Elliott Sober - Philosophy of Evolution & Religion

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 125

  • @skippdiddly1409
    @skippdiddly1409 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Physics uncertainty principle and genetic mutations in evolution are sufficient to argue against evolution as causally complete.

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      I understand brother but who knows; maybe God’s purpose is love.

    • @skippdiddly1409
      @skippdiddly1409 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@Ekam-SatYes I think maybe so as well. I was just following the coherence of the argument which was left hanging in mid air.

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@skippdiddly1409 🙏

  • @S3RAVA3LM
    @S3RAVA3LM 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    If there's a genuine yearning within you, don't let any groups beliefs impede you, and strive to seek it out. Don't settle for any belief. Learn how to engage into the dialectic, how to apply retroduction and apophasis, synthesis, recollection, and spontaneous thought genesis.

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      🙏

  • @Roshan-q6n
    @Roshan-q6n 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    We can't produce anything that has a function without thought of how that function should be built and how it will perform. The human body alone has multiple parts that perform many complex functions that we could not design nor reproduce without any understanding of how they work, yet we gloss over the intricacies and its design and explain it away with one magic word "Evolution"

    • @georgedoyle2487
      @georgedoyle2487 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Exactly!!
      The belief that the blind, mindless, ultimately meaningless, accidental arrangement of the magical cosmic tea leaves at the bottom of the atheists morning cup of tea accidentally created everything is a fairy tale for adults who are afraid of the light!!
      "Atheism is a fairy tale for those afraid of the light" - (Dr. John Lennox Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University (emeritus).
      It’s a fairytale for those afraid of ultimate goodness and ultimate justice in the universe - isn’t it? It’s just so obvious.
      I mean, maybe there are few confused sceptics but why OUGHT we do anything or believe that anything has “MEANING” in a pitiless, merciless, ultimately meaningless universe where we are all nothing more substantive than ultimately meaningless, hollow and soulless apes who share half their DNA with a potato and just “DANCE TO OUR DNA” - right?
      My search continues for an intellectually honest strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist who can give a cohesive, logically consistent, objective foundation HOW THEY KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL IS OBJECTIVELY “TRUE” OR “FALSE” IN AN ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS AND ULTIMATELY POINTLESS UNIVERSE!! I’ll wait!!

    • @stellarwind1946
      @stellarwind1946 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Or use the word ‘adaptation’ as a broadly defined way to explain what otherwise appears to be goal-directed processes.

  • @gettaasteroid4650
    @gettaasteroid4650 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    oh, so the reason derived homologies are better than homoplasies and ancestral phylogeny is because of Carlyle's "inarticulate Bible"... that great dust heap called "History" - Birrell, 1884

  • @nosferatus-mancha
    @nosferatus-mancha 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Mr. Sober presented a very weak case. There's a possibility of a god's intervention in the evolution but, he does not know exactly what is it.

    • @evaadam3635
      @evaadam3635 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ... the natural laws that God designed to govern this Physical Universe is not Evolution....

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      De primal purpose of GOD IS LOVE.

  • @aporist
    @aporist 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The Prof Sober is not a twist in my sobriety.

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I love that song.

  • @evelynbarton6349
    @evelynbarton6349 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    We were created by God & have evolved over billions of years! My opinion only.

    • @evaadam3635
      @evaadam3635 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ...only the physical brain and body were created by GOD but not our free aware immortal souls who are free splits of the Holy Spirit...

    • @Cafez27
      @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Depends on what you mean by evolution, and whether you believe the veracity of the bibles creation account

    • @lipan315
      @lipan315 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Any opinion should be welcomed 😊 thank you for sharing!

    • @Cafez27
      @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ that’s a claim unsupported by scripture I’m afraid

    • @Cafez27
      @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@lipan315 indeed it should

  • @jbrink1789
    @jbrink1789 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    beliefs are frameworks of possibility. constructive language is how we can navagate these frameworks of possibility. deconstuctive language tears down possibility. truth is infinite if using constuctive language thats my opinion.

  • @gfjdhdfghfdjgf6167
    @gfjdhdfghfdjgf6167 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    i think what he is saying is obvious. i think evolution does damage theism, but barely anybody actually claims there is a strict contradiction between evolution and theism.

