What Happened When I Put These Parts In An Ultrasonic Cleaner - Bike Maintenance
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2023
- *FOLLOW-UP VIDEO*:
• Ultrasonic Cleaners - ...
Even wondered what would happen if you put alloy and plastic parts in an ultrasonic cleaner?
In this video, I take a selection of bike parts and put them through an ultrasonic cleaner, just to see if they get damaged. This included:
A Shimano chain
A Shimano 105 7000 Rear Derailleur
A Shimano 105 7000 Front Derailleur
A Shimano 105 7000 Cassette
CNC Machined Jockey Wheels with Sealed Bearings
A Shimano BB-R60 Bottom Bracket
Some Wheel Bearings
The idea was to see if these more delicate parts would get as good a clean as components like a chain. Would they come out sparkly and new, or would they melt?
Ultrasonic Cleaner:
Amazon - £90
amzn.to/45I8pNE
Cleaning Solution:
Viro-sol Citrus Based Cleaner - £14 for 5 litres
amzn.to/45Da07B
About Ribble Valley Cyclist:
I am a regular road cyclist based in the Ribble Valley, in the North West of England. I have been a cyclist my whole life, and try to get out every day. The purpose of my TH-cam channel is to share the knowledge I’ve built up in my 40 years as a cyclist.
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/ ribblevalley_cyclist
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#ultrasonic #chain #bikerepair #bikemaintenance #roadbike #workshop #shimano105 #shimanoUltegra #Ultegra #shimanoroad #bikecare #wintercycling #review #cycling #cyclinglife #shimano #ribblevalleycyclist #roadcycling #bikeclean - กีฬา
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The reason you're losing anodising (and getting furring on the alloy parts you dunked) is 100% down to the cleaner. If you check the MSDS for viro-sol, it's got small amounts (< 1%) of sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) in it, which turns fats and grease into soap, but also eats aluminium. A different degreaser without sodium hydroxide will be fine with it, long and short of it is to read the MSDS
You're not supposed to run bearings through the ultrasonic, if you believe everything you read online. I've never had any problems with doing so, but I'm not gonna risk my lathe's headstock bearings just in case. The ultrasonic won't bring back chipped or worn bearings from the dead, but it will clear out any grime and crap very effectively.
And FWIW, you *can* regrease "sealed" bearings, although if you want to clean them first you're gonna have to trash the seals, so...
Yes, dipping anodized parts that do not pass quality control (anodizing not acceptable) is standard procedure prior re-anodizing.
All pretty commun.
Any recommendation for a non alkaline degreaser ??
@@stephenlord599 None specifically. Go to an industrial supplier and ask for something that's aluminium-safe. Bear in mind that an aluminium-safe degreaser might not be safe for steel. Specific tools for specific jobs. the stuff we use is Solvane 35, but it's probably only available in France and in largeish quantities. It's also horrible stuff, and you won't want to be putting it in an ultrasonic tank.
@@stephenlord599 Yes, a solvent based one. Cellulose thinner
@@stephenlord599Hydrocarbons like gas, diesel or kerosene should be fine, but they are flammable and toxic and can attack plastics.
When I was a bicycle messenger and did about 1000 to 1500km a month, I put my drivetrain through an ultrasonic bath with chain cleaner fluid every single weekend.
One of the parts was also a 105 cassette. I didn’t have the results you got. None of my parts had the anodizing stripped. As others have mentioned, it’s most likely down to the cleaning fluid you used.
The only problem I had was when I put too much grease on parts after cleaning.
Cleaning the drivetrain in a weekly ultrasonic bath was worth it. I saved so much time and money by not having my chain, and in extension my drivetrain, wear down prematurely and having to spend money replacing it.
Also got to learn that quicklinks are reusable almost indefinitely (replace it with your chain though). Had a chain rip once, but it wasn’t the chainlink.
The only thing ripping regularly was shifting cables, but you can buy those in bulk for very cheap.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, TheCharel. Agreed, some quick links can be reused over and over. KMC do ones that are designed to be re-used.
which product/mix gave you satisfied results?
Thanks for the video. A few of my own experiences, owning a very similar machine:
20 minutes seems pretty overkill. I get excellent results on filthy, waxed chains and cassettes with No Nonsense degreaser in 5 minutes (with a half-time agitate). I do tend to run it warmer (60C), preferring less time in the bath to an extended "buzz".
Others have mentioned, but 100% look into ziplock bags. I chuck a chain in one with a relatively small amount of degreaser (enough to immerse it in the bag) and then stick the bag in the cleaner, which only contains warm water, making sure to keep the opening above the surface. Cleaning is just as good, you use a fraction of the cleaning solution and, best of all, you never have to clean the machine! Just chuck the bag away when it goes manky. I use bacofoil ones from Ocado - Ive tried cheap Aldi ones, but they fail prematurely. The slightly posher ones have yet to leak even with neat degreaser.
A really important part of the process is the rinse stage. Everything needs to be properly rinsed of any cleaning products and then dried thoroughly (an air line is ideal here) to avoid corrosion or early life failures.
Personally, I chuck anything in mine, but adjust the cleaning solution to suit - degreaser for chains, down to soapy water for more delicate stuff. Basically, whatever I'd nornally use in the sink, but in a fraction of the time. Ive not noticed significant change in anodised parts, but this might be down to the shorter cycle times perhaps.
Mostly, to be fair, its chains and cassettes that get cleaned for me and I wouldnt be without the cleaner now.
Hi TheDaern,
Thanks for your detailed feedback and suggestions.
I've been sent a new machine through the post, a 10 litre jobbo with rotary pots and a higher output. I'll be using this machine on a video where I test out different techniques and cleaning products. I've seen the bag idea mentioned before, so will give that a go in that video.
Thanks for watching,
Jon.
@@ribblevalleycyclist I have to admit that while my modest 3 litre tank is ok for most stuff, it won't take a 52 cassette without some serious metal folding and I've definitely pondered getting a slightly bigger one with a bit more adjustability, so I'll be intrigued to see your results.
