What I remember about Admiral Ross, was that during the Invasion of Cardassia, he was able to seamlessly assume command of the Romulan fleet when they lost their flagship.
I believe he had sisco take his wing to reinforce the romulan centre, while he and martok counter attacked the dominion centre. I believe martok was in command of the combined allied Fleet. ( Ross commented starfleet) largest armada ever assembled. In the books he had a more detailed pre and post war career.
Think the biggest stand out for me about him was when he knew about and worked with Section 31. He was aware that even after the Dominion War things would just go back to the way they were with the other powers in the region. So the placement of Starfleet agents so super important for him. I loved seeing that Starfleet would get down and dirty if it had to.
_Tactics win battles. Logistics win wars._ Ross is indeed quite the underrated character. While other leaders were on the attack, he was the glue that held everything together. I think the strangest thing though was that despite the authority he held, he was only a Vice Admiral. One would expect him to, at least by the late-Dominion War, be a Fleet Admiral.
What allows the federation to deal with massive wars is the deep logistics network of the federation. Something the klingons and romulans do not appreciate.
that happens in war that rank becomes less technical when it comes to the trenches and he was definitely in the trenches. a lot of the fleet admirals probably preferred doing strategy from their Bases or Starfleet command than out on the front line. The Vice Admirals were pretty much the replacement to Fleet Captains. They were the bridge between the field officers and the Homefront. And rank didn't always define your title or responsibility. Just like on the station, Kira was second officer and Work third officer, but on the Defiant...Worf was second officer and Kira third. And he was referred as Commander of the Defiant and would only surrender command if Sisko was on deck.
I think Admiral Ross's involvement in the books is fascinating. Because this is the man who was in bed with Section 31 but also used that power to return Starfleet to a more optimistic and idealistic footing after the war was over.
I really liked Bill Ross, He was smart, reasonable, detail oriented, considerate, respectful and importantly never lost sight of the cost of service and war. Which I think is why it hit me quite hard when he broke and compromised on those Federation values he clearly held dear. When he retorted to Bashir; "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" I very much felt like he didn't believe it himself. I never really got much of an impression that Leyton's coup had a large backing, or that there was much of a purge after it. Then again, Leyton's coup was a series of dumb ideas strung together by hopes and dreams.
Laytons coup always had me wondering how he expected it to go down when Captains showed up with Galaxy or Sovereign class Starships who were not in on the plan? I suppose if successful he would gain control of the system defences but would he actually try to destroy a Federation Capital ship if they refused to collaborate?
Thinking about Sun Tsu, this video says to me that he was a person who knew themselves, and also humble enough to select and listen to officers like Sisko who were divergent in critical aspects of their personalities. That 'knowing himself' gave him a strength that could be perceived by his subordinates and allies. I like how you reflect upon his background as similar to Picard; Starfleet could never absolutely 'know their adversaries' in every situation, but they could know themselves as a base to reason out conflict or compromise.
Lot's of parallels with Eisenhower during WWII. Ross had Sisco, and Eisenhower had Patton. Both were master negotiators, and politicians, both had the respect of their divergent subordinates, and both knew when the let them off the leash.
Loved Ross. Probably cuz I was a big Family Matters fan as a kid, and I remember his character Lt. Murtough, so I just liked Barry Jenner as an actor (RIP). He was probably the most interesting Admiral character along with Necheyev in that there was complexity and ambiguity to them. They were not "Badmirals", but you can tell they had to wrestle with a lot of complex bureaucratic and political issues which that rank would often necessitate having to deal with.
That episode of Family Matters, the one where Lt. Murtough tells Karl that he needed to lose weight was hillarious. That was the first time I remember seeing Barry Jenner as an actor.
@@venomgeekmedia9886There is one short story on Shinzon in Tales of the Dominion War. What happened to him in the movie and how he turned into that nut job was tragic. Shinzon in that story was the kind of leader that you would gladly march into battle with.
Very interesting character! Like how you've described him. Seems sort of interesting that as a major starbase commander he had a major theatre of operations where he was in charge of. He seems like he'd be a Rear Admiral (Maybe Vice, can't tell from the pips) so someone of his age/experience being in charge of that much frontage seems surprising - particularly for someone that hadn't gone through the political game. He seems to have only been jumped up to a flag officer recently before the war began so one would think someone more senior from Starfleet Command would be taking the initiative. He seems fairly conservative for a theatre commander, which is interesting. Also makes sense that he had an outsider's perspective of Starfleet, and had only had minor postings (a Miranda class counts) for most of his career.
Ross sympathized with Section 31 but he was not a puppet. Also if you have read the Section 31 novels and know what Section 31 really was, it was too smart to try and browbeat Ross into being a Section 31 puppet.