  • @edwardtutman196
    @edwardtutman196 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    A very SIMPLE argument is: evolution is a process of "god" being the whole process.

    • @evaadam3635
      @evaadam3635 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ....why would an Almighty Creator wait for billions of yrs of evolution just to create an amoeba ?.. your theory can be considered as Blasphemy..

    • @edwardtutman196
      @edwardtutman196 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@evaadam3635 the "Almighty" is also the Alpatient One. Besides, he has countless other Universes to deal with. lol

    • @evaadam3635
      @evaadam3635 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@edwardtutman196 ...why create many universes when GOD can just add another galaxy in this one universe ? .. you are not making any sense....

    • @WayneLynch69
      @WayneLynch69 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      "There is grandeur in this view of life...whether originally breathed into a few forms or one"
      Darwin couldn't care less what others think of his theory. But NO ONE can dispute his
      appropriating "a few forms or one" from the two origins in Genesis: the 7 day & Adamic.
      "The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble( meaning unsolvable)"
      165 years later NOTHING has challenged WHATSOEVER the absolute failure to explain
      life coming from inanImacy. "Origin of life science is a SCAM" Lord high executioner of
      abiogenesis Lee Cronin--- th-cam.com/video/vWjEb7Z1k18/w-d-xo.html
      Evolution is beautiful even if stolen:
      "3rd day plant seed"---"5th day marine life...followed by birds" "6th day terrestrial life....followed by humans"
      HTF is that NOT "descent with modification"?!? The mechanism is unstated...but SO WAS IT FOR DARWIN.
      Darwin NEVER knew the property of inheritance; genes. It trammeled his hypothesis NOT AT ALL

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Maybe the creator desired not to be alone.

  • @clovislyme6195
    @clovislyme6195 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    If magic is possible then magic may occur.
    Yes, we all know that, but the exploration of that idea with someone who does not believe in magic and (obviously) does not believe that it has occurred does not make for an interesting or useful episode of CTT.

    • @georgedoyle2487
      @georgedoyle2487 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Lame!!
      CRINGE ATHEISM in full effect!
      Militant atheism is a walking ball of self contradiction and cognitive dissonance!!

  • @joelharris4399
    @joelharris4399 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Accommodation: a euphemism for cognitive dissonance without wanting to come across as an ignoramus

    • @georgedoyle2487
      @georgedoyle2487 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      “Cognitive dissonance”
      Oh the irony!! Listening to militant atheists unwittingly pontificating about metaphysical realities such as ultimate “TRUTH” and “VALUE” and preaching about “COGNITIVE DISSONANCE” whilst subscribing to the belief that we are all nothing more substantive than ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, ULTIMATELY DETERMINED, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APES WHO SHARE HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO IS PRICELESS!!
      I rest my case!!

  • @robertmcclintock8701
    @robertmcclintock8701 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    U^ェ^U Consciousness is the particle and wave double slit experiment. The cones and rods of your eyes preserve the particle and wave duality so your vision don't look like a flat screen television. It's supposed to be a violation of physics but it is the only exception in the whole universe.

  • @ronhudson3730
    @ronhudson3730 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Accepting current theories, verified through experimentation, regarding the beginning and evolution of the universe as correct, all things must be accounted for through various natural processes. Quantum, atomic, molecular and systemic up to and including natural selection and us. That the universe is extremely conducive for all the realities we see today is incontrovertible. If we hadn't developed on Earth, presumably other self-aware beings would have and might have developed elsewhere. What is currently unknown and perhaps unknowable is what was the nature of the state was before the Big Bang that allowed for our universe. I don't see why a possible explanation is that "God" was the state before the Big Bang. "God" allowed for it and established the many parameters that allowed for the universe and us, that exist today. We were not a sure thing and to assume that the tilt of the Moon allowing for seasons and evolution allowing for us, are "God's" handiwork, is a step too far for me. If it hadn't't happened here, presumably in a vast universe it would have happened elsewhere, and maybe did. "God" is as good a postulation for all things than any other. If some gain emotional support (me included) from concluding that, where's the harm? If organized religion is largely negative, it's because it's a human invention, subject to all the human frailaties. This gent sums up my feeling exactly and to all who denigrate him or his comments, why watch this channel if you're not open to all ideas?

