I so sorry! I referred to Siân Phillips as Silvana Mangano. Silvana Mangano actually portrayed the Fremen Reverend mother in the film whilst Siân Phillips portrayed Gaius Helen Mohiam
Phillips was the only actress that I really liked in David Lynch's adaptation. She was a true Reverend Mother, despite being bald, which is an absurd visual effect by the way. They ruined the rest of female characters. Chani and Jessica, both are two of my favorite characters in the book series, and in the movie they're nothing but the beautiful women of the hero, with no personality or charisma.
Truly, you should be the OFFICIAL spokesperson for Dune. Apropos of nothing...or maybe something, in Rise of Skywalker, Rey the granddaughter of Palpatine kills him by way of a dagger (BEFORE the script rework). Alia the granddaughter (Harkonnen raping Mohiam and begetting Jessica, per notes of Frank Herbert, and canonically in Children of Dune) of Barron Harkonnen, kills him with a Gom Jabbar. The 2020's can't get started fast enough for Mssr. Villeneuve's Dune. Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year to you, and to all!
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning." i'ma go take a black shower and pull a few heart plugs now.
Right! That was a big deal in the book. Jessica warned him to lead, but not to become their "messiah." She lost Paul in a way when he chose to unleash the Fremen's "religious fervor"
@@PerfectTroy1 yeah when I was watching it I assumed they were gonna go with the whole “he was the real fascist all along”, and I guess that is subtly there but they deffo don’t do anything with it
@@tobylerone4285 it's my contention that they never got a chance, since there was no sequel. Notice in the "Last Jedi" that Luke is basically Paul in " Children of Dune." Frank Herbert's whole point is that we put too much faith in our leaders and don't question them and that charismatic leaders are dangerous.
To be fair so did the first book, although it was open about the sisterhood planting the seeds ripe for their manipulation. The concept of Paul trapped by his own prescience and knowledge of future consequences came to the fore in the subsequent story.
This is a good example of why some people think Dune is unfilmable: Dune fans can complain that Lynch's Dune glossed over and simplified far too much... but an normal audience member was utterly confused by the complexity of what was happening on screen.
I'm saying this as someone who hasn't watched the movie but has read the book. I'd imagine if they took the time to pace things properly and include more of the explanations about the bene gesserit (like was mentioned), that it would actually probably clear up a lot of the confusion about what was happening? I feel like it can be said with most movies, but dune especially that if you have the big plot points and action packed scenes but leave out a large chunk of source material that ties together why the events in the story are happening then it's probably very confusing to watch if you haven't already read the book
You are right and also movie studios at the time were not into producing stories as franchises that spanned more than one film. Which is odd because Planet of the Apes was done at about the same time and was planned from the beginning to span multiple films and did quite well.
I just finished the reading the book and and thought to myself “damn how are they going to translate this into a movie” haha ive never seen the original movie or the miniseries
EXACTLY. It's actually a pretty good movie, but my main problem with it is about an hour into it just gets way too confusing and stays confusing till it ends.
Carlos Santillan it’s gonna be adapted into a movie series soon enough tho, it honestly might topple Star Wars as a sci-fi franchise depending on how it goes, and I hope it does too bc star wars is kind of losing it tbh
I'd imagine various levels of attractiveness, the most being used as concubines manipulating the Major Houses while the less attractive are able to infiltrate the various societies and gather intel and manipulate the populace Daphne doing the laundry may raise some suspicions while Velma would not.
David Lynch’s Dune was never truly seen. The actual cut is a mess of a cut the studio forced. I still like his vision I just wish I got to see what the cut truly should’ve been.
@@fu3ar503 So did I. And if you look at the line Fatboy added after that: “If you walk without rhythm, you’ll never learn”, he’s trying to imply that attracting the whatever-it-is is a _good_ thing.
@@GorrilaJohnson "Walk without rhythm and we won't attract the worm" is a direct line from the movie. The idea/concept is definitely from the book, but I don't remember it ever stated out loud to someone in exactly that way.
I have a theory that Paul being a special “God” was a studio demand in order to emulate Luke Skywalker being Jedi with magic powers. There were so many movies and series made as their respective studio’s own Star Wars . The ironic part here, as we know, is that they’re all actually Dune inspired without knowing it since Star Wars took so much influence from Frank Herbert’s masterpiece.
Producer Dino De Laurentis wanted indeed to produce his "own Star Wars" franchise. He first tried with "Flash Gordon",which bombed (ironically,G.Lucas wanted to make a F.Gordon movie but couldn´t get the rights and that led him to create Star Wars) and then with Dune. They even had plans for actionfigures and all kinds of merchandise. David Lynch wanted originally to incorporate more stuff from the books,but De Laurentis told him: "Make it more like Star Wars". He had the script re-written und completely butchered the movie in editing,because they wanted a 2hr. movie. Couple of years ago,the studio offered Lynch to make a director´s cut and he refused,because he´s still so pissed and frustrated about how De Laurentis treated him.
Paul is functionally a God but the gag is that he's a genetically engineered God who has no real free will and whose powers were all calculated and predetermined. Even his ability to 'see' the future becomes a prison.
Lynch's Dune holds a very special place in my heart. It introduced me to Dune which is now my favourite book series, and it was my Introduction to David Lynch who has become my favourite director. If it wasn't for this movie I would never have seen Twin Peaks, or even given surreal films a chance. A lot of who I am came from this film. I love it
I'd just like to mention that pacing, voiceovers, lack of subtlety and nuances, and probably different other problems *are* *not* *David's* *fault.* The film was recut to make it shorter, the voicovers were added due to studio meddling, and in the end Lynch was so disappointed with the resulting crap he never speaks of this film again, and now he demands full creative control whenever he makes a movie. Just think of Lynches movies in general - is there a single film with problems like "simplistic", "not enough nuance", "voiceover"? You probably laugh out loud just by reading the question and thats the correct answer indeed. LoL no. It's not what Lynch does. Now on the other hand one dimensional silly villain Harkonnen may very well be Lynches fault. But thats another topic :)
@joe bloggs It's Hollywood tradition that when a director does not want to be credited for a film (in this case the much sloppier 4 hour TV version) that they will be credited as "Alan Smithee" instead.
@@brandonmoran6639 society's, for making a crap piece of movie more accessable to a kid than a masterpiece of a novel. No one's, because it's not a fault. What I meant was that it acted as a gateway, so that in and of itself is a value. No fault at all.
@Rhett Broadby The thing is, in my opinion, that the topics in Dune are more complex than for example LOTR or ASoIaF/GOT. LOTR being a fairly simple story each movie was 178 min. GOT 10 episodes per season around 60 min per episode, so for the 1º season that is the 1º book it was 10 HOURS. So WE ALL KNOW that if the 1º movie tanks its bye bye DUNE, what do you think could have more success in order to complete the all story, so it does not die in the first try: a) Two 3hr/180min films b) A 10-12 hours series???
Having seen the movie yesterday and absolutely loving it, I can now see really see what you talked about here, especially the Bene Gesserit role and the Fremen portrayal. Villeneuve did sooo much better than Lynch in portraying them, they feel like a genuine tribal folk and convey such a characteristic vibe. Also Skårsgard as Baron Harkonnen is spine chilling to say the least. I can't wait another two years for the next one
@@jhBravo It is like a lot of bulky setting-emphasizing books. In this case, the formula is you write a book and shove in a bunch of references to things from the library.
Another thing the movie glosses over (and maybe this can be forgiven because it only covers book 1) is that not only is Paul not a supernatural savior, he is actually the anti-savior of the Fremen, bringing their destruction. Paul's Jihad rages across the galaxy, making them water-fat and decadent. By the time of the stone-burner attack on Paul, Fremen were already selling off their culture to outworlders looking for authentic Fremen artifacts. Water-richness, the opportunity to live off world in comparative luxury... not to mention many of the best of a generation dying in Jihad... these all completely eroded Freman culture. By the time of the death of Leto II, the Fremen had been all but destroyed, what few left living in a sham of tradition that had lost all meaning. Paul was no friend to the Fremen, much as he wanted to be, he was their undoing. Paul, and Leto II, had to conqueror the galaxy to make the Golden Path a reality (so they thought), and the cost of that consequence was the Fremen themselves. Paul as a character was very much an example of the failings of a messiah figure.
True, but the pursuit of "kyne's Dream", to turn Arrakis into a green planet. Which had started even before Paul arrived. Would ended changing fremen culture any way....
This is why I love 'Dune'! It continues to make people think. I can't wait for this next 'Dune' movie so more discussions like this are a hot topic for a few weeks
I haven't read the whole series yet, but, from the first book, I took it not as the Fremen wanting to forever stay that poor hard living culture. Like many real cultures that espouse such a thing, what they really wanted was that easy rich life that the people they looked down on had.
The voiceovers were an excellent way to illustrate what people were thinking. I remember being impressed by that as it is so hard to reflect things that go on inside people's heads, I thought it was very well done and integral to the story. I last read Dune at age 12 though, your videos have sort of motivated me to read them again, especially as I never got past Children of Dune.
My wife recently asked me, "Is Lynch's Dune a good movie?", and I told her, that it is great, if you know how to watch it. Having seen this movie in different versions several times and having read the book several times, it is easy to see what was changed and why, and what was skipped due to poor editing. Despite all the flaws, the actors, the sets, the music, overall design and feel is great. It could have been better, yes, but in a different world, where movie studios work differently. Let's appreciate what we've got.
@@michaelmichaelagnew8503 I read the book first, and was very happy with the adaptation...would I have been happier with an 11 hour series a la "I, Claudius"? Of course.
@@michaelmichaelagnew8503 On the contrary. I always tell people to read the book first because a lot of the book is left out so some stuff that happens in the movie can make no sense and be confusing. Yes, reading the book first results in better understanding the movie, but it also is frustrating so I understand where you're coming from. I still think it's best to have read the book first and then appreciate the movie for its attempt at bringing a great book to life.
I was born in 1981 - This movie had a huge impact on my childhood. Was my dads favourite film for many years while growing up, although much of the deeper meanings and concepts simply escaped me back then. I just finished 'Sandworms of Dune' a couple of weeks back. Listened to all 8 audio books while walking my dog over 2019. MIND BLOWN! Am starting the saga again next year... Murbella - Is my favourite character, such a boss! Although I will say I enjoyed Frank's books a lot more then Brian's. Still great, and pleased he finished his Dads work but I did have a sense of a spark or something missing.
A year later and the new Dune movie is as close as to the book as possible for a movie. I loved the designs of the ships and the acting of the actors. The movie left me wanting more-to see more of the world of Arrakis
true, Bibllical movies are most of the time horrible, reading the Bible itself is at least R-Rated often Xrated, Its Got Body Horror, Horror, adult tehemas, catstrophe, real politics, religious fanaticims, pragmatism, piety etc etc etc . The Old Testament is easily better then LOTR, DUNE & GOT combined. The New Testament is equally impressive and resolves the plot unexpectedly but satisfactory. Revelation returns to the epicness of the OT and concludes with destruction and rebirth of earth.
I am extremely hyped for basically every aspect of Denis Villeneuve’s take on Dune, I think the part I am most excited for is Stellan Skarsgård as the baron, I really think he’ll bring some well deserved justice to the character
Commenting a year later... while waiting and waiting and knowing I'll be disappointed but hoping against hope I'm wrong... And after watching all the trailers, and getting not a good feeling from them... I think this is the FIRST time i got tired of a movie before it was ever released
Odd, to me the voice overs of inner monologues in Lynch is the best part. It’s original and gives the movie such a powerful mood. Other missteps by Lynch withstanding.
Yeah! I agree i missed it in the new movie! I mean the inner monologues of the characters in the old movie really make you feel like you are "living" the book if that makes sense :) sadly lynch's adaptation had other issues for many reasons but it also got much right in my opinion
I love every moment of the Lynch movie. I dont care if it was a mess. its the most magnificent mess ever created. All the characters were over the top. The lines are great. The action was great. It is campy and fun. Even the deviations from the book are good. Sets, Actors, Music perfect. I cant wait to see the new adaption of course, but the Lynch version will probably remain my favorite.
I agree with you completely. I love it too. It’s hugely entertaining, without exception, in every scene, and its flaws seem to enhance rather than diminish its hokey magnificence. The film is beautifully produced, the sets and costumes are gorgeous, and it’s full of startling, strange details that lodge in your brain forever. Even after a single viewing, the rich panoply of these alien worlds remains vividly in your head, allowing you to revisit scenes in your mind, even years after you’ve last seen the film on screen.
I saw Dune (1984) in theater in 1984. They gave us a sheet of paper which was a "glossary of names/places/terms" kinda thing. That was the first and last time I ever got a paper glossary before seeing a movie. But don't care, 100% agree you Lloyd! LOOOOVE the 1984 movie!
It's a great movie. It has it's issues but every scene is like a work of art. The mood, feel, and texture put you on an alien planet. It really looks and feels like it was shot on four different planets. It is like no other movie I've seen.
Strange. I regard the weirding modules as much worse than the final rainstorm. At least the storm concludes the story, making Paul into an undeniable Messiah (able to apport the waters of his homeworld to Arrakis) and instantly realising the dreams of every Fremen man and woman. I kind of think that if Dune (the book) had ended that way and no sequels had been written, we'd all be ok with the rain.