I've also seen other people using jam jars rather than ziplock bags, which I've been (entirely without any evidence to back it up!) a bit sceptical of due to the thicker walls - perhaps an opportunity for a bit of scientific testing here? You would need to apply for a new British Standard for "Filthy Bike Drivetrain" though 🙂
Hope to get this video done soon..... Life is doing a fantastic job of getting in the way, though! Petrol and a jam jar works well, but you do still end up with a bit of residue left in the chain. Think the zip bag will be worth a try.
@@TheDaern
If anything the glass jars should work better, because sound - and therefore ultrasound too - travels very well through glass due to its hardness, but gets dampened a little by the rather soft plastic.
But i doubt it will make much of a difference, since most ultrasonic cleaners are quite powerful.
I have used an ultrasonic parts cleaner for 10 years now and I never had any such issue. I use a little bit of mild detergent with hot water and it has been trouble free for me. The problem is not the part cleaner but the chemicals you use.
Interesting, you should say that. I've just done another video on this exact subject. You may find my tests interesting:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
@@ribblevalleycyclist I worked on ultrasonic cleaning many years ago as an engineer refurbishing mechanical items. We always used a specialist cleaner made for ultrasonic cleaners and compatible with the various materials. (Like very mild dish detergent) Never had a problem with any of the 100k's parts we processed.
For heavy thick grease we used a CO2 blast unit!
well done sir !
it is an absolute pleasure to listen to you and see your results.
Thanks a lot !!
Thank you, Bert. Glad you enjoyed it 👍
I think the basket helped to prevent the damage on anodized components. I use a similar sized machine for chains, chain rings and casettes. And at first i used some fancy cleaner solution and the paint got damaged because it scrubed on the floor of the machine. Now i use it with the heater and soapy water. Except for the noise it is a great tool.
I have used ultrasonic cleaners both professionally and private for over a decade. You can use any non-flameable solutions in an ultrasonic cleaner. Everything from dish soap to heavy duty degreasers. I even use diluted acid to remove rust and scale from 316 stainless steel. I’ve also used an oxide remover solution from a brand called Branson to remove corrosion from pcb.
Most solutions will have to be diluted, so please follow the instructions. Make sure to use proper protection when handling solutions like undiluted heavy degreaser and acid.
Some of the solutions will affect metals in different ways. There are solutions that will start to stain metals like Brass, while other solutions will start to etch Aluminum. The acid solutions I use will attack active metals like Aluminum and Magnesium.
Some great advice here. Thanks for your comments and adding value. Got another video coming soon on this subject, so watch this space. Will be trying different cleaning solutions, and will be trying out an all new machine.
Thanks again.
Jon
Do we need ultrasonic cleaners with degauss function or a standard one is ok, like the one he used?
Hi Lucian, All the DeGas function is doing is removing the air from the fluid. Running it beforehand for roughly 15 minutes will have the same effect.
I use gasoline in mine, but I put my parts and the gasoline in a sealed glass jar and float it in the water.
I have this tank in a 15L.
I fill it with simple Green (Green) + 3/4 cup of acetone.
It does wonders on old tractor carbs & small engine parts.
I saw this same recipe used on brass clockworks here on TH-cam also, made the brass really clean!
Dont run this beast on an ext cord, these big units heaters/burners use a lot of power & if its current gets restricted the plugs melt and/or the burner or pc board will burn/fail. Keep an eye on it's power cord near the switch/fuse area. Seen several pics of tanks plugs melting there bad on Amazon, mainly big 30L digital I think??
I wonder if any ran it full blast on long ext cord??
Ever run a big 110 elect burner on a gas generator, sure pulls one down.
I read purple SG is good stuff too but more costly. Citric acid cleans pretty good, Amazing job on brown stains & calcium in our coffee pots/maker. Much better than vinigar.
Probably try it in my tank because red TSP (phosphates) is goin bye bye damnit. Grr!
Thats great stuff but price really jumped cause users stocking up. When cheap gets the job done just as well & without damage I stick with it.
Nice cleaner! You got the right one, sure a big'n
If the adodising came off its because it's fake. Anodising is a platted coating like chrome. It's actually in the metal.
Good point.
There's more to this. The anodising will not come off, but the coloring might, as it sits in the pockets / porosity of the anodised layer.
I use one at work for cleaning up small machine parts at work and just use plain tap water and it unfortunately removes the anodising off them also any other metals seem to be fine. The vibration along will heat the water also.
The anodised parts are not stripped. The ink within the anodising is but the forced corrosion is still there. It’s not nice to look at but will operate just fine as a part.
Thank you for the well brought video. I have one at home, and I use it for the chains at 60 Celsius for 30 min in 75p water on 25p muck-off degrease. After cleaning, I wipe it off with a paper towel and put it in a plastic zip-lock bag. Put some chain-lube on it and put it in the machine again for 30 min at 40 degrees. (Still want to try waxing a chain, but the weather and roads are horrendous here in Netherlands in autumn, winter and spring and never trusted waxing a chain). On my daily commute I happily have a Rohloff and gates belt for the last 10 years (and 55K km).
Great advice,
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
I’ve been using one of these for some 10 years now for maintenance of my diving gear. On top of degreasing, our kit has to be cleared of hardened lime deposits. Things I have learned the hard way :
- leaving plastic parts in 50+ degrees liquid for extended periods of time (heater doesn’t stop when cleaning cycle is finished) is a surefire way to significant warping of some parts
- warm vinegar in an ultrasonic cleaner is great for disolving limestone AND chrome plating almost equally fast
Warm vinegar, great tip. Thanks 👍
What is commonly called anodizing nowadays is just making the aluminium porous and cooking in some commercial dye. If you use a high energy process and a strong degreaser with temperature it will cook off the dye. Cavitation produced by the ultrasound is a very powerful process. As long as the liquid you use does not promote a galvanic reaction the structural integrity should not be compromised. It's only cometics.