  • @darylwilliams7883
    @darylwilliams7883 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Evolution and religion can co-exist by each ignoring the other. That can only happen if governments make policies based on facts. In which case medical policy would incorporate some evolutionary theory and zero religion. And as long as that happens anyone can believe anything they want without hurting society.
    Aside from that, all these people are talking about is purely hypothetical and aside from being a thought experiment this discussion is not of any value.

  • @henrih137
    @henrih137 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Prophecing to be wise they became fools

    • @evaadam3635
      @evaadam3635 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ... good point... prophecing to be science geniuses they became worshippers of Darwin's IGUANA as their Original Mama looking funny fools...

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      🙏

  • @AJavusha7
    @AJavusha7 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    God takes a minute speaks but there gotta be A creator That's only love you mr Robert/Most love his loss but gain others and god told me love people and love yourself he also told me my children is his children but we are one they come from the father not me He made the universe,love, kindness,pain,good or evil ) heart of mind of female or male God came travel though universe speed of light without anybody knowing he cwn also become human too if the person connected too the God resources He can be male or female cause God is good and evil He just don't like people do all evil )I give my love like God give his love

  • @robertmcclintock8701
    @robertmcclintock8701 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    ~>゜)ーーー We need to popularize the idea of getting God married. Getting God married is a good use of someone's time. You are supposed to make the environment intelligent so no God is needed. We fixed the video and audio for the best experience possible. Cameras are supernatural and all of them captured 3D that not a gimmick. The audio loud don't make violence so has depth. Nobody has to buy anything for it to work.

  • @LuuLuong-bn8iy
    @LuuLuong-bn8iy 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Rob enjoying yo free speech 😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😂

  • @robertmcclintock8701
    @robertmcclintock8701 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    (*^^*) The human body is burly, gnarly and surly like a fractal.

  • @nyworker
    @nyworker 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    If you put anything out there as an argument I.e. God vs No God and it becomes public domain nonsense.

    • @LuuLuong-bn8iy
      @LuuLuong-bn8iy 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      😂😂😂😂😂

  • @Move_I_Got_This-b3v
    @Move_I_Got_This-b3v 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Because of the hiddenness of God evolution doesn't have an effect on spiritual matters.
    God didn't sit around for billions of years waiting for everything to unfold.

  • @robertmcclintock8701
    @robertmcclintock8701 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    (^_^) Natural selection is the character flaw in evil that is integrity is more important than life otherwise evolution is tragic circumstances with nothing intelligent happening. Almost everyone survive until they reproduce. Nothing is getting selected except for the character flaw in evil. I found a replacement for the character flaw in evil that I liked but God makes me forget things that will cause me trouble.

  • @sanjeevjain5519
    @sanjeevjain5519 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    If we agree that living beings have souls, then we can say that soul may be the agency of evolution.

    • @user-gk9lg5sp4y
      @user-gk9lg5sp4y 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I don't agree that souls exist.

    • @sanjeevjain5519
      @sanjeevjain5519 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@user-gk9lg5sp4y Souls are the scientific and philosophical necessity

    • @Cafez27
      @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Beings don’t have souls according to the bible, they ARE souls

    • @sanjeevjain5519
      @sanjeevjain5519 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Cafez27 Soul with a body

    • @Cafez27
      @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ not quite my friend the body is a soul, there isn’t anything separate from the body…..

  • @robertmcclintock8701
    @robertmcclintock8701 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    ( ^ω^ ) This is an artistic proof of a created universe. When you paint a shadow it's the opposite color of the object that made the shadow. Nobody knew what the opposite color of white was so the artists avoided painting white on white. The opposite color of white is baby blue and baby pink. The first artist to figure it out was Norman Rockwell. I was the second artist to figure it out. I saw it in the corner of a white room. The lighting was perfect to see it. Pigments have different rules than light. It took them thousands of years to get all the pigments they have now.