@@ScytheriaReborn the problem with that and the reason why I consider it much worse than the module is that it turned Paul into a God, a supernatural God With A Capital G, which was the opposite of what the story was all about. Remember Lsst Temptation of Christ, where the filmmaker had Jesus reject his death and gets down from the cross? Except that Paul's transformation into supernatural Godhood had no sense of irony. Furthermore, it was an act that had ignorance of consequences equal to Trump nuking a hurricane.
When I saw the film after reading the book I remember being livid at the disparity of themes beteeen book and film more than anything. Dune is a sort of tragedy, a story of the inevitability of destiny and how little is actually in our control. The movie ends almost triumphantly, which confused the hell out of me, remembering Paul's realization that whether he lived or died whole planets would burn in his name.
Yeah, I think a lot of people unfairly blame Lynch for everything terrible in Dune without realizing that the producers played a big part in ruining it. That doesn't mean that Lynch didn't make some bad decisions, and that I still don't think he was meant to direct Dune, but I believe that if Lynch had final cut, we'd be able to look back on it much more fondly. He even filmed the original ending for the book where the Lady Jessica says to Chani that "History will call us wives", but it was scraped for the nonsensical rain ending :/
There's a huge edit on TH-cam called the Novel Cut, it's about 5 + hours split into 10 minute clips. It includes almost every deleted scene and tries to stay as accurate to the book as possiblel, while including what's best in the film. It's very much a fan edit, but it's by far the best version of the film.
I've always loved the movie. It was one of the first sci fi movies I ever saw and I got to see it in the theater so it means a lot to me. Of course I understood nothing back then and I was left with incredible imagery. I know it's not like the book but rare is a movie close to the original book. I enjoy it for its own sake. The music, costumes, actors, story, sets, worms, etc. Everything to me is wonderful.
Agreed. Funny thing was that my mum and old man were both sci-fi fans, but it was mostly pop stuff like trek and wars franchises. Saw the film as a kid on the big screen, and I knew I didn't get it, but such a difference in quality of sci-fi, that Lynch's movie is what led me to read the books, and led to a new view on the genre into the reading, beyond franchise films. Maybe not for all, but for some eighties kids this at least opened some of our eyes beyond just the pop stuff of the day. Just a thought. Thank you for the time.
@@TheAlanRaptor Great, now I have a mental image of Paul Atreides showering Chani with $20 bills. I don't know whether to hate you or tip my hat to you for such unintendedly expert trolling.
I agree with you to a point, but I did get that vibe about the Bene Gesserit that you say is from the book . It is merely more subtle than the book. David Lynch should have been allowed to make 3 movies from the book. This movie is one of the reasons Lynch doesn't want to work for Hollywood anymore. The producers tied both hands behind his back... I think he did a great job despite that fact.
That’s right,he eventually went on to make two movies showing how Hollywood fucks up movies. And it also happened to him when ABC started strong arming him in the early 90's with Twin Peaks.
@@alanpennie8013 I like it so much I used to say it before drinking something. Then I experience the weird stares from others. :) I stopped saying it until I know the person was into Dune. Otherwise, I look like an insane person saying it. But it is still a cool mantra.
I remember watching David Lynch's Dune as a kid. I loved the setting of the story, the costumes, and the high level of technology that existed in their society. The scenes that I enjoyed watching, were of course the battles between the houses, especially the Atreides defence of their Arakeen stronghold against the Harkonnen surprise attack. Sir. Patrick Stewart yelling out "Long live Duke Leto!" will always ring true in my heart. I'm grateful for the movie, because it introduced me to Frank Herbert's universe.
I love the movie of Dune, and without the movie I never would have picked up the book, then books, then all of Herbert's published works. I do not think any movie, in the coming two movies will be able to portray the book to it's intent. You would need to have a movie set per section of the book not just two movies. There is so much backstory in Herbert's work, not mentioning the post Frank Herbert Dune series, that it would make the Lord of the Rings series seem short in order to portray it correctly. Everything has to be characterized in order to get the basics down even in multiple hour movies / mini series.
Oh, and the extended, non-offical cuts which combined the broadcast television, the theatrical, and footage I have no idea where it came from is out there on the net and does help a bit in understanding. The Sisterhood and the Navigators for instance are never really shown to be such enemies in the films or tv even though both have drastically altered their makeup with the Spice. Hell, I don't think Face Dancers were even in the original movie and why were they milking a feline for a poison antidote, that was just goofy.
In this day and age Dune shouldn't be in a theater. It could dwarf Game of Thrones and could make any subscription service the 'water cooler' standard for years. The streaming media is viable for something much bigger. Feature films are too short for real depth and are not long enough for staying power long term. Streaming services are the present and the future.
@@UpcycleElectronics I could see each book in the series being an entire season, 20+ one hour episodes, for Dune and it carrying it off well. Some of the books might take two or three seasons, God Emperor, while others shorter, but still epic in scale and length to tell the story the way it was originally written.
@@KatrinaLeFaye Someone needs to tell a story like Dune on a streaming service but have the presence of mind to withhold their ego/creative ambition and apply their creative talent as the professional curator of the story. Simple entertainment value and finances are always a priority in the real world, but, to my knowledge, no one has taken a franchise with a grassroots fanbase on a journey where accuracy is paramount, then attempted to own the creative story. We need someone to film the foundations of original books, then tell their own creative stories that completely adhere to the foundational framework. This could create a franchise that redefines the entire visual storytelling industry and peripheral supporting markets. There's an ad circulating right now with Lynch saying "all it takes to make a film is 70 cards with ideas." I'm saying someone needs to have the foresight to make 7000 cards with the same creative diligence as they would for 70. Many of those 7k cards can be blocks of blanks to be filled in later. Once the cards are made, the creative story must be final. No future creative revision is permitted. No studio has had this level of foresight and investment in a franchise. Every franchise produced thus far has been molested to various degrees. People tire of the same stupid stories and 2 dimensional plots retold by the latest egomaniac hotshot director that quarterly (absent)minded speculative investors fall behind. No one has had the foresight to realize they could eclipse a corporate giant like Disney if a single franchise were to become a lifework type of affair for a real artist. I'm saying, someone, eventually, will realize the potential and own a franchise in a way that is more advanced than has ever been done before. They will creatively overshadow the book instead of the other way around. This was never possible before streaming services became so popular. Time was the limiting factor. That era has passed, but no one has explored the potential of our new age. I wish Dune was the franchise of choice for this, but it is not. Mark my words though, in the next 20 years there will be a new franchise that eclipses everything that is and has been made on film to date. Someone will be a real artist, a story writer on film, not a creative story interpreter. There will be no excuses made about the books versus films. We will only speculate and chat about what hasn't been explored or defined yet. That is only possible on a streaming service where time is not a limiting factor and the value of exploring a franchise is unlimited. Star Trek, Star Wars, James Bond, DC and Marvel Comics were all interesting case studies that show the long term potential. Now someone needs the vision, funding, and freedom to make one epic story their creative life's work and end game. The result will be a billion dollar franchise that spans generations.
@@KatrinaLeFaye so you've read all the original Dune books by Frank Herbert? Are they any good? I heard they start to off the rails and deteriorate in quality especially after the 3rd one.
Dune needs a Game of Thrones like T.V. show that has 20 episode seasons thats the only way it would work basically each season is 1 movie/book so you have over 20 hours of screen time to accurately translate the books to screen.
@@dukedangles9712 I’m happy you enjoyed it but we’ve been waiting 35+ years for a new Dune Movie just for it to be another incomplete story and the studio clearly didn’t know this would be the final product. Dennis Villanueva clearly did this under their noses he was supposed to have the full book adapted, but what’s done is done. I’ll watch Dune part 1.2 when Dune part 2 comes out in 2023 hopefully.
@@ruyacloud9016 Denis agreed to make the movies if he could make 2 for the first book, he originally wanted to film them back-to-back but the studio wouldn't go for it. In the end he agreed to a deal of making the first part and if it went well they would allow a part 2 to be made. So everyone involved agreed and knew it wouldn't be just one movie needed.
So the studio was the one that asked Lynch to have Rabban munch a cow, the studio is the one that suggested Lynch have the whole nonsense about milking the cat? Because the running time of the movie is only a minor problem, the majority is Lynch's weird fetishes. That said, I can totally believe some Hollywood exec told Lynch that Dune needs lazer guns, 'cos "lazer = sci-fi!!!" in the minds of most people. Hence the creation of the "weirding modules" (however, the gibberish shouted is all Lynch's work).
@@tomservo5347 Sorry Tom, that's simply not possible. Lynch never finished shooting. His director's cut would have to include scenes that were never shot. He never finished Dune. He ran over time and budget, studio yanked his footage and hacked it down to the too short form we know, and all the problems that brought. To get a true Lynch version, we need to go back in time and somehow let him finish shooting that last 20% or so.
@@Ammeeeeeeer That is matter of taste. Lynch is fucking weird, no doubt. But he is my favorite weirdo in Hollyweird. Hell, I actually like Eraserhead and have a wild, not safe for work, interpretation of what it means ;) It's cool to not like Lynch's weirdness. Most don't. I'm the minority opinion here. But the reason I like this film, despite being a fan of the book, is that I am also a fan of Lynch. Those weird things you mention that Lynch added? That's the reasons for me to like this version. The Lynchness of it. for me, makes up for the deviation from the book. If I were not a Lynch fan, I'd hate this version for how it screwed up the novel. So basically, the very same weird Lynchisms you hate are the very same reasons I enjoy this film despite it's deviation from the book I love.
It’s going to be a pc sjw reboot. The uncut version and theatrical I liked even though they weren’t 100% accurate. Reason to make a shitty remake for money. Sting being in the original made it cult.
DV W I did like the new blade runner because it wasn’t a reboot but a sequel. If they do it right sure I hope for the best but most new stuff is commie reboot propaganda. I agree with you on that and hope it’s not bad like the new mad max. Also what I liked about the dune movie was the model work. Best model work I think.
I absolutely loved lynch's ability to edit down his 6 hr version into what we got to see. It was filled with implications instead of outright spoken exposition. There were a lot of things missing of course, and some characters were created nearly in opposition of their original, but mostly it was true to the spirit of the book.
It’s my favourite movie, tied with one other. Despite the limitations of film tech of those days, a short runtime for the story portrayed, obscene production difficulties, it’s an incredible movie! It totally pulled me into the Duniverse. I like the comically villainous Baron with his skin disease, though at this point the book and movie versions have conflated in my mind. I love the prologue with Virginia Madsen. The voiceover whispering adds to the atmosphere, and it is a highly atmospheric experience. The actor’s voices have really stuck with me. Though, the extended one does have ridiculous exposition, the cinematic one is good. Maybe the miniseries did capture the Baron right, but I just couldn’t stomach how irredeemably it portrayed Paul and everything else. I think the rain scene cane from the fact that they were going to make more Dune movies but after the production troubles Lynch surely know it wouldn’t come to pass so he made as best as hoc conclusion as he could. And it’s that not that ridiculous since in the books Paul did prepare and threaten to destroy the worms and spice. Paul splitting the ground with his voice is not what happens in the books, but it is consistent within the movie, and it’s a powerful moment when he surpasses tech and bends readily to his will without the modules. And the “my name is a killing word” scene justifies the modules.
David Lynch‘s fight with the movie studio is one of the more epic. One thing I would like to know more about is exactly what did David Lynch want and what exactly did the movie studio force him to change? From what I understand if it was up to Lynch it would’ve followed the book much more and been a much longer film. It has also been my understanding, although I may be wrong, that the weirding devices was something that the studio forced upon him. Perhaps that would be a great video idea for the future, the differences between David Lynch‘s vision and what the studio forced him to create.
A main point that was completely overlooked in Lynch's DUNE was that indeed the Bene Gesserits wanted to mix the Atreides' bloodline with the Harkonnen's but failed to see that Jessica WAS the Baron's own illegitimate daughter herself, and when she birthed both Paul and Alia the "breach" was already sealed. Jessica without knowing this part had done it already and I would say the Sisterhood had failed to see it. Granted is that their Prescient powers were incomplete because they didn't have the Male Genetic memory, which is the whole reason of making the Kwissatz Haderack, a male Bene Gesserits because he would have both Male and Female Genetic Memories. But another thing that had been unexpected was that Paul was also trained as a Mentat by Thufir Hawatt, and Paul was at the level of being a Mentat already. In fact many records forward refer to him as the Mentat Emperor Muad'Dib seen in subsequent novels. This is why Paul was more than the Kwissatz Haderack, he was something more and unexpected and the sole reason why he also could not be controlled by the Sisterhood. The point on Alia's abomination was that she was brought to consciousness in the womb as an embryo and she also had both male and female Genetic Memories, but being that she was not yet fully formed, she had no defenses against the voices of ancestral memory that a Kwissatz Haderack has. Being susceptible to the Personas in the Ancestral Gene pool inside would basically make the person insane, as Alia inevitably became. What saved Paul's kids Leto II (III) and Ghanima? Paul being a vector in them and for them as well as them connecting with them when they were born. He wasn't able to see them in Prescience because they were like him and had his powers, and it is learned throughout the novels that Prescient people become invisible to others with Prescience. Alia hadn't been able to achieve full Prescience because of the voices inside, she was never able to have the strength to quiet them, and the Baron being big and enigmatic preceded over the other voices inside Alia and dominated over them just like he was in real life. This family connection was completely overlooked in the Lynch's film and was stupidly left out. But then again, I based on the stupid portrayal of the Baron in the film it would had been extremely awkward to have Jessica being his daughter and Paul and Alia his Grandkids lol. The Sci Fi series did wonders with this as far as giving Paul the Baron's temple finger rubbing mannerism at one point to hint at the connection. Another thing Sci Fi did better than even the novel was revealing the connection much later than in the novel itself. It gave it weight, while the novel was like "As a matter of fact, you are his daughter" "Whaaat? Meeeee!?" "Damn! oh well, Ok" lol.