All good points, Miguel,
You should watch my latest on this subject, you may find it interesting:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching,
Jon
You have highlighted some interesting points there. I have been considering purchasing a sonic cleaner as I am a bit old school using a toothbrush and a cheap baking tin from Lidl filled with white spirit. It does the job but things tend to get a bit messy doing it this way. I would like to point out though that over the years I have fitted some lovely anodised Hope parts, hubs, quick release skewers, seat clamps etc and no matter how well I clean them ( with soapy water) during the winter months, by the time spring arrives they look an absolute mess from the corrosive nature of the salt on the roads. I guess it's all down to experience and learning form others. I won't put Hope skewers on any winter bike now, they just don't last.
Hi MrDazP1,
I’m glad you found it interesting.
I must admit, I’m a sucker for a Hope part. Have you seen their road brake callipers? WOW!! I use their rotors on my summer road bike. I used to live in the next village from them, and love the idea of local people making amazing parts. It’s a shame what you say about the longevity of the finish though.
As far as ultrasonic cleaners is concerned, I’ll only ever put bare metal parts in one.
There is a great video from Oz Cycles that you should check out., link below. I like the idea, but it’d be a bit of a pfaff to make. Also, another great cleaning agent is diesel, down to its lubricants
th-cam.com/video/9x8JTUa_hZU/w-d-xo.html
@@ribblevalleycyclist Don't get me wrong, I love a blinged up bike with Hope parts, the anodized parts just get a hammering on my winter bike.
I'm running some Hope 20 five wheels on Pro 4's and they have been a pretty good all round wheelset and you can replace the parts easily which is important if you want to have the bike ready for the next ride.
Thanks for the link I will take a look at it.
I also watch Bikespeeds who use a sonic cleaner on most of their videos which got me thinking more about getting one.
Having said that, I have had the chain and cassette in the thinners again today cleaning the road grime off . The work bench just became a mucky mess😢.
The joys of bike maintenance....
Sometimes the old ways are the best ways. Thinners, a sweet tin, and a good shake 😂
Ever noticed the shimano dark grey anodizing on 105 hubs etc? Amazingly thick and glossy, I'd love to see salt durability
The 105 printing on the RD is gone after the bath.
Well spotted, never noticed that!
thanks for going through the process.....guess i never had such good results becuase i didnt use strong degreaser in my ultrasonic cleaner...
Sometimes, Global, it's a good idea to do a quick soak for a few minutes in neat degreaser before then moving to the ultrasonic cleaner. Also, heat helps. Hope you get some better results.
I simply put my chain in a clip lock bag (an Ikea one with two clips ) spray a bit of the muc off drivetrain degreaser in the bag - seal it and run it through a cycle or two with just water in the ultrasonic cleaner. pull the chain out of the bag and drop it into a jar with some dishwashing detergent and water and give it a good shake then rinse it off
- chain cleans up quite good and very little mess to clean up
Hi Roy,
Thanks for your thoughts. I've seen this done before in another video, but I think they used a plastic tub, rather than a bag. I've always fancied giving this a try. I've been sent a 10 litre machine to review, and I'll be using that to test what cleaning fluid is best. I may try to squeeze this method into that video.
Thanks for watching,
Jon
We use these in work all the time with a solvent called citrasol. We use it to clean bitumen from sample gear so it will pretty much clean anything.
You don’t need to heat anything as just by using the bath the solvent will heat up.
I’ve cleaned all sorts of parts and never had any issues with anodising being removed.
The only down side with cleaning something like a chain is that the process removes all the lube from inside the chain as well as cleaning the outside, and unless you wax dip your chains it’s difficult to get that line back in.
Good advice, Chris. Some people use a separate machine filled with oil to re-oil chains...... Not sure about that, though!!!
@@ribblevalleycyclist If you want to re-grease a chain that's been totally cleaned, and make sure the grease gets to the inside and stays there, dissolve some grease in petrol, about 1 part in 10, drop the chain in the mixture and agitate it for a bit, then pull it out and let the petrol flash off. Wear gloves, don't smoke, etc etc.
I have a smaller ultrasonic cleaner all worked perfectly but I only run for 5 to 10 minutes but definitely with the heater on first to increase temp then switch off. The only issue I had was rear mech, I had it siezed on the bike as it took all the grease out the top part. So in future I will remove spring tensioner and clean together loose then assemble with grease. My ultrasonic cleaner has multiple frequencies for use with jewellery, I used this so it wasn't so harsh. I had no issues with plaiting or paint, very happy but remember to re lubricate everything.
Great advice Boseybear,
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
When I was watching the reveal of the cleaned parts I was like "that looks rather dull still, hardly immaculate" ... then I realised the video was playing at 360p.
In HD and yes, I see it, absolutely will be picking one up.
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. It was also shot in 4k, so you can see how clean it gets stuff. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
There is a different product to be used for aluminium parts in your ultrasonic cleaner. When using the correct type of solvent it won't lose it's 'shine'.
You have to use a different chemical depending on what material you're working with. If you're mixing materials you might want to consider just using Dawn and have the warmer on
Interesting, you should say that. I've just done another video on this exact subject. You may find my tests interesting:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
@@ribblevalleycyclistI was going to say the same thing. Dawn and isopropyl alcohol are my main tools for cleaning and degreasing bike parts without damaging anything.
I'm using a Finsonic cleaner which has a capacity of around 20 litres.
I just use regular domestic all purpose cleaner.
Many of the comments here are ridiculous. The wrong detergents or too high temps can ruin stuff but the ultrasonic cleaner will not. To prove that, run water onlycand ultrasonic with the anodized components. I've used Dawn dish soap and warm water to clean sunglasses, guns, jewelry, bike parts and I've never seen a single damaged component. Try your test with Dawn.
Hi,
Great advice,
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
Ha! Good news fror those of us just wanting to clean our skate bearings with an ultrasonic machine. Thank you.