  • @RalphBrooker-gn9iv
    @RalphBrooker-gn9iv 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Evolutionary ‘saltation’ (also called punctuated equilibrium: seemingly massive functional leaps without intermediate fossil traces leading one to suggest that evolution is punctuated rather than smooth) might be laid at the foot of the interventionist theorist.
    I’m an atheist but I find Dawkins a bore, not at all a great philosophical mind. Dennett, a fine philosopher, but en thrall to a radical reading of Darwin according to which: no adaptive change without natural selection.
    There’s a wonderful exchange of papers between Elliot Sober and Karen Neander on the precise nature, scope and formulation of evolutionary explanation based on Darwinian (better: neo-Darwinian) principles.
    The initial claims made by Sober are so philosophically or logically unadventurous (not Sober’s) fault that he should need to be defending them. But thanks to the likes of Dawkins (radical wing of Darwinism!), not a logician or philosopher, Sober finds himself having point out these near platitudes.

    • @ClarenceThompkins
      @ClarenceThompkins 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Not sure why we can't just call evolution, Evolution. No need to bring up Darwin, evolution has far surpassed his understanding of evolution, though he has greatly contributed to the base of the theory.

    • @RalphBrooker-gn9iv
      @RalphBrooker-gn9iv 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ The basis remains essentially Darwinian. Omitting that fact might encourage a resurgence in, say Lamarckism. It would be premature indeed to pass Darwin off to the sidelines.

    • @ClarenceThompkins
      @ClarenceThompkins 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @RalphBrooker-gn9iv People in the field wouldn't somehow invest into Lamarckism because they understand the processes and principles of evolution. Just like physics doesn't say Newton's law/theory of gravity, they are just called Law of Gravity and the theory of gravity. Sorry had to make sure I was correct (general relativity is Einstein) anyway the only thing that the labeling evolution as Darwinian or neo Darwin is give fuel to creationist...

    • @user-gk9lg5sp4y
      @user-gk9lg5sp4y 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@RalphBrooker-gn9ivDarwin would need years of study to even understand where his theory is currently.

    • @user-gk9lg5sp4y
      @user-gk9lg5sp4y 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@RalphBrooker-gn9iv Also, Darwin wasn't the only one at that time to realize that life on Earth had common ancestry and changed over time.
      Alfred Russel Wallace, for one did as well. He was half way around the world studying beatles when Darwin was formulating the theory and Darwin only published when he did as a result of Wallace correspondence.

  • @0-by-1_Publishing_LLC
    @0-by-1_Publishing_LLC 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I wish Kuhn would go after the Multiverse and String Theory proponents with equal zeal.

    • @imgoing2stayonyourmind654
      @imgoing2stayonyourmind654 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Why?
      "String Theory proponents" don't say it is a proven theory.
      They say profusely, that "String Theory" equations produces an amount of dimension that are inconsistent with the observable world that we live in.
      "Multiverse" "proponents" specifically say, don't claim it's a theory; as a matter of fact they specifically and consistently say, that the mathematical proposition is "untestable".
      "Multiverse" is a by-product that pops out of the equations of "Inflation".
      Kuhn understands this all too well.

    • @LuuLuong-bn8iy
      @LuuLuong-bn8iy 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      O 😅😂😂😂😂😅😅😅

  • @Cafez27
    @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    The bible makes it super clear at an understandable level how the universe and earth and all life on earth came about

    • @evaadam3635
      @evaadam3635 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ...there are great values written in the bible but it is still a book written by men who were humans who can err, divinely inspired or not...

    • @Cafez27
      @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ that’s a contradiction in terms my friend. If the Bible is inspired by God as it claims then the men are effectively acting as secretaries being dictated to which means there are no errors in the Bible.
      This is an argument or proposition often trotted out. And let us suppose for a moment that with copying of the Bible over millennia and centuries some errors have crept in those errors have been captured and corrected because we have literally thousands of manuscripts from which the Bible cannon has been derived.
      So the core proposition of the Bible, the moral tenants prophecy historical references mankind‘s meaning and purpose and more importantly, God purpose for this creation remains unblemished and intact.

    • @evaadam3635
      @evaadam3635 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@Cafez27...being divinely inspired does not equate to GOD writing the book for the book to be perfect... again, the book was not written by GOD but written by humans who can err.... relying totally on a book written by men, without using your good senses, makes you vulnerable to the imperfections of men...

