@@orlandolee4438 why? batman already came out at the end of the show it would be impossible making a show and not have batman come out when he already made his appearance
Yeah he did his fair share of evil shit like killing the people who picked him up, a fisherman just for his sandwich, getting Zsasz to torture Butch into doing his bidding, killing Isabella out of jealousy, killing Gabe for calling him a freak and so on but he did good things too like killing Galavan twice, getting back at his evil step family for killing his dad and abusing him by killing his stepsister and brother, feeding them to his stepmother then killing her too, stopping Jerome from driving the city mad and defending Gotham City from Bane and Nyssa. He made you like him, hate him, feel sorry for him, laugh with him and everything.
It lays the blue prints for the relationship Penguin will have later with Batman. Where they turn blind eye to some things in exchange for info and favors. But the strange friendship Oswald has with Gordon makes it all the more special
Do u also like his relationship with the Riddler??? Thats not just unique, it won't be seen anywhere else but only in this series.. 1st think i thought is What were they thinking??? It was kinda big *surprise* to me *1st time i watched it* i can't forget it in a funny way..
@@renoskous.4425 I love their relationship. Ed and Oswald have no real comic book love interests and that clean relationship slate, to me, makes it more than perfect they love each other. And I am a sucker for villains having a past history to explain why they have tension between them in the future. The whole relationship is just storyline gold
@@lordderp6914 yeah the ending where we find out penguin was put in prison for ten years after penguin came back specifically to help him makes me really not like jim
I feel like this version of The Penguin in Gotham is the best because it's always feels like he was going to lose but he always finds a way out of certain situations along with outsmarting his enemies
Yeah, you can't help but root for him when the odds are against him like that and he comes out on top. This is only helped by Robin Lord Taylor's extremely charismatic performance.
Agreed!!!! Me and my brother have always said “He’s a mix of Draco Malfoy and Gollum” comes off as sophisticated but has a completely wretched side hidden.
@@Loonaticx but I 'm not doing nothing, I'm only saying that is a bit gross saying crusswords😥 However for the comment on I liked too riddler and penguin even before the show😁😁😁
Dude was so distinguishable that I have a hard time calling him The Penguin. In Gotham his character story is so rich that he stands out as Oswald to me. A stand-alone interpretation
As always an absolute pleasure returning to Gotham with you, Mr Vee! This city is where I was born as far as YT is concerned and it feels great to return to my old stomping ground with new friends.
You were indeed the first, as far as I can remember, "Gotham channel" that regularly gave us a platform to discuss the show on youtube, which was much needed at the time! (You and ol' Bobatalks, of course ^_^) Hope you're doing well Pup, thanks for stopping by!
@@randallflagg3700 You're too kind. All credit where due, Boba was doing this long before I was though and much more professional at it too. We're actually good friends. Gotham fans stick together!
@@ChannelPup - Good to know you guys are friends, I've always had a soft spot for Boba ^^ He is indeed _very_ pro, from the setting to the content (His interview of Francesca Root-Dodson [aka Ecco] was both professional and adorable, I often recommend that one to my friends). I'll keep on hoping for a *Pup/Boba* crossover (feat. *Vee* ) some day. Something like, I don't know, a commentary track for an episode that the fans would vote for? (Just a random idea, because the options are endless ^^) Keep up the good work Pup o/ _Gotham forever!_
Robin Lord Taylor's Penguin was my favorite character. I loved his story from start to finish (though I didn't like that they sent him to jail for 10 years in the epillogue.) I liked his relationship with the Riddler, Ivy, Victor, and Martin. He was the heart of the series and I wish that they would make a spin-off comic or animated series set in this universe that would follow him and the Riddler since they are free and Batman has just returned to the city.
His scenes with Victor Zsasz were always great, I was pissed as Sofia "Gigante" Falcone for managing to lure Zsasz to her side, by framing Oswald for Carmine's murder... Crystal Reed was great in that role, and was even better as Abby Arcane in 2019's *Swamp Thing* (still can't believe they cancelled it after only one season, it was one of the best live action DC shows of all times IMO) I'm real glad that *Gotham* gave Robin Lord Taylor & Anthony Carrigan some exposure, those 2 amazing actors really deserved the success they now have. Mr Carrigan's portrayal of Mr Zsasz is now set in stone in the Bat-mythos, what with Alex Morf's Zsasz from *Batwoman* being heavily inspired by him (I know, I know, *Batwoman* sucks, but the episode with Victor Zsasz kicks ass ^^ Alex Morf had also played in *Gotham* , he's the John Malkovich looking gang leader from season 5, _Sykes_ , who ends up getting killed by Jeremiah, 'member?). Penguin and Martin was also great, I was in shock when I thought that Oswald had blown him up "sky high"... the reveal at the end was so sweet
The penguin in Gotham is very capable of love and selflessness imo. He did love his mom and dad, and maybe at first he didn't really love Ed, but when Ed gives him this lecture about love and sacrifice, he changes. He really cares for Martin, he made a whole plan to help the kid escape after all, and was sincerely happy when Martin told him he considered him as a friend. Penguin also helped Jim Gordon so many times, sure we could say that it was in his self interest to have a good relationship with a cop, but honestly, this relationship brought him more problems than anything, and sometimes he did things that weren't in his advantage at all, like framing himself for the murder of Theo Galavan and ending up at Arkham Asylum because of that. A better example of an act of selflessness from him is the scene where he protects Ed from the grenade in season 5, and loses an eye. Penguin also helped a lot in that same season to save Gotham, he could've escaped with the submarine and start anew in another city (with his resourcefullness, I believe this guy could achieve anything he wants anywhere) but no, he feels too attached to Gotham. Also, there are several times in the show where it is emphasized that Penguin's greatest weakness is his heart, meaning his desire and need for reciprocal love and friendship. He's a dramatic character, that sure is evil but still has a heart and a moral compass in spite of that, and could be good but gets discouraged because of all the bad things that constantly happen to him (betrayals, deaths, heartbreaks), so he turns to villainy to take revenge on those who hurt him and show to all those people who belittled him what he's capable of. That makes him very human and relatable, and every human is capable of feeling and showing some sort of love.
He was the most relatable villian, I think. You can't help but root for him and feel bad for him whenever he's betrayed or sad, despite the terrible things he's done. And he did seem to have a small moral line- he was horrified when rape was brought up by his stepmother, and when theo wanted him to burn down so many houses, and by scaring the public masses. He only goes after those who are in his way, rather than the public masses and innocents like the Joker does. Don't know how he is in the comics, but Robin Lord Taylor's portrayal of him was incredible!
the sympathetic psychopath, hes evil, but justifiably the bad guy, he was pushed around, beaten and broken countless times and just snapped, you feel sorry for him while also hating him
Exactly. I think the whole point was that he was severely misunderstood but it's like the author of the video said, “whenever he has a chance to ‘go back to light’ he gets that light taken away and suffocates deeper into darkness”, such as when he repeatedly trusted Jim with everything and kept doing favours for him only to be backstabbed by him multiple times, his mother's, who was one of the only people who truly loved him besides his dad, death, his father's death, the whole arc with Isabella and Edward, Sophia threatening to kill Martin, etc. etc.
Yes I love that about him too! He’s not a good person, no argument there, but he’s not a monster. He really cares about the people in his life, like when the Pyg threatened to kill Martin and Oswald straight up stuffed human flesh into his mouth to save him. And he also has somewhat of a moral code, some lines he won’t cross. For example, he was horrified over the fact all of the innocent people in Haven were killed when the building blew up and really offended when he was accused of doing it.
