even the most devoted Champagne connoisseurs. Japanese Sushi lovers don't complain about yanks copying California Handrolls, or Chinese complain about Kimchee being slightly different from the version in China. No again.
No fair-minded country would impose 100% import tariff on EV unless your Tesla is trailing behind in design and technology, thus needing protectionist measures.
But instead of setting up barriers, China is so confident in itself that it encourages Tesla to set up a few bigger and more super factories to compete with BYD and Xpeng in China. Different levels of psychology are at play here obviously. One ascends while the other does not. I think Turkieye is ascending so stop being bloody minded unless it's citizens think it is not.
Wrong it's illegal to sell sparkling wine not manufactured in France as champagne
Its human and market imposition. It's like insisting that the tea from Darjeeling and Ceylon as English tea, and charging 30 times the price. Or labelling short grain Arborio rice as Risotto and charging 20 times the price paid at its source in America, China and India.
Not coming from china. When they did in otooman period , they did not know much about china
Totally weird, foods of origin should not be a cumulative product. How you slice the meat? give me a break...
Greek kebab🤦♂️😂😂🤣🤣 but why they use kebab? An Turkish word🤣🤣
You aren't very intelligent
No one calls it greek kebab
Plus doner isn't turkish
Nobody uses the word Kebap in Greece ...
Why do you say you have rights in the Aegean sea? Aegean is a Greek word!!!
Lol it's an arabic word.
@@androume arap🤡 say me what is the meaning then“
🤷
Gyros is The Original
GREEKS
Ο Βελόπουλος ,τι έχει να πει για αυτό ;;😂😂😂
Slow News day?
Other countries are making AI technology and other countries are still stuck in rubbish topics.
Döner and Gyros aren't the same. Gyros is better 😂
Ασε ρε Μογγολία οταν εσείς μάθατε τη ειναι κρέας ..εμεις είχαμε χοληστερίνη 😂😂😂...
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
you are one google search away from the truth but since you are greek I dont expect you to move your finger and search for it. Your nation is so lazy, that only has energy to steal other cultures. Get some originality boy
no way turks cry over a food😂
Turks à like the Butchers Hagging Lamb without HEAD hahaha 😂
greeks will asume they are real turk 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
donner is othoman not turkish , in that way of thinking any dish from greece bulgaria egypt armenia georgia and more that got into the othoman cuisine is turkish which is not , stop turks from stealing
you are greek your best skill is stealing son
There are many paintings from ancient Greek amphorae where are depicted nowdays familiar food practicings among of them is that particular one.
Turks via ottoman times which is a more recect historical event they ve adopted all these recipes from ionian greeks , they baptized them as Turkish.
Even coffee which is actualy Iranian they baptized it as Turkish.
How a war tribal Mongolian collectiva managed to have these ingredients in upped Mongolian deserted tundras???
of course they couldnt so they do not invented all these so called as ''Turkish'' recipes.
All these modern mediterranean nations , the slavs , turks and albanians all adopted and stole cultural aspects from the Greeks like the Romans did many centuries ago before they reached and settle to this area.
simple and common sense at first is enough to reach the conclusion.
This is a storm in a tea cup gyros and doner have no relation, as the majority of the population of Turkey are islamised Armenians, Greeks, Slavs, Albanians, Kurds etc it does not make a difference if it was cooked first by a Muslim or a Christian.
Ghost Rider Hollywood
🇬🇷BaklavaKI …!😆😁
Doner it's turkish as 99% 9f Greek food
😂😂😂😂
döner is Türkisch the Greek claim all what they want
No Greek ever claimed döner is Greek that's the funny part.
Who cares how they will react?
LOL! Now its Türkiye... Go figure!
Kebab * what means..and it's not greek..but.they like to be greek😂 even Jesus Christ..kata lathos eine alou.
I think the Greeks can continue to use cheese salad as a Greek salad. After all, they got to know coffee, sherbet desserts and kebab thanks to the 450 years of Turkish rule.
In short, even many food names in Turkish and Greek use the suffix si or ki at the end of the word and steal culture.
Greeks claimed that even the latest Turkish delight was originally Greek delight.
