great video! i’d love more content that’s aimed at casual pokémon players who know nothing about competitive. i’m always trying to get my friends into vgc but they tend to feel overwhelmed by the knowledge required to really enjoy watching
I love these types of informative videos, like FSG and Wolfey's breakdowns of strategy. I still suck at competitive pokemon but it's nice to know what's up.
Oh boy if this ain't me 😅 Every time I get above like 1250 on Showdown I feel like god's gift to competitive Pokémon lmao, even though I'm well aware that's not that high at all
THIS is good pokemon content. Refers to other formats, refers to other videos even, compares VGC to singles in a good way, and is well put together. Good stuff, guys.
@@MrCheezesomewhat because singles is still much more oriented around switching. It’s not uncommon to have a Pokémon dedicated to getting multiple hazards in 3v3. But the typical “hazard war” you’d see in 6v6 singles isn’t really a thing in 3v3 afaik.
great video!! this team was so much fun to play, and i'm so happy to see that it's being remembered, especially in such a positive light. the final point is perfect, it's always important to try and find new ways to succeed that your opponents may not have considered. the sheer number of potentially viable strategies is one of the things i love about mons.
I was yelling about rocks last generation, between all the Fake Out, U-Turn, and Parting Shots being thrown around, Stealth Rock had such great potential for a ton of damage.
@@maxspecs likely not because hazards are just so much more rare than singles, but that just make them that much more effective as a surprise tool against teams weak to them like with incineroar that loves to constantly switch it
Yeah but stealth rock has multiple issues despite all that. Like the video said, VGC is a much faster metagame. What does that mean? Well, when looking at the current format, most games aren’t even lasting 12 turns because the power level is so high. Other issues of stealth rock are the fact that you need to run a Pokémon that has it, justify a move slot to run a move that may be completely worthless rather than a coverage/support move and, lastly, spending an entire turn to set it facing against two Pokémon who can double the rocker and get an easy KO. Obviously, there is much more nuance into what I said but when some of the best performing Pokémon, Pokémon like iron hands, flutter mane, and broken rapid strike urshifu, aren’t even weak to stealth rock, it makes it even more damning to ever use or waste a move slot on it. On top of all of this, VGC is a 4v4, not a 6v6. So you’re not even guaranteed anything if rock weak Pokémon are left behind or you face hyper offense, which is the leading team style at the moment. Until we see more defensive power creep (something like a special variant of intimidate), stealth rock won’t be relevant for the foreseeable future
Oh my god y’all are doing the FSG method for showing game footage, plus TDFW style narration? The competitive pokemon analysis video metagame is truly showing, and I’m loving it
Back in some of the older Regulations, I got Master Ball twice with an offensive Sand Team. It had a Toxic Debris Glimmora with Focus Sash. Sand combined with Toxic chip was surprisingly effective.
With Glimmora, toxic debris was a big deal in Regs A and B. Kleavor and Hisuian Samurott were introduced too late this generation to have a meaningful impact on the meta, but with these kinds of hazard setting moves/abilities I wouldn't be surprised if entry hazards became a staple of early VGC regulations from now on
Entry hazard status moves are probably never going to be super prominent in VGC, but what about moves that set up hazards like Ceaseless Edge or Stone Axe? Would these moves become notorious in VGC because they force damage on the opponent without giving up any pressure?
@@liberalstchenel596This. If Samurott-H were released in a format with no Urshifu, I can almost guarantee it would have seen play. It's stats are good enough where you can justify using both Scarf and AV and it'd probably be fine, and Ceaseless Edge boosted by Sharpness is no joke, it deals good damage and can easily put a ton of pressure on opponents after resolving just once by throwing all their calcs out of the window. If Urshifu were not there to just murder everything and render most Water and Fighting types useless (Urshifu was a mistake), I am confident it would have seen a ton more experimentation
@@liberalstchenel596 I just hate Urshifu man. Can we get a format with no legends? I don't even mind the paradox mons, just no Urshifu or Tornadus and I'll be happy.
The existence of switching in and out reminds me of the weather wars and constant switching back in the early days of VGC, it was not uncommon to see 6 straight turns of switching being done before a single attack being fired. Nowadays the mons are just power crept too much to have that much switching be effective. And back during weather wars switching is just too effective to nullify the existence of a stealth rock turn.
I think the real reason is protect (or AV) is almost always better on pokemon that wants to set rocks. I think in Incineroar meta in 2019, there's a very good reason for something like primal groudon to set rocks against it, but with protect, there's hardly a move slot for it.
A good player took a bad strategy to just barely not make semis at a regional tournament. Every game we saw with Stealth Rocks resulted in the team getting rolled over. Why do I feel like this isn't news?
