I can relate with this. Yes, the M11 or even used M10-R is twice the cost when you add a lens, but everything you said resonates. The M lenses also have very distinct personalities to their look, so you can pick the one that really works for you.
I went with the M10 instead of a Q for some of those reasons. In particular being flexible with the focal length. The other point for me is also to be able to use lenses with different characteristics. The Q has a great lens but I may not always feel for that exact look. On my M I have an influence on the type of lens and it’s character. For example, I love my 50mm summicron. It looks very special to me and has a particular character. The same with my 35mm 2.8 zeiss. I like the particular look of these lenses for specific purposes. At the same time, I understand people who use the Q as a kind of EDC. For me the M is not an EDC. It’s too heavy for me. I have another lighter and more compact camera for that.
Hello Sergio, You contradict yourself in your arguments, in fact you recently described the future x-pro4 that you wanted to see coming, with a large sensor to be able to zoom. The Q3 to everything you decided and you chose the M11. For my part, I prefer the M for its greater versatility. thanks for the video. David.
Hi, well, on contrary, Q3 proves my point - it is a great camera! I don't talk about 60mpx here because like I was saying multiple times before in other videos high megapixel sensor makes all the sense in a fixed lens camera (more than in M11 tbh). But bigger sensor and more megapixels are defied by a much wider lens (at least for me), so you don't gain that much by cropping. I was also talking about a camera like a digital GA645: big medium sensor camera with a fixed zoom lens, now that's another story. If such camera exists, it would definitely be my first choice😅 But it is exactly because of the reasons a talk here Q3 didn't make the top of my list - M11 is smaller, lighter, more versatile and stripped of all the unnecessary for me features (AF, HDMI, video, f/1.7, etc.)
You make the decision between purchasing a Q3 and an M11 simply one of model types. Surely cost is a major factor. I would have loved an M11 but the cost of a camera body and a separate lens was way too prohibitive so I went with the Q2. Yes, the 28mm fixed lens took some getting used to but it improved my composition over time. Also, the 28mm Summilux for M cameras is the same size as the 28mm fixed Summilux of the Q2/Q3. Slap that on an M11 with an EVF and you basically have a Q2/Q3 but at three times the cost!
You're right, but my point is - I don't need summilux, so I can mount any other smaller and lighter lens. With Q you have to have it at all times. It makes sense for these kind of cameras, but not for me personally. If not M11, I would still rather buy used M10P or M10 which are cheaper than Q2 even (if the question was the money)
Q3 is a sealed camera, the M11 is not, and also the Q3 has the ability to shoot at 28/35/50/75 and 90mm without having to spend thousands of dollars is lenses. The processor of the Q3 is better than that of the M11.
@@EduardoMaradiaga-s5w I don't know about you, but I don't shoot in the rain very often, sealing is a must for Q because you cannot detach lens to clean the sensor. As for cropping, I can do the same with any lens on M11, so it's actually more versatile since you can only crop from 28mm shots with Q3 - if I mount 90mm on m11 I can crop much further and get more usable range so being able to crop in is a great feature for Q3 with 60mpx, but it's still not as flexible as interchangeable lens camera like M11 with the same sensor.
i went for the q3 because i dont want to spend double the price to purchase lenses that cost as much as the q3 entire camera and used the extra money to buy a xt5 and a sony with 4 other sony lenses
Easy to choose between M or Q. Ask yourself will you use the screen or viso on an M, if yes, you better get a Q or SL. Operate a rangefinder as if another mirrorless with MF killed the purpose TBH. I use my Ms without using the screen, and if I need the screen I take my Q2. If you need Live View on M means rangefinder hindered you and you dislike it that’s why you still go back to the screen. It’s not experiencing a rangefinder, it’s like enjoying a rangefinder design but use it as other mirrorless just with MF.
Hey Sergio, It's lovely to follow your photographic journey. We are truly blessed as photographers with the range of tools we have at our disposal. However, I hope you don't mind me saying, but it's a bit hypocritical to talk about the lack of flexibility in Q3, when that archaic focusing aid on M11 is only a bit more flexible: you can really only shoot with 28-50mm lenses on it. And viewfinder blockage limits your lens selection even further. So in my opinion if Leica would integrate that evf into the M-styled camera body that would make for the ultimate aspirational camera. Because that accessory evf for M cameras looks wack 😛 What can be more pure and unobtrusive than a direct readout off the sensor? But then again, Leica being the luxury watch manufacturer from the camera world, I don't think they would ever release such a camera, as practicality is not the first thing on the list for their customers.