I hope the new movies are good, I'm just so jaded with the vast majority of Hollywood these days that I'm afraid they will be too heavily influenced by producers who don't understand the books and assume that viewers are as stupid as they are and also wouldn't understand them.
This movie is so lovingly weird. I know of nothing even remotely close to it's scope and depth. Everytime I see a scene of it, I want to see the whole movie again. That's testament to it's quality.
Well I'm not sure whether you've realized it but David Lynch is a pseudonym for "weird", though I did not realize it at the time, as it was the first David Lynch movie I ever saw. Didn't seem to help either that David Lynch wasn't the first choice for direction of this movie - it was Ridley Scott...
Good stuff. I didn't read the book's so growing up on David's film introduced me to the lore and aesthetic, which is most appealing to me, and this new film looks to do even better. Pretty cool world building IMO.
Yes. However, it was awesome! There was a line in the book where Paul said "my name has becoe a killing word." He was talking about his name becoming a battle cry among the Fremen. As off book as it was, having the Weirding Module use MUADIB! as the most explosive word was awesomer.
I like the miniseries and wish it had the benefit of the resources that Lynch had for the film. I think if you combined the script of the miniseries with the production design (sets, costume effects etc) and cast of the film, you'd end up with a pretty solid adaptation of the book.
@@tmage23 The second part is the best IMO. Although there are some added scenes and flash forwards into Children of Dune that is not in Dune Messiah, I think it was brilliant. A less resource demanding book to begin with, though. And it is much darker. It gets to the root of what Frank Herbert wanted to say with his books. Paul Atreides was not a typical hero. Instead he was trapped by his prescience and unable to steer away from a Imperial wide mass slaughter. He couldn't take the Golden Path but walks away into the desert to try to undo himself at the end.
A very hermetic analysis of the miniserie: more loyal to the book +10. Some good actors some less +5. Visually looks atrocious -10 (not referring to lack of budget). Final vote 5. :/
Two things I most remember about Dune. Sting's "I WILL kill him!" Alicia Witt's Alia " He IS the Kwisatz Haderach !" and that slow motion shot of her reveling in the carnage.
I always wanted to hear your thoughts on the original Dune. Nice to finally hear them. I always found the story to be a mess, but the film is such a bizarre and creative experience that it is so memorable.
I loved hearing the characters thoughts too. Literally one of my favorite things about the movie cause it gives it more depth. I find it insanely weird that some people don't like it. If you removed them the whole movie would feel less emotional.
This is one the most memorable movies I had ever seen. It just carves these gorgeous images and sounds in one's brain. Love it, just love it- saw it at least 50 times, and I always discover something new.
He had also given up on making the film less than half way through the shooting. It's one of those pieces of Lynch's career that he does not like to talk about.
It bombed at the box office. Even being a fan back then, it was very hard to sit through almost 5 hours of a movie. It was a much different movie than the one most people see today and even noticeably different after it was pulled and recut for a shorter theatrical time. One of my biggest complaints about the opening night version was all the voiced thinking. 70% of the entire movie was voice overs of what the characters were thinking instead of them speaking. I later saw an interview Of the Director and his vision was to make the movie in such a way that it would appeal and look fresh in any language.
I think you overstate the importance of the weirding ways for the fighting capabilities of the fremen, they are capable of defeating sardaukar even before they receive Paul’s training. It’s Herbert’s way of saying that extreme living conditions forms extreme tough fighters (e.g Sardaukar Vs fremen). Being able to teach them something in addition, only allowed Herbert to portray Paul as a leader of warriors as well, despite his fairly young age.
I dunno dude. They basically asked him to teach them. They felt they needed it. I don't think they needed it only to be better as warriors (cuz like you mention they were cool even before) but more like to control their bodies and endurance. It is said that the bene gesserit witch could move a single muscle in her pinky finger without moving any other in her whole body. Imagine being a tough as nails killing machine, but with an ability to perform the most tiny surgeon-like movements in battle, and knowing your body precisely, controlling every cell of it. The fedaykin were therefore much more dangerous than Fremen.
The original reason for the Weirding Way was because, while the Fremen were great knife fighters, they weren't so hot at hand to hand. That's what Stilgar said the Jessica anyway,
@@ADADEL1 This is correct - I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to go back and read that passage. Part of Stilgar's point was that the only way to tell a Fremen from most of the natives of Arrakis was that they carried a Crysknife, and with the training Jessica and Paul could give them the Fremen could be just as deadly (or deadlier!) without a knife and could then infiltrate the villages more effectively. Remember that even before the Atreides arrived the Fremen were already secretly better fighters than the Sardaukar, who were thought to be the best fighters in the Imperium.
Fair critique, I think Lynch needed to make the Baron 'cartoonish' as a villain that would not turn off the audience. Most people would find the pedophile Baron too much.
I doubt that. Considering Lynch made Blue Velvet two years later (a movie containing graphic sexual violence, which some people got really mad over), he seems like the last person to want to avoid something like that. Which makes the fact that he DID all the more confusing.
This is like people complaining about the Netflix Witcher series. In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with the David Lynch movie. It’s a movie that made people go read the books.
@Manuel Wie It was strange for me. I tried to read the book about 8 years ago but I got lost in all the high sci-fi and crazy terminology, but after watching the film a few days ago and going back to the book it's been a treat. It gave me enough context to understand the terminology and the setting a bit better, and now I am absolutely adoring the book.
I had already read the books and LOVED LOVED LOVED the movie despite it's flaws, even the first time I saw it... in part because ANY attempt to bring those books to life was absolutely awesome to me!!!
Indeed. It is an example of how music can make the movie. Without the right music, it's just not the same movie and can never achieve the same inspiration.
there's a pretty short list of the things I like in Lynch's flick : - lady Jessica - the Duke - Patrick Stewart (because I love TNG) - the worms - the Harkonnen home world aesthetic - the princess intro - the mutated navigator -
Patrick Steward is just marvellous and makes me smile whenevever I see him in a film. That being said, he didn't fit the role of Gurney Halleck at all.
The Navigator scene is utterly awesome. And especially so since the ones in the book are just some guys. It was only in Messiah that they became weird mutants.
As I am progressing in the book after the 2021 movie. Whenever I search a certain topic, I always manage to find one of your videos. Thank you for all these videos in my journey with dune universe.
Thank you for the breakdown. I always enjoyed the David Lynch version for the story it was. I never read the book nor did I watch the miniseries because people had told me it was different and I didn’t want to spoil my experience. Now that I have a better understanding of what to expect as far as those differences are, I feel I’ll be able to enjoy the new one without critical comparison.
I remember thinking, "Uh-oh' after seeing some pre-release info of the Lynch film (yeah, I'm that old LOL) but being excited to see it -- and how weird it felt to find a member of the theater staff standing at the entrance of the theater handing out mimeographed(?) pages printed on both sides with definitions of terms used in the film & a quick who's who of the main characters. That's never a good sign.
I read the book in 1975, and I remember thinking Lynch could never pull it off. He worked so hard to hit all the characters and myriad plotline beats that it felt more like a CliffNotes distellation rather than a film adaptation of the novel. He got the details but none of the spirit, the meaning and mood. I liked the SciFi mini-series better, but was still not satisfied. Maybe 3rd time's the charm?
This Movie is one of my favorite Sci Fi movies. I loved the book and I loved that movie. When you make any movie from a book you have to make cuts in the story unless you want to make another Lord of the Rings like Trilogy. If they want to do that that would be great. That seems to be the trend now so I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they do.
Though if anything, the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy showed that even doing a trilogy doesn't necessarily save you from missing the core of the work while celebrating the surface.
I guess that I was lucky in a way when I saw the film back in 1984. I hadn't read the book at that time, so I was able to enjoy the film as it was. I've found that it's better to see a film "cold", so there are no disappointing moments or foreshadows of anything on screen. I read an article that quoted Frank Herbert saying " the story is all there ". The only thing that he said that he would have liked to have seen was the banquet scene, but he understood that due to budget, time constraints and story flow, it was left out.
I remember being freaked out watching this movie in a theater as a 10 yr. old. Visually stunning with a moving soundtrack , this movie ranks at the top of my all time favorite sci/fi's.
Agreed, knowing that the baroque design of Dune was the main inspiration for the signature aesthetic for Warhammer 40,000 makes it even more significant.
the production design on Dune 1984 was first-rate. Really outstanding and maybe the best set design of any sci fi movie ever! The sets were works of art, the designer managed to capture the combination of very old with "futuristic" shall we call it, perfectly.
I loved the new Dune. After watching it, it prompted me to re-watch David Lynch's Dune.. does it have it's flaws? yes, in so many ways as discussed, here it's hard to cram so much into a 2 hour movie and even the extended t.v. cut has major and massive holes in it. I grew up watching this with my dad we would even watch it annually lol, for that it will always have a special place in my heart. we watched the new one together and compared it the whole way through to Lynch's Dune. but it's that definite connection that I have with it that makes me enjoy it.
Lynch's Dune was fantastic. I'm trying to get through the book now. I've gotten to the betrayal and the Harkonens taking Arrakis back and so far it's almost exactly the same. Lynch did far better copying Dune that he gets credit for.
I saw the movie in the theater when I was 8 and don’t remember much. Reading the book now as an adult. I appreciate your synopses and interpretations. Thanks so much!
When I was a kid I loved every bit of David Lynch's Dune from the weirding modules to creepy Aaliyah to Toto's soundtrack, it was fantastic and dreamlike and I watched it, Big Trouble in Little China and the Lion King on repeat. (In hindsight I'm surprised at half the stuff I watched in my black Evangelical everything is the devil household 😂) By the time I was 12 I read the series and it blew my mind and for a few years it wrankled my love of the movie it was so much richer and complex, also I totally agree SyFy had a more accurate Baron he was decadent not disgusting, and cunning not maniacal. I eventually came to appreciate Lynch's Dune as own its thing but became proselytizer of Herbert's novels, even when shown Jodorowski's Dune (I had always been a fan of Jodo and Moebius as I 'borrowed" my brothers Heavy Metal books when he was in the Marines) I felt Jodorowski's version also missed the mark. I am excited about the new Dune but I will keep my hopes on accuracy to Herbert's vision in check until the movie is seen.
Hi, I just found your channel, and I like a lot of your summaries and analyses. I wanted to jump in in defense of Lynch's depiction of the different factions, especially as we can compare it to the most recent interpretation of the story. One element of the Dune universe that is key to understanding the political/social structure of the universe is the monopoly on interstellar travel, and the resultant insular monocultures that develop from this type of system. This gives Herbert the perfect grounds for experimenting with ideal types of leadership in his writing, revealing the flaws of the Harkonnens, the Corrinos, the Bene Gesserit, the Fremen, and even the Atreides. Herbert is largely focused on the perils of different types of leadership, and having each civilization located on a single planet with minimal contact has led to these diverse, and often strange, cultures that are almost destined to clash. And this is something that I think Lynch was actually very savvy about. While the different factions in Lynch's Dune seem animated to the point of being unrealistic, I think that was kind of the point. We aren't supposed to identify with these different groups, they are nothing like us increasingly cosmopolitan Earthers. And so when the Baron seems over the top, that seems more like a feature than a bug. And Lynch did this for all the factions. Instead of the muted and bland Villeneuve spacing guild, we actually see the monsters, we see the cosmetic alterations of the guild, we see that that they are *different*. The mentats actually have stained lips and do inexplicably computery things, they don't merely roll their eyes back and look like they're just thinking hard. I do think Villeneuve wasn't unaware of this, and for example Dr. Yueh in the Villeneuve version seemed much more *alien* than in the Lynch version, but in terms of degree I think Lynch did this a lot more. Certainly this is a stylistic choice by Lynch, but I think it better highlights the nature of this disparate universe than a more subdued telling.
There's lots to love in Lynch's Dune, it's grown on me over the years. The worms and Guild Navigators were awesome, although admittedly some of the special effects were pretty awful even in 1984. Costumes and makeup were very cool, especially the stillsuits, and the Bene Gesserits with their shaved heads and the huge eyebrows of the Mentats. Although what was up with the Sardaukar wearing haz mat suits? Toto's music was great, very evocative. One major gripe: too much gross out violence. Was it necessary? Why did Baron Harkonnen have a disgusting skin disease?
It was actually in the book, the reverend mother sent to breed with him gave him that disease to disfigure him, because he was so proud of his body, when he raped her violently.
The story of Dune is one of my all time favorites. I spent my entire career as an Infantryman, with several deployments throughout the Middle East & North Africa. Most leaders have their “go-to” to help them find a place of peace of mind & decompress & re-focus; mine was finding the most private spot I could, just before sun-down, then listening to my favorite music from the original soundtrack. It was the calm-serene- mystical music from when Paul and family finished folding space, arriving at Dune. While listening to this, on loop, watching the sun set in some far away place, meant more to me than I have words for. Full hearted thank you to you for doing the work & effort to keep your fellow Dune fans informed!!!