Toxic spikes require two precious turns to inflict toxic, they don't affect flying or levitating Pokemon and can be absorbed by the opponent's poison types Stealth rock hits anything
Roar was a thing on some teams last generation as anti-trick room haven't really seen it since and Ive been MB on the ladder every regulation. Dragon tail is even less popular than rocks
It just doesn't work, unless you have an extremely bulky Mon with recovery that can justify going for a negative priority move. At that point just play another bulky strategy that lets up be in a better position
Kids skip past stealth rock because it’s largely useless in the story play through where you can over level your opponents team that probably isn’t even a full 6 mons and don’t go on to ever so much as look at competitive formats >.>
My first VO for Pokémon! I hope you guys enjoy and please let us know if you'd like to see more of this type of content!
great video! i’d love more content that’s aimed at casual pokémon players who know nothing about competitive. i’m always trying to get my friends into vgc but they tend to feel overwhelmed by the knowledge required to really enjoy watching
This is awesome! More of these!!
More for sure! I really loved the use of data and to underscore really interesting bits of VGC lore!
This was fun!
Learn how to pronounce meowscarada though lmao
I love these types of informative videos, like FSG and Wolfey's breakdowns of strategy. I still suck at competitive pokemon but it's nice to know what's up.
Mood lol
Oh boy if this ain't me 😅
Every time I get above like 1250 on Showdown I feel like god's gift to competitive Pokémon lmao, even though I'm well aware that's not that high at all
THIS is good pokemon content. Refers to other formats, refers to other videos even, compares VGC to singles in a good way, and is well put together. Good stuff, guys.
love love love this sort of informed comparison of 4v4 doubles w 6v6 singles. puts both into greater perspective.
😂 everytime i see rocks i think 'did they queue into the wrong ladder?' You aint lyin lmao
This is probably the first time Ive seen Stealth rock in vgc. That's kinda smart.
Stealth rocks is actually alright in doubles, its the fact that vgc is 4v4 instead of 6v6 that really brings them down
Makes me wonder whether it's used in 3v3 singles or not.
@@MrCheezesomewhat because singles is still much more oriented around switching. It’s not uncommon to have a Pokémon dedicated to getting multiple hazards in 3v3. But the typical “hazard war” you’d see in 6v6 singles isn’t really a thing in 3v3 afaik.
great video!! this team was so much fun to play, and i'm so happy to see that it's being remembered, especially in such a positive light. the final point is perfect, it's always important to try and find new ways to succeed that your opponents may not have considered. the sheer number of potentially viable strategies is one of the things i love about mons.
The Agency approves of the Rocks click,,, want that chip for the shamone
I was yelling about rocks last generation, between all the Fake Out, U-Turn, and Parting Shots being thrown around, Stealth Rock had such great potential for a ton of damage.
Sr gonna pop off when the angry cat comes back
@@jimtsap04 and it’s weak to them? Will we see Boots in VGC?
@@maxspecs likely not because hazards are just so much more rare than singles, but that just make them that much more effective as a surprise tool against teams weak to them like with incineroar that loves to constantly switch it
Yeah but stealth rock has multiple issues despite all that. Like the video said, VGC is a much faster metagame. What does that mean? Well, when looking at the current format, most games aren’t even lasting 12 turns because the power level is so high. Other issues of stealth rock are the fact that you need to run a Pokémon that has it, justify a move slot to run a move that may be completely worthless rather than a coverage/support move and, lastly, spending an entire turn to set it facing against two Pokémon who can double the rocker and get an easy KO. Obviously, there is much more nuance into what I said but when some of the best performing Pokémon, Pokémon like iron hands, flutter mane, and broken rapid strike urshifu, aren’t even weak to stealth rock, it makes it even more damning to ever use or waste a move slot on it. On top of all of this, VGC is a 4v4, not a 6v6. So you’re not even guaranteed anything if rock weak Pokémon are left behind or you face hyper offense, which is the leading team style at the moment. Until we see more defensive power creep (something like a special variant of intimidate), stealth rock won’t be relevant for the foreseeable future
6:17 I remember that set. Poor Luka got hit with like 3 or 4 Fissures that set, and I think Fiona only missed like 1. Was crazy to watch
Hearing walt in a pokemon video was a jolt, but a good one. Always a treat to see him. :)
Great informative video. Not enough people talk about the interesting differences between singles and doubles formats like you did at the beginning.
Fantastic video! The story telling was professional and kept me watching.
I love seeing stealth rock from my opponent in doubles, it’s never scary to face to me , and feels like a wasted move when the game is so offensive
Stealth rock is pretty relevant in Doubles. Even offensive games you have to go through 6 Mons.
@@ProfessorThinker-zv5vt mostly you dont since most doubles games are vgc style
@@ProfessorThinker-zv5vt vgc is the official format though, switching is rlly detrimental for the most part in that meta
@@leaffinite2001 No, Doubles games are in Doubles format. VGC refers to official games playing in the VGC circuit.
@@2im36 Switching is not detrimental. It's a key skill to pivot around through good switches.
Oh my god y’all are doing the FSG method for showing game footage, plus TDFW style narration? The competitive pokemon analysis video metagame is truly showing, and I’m loving it
This was really well written and researched. Kudos
Back in some of the older Regulations, I got Master Ball twice with an offensive Sand Team. It had a Toxic Debris Glimmora with Focus Sash. Sand combined with Toxic chip was surprisingly effective.
