LOVE everything here! One thing I would like to note are spell books. I like having magic learnable from the world and setting itself outside of the leveling structure. While it’s good for gating spell power, I feel that variety should be cast open, with the limit being one’s taste for adventure, exploring, and learning. Perhaps it’s a feat to unlock that has some semi-restricted ways to learn spells and features preparation, while spells you intrinsically learn are always prepped. This way one can flavor their spellcaster however they wish! One is a natural born prodigy that sticks to what they can learn and master by their own power and wit, others learn strictly through scholarly work and learning, while others born with the power decide to augment it with dedicated instruction to better control their magic and the world around them! Or perhaps they’re akin to holy texts that instructs the faithful to chant prayers for divine interventions. Plus perhaps it starts off as a variation of the ritual casting feat in 5e and later evolves to encompassing full spellcasting so that early progression isn’t too extreme! It could also tie into the crafting tree for books and scrolls, or is even a part of that skill tree as supposed to the main combat one?! 😮 I’ll leave it at that and I CANNOT WAIT for the followup videos!
Absolutely Brilliant suggestions! Love love love these! And so glad you enjoy the skill tree 🥰 Will definately try to work in some way to "learn" spells too! Very cool suggestions
@@TheUglyGoblin I am so glad my idea sparked your interest! One reason I love this form of casting is that it makes rp & exploration utility spells MUCH easier to take as compared to combat ones! Whenever I play a non-Tasha’s sorcerer I feel SO restricted by their lack of spells known, while bard’s higher cap is only “helped” by its restriction to utility spells rather than combat ones. Whenever I DM I actually have an expanded sorcerer spell feature for all other subclasses for this EXPRESS purpose, plus I allow for learning spells as downtime (restricted to utility and/or having a teacher with lots of time needed, as well as spell level). I even have plans for a 5e version of Pathfinder 1E’s Archanist class that combines wizard and sorcerer either as a class or subclass for one or both classes, but sorcerer seems most appropriate for it when you consider Scribe already has some overlap. And between it and Warlock (since this was an original plan for the class indev) I have some idea of making it choose between INT and CHA as spellcasting options at level 1 both for flavor and so wizards and sorcerers get fun multiclassing other classes enjoy.
@@TheUglyGoblin On the topic of suggestions, I think it might be good to have some kind of flatline HP progression as well, so that you are never killed in one hit if you never put any LP into the +5 HP option. Maybe make it so that regardless of what you spend your LP on, you get 1d4 + CON HP at every level, but then you can spend LP to get +5 HP. Or it could be like Skyrim, where every level you can choose a free upgrade to either HP, Stamina, or Mana.
My man just created a whoel ass new game but still calls it D&D. You should absolutely keep cooking and turn this into its own thing because it all sounds amazing!
@@rommdan2716are there actual skill trees in there? I actually do not know any ttrpg that does these weblike skill trees, like the ones found in some video games. Most classless systems don't interconnect their skills/talents/perks that much.
@@coldstream11 Because someone wants to try it out, and make it in their own way. Sometimes also because they don't know about the games that actually do that already, or the ones that they do know exist, don't actually do it in a way that works for them.
Haha Almost :3 And thank you so so much 🥰 I've played lots of new systems and I dunno- they do seriously lack the Monopoly on Monsters that D&D has. To catch up with the vast amount it has (not even taking into account the 3rd party content) would take so long! So I kinda veered away from making this its own thing I really appreciate this comment 🥰
@@TheUglyGoblin Yeah, I've been making an entire system from scratch, and I know what you mean. But, I think I've got the monster problem sorted. Like... Really well. At the very least, it would be possible to have a Red Dragon that also happens to be a highly skilled Thief. I mean, could you imagine an Ancient Red Dragon sneaking up on an adventuring party, only to then bellow: "Sneak Attack"? Now THAT would be a set piece of a fight!
an idea i always wanted to see was a silent rage . Rage isn't always for the big and bulky , it isn't always something that's on your face but can be a preesure in your soul . i think a silent rage wouldn't increase your physicals but allow you to gain bounces when spell casting but loses access to higher level spells .
@@TheUglyGoblin thanks i was thinking that with the raw creativity possible with the system. How could you connect smilingly opposite classes in dnd5e. Wizard and barbarian
I apologize for this wall. It will happen again. I had a similar thought. My attempt to address this, half-baked-yet-already-over-designed as it currently is, is a much broader, more archetypal definition of "Rage Types," All designed to provide some universal benefits, in addition to unique benefits & limitations unto themselves. The classical Barbarian Rage is either referred to as such, or something that conveys the same point, like "Furious Rage," "Barbaric Frenzy," etc., & functions as you would imagine it to: deal extra damage, take reduced damage, can't cast spells or be "smart," etc. I have a couple other Rage Types in mind currently. One is "Hyper-Fixation," which, instead of preventing you from casting spells or doing "smart" things outright, simply forces you to focus on the target of your obsession: essentially you're inflicting a taunt on yourself to fight That One Guy in Particular better. The buff to damage dealt is increased to compensate for the taunt, you get either additional move speed or can dash as a bonus action, provided you only move towards your target (& Opportunity Attacks may have disadvantage against you), & if you affect your target with any damaging ability, be it a weapon attack, a spell, an item, etc., you get to inflict one additional weapon attack on them as part of that action. I'm a little nervous allowing cantrips, given their scaling. Maybe an *unscaled* or non-damaging cantrip could be allowed (I also just realized how terrifying this is with Smite...). However, if someone *other* than your target hits you (even if you resist the damage), you have to make a Concentration Save (haven't worked out the DC yet, but definitely higher than as written) or get snapped out of it & lose your "Rage." The Rage Type for when you want to be the designated Boss handler. Granted, Barbarian already kind of is that, maybe second to Fighter & Pally, but still (also a moot point in a Classless System). If you want the vibe of just focusing really, *really* damn hard on something specific, or maybe a Rage that's more predatory than primal in its nature, this is meant to achieve that. The second one is even more nebulous, currently: I don't even know what to call it, yet. "Savage Guardian," "Maternal/Paternal Instinct," "Vicious Protector," something to that effect. The general idea for this one is you're a Mama/Papa Bear, your rage is defensive in nature, meant to protect your party first & foremost, the brutalization of your enemies only really happening by happenstance. You're "leashed" to your party, & can't move too far away from any ally (maybe 15-30 feet), unless it's directly towards another ally. I haven't quite worked out the "fail-state" of the Rage, it may automatically end if you end your turn outside your leash range, and/or if you attack an enemy on your turn who didn't trigger any of your reactions between your current turn & your last (reactions explained next), but either of these even alone may be too restrictive in practice. The unique benefits are that once every turn, not once per each of *your* turns, not once per *round,* *once per each turn of combat while you're raging,* you gain an additional reaction, expiring at the end of the turn, that can be used for the following effects: 1; if any of your allies are targeted with any attack, hit or miss, you can move up to twice your move speed towards that ally & make a weapon attack against their attacker if you're in range to do so. This movement provokes opportunity attacks, & if your movement ends in the leash range of your targeted ally, they can roll & heal one of their Hit Die for each attack this reaction resulted in, OA's & your own included, minimum of one Hit Die (yes, this was lifted from the DnD4E Warlord, & may be a bit overtuned for 5E as is). 2; if any of your allies within your leash range fails a saving throw, you can move to interpose yourself between them & the effect, automatically failing it in their stead, moving them 5-feet away if need be, not provoking Opportunity Attacks. If they are still in the AoE, they automatically succeed. If they still take half damage from the effect, they take none. If the effect was a grapple, or anything that requires adjacency, it happens to you instead, hence the "moving your ally away if needed." The mental image of some oh-so clever Hobgoblin or something trying to grab the fragile, dainty wizard so he can't cast spells, only to look up & realize he has a handful of the *very* angry, *VERY* protective, 8-foot tall, Barbarian Team Mom is too damn funny not to try to include. 3; at the beginning of the turn, if you are under the effects of anything requiring a Saving Throw to end, you can make that Saving Throw with Advantage, regardless of how that or any other effect inhibits your action economy. This is to make sure a clever Lich tricking you into taking a Banishment or something for the team isn't an automagical, full-proof, full-combat success. There are probably a couple other Rage Types that could fit in this mold, maybe, as you suggested, a more caster-centric one for example, but these are the only ones I've put any amount of thought into yet.
gurps is actually goated for that. i had a lot of fun min maxing broken characters but i really did appreciate the feeling of being able to create any mish mash i wanted. never played much, but seemed to play decent.
@shisei_EternalAtake I like that gurps characters are the actual character + build, vs dnd where people talk about their characters as race class + backstory. I feel like the way gurps is built kind of forces you to play as your character instead of just plugging into a level whatever paladin
Oh I've heard about GURPS! Mmm I'm hoping that the roleplay and crafting skill trees will really help with making your characters feel less combat focused and have more going on with them :3
This is really cool! Rather than the future of DnD, I’d say is is basically just it’s own TTRPG that uses DnD 5e as a backbone; definitely makes the transition easier
Aw thank you so so much 🥰 Mmm considered making it its own system but, it suddenly becomes a Much bigger job when you do! Esspecially when desiging monsters etc
@@TheUglyGoblin yeah, definitely. I’m making a system right now, but I chose Cairn as the base system to build off of. It’s much simpler overall due to not being as crunchy
I just decided to completely rework my comment Able to buy range, amount of uses, effects, and simultaneous uses. You start with a base range, amount of uses, and only 1 effect, and 1simultaneous effect use. Simultaneous effects require spending an extra use as if you were using multiple auras at the same time. You buy each thing individually after purchasing this bode once (simultaneous effects buy limit is 3 and range is capped too) Effects Detect: bonus to investigation/perception/insight checks made against target(s) in range Debuff: causes the target(s) in range to make saving throws or get a randomly decided debuff Buff: strengthens allies in range with a previously decided buff Healing: Heals allies half the amount you or someone you heal in range Targeting: able to cast spells from a decided point in range i.e. spells that use you as the starting point can start from a place inside your aura range instead like frostbite or ray of frost Elemental: choose damage types equaling up to 5d4 rolled damage applies to targets in range. Can use any damage type combinations they just can't go above 5d4 Obscurfication: acts as a lesser fog cloud in range of aura Regular paladin aura
My one issue with that is that there are just not enough cool monsters xD to catch up with D&Ds superior amount of monsters- it woild jist take years :P
About spells specifically, I always felt that should there be a learning tree as well. For instance, it feels natural that, to know "Major Illusion", one should know "Minor Illusion" first, but as the game is today, it's not mandatory. Some systems possess something like an "elemental" skill that comes as a requirement for spells. Like, "Fire 2 is required for the fireball spell". Specially considering a skill tree scenario, I like this approach as the natural combinations of branches can help you come up with new spells. By having levels in fire and water one could create steam related spels. Also, spells could be acessed from different branches on different levels, like "lightning require (Air 1 + Light 2) or (Fire 3)".
Classless Skill Tree Notes Gaining HP on level up should be mandatory and the Base HP (5) should be counted as Colourless. Clarify that dodging or disengaging as a normal action does not cost stamina, and that anyone can do it. There should be a Greater HP in the physical stats, moving adrenaline down 1, and linking it to Rage and Greater HP (10) Hit dice should just be flat healing in this system. Make sure you have examples for all of the skills in the tree in the next PDF, even if you don't have all your ideas written in it.
Maybe maybe :P Thought about making this its own system, but then you have to make hundreds of monsters to even come close to competing with dnd and that just- doesn't make much sense to me :]
@@TheUglyGoblinnot really.. if what you've made is compatible with 5e's monsters, you can simply lift the 5e monster stats available in the SRD and adjust them to better fit your system. As well, you should drop "compete with D&D" from your vocabulary. The biggest runners-up in the gaming space, MCDM and Critical Role, can't compete with D&D. But in the wake of the OGL situation they, along with smaller games like Shadowdark, have found a supportive audience happy to have an alternative to D&D.
@@TheUglyGoblinNo, he is right. This is not the future of D&D. It's possible to create your own game system, but this is not remotely balanced and will require a lot of play testing across various stages of play. The CLASS is there, in D&D, to help players make characters that are (roughly) equivalent to one another in power and ability. Removing this will automatically unbalance the game, dramatically. Also, ALL aspects of RPGs are Roleplay, even combat. Calling one part of the tree "roleplay" implies that the other areas aren't also roleplay, which is inaccurate. Perhaps it's Social Interaction you're referencing?
I had a DM who allowed sorcerers to rage-cast, also known as overchanneling. Doing so spent WAY more spell slots (entirely decided by the DM) but had extremely powerful effects. I once saw a sorcerer reach out their hand and pinch a high level demon between their fingers. Spent every spell slot they had from 2nd to 5th, but squished the demon like a grape.
One interesting spellweave could be altering the shape of spell AOE's. E.g. you could change a cone to a line or a circle Another one could be delaying the effect of a spell A neat summoning ability could be "live ammo" in which you can launch summons using ranged weapons kinda like the Stranger from Oddworld.
There's a section in the dmg called "Adjudicating Area of Effects," and it was intended to help dms with theatre of the mind fights, but it's actually a good way of converting one spell shape to another.
Invest everything into mana to cast a 9th level spell super early? You know what that means right? Darkness blacker than black and darker than dark, I beseech thee, combine with my deep crimson. The time of awakening cometh. Justice, fallen upon the infallible boundary, appear now as an intangible distortions! I desire for my torrent of power a destructive force: a destructive force without equal! Return all creation to cinders, and come frome the abyss! EXPLOSION!
Yeah, being able to reach one cast of Delayed Blast Fireball per day should totally be doable at a pretty low level, but getting to cast Meteor Swarm needs to take at least half a season of a additional training to achieve.
@@TheUglyGoblin It very well could be. Considering all the other independent creators starting their own systems, I wouldn't be surprised if you went forward with this. Btw, this reminds me heavily of the skill tree in FFX.
I would add a few things. For those who want to be tried down to a class I would give them a 10% class bonus for their class skills, and abilities. Because those who pick no class won't have any bonus stats points after leveling up. They need to find a way to bridge the gap with items, alchemy, train your body and you could even eat a special fruit, absorb special crystals or gem and learn some techniques that could give you an upgrade to your stats. I would even allow learning other races racial abilities and skills after becoming friends and earning their respect with that race. After you have the right requirements for the skills and abilities you want to learn. You need to learn how to master those skills or spells that you acquired. After mastering the skill you can level it up.