Thanks!.. Well, you do have screen and optional EVF for any lens that is not within the frame lines, but I feel perfectly fine with 28-50-90 frames. I'm yet to try out UWA, hoping to get Voigt 12 or 15mm anytime soon. I shoot primarily closed down to f/5.6-8, so focusing on Leica is fast and easy for me. Leica isn't a luxury watch, but it is not for everyone, that's true, I understand how it makes no sense for the majority of photographers, especially with some brilliant cameras on the market right now
@@SergioMusel don't get me wrong, I would absolutely pounce on the chance of using or even owning one the moment the opportunity presents itself. And I hope the precision engineering of Leicas results in that sublime user experience I imagine it to be. But admit that parallels between Leica and luxury watch brands like Rolex are uncanny: once high-quality tools for professionals in мачо-хлопчачі fields (photojournalism and scuba-diving respectively) and now utterly irrelevant for the actual task they were created to perform. I do understand the reasoning of the high-quality tool inspiring you to pick it and thus shoot more. But to me, that sounds a bit backwards. I'm sorry to be such a downer and bring this "well, actually" energy to the conversation 😅 One day hopefully I'd be able to form an opinion based on my own experience, but until then I'd have to comment on the opinions of others) Ah, and I'm genuinely interested in seeing how your "relationship" with this camera develops. Гарних знімків!
@@SergioMusel One more thing I'm curious about: is there any focus shoft with the lenses you shoot with when you're stopping down? I wounder how are you supposed to deal with that on the rangefinde camera.
@@androoy.p Old lenses probably do have that, but in real world I would say it's a non-critical issue, especially with modern lenses. Leicas are well calibrated and don't physically focus very close (the case when the focus shift is most prominent). When I focus on my 50 f/2 wide open I use screen for precision anyway, but those are rare cases for me.
@@androoy.pI own Elmarit 28 and a Steel Rim, both no back focus issue when stopping down but mounting a Summicron 35 replica by Light Lens Lab the focus started to shift when stopping down to f4-5.6 but at f8 it normalized again. So a good lens should be no focus shift issue. FYI, Voigtlander 35/1.4 MK-I has focus shift issue so it released a MK-II version to mitigate the problem.
I bought a Q as a cheap back-up camera for my M-P240, but it's for sale now, because I got a Leica D-LUX 7 to do the job. I'm not a great fan of fixed one focal length. The Q is a clever camera for some, but not for me. An M and a 50, 90 and 24 is the perfect set for me. Keep on rolling.
That is a good case, but not with Leica Q, it was never designed or intended for one hand operation (inlike for instance Ricoh GR). You can, but it was clearly designed for both hands (like most Leicas) and so that’s why you can see the same design language throughout M/CL/Q models (talking about the back side). So that’s what I meant when saying they sacrificed design language and usability over an ugly designed tilt screen… I guess some like it, some don’t, I’m just with the latter ones😅
I have an M11 and a Q3 and two boys of 6 and 5. I so much more use the Q3 due to the fact that it has AF. I also enjoy not having to decide which lens to use. Furthermore, I had to go through three M11 because the first two bricked and the third still occasionally freezes. Different strokes for different folks.
I don’t mind having the 28mm fixed lens on my Q2 but the size of the camera is frustrating because it’s harder to pack in a non-camera bag. So I got an M11 because I too wanted small lenses and the ability to separate the lens from the camera when packing.
I don't think there was much beyond the fact that they wanted to include their first light metre (which is a spot meter and reported to be better than the M6 one). The light metre and shutter speed is also still considered to be better than the rest (and is definitely more useful and easy to use in practice than that of the M6 and the way the metering has been since the M6). It has some quirks but works nicely alongside my M11 @@SergioMusel
I have an M6 and a bunch of M ZM and VM lenses… tossing up buying the M11 I think the digital M line has finally matured sufficiently that the step to M12 will be negligible for my purposes I don’t need more than 33MP to be honest.