OMG SO glad I found your channel - long story short my dad was a huge fan of Dune and he unfortunately passed away last September. I had never watched the movie in full and my only memory of it as a kid was being terrified of Alia screaming “he is the Kwisatz Haderach!” at the end when it was on HBO or something. I saw it was on HBO Max the other day so I figured I’d finally watch it and like many viewers who never read the book or knew anything about it I was beyond confused and thinking “why in the HELL would he be into this mess?!” - but your videos have helped me figure things out and I now have some sense of understanding about the Dune universe - Hopefully when the new movie comes out I won’t be as dumbfounded as when I watched the 1984 one!
I like the movie as well; it caused me to read the book which I loved even more. It probably was the film with most inner dialog that I ever seen. I hope that we'll get some Count Fenring in the new one hmm ahhh. As for Baron's death, I understand where you're coming from, but a quite instant death of a main antagonist would be hard to work out in the film medium. Love your channel, always look forward to your postings.
I am with you ... loved the look, music and most of the casting in Lynch's Dune. What REALLY disappointed me was the Weirding Module. The Fremen beat the Emperor's forces because they were just damned excellent fighters, not because of superior weaponry.
I love Lynch's portrayal of the Baron. It's over-the-top on the surface but there is depth, complexity and very real qualities in those facial expressions. Volatile, out of control, depraved, mentally diseased, insane, comical all at the same time. it's super interesting. Lynch is a master when it comes to crazed characters. Jodorowsky's idea of a floating baron is genius.
Funny thing: Frank Herbert himself thought Lynch’s _Dune_ was a great adaptation of his book. The never-made Jodorowsky version may have been more faithful, but Herbert was not a fan of it.
Jodorowsky's version was literally not going to be faithful in the slightest. Read up on the script sometime. Herbert called it a trainwreck for a reason. Also his praise for the Lynch movie always struck me as a little weak: "Yeah it's called Dune and it has my dialogue in it. It's great." Idk that's just me.
Jodo was going to be a Trainwreck...but a glorious one. I would give anything to transverse into that alternate dimension where that film was actually made.
Didn't Jodorowsky refuse to even read the novel? He very much wanted to do his own thing. As far as I can tell, Jodorowsky had exactly 2 really good ideas. Concept art from Salvador Dali, and a score to be done by Pink Floyd. And holy shit, that last part actually happened!!!!! Mind still blown to hear Eclipse in that trailer. I never dared to hope to finally hear Floyd on a Dune soundtrack.
@@voodoochild1975az - iirc Salvador Dali was going to be an actor, not an artist. Also he had Orson Welles as the Baron, which probably would have been the best casting for the character there would ever be ever. Aside from that yeah. Fucking trainwreck.
I actually love this movie. I consider it a cult classic. I wish they would remaster and release the extended version! Having said that, I know it doesn't follow the book too close. So, I'm really looking forward to the new Dune movie!
Imagine hopefully quite soon we can tell an A.I to make a movie based more on a more accurate representation of a book and create our own blockbuster movies and share them. The better ones would become super popular and there is no limit to sequels as you could ask the A.I to continue the story based on the style of the writer. Amazing! With this added tool the creativity involved in writing a book can also be instead applied to a movie which then could potentially change the way in which we make fiction from words to a full on virtual, realistic simulation of what the writer imagines. In a way I think that this could be considered a new kind of medium and artform for entertainment, education and socio economic development.
I love the "thoughts" voice-overs in this movie. And love the weirding module idea. I think Lynch's portrayal of Paul is perfect for a one story movie. I don't think they had plans on making sequels. In the context of it being the only story of Dune it was a good ending. In the context of the Dune saga... yeah it fails in key ways.
Funny, I always miss the missing pieces when they make a movie. Unless those pieces are in direct conflict with the book I just fill in the missing pieces in the movie with the book. The book Dune is totally in need of a GOT type start, but not finish with a three or four year run - start to finish - to cover the book Dune only. Otherwise you will never get in all the nuances. IE Ix, the mentats or the spacing guild to name a few. I read Dune nine times in my twenties and still to this day pick up more things that I have missed on a reread. Keep up your dissection work on the Dune series. Always a pleasure to read or hear different points of view.
Gotta admit, I've read the Dune book several times, the book series at least twice, and watched the movie dozens of times and never picked up on the horror of a people's implanted beliefs going psycho. I think the movie muddied it up for me since I was first exposed to Dune through it when I was a child. Thanks, Quinn. This analysis has completely shifted my view of the series.
i like the voice overs cause it makes it feel slighty dreamlike and mystical. the guy who they got to play leto was exactly how i imagined him when reading the book
I would very much like to see a similar comparison with the original book vs. that tv mini series from the 2000s. Personally I think it turned out better than David Lynch's film probably because the newer sfx don't look as dated yet and the fact that between the two parts dune and children of dune it's about 8 hours (I think they're 4 hours a piece?) So that does give it a lot more time to break down the nuances and set the stage. All in all I think the miniseries is the best dune media we've got so far, but here's hoping dune 2020 will be much much better.
I really liked the actor cast as the Baron in the SyFy series, but the rest of the writing/acting and especially the silly costumes put me off it so badly that I never finished the first part of it.
Just read the book, watched the movie the next day (today) and the first thought that I had was that the adaptation NEEDS to be a duology, the book has a rich enough setup and a couple of story climaxes with a pretty clear cutoff point (the 2 year time skip) after the first climax, which would make for a good ending for the first film. It's also obvious in the Lynch film that after that point the movie falls apart in a break-neck pace to reach the final climax, with all the important story points falling off along this desperate race to finish the story, turning it into a giant mess, not even mentioning the questionable creative decisions regarding the portrayal and motivations of the Guild, the Sisters and their designed prophecies and the Harkonens. So I was really glad to hear from you that Dennis actually understands this and is planning a 2 part movie, never doubted him as a capable director and storyteller but this fact reassures me that the story will be portrayed with all the attention and care for the details it deserves.
I think it would work better as a trilogy: Dune Muad'Dib The Prophet That's how the book's structured. And whilst Muad'Dib is a little shorter than the other two, it's still long enough for a complete movie. And there's enough content in there for a movie, with Paul becoming more of a Freman and learning their ways, and Liet-Kynes's death scene, and Paul training the Fremen, and Paul's romance with Chani, and also some Harkonnen plotting with Hawat's help. But a duology could work. They could conjoin Muad'Dib to Dune and it would flow, and then have The Prophet as the second movie.
Saw this movie in the theater (remember those?????) in '84 with my son who was 13 at the time...we both LOVED it! I had not read the book but was moved to do so. Was surprised a very important piece of plot information was left out of the movie. I won't say what here, I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read the book. As some have said here it's great, it's silly, it's magnificently campy (think Sting's performance) but we all love it anyway. I think I have a DVD, now I need to find it and watch this again! ;-)
I so sorry! I referred to Siân Phillips
as Silvana Mangano. Silvana Mangano actually portrayed the Fremen Reverend mother in the film whilst Siân Phillips
portrayed Gaius Helen Mohiam
If you haven't already would you please do the miniseries version of this thank you love the videos
Phillips was the only actress that I really liked in David Lynch's adaptation. She was a true Reverend Mother, despite being bald, which is an absurd visual effect by the way. They ruined the rest of female characters. Chani and Jessica, both are two of my favorite characters in the book series, and in the movie they're nothing but the beautiful women of the hero, with no personality or charisma.
Truly, you should be the OFFICIAL spokesperson for Dune.
Apropos of nothing...or maybe something, in Rise of Skywalker,
Rey the granddaughter of Palpatine kills him by way of a dagger (BEFORE the script rework).
Alia the granddaughter (Harkonnen raping Mohiam and begetting Jessica, per notes of Frank Herbert, and canonically in Children of Dune) of Barron Harkonnen, kills him with a Gom Jabbar.
The 2020's can't get started fast enough for Mssr. Villeneuve's Dune.
Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year to you, and to all!
@@zannaifacedancer5915 yes I agree completely. Lynch didn't read the same novel I did, apparently...
Did you see both versions? The theatrical and uncut. The uncut version was way longer.
The David Lynch Dune gave us one great thing. Patrick Stewart saying "Mood is a thing for cattle and loveplay!"
He also said like a wild ass in the desert, I go forth to my work LMAO
Not to mention the best touch of all: BATTLE PUGS
the phrase "It is the legend" was another gift, I think it was Stilgar. I still use this phrase on occasion when something great happens.
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning."
i'ma go take a black shower and pull a few heart plugs now.
@@David-bc4rh nowhere is that in the book. Although Brad Dourif was a great choice for literally any character in Dune
Yeah, that’s my main problem with the Lynch movie: they played the “Chosen One” trope straight.
it's based on the myth of Horus and Set + elements of Gnostic Christianity.
Right! That was a big deal in the book. Jessica warned him to lead, but not to become their "messiah." She lost Paul in a way when he chose to unleash the Fremen's "religious fervor"
@@PerfectTroy1 yeah when I was watching it I assumed they were gonna go with the whole “he was the real fascist all along”, and I guess that is subtly there but they deffo don’t do anything with it
@@tobylerone4285 it's my contention that they never got a chance, since there was no sequel. Notice in the "Last Jedi" that Luke is basically Paul in " Children of Dune." Frank Herbert's whole point is that we put too much faith in our leaders and don't question them and that charismatic leaders are dangerous.
To be fair so did the first book, although it was open about the sisterhood planting the seeds ripe for their manipulation. The concept of Paul trapped by his own prescience and knowledge of future consequences came to the fore in the subsequent story.
This is a good example of why some people think Dune is unfilmable: Dune fans can complain that Lynch's Dune glossed over and simplified far too much... but an normal audience member was utterly confused by the complexity of what was happening on screen.
I'm saying this as someone who hasn't watched the movie but has read the book. I'd imagine if they took the time to pace things properly and include more of the explanations about the bene gesserit (like was mentioned), that it would actually probably clear up a lot of the confusion about what was happening? I feel like it can be said with most movies, but dune especially that if you have the big plot points and action packed scenes but leave out a large chunk of source material that ties together why the events in the story are happening then it's probably very confusing to watch if you haven't already read the book
This is what I’ve been saying for years. It infuriates readers of the book and alienates everyone else
I’m the audience member who is utterly confused
You are right and also movie studios at the time were not into producing stories as franchises that spanned more than one film. Which is odd because Planet of the Apes was done at about the same time and was planned from the beginning to span multiple films and did quite well.
I just finished the reading the book and and thought to myself “damn how are they going to translate this into a movie” haha ive never seen the original movie or the miniseries
The Problem: It's not 15 hours
dattmavid1 Needs to be a series. A looooong series.
Please if there are japanese animation studios watching this: produce an anime covering the 6 books :)
exactly!!
EXACTLY. It's actually a pretty good movie, but my main problem with it is about an hour into it just gets way too confusing and stays confusing till it ends.
Carlos Santillan it’s gonna be adapted into a movie series soon enough tho, it honestly might topple Star Wars as a sci-fi franchise depending on how it goes, and I hope it does too bc star wars is kind of losing it tbh
regarding the Bene Geserit I always imagined them as attractive since looks can be a powerful weapon in manipulating people.
I would say it's essential. Absolutely required. Women can't manipulate men without it.
I'd imagine various levels of attractiveness, the most being used as concubines manipulating the Major Houses while the less attractive are able to infiltrate the various societies and gather intel and manipulate the populace
Daphne doing the laundry may raise some suspicions while Velma would not.
Well rebeca ferguson sure is the definition of physical attractiveness to me lol
No one is more stunning and regal than Francesca Annie. But I’m happy with the casting of Ferguson.
@@GungfuRichard
Cleopatra was average looks and had effect on men..lol
David Lynch’s Dune was never truly seen. The actual cut is a mess of a cut the studio forced. I still like his vision I just wish I got to see what the cut truly should’ve been.
Thank you
tigress and the u-fraidees You’re welcome! David Lynch had his name from removed from any cut that was released so I see it as a studio problem.
Agree 100%. I still love the movie. But it could have been so much more.
Check out dune redux, by spice driver
I wish we got to see jodorowskys version.
Also, the Lynch _Dune_ gave Fatboy Slim the line “If you walk without rhythm, you won’t attract the worm” that he used in “Weapon Of Choice”.
I honestly thought the lyric was “walk without Rythym, it won’t attract the woman” until today.
Mind Blown!
@@fu3ar503 So did I. And if you look at the line Fatboy added after that: “If you walk without rhythm, you’ll never learn”, he’s trying to imply that attracting the whatever-it-is is a _good_ thing.
Also in the early 90's I remember a UK electronica band had a music video in which they wore the stillsuits from the movie.
But walking without rhythm was in the book too, how do we know he took it from the movie?
@@GorrilaJohnson "Walk without rhythm and we won't attract the worm" is a direct line from the movie. The idea/concept is definitely from the book, but I don't remember it ever stated out loud to someone in exactly that way.
I have a theory that Paul being a special “God” was a studio demand in order to emulate Luke Skywalker being Jedi with magic powers. There were so many movies and series made as their respective studio’s own Star Wars . The ironic part here, as we know, is that they’re all actually Dune inspired without knowing it since Star Wars took so much influence from Frank Herbert’s masterpiece.
Small Man, Big Mouth that would make a lot of sense contextually.
Producer Dino De Laurentis wanted indeed to produce his "own Star Wars" franchise. He first tried with "Flash Gordon",which bombed (ironically,G.Lucas wanted to make a F.Gordon movie but couldn´t get the rights and that led him to create Star Wars) and then with Dune. They even had plans for actionfigures and all kinds of merchandise.