With Glimmora, toxic debris was a big deal in Regs A and B. Kleavor and Hisuian Samurott were introduced too late this generation to have a meaningful impact on the meta, but with these kinds of hazard setting moves/abilities I wouldn't be surprised if entry hazards became a staple of early VGC regulations from now on
Turn down for Walt really is doing the most. Good for him putting in the work
When inciroar going to be everywhere in vgc next format, I'm going to use klevor. It sets up rocks and can ko inci
Entry hazard status moves are probably never going to be super prominent in VGC, but what about moves that set up hazards like Ceaseless Edge or Stone Axe? Would these moves become notorious in VGC because they force damage on the opponent without giving up any pressure?
Maybe if they were on better Pokémon, but it's hard to justify using Samurott H over Urshifu or Ogerpon Water.
@@Endershock1678 what's shocking is that they aren't bad, but urshifu is urshifu
There were teams that attempted to utilise those moves but none of them made any significant tournament result to prove anything has changed
@@liberalstchenel596This.
If Samurott-H were released in a format with no Urshifu, I can almost guarantee it would have seen play. It's stats are good enough where you can justify using both Scarf and AV and it'd probably be fine, and Ceaseless Edge boosted by Sharpness is no joke, it deals good damage and can easily put a ton of pressure on opponents after resolving just once by throwing all their calcs out of the window.
If Urshifu were not there to just murder everything and render most Water and Fighting types useless (Urshifu was a mistake), I am confident it would have seen a ton more experimentation
@@liberalstchenel596 I just hate Urshifu man. Can we get a format with no legends? I don't even mind the paradox mons, just no Urshifu or Tornadus and I'll be happy.
The existence of switching in and out reminds me of the weather wars and constant switching back in the early days of VGC, it was not uncommon to see 6 straight turns of switching being done before a single attack being fired. Nowadays the mons are just power crept too much to have that much switching be effective. And back during weather wars switching is just too effective to nullify the existence of a stealth rock turn.
Switching a lot was always extremely disadvantageous in VGC
This thumbnail was amazing
Yo this thumbnail is so cool
I think the real reason is protect (or AV) is almost always better on pokemon that wants to set rocks. I think in Incineroar meta in 2019, there's a very good reason for something like primal groudon to set rocks against it, but with protect, there's hardly a move slot for it.
A good player took a bad strategy to just barely not make semis at a regional tournament. Every game we saw with Stealth Rocks resulted in the team getting rolled over. Why do I feel like this isn't news?
I'm pretty sure that 2009 World's had Stealth Rocks used in the Finals
Sneaky Pebbles are here forever
Got me fucked clicking on a random video and hearing walt
Singles will always prevail. After all, even in vgc, there is at least one Pokémon on the field vs another Pokémon on the field.
Sick
I like stone axe or glimmoras affect better, the pace of the game is so much faster than it used to be
Can Toxic Spikes add as much as Stealth Rock? They auto poison the Pokemon who switches!
Toxic spikes require two precious turns to inflict toxic, they don't affect flying or levitating Pokemon and can be absorbed by the opponent's poison types
Stealth rock hits anything
I had no idea Fort Wayne had a pokemon championship. It's Fort Wayne, Indiana, right?
thanks!
Who's the artist of that amazing thumbnail?
I love turndownforwalt :)
No, most people ignore stealth rocks because its practically useless in the standard game. Opponents dont even switch out for that part.
I tried this out briefly when charizard y was a thing. Then i realized tera rock greninja works better
So much more of this please!!!
More food for a stealth rock nerf
bro where’d you find that art in the thumbnail
This title makes no sense to people who play singles.
This was good
So...the only footage we have of this strategy is it hard losing and being the single reason for the loss as well?
what about sticky web?
give us another routelocke🙏
keep your dirty singles rocks out of the game i love 😩
Nails don’t play around
In official singles 3v3 rocks aren’t very good either.
Whoever made this thumbnail needs a something
A donut maybe
Now vgc will just become Ou
Does dragon tail or roar work in vgc? I wonder if anyone has spammed dragon tail stealth rocks
Roar was a thing on some teams last generation as anti-trick room haven't really seen it since and Ive been MB on the ladder every regulation. Dragon tail is even less popular than rocks
It just doesn't work, unless you have an extremely bulky Mon with recovery that can justify going for a negative priority move.
At that point just play another bulky strategy that lets up be in a better position
Super gd thumbail
Protect is the most important move in the game….when used successfully 💯
And when urshifu is banned
@@unknown443-dr1qg nah facts bro😂😂😂
@@unknown443-dr1qg Urshifu runs Protect. Even with Urshifu around, you carry Protect.
… okay,
Urshifu used Protect!
I love the video but - and I can't believe I as a Wolfey subscriber am saying this - I hate the way you pronounce "Meowscarada".
Kids skip past stealth rock because it’s largely useless in the story play through where you can over level your opponents team that probably isn’t even a full 6 mons and don’t go on to ever so much as look at competitive formats >.>
Cool video and all, but I really can't stand VGC, there's literally nothing worse than a format that only has one team style.