I’m an M shooter as well, shooting on M240 & M10M. I’ve a Q2, and here’re my 2 cents. I would say M is for self creation and for specific use. Q is a camera for hanging out with friends and family. For example if I go travel my 2 Ms wont be my choice cause I don’t wanna bring lenses and cleaning kit. Dust is bothering me if I switch lens in say a beach or some dusty environment like on busy street. So Q is a better choice, light and even the size is bigger than my M with Summilux lens, but you can pack lesser things. Just a camera. With the current Q3 transfer speed I can leave my SD Dongle behind. I went to Japan and Sarawak with the Q2 and there’s nothing that I cannot capture. If I would bring my M there’s no Macro and OIS. Low light Q2 easily is the choice.
Hello, thanks for the video and about low light, what do you think of the image quality from 3200 iso to 6400 ? I took some inside and there was much noise that wasn’t so nice. Do you have an opinion ?
Fast forward…”Why I got the Q3 to go with my M11” JK. But seriously, the first Fuji camera I purchased was an X100V when it first released. I then fell in love with Fuji and purchased the xpro3 to have a body with interchangeable lenses. X100 became my dad/travel cam. Now that I have an M11 I’m itching to have that same Fuji tandem equivalent for Leica. I still have my x100v paired with the m11, but I am really curious.
I didn't talk about the performance at all - in fact, if you're attentive, you might have noticed that I praise it. What I point out instead is that the lens is physically big and they did not attempt to make a version with a narrower focal length (like Ricoh GR3X did for instance).
I can relate with this. Yes, the M11 or even used M10-R is twice the cost when you add a lens, but everything you said resonates. The M lenses also have very distinct personalities to their look, so you can pick the one that really works for you.
Totally agree!
very subjective and more of a rant than actually helpful......sorry I skipped out half way through the video....
Thanks!
I went with the M10 instead of a Q for some of those reasons. In particular being flexible with the focal length. The other point for me is also to be able to use lenses with different characteristics. The Q has a great lens but I may not always feel for that exact look. On my M I have an influence on the type of lens and it’s character. For example, I love my 50mm summicron. It looks very special to me and has a particular character. The same with my 35mm 2.8 zeiss. I like the particular look of these lenses for specific purposes. At the same time, I understand people who use the Q as a kind of EDC. For me the M is not an EDC. It’s too heavy for me. I have another lighter and more compact camera for that.
Having the huge variety of old lenses for M mount is also a selling point for M👌🏻Have fun shooting!
Hello Sergio,
You contradict yourself in your arguments, in fact you recently described the future x-pro4 that you wanted to see coming, with a large sensor to be able to zoom. The Q3 to everything you decided and you chose the M11.
For my part, I prefer the M for its greater versatility.
thanks for the video.
David.
Hi, well, on contrary, Q3 proves my point - it is a great camera! I don't talk about 60mpx here because like I was saying multiple times before in other videos high megapixel sensor makes all the sense in a fixed lens camera (more than in M11 tbh). But bigger sensor and more megapixels are defied by a much wider lens (at least for me), so you don't gain that much by cropping. I was also talking about a camera like a digital GA645: big medium sensor camera with a fixed zoom lens, now that's another story. If such camera exists, it would definitely be my first choice😅 But it is exactly because of the reasons a talk here Q3 didn't make the top of my list - M11 is smaller, lighter, more versatile and stripped of all the unnecessary for me features (AF, HDMI, video, f/1.7, etc.)
You make the decision between purchasing a Q3 and an M11 simply one of model types. Surely cost is a major factor. I would have loved an M11 but the cost of a camera body and a separate lens was way too prohibitive so I went with the Q2. Yes, the 28mm fixed lens took some getting used to but it improved my composition over time. Also, the 28mm Summilux for M cameras is the same size as the 28mm fixed Summilux of the Q2/Q3. Slap that on an M11 with an EVF and you basically have a Q2/Q3 but at three times the cost!
You're right, but my point is - I don't need summilux, so I can mount any other smaller and lighter lens. With Q you have to have it at all times. It makes sense for these kind of cameras, but not for me personally. If not M11, I would still rather buy used M10P or M10 which are cheaper than Q2 even (if the question was the money)
Q3 is a sealed camera, the M11 is not, and also the Q3 has the ability to shoot at 28/35/50/75 and 90mm without having to spend thousands of dollars is lenses. The processor of the Q3 is better than that of the M11.
@@EduardoMaradiaga-s5w I don't know about you, but I don't shoot in the rain very often, sealing is a must for Q because you cannot detach lens to clean the sensor. As for cropping, I can do the same with any lens on M11, so it's actually more versatile since you can only crop from 28mm shots with Q3 - if I mount 90mm on m11 I can crop much further and get more usable range so being able to crop in is a great feature for Q3 with 60mpx, but it's still not as flexible as interchangeable lens camera like M11 with the same sensor.