Robin Lord Taylor was amazing as Penguin I'm excited to see Colin Farrell as Penguin next year, I think he's going to be great in the role, but it's going to be hard to be better than this version (which he doesn't need to be)
I enjoyed watching it at first but had to give it up season 2-ish I think, even though I loved the casting/actors, the writing became just ughh - some notable examples are the second (bearded + slightly fatter + hatted ) cop's random hatred/bullying of the penguin that caused him to go over the edge, and also the first (LA Noire) cop's totally random acting gf - it would be fine if the character was bipolar or something but there they made her change on a whip due to plot reasons. I have fond memories of the 1st season though
@@yuriythebest - Random hatred/bullying of the Penguin? I mean, we all love Pengy here, but from Harvey Bullock's perspective he's a remorseless killer who would stab anyone in the back to have his way. It's not really "bullying" if it's justified, right? On the other hand, I never liked how both Gordon and Bullock kept pushing Nygma around when they were working together. Lots of people make edits with Jim and Eddie as friends, but he was always smiling as Harvey's jokes, making faces behind his back when he would tell riddles, immediately tried to find an excuse to refuse his invitation to dinner before Lee Thompkins accepted for the both of them, and in the end he delivered him to the Court of Owls, where, foll all he knew, he was going to be immediately killed of by a Talon. I actually kind of like Jim, but he gets away with a lot. Ok, my bad about the looong post ^^'
We NEED a RIDDLER analisis. I loved his interpretation. He took a character that was awfully performed before and turned it into a character bigger than the 'Joker' of the series. He's a master
I have a soft spot for Jim Carey’s performance. He was infused with The 60’s camp which the movie was essentially going for. 2022’s riddler was a great combination of John Doe and “Organized Crime”Joker.
@@unacuentadeyoutube13 I've seen The Batman film but still, my favourite version of Riddler is from Gotham. Paul Dano is great but still Cory Michael Smith nailed it, at least in my opinion.
I have always thought that Oswald, along with Bruce and Gordon, was one of the series protagonists. And he is, he is a bad guy protagonist, not an antagonist
I like how you say that Jerome and Jeremiah overshadowed Penguin as the big bad, but I truly never thought that Penguin would be the Big Bad, yknow? Yes hes the biggest evil character, but I feel that we were SUPPOSED to root for him, making him impossible to be The Big Bad. He’s the Villain Protagonist, not a Big Bad.
I am going to be very honest.... I feel that GOTHAMS take on The Penguin is SO WELL DONE that any new Media trying to do the Penguin should CONTINUE where Gotham left off! It was BRILLIANT! Right to the final episode, Robin Lord Taylor had me HOOKED... And that final epsiode too... Seeing Lord Taylor donning a fat suit and begining to become the Penguin we all know from the comics... It was GENUINELY the perfect transiation! This shoudl be where all future Penguin stories BEGIN! And Vee... Thanks for bringing Pup in once more!!! Great Channel... deserves the support!
I personally enjoyed Penguin’s on again/off again love fuelled rivalry with the Riddler. It was deep and complex and expanded on both characters nicely.
And he was in the walking dead, when rick and his group reach terminus and are captured and you see him with blond hair and then gets bashed in the head with a bat then gets throat slit.
Honestly, a lot of the shitty things in Gotham could have been avoided if the characters had let Penguin do his thing. He was essentially the gate that held off the worst of gotham's madness. When he was in power, gotham's criminals still worked in a classic gangster structure, like with falcone and maroni, but whenever penguin got removed from power, we got to witness the worst of gotham. Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska, Theo Galavan, The pyg, The court of owls comboed with the alice tetch virus and more, all done when penguin didn't have control.
Gotham had some really good rendition of classic Batman villains - Penguin, Riddler and even a pretty good Joker. But what killed the series was the very inconsistent written and one of the worst Gordon's ever committed to film (and that includes 60's TV show and the 90's films). Alfred was also very good.
The penguin was the protagonist of the series for a very long time. He was the only charcter with such a great development and interesting story. I remember myself wishing the penguin win over gordon and company
i used to not care about the penguin, but in Gotham he turned out to be my absolute favourite character. i wish i could see more of Gotham's iteration of him.
You don’t have to announce that you are gay to express your opinion about those elements of the show. No one knows if you are telling the truth anyway.
That's why the penguin is the 'main' villain. It's so well played, but there's one better character to me: the ridler. That guy made the character what it deserved to be. Please talk about the strange guy with a green hat whose name is literally E. Nigma
His best “Oh shit moment” was his betrayal of Butch. That is called playing the long con. Masterful writing and acting. Because yeah, Butch killed his beloved mother and we as an audience just let that slide because Penguin did. He’s the best Penguin ever and they ruined him with the 10 yr jump.
The thing that facinates me about Oswald in Gotham it's that they somehow were able to make him a evil guy who cares without making him a hero. He is as bad as it gets, he will backstab and lie and manipilate and murder and while it's possible to imagine him living a more honest life it is impossible to imagine him not being a criminal in some forn or another. BUT he still deeply cares about Gotham and about the very few people he connected with, he truly loved his parents and Martin and even Ed. Martin is the best example as while he adopts the boy with bad intencions he does cares for him not only to the point of staying in Arkam for him but by doing the thing he wasn't able to do with the Riddler: let the kid go. And while the vilan who cares it's not an unique concept but the vilan who cares not having a redeption arc or even being redemable it's. Oswald it's the only vilan I can think who is able to be truly selflees but it's still completly unredemable
He was the reason I kept watching the show. Never did I expect someone to make me believe penguin is the best villain but Robin Lord Taylor proved me wrong. He was funny, dramatic, serious, and overall awesome at playing penguin.
While a clip of Jerome got me interested in Gotham, Oswald Cobblepot is what got me hooked. His story was the most interesting to follow in early season 1, cementing the character as one of my favorites in the show.
I find the Nygma romance thing very interesting, I actually think he’s not gay, the reason he wanted Nygma was because he was the only one who treated him like a person, the same way his relationship with his mother was weird.
I also found the Nygmobblepot thing very interesting, because they never actually categorize it as *one* thing, like "gay" for instance. It's more like Penguin getting quickly attached to someone, anyone showing him love, so he himself believes that _he_ is in love. Except that if he was capable of love, he wouldn't have killed Eddie's crush, but I digress ^^' More than the relationship with his mother, I would instead compare his crush on Nygma to what happened in season 4 when Sofia Falcone manipulated him into getting feelings for her. Making the same goulash as his mother did. Giving him massages to ease the pain in his bad leg... Like she coldly stated when Penguin finally got proof that she was playing him against Gordon, it wasn't hard to get on his good side, at first... guess she didn't count of him being as paranoid as he truly his. "My mother made goulash. Brought the recipe from Budapest. Handed down through her family for 300 years." Poor Pengy... couldn't help but root for him against Sofia, despite all the evil things he's done in the past. From Theo Galavan to Sofia Falcone, the writers were smart in creating people we'd despise so much that Oswald would feel like the good guy going up against them. I guess Sal Maroni was supposed to be in this category too, but David Zayas was, for me, just waaay too much fun in this role to want him dead ^^
One hundred percent agree. Honestly it is one of the most interesting relationships in the show it makes sense penguin would love Nygma since no one else in his life besides his mother and father have cared about him in the slightest
Robin Lord Taylor's take on Penguin was fantastic. A lot of the other villains underestimated him to their peril. For me he was the standout in the show.
