How (not) to park a 4x4 on a hill - with Ford Everest showing changes in Gen 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2023
- #fordeverest #everest #hill #parkbrake
Modern 4X4s have largely dispensed with the part-time 4WD system, and even the simple open/locked centre differential. In the case of the Ford Everest there's a friction clutch actuated by a motor, which progressively changes from open to locked. Such systems are designed to be user-friendly, as there is no longer any need to learn about windup or locking centre diffs. However, they may suffer from problems - not locking when they should. Such was the case in the Gen 1 Everest, and I demonstrated it here:
Original Everest Gen 1 video • The 4x4 hill danger wi...
I have tested the Gen 2 Everest and you can see the results in this video.
Post questions as comments!
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Watching this make me realise just how good my Mitsubishi Pajero superselect 4x4 system and Parking brake are. When in low range always locks centre diff. Parking brake actually works extremely well on all angles and slopes.
good work by you and Ford...one advantage of part time 4wd systems. Once you in 4wd you remain in 4wd
Superb automotive journalism!
I learned long ago not to trust parking brakes. I've seen several of them fail, in various makes. Always turn the front wheel into the curb (to the left if uphill) and chock your tires!😊
Some XB\XC fords, probably others too, had a habit of jumping out of park into neutral if the shifter was worn or not completely adjusted correctly, and the car could roll away. So even in an auto, always use the park brake too.
Yep was up in steep hills in southern NSW a few years ago volunteering with Blazeaid. Farmer had a new 79 series cruiser and everytime he stopped on a hill he quickly chocked a wheel as it was clear the parking brakes was letting the car roll down the hill. Yet my Pajero with heavy trailer attached parked next to the cruiser was holding no problems using parking brake and 1st gear low range.
@@philiplange428 park brake maybe needed adjusting?
@@Expedient_Mensch no new Toyota, less than 3 months old. Toyota Landcruiser parking brake known to not work properly. Asked farmer, yep new one just the same issue as previous 3 he had so he always chocked with a big lump of wood. Sais alot about a $70k plus 4x4???
In Australia turn the front wheels into the kerb (left downhill) and away from the kerb (right uphill). However - when off-roading there is no kerb.
*it’s not “curb” as that means to curtail, prevent or reduce such as Curb your enthusiasm.
@Philip Lange When a large trailer is attached the electric brakes should stay on when parked on a slope to reduce the strain on the tow vehicle (I guess that depends on the electric brake system you are using).
Very informative and well explained with diagrams and real life application. 👌🏾
Beautiful work! Thanks for this video 😊
It's good to see Ford take responsibility and fix this in their Gen. 2 model... I want one!
Funny how other manufacturers could get it right to start with. In most cases 20 plus years ago. Better late than never.
So the 1st gen Everest has a more complicated 4WD system than I thought. Toyota sidesteps all these issues by only offering part-time 4WD or full-time 4WD with a lockable torsen center diff, being the cheaper and more antiquated and the more sophisticated and confident alterative respectively.
No the UA Everest does not have "4x4 high Range" where driver can simply lock the centre diff, its an automatic transfer system and when not in use (i.e.: transmission in PARK) the centre clutch pack disengages which s what Robert has described, now in normal situations re: flat levels or near level surface its not an issue however as shown here at nearly a 40+ degree angle it an issue as the front wheels are not locked by anything.
The new gen Everest (I think its the UB or UC) how has 4x4 High range which can be selected by the driver on the fly (50/50 torque split) but also has essentially AWD where the centre clutch adapts where torque is sent, its not a fixed percentage (Pajaro Sport is 30/70 when in 4H Open).
The new new system ford uses for Everest and V6 Ranger is pretry much the same as Super Select II but also allows for Traction control to stay on with RDL.
Technically the UA/UA2 Everest is second gen. The U268 is the first gen, sadly Australia didn’t have the first gen but some South East Asian markets did. Great video as usual. I wanted to make this comment couple of weeks ago but I was busy lol. Kudos to Ford for fixing stuff.
Thanks yes was referring to the Ranger-PX based Everest more than the earlier versions. Ford call it Next Gen which doesn't imply a version.
that is all fine and well however in Australia i does not apply and as such the 1st gen Everest the UA was in fact the 1st FORD designed Everest and not a Mazda derived version.