Before I even watch this, I just want to say I already agree lol. In a recent-ish campaign we decided to use skilltrees and it was probably the most customizable and Userfriendly experience I've had playing D&D thus far.I think skill trees are the best for people (Like me) that want to use a spellsword/half mage half swordfighter. One of the coolest ideas thought of by this community
It’s been said countless times in this comment section but I’ll say it again: TURN THIS INTO YOUR OWN GAME! It’s not D&D5E anymore! You’re still here for the monsters? Thanks to the OGL not changing for D&D5E, you can just say it uses the D20 system (like Pathfinder) and WOTC CANNOT LEGALLY TOUCH YOU. DO IT! FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS, YOU ANIME LOVING INTERNET WEIRDO!
@@TheUglyGoblin Some are trademarked or copyrighted, like Mind Flayers, Beholders, Gith, and Displacer Beast. But obviously, can't copyright the concept of a dragon (even if I'm sure multiple companies have tried to do so before). Mainly, it's the names more than the stats, even if said names exclude those stats from being in the SRD. So, really, depends how much you love saying that creature you just ran into is an Umber Hulk or a Yuan-ti instead of saying a monstrous confusing bug thing of some other name you came up with or a snake person. If it's going to all be free homebrew anyway, splitting it into its own system is a totally optional step to take.
@@TheUglyGoblin Only if you sell it on DMs Guild. It will be your only option (to use 5E material without "permission") and you'll only get to keep 50% of what you sell it for. But, you do have the right to use any WotC copyright material (and, technically, most other works being sold on DMs Guild) your work if sold only on DMs Guild.
@@claytongriffin3558 At the moment I am simply incubating this whole concept within the system of 5e but do plan to eventually make it its own thing :3
Not really my cup of tea, but I recognize the obvious effort you put behind the design and the video edit. Nicely done! I hope the algorithm treats you well to reach the audience you deserve.
I definitely make players - esp. new ones - focus on backgrounds, to be convincing to me of where they came from & what they are doing. Then the other stuff just fits into context, and they are gtg! My wife & our little surrogate grandson (both noobs) played their backgrounds before moving into character classes. They learned the setting & found opportunities in my world that led them to their classes, and it was a great experience for all of us!
I do that, but it's because I play almost exclusively on Fantasy Grounds and the way the skill proficiencies are assigned, it just makes more sense to start with background. I also find that assigning the ability scores before applying race works better in Fantasy Grounds character creation for 5E.
I do find that skill trees can often be over-whelming. There is a benefit in being able to hop from an advanced skill in one area to an advanced skill in another area, tree permitted. The challenge is that 1) the tree may not permit and 2) if you have the depth of abilities of a system like D&D, then your skill tree becomes humongous and difficult to comprehend. When I designed an RPG for use at my table, I made it modular with complimentary, leveled skills & powers. The skills were straight forward, levels 1-5 five, the higher the number the more likely you are to succeed in using it. The powers could be used like skills, but they could also activated unleash a special game mechanic (sort of like a spell, but it doesn't have to look like a spell in the game). For example, Strike has five levels, and they all stack. So the higher your attack power, the more dice, damage bonuses, and special maneuvers you get to attack. Now if I decided to build it like a skill try, maybe ranks 3 and 5 of the Strike Power would allow you to branch into other powerful effects directly without taking lower levels in that skill... but only particular, closely related powers. Instead, there are about 16 other powers, you have to start each from the beginning, but they are designed to be complimentary, so even a level 1 power can be significant help to someone who has already mastered a power. So, where as the Strike power adds dice to move, the Relocate power adds movement and particular tactical advantages in different types of environments (running, swimming, flying, or teleporting). But even at level one, just getting extra movement can be hugely helpful for someone with Strike 5. It opens up their abilities to hit multiple targets, to chase down opponents, or force opponents to burn up some attack or defense options on movement chasing you down. And you don't have to be a monk class, or follow a special path, it's just useful at level 1. I think there are ways this sort of a la cart, leveled powers might not enforce balance quite like an elaborate skill tree... but in my experience, well-designed complimentary powers manage to simplify while increasing the freedom of the player, and I'll take that trade off.
My favourite classless is ironsworn. You get assets with 1/3 abilities that help you do more damage/progress or collect advantage in situations and you level up the assets to get more from it
@@TheUglyGoblin it’s more pbta inspired instead of dnd. But class is pbta is very class based and ironsworn broke the mould. Also it’s a free game feature complete game. Released a sci fi version and the ships/pirate expansion just released this week with all new assets etc.
@@TheUglyGoblin for subclass abilities, you can make them purchasable by hitting certain nodes along the skill trees and group them by category (or maybe they’re even more flexible than the combined trees and allow characters to essentially “jump” further along into other branches). We can call them “specializations” and they could act like more specialized feats! One thing I’ve been working on is expanding how races work. You start off by take a race as the biological basis for your character. All skills related to that race are rooted purely in their biology. Subraces still exist but are mostly important for choosing between one or two abilities at max and are otherwise mostly for flavor/lore. From there I have a choice called “culture” that is separate from backgrounds. This part is where things for cultural bonuses like weapon training, crafting, or scholastic abilities can be added and are semi-open to most races. I haven’t found a reason to heavily restrict them outside of lore reasons when it comes to things like hermit societies, at worst I could see having a list of options that are granted based on whether or not your character is of the main race that originated the culture, like a human from an elf culture may have different options available due to a lack of innate magic. The Half-races I’m still working on but by making race abilities modular by categories and/or using points I could make a rather flexible system. And this allows one to showcase a variety of cultures in their world at character creation! Elves don’t just have ONE culture, there are MANY! From high societies of magnificent architecture hidden away in magical valleys, to the spiritual tree-sculptors, to hardcore nomadic survivalists, to something wholly original! Maybe your elves are inspired by Catholicism and are deeply religious with outlooks that benefit from their expanded lifespans! Or perhaps they’re far more feylike with noble courts that plays out like one eternally long series of a romantic royal drama! Orcs can be more traditional nomads and/or raiders, or perhaps they trend towards something more agricultural in inspiration with settled lands, farming, lots of ranching, woodsmen, and a complex hunting society! Or go even more out-there and make them an endless caravan of workers, craftsmen, and traders! Goblins can be entirety feral and ruthless monsters that live in destitute camps with their chieftain and his warg pack while they kidnap slaves, or they could be incredibly complex crafters (or full mad scientists) that build amazing clockwork cities! Kobolds may have a society entire revolving around a ruling dragon as monarch, or have a vast system of caves and tunnels to rival the dwarves! Humans can finally be fleshed out by their incredibly vast range of societies from insular and bigoted to entirely cosmopolitan and civic! Dwarves can either be holed up in their mountain cave systems, or have more pastoral life in the hill country as they tend to herds of animals. Or the more religious have mountaintop sanctuaries and monasteries! The possibilities are endless AND contribute more to the game than just set dressing and are ENTIRELY customizable for each setting!
One last thing: for cultures, I also plan to have more generic ones for gameplay reasons so there doesn’t need to be an endless list of unique ones for each individual area. Perhaps these too will be semi-modular in that aspect to fit gameplay needs but it’s still a work in progress atm.
This is a really interesting system, Although i feel like theres something lacking slightly, As theres not too much unique between how players advance if they progress through the same Tree, And seeming not much variance between species, Maybe ontop of the 3 Major Trees of Combat, Roleplay, Skill, And the Tertiary "Setting" Based Tree you suggested. Players could benefit from 2 More Trees? A Unique Tree for each Species allowing you to cultivate the abilities and ideals of your species, and a Focus Tree which would be able to represent a focus on training like a certain class. Allowing you to more quickly get to abilities or unique mechanics that aid you in the type of role you would like to play, and represent your ability to get to them faster, by having that be a role or career you are pursuing exist as a thing you can actually hyper-focus on. With these trees of course probably just being a dozen nodes or less, Representing just how much more focused and unimportant they are, Compared to the wider progression.
Oh that's really interesting! So like, race specific trees? Or are you more thinking of like jobs in FF? Could be interesting for sure! Maybe an option come like 10th level or something?
@@caiodamasiogoncalves3352 oh that's neat :D I actually like the idea of custom races. Was planning to make them but then saw DC20 do a stellar job of it xD
@@TheUglyGoblin Race Specific Trees i think would suite best, Although a perfect option might be something along the lines of a "Personal" Development Tree, Where the initial couple buyable things are decided by race and then the exterior of it is decided by further focuses. Kinda along the lines of Dragon-Quest 11, Where ontop of purely class based progression in the skill-trees, Each character has a set of skills inserted into blank slots available to purchase based on race, background and their focus, wether thats as a charmer, assassin or tank. Of course these should never be as expansive as the actual skill-trees, But having a small bundle of "Race" and "Focus" or "Background" Nodes of 12 or 16 Nodes that get effects and abilities inserted into the mbased off your chosen Race, Background or an exact Focus that is special to them, Could spice up a party quite a bit.
in my campaigns, ive created an entire custom technique creation system. Its based on a character's skills/abilities and allows for a lot of creativity and intricacies. Classes are helpful guidelines, but imo shouldn't be the main aspect of what a person can do.
Oh that's wicked :D Mmmm I think classes have their place, but if you want to be a bit more lucid and have more freedom, I am really having fun with these skill trees :3c
TH-cam is tripping balls once again, the replies are 2 hours older than the original comment. Also yes please give us a link to a google doc, this sounds fucking sick.
So theres some fun in the sphere grid/ skill tree type systems of seeing the paths fill out. Whatever this looks like i hope you leave room for a printable skill tree so we can see what the builds look like on the map.
I just came across this and haven't watched beyond the intro yet - but this is exactly what I was thinking! I've been tossing ideas around in my head for a D&D-like system for a while now, and I knew that classes had to go. I was tossing the idea of generic feats in my head, kind of like Warlock Invocations but expanded out to be the bread and butter of leveling up, and just recently thought I should focus down more in to dedicated skill trees. If I don't just use your stuff directly you best believe I'll be using it as inspiration.
Hey, I also prefer classless system. You are being hella creative. I think you might as well fully commit and make this its own game. You could redesign spells to better integrate with this system and catapult this even further
Really appreciate the comment 🥰 thank you! Although after playing a load of new systems they do all seriously lack the Monopoly on Monsters that D&D has. To catch up with the vast amount it has (not even taking into account the 3rd party content) would take so long! And even then, I don't think it would ever compare
Young Adult Yoda has made a fairly robust advancement scheme that answers some of the problems that have plagued class-based games since the beginning of TTRPGs. Can it be used to create completely useless characters as well as completely broken characters? Of course, it can be abused just like any system. But that’s not the point. The point is to allow any player to play any character concept they can imagine, within a viable framework of rules, and this system certainly works in that regard…as far as I can see in just this one video.
A certain rpg already does something similar to this. At certain level break points (even levels) you get feats you can spend anywhere like other classes or non-class feats.
DC20 has good customization and multi classing that isn't complicated. I'd like to see someone make a character using this system and see if it can be made in DC20.
Genuine question: why do all of this work modding a class based game to turn it into a skill based game, when you can just play a skill based game? At this point, you have pretty much made a new game. Why not just find a new system that better suits your needs for character customization and skill trees?
@@TheUglyGoblin It's losing its edge and becoming bloated. There is an overload of races, sub races, classes, sub classes, languages, spells and books. There is also TH-camrs advocating broken build characters, rule bending etc. Personally I prefer classless systems and skill based progression. If I were to run a new D&D campaign, and that's a big IF, I would used PHB rules only or just run a different system, Worlds without Number, Wicteher Pathfinder or anything else. Adapting monsters and modules for different systems isn't that difficult for the most part.
Seems like a lot of thought and effort went into this system. :D It kinda reminds me of the game system I've been working on for a good while now. Instead of a class tree like yours I've broken the class abilities etc into talent lists, from which you can buy the ones you want with experience points. Spending points on these lists open up more talent lists that further specialize your character. So far, the talents are grouped under specific "class" umbrellas, but I've also considered an alternate where you can pick and choose whichever talent you can affort and meet the requirements of.
While i agree with most of the video . The biggest problem with the video to me is almost every type of character you listed that you wanted to play. Can be played in dnd already. A massive chuck of hit points. There's the barbarian An assassin that's really good at cooking That's a rouge A big fighter that studies alchemy to one day cure their sister Fighter/paladin Artificer. And other things you mentions are things that do not fit in the expected dnd setting so that's why they aren't in the game. Why can you play someone that's just masterfully in medicine without magic. Well not only can you if you just reflavor something but also that's not how the fantasy world of dnd works that's why.
I've had a few players want to play non magical healers and it was only when the dungeon dudes released the apothecary, thay we were finally able to have them play one, and it's been sooo nice
I think you Can play these but not to this extent. Again, if you want to have that fighter alchemist built then you need to do some multitasking and miss out on other things. Where as with the skill tree, that crafting side of things is going to be just something you level up in on the side, along with your regular levelling :3
@@TheUglyGoblin yeah that makes sense and i agree on the merits of a good skill tree. It just feels like some of the examoles of character didn't fully do it justice.
I'm working on my own homebrew system that does this too! The base skill trees are warrior, skill, mage, and psychic feats, but there's other smaller skill trees that you can unlock based on injuries or curses that enemies can inflict on you
@TheUglyGoblin thanks! Yeah it started when I was playing with an injury chart for making different damage types feel distinct by how they can harm you if you take too much of one damage type at once, then I realized that it'd be really cool if a player whose character lost an arm could access a skill tree for using things like a literal phantom limb, or someone who lost their eyes could get cool divination abilities! Or hey, just making prosthetics another kind of mundane equipment also seemed really cool and left room for magical ones
This actually looks pretty similar to a system I'm designing for my own fantasy setting, with the major difference that I ditch leveling up altogether in favor of an ambition system wherein players choose their next skills in advance and then work to achieve the specific prerequisites for those skills.
Great ideas. I love this and will try and run a one-shot or so with my friends. If I had the chance to change something I would have it be the fact you don’t get more HP as you level up unless you buy it. I would simply have everyone have a 1d6+CON hit die per level up, but in the Build-A-Base section give them the option to spend 1 point for a 1d8, or 2 for 1d10, or 3 for 1d12, and then maybe increase the 8 points to 10 (only if it feels absolutely needed.) maybe add a colorless option to improve hit-die as you level up?