I thought Robin Lord Taylor was fantastic, and anyone who has done acting can tell he enjoyed working as an actor on Gotham! The costume and styling design was gorgeous too.
I remember loving Danny DeVito's performance in BATMAN RETURNS, but looking back on it now I see it as a missed opportunity. I admire the Penguin when he's depicted as intelligent, and I think it's possible to show him as that AND to show him as a deformed and disgusting slob. I really like the recent depictions of him as a British crime boss who eats raw fish.
@@thisisnotachannel that's fair a few misses. But I'd say most of the main villains were done better than anyone else had done them. Let's be honest bain hasn't been done very well at any point
I really like the version of the Penguin we got into the Telltales Batman game, and I think it might actually be my favorite. He was childhood friends with Bruce and their families were some of the most powerful in Gotham. Eventually, Oswald's parents come down with debilitating mental illnesses and are forced to go overseas for treatment, ultimately leaving their assets to be bought out by Thomas Wayne. After leaving Gotham, the Cobblepot family becomes destitute, leaving Oswald to try and regain his family's legacy via crime. He eventually becomes a crimelord, and in this continuity the name Penguin seems to come from a gas mask he wears when commiting crimes that somewhat resembles that of a bird or plague doctor. So because he managed to literally fight his way to the top of the crime world, he's actually a very capable fighter in this story, and when he returns to Gotham, it's because he blames the Wayne family for his family's decline, and thus is targeting Bruce. On top of all this, the Thomas Wayne has been accused of essentially being a crime lord in secret in this story, which raises the possibility that Penguin might actually be right about Bruce's family being responsible for his own family's suffering here.
let’s all be honest. there was a lot of amazing actors who nailed there roles in this show. loved Gordon, Bruce and Alfred, Selina, Bullock, Riddler, Penguin, hell even Professor Pyg was played excellent
Penguin and Riddler are what happens when shows fall in love with their Villains. Incredible performance and arcs, but a show like this has to move on, and then focusing on Cameron left them with little to do.
He's one of my favorite Penguins too, one of my top three Penguins. My other two favorites are Burgess Meredith's Penguin from the Adam West show and the Penguin from the 2004 cartoon series The Batman.
I'd like to point out how there are exactly Four real life iterations of both The Penguin And The Riddler. All in pairs for different eras: -1960's Batman -Batman Returns + Batman Forever -Gotham -2022's The Batman
honestly the only reason i kept watching gotham was for penguin, even jerome or jeremiah wouldn't of kept me hooked that long the show was great in general but it was oswald who kept me invested
"He's almost like Bruce Wayne's Polar Opposite" You mean like Joker, Two-Face, Hush, Man-Bat, Killer Moth, Deathstroke, Deadshot and Prometheus? How many Bad versions of yourself can you have!?
@Unknown How is Two-Face Bruce's Polar Opposite? Or Deathstroke? Or Deadshot? or Hush? Or Killer Moth? Saying it is so does not make it so... You need to explain it... Is it because Deadshot and Deathstroke KILL? That does not make them Polar Opposites of Bruce / Batman - Period!
@@Phoenix2312 - He doesn't really need to explain it though, all those cases of Batman/Bruce opposites are pretty well known... *Killer Moth* being, initially, the protector of the criminal underworld from the police, also coming from one of Gotham's wealthy families, being summoned with the Moth-signal and a bunch of other moth-related (Bats feed on moths) gadgets, etc... Poor Killer Moth keeps failing in his attempts, but as Tim Drake once said, his plans & schemes are actually often pretty smart. He's just unlucky to be up against the Bat-family... *Prometheus* being the son of a Bonnie & Clyde type couple that got gunned down by the police in front of him, making a vow to spend his life warring on cops/forces of justice, using the weapon of the cops (a tonfa) as his main weapon, spent his youth traveling the world getting deadly skills from all kinds of masters (just like a young Bruce) until he found the hidden city of Shambhala were he got his "Prometheus-cave"... [in *Arrow* , Prometheus is, instead of Batman, the opposite/twisted reflection of Green Arrow, and reached out to Talia Al Ghul to get the same training and skills as Oliver, turning the bow & arrow back into murder weapons] *Deadshot* is also from a very rich family, but unlike Bruce's, his parents were abusive and he hated them. In a complicated turn of events, he ends up being the one who guns his father down Floyd started out as a vigilante inspired by the Batman, also from one of Gotham rich families, but where Bruce hates guns, Floyd relies completely on them and planned on replacing the dark knight... but while Batman has a strict _no-kill_ rule, Floyd, instead, has a _never-miss_ one.. I won't go case-by-case for all these names, but they're *all* well known dark versions of either Bruce (like Hush) or Batman (like Man-Bat). So no need to go stating things like: "Saying it is so does not make it so... You need to explain it..." or "That does not make them Polar Opposites of Bruce / Batman - Period!" when you can just ask him politely =)
@@randallflagg3700 Pretty well known if you have read every comic book maybe... Much as I am a Batman fan, I have not read every one... So not used to most of these! Killer Moth was a "Forgotten Baddie" when I was reading comics... A couple of them I would agree are kind of opposites of the Bat, But Polar Oposites I would disgaree with most! Floyd most cetainly is indeed an opposite of Bats!!! ABSOLUTLY! Even started on the same path...
I think this is why I didn't like Jerome / Jeremiah Valeska. Gotham took pains to humanize the other villians, but proto-Joker didn't really get that, and they could have done it.
Robin Lord Taylor stole that show for himself and I'm still quite angry he did not even get nominated for emmy because this was emmy deserving acting right there.
The thing with Robin Lord Taylor this being a prequels is that he may eventually grow fat giving in to excess of being a mob boss. Also he may not be short person but he clearly not a giant either in fact if you look at him standing to other actor he often a inch underneath the average height
I think part of what makes him so great in this show is that he's sort of treated as a "main character" Him and Ed are pretty much the MC out of Gothams villains.
I love love love this Penguin. Like, you empathize with him & want him to be better but he just... can't help but do bad things. He's like George Costanza
I think that Gotham had all of the best interpretations of every villain they could have. It was awesome. When I think of The Penguin I the of Robin Lord Taylor first.
Penguin was probably most iconic character of show and almost totally agree with video. Only other things I remember about penguin background is that he is from old family and was bullied in childhood (bullies didn't end up well). I like that monocle, it has interesting background of his injury from defending Gorham. And while he himself isn't sure about his own feelings, Riddler did once test them. He wanted to show him, he is incapable of love, but penguin did chose to rather sacrifice himself, that let them kill him, so he passed and really loved him. At the end of serial, he probably didn't love him and were more like friends/allies that knows each other very well, because their history. But he was, for some time love someone else and he can be redeemed. That is tragedy of his character (in many comic too). He can turn into better person, but don't. Sometimes it's his own choice, sometimes outside influence affect him, but when penguin go back into cold waters of criminal underground, he will be that predator looking for fish to eat.
PS: Another thing Gotham nailed, there is only 2 completely sane Batman villains and who those are ? The Penguin and Bane, both are evil and know what they do in comics and in gotham series.
This show had so much potential and a lot of really good characters and casting. But the writing is so stupidly all over the place. Penguin get's power, loses all power gets all the power, loses all the power, gets all the power, falls in love with the riddler? Gets rejected, kills girl loses all the power. Also died and was resurected atleast twice
"Foresight"? "Strategic planning"? Nah. I don't think that Gotham's Penguin is that smart. What he is is ruthless, self-centered, ambitious and saddistic. He rises to the top simply because he's so determined, he's not squeamish, he has no loyalty except to himself. He just keeps backstabbing anyone above him and it just works! And at some point, there's noone else above him! He becomes a crime boss simply because he's so perfect to that role.