We use sodium hydroxide (one ingredient it the cleaner you tested) to remove anodizing from machine parts. It also eats aluminum. Its one of the active ingredients in oven cleaner.
Hi,
Thanks for the info.
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
I only this afternoon did my very expensive oil slick chain and cassette with a car degreaser at a pretty high concentration. I don't have pictures of the before. Cassette seems okay. Chain has wearing of the oilslick colour but only on the outer links so could have been there before.
Have you checked out the latest ultrasonic video I've done, some great experiments!
US Cleaner user here.
I'm yet to start using dedicated cleaning solutions. My weapon of choice is cheap, BIO washing powder, washing up liquid and kitchen degreaser (currently fluoro-yellow Elbow Grease) plus boiling water.
Chains, perhaps cassettes, but noting else came to my mind to put into the cleaner.
My experience with chains and my cleaning concoctions gives super clean state after 2 solution baths, one clean water bath and series of jar of IPA vigorous shaking.
Waxed chain like that and managed to squeeze 743km without re-waxing or re-cold-dripping.
My US Cleaner is only 40W of cleaning power. Might need to invest in bigger one to reduce number of baths and finally being able to fit cassette into cleaning basket.
All in all, I love my US cleaner :)
Cheers!
I.
Interesting, you should say that. I've just done another video on this exact subject. You may find my tests interesting:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Not a road cyclist here, so I usually don't clean bearings/bushings/chains, just cassettes, stripped down flat pedals etc...
using a little 4L Emag at 60C usually just with (quality) dish soap for about 15min. other than some dulling and discolouration no issues so far! everything still working fine and saved so much elbow grease :D
Interesting, you should say that. I've just done another video on this exact subject. You may find my tests interesting:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
I've just completed cleaning 3 carburetors off my outboard engine, they stopped working properly due to stale fuel. The needle and jets were blocked. I stripped them down and placed them one at a time in a 2L Vevor Ultrasonic cleaner. I used tap water and approximately two tablespoons of dishwashing detergent. Set the temp to 60 Deg and the timer to 20mins. All of them came out squeaky clean and unscathed. I used an air hose to blow out the water. The motor running like new again
Nice. Good to hear your process. Thanks for sharing.
I have same machine you have and cleaned lot of bike parts and others and never a single problem.
Can you put a link up for the compressor you use please? So many and capacities on the market 🤷🏻♂️
Tia and great videos
Hi @GoActive. I’m testing out the CREWORKS at the moment, they’re better than most I’ve tried, here is a link to their 3 litre machine, which is the size in this video. Let me know how you get on. Thanks, Jon
amzn.to/47RZNGe
I usually use really hot water out the tap, and some degreaser, and use the heat setting on my parts cleaner. I'm just using a cheap parts cleaner for Harbor Freight. I haven't noticed the issue of anodizing coming off, but then again maybe I haven't run as long as a cycle on it. Sometimes after running the parts through a few 8 minute cycles in solution, I'll run it through one more time with hot water only. That will usually flush out and lingering degreaser that may still be in the parts.
Some really good tips, Teddgram.
I've done an updated video on this subject that you may be interested in:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
I'll bet that the "strip anodizing" is actually stripping the color pigment molecules out of the oxidized aluminum matrix
Yes, also possible.
i give parts a quick soapy bubble scrub, and throw em in the dishwasher.....without telling my wife. works for me.
I've always fancied doing that 🤣
7:35 I do enjoy the term “CNC machined” I hear it often and I any of the components that required machining during their manufacture were done manually. Still a good video though. Glad I found your channel.
I use an old jar and put enough Muc-Off in there to cover whatever part it is I want cleaned and then just jiggle about by hand for a few minutes. I reckon it does 90% of what an ultrasonic cleaner does.
The old-fashioned jar and a shake is still the quickest and easiest. Ain't gonna disagree with that 👍
Great testing, although the fluid in the machine first needs 10 minutes of degassing before adding the components. Without degassing there is hardly any cleaning happening. So, in this case the runs show a nett result of approximately 10 minutes.
Hi Jan, Agreed. Degassing is something I learned about after this video. I’ve been sent a larger machine from a different manufacturer that I’ll be testing soon I’ll be doing a video on it, and I’ll be discussing both degassing and other points to consider. Thanks for your thoughts 👍
Jon
I wonder what causes anodising to suffer? Is the degreaser acidic, or is it the porous surface of the anodising suffering from the cavitation from the ultrasonics?
I use No Nonsense heavy duty degreaser. It's water soluble and not as vicious as the stuff you use. Available in DIY stores.
Hi Carl, I've heard a few people mention No Nonsense, so I've ordered some from Tool Station. I'll be getting my hands on a new machine, and will be trying a few degreasers, and also petrol! Watch this space!
On the manufacturer's data sheet it lists how much cleaning agent is meant to be used with a certain amount of water.
Good advice, I'll look it up. Thanks.
I lost the anodising on the spider of my Ultegra cassette after a 60degree with diluted degreaser. I now do it at 45degree and the anodising has survived.
What would be interesting is a video on which frequency is best to use? I’ve got two on mine and I’ve no idea which is better so I do 5min on each.
Hi Confuzed Cactus,
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
I have been using my ultrasonic cleaner for over 7 years with all of my cycling parts from vintage Campagnolo Super Record parts to modern Dura Ace 9100 series and everything in between without any issues. I tend to do 3 cycles of 5 minutes (I have a small 2L tank and the manufacturer recommends short cycles).
- I use Simple Green Extreme Aircraft and Precision Cleaner (it's safe for aluminum, plastic, paint, carbon fibre, etc)
- follow the appropriate dilution recommended by Simple Green
- it is very important to make sure your degreaser is safe for aluminum and other material
- heated up to 50C - 60C
As I said, I have never had a single issue with the use of any material I have used in my ultrasonic cleaner.