I would love to see more to the summon nodes. One that comes to my mind is something that allows your summon to use your node abilities in your place. Leans into the beast trainer aspect.
Oh that's interesting! Kinda sounds like a wildshape though? Which is there too :D could work for sure though if you wanted to run a digimon game haha just have the whole skill tree be used for your summon
Literally developing a TTRPG that's more focused on combat, crafting and exploration (think monster hunter-esk encounters with the fun exploration of Guild Wars 2) and although I have rough "classes" or "archetypes" due to the way the lore and world-building is set up, I wanted to have a system where players could really fine-tune their base role into specifics. This video was a huge help in conceptualizing this, so MUCH thanks! Subscribed!
Aw gosh thank you so so much 🥺 this comment means a lot! There's obviously been some less enthusiastic responses xD but its so nice to hear this from someone 🥰 thank you
Great concept! I can easily relate because I’ve been bending classes & blending versions since the original AD&D. You really have something here & should act quickly to monetize it!
@@TheUglyGoblinWell, I noticed your “…to be continued…” at the end. Perhaps the continuance is an opportunity to sell pdfs, online access, and/or a comprehensive book of the completed system. Such a book could be the subject of a Gofundme or similar project, which can then produce & ship only the books paid for. A pdf could be an easy source for steady incremental income. I’m no kind of expert on this, but something like this might be worthwhile.
@@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046 mmmm thats the plan actually :3 planning on dripping feeding my audience new ideas :3 occassionally sharing some free stuff but yes, eventually want to put it all together as a sourcebook :3
This is sooo coool. I always try to run dnd in more player friendly ways and all. I've also recently started using skill trees, but for upgrading weapons. It's really cool and I'll definetly do more like this and with videos like this it gets so much easier. So thank you Goblin man, very cool!
My man you have outdone yourself!!! Literally my brother and inhave been talking about doing this exact thing for so long.... I am using this in my next campaign I'm sure my players will be happy to.
Me and my fellow Game Master in our ttrpg group are working on our own game system, and this is very reminiscent of our design. We are still doing classes, but we are taking the approach that you can make a highly customized version of your chosen class. We are making talent pools where you have more options for your class than you can actually fit at the max level. You don't follow a skill path or tree. Just take what you want from a wide array of options.
Would love to see a guide/format for taking subclass features or new classes and adding them to the skill trees. Then we can take content from new books and 3rd party sources and add into our skill trees
Debuff arcane bond idea Probably still needs to be balanced *Arcane Bond* : *Deterioration Mage* You spend extra mana to make the opponent do a second spell save check to weaken your opponent(s) hit by your spells for a number of turns based on the amount of extra mana put into a spell *Lingering Damage* : for extra mana you can make your spell's damage type linger on targets hit for extra damage ober time per turn (probably based onthe amount of mana pur in) *Hampering Weakness* : for the price of extra mana you can add a debuff to the opponent(s) from the following; slowing: removes movement speed of target(s) hit by 2d4 multiplied by 5 which movement speeds are removed are decided by either the caster or target depending on who wins a coin flip Weaken: lowers the target(s) damage dice rolled on next attack by 20% (minimum 1 die) Crumble: makes the target more susceptible to damage, taking twice the original damagr on subsequent attacks Blinding: lowers target(s) hit rolls by 1d4 *Vanillafying Curse* : Target can't crit and/or use special actions (if it was regular dnd it would be subclass abilities) i.e. can't use actions that are based around adrenaline, stamina, or spending extra mana to change spell effects (basically the stuff from the spell wrave and summon buffs area)
if you make a point system (stab costs 1 point, action surge costs 5), you can make it even more direct, in a tree you still need to take some unwanted skills
Maybe I'm just a sucker for classless systems, but if this were a kickstarter pitch I'd be the embodiment of the "shut up and take my money" meme. Fantastic work on this, keep it up!
I like the way you think. This looks great, and I'll be reading it soon. Thanks for doing this, and thanks for making it free. I hope you get lots of feedback. This has been needed for a while, I think. I don't play these days, so I can't playtest, tho I'd love to. I could only offer help writing. (I have lots of time.) Looking forward to seeing more about it.
Man, where did you come from?! With a single video, you fu@! up the entire One D&D Season... Your rules are fantastic! I'm gonna one shot this with my group right now! Greetings from Brazil btw!
Regen Cost: 2 LP Option 1: At the start of your turn, you regain 1 hit point for every purchase made in this node. If you take acid or fire damage before your turn, or are incapacitated, you do not gain the benefits of this ability. This effect works slower outside of combat, healing you instead every hour by 10 every point invested in this node. Option 2: Short rest time requirement is halved.
@@TheUglyGoblin If a connection serves progression pathing, don't be shy about using "teleport" nodes that connect to another part of the web/tree if they can't neatly connect without physically overlapping other lines/tracks otherwise Trees can also start from a common "starting line" instead of a neat central circular node, so that the starting point doesn't get crowded.
@@baitposter great advice! I like the idea of patrons and deities being able to gift players a "teleport node" perhaps granting them an ability from a node they don't have yet
@@TheUglyGoblin Could do that Could also be where a profession/skillset has a little bit of mundane common ground with another one _(e.g. medicine and alchemy may have some common ground/overlap for a pharmacist),_ allowing a player to branch into the other discipline a little higher in that other tree. _(Similarly, a chemist can instead spec into poisons, or into creating explosives and incendiary compounds.)_ I'm thinking a tree metaphor can work here: skills/trades/professions are saplings that you nurture as you grow your trees of choice. They're the things your character has invested time in their life in. RuneScape skills with talent trees. Simple, universal attributes like Strength, Agility, and Dexterity can be their own trees of size and costs specific to their relative complexity/time investment/accessibility. _(Perhaps some nodes would have prerequisites? e.g. Blacksmiths require a minimum strength investment? Archers/Bowmen, too.)_ Lumberjacks, blacksmiths, and soldiers all need a measure of strength, but only one also has the combat training to utilize it in that context. The wizardly type has probably invested a fair bit more into a tree or two focused around intellectual/scholarly/academic study and pursuits, both arcane and otherwise, and allocated fewer "time/energy" points towards physical fitness. Another might have a bit in Nobility/Aristocracy to reflect their upbringing and unique social connections. A street urchin would have more street savvy and different social connections.
So much effort was put to this. But it looks awesome! You can probably benefit from having more defensive skills, like "Uncanny Dodge" in D&D, so you have ways to make your character more resilient in interesting way, instead of bumping health. Are we going to see spell tree? But then, magic user will be more interesting then rest... Are we going to see spell, rage and trick trees? It's never enough of trees 😄
I absolutely love this idea! I've been looking for something spicier than just classes and levels and this might be it! I have started to read through your rules and Im loving all of it. I do wonder however for the "Hit Dice" section that I find it odd that a character who specs into physical would replenish more Mana then a mystical character. I would personally would keep green in the middle for both and then keep red and blue where they are for healing hp but swap their values for regenerating mana.
I like the idea of the skill system, and there are systems that do something similar, and i like idea, however i do want to defend classes. There are a couple reasons why classes are handy in ttrpg systems, and why games default to them often (not all there are plenty of different systems). this is not to say "don't play this" but to see from a game design perspective why many games default to classes. First of all simplicity. ttrpg are pretty complex in general, so to understand and ask a player to not only build a character, buy to learn what they choices they have can be a demanding task. it is already difficult to get a grip how the mechanics work for some players. by making classes and giving them descriptions you make the choice smaller, and give better ideas on how characters look and what they can do. it makes also less time consuming to make a character for when a character dies. It also makes it easier to make new concepts or to homebrew Second point is roleplay, for a game like dnd, with a lot of choice on the outset, having classes and archetypes can give inspiration on what to make. if you are new to roleplay, or the game in question, having inspiration and ideas in the form of classes can make it easier to begin or to default back to that if you don't have a solid idea. the classes makes it easier to come up with new concepts since it's easy to pick a unique race/class combo and go from there. It also makes character more distinct from each other by the fact that different classes usually feel different from abilities alone, since you have more specialized sets of skills and abilities, while depending on the players the nodes you will get at the beginning are quite similar, and result in less distinct characters at the beginning and more overlaping abilities. Thirdly is balance. while dnd is not the best example of this, by making classes you can more easily balance what kind of game you have. the more skills you have to more combinations you have and the more difficult to balance it is. more choices is fun, but also more difficult to test, and the results might be skills or combinations that slip through the cracks more easily. If you have classes you can balance classes more easily against each other and you have to consider less stuff (aside from, multiclassing and feats, but technically they are optional rules, and you can play without them). it also makes it easier to design for the party (encounters, magic items, etc) since it's easier to estimate what characters can do and how they progress. Don't get me wrong, this is not the discredit this sytem or dismiss the concept, i like the idea and i think it seems pretty well tought out, and some systems do this or something similar. in fact this system reminds me much of Mutants and masterminds (altough less extreme), a game that i do like to play. While not giving a "Skill tree" it does allow you to spent points on basically everything allowing you to make pretty much anything you like, this is the strength of the system, but also it's weakness because it makes things more complex and making a character is very difficult, and can very easily make the game broken, so there is a lot of work into making the characters and checking with your dm. that's why it also introduced basic archetypes which are basically builds to make the choice easier and less time consuming. maybe this is an idea for this system, to give some example builds?
Mmm I agree :3 haha I love classes and the stories they tell :3 and totally agree with you here 🥰 Really should check out that system too :3 And making some sample builds is a great idea! Like having set paths even sketched out for people to use as a reference :D
Green mage abilities need more utility. Stereotypical druids love assists. Example: Ties that Bind: Any allies within 20ft of you can add your spellcasting ability modifier to their saving throws. Additionally, any enemies have their speed slowed in feet equal to 1d4 + spellcasting modifier. Every 5 levels, add 20’ range and 1d4. The Power of Kinship: For every ally within 20 ft of you, you add 1d4 + spell modifier to one designated saving throw, ability check and attack roll that you make. Also, every enemy within 20’, minus 1d4 + spell modifier to one designated save, skill, or attack.
Saving for later when I'm able to fully invest my attention, but at a glance this sounds like what I've been trying to build for my groups. Complete freedom and customization using skills. Recently been using Fabula Ultima, which still uses classes, but the way they handle skill levels makes it so much faster and cleaner. I think I'm gonna enjoy this later. Will come back after to update my comment. :)
@@TheUglyGoblin Figured I'll simply reply on here than alter my initial comment. Just finished the video and I have to say, I appreciate the amount of effort you've put into this. It is similar to the one that I have been working on for my own games, but instead of doing a simple point buy system like I did, you went and made a whole ass web like FFX, which I honestly love a whole lot more. Not only does that allow for a much more engaging visual appeal to the players, but it also makes it a lot friendlier to branch out and not get focused on only one path and essentially just build a default class. I honestly wish this was the default way for almost all TTRPG systems, but I do understand why they don't. From a design perspective, it is a lot to keep track of for balance in terms of not only players but also for enemies. This method can EASILY get out of hand quick if players know what the interactions are ahead of time, and it would make it almost impossible to keep up with as a DM. But, I don't like balance, I like making my players feel like heroes and allow them to get busted and fight busted BBEGs to see who comes out on top. You did a wonderful job on this, and I agree with a lot of others on here, if you were to take this and mold your own system around it, I would be there 100%. I can see a lot of fun being had in allowing different die sizes in the web instead of only having bonuses to the rolls. Starting out with a d4 and then gaining +2 and then making it 2d4 + 2 and then 1d6 + 2 etc... depending on the branches taken. If you could find a way to smash down the technical nitty-gritty of ability scores either from continuing with the d20 or even doing a d100 and allowing ability score increases within the web, making this into a full blown system of character creation from a Lv.0 starting point could honestly do well in a ton of circles. The only thing I see holding it back from being a top contender would be trying to do something like this on VTTs. I've used Roll20 for a long time and have recently been using Foundry and unless you have a ton of history in programming, I don't think either platform could hold up with keeping track as a web. But in person games? This could turn into a whole session of character creation and building things from the ground up together and make it fun.
@@Jherrick3 Wow! I just wanna say, out of all the comments here, youre the first to actually start convincing me to make this its own system xD Dang! XD And you know I might definately consider it! The biggest thing holding me back is the sheer amount of monsters that d&d provides! It's just- you'll never compare to that. And the 3rd party content out there just makes ot even more fun! That'll always be a tough obstacle, buuuht I could alwayd look into monster skill trees too xD could be a fun way to make yout own monsters in your games. Could definately see that working. And also showing some premade sample monsters too that can easily be editef using the skill trees. Hmmmm
@@TheUglyGoblin While I will never argue the amount of material that DnD has at its disposal, especially in the monster department, a huge chunk of that comes from fans that take the bones of what is there and build outward from it. They have their own, obviously, but the vast majority are from actual myths and historical legends and such - which they don't own. Goblins, Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, Fairies, Dragons... they can't stop anyone from making their own monsters for their own system using them. But - should this be something you do consider doing in truth, the best place to start and focus on is simply how to make characters. If you get that down, you simply reduce the scale for the monsters. THEY are the ones who get "classes" by determining a pre-set path of abilities and skills for their type. Honestly I think using DnD 4th would do that a solid and "tactically acquire" the "Roles" system they had in place for the monsters and every monster in that "Role" will ALL have the same basics. Create maybe 10-20 monsters with that framework, showing how it connects and works, and then let those who use the system take those bones and build whatever they want with it.
@@TheUglyGoblin Hmm if I get time I might read through your things and see how easily I could mod it to Pf2e (or pfftoo) ^_^ One thing that does make things a bit more balanced might be that pfftoo ads your level to anything with proficiency ^_^
I've been working on a few new systems as well not like yours with a lot of freedom but my players are liking them. One base on devil my cry with a combo system and class baised on many of characters and styles, and a devil triggered system/gauge where they roll a D4 to build each turn to a max of 20 but missing an attack will drop it. Another is based off Final fantasy 14 where players once purchasing they can cross class skills and passives some of them. I also changed the leveling system class level to 12 and is exp based and player lvl is milestone based play level gives basic things like more cross class slots in creasing DX roll damage and ability points, when one swaps classes they can relocate ability points the first and it will save the base, and every time they get ability points on lvl up those points will be refunded once for every class. I did this to encourage my players to play multiple classes. One can unlock a new class after there first class reaches lvl 3 to end there training and go into that class proper. I also maid new classes like sword slinger ( gunbreaker) that will allow that player to use gunblades. Each class has a divinity style guage(s) for class actions. This is obviously not all the details and I'm still working on balancing these with my players help but there having a blast with both of these. I'm also looking into to one with a cambat system based off Fear and Hunger with limb targeting and such.