David Lynch wanted originally to incorporate more stuff from the books,but De Laurentis told him: "Make it more like Star Wars". He had the script re-written und completely butchered the movie in editing,because they wanted a 2hr. movie.
Couple of years ago,the studio offered Lynch to make a director´s cut and he refused,because he´s still so pissed and frustrated about how De Laurentis treated him.
Have you seen the documentary on Jodorowsky's Dune?
Paul is functionally a God but the gag is that he's a genetically engineered God who has no real free will and whose powers were all calculated and predetermined. Even his ability to 'see' the future becomes a prison.
Hornytoad
Wasn’t he also a generation early thou?
Lynch's Dune holds a very special place in my heart. It introduced me to Dune which is now my favourite book series, and it was my Introduction to David Lynch who has become my favourite director. If it wasn't for this movie I would never have seen Twin Peaks, or even given surreal films a chance. A lot of who I am came from this film. I love it
I'd just like to mention that pacing, voiceovers, lack of subtlety and nuances, and probably different other problems *are* *not* *David's* *fault.* The film was recut to make it shorter, the voicovers were added due to studio meddling, and in the end Lynch was so disappointed with the resulting crap he never speaks of this film again, and now he demands full creative control whenever he makes a movie. Just think of Lynches movies in general - is there a single film with problems like "simplistic", "not enough nuance", "voiceover"? You probably laugh out loud just by reading the question and thats the correct answer indeed. LoL no. It's not what Lynch does. Now on the other hand one dimensional silly villain Harkonnen may very well be Lynches fault. But thats another topic :)
I wish we had a directors cut !
joe bloggs Alan smithee is not a real name! It’s when a director disowns a film! 🤡🤡🤡🌍🌍🌍
joe bloggs Alan smithee is when a director walks away from a film and disowns it. Jesus look it up! 🤡🤡🤡🌍🌍🌍
@joe bloggs It's Hollywood tradition that when a director does not want to be credited for a film (in this case the much sloppier 4 hour TV version) that they will be credited as "Alan Smithee" instead.
Hanniffy Dinn I managed to get a hold of the 3 hr cut. Doesn’t really help much or deepen all that much.
People pan this movie so badly but if it wasn't for this film, I would have never read the books.
This
exactly!
Whose fault is that
@@brandonmoran6639 society's, for making a crap piece of movie more accessable to a kid than a masterpiece of a novel.
No one's, because it's not a fault. What I meant was that it acted as a gateway, so that in and of itself is a value. No fault at all.
T Chenard I blame the schools
For all its flaws, I love this movie, and have seen it dozens of times. Just for the design alone, it's a masterpiece.
You should change the name of your channel to "Ideas of (sp)Ice and Fire" :D
I support this endeavor.
Kull Wahad!
Quinn's Ideas is a solid name... They are his ideas after all.
@@bradenleonard6286 missed opportunity to call it Quinnsights
Hahahaha
I'm still convinced that Dune never should be a movie but a series like GOT
@Rhett Broadby The thing is, in my opinion, that the topics in Dune are more complex than for example LOTR or ASoIaF/GOT. LOTR being a fairly simple story each movie was 178 min. GOT 10 episodes per season around 60 min per episode, so for the 1º season that is the 1º book it was 10 HOURS. So WE ALL KNOW that if the 1º movie tanks its bye bye DUNE, what do you think could have more success in order to complete the all story, so it does not die in the first try: a) Two 3hr/180min films b) A 10-12 hours series???
We have the huge budgets to make a TV series based around intrigue and fantastic set design. One day someone will make the definitive series of Dune.
Dune has *way more* density and complexity than GoT. I don’t think it’s even possible to correctly do that kind of world-building in a feature film.
People said the same thing about Lord Of The Rings....
GOT as series ist crap compared to the books, ignoring 3/4 of the Story is not a good adaption.
Having seen the movie yesterday and absolutely loving it, I can now see really see what you talked about here, especially the Bene Gesserit role and the Fremen portrayal. Villeneuve did sooo much better than Lynch in portraying them, they feel like a genuine tribal folk and convey such a characteristic vibe. Also Skårsgard as Baron Harkonnen is spine chilling to say the least. I can't wait another two years for the next one
The Lynch version is really just fine if you read the book, you can go into it with a grain of salt and appreciate the interpretation.
@@jhBravo It is like a lot of bulky setting-emphasizing books. In this case, the formula is you write a book and shove in a bunch of references to things from the library.
Another thing the movie glosses over (and maybe this can be forgiven because it only covers book 1) is that not only is Paul not a supernatural savior, he is actually the anti-savior of the Fremen, bringing their destruction. Paul's Jihad rages across the galaxy, making them water-fat and decadent. By the time of the stone-burner attack on Paul, Fremen were already selling off their culture to outworlders looking for authentic Fremen artifacts. Water-richness, the opportunity to live off world in comparative luxury... not to mention many of the best of a generation dying in Jihad... these all completely eroded Freman culture. By the time of the death of Leto II, the Fremen had been all but destroyed, what few left living in a sham of tradition that had lost all meaning. Paul was no friend to the Fremen, much as he wanted to be, he was their undoing. Paul, and Leto II, had to conqueror the galaxy to make the Golden Path a reality (so they thought), and the cost of that consequence was the Fremen themselves. Paul as a character was very much an example of the failings of a messiah figure.
I don't post many replies to anything, and almost never get comments or thumbs up. This is like a little mini Christmas present. Thanks guys and gals!
*Slow Clap* exactly!
True, but the pursuit of "kyne's Dream", to turn Arrakis into a green planet. Which had started even before Paul arrived. Would ended changing fremen culture any way....
This is why I love 'Dune'! It continues to make people think. I can't wait for this next 'Dune' movie so more discussions like this are a hot topic for a few weeks
I haven't read the whole series yet, but, from the first book, I took it not as the Fremen wanting to forever stay that poor hard living culture. Like many real cultures that espouse such a thing, what they really wanted was that easy rich life that the people they looked down on had.
The voiceovers were an excellent way to illustrate what people were thinking. I remember being impressed by that as it is so hard to reflect things that go on inside people's heads, I thought it was very well done and integral to the story.
I last read Dune at age 12 though, your videos have sort of motivated me to read them again, especially as I never got past Children of Dune.
My wife recently asked me, "Is Lynch's Dune a good movie?", and I told her, that it is great, if you know how to watch it.
Having seen this movie in different versions several times and having read the book several times, it is easy to see what was changed and why, and what was skipped due to poor editing. Despite all the flaws, the actors, the sets, the music, overall design and feel is great. It could have been better, yes, but in a different world, where movie studios work differently. Let's appreciate what we've got.
Andrew Nenakhov its a great movie if you have never read the book. Glad i saw the movie first. I would have hated it if i read the book first.
@@michaelmichaelagnew8503 I read the book first, and was very happy with the adaptation...would I have been happier with an 11 hour series a la "I, Claudius"? Of course.
@@michaelmichaelagnew8503 On the contrary. I always tell people to read the book first because a lot of the book is left out so some stuff that happens in the movie can make no sense and be confusing. Yes, reading the book first results in better understanding the movie, but it also is frustrating so I understand where you're coming from. I still think it's best to have read the book first and then appreciate the movie for its attempt at bringing a great book to life.
I do like the long intro explanation of the uncut version of Dune. It really sets up the universe. I would have someone watch only that lol.
Thats not entertainment, thats homework
I was born in 1981 - This movie had a huge impact on my childhood. Was my dads favourite film for many years while growing up, although much of the deeper meanings and concepts simply escaped me back then.
I just finished 'Sandworms of Dune' a couple of weeks back. Listened to all 8 audio books while walking my dog over 2019.
MIND BLOWN!
Am starting the saga again next year...
Murbella - Is my favourite character, such a boss!
Although I will say I enjoyed Frank's books a lot more then Brian's.
Still great, and pleased he finished his Dads work but I did have a sense of a spark or something missing.
A year later and the new Dune movie is as close as to the book as possible for a movie. I loved the designs of the ships and the acting of the actors. The movie left me wanting more-to see more of the world of Arrakis
To do it justice it needs the "Game of Thrones" treatment, not just a movie or miniseries.
Yeah but it’s boring and nick loads from Lynch’s Dune.
Unfortunately I feel the new film has pacing issues of its own.
The new dune is super mediocre
I do not agree at all - The new movie clearly wanted to have a PG-13 rating and did not really go into the nature of the spice as a drug...
I've often thought that the Lynch film is like a Biblical film in that it's been directed by a true believer, centuries after the events.
true, Bibllical movies are most of the time horrible, reading the Bible itself is at least R-Rated often Xrated, Its Got Body Horror, Horror, adult tehemas, catstrophe, real politics, religious fanaticims, pragmatism, piety etc etc etc . The Old Testament is easily better then LOTR, DUNE & GOT combined. The New Testament is equally impressive and resolves the plot unexpectedly but satisfactory. Revelation returns to the epicness of the OT and concludes with destruction and rebirth of earth.
@@universalflamethrower6342 Its a terrible read beloved of bigots.
@@rorykeegan1895 yes you run from it because you are a sinner and follower of Satan
@@universalflamethrower6342 lol what a joke guilt trapped you hard
@jabroni destroyer younger than Brandon
I am extremely hyped for basically every aspect of Denis Villeneuve’s take on Dune, I think the part I am most excited for is Stellan Skarsgård as the baron, I really think he’ll bring some well deserved justice to the character
Stellan Sk was great in the series Chernobyl. He combined authority with supporting the scientists trying to deal with the situation.
i hope Feyd-Rautha is portrayed by Mr Skarsgård's son Alexander.
Commenting a year later... while waiting and waiting and knowing I'll be disappointed but hoping against hope I'm wrong... And after watching all the trailers, and getting not a good feeling from them... I think this is the FIRST time i got tired of a movie before it was ever released
So I just saw this movie and this Baron character got a few minutes in it. It didn't seem like he brought well-deserved justice though.
Greetings Earthling, I am from the future.. Denis' Dune is Decadently Dazzling.
Odd, to me the voice overs of inner monologues in Lynch is the best part. It’s original and gives the movie such a powerful mood. Other missteps by Lynch withstanding.
Yeah! I agree i missed it in the new movie! I mean the inner monologues of the characters in the old movie really make you feel like you are "living" the book if that makes sense :) sadly lynch's adaptation had other issues for many reasons but it also got much right in my opinion
@@jackcanox4015 Nah it got annoying.
DL's movie is like a live action anime with the inner monologues.
I agreee!
@@drakashrakenburgproduction5369 What if the inner monologues were just spoken rather than whispered I wonder.
I love every moment of the Lynch movie. I dont care if it was a mess. its the most magnificent mess ever created. All the characters were over the top. The lines are great. The action was great. It is campy and fun. Even the deviations from the book are good. Sets, Actors, Music perfect. I cant wait to see the new adaption of course, but the Lynch version will probably remain my favorite.
Glad to meet another fan.
I didn't enjoy this movie when I saw it years ago. I read the books first. I will rewatch this movie sometime to see if I've changed my mind about it.
I agree with you completely. I love it too. It’s hugely entertaining, without exception, in every scene, and its flaws seem to enhance rather than diminish its hokey magnificence. The film is beautifully produced, the sets and costumes are gorgeous, and it’s full of startling, strange details that lodge in your brain forever. Even after a single viewing, the rich panoply of these alien worlds remains vividly in your head, allowing you to revisit scenes in your mind, even years after you’ve last seen the film on screen.
I saw Dune (1984) in theater in 1984. They gave us a sheet of paper which was a "glossary of names/places/terms" kinda thing. That was the first and last time I ever got a paper glossary before seeing a movie. But don't care, 100% agree you Lloyd! LOOOOVE the 1984 movie!
It's a great movie. It has it's issues but every scene is like a work of art. The mood, feel, and texture put you on an alien planet. It really looks and feels like it was shot on four different planets. It is like no other movie I've seen.
That weirding module was just a wacky shortcut; the rain was a real betrayal.
Yes!
If only this film lost its last few minutes it would be greater than Citizen Kane.
The planet is terraformed by book two so...was it meant to be literal?
@@cjhepburn7406
Good point.
Might be a call out to Pardot Kynes and his vision of open water.
Strange. I regard the weirding modules as much worse than the final rainstorm. At least the storm concludes the story, making Paul into an undeniable Messiah (able to apport the waters of his homeworld to Arrakis) and instantly realising the dreams of every Fremen man and woman. I kind of think that if Dune (the book) had ended that way and no sequels had been written, we'd all be ok with the rain.
@@ScytheriaReborn the problem with that and the reason why I consider it much worse than the module is that it turned Paul into a God, a supernatural God With A Capital G, which was the opposite of what the story was all about. Remember Lsst Temptation of Christ, where the filmmaker had Jesus reject his death and gets down from the cross? Except that Paul's transformation into supernatural Godhood had no sense of irony. Furthermore, it was an act that had ignorance of consequences equal to Trump nuking a hurricane.
When I saw the film after reading the book I remember being livid at the disparity of themes beteeen book and film more than anything. Dune is a sort of tragedy, a story of the inevitability of destiny and how little is actually in our control. The movie ends almost triumphantly, which confused the hell out of me, remembering Paul's realization that whether he lived or died whole planets would burn in his name.
The Lynch movie is a complete travesty.
I’m glad somebody agrees with this perspective. So many people love Lynch’s Dune. I think it is one of the worst movies I have ever seen.
The 3 hour long extended cut really is a good adaptation, sadly the producers cut half the film out and made it a complete mess.