The Simple Green Extreme Aircraft and Precision Cleaner sounds interesting, I'll look it up.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice.
i had that problem with virosol stripping anodising. I switched to screwfix no nonsense degreaser and zero problems. I only zap parts for 3 to 4 minutes.
Hi doctorbunhead,
Funny you should say that. I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. You will find the content interesting. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
Hello there.
Although water based solvent cleaners can be used to remove small amount of grease, their oil solvent characteristics aren't as good as they claim to be (when compared to a proper degreaser such as cellulose thinner). The use of a proper, more efficient degreaser will dictate the overall higher cleaning efficiency. The purpose of the solvents is to dissolve the grease into the solvent, if it is water based, that dictates that its solvent capacity is restrained to its additives, and it will not have 100% molecular affinity with the grease you are trying to remove and thus the parts will have to endure increased time in the ultrasonic bath. Saturation point will be quite short.
The Viro-Sol you use is based on an basic pH cleaning process (pH of 12-14), the TDS states it should not be used with aluminum, where it can form sodium aluminate. You dissolve it into water thus lowering its overall pH and this effect, but you will not eliminate it. I really don’t understand why people use water-based solvent to perform a “proper” degreasing work. This has always baffled me!
I have the same ultrasonic cleaner, however I use water as the ultrasonic medium, but use a glass hardware where I put my parts along with cellulose thinner inside then I put the glass content into the water medium. I usually anticipate the workload buy performing a quick cleaning of the parts (to remove the big chunks of grease and dirt that cover the parts) by using a paint brush or and old toothbrush and a small amount of the abovementioned solvent. I only use the ultrasonic bath after the surfaces are totally exposed (homogeneous exposure) and thus prepared for the ultrasonic cleaning process. By doing this you will ensure two things, the creation of a homogenous surface exposed to ultrasound, and with this, I lower the exposure time to the ultrasound. This is mostly important with aluminium (softer) parts, as they will get exfoliated overtime due to the cavitation process on the exposed surfaces (if you put it in all clogged up, there will be parts that will be exposed and others that are all covered with grease and dirt, the exposed parts will get exfoliated quicker than others overtime. In the long run you will not see problems with cassettes as they will fail way before this cavitation issue may be of real concern, but on bearing hubs I would not use ultrasounds! On bearing yes, but only after the procedure I mentioned was performed (I also have acetone but I only use it in some special parts.) Chains on the other hand as they are steel based and thus harder, they will not suffer as much as aluminium but as the solvent becomes saturated with debris and grease its efficiency to clean the chain linkage system will be impaired. I strongly recommend the two step cleaning method, clean by hand and then ultrasound (for chainwax application it is a must imo).
This is my thought on your process/video, hope it will help!
To sum up, I used a solvent based product, in my case (cellulose thinner) and divide the work into two parts, manual cleaning to expose all the parts, and only then I use the ultrasounds.
Cheers, and best regards from Portugal
The optimum temperature for ultrasonic cleaning is 75% of the boiling point of the liquid in use. In this case, a predominantly water based solution, so 75'C.
Interesting, thanks for sharing 👍
Essentially, the cleaning action is caused by the generation and subsequent collapsing of thousands of tiny bubbles. At the point at which the ultrasonic energy hits the surface of the object you're cleaning it compresses and then releases the liquid with a surprising amount of energy. The pressure drop causes the liquid (at the point where each bubble forms) to momentarily boil. An instant later, positive pressure is delivered by the next sound wave, which causes the boiled water bubble to violently collapse. It's the impact from the collapsing that mechanically strips dirt and contaminants from the surface. The 75% of boiling point thing gets you the right balance between the number of tiny bubbles and the energy with which they collapse.@@ribblevalleycyclist
Mine did ruin the anodising on a chainring once, not sure if it was using too much cleaner.
I did that. Put an Ultegra chainring in, and it came out with a dull matt finish.
I just use a bit of dreft to degrease. ( it wont strip anodising)
To strip blueing of metal… citric acid concentrate.
I use a bit of heat either way! Plastics can handle 35c
The best results i got with warm destiled water and Fairy!Only thing is that all the grease will remain in the water after cleaning.With the amonia based cleaning solutions the grease is decomposed but they are not so effective and they are also expensive AF.
Hi, Gellert,
Interesting you mention Fairy.
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried exactly that. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
@ribblevalleycyclist also to speed up the process i heat up the water in a cheap electric kettle ,under 1 min i can start the whole process vs half an hour .I did not had the balls to try any flammable liquids in the cleaner.Interesting comparisons in the other video!
A higher frequency ultrasonic cleaner has less violent cavitation and 80khz instead of 40khz would probably be ok.
I have the same ultrasonic cleaner as you and I have successfully degrease components by placing them in a glass jar filled with solvent (some people swear by petrol) the heater water indirectly heats the solvent and the ultrasonic waves still work through the glass jar. For delicate components, you might want to look for a PH neutral cleaner to add to the water.
Absolutely will strip the anodising from alloy parts, not that they are ruined… just don’t look the same. Also strips the TiN gold coating from KMC chain (partially at least). This was using heater and degreaser.
Agreed, James. I find I use it less and less nowadays. It's only when I get something really bad in that I use it.
You could follow up with light oil and relubricate the part. You could try alcohol, ammonia, bleach, soap, break cleaner (chloride) solvents/water.
Hi Myko,
I’ve made a follow up video to this, not with relubricate though. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
I have found the PineSol doesn’t take off delicate anodizing, even at full strength with heat. You don’t actually need full strength though. It’s also great for aluminum carburetors. Dawn dishwashing liquid also works well.
I've been using ultrasonic cleaners for some time and it's a learning curve.
Depending on what you're cleaning, you'll need to make adjustments.
You can't just throw in everything for a longbtime and expect it all to be "like new".
20 to 30 minutes is a long time and if you're using chemical cleaners AND running it at around 40kHz, as you've seen you're going to damage some finishes..
Using "risers" to protect parts of what you're cleaning is a good move.