It's what I've been saying for a while. Classes are a way for a designer to limit the players so balance is easier. It's not for the players, it's for the designers. Classless is more fun. I should get back to designing mine
The Thief subclass in BG3 is the perfect example of why TTRPGs need class gating: some abilities are balanced around classes being forced down specific paths. When you move away from that, you end up with a series of mandatory non-choices which unlock power.
If you were to balance it with a skill tree, all you would need to do is push the specific skill further down the skill tree, or far down another branch so players can't buy overpowered abilities immediately; just depends on how you structure the tree, and the specific abilities
I'm always blown away by the acrobatics homebrewers go through to make something more out of D&D. I can see the appeal and ease of a skill tree system, and for that, I commend you. That's a lot of work on your part. I play the 6th Edition of Hero System, which came out as Champions soon after D&D, but opted for a relatively complex point-buy system instead of classes and levels. The result is several hours of character creation (and calculation) to create the precise image someone envisions before ever being told (in other systems) that they can't do that. And for my anti-hand-waving, anti-dice-interpretation, old-school mindset, only GURPS (and slightly less so Savage Worlds) comes close to that level of wish fulfillment. So, I'm coming into this as an outsider. (I stopped GMing AD&D when I was 12, in 1983.) Is there a reason you are investing so much into retooling D&D other than its gateway popularity? The only way I find TH-cam discussions about role-playing is through the lens of D&D mechanics, so I get it. But is D&D your first choice for a TTRPG? I'm not trying to be confrontational. :) We all get to like what we like. Have a great day!
Heya! Thank you so much for your comment (which was so polite by the way :,) I have a heavy respect for polite and well worded comments xD ) Mmm so yes obviously the popularity of 5e D&D is a big draw in. But also after playing so many other systems, i just find myself going back to D&D. It's one of those games I just know inside out and can easily manipulate, because I am so comfortable with it. I have considered making this its own system, but as of right now I don't think I'll be doing that. At least not for awhile anyway. There are a few reasons. I mean the first is soley because of how the workload skyrockets with something like that. But also, even after doing all of that work you still have to compare with so many of the monsters and even (to a lesser extent) the magic items that dnd has. Literally books upon books of creatures that have been designed. And that's not even taking into account the 3rd party content (which I adore.) The dungeon dudes for example are creating such incredible works, exclusively for dnd. I've also observed other creators making their own ttrpgs and I find this is an area they all lack in, that variety of monsters. For now, I think D&D is a good incubation chamber for this concept. And I will work on it with dnd in mind for now. But once its all made, I think it wouldn't be too big of a tast to convert it all over AND an option to use it in dnd will still be there
@TheUglyGoblin Thanks for responding! I'm always concerned that I sound too abrasive without my face to help smooth it over. 😆 Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. It would be a monumental task. It sounds like you've found your spot. Good luck with your project. :)
@@TheUglyGoblin So I took a look at it and now I'm definitely gonna use it and other system mechanics to heavily modify the feel of each campaign I run. It's that useful! At this point it doesn't even resemble D&D anymore
I just wanna say this is so cool but i think it might be better as its own thing also some ideas Skill monkey focused on disarming an opponent (if you fight a master of a certain weapon then just take the weapon away) An illuion and alternation wizard confusing his enemys on whats real an what isnt And a thief that uses potion and traps to the fullioust to get the upper hand (This is just me rambling)
I’m so glad I stumbled across this, take a like and a subscription! If I had money to throw around right now I’d join a kofi/patreon for you as well. I hope you keep up the good work and get to complete the system you’ve built, it already looks amazing so far :)
That's totally fair :3 When I eventually make this into a book I plan to make premade builds/blueprints people can follow as guidelines so they won't feel so overwhelmed
I’m with some previous commenters, I say you are kinda rocking here and may want to simply build a whole standalone system. I would happily support this. WoTC has burned a lot of bridges and this could be the time.
I appreciate it 🥰 buuuut I've played new systems and I dunno- they do seriously lack the Monopoly on Monsters that D&D has. To catch up with the vast amount it has (not even taking into account the 3rd party content) would take so long! You would never truly compare to dnd on that front
@@TheUglyGoblin That’s fair, I get that. Zero pressure on it, I just think you have something potentially game changing here and would love to see you develop it to its full potential. I love D&D and have been playing since the 1st edition in the 80s. That said, it seems that WoTC has cut their own throat by putting the accountants above the designers and players, resulting in a massive loss in enthusiasm and revenue. This could certainly be brilliant as a 3rd party integration into D&D. Tapping into that existing ecosystem clearly has a lot of practical benefits. Perhaps that could even serve as a springboard into your own stand-alone system later. As an example, Matt Colville seems to have threaded this needle. Anyway, well done man. This is a brilliant starting point, looking forward to a play test and ultimately a commercial product. Best of luck with it.
@@buddhaweatherby368 Aw wow thank you so so much! I really appreciate it :3 I mean to have it as it's own system would be insane! But also a lot of work xD But I do love the idea of working with Wizards- that'd be insane xD but I agree with you on their management issues
Have you ever looked at D&D 3.5 feats? They also followed a skill tree of sorts. You might be able to draw some heavy inspiration from there since there is so much material for 3E and 3.5E. It is also structured on a d20 and *relatively* balanced.
I removed classes, stat attributes, and Tolkien races from my game a decade ago... now my homebrew plays kinda like EZD6 except players just learn a level-less feat or a level-less spell each advancement. No HP per level, no spells per day or mana... you progress horizontally, not vertically. Now I'm just working on making the feats, spells, items, monsters, and races more intuitive and unique... worldbuilding stuff. Its amazing how easy and fast a game is to DM when you remove all the compounding math. :')
I love this Idea, I love mechanical tweaking of DnD and this goes way beyond just a tweak! I am wondering why language learning, tools, and instruments are a part of this combat one though. Is it because that more part of the lv 0/colourless root node that will pretty much be the same across the other trees? Also do you gain points in all of the trees or have to decide which tree to go for? DnD leveling seems very combat focused (I've only followed high rollers dnd, haven't played myself beyond a couple sessions years ago) so I'm looking forward to how you make the other trees. Immediately inspired cool character ideas in me, awesome stuff!
Aw I adore this comment 🥰 thank you so much for it! Mmm so in the future you will get different levelling points for each skill tree so as to avoid people only focusing on comabt (which they totally will xD ) instead you will level in all 3 skill trees equally :3 though the amount of level points you get for each one might vary, and the ratio could also be tweaked to favour certain games that maybe might wanna be more roleplay focused or about crafting. As for the colourless nodes in other skill trees they will be a lil different :3 the roleplay will focus on skills and I might also move say- languages to that one
@@TheUglyGoblin haha thank you. Honestly I kind of want to barrage you with questions about the document as I read through it, it just really appeals to the board game mechanic fiend in me. I think there's a typo on page 10 with the reckless rage where it says attacks against you are made at disadvantage as a downside.
@@jaqvvv oh sugar hahaha thank you so much for checking that for me XD yeah that is totally meant to say Advantage XD Awwww hell yeah, well, hop over to the discord if you wanna chat more :D would love to hear your feedback!
A skilltree about relationship, ethos and the like musta be initiated (clerics paladins and anti-pals?) With small bridges to the other trees considering thieves-clerics(Mask-FR etc.) Pallies( paladins and the like) rangies (rangers) and wholecasters (cleric-wizzies)❤❤❤
LOVE everything here! One thing I would like to note are spell books. I like having magic learnable from the world and setting itself outside of the leveling structure. While it’s good for gating spell power, I feel that variety should be cast open, with the limit being one’s taste for adventure, exploring, and learning. Perhaps it’s a feat to unlock that has some semi-restricted ways to learn spells and features preparation, while spells you intrinsically learn are always prepped. This way one can flavor their spellcaster however they wish! One is a natural born prodigy that sticks to what they can learn and master by their own power and wit, others learn strictly through scholarly work and learning, while others born with the power decide to augment it with dedicated instruction to better control their magic and the world around them! Or perhaps they’re akin to holy texts that instructs the faithful to chant prayers for divine interventions. Plus perhaps it starts off as a variation of the ritual casting feat in 5e and later evolves to encompassing full spellcasting so that early progression isn’t too extreme! It could also tie into the crafting tree for books and scrolls, or is even a part of that skill tree as supposed to the main combat one?! 😮
I’ll leave it at that and I CANNOT WAIT for the followup videos!
Absolutely Brilliant suggestions! Love love love these! And so glad you enjoy the skill tree 🥰
Will definately try to work in some way to "learn" spells too! Very cool suggestions
@@TheUglyGoblin I am so glad my idea sparked your interest! One reason I love this form of casting is that it makes rp & exploration utility spells MUCH easier to take as compared to combat ones! Whenever I play a non-Tasha’s sorcerer I feel SO restricted by their lack of spells known, while bard’s higher cap is only “helped” by its restriction to utility spells rather than combat ones. Whenever I DM I actually have an expanded sorcerer spell feature for all other subclasses for this EXPRESS purpose, plus I allow for learning spells as downtime (restricted to utility and/or having a teacher with lots of time needed, as well as spell level). I even have plans for a 5e version of Pathfinder 1E’s Archanist class that combines wizard and sorcerer either as a class or subclass for one or both classes, but sorcerer seems most appropriate for it when you consider Scribe already has some overlap. And between it and Warlock (since this was an original plan for the class indev) I have some idea of making it choose between INT and CHA as spellcasting options at level 1 both for flavor and so wizards and sorcerers get fun multiclassing other classes enjoy.
@@TheUglyGoblin On the topic of suggestions, I think it might be good to have some kind of flatline HP progression as well, so that you are never killed in one hit if you never put any LP into the +5 HP option. Maybe make it so that regardless of what you spend your LP on, you get 1d4 + CON HP at every level, but then you can spend LP to get +5 HP. Or it could be like Skyrim, where every level you can choose a free upgrade to either HP, Stamina, or Mana.
@@TheEpicRandomGuy99 I get ehat you're saying- but also- how funny is it for someone to have no hp xD I mean- that's a choice right there xD
@@TheUglyGoblin Youre not wrong there lol
My man just created a whoel ass new game but still calls it D&D. You should absolutely keep cooking and turn this into its own thing because it all sounds amazing!
I mean, this is basically Savage Worlds
@@rommdan2716are there actual skill trees in there?
I actually do not know any ttrpg that does these weblike skill trees, like the ones found in some video games.
Most classless systems don't interconnect their skills/talents/perks that much.
@@felixheitzer2262 Conan the 2d20 rpg has a talent tree
I was thinking the same. Why make this D&D at all? Just leave that game alone, there are other ttrpgs...
It's not even new. Other TTRPGs have been there and done that.
With the number of changes here, this is almost its own system. I gotta say, it's pretty cool.
Omg there are so many games that do this… why reinvent the wheel?
@@coldstream11 Because someone wants to try it out, and make it in their own way. Sometimes also because they don't know about the games that actually do that already, or the ones that they do know exist, don't actually do it in a way that works for them.
Haha Almost :3
And thank you so so much 🥰
I've played lots of new systems and I dunno- they do seriously lack the Monopoly on Monsters that D&D has.
To catch up with the vast amount it has (not even taking into account the 3rd party content) would take so long! So I kinda veered away from making this its own thing
I really appreciate this comment 🥰
Aw thank you so much for defending me 🥺
@@TheUglyGoblin Yeah, I've been making an entire system from scratch, and I know what you mean.
But, I think I've got the monster problem sorted. Like... Really well.
At the very least, it would be possible to have a Red Dragon that also happens to be a highly skilled Thief. I mean, could you imagine an Ancient Red Dragon sneaking up on an adventuring party, only to then bellow: "Sneak Attack"?
Now THAT would be a set piece of a fight!
an idea i always wanted to see was a silent rage . Rage isn't always for the big and bulky , it isn't always something that's on your face but can be a preesure in your soul . i think a silent rage wouldn't increase your physicals but allow you to gain bounces when spell casting but loses access to higher level spells .
Oooooh this is soooo so cool :D
@@TheUglyGoblin thanks i was thinking that with the raw creativity possible with the system. How could you connect smilingly opposite classes in dnd5e. Wizard and barbarian
I apologize for this wall. It will happen again.
I had a similar thought. My attempt to address this, half-baked-yet-already-over-designed as it currently is, is a much broader, more archetypal definition of "Rage Types," All designed to provide some universal benefits, in addition to unique benefits & limitations unto themselves. The classical Barbarian Rage is either referred to as such, or something that conveys the same point, like "Furious Rage," "Barbaric Frenzy," etc., & functions as you would imagine it to: deal extra damage, take reduced damage, can't cast spells or be "smart," etc.
I have a couple other Rage Types in mind currently. One is "Hyper-Fixation," which, instead of preventing you from casting spells or doing "smart" things outright, simply forces you to focus on the target of your obsession: essentially you're inflicting a taunt on yourself to fight That One Guy in Particular better. The buff to damage dealt is increased to compensate for the taunt, you get either additional move speed or can dash as a bonus action, provided you only move towards your target (& Opportunity Attacks may have disadvantage against you), & if you affect your target with any damaging ability, be it a weapon attack, a spell, an item, etc., you get to inflict one additional weapon attack on them as part of that action. I'm a little nervous allowing cantrips, given their scaling. Maybe an *unscaled* or non-damaging cantrip could be allowed (I also just realized how terrifying this is with Smite...).
However, if someone *other* than your target hits you (even if you resist the damage), you have to make a Concentration Save (haven't worked out the DC yet, but definitely higher than as written) or get snapped out of it & lose your "Rage." The Rage Type for when you want to be the designated Boss handler. Granted, Barbarian already kind of is that, maybe second to Fighter & Pally, but still (also a moot point in a Classless System). If you want the vibe of just focusing really, *really* damn hard on something specific, or maybe a Rage that's more predatory than primal in its nature, this is meant to achieve that.