I know I'm late, but I found out the actors who played his Mom Carol Kane was the Granny on Addams Family Values and the father was the father from BURTON'S Batman Returns. Nice
1st favorite character, Oswald Cobblepot 2nd, specifically season 1 and 2 Edward Nygma 3rd, Edward Nygma after season 2 4th favorite, Jeremiah Valeska Can you tell that I'm gay yet? Also I'm not completely sure why I hate Jim so much, I just do and its really of irrational, but its just this burning hate and annoyance everytime he's on screen... and he's like, the main character so that's pretty inconvenient for me personally :/ Well, I actually feel like there are 3 main characters, Jim as the main.... main character.... and then Oswald as the second main character, and bruce as the third. At least in the beginning seasons, they kind of switch from Jim, Oswald, Bruce to Jim, Bruce, Oswald around season 4.
I agree with most of what's said, aside from the "inability to love" part... First, his mom Don't tell me he didn't love his mom... He had an act for three seasons only in order to avenge her. Then, I think he genuinely loved Ed because he thought he could *trust him* (I think Oswald's paranoia was amazingly directed), and there was an episode where he chose something that was not going in his own interest only to show Ed he really loved him... And I'd say he did make "useless" (from a selfish pov) things to find and rescue Martin. I think Penguin loves, but doesn't know how to love. I'd say he even got that from Fish Mooney who also loved but was bad at loving (always regretting to give her heart)
The only thing I disagree with is the part where Oswald’s isn’t capable of love. I think he very much is, but not always the typical selfless type of love. In the sense that the emotion and care is there, but the putting someone’s needs above himself component of love is something he struggles with. As someone else in the comments mentioned, in the show, it’s pointed out that Oswald’s biggest weakness is his heart. He loves his mom, his dad, Ed (though that’s very complicated), and I’d argue he does love Martin. My interpretation of him taking Martin in was the opposite. I thought he took him in to begin with so that he could use him for his own means but he gradually started to care for him. If he wasn’t capable of love, Sophia wouldn’t be able to wield Martin over him to get what she wants and he would have just let Martin get blown up in the car to prove a point. Instead, he goes out of his way to rescue him. One noticeable thing to me was how when the Pyg had a knife to Martin’s throat, Oswald, this very sophisticated, snobbish guy, literally shoved a meat pie made of human flesh (God, that scene was so gross🤢) into his mouth to save him. Plus, there’s a bit of humanity/moral code to him too. Like when Haven blew up and all those innocent people were killed, he was mortified. So yeah, I think he’s a bad person who will choose himself in almost every circumstance, but he’s not evil and soulless. He’s capable of love and has at least a little itty bitty drop of morality.
*Penguin is rarely celebrated because he's to big boasted of a villain...in every interpretation of the Penguin he's ALWAYS given the upperhand...and the truth is batman can never stop Penguin because the city too corrupt to let Penguin be put behind bars, and like said in the video the man has connections so you can't fight Penguin without fighting other big villains...even in the Arkham games Penguin always manages to escape from batman some how...to put the penguin on the big screen without good writers would be exhausting if not done right....he's to powerful for batman AND Bruce Wayne, when batman does take down the Penguin that is when we'll know Batman saved the city...*
This penguin in Gotham I see turinging into fully the Penguin in The Batman film. It seems so seemless. You get that sleezy and somehow still makes you believe him. 😂😂 but you know you shouldn't cause it's The Penguin. He had a small part but it was great.
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They honestly could've done an entire show strictly about Oswald's rise through the criminal underworld...
I always kinda saw oswald as the main character of the show lmao. Season 1 especially
They did, it's called Gotham
Or you know what FOX should make? A Penguin and Riddler spinoff!
@@orlandolee4438 absolutely
@@orlandolee4438 why? batman already came out at the end of the show it would be impossible making a show and not have batman come out when he already made his appearance
I always thought Robin Lord Taylor managed to get a good balance of being a monster and being a gentleman when he was The Penguin in Gotham
It gave me Al Capone vibes who is the real life penguin.
Yeah he did his fair share of evil shit like killing the people who picked him up, a fisherman just for his sandwich, getting Zsasz to torture Butch into doing his bidding, killing Isabella out of jealousy, killing Gabe for calling him a freak and so on but he did good things too like killing Galavan twice, getting back at his evil step family for killing his dad and abusing him by killing his stepsister and brother, feeding them to his stepmother then killing her too, stopping Jerome from driving the city mad and defending Gotham City from Bane and Nyssa. He made you like him, hate him, feel sorry for him, laugh with him and everything.
I heavily agree
@@Xehanort10 and he cares for the boy, i just forgot his name haha
@@serizawatamao8023 Martin. I forgot how it's spelt but I know it's pronounced marteen
His relationship with Gordon is unique and I like it
It lays the blue prints for the relationship Penguin will have later with Batman. Where they turn blind eye to some things in exchange for info and favors.
But the strange friendship Oswald has with Gordon makes it all the more special
Do u also like his relationship with the Riddler??? Thats not just unique, it won't be seen anywhere else but only in this series.. 1st think i thought is What were they thinking??? It was kinda big *surprise* to me *1st time i watched it* i can't forget it in a funny way..
@@renoskous.4425 I love their relationship. Ed and Oswald have no real comic book love interests and that clean relationship slate, to me, makes it more than perfect they love each other.
And I am a sucker for villains having a past history to explain why they have tension between them in the future. The whole relationship is just storyline gold
I just wish Jim treated him better🙁
@@lordderp6914 yeah the ending where we find out penguin was put in prison for ten years after penguin came back specifically to help him makes me really not like jim
I feel like this version of The Penguin in Gotham is the best because it's always feels like he was going to lose but he always finds a way out of certain situations along with outsmarting his enemies
Ikr I love him
Yeah, you can't help but root for him when the odds are against him like that and he comes out on top. This is only helped by Robin Lord Taylor's extremely charismatic performance.
He always outsmarted them like with fish, his step family, Ed, and Tabitha
Talking his way out too
Robin Lord Taylor struck the balance between disgusting and sophisticated so perfectly. He's absolutely the best version of the Penguin.
He sure is! By a mile too !!
I agree 👍:)
Agreed!!!! Me and my brother have always said “He’s a mix of Draco Malfoy and Gollum” comes off as sophisticated but has a completely wretched side hidden.
@@questworldiangreenknight7455 - Heh, that's a pretty good comparison you got there.
I always fucking loved this penguin and riddler
In the line "I always loved penguin and riddler". There is no need of the cusswords
@@godzilla6026 we're not at your house. Stop setting rules.
@@Loonaticx but I 'm not doing nothing, I'm only saying that is a bit gross saying crusswords😥
However for the comment on I liked too riddler and penguin even before the show😁😁😁
@@godzilla6026 they're just words. That's all. They express intent of delivery.
@@godzilla6026 neek
Dude was so distinguishable that I have a hard time calling him The Penguin. In Gotham his character story is so rich that he stands out as Oswald to me. A stand-alone interpretation
As always an absolute pleasure returning to Gotham with you, Mr Vee! This city is where I was born as far as YT is concerned and it feels great to return to my old stomping ground with new friends.
It's always a pleasure when you talk about Gotham.
You were indeed the first, as far as I can remember, "Gotham channel" that regularly gave us a platform to discuss the show on youtube, which was much needed at the time!