If your cleaning metal objects, chemicals are advantageous, however, using dish soap is also a good choice for coated finishes too.
As I and others have said, you shouldn't just throw everything fir 20 or 30 minutes. You should do it in shorter stages, regularly checking the progress.
You may find this information on frequencies useful:
26kHz: The lowest frequency, is ideal for cleaning heavy contamination on robust parts such as engine valves or steel components covered in grease or carbon.
38kHz: This frequency provides gentler cleaning action and is suitable for many common tasks such as glass and machined part cleaning.
78kHz: This is the go-to frequency to use to clean delicate parts that require a lighter touch. Hard disk drives, LCDs, and aluminum parts with fragile surface finishes can all benefit from using this frequency for effective cleansing.
130-200kHz: These are higher frequencies used to clean the most delicate components with soft surfaces. This frequency range ensures efficient yet gentle cleaning for components like soft metals, coated lenses.
430kHz-2.0MHz: These are the highest frequencies used to clean the most delicate components. This frequency range ensures complete yet gentle cleaning for semiconductors, flat panel glass, electronic parts or delicate medical instruments.
Hi Ben,
Thank you for sharing all of this detailed information. And, yes, the frequency information is useful.
Thanks,
Jon
Strangly, I use cheap small size Ultrasonic Cleaner, and andizing did not change at all.
Interesting. Does it clean well?
I’m using the same ultrasonic cleaner but 10ltr, liquid: ultrasonic K3. Proportion 1:10, 5:10 it depends of dirt, temp 40celsius, time 15-30mins every 5-7 mins I’m shaking a bin a little bit to move the parts inside. Effects - incredible
Hi Bartek,
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new 10ltr machine. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
I have exactly that cleaner and use it to clean vinyl records. I put water, a little rubbing alcohol and a surfactant. I run six records through it at a time for 10 minutes. 90% come out cleaner than brand new as new ones are contaminated by factory pollution like dust and stuff and a brush won’t get that off. The sound difference before vs after is astonishing. Now, you gotta admit, these are sensitive items in comparison to bicycle parts.
I’ve never had any damage from it. But I do know there’s been research done and that there is eventually damage. The unit you’re using is a 40khz unit and the research has basically established that higher kHz units create less damage. I suppose if used sensibly, with the necessary prep work like degreasing and such, they will work just fine without creating visible damage.
I'd never seen this done before, until recently. The system I saw had the vinyl in the tank vertically. I take it there is some kind of axle rotating the vinyl?
@@ribblevalleycyclist yes, a small gear drive with a spindle to fit 6 records and spacers inbetween.
I use hot water and dish soap (in ultra sonic cleaner), and it works fine for cleaning gunparts 👍🇩🇰
Interesting you should say that, Thomas
I did exactly that in this video, but it didn't work. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on it.
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
I made the mistake of using a rather strong base de-greaser the first time I used my ultrasonic, with heating and for a rather long time... Well it did one heck of a number on my anodizing. Also stripped everything so clean they flash rusted pretty quick. I'd stick with a non base heavy or one that doesn't have sodium hydroxide de-greaser and use it VERY sparingly to clean anything with anodizing or that is aluminum for a short period 15min at most. Otherwise the ultrasonic cleaner is incredibly powerful and does a remarkable job of cleaning parts you just have to be careful with it and the cleaning agents you use as additives. Preferably use something with a corrosion inhibitor included and then dip your parts in methalated spirits to dry/drive the moisture out immediately after pulling them from the ultrasonic bath.
Hi,
Great advice,
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
About the anodezing ?? Could is be the dirt particles in the water that rubs off the anodezing?? and not the cleaning solution 🤔🤔
Could the ultrasonic cleaner clean ceramic bearings and bearings? Could the balls inside the bearings be damaged?
Looking into getting one off these for my chain and cassette, will the small one be big enough for that mate? Cheers
Hi Dave,
3 litre Vs 6 Litre - 3 litre is okay if you’re cleaning a smaller cassette, say 30 teeth or less. Anything bigger, and it’ll stick out of the water. If you can stretch to it, go for a 6 litre.
Also, the ones with the buttons start to go wrong after a while, you’re better off with the rotor knob style. Creworks is a good quality unit, that I trust.
This is my latest ultrasonic video, worth a watch:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
CREWORKS - Mechanical Dials:
3 Litre Version - amzn.to/44RpG6f
6 Litre Version - amzn.to/45Nx2Jm
10 Litre Version - amzn.to/3sWoIZq
Digital Version:
3 Litre Version - amzn.to/45I8pNE
Brilliant mate thank you for that might treat myself to the big one then, I’m obsessed with cleaning them and looking getting one of these mate, will watch video tonight 😊
you can just use cheap liquid hand soap (if it works well to remove grease off your hands it'll work well in your ultrasonic, for anodised components never use lavender based cleaners on ammonia-ted cleaners (always be careful with any cleaners that have ammonia) always be careful no opals, emeralds, pearls etc ie flawed stones and a lot of ultra hard brittle things like tungsten carbide watch cases as these can also easily shatter, almost anything on my mountain bike goes through to be cleaned.
Thanks, konaguzzi1, those are great tips.
To sum it up: Cleaning parts in a ultrasonic cleaner is a try-and-error thing and requires quite a lot of experience. If I had really valuable parts I wanted to reuse afterwards, I simply would not run the risk, but would clean them in the traditional way instead.
Side note: My girlfriend once ruined a pair of glasses in her ultrasonic cleaner (designed for the purpose!): Either she ran it too long, or the intensity was too high - as a result, she could tear the antiglare-coating off the glasses. So.... with my glasses, I don't run the risk either.
Great advice, Gerald
I’ve made a follow up video to this, and tried a few different methods/cleaners in a new machine. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
I have just bought an ultrasonic cleaner and would like to throw my mtb cassette in it.
The first cog is made from aluminum and the whole thing is bolted together so you cant take it apart, which makes it impossible to clean manually.