The second one is even more nebulous, currently: I don't even know what to call it, yet. "Savage Guardian," "Maternal/Paternal Instinct," "Vicious Protector," something to that effect. The general idea for this one is you're a Mama/Papa Bear, your rage is defensive in nature, meant to protect your party first & foremost, the brutalization of your enemies only really happening by happenstance. You're "leashed" to your party, & can't move too far away from any ally (maybe 15-30 feet), unless it's directly towards another ally. I haven't quite worked out the "fail-state" of the Rage, it may automatically end if you end your turn outside your leash range, and/or if you attack an enemy on your turn who didn't trigger any of your reactions between your current turn & your last (reactions explained next), but either of these even alone may be too restrictive in practice.
The unique benefits are that once every turn, not once per each of *your* turns, not once per *round,* *once per each turn of combat while you're raging,* you gain an additional reaction, expiring at the end of the turn, that can be used for the following effects:
1; if any of your allies are targeted with any attack, hit or miss, you can move up to twice your move speed towards that ally & make a weapon attack against their attacker if you're in range to do so. This movement provokes opportunity attacks, & if your movement ends in the leash range of your targeted ally, they can roll & heal one of their Hit Die for each attack this reaction resulted in, OA's & your own included, minimum of one Hit Die (yes, this was lifted from the DnD4E Warlord, & may be a bit overtuned for 5E as is).
2; if any of your allies within your leash range fails a saving throw, you can move to interpose yourself between them & the effect, automatically failing it in their stead, moving them 5-feet away if need be, not provoking Opportunity Attacks. If they are still in the AoE, they automatically succeed. If they still take half damage from the effect, they take none. If the effect was a grapple, or anything that requires adjacency, it happens to you instead, hence the "moving your ally away if needed." The mental image of some oh-so clever Hobgoblin or something trying to grab the fragile, dainty wizard so he can't cast spells, only to look up & realize he has a handful of the *very* angry, *VERY* protective, 8-foot tall, Barbarian Team Mom is too damn funny not to try to include.
3; at the beginning of the turn, if you are under the effects of anything requiring a Saving Throw to end, you can make that Saving Throw with Advantage, regardless of how that or any other effect inhibits your action economy. This is to make sure a clever Lich tricking you into taking a Banishment or something for the team isn't an automagical, full-proof, full-combat success.
There are probably a couple other Rage Types that could fit in this mold, maybe, as you suggested, a more caster-centric one for example, but these are the only ones I've put any amount of thought into yet.
I can see a Sorcerer being that way.
@@illTemperedSeaBass wooooah this is some indepth stuff! Really cool ideas here!
It's like crabs, it always just ends up as GURPS
gurps is actually goated for that. i had a lot of fun min maxing broken characters but i really did appreciate the feeling of being able to create any mish mash i wanted. never played much, but seemed to play decent.
@shisei_EternalAtake I like that gurps characters are the actual character + build, vs dnd where people talk about their characters as race class + backstory. I feel like the way gurps is built kind of forces you to play as your character instead of just plugging into a level whatever paladin
Oh I've heard about GURPS!
Mmm I'm hoping that the roleplay and crafting skill trees will really help with making your characters feel less combat focused and have more going on with them :3
GURPS doesn't have talent webs
@@baitposter yeees 😍 zackly! (So proud of my talent webs uwu )
This is really cool! Rather than the future of DnD, I’d say is is basically just it’s own TTRPG that uses DnD 5e as a backbone; definitely makes the transition easier
Aw thank you so so much 🥰
Mmm considered making it its own system but, it suddenly becomes a Much bigger job when you do! Esspecially when desiging monsters etc
@@TheUglyGoblin yeah, definitely. I’m making a system right now, but I chose Cairn as the base system to build off of. It’s much simpler overall due to not being as crunchy
If any version of D&D is the backbone of a "new" system, it is still D&D.
I just decided to completely rework my comment
Able to buy range, amount of uses, effects, and simultaneous uses. You start with a base range, amount of uses, and only 1 effect, and 1simultaneous effect use. Simultaneous effects require spending an extra use as if you were using multiple auras at the same time. You buy each thing individually after purchasing this bode once (simultaneous effects buy limit is 3 and range is capped too)
Effects
Detect: bonus to investigation/perception/insight checks made against target(s) in range
Debuff: causes the target(s) in range to make saving throws or get a randomly decided debuff
Buff: strengthens allies in range with a previously decided buff
Healing: Heals allies half the amount you or someone you heal in range
Targeting: able to cast spells from a decided point in range i.e. spells that use you as the starting point can start from a place inside your aura range instead like frostbite or ray of frost
Elemental: choose damage types equaling up to 5d4 rolled damage applies to targets in range. Can use any damage type combinations they just can't go above 5d4
Obscurfication: acts as a lesser fog cloud in range of aura
Regular paladin aura
Theres actually an elemental weapon node for that :P but this is more akin to a warlocks pact weapon that lets you use mental stats for damage etc
@@TheUglyGoblin sorry reworded it entirely before seeing this because felt messy
Really like this
Bonfire RPG already did this.
@nemovi5379 well I'm sure it has, it's a simple thing to think of
I mean, might as well join the club of “not-D&D” game designers, which is kinda some prestige and delight to see and experience more of on youtube
My one issue with that is that there are just not enough cool monsters xD to catch up with D&Ds superior amount of monsters- it woild jist take years :P
About spells specifically, I always felt that should there be a learning tree as well. For instance, it feels natural that, to know "Major Illusion", one should know "Minor Illusion" first, but as the game is today, it's not mandatory. Some systems possess something like an "elemental" skill that comes as a requirement for spells. Like, "Fire 2 is required for the fireball spell". Specially considering a skill tree scenario, I like this approach as the natural combinations of branches can help you come up with new spells. By having levels in fire and water one could create steam related spels. Also, spells could be acessed from different branches on different levels, like "lightning require (Air 1 + Light 2) or (Fire 3)".
Aaaah this is so damn cool! If I make this its own system- I am 100% doing this!
@@TheUglyGoblin Do eeet
I am a simple man, I love being free.
Hehehe I love this comment xD gave me a big ol smile xD
Classless Skill Tree Notes
Gaining HP on level up should be mandatory and the Base HP (5) should be counted as Colourless.
Clarify that dodging or disengaging as a normal action does not cost stamina, and that anyone can do it.
There should be a Greater HP in the physical stats, moving adrenaline down 1, and linking it to Rage and Greater HP (10)
Hit dice should just be flat healing in this system.
Make sure you have examples for all of the skills in the tree in the next PDF, even if you don't have all your ideas written in it.
Some great advice here! Cheers!
Hope for the best!
Classless skill trees are probably not the future of D&D. Probably the future of competing ttrpgs, though.
Maybe maybe :P
Thought about making this its own system, but then you have to make hundreds of monsters to even come close to competing with dnd and that just- doesn't make much sense to me :]
@@TheUglyGoblinnot really.. if what you've made is compatible with 5e's monsters, you can simply lift the 5e monster stats available in the SRD and adjust them to better fit your system.
As well, you should drop "compete with D&D" from your vocabulary. The biggest runners-up in the gaming space, MCDM and Critical Role, can't compete with D&D. But in the wake of the OGL situation they, along with smaller games like Shadowdark, have found a supportive audience happy to have an alternative to D&D.
@@TheUglyGoblinNo, he is right.
This is not the future of D&D.
It's possible to create your own game system, but this is not remotely balanced and will require a lot of play testing across various stages of play. The CLASS is there, in D&D, to help players make characters that are (roughly) equivalent to one another in power and ability.
Removing this will automatically unbalance the game, dramatically.
Also, ALL aspects of RPGs are Roleplay, even combat. Calling one part of the tree "roleplay" implies that the other areas aren't also roleplay, which is inaccurate. Perhaps it's Social Interaction you're referencing?
Classless skill trees will be Pathfinder 3rd edition
@@russellharrell2747 I doubt it. You're talking about a radical departure from the balance of the game - it is like a totally different system.
I had a DM who allowed sorcerers to rage-cast, also known as overchanneling. Doing so spent WAY more spell slots (entirely decided by the DM) but had extremely powerful effects.
I once saw a sorcerer reach out their hand and pinch a high level demon between their fingers. Spent every spell slot they had from 2nd to 5th, but squished the demon like a grape.
Oh my god that is so fuggin cool 😭😱
One interesting spellweave could be altering the shape of spell AOE's.
E.g. you could change a cone to a line or a circle
Another one could be delaying the effect of a spell
A neat summoning ability could be "live ammo" in which you can launch summons using ranged weapons kinda like the Stranger from Oddworld.
Hahaha oooooh my god xD these are all so good 😱😭 holy smokes
That's so simple but it can alter the game in a huge way THATS AWESOME
There's a section in the dmg called "Adjudicating Area of Effects," and it was intended to help dms with theatre of the mind fights, but it's actually a good way of converting one spell shape to another.
@@ascapedgoat8462 Oh I'll have to check this out
Invest everything into mana to cast a 9th level spell super early? You know what that means right?
Darkness blacker than black and darker than dark,
I beseech thee, combine with my deep crimson.
The time of awakening cometh.
Justice, fallen upon the infallible boundary,
appear now as an intangible distortions!
I desire for my torrent of power a destructive force:
a destructive force without equal!
Return all creation to cinders,
and come frome the abyss!
EXPLOSION!
Based
Yeah, being able to reach one cast of Delayed Blast Fireball per day should totally be doable at a pretty low level, but getting to cast Meteor Swarm needs to take at least half a season of a additional training to achieve.
I love systems like this since you don't feel shoehorned into specific classes and abilities.
Hell yeah! You get it! Haha :D
(There are so many negative comments on this video so I really appreciate this breath of fresh air o_o xD )
Sorry to hear that. I think you did great here. Keep it up
@@TheLunarPierce iz all G haha I got thikk goblin skin XD
I think also they just all want it to be its own system XD
@@TheUglyGoblin It very well could be. Considering all the other independent creators starting their own systems, I wouldn't be surprised if you went forward with this.
Btw, this reminds me heavily of the skill tree in FFX.
@@TheLunarPierce Yeees haha xD took massive inspiration from that :3
I would add a few things. For those who want to be tried down to a class I would give them a 10% class bonus for their class skills, and abilities. Because those who pick no class won't have any bonus stats points after leveling up. They need to find a way to bridge the gap with items, alchemy, train your body and you could even eat a special fruit, absorb special crystals or gem and learn some techniques that could give you an upgrade to your stats. I would even allow learning other races racial abilities and skills after becoming friends and earning their respect with that race. After you have the right requirements for the skills and abilities you want to learn. You need to learn how to master those skills or spells that you acquired. After mastering the skill you can level it up.
Hmmm interesting suggestions!
Before I even watch this, I just want to say I already agree lol. In a recent-ish campaign we decided to use skilltrees and it was probably the most customizable and Userfriendly experience I've had playing D&D thus far.I think skill trees are the best for people (Like me) that want to use a spellsword/half mage half swordfighter. One of the coolest ideas thought of by this community
Which ones did you use I'm looking to find a few and combine em
YES!
Ohmygod! Haha so cool to hear another person has the same thoughts AND that you had such a great experience 😍 aw! Makes me so so happy to hear!
@@NVG444 replying to ask to be notified if this gets answered
Why not play a bladesinger wizzard tho. That's literally mage with a stick that you wanted
@@ДюсековИльяс Because it wasn’t quite what I was looking for. I want to be able to like, infuse spells with my sword. Idk how to describe it.
It’s been said countless times in this comment section but I’ll say it again: TURN THIS INTO YOUR OWN GAME! It’s not D&D5E anymore! You’re still here for the monsters? Thanks to the OGL not changing for D&D5E, you can just say it uses the D20 system (like Pathfinder) and WOTC CANNOT LEGALLY TOUCH YOU. DO IT! FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS, YOU ANIME LOVING INTERNET WEIRDO!
Hahaha anime loving internet weirdo xD
Huh sooo~ I can use all of the statblocks for all of the monsters that exist in dnd already? 👀
@@TheUglyGoblin Some are trademarked or copyrighted, like Mind Flayers, Beholders, Gith, and Displacer Beast. But obviously, can't copyright the concept of a dragon (even if I'm sure multiple companies have tried to do so before). Mainly, it's the names more than the stats, even if said names exclude those stats from being in the SRD. So, really, depends how much you love saying that creature you just ran into is an Umber Hulk or a Yuan-ti instead of saying a monstrous confusing bug thing of some other name you came up with or a snake person.
If it's going to all be free homebrew anyway, splitting it into its own system is a totally optional step to take.
@@TheUglyGoblin Only if you sell it on DMs Guild. It will be your only option (to use 5E material without "permission") and you'll only get to keep 50% of what you sell it for. But, you do have the right to use any WotC copyright material (and, technically, most other works being sold on DMs Guild) your work if sold only on DMs Guild.
@@claytongriffin3558 At the moment I am simply incubating this whole concept within the system of 5e but do plan to eventually make it its own thing :3
I can't imagine the amount of work you had to put in this system. This is nothing short of incredible! I'm excited to see your crafting system!
Aw wow thank you so so much :3 means a lot to hear that 🥰
Not really my cup of tea, but I recognize the obvious effort you put behind the design and the video edit. Nicely done! I hope the algorithm treats you well to reach the audience you deserve.
Haha fair enough :P
Thank you very much 🥰
I actually usually choose/make the background first, when creating characters, not class.
Mmmm ditto :3
I definitely make players - esp. new ones - focus on backgrounds, to be convincing to me of where they came from & what they are doing. Then the other stuff just fits into context, and they are gtg! My wife & our little surrogate grandson (both noobs) played their backgrounds before moving into character classes. They learned the setting & found opportunities in my world that led them to their classes, and it was a great experience for all of us!
I do that, but it's because I play almost exclusively on Fantasy Grounds and the way the skill proficiencies are assigned, it just makes more sense to start with background. I also find that assigning the ability scores before applying race works better in Fantasy Grounds character creation for 5E.
I do find that skill trees can often be over-whelming. There is a benefit in being able to hop from an advanced skill in one area to an advanced skill in another area, tree permitted. The challenge is that 1) the tree may not permit and 2) if you have the depth of abilities of a system like D&D, then your skill tree becomes humongous and difficult to comprehend.