@@SergioMusel It doesn’t have the same sensor, the Q3 has a better sensor.
@@EduardoMaradiaga-s5w Says who exactly?
i went for the q3 because i dont want to spend double the price to purchase lenses that cost as much as the q3 entire camera and used the extra money to buy a xt5 and a sony with 4 other sony lenses
also i enjoy the autofocus and also the tilt screen even if not flush id rather have the tilt sceen than no having any tilt at all
I'm happy for you, enjoy your set up!
Easy to choose between M or Q. Ask yourself will you use the screen or viso on an M, if yes, you better get a Q or SL. Operate a rangefinder as if another mirrorless with MF killed the purpose TBH. I use my Ms without using the screen, and if I need the screen I take my Q2. If you need Live View on M means rangefinder hindered you and you dislike it that’s why you still go back to the screen. It’s not experiencing a rangefinder, it’s like enjoying a rangefinder design but use it as other mirrorless just with MF.
I don't completely agree, I use screen on M for wide-angle shots as well as some tricky angles where it's impossible to do it without the eye.
Hey Sergio,
It's lovely to follow your photographic journey. We are truly blessed as photographers with the range of tools we have at our disposal.
However, I hope you don't mind me saying, but it's a bit hypocritical to talk about the lack of flexibility in Q3, when that archaic focusing aid on M11 is only a bit more flexible: you can really only shoot with 28-50mm lenses on it. And viewfinder blockage limits your lens selection even further.
So in my opinion if Leica would integrate that evf into the M-styled camera body that would make for the ultimate aspirational camera. Because that accessory evf for M cameras looks wack 😛
What can be more pure and unobtrusive than a direct readout off the sensor?
But then again, Leica being the luxury watch manufacturer from the camera world, I don't think they would ever release such a camera, as practicality is not the first thing on the list for their customers.
Thanks!.. Well, you do have screen and optional EVF for any lens that is not within the frame lines, but I feel perfectly fine with 28-50-90 frames. I'm yet to try out UWA, hoping to get Voigt 12 or 15mm anytime soon. I shoot primarily closed down to f/5.6-8, so focusing on Leica is fast and easy for me. Leica isn't a luxury watch, but it is not for everyone, that's true, I understand how it makes no sense for the majority of photographers, especially with some brilliant cameras on the market right now
@@SergioMusel don't get me wrong, I would absolutely pounce on the chance of using or even owning one the moment the opportunity presents itself. And I hope the precision engineering of Leicas results in that sublime user experience I imagine it to be.
But admit that parallels between Leica and luxury watch brands like Rolex are uncanny: once high-quality tools for professionals in мачо-хлопчачі fields (photojournalism and scuba-diving respectively) and now utterly irrelevant for the actual task they were created to perform.
I do understand the reasoning of the high-quality tool inspiring you to pick it and thus shoot more. But to me, that sounds a bit backwards.
I'm sorry to be such a downer and bring this "well, actually" energy to the conversation 😅
One day hopefully I'd be able to form an opinion based on my own experience, but until then I'd have to comment on the opinions of others)
Ah, and I'm genuinely interested in seeing how your "relationship" with this camera develops.
Гарних знімків!
@@SergioMusel One more thing I'm curious about: is there any focus shoft with the lenses you shoot with when you're stopping down? I wounder how are you supposed to deal with that on the rangefinde camera.
@@androoy.p Old lenses probably do have that, but in real world I would say it's a non-critical issue, especially with modern lenses. Leicas are well calibrated and don't physically focus very close (the case when the focus shift is most prominent). When I focus on my 50 f/2 wide open I use screen for precision anyway, but those are rare cases for me.
@@androoy.pI own Elmarit 28 and a Steel Rim, both no back focus issue when stopping down but mounting a Summicron 35 replica by Light Lens Lab the focus started to shift when stopping down to f4-5.6 but at f8 it normalized again. So a good lens should be no focus shift issue. FYI, Voigtlander 35/1.4 MK-I has focus shift issue so it released a MK-II version to mitigate the problem.
I bought a Q as a cheap back-up camera for my M-P240, but it's for sale now, because I got a Leica D-LUX 7 to do the job. I'm not a great fan of fixed one focal length. The Q is a clever camera for some, but not for me. An M and a 50, 90 and 24 is the perfect set for me. Keep on rolling.