Ross was great because he broke type. Hey, here’s an admiral who is not an evil, lying PoS. See also Martok, a Klingon from the Klingon Empire who is actually honorable.
He is a very skilled and talented admiral, particularly as you say when ensuring that Starfleet stay in the fight early on as well as being the peacemaker amongst the allies, specially in respect of some of the stupid stunts certain of his allies pulled at times; here's looking at you senator Cretak and chancellor Gowron. Such a shame, that in star trek cannon, set after the war, now discontinued by picard series, that his relationship with section 31 in along with other admirals removing a corrupt president who is then murdered by section 31, leads to his downfall, when section 31 us exposed.
I always wondered why he was out on that Starbase which seemed in the middle of nowhere, not even in a star system with huge fortifications, and I think you've given a good explanation in that he didn't want to be around a bunch of other members of the admiralty and have them influence him. He felt being an "outsider" gave him a good perspective, and he did so by literally putting himself in some place away from the bustle of Starfleet Command types constantly offering their opinions and advice. In keeping with DS9 themes, Odo literally said once to the Founder "being an outsider isn't so bad. It gives one a unique perspective."
Being on the frontier, he could coordinate a lot of fleet movements. It's the only reason Operation Return happened... Command would have still been dithering as the new Dominion fleet came thru the wormhole.
@@nunya3163he kind of has elements of both. Like Ike, he is a “people person” who kept the,alliance together. Like Nimitz, he was a “quiet professional “ who was not interested in flash or fame.
Agreed. Sort of the polar opposite of a flamboyant general like Douglas MacArthur. Although his paraphrasing of MacArthur's "today the guns are silent" speech at treaty signing at the end of the Dominion war was a great and memorable moment in Star Trek.
Bill quotes from MacArthur alot. But you know who he really reminds me of? Eisenhower. Or, since ships can equal navy, an Admiral James Somervale. It wasn't that he lacked agressiveness, but he wanted to have all the cards in place before he showed his hand in an offensive. And his real skill was not so much fighting as it was administration. Could a bullheaded, hell bent for leather Admiral have resolved the situation on Bajor with the Romulans without bloodshed? Always liked Billy Ross, nice to see him get some love!
I was thinking Eisenhower too. No real combat experience but great at logistics and had to keep Montgomery, the French, the other allies *and* his own generals moving in the same direction. No small feat. Like keeping the Klingons and Romulans out of each other's face
For a bunch of the reasons you’ve mentioned he reminds me of Raymond Spruance. Cautious, calculating, good at mediating conflicts between peers. Martok plays the sometimes overly aggressive Halsey opposite him as they take the war to the Dominion.
I do wonder about Leighton's coup sometimes. It feels like one of those tragedy's which is underdeveloped in DS9. From the Starfleet perspective you can see a lot of fighting officers being forced to resign just a year or 2 before they will really be needed and some of presumably some of the best tacticians. Whilst Leiighton is wrong to attempt to overthrow the government It does raise interesting questions on is starfleet struggling so much to fight in the early years of the war because of the losses of these officers meaning other ships and crews are being forced to adopt to war. I always had the thought that Ross was a compentent officer who worked hard on his job faced with a lot of difficult decisions but often one who made the right ones. Which really is quite refreshing for a Starfleet Admiral. Even when making protests about Sisko's plans its on a logical basis not the TNG all admirals are evil and then is willing to be persuaded. On Section 31 I think Ross is an honourable man its understandable why he did. Its a bit like Sisko, when faced with an opportunity to reduce the loses of his men he felt that he had no choice but to act on it. If that meant preventing the next war by problematic means so be it he will have to learn to live with it(computer erase entire log).
Ohh... this is astute and interesting to paint this guy as blue collar... and its fun to actually think... that people in the sector had the responsibility when war were declared more than the right people.... So yeah sure, he was there, he did not falter, he answered the call... rock on.
Some people are asking who was in command of the combined Allied Fleet. In reality it would be Martok as he holds precedence over any commander because he is a Head of State, so he would nominally considered C-in-C. In practice however, Martok was only actively commanding the Klingon forces while Ross commanded the Federation forces and whichever Romulan Senator it was commanded the Romulan Fleet. When the Cardassians joined them whomever the agreed upon senior Legate was. As demonstrated, the decision to press the offensive to besiege Cardassia Prime was a joint one between the allies, rather than decided by Martok alone. Modern History is actually mostly devoid of situations where Heads of State led a major coalition force into battle. The most recent example would be Napoleon during his era who commanded French and significant allied forces in battle on many occasions. On the Coalition side, no Head of State led combined forces, though Tsar Alexander led, in name, Russian forces to the catastrophic defeat at Austerlitz in 1805, and Swedish Crown Prince and Regent Carl Johan led one of three Coalition Armies during the 1813-1814 Campaigns, with his army consisting of Prussian, Russian, English, North German and Swedish troops. The overall command was given to the Austrian Field Marshal Schwartzenberg, but even that was very nominal. Carl Johan often went his own way, and could get away with it as Crown Prince and serving Regent of his Kingdom, and Blucher, commanding the primary Prussian Field Army also tended to act independently.