When I designed an RPG for use at my table, I made it modular with complimentary, leveled skills & powers. The skills were straight forward, levels 1-5 five, the higher the number the more likely you are to succeed in using it.
The powers could be used like skills, but they could also activated unleash a special game mechanic (sort of like a spell, but it doesn't have to look like a spell in the game).
For example, Strike has five levels, and they all stack. So the higher your attack power, the more dice, damage bonuses, and special maneuvers you get to attack.
Now if I decided to build it like a skill try, maybe ranks 3 and 5 of the Strike Power would allow you to branch into other powerful effects directly without taking lower levels in that skill... but only particular, closely related powers. Instead, there are about 16 other powers, you have to start each from the beginning, but they are designed to be complimentary, so even a level 1 power can be significant help to someone who has already mastered a power.
So, where as the Strike power adds dice to move, the Relocate power adds movement and particular tactical advantages in different types of environments (running, swimming, flying, or teleporting). But even at level one, just getting extra movement can be hugely helpful for someone with Strike 5. It opens up their abilities to hit multiple targets, to chase down opponents, or force opponents to burn up some attack or defense options on movement chasing you down. And you don't have to be a monk class, or follow a special path, it's just useful at level 1.
I think there are ways this sort of a la cart, leveled powers might not enforce balance quite like an elaborate skill tree... but in my experience, well-designed complimentary powers manage to simplify while increasing the freedom of the player, and I'll take that trade off.
Oh I made those too :D
My favourite classless is ironsworn. You get assets with 1/3 abilities that help you do more damage/progress or collect advantage in situations and you level up the assets to get more from it
Oh :O I'll have to check this out!
@@TheUglyGoblin it’s more pbta inspired instead of dnd. But class is pbta is very class based and ironsworn broke the mould.
Also it’s a free game feature complete game. Released a sci fi version and the ships/pirate expansion just released this week with all new assets etc.
Perhaps with the colorless section you can add some D&D sub class specific ability's like the fighters echo knight or the artificers infusions.
Ooo that is definately a fun idea.
Though infusions will be available in the crafting tree :3
But I like your thinking
@@TheUglyGoblin for subclass abilities, you can make them purchasable by hitting certain nodes along the skill trees and group them by category (or maybe they’re even more flexible than the combined trees and allow characters to essentially “jump” further along into other branches).
We can call them “specializations” and they could act like more specialized feats!
One thing I’ve been working on is expanding how races work. You start off by take a race as the biological basis for your character. All skills related to that race are rooted purely in their biology. Subraces still exist but are mostly important for choosing between one or two abilities at max and are otherwise mostly for flavor/lore. From there I have a choice called “culture” that is separate from backgrounds. This part is where things for cultural bonuses like weapon training, crafting, or scholastic abilities can be added and are semi-open to most races. I haven’t found a reason to heavily restrict them outside of lore reasons when it comes to things like hermit societies, at worst I could see having a list of options that are granted based on whether or not your character is of the main race that originated the culture, like a human from an elf culture may have different options available due to a lack of innate magic. The Half-races I’m still working on but by making race abilities modular by categories and/or using points I could make a rather flexible system.
And this allows one to showcase a variety of cultures in their world at character creation! Elves don’t just have ONE culture, there are MANY! From high societies of magnificent architecture hidden away in magical valleys, to the spiritual tree-sculptors, to hardcore nomadic survivalists, to something wholly original! Maybe your elves are inspired by Catholicism and are deeply religious with outlooks that benefit from their expanded lifespans! Or perhaps they’re far more feylike with noble courts that plays out like one eternally long series of a romantic royal drama!
Orcs can be more traditional nomads and/or raiders, or perhaps they trend towards something more agricultural in inspiration with settled lands, farming, lots of ranching, woodsmen, and a complex hunting society! Or go even more out-there and make them an endless caravan of workers, craftsmen, and traders!
Goblins can be entirety feral and ruthless monsters that live in destitute camps with their chieftain and his warg pack while they kidnap slaves, or they could be incredibly complex crafters (or full mad scientists) that build amazing clockwork cities!
Kobolds may have a society entire revolving around a ruling dragon as monarch, or have a vast system of caves and tunnels to rival the dwarves!
Humans can finally be fleshed out by their incredibly vast range of societies from insular and bigoted to entirely cosmopolitan and civic!
Dwarves can either be holed up in their mountain cave systems, or have more pastoral life in the hill country as they tend to herds of animals. Or the more religious have mountaintop sanctuaries and monasteries!
The possibilities are endless AND contribute more to the game than just set dressing and are ENTIRELY customizable for each setting!
One last thing: for cultures, I also plan to have more generic ones for gameplay reasons so there doesn’t need to be an endless list of unique ones for each individual area. Perhaps these too will be semi-modular in that aspect to fit gameplay needs but it’s still a work in progress atm.
This is a really interesting system, Although i feel like theres something lacking slightly, As theres not too much unique between how players advance if they progress through the same Tree, And seeming not much variance between species, Maybe ontop of the 3 Major Trees of Combat, Roleplay, Skill, And the Tertiary "Setting" Based Tree you suggested.
Players could benefit from 2 More Trees? A Unique Tree for each Species allowing you to cultivate the abilities and ideals of your species, and a Focus Tree which would be able to represent a focus on training like a certain class.
Allowing you to more quickly get to abilities or unique mechanics that aid you in the type of role you would like to play, and represent your ability to get to them faster, by having that be a role or career you are pursuing exist as a thing you can actually hyper-focus on. With these trees of course probably just being a dozen nodes or less, Representing just how much more focused and unimportant they are, Compared to the wider progression.
Oh that's really interesting!
So like, race specific trees? Or are you more thinking of like jobs in FF?
Could be interesting for sure!
Maybe an option come like 10th level or something?
You could look at Pathfinder 2E races for inspiragion (every single race in 2E literally has level up skill trees), if that is what you're going for
@@caiodamasiogoncalves3352 oh that's neat :D I actually like the idea of custom races. Was planning to make them but then saw DC20 do a stellar job of it xD
@@TheUglyGoblin Race Specific Trees i think would suite best, Although a perfect option might be something along the lines of a "Personal" Development Tree, Where the initial couple buyable things are decided by race and then the exterior of it is decided by further focuses.
Kinda along the lines of Dragon-Quest 11, Where ontop of purely class based progression in the skill-trees, Each character has a set of skills inserted into blank slots available to purchase based on race, background and their focus, wether thats as a charmer, assassin or tank.
Of course these should never be as expansive as the actual skill-trees, But having a small bundle of "Race" and "Focus" or "Background" Nodes of 12 or 16 Nodes that get effects and abilities inserted into the mbased off your chosen Race, Background or an exact Focus that is special to them, Could spice up a party quite a bit.
@@chibipotate mmm! Great suggestion!
in my campaigns, ive created an entire custom technique creation system. Its based on a character's skills/abilities and allows for a lot of creativity and intricacies. Classes are helpful guidelines, but imo shouldn't be the main aspect of what a person can do.
Could we get a link tho this!
Oh that's wicked :D
Mmmm I think classes have their place, but if you want to be a bit more lucid and have more freedom, I am really having fun with these skill trees :3c
Oh mine or theirs? :D
TH-cam is tripping balls once again, the replies are 2 hours older than the original comment.
Also yes please give us a link to a google doc, this sounds fucking sick.
@@theultimategodofgaming3200 hahaha xD that’s hilarious
I just wanna say that: THIS MAN IS PAVING THE WAY TO THE FUTURE OF DND right before our eyes
Awhawhaw xD woah! What a compliment 🥺🥺🥺 my gosh that would be something!
There’s no way this isnt a future game after being fleshed out this far
No lol, dnd entire identity is based on classes and what they can do, not skill treea
@@ДюсековИльяс that's why it's the future not the present but we never know
@@TheUglyGoblin Thank you for commenting on my comment
I wish I could afford becoming a patron so bad bruh because i would in a heartbeat
Awww 🥺 that means so much :,3 haha you the best uwu
So theres some fun in the sphere grid/ skill tree type systems of seeing the paths fill out. Whatever this looks like i hope you leave room for a printable skill tree so we can see what the builds look like on the map.
Oh great idea! Really like the idea of drawing some sample paths
Maintaining the agenda is our top priority.
Haha what does this mean o_o xD
I just came across this and haven't watched beyond the intro yet - but this is exactly what I was thinking! I've been tossing ideas around in my head for a D&D-like system for a while now, and I knew that classes had to go. I was tossing the idea of generic feats in my head, kind of like Warlock Invocations but expanded out to be the bread and butter of leveling up, and just recently thought I should focus down more in to dedicated skill trees.
If I don't just use your stuff directly you best believe I'll be using it as inspiration.
Haha wicked :D
Hey, I also prefer classless system. You are being hella creative. I think you might as well fully commit and make this its own game. You could redesign spells to better integrate with this system and catapult this even further
Really appreciate the comment 🥰 thank you!
Although after playing a load of new systems they do all seriously lack the Monopoly on Monsters that D&D has.
To catch up with the vast amount it has (not even taking into account the 3rd party content) would take so long! And even then, I don't think it would ever compare
There is a new game upcoming called Vagabond. It has rules to convert monsters from other systems.
It benefits from its bestiary, 5e and OSR content
@@humblegallipot Oh neat!
Young Adult Yoda has made a fairly robust advancement scheme that answers some of the problems that have plagued class-based games since the beginning of TTRPGs.
Can it be used to create completely useless characters as well as completely broken characters? Of course, it can be abused just like any system. But that’s not the point.
The point is to allow any player to play any character concept they can imagine, within a viable framework of rules, and this system certainly works in that regard…as far as I can see in just this one video.
Yes! PREACH! You saying all the things on my mind :3
Also I ADORE this title of Young Adult Yoda xD
There’s been a bunch of other ‘classless’ TTRPGs, Open Legends being one of them, but they never really took off.
I mean, there's Savage Worlds which is better than 5e in any way concibe by the human mind
@@rommdan2716well unless you want thoughtless and a fun adventure and not a gritty system, cause that's all savage world does
Hence my piggy backing on D&D ;3 they'll never know I'm here >:D heheheh
@@ДюсековИльяс HECK YEAH!!
I mean, Savage Worlds, GURPS, Exalted, Mutants and Masterminds, even World of Darkness
Those are pretty popular classless ttrpgs
I kept reading "Remove glasses" in the thumbnail and thought that's an odd wizard spell let's see where this goes.
Hahaha I love that xD makes me think of Winston or something from overwatch xD
My guy Goblin put in more work than WotC has in the last 10 years
Holy crap xD what a compliment xD wow! Thank you 😅😭
A certain rpg already does something similar to this. At certain level break points (even levels) you get feats you can spend anywhere like other classes or non-class feats.
DC20 has good customization and multi classing that isn't complicated. I'd like to see someone make a character using this system and see if it can be made in DC20.
I'm sure lots do :P
Your content and ideas are amazing 🤩🤩 Can’t wait to try this out
Aw thank you so so much 🥺
And do let me know how it goes! I'm very curious to see how it plays for other people
Add to rage for spellcasting:
Concentrated Rage: While active, any damage taken, any spell requiring concentration does not need to be cast.
Genuine question: why do all of this work modding a class based game to turn it into a skill based game, when you can just play a skill based game? At this point, you have pretty much made a new game. Why not just find a new system that better suits your needs for character customization and skill trees?
Cus skill tree webs are cool and I like dnd
There is likely a Sword and Sorcery ttrpg system that you could play using a D&D lore, module or setting. Don't become fixated on the D&D brand.
@@TheNanoNinja I’ve played dozens of other systems and DnD is the one I like best :3
@@TheUglyGoblin It's losing its edge and becoming bloated. There is an overload of races, sub races, classes, sub classes, languages, spells and books. There is also TH-camrs advocating broken build characters, rule bending etc. Personally I prefer classless systems and skill based progression. If I were to run a new D&D campaign, and that's a big IF, I would used PHB rules only or just run a different system, Worlds without Number, Wicteher Pathfinder or anything else. Adapting monsters and modules for different systems isn't that difficult for the most part.
Dude, you already created a new system @@TheUglyGoblin
Seems like a lot of thought and effort went into this system. :D
It kinda reminds me of the game system I've been working on for a good while now. Instead of a class tree like yours I've broken the class abilities etc into talent lists, from which you can buy the ones you want with experience points. Spending points on these lists open up more talent lists that further specialize your character.
So far, the talents are grouped under specific "class" umbrellas, but I've also considered an alternate where you can pick and choose whichever talent you can affort and meet the requirements of.
Aw neat :3
While i agree with most of the video . The biggest problem with the video to me is almost every type of character you listed that you wanted to play. Can be played in dnd already.
A massive chuck of hit points. There's the barbarian
An assassin that's really good at cooking
That's a rouge
A big fighter that studies alchemy to one day cure their sister
Fighter/paladin Artificer.
And other things you mentions are things that do not fit in the expected dnd setting so that's why they aren't in the game.
Why can you play someone that's just masterfully in medicine without magic. Well not only can you if you just reflavor something but also that's not how the fantasy world of dnd works that's why.
I've had a few players want to play non magical healers and it was only when the dungeon dudes released the apothecary, thay we were finally able to have them play one, and it's been sooo nice
I think you Can play these but not to this extent. Again, if you want to have that fighter alchemist built then you need to do some multitasking and miss out on other things. Where as with the skill tree, that crafting side of things is going to be just something you level up in on the side, along with your regular levelling :3
@@TheUglyGoblin yeah that makes sense and i agree on the merits of a good skill tree. It just feels like some of the examoles of character didn't fully do it justice.
@@justnojustn3036 haha I'll take that :3 mmm could have definately given them a lil more thought xD
You could just say that the Paladins skill are alchemic vials that and instead of regaining spell slots by a long rest they just make new vials
I'm working on my own homebrew system that does this too! The base skill trees are warrior, skill, mage, and psychic feats, but there's other smaller skill trees that you can unlock based on injuries or curses that enemies can inflict on you
Oh I really love the ideas of injuries giving you abilities!