(You and ol' Bobatalks, of course ^_^)
Hope you're doing well Pup, thanks for stopping by!
@@randallflagg3700 You're too kind. All credit where due, Boba was doing this long before I was though and much more professional at it too. We're actually good friends. Gotham fans stick together!
@@ChannelPup hey pup😉
@@ChannelPup - Good to know you guys are friends, I've always had a soft spot for Boba ^^
He is indeed _very_ pro, from the setting to the content
(His interview of Francesca Root-Dodson [aka Ecco] was both professional and adorable, I often recommend that one to my friends).
I'll keep on hoping for a *Pup/Boba* crossover (feat. *Vee* ) some day.
Something like, I don't know, a commentary track for an episode that the fans would vote for?
(Just a random idea, because the options are endless ^^)
Keep up the good work Pup o/
_Gotham forever!_
Robin Lord Taylor's Penguin was my favorite character. I loved his story from start to finish (though I didn't like that they sent him to jail for 10 years in the epillogue.)
I liked his relationship with the Riddler, Ivy, Victor, and Martin. He was the heart of the series and I wish that they would make a spin-off comic or animated series set in this universe that would follow him and the Riddler since they are free and Batman has just returned to the city.
His scenes with Victor Zsasz were always great, I was pissed as Sofia "Gigante" Falcone for managing to lure Zsasz to her side, by framing Oswald for Carmine's murder...
Crystal Reed was great in that role, and was even better as Abby Arcane in 2019's *Swamp Thing*
(still can't believe they cancelled it after only one season, it was one of the best live action DC shows of all times IMO)
I'm real glad that *Gotham* gave Robin Lord Taylor & Anthony Carrigan some exposure, those 2 amazing actors really deserved the success they now have.
Mr Carrigan's portrayal of Mr Zsasz is now set in stone in the Bat-mythos, what with Alex Morf's Zsasz from *Batwoman* being heavily inspired by him
(I know, I know, *Batwoman* sucks, but the episode with Victor Zsasz kicks ass ^^ Alex Morf had also played in *Gotham* , he's the John Malkovich looking gang leader from season 5, _Sykes_ , who ends up getting killed by Jeremiah, 'member?).
Penguin and Martin was also great, I was in shock when I thought that Oswald had blown him up "sky high"... the reveal at the end was so sweet
The penguin in Gotham is very capable of love and selflessness imo. He did love his mom and dad, and maybe at first he didn't really love Ed, but when Ed gives him this lecture about love and sacrifice, he changes. He really cares for Martin, he made a whole plan to help the kid escape after all, and was sincerely happy when Martin told him he considered him as a friend. Penguin also helped Jim Gordon so many times, sure we could say that it was in his self interest to have a good relationship with a cop, but honestly, this relationship brought him more problems than anything, and sometimes he did things that weren't in his advantage at all, like framing himself for the murder of Theo Galavan and ending up at Arkham Asylum because of that. A better example of an act of selflessness from him is the scene where he protects Ed from the grenade in season 5, and loses an eye. Penguin also helped a lot in that same season to save Gotham, he could've escaped with the submarine and start anew in another city (with his resourcefullness, I believe this guy could achieve anything he wants anywhere) but no, he feels too attached to Gotham.
Also, there are several times in the show where it is emphasized that Penguin's greatest weakness is his heart, meaning his desire and need for reciprocal love and friendship.
He's a dramatic character, that sure is evil but still has a heart and a moral compass in spite of that, and could be good but gets discouraged because of all the bad things that constantly happen to him (betrayals, deaths, heartbreaks), so he turns to villainy to take revenge on those who hurt him and show to all those people who belittled him what he's capable of. That makes him very human and relatable, and every human is capable of feeling and showing some sort of love.
He was the most relatable villian, I think. You can't help but root for him and feel bad for him whenever he's betrayed or sad, despite the terrible things he's done. And he did seem to have a small moral line- he was horrified when rape was brought up by his stepmother, and when theo wanted him to burn down so many houses, and by scaring the public masses. He only goes after those who are in his way, rather than the public masses and innocents like the Joker does. Don't know how he is in the comics, but Robin Lord Taylor's portrayal of him was incredible!
exactly, people think hes just fully selfish when hes not.
the sympathetic psychopath, hes evil, but justifiably the bad guy, he was pushed around, beaten and broken countless times and just snapped, you feel sorry for him while also hating him
Exactly. I think the whole point was that he was severely misunderstood but it's like the author of the video said, “whenever he has a chance to ‘go back to light’ he gets that light taken away and suffocates deeper into darkness”, such as when he repeatedly trusted Jim with everything and kept doing favours for him only to be backstabbed by him multiple times, his mother's, who was one of the only people who truly loved him besides his dad, death, his father's death, the whole arc with Isabella and Edward, Sophia threatening to kill Martin, etc. etc.
Yes I love that about him too! He’s not a good person, no argument there, but he’s not a monster. He really cares about the people in his life, like when the Pyg threatened to kill Martin and Oswald straight up stuffed human flesh into his mouth to save him. And he also has somewhat of a moral code, some lines he won’t cross. For example, he was horrified over the fact all of the innocent people in Haven were killed when the building blew up and really offended when he was accused of doing it.
Fun fact the actor paul reubens who plays penguins father also played his father in the Batman returns
And in two totally different ways. I. Batman begins he is heartless but in Gotham you can’t help but feel for Oswald when his father is taken from him
@@josephgrace5955 You mean Batman Returns?
@@devontehuntley6274 yeah lol good catch
XD!!!!!!!!!!! nice little easter egg
@@josephgrace5955 Im shocked Vee nor Pup brought that actually
The Best Penguin, I couldn’t agree more.
Sorry Burgess Meredith was best Penguin.
@@Babygirlly555 he was good but nowhere near best penguin
@@redguywithatophat1900 He made the Penguin famous. In the early comics Penguin was just a minor villain. Until Meredith made him Iconic.
@@Babygirlly555 yes but he isn't the best version in my opinion, I'm not saying that he's not iconic because he is great but that's just me
Robin Lord Taylor was amazing as Penguin
I'm excited to see Colin Farrell as Penguin next year, I think he's going to be great in the role, but it's going to be hard to be better than this version (which he doesn't need to be)
What do u think now
I'm shocked Vee nor Pup brought up that Paul Reubens played Oswald's father in Batman Returns and Gotham
Miss Gotham so much. The casting for each character was great and the acting was fantastic from top to bottom. Underrated show
I enjoyed watching it at first but had to give it up season 2-ish I think, even though I loved the casting/actors, the writing became just ughh - some notable examples are the second (bearded + slightly fatter + hatted ) cop's random hatred/bullying of the penguin that caused him to go over the edge, and also the first (LA Noire) cop's totally random acting gf - it would be fine if the character was bipolar or something but there they made her change on a whip due to plot reasons. I have fond memories of the 1st season though
@@yuriythebest - Random hatred/bullying of the Penguin?
I mean, we all love Pengy here, but from Harvey Bullock's perspective he's a remorseless killer who would stab anyone in the back to have his way.
It's not really "bullying" if it's justified, right?
On the other hand, I never liked how both Gordon and Bullock kept pushing Nygma around when they were working together.
Lots of people make edits with Jim and Eddie as friends, but he was always smiling as Harvey's jokes, making faces behind his back when he would tell riddles, immediately tried to find an excuse to refuse his invitation to dinner before Lee Thompkins accepted for the both of them, and in the end he delivered him to the Court of Owls, where, foll all he knew, he was going to be immediately killed of by a Talon.