Yeah, I think a lot of people unfairly blame Lynch for everything terrible in Dune without realizing that the producers played a big part in ruining it. That doesn't mean that Lynch didn't make some bad decisions, and that I still don't think he was meant to direct Dune, but I believe that if Lynch had final cut, we'd be able to look back on it much more fondly. He even filmed the original ending for the book where the Lady Jessica says to Chani that "History will call us wives", but it was scraped for the nonsensical rain ending :/
There's a huge edit on TH-cam called the Novel Cut, it's about 5 + hours split into 10 minute clips. It includes almost every deleted scene and tries to stay as accurate to the book as possiblel, while including what's best in the film. It's very much a fan edit, but it's by far the best version of the film.
@@nateblack8669 I love 'Dune' fans for this reason. It's 'Star Wars' smart
@@jeffnicholas6342 I dont understand your comment
@@Actiomedey I like 'Dune' discussions more than 'Star Wars' discussions imo
I've always loved the movie. It was one of the first sci fi movies I ever saw and I got to see it in the theater so it means a lot to me. Of course I understood nothing back then and I was left with incredible imagery. I know it's not like the book but rare is a movie close to the original book. I enjoy it for its own sake. The music, costumes, actors, story, sets, worms, etc. Everything to me is wonderful.
Agree...
Agreed. Funny thing was that my mum and old man were both sci-fi fans, but it was mostly pop stuff like trek and wars franchises. Saw the film as a kid on the big screen, and I knew I didn't get it, but such a difference in quality of sci-fi, that Lynch's movie is what led me to read the books, and led to a new view on the genre into the reading, beyond franchise films. Maybe not for all, but for some eighties kids this at least opened some of our eyes beyond just the pop stuff of the day. Just a thought. Thank you for the time.
@@jamesomeara2329 I totally agree with you!
Book: You have shown you can be of value to us. Teach us this Weirding Way and we will permit you to travel amongst us Fremen
Movie: Gun go CHOW ZOW
Good. Now make it rain. 🤣🤣🤣
@@TheAlanRaptor Great, now I have a mental image of Paul Atreides showering Chani with $20 bills. I don't know whether to hate you or tip my hat to you for such unintendedly expert trolling.
I agree with you to a point, but I did get that vibe about the Bene Gesserit that you say is from the book . It is merely more subtle than the book. David Lynch should have been allowed to make 3 movies from the book. This movie is one of the reasons Lynch doesn't want to work for Hollywood anymore. The producers tied both hands behind his back... I think he did a great job despite that fact.
That’s right,he eventually went on to make two movies showing how Hollywood fucks up movies. And it also happened to him when ABC started strong arming him in the early 90's with Twin Peaks.
An amazing job really.
The mentat mantra alone makes it worth a buy.
True, if I remember correctly Lynch even listed Alan Smithee as director of the film!
@@alanpennie8013 I like it so much I used to say it before drinking something. Then I experience the weird stares from others. :) I stopped saying it until I know the person was into Dune. Otherwise, I look like an insane person saying it. But it is still a cool mantra.
I remember watching David Lynch's Dune as a kid. I loved the setting of the story, the costumes, and the high level of technology that existed in their society. The scenes that I enjoyed watching, were of course the battles between the houses, especially the Atreides defence of their Arakeen stronghold against the Harkonnen surprise attack. Sir. Patrick Stewart yelling out "Long live Duke Leto!" will always ring true in my heart. I'm grateful for the movie, because it introduced me to Frank Herbert's universe.
The sets and art direction were amazing in this movie!
I love the movie of Dune, and without the movie I never would have picked up the book, then books, then all of Herbert's published works. I do not think any movie, in the coming two movies will be able to portray the book to it's intent. You would need to have a movie set per section of the book not just two movies. There is so much backstory in Herbert's work, not mentioning the post Frank Herbert Dune series, that it would make the Lord of the Rings series seem short in order to portray it correctly. Everything has to be characterized in order to get the basics down even in multiple hour movies / mini series.
Oh, and the extended, non-offical cuts which combined the broadcast television, the theatrical, and footage I have no idea where it came from is out there on the net and does help a bit in understanding. The Sisterhood and the Navigators for instance are never really shown to be such enemies in the films or tv even though both have drastically altered their makeup with the Spice. Hell, I don't think Face Dancers were even in the original movie and why were they milking a feline for a poison antidote, that was just goofy.
In this day and age Dune shouldn't be in a theater. It could dwarf Game of Thrones and could make any subscription service the 'water cooler' standard for years. The streaming media is viable for something much bigger. Feature films are too short for real depth and are not long enough for staying power long term. Streaming services are the present and the future.
@@UpcycleElectronics I could see each book in the series being an entire season, 20+ one hour episodes, for Dune and it carrying it off well. Some of the books might take two or three seasons, God Emperor, while others shorter, but still epic in scale and length to tell the story the way it was originally written.
@@KatrinaLeFaye
Someone needs to tell a story like Dune on a streaming service but have the presence of mind to withhold their ego/creative ambition and apply their creative talent as the professional curator of the story.
Simple entertainment value and finances are always a priority in the real world, but, to my knowledge, no one has taken a franchise with a grassroots fanbase on a journey where accuracy is paramount, then attempted to own the creative story. We need someone to film the foundations of original books, then tell their own creative stories that completely adhere to the foundational framework. This could create a franchise that redefines the entire visual storytelling industry and peripheral supporting markets.
There's an ad circulating right now with Lynch saying "all it takes to make a film is 70 cards with ideas." I'm saying someone needs to have the foresight to make 7000 cards with the same creative diligence as they would for 70. Many of those 7k cards can be blocks of blanks to be filled in later. Once the cards are made, the creative story must be final. No future creative revision is permitted.
No studio has had this level of foresight and investment in a franchise. Every franchise produced thus far has been molested to various degrees. People tire of the same stupid stories and 2 dimensional plots retold by the latest egomaniac hotshot director that quarterly (absent)minded speculative investors fall behind. No one has had the foresight to realize they could eclipse a corporate giant like Disney if a single franchise were to become a lifework type of affair for a real artist. I'm saying, someone, eventually, will realize the potential and own a franchise in a way that is more advanced than has ever been done before. They will creatively overshadow the book instead of the other way around. This was never possible before streaming services became so popular. Time was the limiting factor. That era has passed, but no one has explored the potential of our new age. I wish Dune was the franchise of choice for this, but it is not.
Mark my words though, in the next 20 years there will be a new franchise that eclipses everything that is and has been made on film to date. Someone will be a real artist, a story writer on film, not a creative story interpreter. There will be no excuses made about the books versus films. We will only speculate and chat about what hasn't been explored or defined yet. That is only possible on a streaming service where time is not a limiting factor and the value of exploring a franchise is unlimited. Star Trek, Star Wars, James Bond, DC and Marvel Comics were all interesting case studies that show the long term potential. Now someone needs the vision, funding, and freedom to make one epic story their creative life's work and end game. The result will be a billion dollar franchise that spans generations.
@@KatrinaLeFaye so you've read all the original Dune books by Frank Herbert? Are they any good? I heard they start to off the rails and deteriorate in quality especially after the 3rd one.
"Deal with this problem or you will live out your life in a pain amplifier!" - Not in the book, but still priceless.
Henrik G pretty much any line from the movie is delightfully quotable, even if the film itself is a beautiful hot mess.
Remedy this situation, or else...
*slurps murder juicebox*
@@David-bc4rh I always wondered what that little critter was supposed to be in there. Like a little grape-mouse.
@@kev3d Whatever it is, a harkonen wouldn't be drinking it if it weren't psychoactive.
Dune needs a Game of Thrones like T.V. show that has 20 episode seasons thats the only way it would work basically each season is 1 movie/book so you have over 20 hours of screen time to accurately translate the books to screen.
I just saw a great movie that worked lol
@@dukedangles9712 Lol same. Loved the new Dune, can’t way for part 2.
@@dukedangles9712 I’m happy you enjoyed it but we’ve been waiting 35+ years for a new Dune Movie just for it to be another incomplete story and the studio clearly didn’t know this would be the final product. Dennis Villanueva clearly did this under their noses he was supposed to have the full book adapted, but what’s done is done. I’ll watch Dune part 1.2 when Dune part 2 comes out in 2023 hopefully.
@@ruyacloud9016 Denis agreed to make the movies if he could make 2 for the first book, he originally wanted to film them back-to-back but the studio wouldn't go for it.
In the end he agreed to a deal of making the first part and if it went well they would allow a part 2 to be made. So everyone involved agreed and knew it wouldn't be just one movie needed.
@@Ryon97 I’m totally just an angry fan lol just want my fav book to be on the big screen
you have to remember that Lynch intended to make a much longer film, but the studio wanted a 2 hour version, so a lot of things were left out.
This.
I'm begging Lynch to release a director's cut with all of the cut scenes that would have made it over 4 hours long.
So the studio was the one that asked Lynch to have Rabban munch a cow, the studio is the one that suggested Lynch have the whole nonsense about milking the cat? Because the running time of the movie is only a minor problem, the majority is Lynch's weird fetishes. That said, I can totally believe some Hollywood exec told Lynch that Dune needs lazer guns, 'cos "lazer = sci-fi!!!" in the minds of most people. Hence the creation of the "weirding modules" (however, the gibberish shouted is all Lynch's work).
@@tomservo5347 Sorry Tom, that's simply not possible. Lynch never finished shooting. His director's cut would have to include scenes that were never shot. He never finished Dune. He ran over time and budget, studio yanked his footage and hacked it down to the too short form we know, and all the problems that brought.
To get a true Lynch version, we need to go back in time and somehow let him finish shooting that last 20% or so.
@@Ammeeeeeeer That is matter of taste. Lynch is fucking weird, no doubt. But he is my favorite weirdo in Hollyweird. Hell, I actually like Eraserhead and have a wild, not safe for work, interpretation of what it means ;)
It's cool to not like Lynch's weirdness. Most don't. I'm the minority opinion here. But the reason I like this film, despite being a fan of the book, is that I am also a fan of Lynch. Those weird things you mention that Lynch added? That's the reasons for me to like this version. The Lynchness of it. for me, makes up for the deviation from the book.
If I were not a Lynch fan, I'd hate this version for how it screwed up the novel. So basically, the very same weird Lynchisms you hate are the very same reasons I enjoy this film despite it's deviation from the book I love.
It's going to be tough to beat Toto's soundtrack.
So true, I listen to it all the time. I even bought the LP sound track, and I don't even own a turn table lol.
That music stayed with me for life!
It’s going to be a pc sjw reboot. The uncut version and theatrical I liked even though they weren’t 100% accurate. Reason to make a shitty remake for money. Sting being in the original made it cult.
Anti Antifa Nah, Villeneuve made Arrival and the new Bladerunner, both if which are excellent and cannot be interpreted as cheap cash grabs AT ALL.
DV W I did like the new blade runner because it wasn’t a reboot but a sequel. If they do it right sure I hope for the best but most new stuff is commie reboot propaganda. I agree with you on that and hope it’s not bad like the new mad max. Also what I liked about the dune movie was the model work. Best model work I think.
I absolutely loved lynch's ability to edit down his 6 hr version into what we got to see. It was filled with implications instead of outright spoken exposition. There were a lot of things missing of course, and some characters were created nearly in opposition of their original, but mostly it was true to the spirit of the book.
It was complete tosh. The worst adaptation I can think of, bar Cats ....
It’s my favourite movie, tied with one other. Despite the limitations of film tech of those days, a short runtime for the story portrayed, obscene production difficulties, it’s an incredible movie! It totally pulled me into the Duniverse. I like the comically villainous Baron with his skin disease, though at this point the book and movie versions have conflated in my mind. I love the prologue with Virginia Madsen. The voiceover whispering adds to the atmosphere, and it is a highly atmospheric experience. The actor’s voices have really stuck with me. Though, the extended one does have ridiculous exposition, the cinematic one is good. Maybe the miniseries did capture the Baron right, but I just couldn’t stomach how irredeemably it portrayed Paul and everything else. I think the rain scene cane from the fact that they were going to make more Dune movies but after the production troubles Lynch surely know it wouldn’t come to pass so he made as best as hoc conclusion as he could. And it’s that not that ridiculous since in the books Paul did prepare and threaten to destroy the worms and spice. Paul splitting the ground with his voice is not what happens in the books, but it is consistent within the movie, and it’s a powerful moment when he surpasses tech and bends readily to his will without the modules. And the “my name is a killing word” scene justifies the modules.
David Lynch‘s fight with the movie studio is one of the more epic. One thing I would like to know more about is exactly what did David Lynch want and what exactly did the movie studio force him to change? From what I understand if it was up to Lynch it would’ve followed the book much more and been a much longer film. It has also been my understanding, although I may be wrong, that the weirding devices was something that the studio forced upon him.
Perhaps that would be a great video idea for the future, the differences between David Lynch‘s vision and what the studio forced him to create.
A main point that was completely overlooked in Lynch's DUNE was that indeed the Bene Gesserits wanted to mix the Atreides' bloodline with the Harkonnen's but failed to see that Jessica WAS the Baron's own illegitimate daughter herself, and when she birthed both Paul and Alia the "breach" was already sealed. Jessica without knowing this part had done it already and I would say the Sisterhood had failed to see it. Granted is that their Prescient powers were incomplete because they didn't have the Male Genetic memory, which is the whole reason of making the Kwissatz Haderack, a male Bene Gesserits because he would have both Male and Female Genetic Memories. But another thing that had been unexpected was that Paul was also trained as a Mentat by Thufir Hawatt, and Paul was at the level of being a Mentat already. In fact many records forward refer to him as the Mentat Emperor Muad'Dib seen in subsequent novels. This is why Paul was more than the Kwissatz Haderack, he was something more and unexpected and the sole reason why he also could not be controlled by the Sisterhood.