@TheUglyGoblin thanks! Yeah it started when I was playing with an injury chart for making different damage types feel distinct by how they can harm you if you take too much of one damage type at once, then I realized that it'd be really cool if a player whose character lost an arm could access a skill tree for using things like a literal phantom limb, or someone who lost their eyes could get cool divination abilities! Or hey, just making prosthetics another kind of mundane equipment also seemed really cool and left room for magical ones
This actually looks pretty similar to a system I'm designing for my own fantasy setting, with the major difference that I ditch leveling up altogether in favor of an ambition system wherein players choose their next skills in advance and then work to achieve the specific prerequisites for those skills.
Cool :3
Great ideas. I love this and will try and run a one-shot or so with my friends. If I had the chance to change something I would have it be the fact you don’t get more HP as you level up unless you buy it. I would simply have everyone have a 1d6+CON hit die per level up, but in the Build-A-Base section give them the option to spend 1 point for a 1d8, or 2 for 1d10, or 3 for 1d12, and then maybe increase the 8 points to 10 (only if it feels absolutely needed.) maybe add a colorless option to improve hit-die as you level up?
Mmm very interesting suggestions :3
I would love to see more to the summon nodes. One that comes to my mind is something that allows your summon to use your node abilities in your place. Leans into the beast trainer aspect.
Oh that's interesting! Kinda sounds like a wildshape though? Which is there too :D could work for sure though if you wanted to run a digimon game haha just have the whole skill tree be used for your summon
Literally developing a TTRPG that's more focused on combat, crafting and exploration (think monster hunter-esk encounters with the fun exploration of Guild Wars 2) and although I have rough "classes" or "archetypes" due to the way the lore and world-building is set up, I wanted to have a system where players could really fine-tune their base role into specifics. This video was a huge help in conceptualizing this, so MUCH thanks! Subscribed!
Aw wicked! Best of luck with it!
Please, PLEASE continue working on this. This is the coolest thing EVER. Keep up the amazing work!
Aw gosh thank you so so much 🥺 this comment means a lot! There's obviously been some less enthusiastic responses xD but its so nice to hear this from someone 🥰 thank you
Your videos are always amazing, thank you for this inspiering content.
Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see what is next.
Aw gosh this really warmed my heart to read 🥰 thank you so so much
This is the second Pro Skills over classres video ive seen while im working on a Skill based character creation system
Aye nice :D
Great concept! I can easily relate because I’ve been bending classes & blending versions since the original AD&D. You really have something here & should act quickly to monetize it!
Ooo thank you so so much :D
Any idea how best to monetise it :3c
@@TheUglyGoblinWell, I noticed your “…to be continued…” at the end. Perhaps the continuance is an opportunity to sell pdfs, online access, and/or a comprehensive book of the completed system. Such a book could be the subject of a Gofundme or similar project, which can then produce & ship only the books paid for. A pdf could be an easy source for steady incremental income. I’m no kind of expert on this, but something like this might be worthwhile.
@@darktimesatrockymountainhi4046 mmmm thats the plan actually :3 planning on dripping feeding my audience new ideas :3 occassionally sharing some free stuff but yes, eventually want to put it all together as a sourcebook :3
This is amazing, I'll start on implementing a similar system compatible with pf2e.
Oh ho! Damn! Hell yeah 👀
This is sooo coool. I always try to run dnd in more player friendly ways and all. I've also recently started using skill trees, but for upgrading weapons. It's really cool and I'll definetly do more like this and with videos like this it gets so much easier. So thank you Goblin man, very cool!
Aw thank you so much 🥺 so nice to get a comment like this! It means so so much
My man you have outdone yourself!!!
Literally my brother and inhave been talking about doing this exact thing for so long....
I am using this in my next campaign I'm sure my players will be happy to.
Aw wow xD haha thank you so so much
Aaah thats so cool
I'm a little late, but awesome video man! I really wanna use this in a future game. It gives so much customization and I love it!
Hahaha I'd love to test it out a bit more myself to be honest 😅😁
And thank you so much :3
Me and my fellow Game Master in our ttrpg group are working on our own game system, and this is very reminiscent of our design. We are still doing classes, but we are taking the approach that you can make a highly customized version of your chosen class. We are making talent pools where you have more options for your class than you can actually fit at the max level. You don't follow a skill path or tree. Just take what you want from a wide array of options.
Mmm I like that :D
I really NEED tp see this system finished
Oh ho! 😁
Would love to see a guide/format for taking subclass features or new classes and adding them to the skill trees. Then we can take content from new books and 3rd party sources and add into our skill trees
Ooo cool idea
A DMsguild user by the name of DiBastet has a "Classless" Class in 5e that I've used and adapted over the years as well. It's really nice!
Oh fun!
Debuff arcane bond idea
Probably still needs to be balanced
*Arcane Bond* : *Deterioration Mage*
You spend extra mana to make the opponent do a second spell save check to weaken your opponent(s) hit by your spells for a number of turns based on the amount of extra mana put into a spell
*Lingering Damage* : for extra mana you can make your spell's damage type linger on targets hit for extra damage ober time per turn (probably based onthe amount of mana pur in)
*Hampering Weakness* : for the price of extra mana you can add a debuff to the opponent(s) from the following;
slowing: removes movement speed of target(s) hit by 2d4 multiplied by 5 which movement speeds are removed are decided by either the caster or target depending on who wins a coin flip
Weaken: lowers the target(s) damage dice rolled on next attack by 20% (minimum 1 die)
Crumble: makes the target more susceptible to damage, taking twice the original damagr on subsequent attacks
Blinding: lowers target(s) hit rolls by 1d4
*Vanillafying Curse* : Target can't crit and/or use special actions (if it was regular dnd it would be subclass abilities) i.e. can't use actions that are based around adrenaline, stamina, or spending extra mana to change spell effects (basically the stuff from the spell wrave and summon buffs area)
Wicked!!! ❤️🔥
Love the video 10/10 Can't wait for you to finish off the other skill trees.
Aaah thank you so much 🥰
if you make a point system (stab costs 1 point, action surge costs 5), you can make it even more direct, in a tree you still need to take some unwanted skills
That's true :P but I'm a sucker for a gimmick
Maybe I'm just a sucker for classless systems, but if this were a kickstarter pitch I'd be the embodiment of the "shut up and take my money" meme. Fantastic work on this, keep it up!
Hahaha whaaaat xD no waaaay! Aw well then I'll keep that in mind ;3
I like the way you think. This looks great, and I'll be reading it soon. Thanks for doing this, and thanks for making it free. I hope you get lots of feedback. This has been needed for a while, I think. I don't play these days, so I can't playtest, tho I'd love to. I could only offer help writing. (I have lots of time.) Looking forward to seeing more about it.
Aw thank you so so much for your kind words 🥰
Man, where did you come from?! With a single video, you fu@! up the entire One D&D Season... Your rules are fantastic! I'm gonna one shot this with my group right now!
Greetings from Brazil btw!
Hahah I panicked for a second thinking this was anger xD
But thank you so much! Aaah haha so glad you like it :D
@@TheUglyGoblin Sorry for that! I'm still learning the language XD You work is amazing, I'm sharing this to everyone I can!
Regen
Cost: 2 LP
Option 1: At the start of your turn, you regain 1 hit point for every purchase made in this node. If you take acid or fire damage before your turn, or are incapacitated, you do not gain the benefits of this ability. This effect works slower outside of combat, healing you instead every hour by 10 every point invested in this node.
Option 2: Short rest time requirement is halved.
Cool ideas!
The talent web alone makes this worthwhile exploring. Very, very few ttrpgs make use of talent trees/webs
Aw I am so glad you noticed :D I know a lot of other games have branching paths but I love the physical web :D
@@TheUglyGoblin
If a connection serves progression pathing, don't be shy about using "teleport" nodes that connect to another part of the web/tree if they can't neatly connect without physically overlapping other lines/tracks otherwise
Trees can also start from a common "starting line" instead of a neat central circular node, so that the starting point doesn't get crowded.
@@baitposter great advice! I like the idea of patrons and deities being able to gift players a "teleport node" perhaps granting them an ability from a node they don't have yet
@@TheUglyGoblin
Could do that
Could also be where a profession/skillset has a little bit of mundane common ground with another one _(e.g. medicine and alchemy may have some common ground/overlap for a pharmacist),_ allowing a player to branch into the other discipline a little higher in that other tree. _(Similarly, a chemist can instead spec into poisons, or into creating explosives and incendiary compounds.)_
I'm thinking a tree metaphor can work here: skills/trades/professions are saplings that you nurture as you grow your trees of choice. They're the things your character has invested time in their life in. RuneScape skills with talent trees.
Simple, universal attributes like Strength, Agility, and Dexterity can be their own trees of size and costs specific to their relative complexity/time investment/accessibility. _(Perhaps some nodes would have prerequisites? e.g. Blacksmiths require a minimum strength investment? Archers/Bowmen, too.)_ Lumberjacks, blacksmiths, and soldiers all need a measure of strength, but only one also has the combat training to utilize it in that context.
The wizardly type has probably invested a fair bit more into a tree or two focused around intellectual/scholarly/academic study and pursuits, both arcane and otherwise, and allocated fewer "time/energy" points towards physical fitness. Another might have a bit in Nobility/Aristocracy to reflect their upbringing and unique social connections. A street urchin would have more street savvy and different social connections.
So much effort was put to this. But it looks awesome!
You can probably benefit from having more defensive skills, like "Uncanny Dodge" in D&D, so you have ways to make your character more resilient in interesting way, instead of bumping health.
Are we going to see spell tree? But then, magic user will be more interesting then rest... Are we going to see spell, rage and trick trees? It's never enough of trees 😄
Hahaha love this xD love the enthusiasm xD mmm got lotsof plans bit first gotta finish the 3 base skill trees :3
I absolutely love this idea! I've been looking for something spicier than just classes and levels and this might be it! I have started to read through your rules and Im loving all of it. I do wonder however for the "Hit Dice" section that I find it odd that a character who specs into physical would replenish more Mana then a mystical character. I would personally would keep green in the middle for both and then keep red and blue where they are for healing hp but swap their values for regenerating mana.
Aw thank you so so much :3
Haha that's an interesting point! Wonder if there's another solution there, maybe that's less complicated 🧐
I like the idea of the skill system, and there are systems that do something similar, and i like idea, however i do want to defend classes.
There are a couple reasons why classes are handy in ttrpg systems, and why games default to them often (not all there are plenty of different systems). this is not to say "don't play this" but to see from a game design perspective why many games default to classes.
First of all simplicity. ttrpg are pretty complex in general, so to understand and ask a player to not only build a character, buy to learn what they choices they have can be a demanding task.
it is already difficult to get a grip how the mechanics work for some players. by making classes and giving them descriptions you make the choice smaller, and give better ideas on how characters look and what they can do. it makes also less time consuming to make a character for when a character dies. It also makes it easier to make new concepts or to homebrew
Second point is roleplay, for a game like dnd, with a lot of choice on the outset, having classes and archetypes can give inspiration on what to make.
if you are new to roleplay, or the game in question, having inspiration and ideas in the form of classes can make it easier to begin or to default back to that if you don't have a solid idea.
the classes makes it easier to come up with new concepts since it's easy to pick a unique race/class combo and go from there.
It also makes character more distinct from each other by the fact that different classes usually feel different from abilities alone, since you have more specialized sets of skills and abilities, while depending on the players the nodes you will get at the beginning are quite similar, and result in less distinct characters at the beginning and more overlaping abilities.
Thirdly is balance. while dnd is not the best example of this, by making classes you can more easily balance what kind of game you have. the more skills you have to more combinations you have and the more difficult to balance it is. more choices is fun, but also more difficult to test, and the results might be skills or combinations that slip through the cracks more easily. If you have classes you can balance classes more easily against each other and you have to consider less stuff (aside from, multiclassing and feats, but technically they are optional rules, and you can play without them). it also makes it easier to design for the party (encounters, magic items, etc) since it's easier to estimate what characters can do and how they progress.
Don't get me wrong, this is not the discredit this sytem or dismiss the concept, i like the idea and i think it seems pretty well tought out, and some systems do this or something similar.
in fact this system reminds me much of Mutants and masterminds (altough less extreme), a game that i do like to play. While not giving a "Skill tree" it does allow you to spent points on basically everything allowing you to make pretty much anything you like, this is the strength of the system, but also it's weakness because it makes things more complex and making a character is very difficult, and can very easily make the game broken, so there is a lot of work into making the characters and checking with your dm. that's why it also introduced basic archetypes which are basically builds to make the choice easier and less time consuming. maybe this is an idea for this system, to give some example builds?
Mmm I agree :3 haha I love classes and the stories they tell :3 and totally agree with you here 🥰
Really should check out that system too :3
And making some sample builds is a great idea! Like having set paths even sketched out for people to use as a reference :D
Green mage abilities need more utility. Stereotypical druids love assists. Example:
Ties that Bind: Any allies within 20ft of you can add your spellcasting ability modifier to their saving throws. Additionally, any enemies have their speed slowed in feet equal to 1d4 + spellcasting modifier. Every 5 levels, add 20’ range and 1d4.
The Power of Kinship: For every ally within 20 ft of you, you add 1d4 + spell modifier to one designated saving throw, ability check and attack roll that you make. Also, every enemy within 20’, minus 1d4 + spell modifier to one designated save, skill, or attack.
Mmm interesting thoughts
Pathfinder! With more steps! In all reality, this is super cool! Keep it up!
Aw thank you so much :3 appreciate it
@@TheUglyGoblin :3 Skill trees like this are super unique, perhaps a certain gobbo will release a homebrew ruleset making this an official playstyle
@@elt2666 That would be the dream ;3 just need to accumulate a big enough audience for it first. So for now it will incubate with the 5e ruleset
Pathfinder isn’t classless
@@shamanspointofview8083 It was a joke
Saving for later when I'm able to fully invest my attention, but at a glance this sounds like what I've been trying to build for my groups. Complete freedom and customization using skills. Recently been using Fabula Ultima, which still uses classes, but the way they handle skill levels makes it so much faster and cleaner. I think I'm gonna enjoy this later. Will come back after to update my comment. :)
Aw that is so so cool to hear :D made my day! Thank you 🥰
@@TheUglyGoblin Figured I'll simply reply on here than alter my initial comment. Just finished the video and I have to say, I appreciate the amount of effort you've put into this. It is similar to the one that I have been working on for my own games, but instead of doing a simple point buy system like I did, you went and made a whole ass web like FFX, which I honestly love a whole lot more. Not only does that allow for a much more engaging visual appeal to the players, but it also makes it a lot friendlier to branch out and not get focused on only one path and essentially just build a default class.