It's lime the Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute, from the early 2000's, it has a Ford V6, Ford based transmission and Ford based suspension, but has Mazda based single speed transfer case for On-Demand AWD and what Mazda described as a "rotary blade coupling" to enable 4x4 High speed or essentially a centre locking differential which locked all 4 wheels at same rotation with fill time 50/50 torque split. the basic unbody was a combined Ford/Mazda design as was the had points for the interior and exterior design. as we all know Mazda did not do an Everest type vehicle with there access to the T6 platform.
Fascinating. Similar would apply to constant 4wd, open diff, with one front wheel having very poor traction.
Waiting on my gen 2 v6. Think its going to be a long wait
good follow up Robert from the original video several years ago. On the new gen Everest, had one for a 24 hour test drive (Ambiente spec 2L sequential turbo) did some very light off reading at the Menai tracks.
On-road: Much better now that drivers can switch to simple RWD for on-road use as it removes the major negative I had about the steering in 1st gen re: KICKBACK since that was a fixed torque split AWD system (from memory 30/70), the updated 4A (AWD) system is now an adaptive non fixed torque split %, that said the steering is not as good as the MkII Everest (from October 2019 onwards) as ford have changed the away bar links and steering rack position to sit behind the front axle line as it was with the 1st spec (when it was just the good ol 3.2L 5cyl), ford have also upgraded the brakes all-round, that said the electric hand break and STUPID e:shifter can F right off, whom ever let that pass through needs to be fired, note to FORD: I never use the stupid auto parking for my current car or when i had this Everest, get rid of the e:sifter and give us a proper gear lever with proper manual mode shift gate.
It appears Ford have removed the active noise cancellation microphones (at least in base spec) as there is now a lot more rear tyre noise and a "booming" noise from on road surface with expansion joints, the ride is also better now since its got a longer wheelbase, the interior is a much nicer place as my Everest from back in the day had the small tech screen and Nokia style button interface re: SYNC 1, seats are about the same as I remember.
Off Road: the longer wheel base has hurt it ramp over angle, sure its better on the front line but centre and rear are now compromised off road, if i were gonna do serious off road use I would invest into getting spacer lift kit all round which i know willl not be good on-road but at this current levels its simply rubs its belly everywhere.
Finally proper 4x4 HIGH RANGE which means you don't need TMS (which meh worked fined but takes your skill away), 4x4 LOW is just like i remember although the 2L sequential turbo offers more torque to me the good ol 3.2 5cyl had a longer torque curve so you could launch in 2nd and not slip, can't do that with the 2L 4cyl, also again that stupid E:Shifter in this case the dumb toggle side buttons, AGAIN WHY FORD WHY give owners a proper gear lever with proper manual shift gate mode PULL to UPSHIFT and PUSH to DOWNSHIFT you did it for the Everest and Ranger so why change it to this dumb e:shfter crap.
Other than that the new gen should be good, does it have the magic of the 1st gen Everest? no but that is my view yours could be different.
do I see myself buying one? waiting to see if the rumour of the ATLAS with turbo petrol power will come true.
Thank you for a comprehensive post!
Great video. Once again, i learnt something new. Thank you! So this effect doesnt occur in a part time 4x4 if its in 4H/4L? Only if it is in 2H? Cheers again!
A part-time 4x4 in 4WD enforces front and rear axles turning at same speed, so conceptually same as a constant 4x4/AWD with a centre diff locked. So, parkbrake on rear wheels in effect locks all four. For a part-time 4WD in 2H then the parkbrake works only on the rear again, but the front axle is free to rotate so you'll slide down hills.
Great work Robert, glad Ford was open to rectify this issue.
Would quickly turning the steering left and right while pulling the lever out of park help? It might take some pressure off on soft ground?
I don't know and will never know if the changes were as a result of on my test. Yes that may help but I wouldn't bet on it.
Thank you for explaining the situation, I had not known about the situation previously. I own a Prado so locking centre diff would solve the situation. Cheers
Yes, it's N/A for you! Just lock the centre offroad.
@@L2SFBC - Robert I am curious if the same issue still existed if you had the transfer case in 4x4 LOW RANGE when brake is on and shifted into natural then applied park brake? even if engine is off the system should still retain that the vehicle was in mechanical locked transfer 4x4 low range.
All cars were in low range
@@L2SFBC - thanks for the quick reply.
Good tom see that ford have listen to valid concerns, now can you Please also get them to change the stupid e:shifter for a proper gear lever with proper manual mode shift gate pull to upshift / push to downshift, if they listen to you about the centre diff they will listen to you about he e:shifter.
Thanks for the video !
I would like to see if there’s a major difference if these cars tires were aired down
No principle still applies.