I actually kind of like Jim, but he gets away with a lot.
Ok, my bad about the looong post ^^'
We NEED a RIDDLER analisis. I loved his interpretation. He took a character that was awfully performed before and turned it into a character bigger than the 'Joker' of the series. He's a master
I have a soft spot for Jim Carey’s performance. He was infused with The 60’s camp which the movie was essentially going for. 2022’s riddler was a great combination of John Doe and “Organized Crime”Joker.
@@EscapeArt15 I haven't seen the new batman film yet, I was talking about the riddler from Gotham in this comment
@@unacuentadeyoutube13 I've seen The Batman film but still, my favourite version of Riddler is from Gotham. Paul Dano is great but still Cory Michael Smith nailed it, at least in my opinion.
@@mr.heisenberg6517 he truly owned the show with the penguin
@@unacuentadeyoutube13 can't agree more. Their duo always take over the screen when they're together.
I have always thought that Oswald, along with Bruce and Gordon, was one of the series protagonists. And he is, he is a bad guy protagonist, not an antagonist
Yes, Antihero.
@@mshaddds8013 No, bad guy protagonist
People can say what they want about Gotham, but they have to admit, the Penguin was great in the show.
I like how you say that Jerome and Jeremiah overshadowed Penguin as the big bad, but I truly never thought that Penguin would be the Big Bad, yknow? Yes hes the biggest evil character, but I feel that we were SUPPOSED to root for him, making him impossible to be The Big Bad. He’s the Villain Protagonist, not a Big Bad.
I am going to be very honest.... I feel that GOTHAMS take on The Penguin is SO WELL DONE that any new Media trying to do the Penguin should CONTINUE where Gotham left off! It was BRILLIANT!
Right to the final episode, Robin Lord Taylor had me HOOKED... And that final epsiode too... Seeing Lord Taylor donning a fat suit and begining to become the Penguin we all know from the comics... It was GENUINELY the perfect transiation! This shoudl be where all future Penguin stories BEGIN!
And Vee... Thanks for bringing Pup in once more!!! Great Channel... deserves the support!
One of THE BEST VILLAINS PORTRAYALS/ACTORS to be in Batman media. He MADE THE SHOW in so many ways.
Finally someone said it!! Robin Lord Taylor is amazing in this role
I personally enjoyed Penguin’s on again/off again love fuelled rivalry with the Riddler. It was deep and complex and expanded on both characters nicely.
Anyone else remember Robin Lord Taylor in Accepted?
He played a guy with A.D.D. named Abernathy Darwin Dunlap.
First time I saw him
And he was in the walking dead, when rick and his group reach terminus and are captured and you see him with blond hair and then gets bashed in the head with a bat then gets throat slit.
I actually met Robin Lord Taylor at Comic Con once he’s such a nice and down to earth guy
Honestly, a lot of the shitty things in Gotham could have been avoided if the characters had let Penguin do his thing. He was essentially the gate that held off the worst of gotham's madness. When he was in power, gotham's criminals still worked in a classic gangster structure, like with falcone and maroni, but whenever penguin got removed from power, we got to witness the worst of gotham. Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska, Theo Galavan, The pyg, The court of owls comboed with the alice tetch virus and more, all done when penguin didn't have control.
Gotham had some really good rendition of classic Batman villains - Penguin, Riddler and even a pretty good Joker. But what killed the series was the very inconsistent written and one of the worst Gordon's ever committed to film (and that includes 60's TV show and the 90's films). Alfred was also very good.
The penguin was the protagonist of the series for a very long time. He was the only charcter with such a great development and interesting story. I remember myself wishing the penguin win over gordon and company
i used to not care about the penguin, but in Gotham he turned out to be my absolute favourite character. i wish i could see more of Gotham's iteration of him.
Tom Kenny was great as the Penguin in THE BATMAN cartoon.
Didnt know that was Tom Kenny and I agree
Yea he was and that show was most underrated animated show of Batman
As a member of the LGBT community, season three absolutely wrecked me
Yeah
You don’t have to announce that you are gay to express your opinion about those elements of the show. No one knows if you are telling the truth anyway.
That's why the penguin is the 'main' villain. It's so well played, but there's one better character to me: the ridler. That guy made the character what it deserved to be. Please talk about the strange guy with a green hat whose name is literally E. Nigma
His best “Oh shit moment” was his betrayal of Butch. That is called playing the long con. Masterful writing and acting. Because yeah, Butch killed his beloved mother and we as an audience just let that slide because Penguin did. He’s the best Penguin ever and they ruined him with the 10 yr jump.
When butch dies completely killed me, but it also made me love the penguin way more
The thing that facinates me about Oswald in Gotham it's that they somehow were able to make him a evil guy who cares without making him a hero. He is as bad as it gets, he will backstab and lie and manipilate and murder and while it's possible to imagine him living a more honest life it is impossible to imagine him not being a criminal in some forn or another. BUT he still deeply cares about Gotham and about the very few people he connected with, he truly loved his parents and Martin and even Ed. Martin is the best example as while he adopts the boy with bad intencions he does cares for him not only to the point of staying in Arkam for him but by doing the thing he wasn't able to do with the Riddler: let the kid go. And while the vilan who cares it's not an unique concept but the vilan who cares not having a redeption arc or even being redemable it's. Oswald it's the only vilan I can think who is able to be truly selflees but it's still completly unredemable
Robin Lord Taylor as the Penguin was captivating. Gotham did a great job with characters.
He was the reason I kept watching the show. Never did I expect someone to make me believe penguin is the best villain but Robin Lord Taylor proved me wrong. He was funny, dramatic, serious, and overall awesome at playing penguin.
While a clip of Jerome got me interested in Gotham, Oswald Cobblepot is what got me hooked. His story was the most interesting to follow in early season 1, cementing the character as one of my favorites in the show.
I find the Nygma romance thing very interesting, I actually think he’s not gay, the reason he wanted Nygma was because he was the only one who treated him like a person, the same way his relationship with his mother was weird.
I also found the Nygmobblepot thing very interesting, because they never actually categorize it as *one* thing, like "gay" for instance.
It's more like Penguin getting quickly attached to someone, anyone showing him love, so he himself believes that _he_ is in love.
Except that if he was capable of love, he wouldn't have killed Eddie's crush, but I digress ^^'
More than the relationship with his mother, I would instead compare his crush on Nygma to what happened in season 4 when Sofia Falcone manipulated him into getting feelings for her.
Making the same goulash as his mother did. Giving him massages to ease the pain in his bad leg...
Like she coldly stated when Penguin finally got proof that she was playing him against Gordon, it wasn't hard to get on his good side, at first... guess she didn't count of him being as paranoid as he truly his.
"My mother made goulash. Brought the recipe from Budapest. Handed down through her family for 300 years."
Poor Pengy... couldn't help but root for him against Sofia, despite all the evil things he's done in the past.
From Theo Galavan to Sofia Falcone, the writers were smart in creating people we'd despise so much that Oswald would feel like the good guy going up against them.
I guess Sal Maroni was supposed to be in this category too, but David Zayas was, for me, just waaay too much fun in this role to want him dead ^^
@@randallflagg3700 I absolutely agree
One hundred percent agree. Honestly it is one of the most interesting relationships in the show it makes sense penguin would love Nygma since no one else in his life besides his mother and father have cared about him in the slightest
@@plugshirt1684
It does make sense
I feel like Gotham was a worthy prequel/new look at the Batman mythos and rogues gallery
His father's last name wasn't Cobblepot. That was his mom's last name. His dad's last name was Van Dahl.