While it would be best to end there, and remember Ross a hero, sadly we must remember the man. Ross was one of the Admirals involved with Section 31 and Captain Jean-Luc Picard, in forcing President Min Zife to resign over placing illegal weapons on Tezwa during the Klingon conflict. When Section 31 was exposed to the public, Ross was arrested by FSA, and murdered by a rogue Security Officer during his interview.
Who Was Admiral Willam Ross? He was a genetically altered Romulan triple agent working for the Tal Shiar, Section 31, and Starfleet all at the same time.🤣🤣 At least thats what he sounds like at the end of the episode of DS9"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"🤔🤔
Martok as Head of State of the Klingon Empire would always have precedence over an allied commander. So in name the combined fleet is commanded by him. In practice the Martok commanded the Klingon forces, Ross the Federation and whatever Senator for the Romulans.
I always thought that Ross was too young to be an Admiral since all the Admirals in TNG had grey hair. I know the Federation lost alot of Admirals cause of the neck bug alien infiltration in TNG and the failed coup d'eta in DS9 but it still seems like he got the job simply because there were no other old captains who they could promote.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Totally agree as that is towards the end of the golden age and shows how complacent and set in its way Starfleet has become, believing that they are untouchable, fololowing the treaties of Khitomer and Algeron. Until the borg and the dominion shattered that compliancy and forced starfleet to move forward and innovate in order to meet and defeat these new threats.
Depends on the ships. Ships like the Defiant class, which where rare, should have been concentrated into wolf packs, as originally intended, rather than spread about. Some of the larger ships, you spread out to the fleets, so that each has the capability unique to that class. For instance, the Intrepid for their speed and sensors where great for fleet scouting.
Too me the elite fleet doctrine seems dumb in any battle you will have some losses with a mixed fleet the older ships are more likely to be destroyed and so you can phase them out in a way thought that maybe thats a horrible way to think but war is horrible
Captain Benjamin Sisko (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine): Sisko is known for his strategic thinking, diplomacy, and leadership during times of conflict. An analogous figure from World War II could be General Dwight D. Eisenhower. Eisenhower served as Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces and played a crucial role in planning and executing the D-Day invasion, showcasing both military and diplomatic skills. General Martok (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine): General Martok is a Klingon military leader known for his prowess in battle and his sense of honor. A somewhat comparable figure from World War II might be General George S. Patton. Patton was a charismatic and skilled military commander, known for his aggressive tactics and leadership on the Western Front. Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek: The Next Generation): Picard is known for his calm demeanor, strategic thinking, and commitment to diplomacy. In a World War II context, an analogous figure could be Admiral Chester W. Nimitz. Nimitz was a key commander in the Pacific Theater, known for his careful planning and strategic approach in battles like Midway. His emphasis on intelligence and decision-making aligns with some of Picard's characteristics.
@@philiptai233 what strategic thinking did Sisko ever show in the major battles of the dominion war?. Literally every battle he was leading the federation were losing and got lucky with plot armour. His only battle plan seemed to be just attack and hope for the best.
@@Mayfield2024 No in one of the later novels about Chief O'Brian where he ends up meeting Captain Maxwell again when he finally got released; it was said that when Captain Maxwell asked if he can re-enlist due to the war his request was denied. It would have been interesting to see the Starfleet/Federation version of the Soviet Penal Battalions. But no way, this would have given the Dominion a massive propaganda win, the Cardassians would have been so pissed off that it would have made any future reconciliation even more difficult.
This is an interesting analysis for this moment in time. If one looks at the current Russian military you can see the same focus on logistics and supply. Which leads to a more conservative approach to warfare, an emphasis on a war of attrition. This stands in sharp contrast to sweeping maneuver warfare which assumes that victory is gained through the rapid acquisition of territory (which is sadly the current NATO model).
Yep, Jackson Hinkle pointed this out. Also Brian Baldaric from The New Atlas points this out. Brian gets shadow banned while Jackson Hinkle gets banned outright.
I had always wondered what Ross' relationship was with Section 31. Several episodes its shown he knows of their activity and is reluctant to act against them.
Great vid as always, but I'm not a fan of the man. He worked with Section 31 that saw an innocent Romulan senator get charged with treason, and he failed to support Bajor regarding the Romulan incursion on Bajor's moon until the last possible moment.