I honestly wish this was the default way for almost all TTRPG systems, but I do understand why they don't. From a design perspective, it is a lot to keep track of for balance in terms of not only players but also for enemies. This method can EASILY get out of hand quick if players know what the interactions are ahead of time, and it would make it almost impossible to keep up with as a DM. But, I don't like balance, I like making my players feel like heroes and allow them to get busted and fight busted BBEGs to see who comes out on top.
You did a wonderful job on this, and I agree with a lot of others on here, if you were to take this and mold your own system around it, I would be there 100%. I can see a lot of fun being had in allowing different die sizes in the web instead of only having bonuses to the rolls. Starting out with a d4 and then gaining +2 and then making it 2d4 + 2 and then 1d6 + 2 etc... depending on the branches taken. If you could find a way to smash down the technical nitty-gritty of ability scores either from continuing with the d20 or even doing a d100 and allowing ability score increases within the web, making this into a full blown system of character creation from a Lv.0 starting point could honestly do well in a ton of circles.
The only thing I see holding it back from being a top contender would be trying to do something like this on VTTs. I've used Roll20 for a long time and have recently been using Foundry and unless you have a ton of history in programming, I don't think either platform could hold up with keeping track as a web. But in person games? This could turn into a whole session of character creation and building things from the ground up together and make it fun.
@@Jherrick3 Wow! I just wanna say, out of all the comments here, youre the first to actually start convincing me to make this its own system xD
Dang! XD
And you know I might definately consider it!
The biggest thing holding me back is the sheer amount of monsters that d&d provides! It's just- you'll never compare to that. And the 3rd party content out there just makes ot even more fun!
That'll always be a tough obstacle, buuuht I could alwayd look into monster skill trees too xD could be a fun way to make yout own monsters in your games. Could definately see that working. And also showing some premade sample monsters too that can easily be editef using the skill trees. Hmmmm
@@TheUglyGoblin While I will never argue the amount of material that DnD has at its disposal, especially in the monster department, a huge chunk of that comes from fans that take the bones of what is there and build outward from it. They have their own, obviously, but the vast majority are from actual myths and historical legends and such - which they don't own. Goblins, Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, Fairies, Dragons... they can't stop anyone from making their own monsters for their own system using them.
But - should this be something you do consider doing in truth, the best place to start and focus on is simply how to make characters. If you get that down, you simply reduce the scale for the monsters. THEY are the ones who get "classes" by determining a pre-set path of abilities and skills for their type. Honestly I think using DnD 4th would do that a solid and "tactically acquire" the "Roles" system they had in place for the monsters and every monster in that "Role" will ALL have the same basics.
Create maybe 10-20 monsters with that framework, showing how it connects and works, and then let those who use the system take those bones and build whatever they want with it.
I would love to see how this system would convert to Pathfinder 2e due to the bigger freedom of actions in there ^_^
Ooo that could be a vibe
@@TheUglyGoblin also I want more people to play PF2e :P
@@natanoj16 a lot of people who play pathfinder tend to want other people to play pathfinder xD
@@TheUglyGoblin makes sense :P
I love that system waaay too much ^_^
So much Costumizability (but still class based)
@@TheUglyGoblin Hmm if I get time I might read through your things and see how easily I could mod it to Pf2e (or pfftoo) ^_^
One thing that does make things a bit more balanced might be that pfftoo ads your level to anything with proficiency ^_^
Reading the document i could not find descriptions for non-main tree abilities such as heal or smite, but i do like the idea
Mmm like I mentioned in the video :,) haven't gotten to them yet
I've been working on a few new systems as well not like yours with a lot of freedom but my players are liking them. One base on devil my cry with a combo system and class baised on many of characters and styles, and a devil triggered system/gauge where they roll a D4 to build each turn to a max of 20 but missing an attack will drop it. Another is based off Final fantasy 14 where players once purchasing they can cross class skills and passives some of them. I also changed the leveling system class level to 12 and is exp based and player lvl is milestone based play level gives basic things like more cross class slots in creasing DX roll damage and ability points, when one swaps classes they can relocate ability points the first and it will save the base, and every time they get ability points on lvl up those points will be refunded once for every class. I did this to encourage my players to play multiple classes. One can unlock a new class after there first class reaches lvl 3 to end there training and go into that class proper. I also maid new classes like sword slinger ( gunbreaker) that will allow that player to use gunblades. Each class has a divinity style guage(s) for class actions. This is obviously not all the details and I'm still working on balancing these with my players help but there having a blast with both of these. I'm also looking into to one with a cambat system based off Fear and Hunger with limb targeting and such.
Ooo fun!
It's what I've been saying for a while.
Classes are a way for a designer to limit the players so balance is easier.
It's not for the players, it's for the designers.
Classless is more fun.
I should get back to designing mine
Oh fun look on it xD
I´m creating a Classless-leveless game too, with skill trees. It is an amazing improvement.
Oh cool :D
How's that going? :3
Thank you so much
Personally I like having classes more than just skill trees, and I like it even more when there are class advancements.
Mmm that's fair haha a final fantasy 12 fan? :P
I can't with the mischievous gremlin grin
Hahaha xD thank you uwu
The Thief subclass in BG3 is the perfect example of why TTRPGs need class gating: some abilities are balanced around classes being forced down specific paths.
When you move away from that, you end up with a series of mandatory non-choices which unlock power.
We can agree to disagree :P
If you were to balance it with a skill tree, all you would need to do is push the specific skill further down the skill tree, or far down another branch so players can't buy overpowered abilities immediately; just depends on how you structure the tree, and the specific abilities
@@bearmtn7 hell yeah! Absolutely! Can always make it more expensive too!
Brilliant video, going to build off this for my own TTRPG
Aw that is so cool :D
I'm always blown away by the acrobatics homebrewers go through to make something more out of D&D. I can see the appeal and ease of a skill tree system, and for that, I commend you. That's a lot of work on your part.
I play the 6th Edition of Hero System, which came out as Champions soon after D&D, but opted for a relatively complex point-buy system instead of classes and levels. The result is several hours of character creation (and calculation) to create the precise image someone envisions before ever being told (in other systems) that they can't do that. And for my anti-hand-waving, anti-dice-interpretation, old-school mindset, only GURPS (and slightly less so Savage Worlds) comes close to that level of wish fulfillment.
So, I'm coming into this as an outsider. (I stopped GMing AD&D when I was 12, in 1983.) Is there a reason you are investing so much into retooling D&D other than its gateway popularity? The only way I find TH-cam discussions about role-playing is through the lens of D&D mechanics, so I get it. But is D&D your first choice for a TTRPG?
I'm not trying to be confrontational. :) We all get to like what we like. Have a great day!
Heya! Thank you so much for your comment (which was so polite by the way :,) I have a heavy respect for polite and well worded comments xD )
Mmm so yes obviously the popularity of 5e D&D is a big draw in. But also after playing so many other systems, i just find myself going back to D&D. It's one of those games I just know inside out and can easily manipulate, because I am so comfortable with it.
I have considered making this its own system, but as of right now I don't think I'll be doing that. At least not for awhile anyway.
There are a few reasons. I mean the first is soley because of how the workload skyrockets with something like that. But also, even after doing all of that work you still have to compare with so many of the monsters and even (to a lesser extent) the magic items that dnd has. Literally books upon books of creatures that have been designed. And that's not even taking into account the 3rd party content (which I adore.)
The dungeon dudes for example are creating such incredible works, exclusively for dnd.
I've also observed other creators making their own ttrpgs and I find this is an area they all lack in, that variety of monsters.
For now, I think D&D is a good incubation chamber for this concept. And I will work on it with dnd in mind for now. But once its all made, I think it wouldn't be too big of a tast to convert it all over AND an option to use it in dnd will still be there
@TheUglyGoblin Thanks for responding! I'm always concerned that I sound too abrasive without my face to help smooth it over. 😆
Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. It would be a monumental task. It sounds like you've found your spot. Good luck with your project. :)
@@redknight808 thank you so much :3
Mmm for now I'm happy here, dont wanna drown in the deep end yet :P
ARPG game called Wolcen, but impressive amount of work you put in this none the less.
Thank you very much 😁
This is really extensive! I feel weird about the ability to buy nodes multiple times, but I guess you seem to have thought this out pretty well.
I think the ability to purchase things multiple times just adds more customisation and fun builds :3
Also thank you for the comment
The feeling of creating a new ttrpg system like this is why I love these types of games
Awww ditto 🥰
@@TheUglyGoblin So I took a look at it and now I'm definitely gonna use it and other system mechanics to heavily modify the feel of each campaign I run. It's that useful! At this point it doesn't even resemble D&D anymore
@@drasticdaniel4906 Wicked :3 I’ll be releasing a lot more stuff like this later down the line and hope to one day develop it all into its own system
I just wanna say this is so cool but i think it might be better as its own thing also some ideas
Skill monkey focused on disarming an opponent (if you fight a master of a certain weapon then just take the weapon away)
An illuion and alternation wizard confusing his enemys on whats real an what isnt
And a thief that uses potion and traps to the fullioust to get the upper hand
(This is just me rambling)
Aw brilliant ideas :D
I’m so glad I stumbled across this, take a like and a subscription! If I had money to throw around right now I’d join a kofi/patreon for you as well. I hope you keep up the good work and get to complete the system you’ve built, it already looks amazing so far :)
Aw thank you so so much 🥰 really appreciate that!
Mmm >:3 hope I can make something very cool
Non-Magical Healing. That sounds like some Pathfinder 2 Medic Talk right there.
Sure
I tend to feel lost if there are too many options, I'm not sure this would be what I'm looking for
That's totally fair :3
When I eventually make this into a book I plan to make premade builds/blueprints people can follow as guidelines so they won't feel so overwhelmed
Ah GURPS, you’ll live on!
I've looked into Gurps before but it didn't have a sexy web like this one >:3
Its just what i was going to create with my friend today, thank you pretty goblin
Oh have fun :D
I’m with some previous commenters, I say you are kinda rocking here and may want to simply build a whole standalone system. I would happily support this. WoTC has burned a lot of bridges and this could be the time.
I appreciate it 🥰 buuuut
I've played new systems and I dunno- they do seriously lack the Monopoly on Monsters that D&D has.
To catch up with the vast amount it has (not even taking into account the 3rd party content) would take so long!
You would never truly compare to dnd on that front
@@TheUglyGoblin That’s fair, I get that. Zero pressure on it, I just think you have something potentially game changing here and would love to see you develop it to its full potential.
I love D&D and have been playing since the 1st edition in the 80s. That said, it seems that WoTC has cut their own throat by putting the accountants above the designers and players, resulting in a massive loss in enthusiasm and revenue.
This could certainly be brilliant as a 3rd party integration into D&D. Tapping into that existing ecosystem clearly has a lot of practical benefits. Perhaps that could even serve as a springboard into your own stand-alone system later. As an example, Matt Colville seems to have threaded this needle.
Anyway, well done man. This is a brilliant starting point, looking forward to a play test and ultimately a commercial product. Best of luck with it.
@@buddhaweatherby368 Aw wow thank you so so much! I really appreciate it :3 I mean to have it as it's own system would be insane! But also a lot of work xD
But I do love the idea of working with Wizards- that'd be insane xD but I agree with you on their management issues
Have you ever looked at D&D 3.5 feats? They also followed a skill tree of sorts. You might be able to draw some heavy inspiration from there since there is so much material for 3E and 3.5E. It is also structured on a d20 and *relatively* balanced.
Mmm defo need to research it! And pathfinder too :P thank you!
I think that pathfinder solves the initial problem. You can just choose another feat from another class instead of multiclassing.
But does it have a sick web?
I removed classes, stat attributes, and Tolkien races from my game a decade ago... now my homebrew plays kinda like EZD6 except players just learn a level-less feat or a level-less spell each advancement. No HP per level, no spells per day or mana... you progress horizontally, not vertically. Now I'm just working on making the feats, spells, items, monsters, and races more intuitive and unique... worldbuilding stuff.
Its amazing how easy and fast a game is to DM when you remove all the compounding math. :')
Oh that sounds really neat :D
I love this Idea, I love mechanical tweaking of DnD and this goes way beyond just a tweak! I am wondering why language learning, tools, and instruments are a part of this combat one though. Is it because that more part of the lv 0/colourless root node that will pretty much be the same across the other trees? Also do you gain points in all of the trees or have to decide which tree to go for?
DnD leveling seems very combat focused (I've only followed high rollers dnd, haven't played myself beyond a couple sessions years ago) so I'm looking forward to how you make the other trees.
Immediately inspired cool character ideas in me, awesome stuff!
Aw I adore this comment 🥰 thank you so much for it!
Mmm so in the future you will get different levelling points for each skill tree so as to avoid people only focusing on comabt (which they totally will xD ) instead you will level in all 3 skill trees equally :3 though the amount of level points you get for each one might vary, and the ratio could also be tweaked to favour certain games that maybe might wanna be more roleplay focused or about crafting.
As for the colourless nodes in other skill trees they will be a lil different :3 the roleplay will focus on skills and I might also move say- languages to that one
@@TheUglyGoblin haha thank you. Honestly I kind of want to barrage you with questions about the document as I read through it, it just really appeals to the board game mechanic fiend in me. I think there's a typo on page 10 with the reckless rage where it says attacks against you are made at disadvantage as a downside.
@@jaqvvv oh sugar hahaha thank you so much for checking that for me XD yeah that is totally meant to say Advantage XD
Awwww hell yeah, well, hop over to the discord if you wanna chat more :D would love to hear your feedback!
Great ideas! I did something similar with my own ttrpg called Dragonbreaker.
Aw deadly :D and thank you 🥰
A skilltree about relationship, ethos and the like musta be initiated (clerics paladins and anti-pals?) With small bridges to the other trees considering thieves-clerics(Mask-FR etc.) Pallies( paladins and the like) rangies (rangers) and wholecasters (cleric-wizzies)❤❤❤
I'm actually working on a roleplay skill tree that pretty much covers that
@@TheUglyGoblin have you played ff10 or 12 or you are struck on trees by diablo 2 or the diablolike games
@@francescospuntarelli1593 I've played all of the above :3