Actually his mom's last name wasn't even Cobblepot either, it was actually Kapelput
He was unexpectedly my favorite character on the show.
Same :)
Honestly, seeing penguin climb the ladder is 100xs more interesting than him already being on the top, i hope more incarnations explore this
Penguin and riddler in gotham are my favorite live action interpretations of those characters im supper excited for the new riddler though.
Robin Lord Taylor's take on Penguin was fantastic. A lot of the other villains underestimated him to their peril. For me he was the standout in the show.
So I guess we'll be getting a 'Gotham had the best Riddler' video soon too
Yes
Before watching Gotham I never would’ve guessed penguin would become one of my favorite batman villains
Gotham's Penguin and Riddler are the best live action versions and I love Carrey's take on the riddler
This show was an underrated classic
Has Robert Lord Taylor received an Emmy for this role yet ? . . .
No. He never did. 😕
He should have...
I thought Robin Lord Taylor was fantastic, and anyone who has done acting can tell he enjoyed working as an actor on Gotham! The costume and styling design was gorgeous too.
I remember loving Danny DeVito's performance in BATMAN RETURNS, but looking back on it now I see it as a missed opportunity. I admire the Penguin when he's depicted as intelligent, and I think it's possible to show him as that AND to show him as a deformed and disgusting slob. I really like the recent depictions of him as a British crime boss who eats raw fish.
"Rags to Riches but evil" sumarized Gotham Oswald story soo well.
Gotham had the best penguin. And Riddler. And joker (or not joker). And poison ivy. And... Noticing a pattern?
Every villain in Gotham was very good
Well, they fucked up Bane pretty badly...
But I mostly agree with you. Didn't care for Theo Gallivan, either.
@@thisisnotachannel that's fair a few misses. But I'd say most of the main villains were done better than anyone else had done them. Let's be honest bain hasn't been done very well at any point
@@HardlyQuinn TDK Bane was amazing
@@thisisnotachannel I liked Galavan ^^
They couldn’t have picked a better actor! So menacing yet so good!
Penguin, Riddler, and Gundy were my favorite characters on the show.
Nicely done, you have solidified my appreciation of Penguin.
And Those cameos were a great investment.
Fun Fact: The Director and Writers confirmed that they focused on Oswald being more affectionate only after he was "fixed" by Hugo Strange.
I really like the version of the Penguin we got into the Telltales Batman game, and I think it might actually be my favorite. He was childhood friends with Bruce and their families were some of the most powerful in Gotham. Eventually, Oswald's parents come down with debilitating mental illnesses and are forced to go overseas for treatment, ultimately leaving their assets to be bought out by Thomas Wayne. After leaving Gotham, the Cobblepot family becomes destitute, leaving Oswald to try and regain his family's legacy via crime. He eventually becomes a crimelord, and in this continuity the name Penguin seems to come from a gas mask he wears when commiting crimes that somewhat resembles that of a bird or plague doctor. So because he managed to literally fight his way to the top of the crime world, he's actually a very capable fighter in this story, and when he returns to Gotham, it's because he blames the Wayne family for his family's decline, and thus is targeting Bruce. On top of all this, the Thomas Wayne has been accused of essentially being a crime lord in secret in this story, which raises the possibility that Penguin might actually be right about Bruce's family being responsible for his own family's suffering here.
Telltale was a very creative take on Penguin and I admire them creating Lady Arkham whose a completely new concept.
let’s all be honest. there was a lot of amazing actors who nailed there roles in this show. loved Gordon, Bruce and Alfred, Selina, Bullock, Riddler, Penguin, hell even Professor Pyg was played excellent
Give me a break....this character is definitely celebrated. He is second to Joker.
He should be but generally he's treated as fifth or sixth level behind Two Face, Catwoman, Bane, Ras Al Ghul and Riddler
@@DrSPF23 nah penguin is more well known than ras al ghul
He is The Penguin !!!!
@@JerrySoCalx uh yep he is
The crossover we never expected but now that we think about it is absolutely perfect
Penguin and Riddler are what happens when shows fall in love with their Villains. Incredible performance and arcs, but a show like this has to move on, and then focusing on Cameron left them with little to do.
Something I really liked was that penguins dad was played by Paul Reubens in Gotham and in Batman returns Paul Reubens played penguins dad
He's one of my favorite Penguins too, one of my top three Penguins. My other two favorites are Burgess Meredith's Penguin from the Adam West show and the Penguin from the 2004 cartoon series The Batman.
I'd like to point out how there are exactly Four real life iterations of both The Penguin And The Riddler. All in pairs for different eras:
-1960's Batman
-Batman Returns + Batman Forever
-Gotham
-2022's The Batman
This show’s Penguin is one of my favorite characters of all time.
honestly the only reason i kept watching gotham was for penguin, even jerome or jeremiah wouldn't of kept me hooked that long
the show was great in general but it was oswald who kept me invested
"He's almost like Bruce Wayne's Polar Opposite"
You mean like Joker, Two-Face, Hush, Man-Bat, Killer Moth, Deathstroke, Deadshot and Prometheus? How many Bad versions of yourself can you have!?
the joker is batman's opposite, Oswald is Bruce's opposite.
@Unknown How is Two-Face Bruce's Polar Opposite? Or Deathstroke? Or Deadshot? or Hush? Or Killer Moth? Saying it is so does not make it so... You need to explain it...
Is it because Deadshot and Deathstroke KILL? That does not make them Polar Opposites of Bruce / Batman - Period!
@@Phoenix2312 Batman doesn't even kill.
@@Phoenix2312 - He doesn't really need to explain it though, all those cases of Batman/Bruce opposites are pretty well known...
*Killer Moth* being, initially, the protector of the criminal underworld from the police, also coming from one of Gotham's wealthy families, being summoned with the Moth-signal and a bunch of other moth-related
(Bats feed on moths) gadgets, etc...
Poor Killer Moth keeps failing in his attempts, but as Tim Drake once said, his plans & schemes are actually often pretty smart.
He's just unlucky to be up against the Bat-family...
*Prometheus* being the son of a Bonnie & Clyde type couple that got gunned down by the police in front of him, making a vow to spend his life warring on cops/forces of justice, using the weapon of the cops (a tonfa) as his main weapon, spent his youth traveling the world getting deadly skills from all kinds of masters (just like a young Bruce) until he found the hidden city of Shambhala were he got his "Prometheus-cave"...
[in *Arrow* , Prometheus is, instead of Batman, the opposite/twisted reflection of Green Arrow, and reached out to Talia Al Ghul to get the same training and skills as Oliver, turning the bow & arrow back into murder weapons]
*Deadshot* is also from a very rich family, but unlike Bruce's, his parents were abusive and he hated them.
In a complicated turn of events, he ends up being the one who guns his father down
Floyd started out as a vigilante inspired by the Batman, also from one of Gotham rich families, but where Bruce hates guns, Floyd relies completely on them and planned on replacing the dark knight... but while Batman has a strict _no-kill_ rule, Floyd, instead, has a _never-miss_ one..
I won't go case-by-case for all these names, but they're *all* well known dark versions of either Bruce (like Hush) or Batman (like Man-Bat).
So no need to go stating things like: "Saying it is so does not make it so... You need to explain it..." or "That does not make them Polar Opposites of Bruce / Batman - Period!"
when you can just ask him politely =)
@@randallflagg3700 Pretty well known if you have read every comic book maybe... Much as I am a Batman fan, I have not read every one... So not used to most of these! Killer Moth was a "Forgotten Baddie" when I was reading comics...