The point on Alia's abomination was that she was brought to consciousness in the womb as an embryo and she also had both male and female Genetic Memories, but being that she was not yet fully formed, she had no defenses against the voices of ancestral memory that a Kwissatz Haderack has. Being susceptible to the Personas in the Ancestral Gene pool inside would basically make the person insane, as Alia inevitably became. What saved Paul's kids Leto II (III) and Ghanima? Paul being a vector in them and for them as well as them connecting with them when they were born. He wasn't able to see them in Prescience because they were like him and had his powers, and it is learned throughout the novels that Prescient people become invisible to others with Prescience. Alia hadn't been able to achieve full Prescience because of the voices inside, she was never able to have the strength to quiet them, and the Baron being big and enigmatic preceded over the other voices inside Alia and dominated over them just like he was in real life. This family connection was completely overlooked in the Lynch's film and was stupidly left out. But then again, I based on the stupid portrayal of the Baron in the film it would had been extremely awkward to have Jessica being his daughter and Paul and Alia his Grandkids lol. The Sci Fi series did wonders with this as far as giving Paul the Baron's temple finger rubbing mannerism at one point to hint at the connection. Another thing Sci Fi did better than even the novel was revealing the connection much later than in the novel itself. It gave it weight, while the novel was like "As a matter of fact, you are his daughter" "Whaaat? Meeeee!?" "Damn! oh well, Ok" lol.
Those of us who read all the books understand and remember this (though I read them over 20 years ago). It is an impossibly rich saga
I hope the new movies are good, I'm just so jaded with the vast majority of Hollywood these days that I'm afraid they will be too heavily influenced by producers who don't understand the books and assume that viewers are as stupid as they are and also wouldn't understand them.
Me as well, though I think Villaneuve is the least likely to commercialise it. He seems more likely to make it into a shallow arthouse film.
This movie is so lovingly weird. I know of nothing even remotely close to it's scope and depth.
Everytime I see a scene of it, I want to see the whole movie again. That's testament to it's quality.
I saw it at age 8 and it blew my head off. I still love it. It's a spiritual experience.
Well I'm not sure whether you've realized it but David Lynch is a pseudonym for "weird", though I did not realize it at the time, as it was the first David Lynch movie I ever saw. Didn't seem to help either that David Lynch wasn't the first choice for direction of this movie - it was Ridley Scott...
Good stuff. I didn't read the book's so growing up on David's film introduced me to the lore and aesthetic, which is most appealing to me, and this new film looks to do even better. Pretty cool world building IMO.
I was so confused when they turned The Weirding Way into Skyrim dragon shouting.
Yeah I thought I missed something major in the book
Yes. However, it was awesome! There was a line in the book where Paul said "my name has becoe a killing word." He was talking about his name becoming a battle cry among the Fremen. As off book as it was, having the Weirding Module use MUADIB! as the most explosive word was awesomer.
Yeah, I used to be a Fedaykin like you, but then I took a Chrysknife in the knee....
Will you make a similar analysis of the miniseries?
Androrac Yes, I would like to see this as well.
I like the miniseries and wish it had the benefit of the resources that Lynch had for the film. I think if you combined the script of the miniseries with the production design (sets, costume effects etc) and cast of the film, you'd end up with a pretty solid adaptation of the book.
Image23 - you nailed it.
@@tmage23 The second part is the best IMO. Although there are some added scenes and flash forwards into Children of Dune that is not in Dune Messiah, I think it was brilliant. A less resource demanding book to begin with, though. And it is much darker. It gets to the root of what Frank Herbert wanted to say with his books. Paul Atreides was not a typical hero. Instead he was trapped by his prescience and unable to steer away from a Imperial wide mass slaughter. He couldn't take the Golden Path but walks away into the desert to try to undo himself at the end.
A very hermetic analysis of the miniserie: more loyal to the book +10.
Some good actors some less +5.
Visually looks atrocious -10 (not referring to lack of budget).
Final vote 5.
:/
Two things I most remember about Dune.
Sting's "I WILL kill him!"
Alicia Witt's Alia " He IS the Kwisatz Haderach !" and that slow motion shot of her reveling in the carnage.
I always wanted to hear your thoughts on the original Dune. Nice to finally hear them. I always found the story to be a mess, but the film is such a bizarre and creative experience that it is so memorable.
How could you NOT like the voiceovers?! It was such a great decision by Lynch because of how the book is written. I agree with your other comments.
@Nathan Guerrette dit Latulippe - Great way to generalize anyone who disagrees with you. HAW!
I loved hearing the characters thoughts too. Literally one of my favorite things about the movie cause it gives it more depth. I find it insanely weird that some people don't like it. If you removed them the whole movie would feel less emotional.
I liked the use of voice overs to communicate the internal thoughts of the characters. It's exactly how the book was written in this regard.
Wife crying
Me mumbling she must be sad
Wife mumbles I am not happy
The Voiceovers are bad for this movie because it fails at the rule of "show, don't tell."
This is one the most memorable movies I had ever seen. It just carves these gorgeous images and sounds in one's brain. Love it, just love it- saw it at least 50 times, and I always discover something new.
Everett McGill as Stilgar was perfect too.
Andy M I will take the boy-man.
The problem with David Lynch's Dune was that there were no sequels to David Lynch's Dune.
He ruined any chance of that by having it rain at the end. 😒
@@digitalbookworm5678 I'm told on good authority, he didn't make it rain at the end.
Ugh no that is a FEATURE of this gaudy abortion.
He had also given up on making the film less than half way through the shooting. It's one of those pieces of Lynch's career that he does not like to talk about.
It bombed at the box office. Even being a fan back then, it was very hard to sit through almost 5 hours of a movie. It was a much different movie than the one most people see today and even noticeably different after it was pulled and recut for a shorter theatrical time. One of my biggest complaints about the opening night version was all the voiced thinking. 70% of the entire movie was voice overs of what the characters were thinking instead of them speaking. I later saw an interview Of the Director and his vision was to make the movie in such a way that it would appeal and look fresh in any language.
Took me a long time to finally read Frank Hubert's Dune and I absolutely loved it, read it twice.
I think you overstate the importance of the weirding ways for the fighting capabilities of the fremen, they are capable of defeating sardaukar even before they receive Paul’s training. It’s Herbert’s way of saying that extreme living conditions forms extreme tough fighters (e.g Sardaukar Vs fremen). Being able to teach them something in addition, only allowed Herbert to portray Paul as a leader of warriors as well, despite his fairly young age.
christian emden that must be why all of the desert countries have the greatest militaries. 🤔
Brandon Moran there are many deserts in America 🙃
I dunno dude. They basically asked him to teach them. They felt they needed it. I don't think they needed it only to be better as warriors (cuz like you mention they were cool even before) but more like to control their bodies and endurance. It is said that the bene gesserit witch could move a single muscle in her pinky finger without moving any other in her whole body. Imagine being a tough as nails killing machine, but with an ability to perform the most tiny surgeon-like movements in battle, and knowing your body precisely, controlling every cell of it. The fedaykin were therefore much more dangerous than Fremen.
The original reason for the Weirding Way was because, while the Fremen were great knife fighters, they weren't so hot at hand to hand. That's what Stilgar said the Jessica anyway,
@@ADADEL1 This is correct - I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to go back and read that passage. Part of Stilgar's point was that the only way to tell a Fremen from most of the natives of Arrakis was that they carried a Crysknife, and with the training Jessica and Paul could give them the Fremen could be just as deadly (or deadlier!) without a knife and could then infiltrate the villages more effectively. Remember that even before the Atreides arrived the Fremen were already secretly better fighters than the Sardaukar, who were thought to be the best fighters in the Imperium.
Fair critique, I think Lynch needed to make the Baron 'cartoonish' as a villain that would not turn off the audience. Most people would find the pedophile Baron too much.
I just LOVE how narrators LEAVE OUT PARTS LIKE THAT!?
now im PRAISING da Lynch version!!
I doubt that. Considering Lynch made Blue Velvet two years later (a movie containing graphic sexual violence, which some people got really mad over), he seems like the last person to want to avoid something like that. Which makes the fact that he DID all the more confusing.
Even without the pedophilia the book Baron is a terrifying villain. Lynch could have totally kept his personality intact.
Lynch does not compromise on shit like that. lol at his past films.
I agree with the choice of making him a disguisting horror figure. It saves backstory and delivers a mood.
This is like people complaining about the Netflix Witcher series. In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with the David Lynch movie. It’s a movie that made people go read the books.
I read the book first, that's why Lynch's movie sucked.
@Manuel Wie It was strange for me. I tried to read the book about 8 years ago but I got lost in all the high sci-fi and crazy terminology, but after watching the film a few days ago and going back to the book it's been a treat. It gave me enough context to understand the terminology and the setting a bit better, and now I am absolutely adoring the book.
@Manuel Wie I tried to read it years ago as well and I couldn't do it. Thank God for audible
I had already read the books and LOVED LOVED LOVED the movie despite it's flaws, even the first time I saw it... in part because ANY attempt to bring those books to life was absolutely awesome to me!!!
They both suck 😐
I loved the original Dune film. The music especially, The Final Dream was perfect, I hope they use it again.
Indeed. It is an example of how music can make the movie. Without the right music, it's just not the same movie and can never achieve the same inspiration.
there's a pretty short list of the things I like in Lynch's flick :
- lady Jessica
- the Duke
- Patrick Stewart (because I love TNG)
- the worms
- the Harkonnen home world aesthetic
- the princess intro
- the mutated navigator
-
Patrick Steward is just marvellous and makes me smile whenevever I see him in a film. That being said, he didn't fit the role of Gurney Halleck at all.
Sting!
The Navigator scene is utterly awesome.
And especially so since the ones in the book are just some guys.
It was only in Messiah that they became weird mutants.
the princess intro is out of this world
also the mutated navigator... I did not say this . I am not here.
Alan Pennie apparently FH liked the mutated navs so much that he incorporated them into his later books
As I am progressing in the book after the 2021 movie. Whenever I search a certain topic, I always manage to find one of your videos. Thank you for all these videos in my journey with dune universe.
I love this film, it's what got me into the books.
I love Lynch's Dune! The set and costume designs, the music, the tone... he got so much right, even if the released film could've been better.
Thank you for the breakdown. I always enjoyed the David Lynch version for the story it was. I never read the book nor did I watch the miniseries because people had told me it was different and I didn’t want to spoil my experience. Now that I have a better understanding of what to expect as far as those differences are, I feel I’ll be able to enjoy the new one without critical comparison.
Go read the book ... its nothing like the awful Lynch movie ...
I remember thinking, "Uh-oh' after seeing some pre-release info of the Lynch film (yeah, I'm that old LOL) but being excited to see it -- and how weird it felt to find a member of the theater staff standing at the entrance of the theater handing out mimeographed(?) pages printed on both sides with definitions of terms used in the film & a quick who's who of the main characters. That's never a good sign.
I think this ist Great! Like in the OPERA! There You geht those kind of guides too! Hope You kept IT! 🤗
I read the book in 1975, and I remember thinking Lynch could never pull it off. He worked so hard to hit all the characters and myriad plotline beats that it felt more like a CliffNotes distellation rather than a film adaptation of the novel. He got the details but none of the spirit, the meaning and mood. I liked the SciFi mini-series better, but was still not satisfied. Maybe 3rd time's the charm?
@@katarinatill4713 I did ! I keep it with my poster of Tron !
This Movie is one of my favorite Sci Fi movies. I loved the book and I loved that movie. When you make any movie from a book you have to make cuts in the story unless you want to make another Lord of the Rings like Trilogy. If they want to do that that would be great. That seems to be the trend now so I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they do.
Though if anything, the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy showed that even doing a trilogy doesn't necessarily save you from missing the core of the work while celebrating the surface.
I guess that I was lucky in a way when I saw the film back in 1984. I hadn't read the book at that time, so I was able to enjoy the film as it was. I've found that it's better to see a film "cold", so there are no disappointing moments or foreshadows of anything on screen. I read an article that quoted Frank Herbert saying " the story is all there ". The only thing that he said that he would have liked to have seen was the banquet scene, but he understood that due to budget, time constraints and story flow, it was left out.
I remember being freaked out watching this movie in a theater as a 10 yr. old. Visually stunning with a moving soundtrack , this movie ranks at the top of my all time favorite sci/fi's.
I do like the gilded baroque designs in Lynch’s Dune. My favorite shot is the ships entering the heighliner through a massive golden port.
Visually this film is pure epic.
Agreed, knowing that the baroque design of Dune was the main inspiration for the signature aesthetic for Warhammer 40,000 makes it even more significant.
the production design on Dune 1984 was first-rate. Really outstanding and maybe the best set design of any sci fi movie ever! The sets were works of art, the designer managed to capture the combination of very old with "futuristic" shall we call it, perfectly.
I loved the new Dune. After watching it, it prompted me to re-watch David Lynch's Dune.. does it have it's flaws? yes, in so many ways as discussed, here it's hard to cram so much into a 2 hour movie and even the extended t.v. cut has major and massive holes in it. I grew up watching this with my dad we would even watch it annually lol, for that it will always have a special place in my heart. we watched the new one together and compared it the whole way through to Lynch's Dune. but it's that definite connection that I have with it that makes me enjoy it.