Hi Robert,
I'm curious as to whether cycling through the different off road modes on the Everest (both generations) makes any difference to the centre couping behaviour at rest.
It certainly does on our KL Cherokee Trailhawk....the centre coupling is supposed to be locked in low range, but"rock" is the only mode where it remains locked at rest, the other modes it locks after you start moving.
I actually discovered this accidently by forgetting to take the handbrake off before moving off at one point while low range was engaged, and it skidded the rear wheels while driving the front, and have since played with the system to better work out the coupling behaviour....
Yes in rock mode it's more likely to lock up, same is true of Land Rovers, and it locks 'more'.
You never park anywhere flat or slope without both the parking brake AND transmission in Park (auto) or 1st gear if facing downhill; reverse if facing uphill (manual).
Hand break on my manual Hilux may as well not be there. Same with my caravan.
Fabulous thank you! This should be general knowledge but it is not.
Does the Gen 2 Everest still hold when you turn the engine off?
Yes
I find this interesting as my 07 Subaru Outback with manual transmission and viscous centre differential will not do this it also appears to skid the front wheels as well as the rear wheels if you use the handbrake on a tar Road without depressing clutch. I'm guessing the viscous centre diff is pretty good
I wonder how the parkbrake works in those cars?
@@L2SFBC it's just cable operated it's a drum brake style handbrake inside the rear disc
In that case the centre coupling must somehow lock at rest. Any idea how it works?
@@L2SFBC I believe the viscous centre differential found in manual Subaru transmissions have a kg rating 4 kg and 7 kg I believe that means for every for 1000rmp get kg x of Force splitting the Drivetrain 50/50 . So there must be some "lock up" at 0 RPM I can also recall having the car jacked up at both ends and turning 1 wheel in the front and having 1 wheel rotate in the rear
Ok. It isn't computer controlled so must be some sort of mechanical lock.
So the transfer case/ centre differential does not mechanically locked the front and rear axles?
Not like the older style diffs which were locked 100% unlocked 0%. This is a coupling that can vary 0-100%.
@@L2SFBC can this coupling experience slip in high torque situations?
No
@@L2SFBCThe transfer case is unable to withstand infinite torque, so which part will fail first?
I don't think Ford's engineers have considered a use case of infinite torque
Can you explain what’s happening with doltinthedirt Everest sliding backwards with front wheels locked but not back wheels? Are they using foot brake/handbrake/no brake? What is this telling us? Would this not happen to a 4x4 with centre diff lock in the same situation?
Foot on brake centre diff unlocked.
@@L2SFBC is there any fix or workaround for this ?
All good, but does the Gen 2 handbrake actually work? That’s the improvement every 4WDing Everest owner really wants. The Gen 1 handbrake goes poopy poopy the moment it catches a whiff of mud. Mine has worked for about 2 days in the last 7 years and cost me probably 500 bucks for the privilege
Drums on the back of Gen and Disc's on the back of the Gen 2. That should fix that issue
It worked enough to hold on the hill. I do not have data about long-term durability - join the Everest FB groups and in due course that view will emerge. Yes, the Gen 1 was appalling.
@@velly16vcab good to hear - that should fix it 👍🏼
Yes it’s not an issue on gen2
Is it still a “requirement” I wonder in the gen 2 to do the settling on hand brake before putting in park. Seems this should be fixable with software too but you didn’t test this?
It is yes. Look at the video you can see the car settle.
@@L2SFBC but I wonder if this is still necessary and the "jammed if put directly into park" thing is no longer an issue. The park brake is electronically controlled in G2 (comes on automatically) so its possible it is "aware" and adjusts this accordingly on a slope so that a jammed in park situation is not an issue? Just saying you didn't test this part out. In the manual and from what I've read there is no Ford advice to do this procedure on a hill - that said of course it can't hurt.
We did test it but it's not shown. The procedure is not always described in owner's manuals, like a lot of good driving techniques. You can try it for yourself; choose a very shallow incline, put it into Park, then take it out...it'll be difficult. Then try the process as described.
If my understanding is right, this technique is only applicable when in 4H or 4L and not 2H - correct?
My HJ47 Toyota L/C handbrake worked on the tailshaft, problem solved, i think
Yep👍
My goodness, going backwards in going forwards. Just give me a manual handbrake and stubby leaver.
I have this happen with our manual fwd's on our steep gravel driveway, hop out to check the mailbox and they would start sliding. You have to turn off the engine and put it in gear. Wasn't steep enough to notice in the Prado.