A couple of them I would agree are kind of opposites of the Bat, But Polar Oposites I would disgaree with most! Floyd most cetainly is indeed an opposite of Bats!!! ABSOLUTLY! Even started on the same path...
Robin was amazing,i always loved his screams and he was my favorite character in the show
Great episode. Robin was amazing as Penguin. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how they handled Ivy
I think this is why I didn't like Jerome / Jeremiah Valeska. Gotham took pains to humanize the other villians, but proto-Joker didn't really get that, and they could have done it.
Robin Lord Taylor stole that show for himself and I'm still quite angry he did not even get nominated for emmy because this was emmy deserving acting right there.
Danny DeVito should have been an awesome Penguin, if it wasn't the crappy movie they put him in!
the final ep penguin looks like they just thought about it last min and stuck a pillow down his top and said fuck it good enough
You might be my least favourite youtube.. but you are still one of my favourites!
Robin Lord Taylor was excellent.
The made the best Penguin and version of Alfred.
Wait you're a Batman nerd? Never noticed.
Colin in the new Batman. Was fantastic. Couldn't tell it was him.
No the best penguin is definitely from Lego Batman the video game
His performance on this show was the reason I placed him in my 'top 10 actors of all time' list
Robin Lord Taylor >>> Oswalda Cobblepot.
GOTHAM >>> BATMAN : CRINGE CRUSADER.
The thing with Robin Lord Taylor this being a prequels is that he may eventually grow fat giving in to excess of being a mob boss. Also he may not be short person but he clearly not a giant either in fact if you look at him standing to other actor he often a inch underneath the average height
I think part of what makes him so great in this show is that he's sort of treated as a "main character"
Him and Ed are pretty much the MC out of Gothams villains.
I love love love this Penguin. Like, you empathize with him & want him to be better but he just... can't help but do bad things. He's like George Costanza
I think that Gotham had all of the best interpretations of every villain they could have. It was awesome. When I think of The Penguin I the of Robin Lord Taylor first.
Your videos is making me wanna rewatch Gotham.
Agreed, when the show was good Penguin was just amazing to watch.
Penguin was probably most iconic character of show and almost totally agree with video. Only other things I remember about penguin background is that he is from old family and was bullied in childhood (bullies didn't end up well). I like that monocle, it has interesting background of his injury from defending Gorham. And while he himself isn't sure about his own feelings, Riddler did once test them. He wanted to show him, he is incapable of love, but penguin did chose to rather sacrifice himself, that let them kill him, so he passed and really loved him. At the end of serial, he probably didn't love him and were more like friends/allies that knows each other very well, because their history. But he was, for some time love someone else and he can be redeemed. That is tragedy of his character (in many comic too). He can turn into better person, but don't. Sometimes it's his own choice, sometimes outside influence affect him, but when penguin go back into cold waters of criminal underground, he will be that predator looking for fish to eat.
Honestly, I think it's harder for me to pick a favourite Penguin than it is to pick a favourite Joker.
PS: Another thing Gotham nailed, there is only 2 completely sane Batman villains and who those are ? The Penguin and Bane, both are evil and know what they do in comics and in gotham series.
Can you do Arkham had the best Riddler? (or Gotham)
This show had so much potential and a lot of really good characters and casting. But the writing is so stupidly all over the place.
Penguin get's power, loses all power gets all the power, loses all the power, gets all the power, falls in love with the riddler? Gets rejected, kills girl loses all the power.
Also died and was resurected atleast twice
"Foresight"? "Strategic planning"? Nah. I don't think that Gotham's Penguin is that smart. What he is is ruthless, self-centered, ambitious and saddistic. He rises to the top simply because he's so determined, he's not squeamish, he has no loyalty except to himself. He just keeps backstabbing anyone above him and it just works! And at some point, there's noone else above him! He becomes a crime boss simply because he's so perfect to that role.
I know I'm late, but I found out the actors who played his Mom Carol Kane was the Granny on Addams Family Values and the father was the father from BURTON'S Batman Returns. Nice
1st favorite character, Oswald Cobblepot
2nd, specifically season 1 and 2 Edward Nygma
3rd, Edward Nygma after season 2
4th favorite, Jeremiah Valeska
Can you tell that I'm gay yet?
Also I'm not completely sure why I hate Jim so much, I just do and its really of irrational, but its just this burning hate and annoyance everytime he's on screen... and he's like, the main character so that's pretty inconvenient for me personally :/
Well, I actually feel like there are 3 main characters, Jim as the main.... main character.... and then Oswald as the second main character, and bruce as the third. At least in the beginning seasons, they kind of switch from Jim, Oswald, Bruce to Jim, Bruce, Oswald around season 4.
Honestly, Robin is the main reason I kept watching this show. I absolutely loved watching Cobblepott's rise to power.
I agree with most of what's said, aside from the "inability to love" part... First, his mom
Don't tell me he didn't love his mom... He had an act for three seasons only in order to avenge her. Then, I think he genuinely loved Ed because he thought he could *trust him* (I think Oswald's paranoia was amazingly directed), and there was an episode where he chose something that was not going in his own interest only to show Ed he really loved him... And I'd say he did make "useless" (from a selfish pov) things to find and rescue Martin. I think Penguin loves, but doesn't know how to love. I'd say he even got that from Fish Mooney who also loved but was bad at loving (always regretting to give her heart)
The only thing I disagree with is the part where Oswald’s isn’t capable of love. I think he very much is, but not always the typical selfless type of love. In the sense that the emotion and care is there, but the putting someone’s needs above himself component of love is something he struggles with. As someone else in the comments mentioned, in the show, it’s pointed out that Oswald’s biggest weakness is his heart. He loves his mom, his dad, Ed (though that’s very complicated), and I’d argue he does love Martin. My interpretation of him taking Martin in was the opposite. I thought he took him in to begin with so that he could use him for his own means but he gradually started to care for him. If he wasn’t capable of love, Sophia wouldn’t be able to wield Martin over him to get what she wants and he would have just let Martin get blown up in the car to prove a point. Instead, he goes out of his way to rescue him. One noticeable thing to me was how when the Pyg had a knife to Martin’s throat, Oswald, this very sophisticated, snobbish guy, literally shoved a meat pie made of human flesh (God, that scene was so gross🤢) into his mouth to save him. Plus, there’s a bit of humanity/moral code to him too. Like when Haven blew up and all those innocent people were killed, he was mortified. So yeah, I think he’s a bad person who will choose himself in almost every circumstance, but he’s not evil and soulless. He’s capable of love and has at least a little itty bitty drop of morality.
*Penguin is rarely celebrated because he's to big boasted of a villain...in every interpretation of the Penguin he's ALWAYS given the upperhand...and the truth is batman can never stop Penguin because the city too corrupt to let Penguin be put behind bars, and like said in the video the man has connections so you can't fight Penguin without fighting other big villains...even in the Arkham games Penguin always manages to escape from batman some how...to put the penguin on the big screen without good writers would be exhausting if not done right....he's to powerful for batman AND Bruce Wayne, when batman does take down the Penguin that is when we'll know Batman saved the city...*
This penguin in Gotham I see turinging into fully the Penguin in The Batman film. It seems so seemless. You get that sleezy and somehow still makes you believe him. 😂😂 but you know you shouldn't cause it's The Penguin. He had a small part but it was great.