I think i will just start with dish soap and work my way up from there.
I have some other parts with light to medium rust on them, if you have any suggestions on what to use or not to use they would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
I wouldn't put in the ultrasonic cleaning machine the sealed bearings. The vibration will make the cleaning fluid seep inside and there won't be any way to regrease the bearing. That's why even with cars that were flooded or so, being submerged in water for an extended time, all wheel bearings are compromised. Unsealed bearings, yes, they can be regreased afterward, however, for the ones with ceramic balls, the ultrasonic may damage them.
Have you, or could you, measure the actual Wattage of your ultrasonic cleaner. My Creworks cleaner is listed as 180 watts for the ultrasonic transducers. When I measure it with a Kill-a-Watt meter using only the ultrasonic function of the cleaner, it measures between 110 and 135 watts. I would be interested in knowing what your model is rated as and the actual power consumption. You posted a great video and I appreciate the information you provided.
Hi Pho, Glad you liked it. Sorry, I don't have the equipment to measure the consumption. I did another video on the ultrasonic cleaners, here you go:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tVkuPpQkhPIaWOZI
Thanks, Jon
Weight weenies should get one- save a quarter gram from the lost anodised coatings.
the stripping of the anodizing is more due to the chemical cleaner used and not the ultrasonic cleaner. ultrasonics are delicate enough to clean 100 year old shellac records, they aren't stripping anodizing. look to your chemicals for the change in metal finishes.
First bit of advice, put your filthy parts into something like a quart storage bag with the cleaning solution and just run plain water in the tank. Easier clean up and less cleaner wasted.
I like using odorless mineral spirits for cleaning grease things. In the bag it's safe and won't eat your anodizing. Mineral spirits won't leave your parts so stripped of oil that they flash rust.
Light anodisind means manufacturer taking a piss on you. So it's very thin, means it's very fast to rub off from surface, especially jokey wheel, which is in contact with hard steel from the chain. So manufacturer does anodisind just for colour not to increase aluminium surface durability. Honestly, cleaning aluminium in ultrasonic is fine. But, if you're using alkaline solution for washing - you're bad, it eats away anodising.
In pair with ultrasonic for tricky parts just use dishwashing soap that it, it's enough.
There is no need for strong chemicals.
Bearings are fine in ultrasonic cleaner, nothing happens with them
Wow, that was interesting. No ultrasonic cleaner in my future.
They're great, you just need to be careful. This new video is well worth a watch:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
Hi - I am struggling to get the results you get when I clean a cassette. It still comes out dirty - the only thing I can think of is that the ultrasonic cleaner capacity is too small - I think it is only a litre at most and the cassette barely fits in it. Could this be the problem!
I’d say it’s either too small or possibly faulty. I’d start by putting something small in, and see if it cleans it. The problem with smaller machines is that you have to wedge stuff into the cage to make them fit. The problem with that is that the item won’t resonate. If the cassette sprockets separate, it may be worth doing it in sections. I hope you get to the bottom of it.
Thanks,
Jon.
Thanks for your advice. I will try a smaller, single sprocket and see if it cleans better.
you can test the cleaner by running it with a sheet of aluminum foil (and water of course). if the foil develops small pits and holes, you know it is working correctly
As a lapidary I'm pretty careful with the ultrasonic cleaner you don't use it on ceramic, bones, most minerals (ex: never put opal or emeralds in) and some hardened metals.
Common sense goes a long way.
I use a moasis 22 liters with a heater it's a neat and reliable little machine I also have a small 50$ magnasonic from amazon it's also ok but it has no heater.
I use different commercial solutions but the all around one for me is my homemade 10% ammonia in distilled water + a drop of mineral glycerin soap.
Thanks, Laurentius, all interesting points. Cheers 👍
Im cleaning internal shock parts for work and the basket is scratching them.
the viro-sol instructions say not to use on aluminum, zinc or other alkali sensitive surfaces
Hi bumpandsquish. Agreed. The only thing in that list that we should worry about is aluminium. However, the dilute is 100/1, and most ali parts that I recall going in were painted. I'm in the process of producing a new video where I look at different cleaning solutions for ultrasonic cleaning. What one do you use?
Thanks,
Jon
@@ribblevalleycyclist hi jon,
for aluminum i would recommend simple green aircraft formula.
the only aluminum things i clean regularly are my wiebe tobacco pipes. for those i just use a squirt of dish soap.
for pc boards i use branson ec
for rusty tools, nuts/bolts i use toilet bowl cleaner - really, it works.
looking forward for your cleaning solution comparison
Seems advisable to use warm water AND a temperature regulating model of UC - with a mild cleaner that is A) non flammable and B) no harsher than a mild eye irritant. Many biodegradable agents now derive their surfactants from vegetable sources and tend to be much safer in disposal (I'm filtering out any waste solids from cleaned chains, etc. with a coffee filter before putting the water down the drain). Thanks for the thoughts on your UC, but from my reading so far, it seems clear full strength cleaners for use at room temperature or intended for dilution should not be used with the ultrasonic process; the vibrations are their own accelerant or agent.
What is the capacity of the machine you’re using?
Hi, in this video I’m using a 3 litre. But to be honest, it’s not big enough if you’re gonna put a cassette in that’s 30 or larger. If you’re doing just small parts and chains though, it’s perfect.
I’ve got a video in the pipeline where I’ll be using a new large machine.
Thanks,
Jon
I wanted to hear about the effect of heat, is needed and just at the end, he said a cold chain and degreaser did nothing. oy. I was hoping that if you left the machine run longer, that it would get to the same clean result, but might take longer. Now, I know. Thank you.
You're welcome, glad to help.
Water is a dipole, so not physically neutral and chemically it contains both the strongest acid as well as alkaloid, H3O+ and OH-, using water with an other compound is potentially asking for trouble, up to matters like hydrogen brittleness.