Thanks! Exactly, Q cameras are great for their purpose, but it doesn't really align with what I want... but it's perfect for some other photographers!
All buttons to the right is perfect. Single hand operation while left hand holds camera and operates the lens 6:12
That is a good case, but not with Leica Q, it was never designed or intended for one hand operation (inlike for instance Ricoh GR). You can, but it was clearly designed for both hands (like most Leicas) and so that’s why you can see the same design language throughout M/CL/Q models (talking about the back side). So that’s what I meant when saying they sacrificed design language and usability over an ugly designed tilt screen… I guess some like it, some don’t, I’m just with the latter ones😅
I have an M11 and a Q3 and two boys of 6 and 5. I so much more use the Q3 due to the fact that it has AF. I also enjoy not having to decide which lens to use. Furthermore, I had to go through three M11 because the first two bricked and the third still occasionally freezes. Different strokes for different folks.
Like I said, Q3 is a great camera that can easily fit many scenarios for other people, just not for me I guess😅
I don’t mind having the 28mm fixed lens on my Q2 but the size of the camera is frustrating because it’s harder to pack in a non-camera bag. So I got an M11 because I too wanted small lenses and the ability to separate the lens from the camera when packing.
It does make a compact and light kit👍🏻
M11. Great choice.
Thanks! I love it so far
Hey, you leave the M5 alone! I love my M5 😂
Everything has its place😉 But seriously, I really wanna dig into history of making M5 to find out why the design deviated so much with it🤔
I don't think there was much beyond the fact that they wanted to include their first light metre (which is a spot meter and reported to be better than the M6 one). The light metre and shutter speed is also still considered to be better than the rest (and is definitely more useful and easy to use in practice than that of the M6 and the way the metering has been since the M6). It has some quirks but works nicely alongside my M11 @@SergioMusel
I like the side straps👌🏻@@Shephard1978
I have an M6 and a bunch of M ZM and VM lenses… tossing up buying the M11 I think the digital M line has finally matured sufficiently that the step to M12 will be negligible for my purposes I don’t need more than 33MP to be honest.
Agreed, unlike in Q3, 60mpx in M11 doesn’t make too much sense, but what can you do😅
@@SergioMusel I don’t think 60MP makes sense in any camera for 99.9% of users.
I’m an M shooter as well, shooting on M240 & M10M. I’ve a Q2, and here’re my 2 cents. I would say M is for self creation and for specific use. Q is a camera for hanging out with friends and family. For example if I go travel my 2 Ms wont be my choice cause I don’t wanna bring lenses and cleaning kit. Dust is bothering me if I switch lens in say a beach or some dusty environment like on busy street. So Q is a better choice, light and even the size is bigger than my M with Summilux lens, but you can pack lesser things. Just a camera. With the current Q3 transfer speed I can leave my SD Dongle behind. I went to Japan and Sarawak with the Q2 and there’s nothing that I cannot capture. If I would bring my M there’s no Macro and OIS. Low light Q2 easily is the choice.
Hello, thanks for the video and about low light, what do you think of the image quality from 3200 iso to 6400 ? I took some inside and there was much noise that wasn’t so nice. Do you have an opinion ?
@@francineguillard8026May I know which camera are you referring to?
of course, when u have the money, u can buy anything u like
c'est la vie, no need to be sour about it
Fast forward…”Why I got the Q3 to go with my M11” JK. But seriously, the first Fuji camera I purchased was an X100V when it first released. I then fell in love with Fuji and purchased the xpro3 to have a body with interchangeable lenses. X100 became my dad/travel cam. Now that I have an M11 I’m itching to have that same Fuji tandem equivalent for Leica. I still have my x100v paired with the m11, but I am really curious.
Ahhh)) Well, if you have M11, I see no reason for you to get Q3 - X100V surves the purpose much better
The lens is the same as the original Q but if you check the MTF charts the Q lens still out performs M version of the 28 summilux… just saying.
I didn't talk about the performance at all - in fact, if you're attentive, you might have noticed that I praise it. What I point out instead is that the lens is physically big and they did not attempt to make a version with a narrower focal length (like Ricoh GR3X did for instance).
The lens with the best MTF chart doesn’t win any competitions 😂
What did you use to cover the Leica logo? Looks clean!
Thanks! Found PVC stickers online👌