I think Madonna gave a beautiful and meaningful answer to this in his song called Candy Store.
In short, a nation that lived under Turkish rule for 450 years is trying to play a role with its micro-nationalist mindset without producing anything.
Don't forget to say bon appetit, don't forget to say turkiko oreo as you eat, you Greeks.
😎🇹🇷
What is Turkiye? You mean Turkey 🦃🦃🦃🦃
First one to comment
😅😅
Tha channel is all paid Propaganda for Turkey.. pls stop tha crap..
My Greek father made kebab for you in turkey, (famous kebab shop) until you kicked him out. Then he came to Greece as a refugee and made the same kebab. in Greece for Greeks and became rich. You in Turkey would’ve been lucky to have kept him there and ate from HIS Kebab. (He made it for sultan Abdul Hamid once ) and you would never forget it. Moral? Greece and Turkey both have great kebab artists and both have mediocre ones that make mediocre food. PS human nature. So stop the me me me BS on all sides.
Yogurt is turkish, so as greeks and arabs who claim our delicacy’s.! YOU GUYS ARE ALSO TURKISH 😅
Take a DNΑ test lol
Your still don't have DNA code
@@Malomorgen37 , you living in lala land. Of course cause every human has Turkish DNA. The world rulers wants this secret and deny, sheeps follow.
Read some history and take the yogurt out from your eyes
MONGOL TURK YOUR HOME IS MONGOLIA , YOU HAVE NO ALPHABET , AND THE ARABS INVENTED ISLAM , YOU HAVE NOTHING THAT YOU HAVE NOT STOLEN
Talibans
Doner is different from Gyros, both shoukd be protected by EU
NATO
Not gonna lie, I think Greek gyros is really good, I like pita better than lavash.. BUT CACIK/TZATZIKI AND FRIES???? Come on.
Who cares??
Do not Claim Turkish delicacies. Otherwise the turks will claim you to end the fight.! 😅
Modern Turks are Muslim greeks
Yeah like Turk -Aegean hahahaha.
Θα πάρετε φορά και θα έρθετε να μας τα κλ............
..
@@Malomorgen37Do you know the story of the lamb that challenged the wolf? 😂
@@merve6987 your not the Wolfe's your a Coyote....you just look like a wolf from far away
greek like Malaysia who stealing everything from their neighbor 😂
We are the light of the western civilization ..who are you
@@Malomorgen37gayreek
Where are u from ? To even compare one of the center of the western world to backward countrie .
@@Malomorgen37 Who cares about Western civilization, man? Even the crue*lty of the most bar*barics is better than your so-called civilization. You know why?
@@Malomorgen37Civilization (!) which owes its prosperity to the goods they have e*xploited from the weak peoples of the world for centuries and the b*lood of hundreds of millions of people they have de*stroyed. History never forgets anything, Regardless of religion, we all believe in divine justice. It will come for you too, for sure.
its not döner ok, its gyroki
Unfunny and uneducated comment
Plus all Turkish foods are greek of origin
greek 😂
You can't compare to us
Embrace your heritage
Who cares about Doner?
@hasanabi you need to talk about this worldly debate
we dont care but we have to remind to all that turkish was nomads from mongolia and china ...the today turkey live on greek lands with greek cuisine they took the lands and the cuisene also
Roman lands! Turkey is carrying both legacy of Byzantium and ottomans
@@e.v3832 classic Turkish don’t want to call it Greek we know that’s not only turkey all people prefer say Roman rather than Greek same Albanian Croats and rest of world but don’t be jealous the world was Greek before Rome
döner comes from germany maybe get youre infos right-.- döner is born in berlin-.-
Adana turkey tehran Iran Sulaymaniyah Iraq Aleppo Syria capitals of kebab , sorry Greece kebab dosent belong to you .
This region was under Greek influence for thousands of years ...who are you ?
Bruh kebab is so disgusting is not greek we make the superior one
@@Malomorgen37 go check turkey haplogroups dna more than 10000 year before Greeks invaded , the truth is Greece with poor cuisine
Ayakları ile atlayarak döneri yapan at domuz eti döner satan dönerci kardeşlerimize müjde.