I had what appears to be that exact machine and after cleaning 4 chains (using Silca's recommended method) I turned it on to preheat one day without checking the water level and killed the heater :-(
isnt it the chemical that strips the anodization? what about Spirits or Isopropyl alcohol or Terpentine ?
This is what I'm wondering too. Was the degreaser acidic? I wonder how the parts would have fared with a petroleum-based solvent, like white spirit.
Hi Ben, Sorry, I didn't get a notification from your question until Jason commented on it.
Yes, the degreaser is a citrus acidic product, but it's a very weak dilution. Also, parts didn't strip when left in it directly. However, saying that, it could be a combination of the two. I've always wondered how it would perform with petrol.... or diesel would be very interesting on a chain, because diesel is also a lubricant. I'll see if I can get this done in a short video and post it in the next few weeks.
Zep citrus orang
I don't use the ultrasonic cleaner for big bike crass I use petrol or toluene. Nothing like it.
*With a toothbrush of course, not in the ultrasonic cleaner 😂
When your too lazy to clean parts the old fashioned way 😂😂
Bikespeeds uses one with No Nonsense Degreaser and then thoroughly washes the components down. He's never said anything about ruined anodising. He doesn't put jockey wheels or bb's in though.
Hi again Pigeon Poo, I've heard a few people mention No Nonsense, so I've ordered some from Tool Station. I'll be getting my hands on a new machine, and will be trying a few degreasers, and also petrol! Watch this space!
Use simple green
Don't use corrosive cleaners . Change water , run parts in plain water to remove degreaser .
All good tips, Paul. I’ve made a follow up video to this. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
Awesome video, thanks…! Was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner, and this really made things more clear…
Something we used to do in the shop where I worked 30 years ago (!!), was to use compressed air to blast things clean…. you have to do it under a hood if you have one (not likely at home) otherwise stuff goes flying all over the room…. for example a cartridge bearing, soak it in degreaser then blast it with air, it will be clean, dry, and free of solvent, ready to be repacked with grease….
Interesting, you should say that. I've just done another video on this exact subject. You may find my tests interesting:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
@@ribblevalleycyclist thanks...!
That was a no smoking job I guess 😂
I run mine with IPA and have no issues
What, Indian Pale Ale? 😂
@@ribblevalleycyclist any I can get my hands on haha
Wow... that's a great way to blow up a garage.
I hope you put the IPA in a ziploc bag? Something like simple green HD is a better degreaser, cheaper, and kinder to metals because it contains corrosion inhibitors so a chain left in a bit too long won't come out rusty (which happens surprisingly fast once all grease is removed!). IPA is great for the final rinse (NOT in the ultrasonic cleaner!) to remove any trace of degreaser and water.
@@bloopasonic thanks for your concern rest assured I'm still alive and the garage hasn't blown up yet. Seriously though you do have to be careful about time in the solution also ipa is free for me I get it from work.
My biggest concern would be the ultrasonic cleaner itself. I have dismantled one (different name, but identical look to yours) and the Earth bonding was awful, with potential to make the actual case live, it is fairly easy to make it safe. If you Google Ultrasonic cleaner recall, you will see the U.K. government safety notice (again different brand name, but looks the same). There is also a video on TH-cam that shows you the earthing issue.
That is worth knowing about. After all, it’s plugged into the main, filled with water, and gets touched with wet hands! I will be popping mine open, and checking it.
Thanks for sharing.
Jon.
Don;t buy a s#it Chinese one, then. Spend some $ and keep yourself alive.
there 99% all made in china just rebadged @@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589
‘If bike maintenance is your thing’, buy a belt-driven bike with internal gear hub and hydraulic brakes, so you bother it only annually.
Speaking of the ultrasonic cleaner, please don’t exaggerate its ability/power in this tone. We often find brushes+detergent works better than it for glassware chemical residues cleaning.
Just use citric acid or vinegar (diluted) and a drop of detergent.
Thanks for the tips
The thing to avoid is anodised parts. Anything else is fine
I know what I use in my heated ultrasonic cleaner would scare half of you all to death! I use kerosene and it does an absolutely fantastic job. Warning, never leave it unattended and keep the heat around 120F. After a half hour cycle remove metal parts and give them a good shot of brake clean. It works for me, but if you have problems following some simple safety procedures it may not work well for you.
I dont have an ultrasonic but kerosene is my go to cleaner as less volatile than petrol (safer) and less aggressive on skin if you happen to get some on yourself which invariably always happens
Kerosene does an amazing job. Stick it in an old jar, and give it a good shake. Trouble I have is I need to be careful what I recommend to people!!
Thanks,
Jon
@@ribblevalleycyclist Yep pretty much describes my technique 🤣👍
I use water in the machine, and put parts in jars or plastic containers with whatever cleaning solution I want.
Hi,
Interesting you mention that. I’ve made a follow-up video to this, and tried something similar. It’s here:
th-cam.com/video/4ndGpRVC2BU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks,
Jon
@@ribblevalleycyclisti will check it out
I am testing the ultrasonic cleaner to watch some gaming console parts, of course cleaning electronics is not rhe same as cleaning biking stuff..
if you use the wrong cleaning fluid it will strip everything i know iv done it
Yeah, you need to be careful with them.
Instead of an alkali degreaser, maybe a solvent or petroleum spirit would be safer for anodising. I do not know, I do not have an ultrasonic cleaner.
Good suggestion, @ASelman. I am about to do exactly that in a new video with a new ultrasonic cleaner. Hope to have it done in the next week.
How clean does parts that are suppose to be lubed have to be??? I'll keep using wax for lube and not have to worry about oil/grease on may bike or body.. washing my bike with only water, no soap, chemicals, dismantaling, needed, No oil to cause brake problems either..No chemicals to wipe out bearings either.. I'd rather ride my bike then work on it..
Good point, Don. I need to get round to producing a wax video.
Try putting di2 components in there. I bet the electronics wouldn't survive
Ain't gonna argue with that 🤣🤣
@@ribblevalleycyclist 😂😂😂😭