I love the '84 version...silliness and all!
And the music is epic... Toto and Brian Eno!
Lynch's Dune was fantastic. I'm trying to get through the book now. I've gotten to the betrayal and the Harkonens taking Arrakis back and so far it's almost exactly the same. Lynch did far better copying Dune that he gets credit for.
Well you're in a distinct minority with that opinion. "Trying to get through the book"... sheesh.
I saw the movie in the theater when I was 8 and don’t remember much. Reading the book now as an adult. I appreciate your synopses and interpretations. Thanks so much!
Just as an FYI, in case you didn't know: David Lynch consulted frequently with Frank Herbert on the script.
When I was a kid I loved every bit of David Lynch's Dune from the weirding modules to creepy Aaliyah to Toto's soundtrack, it was fantastic and dreamlike and I watched it, Big Trouble in Little China and the Lion King on repeat.
(In hindsight I'm surprised at half the stuff I watched in my black Evangelical everything is the devil household 😂)
By the time I was 12 I read the series and it blew my mind and for a few years it wrankled my love of the movie it was so much richer and complex, also I totally agree SyFy had a more accurate Baron he was decadent not disgusting, and cunning not maniacal.
I eventually came to appreciate Lynch's Dune as own its thing but became proselytizer of Herbert's novels, even when shown Jodorowski's Dune (I had always been a fan of Jodo and Moebius as I 'borrowed" my brothers Heavy Metal books when he was in the Marines) I felt Jodorowski's version also missed the mark. I am excited about the new Dune but I will keep my hopes on accuracy to Herbert's vision in check until the movie is seen.
Hi, I just found your channel, and I like a lot of your summaries and analyses. I wanted to jump in in defense of Lynch's depiction of the different factions, especially as we can compare it to the most recent interpretation of the story. One element of the Dune universe that is key to understanding the political/social structure of the universe is the monopoly on interstellar travel, and the resultant insular monocultures that develop from this type of system. This gives Herbert the perfect grounds for experimenting with ideal types of leadership in his writing, revealing the flaws of the Harkonnens, the Corrinos, the Bene Gesserit, the Fremen, and even the Atreides. Herbert is largely focused on the perils of different types of leadership, and having each civilization located on a single planet with minimal contact has led to these diverse, and often strange, cultures that are almost destined to clash. And this is something that I think Lynch was actually very savvy about. While the different factions in Lynch's Dune seem animated to the point of being unrealistic, I think that was kind of the point. We aren't supposed to identify with these different groups, they are nothing like us increasingly cosmopolitan Earthers. And so when the Baron seems over the top, that seems more like a feature than a bug. And Lynch did this for all the factions. Instead of the muted and bland Villeneuve spacing guild, we actually see the monsters, we see the cosmetic alterations of the guild, we see that that they are *different*. The mentats actually have stained lips and do inexplicably computery things, they don't merely roll their eyes back and look like they're just thinking hard. I do think Villeneuve wasn't unaware of this, and for example Dr. Yueh in the Villeneuve version seemed much more *alien* than in the Lynch version, but in terms of degree I think Lynch did this a lot more. Certainly this is a stylistic choice by Lynch, but I think it better highlights the nature of this disparate universe than a more subdued telling.
There's lots to love in Lynch's Dune, it's grown on me over the years. The worms and Guild Navigators were awesome, although admittedly some of the special effects were pretty awful even in 1984. Costumes and makeup were very cool, especially the stillsuits, and the Bene Gesserits with their shaved heads and the huge eyebrows of the Mentats. Although what was up with the Sardaukar wearing haz mat suits? Toto's music was great, very evocative.
One major gripe: too much gross out violence. Was it necessary? Why did Baron Harkonnen have a disgusting skin disease?
The Baron was depicted that way to visually show the hideousness corruption of his self--thus they didn't have to explain as much.
It was actually in the book, the reverend mother sent to breed with him gave him that disease to disfigure him, because he was so proud of his body, when he raped her violently.
Well, compared with what Jodorowski was planning to do with it, Lynch's version is a masterpiece.
The story of Dune is one of my all time favorites.
I spent my entire career as an Infantryman, with several deployments throughout the Middle East & North Africa.
Most leaders have their “go-to” to help them find a place of peace of mind & decompress & re-focus; mine was finding the most private spot I could, just before sun-down, then listening to my favorite music from the original soundtrack.
It was the calm-serene- mystical music from when Paul and family finished folding space, arriving at Dune.
While listening to this, on loop, watching the sun set in some far away place, meant more to me than I have words for.
Full hearted thank you to you for doing the work & effort to keep your fellow Dune fans informed!!!
i love the voice over internal monologues fite me
I'd prefer a more long-form video that really goes into all of this more objectively, there's good things here that deserve more exploration.
OMG SO glad I found your channel - long story short my dad was a huge fan of Dune and he unfortunately passed away last September. I had never watched the movie in full and my only memory of it as a kid was being terrified of Alia screaming “he is the Kwisatz Haderach!” at the end when it was on HBO or something. I saw it was on HBO Max the other day so I figured I’d finally watch it and like many viewers who never read the book or knew anything about it I was beyond confused and thinking “why in the HELL would he be into this mess?!” - but your videos have helped me figure things out and I now have some sense of understanding about the Dune universe - Hopefully when the new movie comes out I won’t be as dumbfounded as when I watched the 1984 one!
I like the movie as well; it caused me to read the book which I loved even more. It probably was the film with most inner dialog that I ever seen. I hope that we'll get some Count Fenring in the new one hmm ahhh.
As for Baron's death, I understand where you're coming from, but a quite instant death of a main antagonist would be hard to work out in the film medium.
Love your channel, always look forward to your postings.
@Feanor
I like your thinking.
For the Baron's death, I'd see Alia putting a slow/painful poison on the Gom Jabbar instead of insta-kill
I am with you ... loved the look, music and most of the casting in Lynch's Dune. What REALLY disappointed me was the Weirding Module. The Fremen beat the Emperor's forces because they were just damned excellent fighters, not because of superior weaponry.
I love Lynch's portrayal of the Baron. It's over-the-top on the surface but there is depth, complexity and very real qualities in those facial expressions. Volatile, out of control, depraved, mentally diseased, insane, comical all at the same time. it's super interesting. Lynch is a master when it comes to crazed characters. Jodorowsky's idea of a floating baron is genius.
oh yes, Lynch really turns Baron harkonnen into a very disgusting creature
Funny thing: Frank Herbert himself thought Lynch’s _Dune_ was a great adaptation of his book. The never-made Jodorowsky version may have been more faithful, but Herbert was not a fan of it.
Jodorowsky's version was literally not going to be faithful in the slightest. Read up on the script sometime. Herbert called it a trainwreck for a reason.
Also his praise for the Lynch movie always struck me as a little weak: "Yeah it's called Dune and it has my dialogue in it. It's great." Idk that's just me.
Jodo was going to be a Trainwreck...but a glorious one. I would give anything to transverse into that alternate dimension where that film was actually made.
Didn't Jodorowsky refuse to even read the novel? He very much wanted to do his own thing.
As far as I can tell, Jodorowsky had exactly 2 really good ideas. Concept art from Salvador Dali, and a score to be done by Pink Floyd.
And holy shit, that last part actually happened!!!!! Mind still blown to hear Eclipse in that trailer. I never dared to hope to finally hear Floyd on a Dune soundtrack.
@@voodoochild1975az - iirc Salvador Dali was going to be an actor, not an artist.
Also he had Orson Welles as the Baron, which probably would have been the best casting for the character there would ever be ever.
Aside from that yeah. Fucking trainwreck.
@@voodoochild1975az H.R. Giger did the Concept Art. For that reason alone I would have wanted to see it.
I actually love this movie. I consider it a cult classic. I wish they would remaster and release the extended version! Having said that, I know it doesn't follow the book too close. So, I'm really looking forward to the new Dune movie!
Imagine hopefully quite soon we can tell an A.I to make a movie based more on a more accurate representation of a book and create our own blockbuster movies and share them. The better ones would become super popular and there is no limit to sequels as you could ask the A.I to continue the story based on the style of the writer. Amazing! With this added tool the creativity involved in writing a book can also be instead applied to a movie which then could potentially change the way in which we make fiction from words to a full on virtual, realistic simulation of what the writer imagines. In a way I think that this could be considered a new kind of medium and artform for entertainment, education and socio economic development.
I love the "thoughts" voice-overs in this movie. And love the weirding module idea. I think Lynch's portrayal of Paul is perfect for a one story movie. I don't think they had plans on making sequels. In the context of it being the only story of Dune it was a good ending. In the context of the Dune saga... yeah it fails in key ways.
I did not mind the internal monologuing either. Only on the Internet did I discover that this was a huge problem, lol!
I love Dune, but I hate sand.
Its coarse and gets in everything
I love sand, but I hate the desert. Surely I would build my home in Caladan, I need to live near water.
Can I interest you in some high ground?
Ok anikin.
Sand worms, you hate 'em. I hate 'em too!
I tried watching the 1984 Dune (I did make it to the end) and what bugged me most was that the whole movie just felt like a series of vignettes.
The weirding module gave us the best unit in the dune video games: Sonic tanks
reporting
Take this down
tbf
Fremen special units were more fun to use.
dang sonic tanks fekked everything in line of sight up
Androrac invented by Nazi Germany
And in Command and Conquer. Seriously, the tanks are a GDI unit in Tiberian Sun.
Funny, I always miss the missing pieces when they make a movie. Unless those pieces are in direct conflict with the book I just fill in the missing pieces in the movie with the book. The book Dune is totally in need of a GOT type start, but not finish with a three or four year run - start to finish - to cover the book Dune only. Otherwise you will never get in all the nuances. IE Ix, the mentats or the spacing guild to name a few. I read Dune nine times in my twenties and still to this day pick up more things that I have missed on a reread. Keep up your dissection work on the Dune series. Always a pleasure to read or hear different points of view.
I got addicted to cinnamon granola bars.
The movie be like: PACING. What is pacing. Is it narration?
People: No it means...
Movie: Randomly narrates something off topic or obvious.
Gotta admit, I've read the Dune book several times, the book series at least twice, and watched the movie dozens of times and never picked up on the horror of a people's implanted beliefs going psycho. I think the movie muddied it up for me since I was first exposed to Dune through it when I was a child. Thanks, Quinn. This analysis has completely shifted my view of the series.
I've always liked the Lynch version especially the voice over but to expect a movie to cover even the majority or themes from a book is unrealistic.
how about covering non of themes.
@@kyblackman Or betraying all the most important ones.
i like the voice overs cause it makes it feel slighty dreamlike and mystical. the guy who they got to play leto was exactly how i imagined him when reading the book
I would very much like to see a similar comparison with the original book vs. that tv mini series from the 2000s. Personally I think it turned out better than David Lynch's film probably because the newer sfx don't look as dated yet and the fact that between the two parts dune and children of dune it's about 8 hours (I think they're 4 hours a piece?) So that does give it a lot more time to break down the nuances and set the stage. All in all I think the miniseries is the best dune media we've got so far, but here's hoping dune 2020 will be much much better.
You really do not remeber the miniserie looks, right? It looks bad. Very bad.
The SFX were lackluster, but the miniseries had a stage play look, which made it seem like "Shakespeare in Space". I, for one, loved the style.
I really liked the actor cast as the Baron in the SyFy series, but the rest of the writing/acting and especially the silly costumes put me off it so badly that I never finished the first part of it.
@@infinition
A very romantic way to say it looked cheap... That said some theatrical production have costumes putting movies to shame...
Just read the book, watched the movie the next day (today) and the first thought that I had was that the adaptation NEEDS to be a duology, the book has a rich enough setup and a couple of story climaxes with a pretty clear cutoff point (the 2 year time skip) after the first climax, which would make for a good ending for the first film.
It's also obvious in the Lynch film that after that point the movie falls apart in a break-neck pace to reach the final climax, with all the important story points falling off along this desperate race to finish the story, turning it into a giant mess, not even mentioning the questionable creative decisions regarding the portrayal and motivations of the Guild, the Sisters and their designed prophecies and the Harkonens.
So I was really glad to hear from you that Dennis actually understands this and is planning a 2 part movie, never doubted him as a capable director and storyteller but this fact reassures me that the story will be portrayed with all the attention and care for the details it deserves.
I think it would work better as a trilogy:
Dune
Muad'Dib
The Prophet
That's how the book's structured. And whilst Muad'Dib is a little shorter than the other two, it's still long enough for a complete movie. And there's enough content in there for a movie, with Paul becoming more of a Freman and learning their ways, and Liet-Kynes's death scene, and Paul training the Fremen, and Paul's romance with Chani, and also some Harkonnen plotting with Hawat's help.
But a duology could work. They could conjoin Muad'Dib to Dune and it would flow, and then have The Prophet as the second movie.
Saw this movie in the theater (remember those?????) in '84 with my son who was 13 at the time...we both LOVED it!
I had not read the book but was moved to do so. Was surprised a very important piece of plot information was left out of the movie. I won't say what here, I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read the book. As some have said here it's great, it's silly, it's magnificently campy (think Sting's performance) but we all love it anyway. I think I have a DVD, now I need to find it and watch this again! ;-)
"I like this movie, but here's 10 minutes of why it's bad." It's visually really interesting, but it's a bad movie.
If you can talk about 10 minutes about why something sucks, it probably sucks