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Right but we have the intelligence to connect the dots.

    • @Cafez27
      @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ connect what dots?

  • @ericknisley100
    @ericknisley100 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Barely 35 seconds in and this guy is already trotting out the Nazis. Snore.

  • @robertmcclintock8701
    @robertmcclintock8701 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    p(^^)q It's intelligently designed that if you master evolution it just makes you a baby doctor.

  • @khaleelorwhatever
    @khaleelorwhatever 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Here comes the Atheist 😂

  • @peweegangloku6428
    @peweegangloku6428 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    What do evolutionists (atheists) think? That God should apologize to them for their self imposed ignorance?

    • @TonyJack74
      @TonyJack74 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      There's many theists that believe in evolution

    • @peweegangloku6428
      @peweegangloku6428 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @TonyJack74 Yes, some "theists" are so uninformed, uncertain and confused about the existence of God that they try to lean on evolution theory as an escape route.
      The Bible clearly says that God created every living thing according to its kind. (Genesis 1:21) It does not say that one kind of living thing was made to change into another. And there is no evidence, whatsoever, to prove that any particular kind of living thing changed to another kind. There is zero fossil record for that. Even viruses mutate and still remain viruses. No one has ever seen a virus change to a bacterium or other single or multicellular organisms. Evolution lacks concrete evidence. It is nothing but empty talks. There is not one successful evolution experiment to prove their claim.

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      One

    • @peweegangloku6428
      @peweegangloku6428 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Ekam-Sat I know that's one question but I made it appear like two on purpose?

    • @Ekam-Sat
      @Ekam-Sat 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@peweegangloku6428 Understood! Thank you for the reply and best wishes for the New Year.

  • @LuuLuong-bn8iy
    @LuuLuong-bn8iy 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • @Cafez27
    @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Sobers view is vacuous

    • @TonyJack74
      @TonyJack74 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      You're dependence and adherence to a book written over 1500 years with wildly conflicting agendas,flawed and often contradictory theology,different creation accounts,etc is vacuous

    • @Cafez27
      @Cafez27 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ well done for making a whole bunch of baseless claims!
      You do know that simply stating something doesn’t make it true don’t you 🤦🏼

  • @Ekam-Sat
    @Ekam-Sat 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    There's too many men, too many people
    Making too many problems
    And not much love to go round
    Can't you see this is a land of confusion?
    - Genesis (the band)

  • @sujok-acupuncture9246
    @sujok-acupuncture9246 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Robert... Why discuss the fake evolutionary theory... It's getting so boring.

    • @user-gk9lg5sp4y
      @user-gk9lg5sp4y 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      So there's a fake evolutionary now?

    • @sujok-acupuncture9246
      @sujok-acupuncture9246 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@user-gk9lg5sp4y even fossils don't indicate it. I have not seen monkey fossils showing evolution.

    • @johnstaub6278
      @johnstaub6278 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Interesting how you lead your life with your head stuck in the sand.

    • @sujok-acupuncture9246
      @sujok-acupuncture9246 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@johnstaub6278 my head has not seen a single fossil in the sand showing evolution.

  • @evaadam3635
    @evaadam3635 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    "Philosophy of Religion"
    Religion started when stone-age people believed in the Almighty Creator by just witnessing the Awesome Wonders of Nature... and because of their faith, many of them received the heavenly light that made them understand GOD better.... they then share this light to their descendants ..
    .. the sharing of this light went on and on from generations to generations that finally were written on tablets, scrolls, bibles, etc.. being interpreted in many different ways due to the writer's language handicap in ancient times...
    ...the passage of this light from generations to generations being interpreted, or misinterpreted, had led to the development of many religions from all over the world ... this is why you have genesis, bible, koran, torah, etc etc...
    ... I believe I received the same light because of my sincere faith, but fortunate enough that I have enough available words today to interpret and convey this light much better, unlike ancient writers whose literacy was still in its infancy... this is why you find my interpretation somehow different but has many things in common with what you read from religious books....
    ..nevertheless, it is your sincere faith in the existence of a Loving GOD that matters that can save your soul, and not how imperfect men interpreted the unknown GOD through the light they received...