When referring to the entirety of a poliy's vessels, the term "navy" is more appropriate...more so than fleet, which you are using for sub units. That is, a navy consists of multiple fleets.
What I remember about Admiral Ross, was that during the Invasion of Cardassia, he was able to seamlessly assume command of the Romulan fleet when they lost their flagship.
I believe he had sisco take his wing to reinforce the romulan centre, while he and martok counter attacked the dominion centre.
I believe martok was in command of the combined allied Fleet. ( Ross commented starfleet) largest armada ever assembled.
In the books he had a more detailed pre and post war career.
I do not hate or like the character but this is a fitting memory.
shows how closely the allies were working together by the end.
Think the biggest stand out for me about him was when he knew about and worked with Section 31. He was aware that even after the Dominion War things would just go back to the way they were with the other powers in the region. So the placement of Starfleet agents so super important for him. I loved seeing that Starfleet would get down and dirty if it had to.
_Tactics win battles. Logistics win wars._
Ross is indeed quite the underrated character. While other leaders were on the attack, he was the glue that held everything together.
I think the strangest thing though was that despite the authority he held, he was only a Vice Admiral.
One would expect him to, at least by the late-Dominion War, be a Fleet Admiral.
What allows the federation to deal with massive wars is the deep logistics network of the federation. Something the klingons and romulans do not appreciate.
I imagine it kept him close to operations, where he shines.
After they need you they get rid of you look at Winton Churchill
that happens in war that rank becomes less technical when it comes to the trenches and he was definitely in the trenches. a lot of the fleet admirals probably preferred doing strategy from their Bases or Starfleet command than out on the front line. The Vice Admirals were pretty much the replacement to Fleet Captains. They were the bridge between the field officers and the Homefront. And rank didn't always define your title or responsibility. Just like on the station, Kira was second officer and Work third officer, but on the Defiant...Worf was second officer and Kira third. And he was referred as Commander of the Defiant and would only surrender command if Sisko was on deck.
"I don't like it. But I've spent the last year and a half of my life ordering young men and young women to die. I like that even less."
Admiral William Ross was the Federation's closest version of the 20th Century's General Dwight Eisenhower.
I think Admiral Ross's involvement in the books is fascinating. Because this is the man who was in bed with Section 31 but also used that power to return Starfleet to a more optimistic and idealistic footing after the war was over.
It’s nice to see a solid, competent, rational individual in the right place at the right time
I really liked Bill Ross, He was smart, reasonable, detail oriented, considerate, respectful and importantly never lost sight of the cost of service and war.
Which I think is why it hit me quite hard when he broke and compromised on those Federation values he clearly held dear.
When he retorted to Bashir; "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" I very much felt like he didn't believe it himself.
I never really got much of an impression that Leyton's coup had a large backing, or that there was much of a purge after it.
Then again, Leyton's coup was a series of dumb ideas strung together by hopes and dreams.
Laytons coup always had me wondering how he expected it to go down when Captains showed up with Galaxy or Sovereign class Starships who were not in on the plan?
I suppose if successful he would gain control of the system defences but would he actually try to destroy a Federation Capital ship if they refused to collaborate?
Thinking about Sun Tsu, this video says to me that he was a person who knew themselves, and also humble enough to select and listen to officers like Sisko who were divergent in critical aspects of their personalities. That 'knowing himself' gave him a strength that could be perceived by his subordinates and allies. I like how you reflect upon his background as similar to Picard; Starfleet could never absolutely 'know their adversaries' in every situation, but they could know themselves as a base to reason out conflict or compromise.
Lot's of parallels with Eisenhower during WWII. Ross had Sisco, and Eisenhower had Patton. Both were master negotiators, and politicians, both had the respect of their divergent subordinates, and both knew when the let them off the leash.
Loved Ross. Probably cuz I was a big Family Matters fan as a kid, and I remember his character Lt. Murtough, so I just liked Barry Jenner as an actor (RIP). He was probably the most interesting Admiral character along with Necheyev in that there was complexity and ambiguity to them. They were not "Badmirals", but you can tell they had to wrestle with a lot of complex bureaucratic and political issues which that rank would often necessitate having to deal with.
From the UK and I can't ever remember seeing him in any other role. He was awesome though, he had command and presence in the role.
That episode of Family Matters, the one where Lt. Murtough tells Karl that he needed to lose weight was hillarious. That was the first time I remember seeing Barry Jenner as an actor.
Amazing how he had many of the same qualities as General Eisenhower.
Hearing this about Admiral Ross, makes me think he was molded after General of the Army Eisenhower.
Ross is a level headed pragmatist with an eye for the big picture.
He might be part Vulcan 🖖
You need to do one on plain and simple Garek!
Why he's just a simple tailor...
@@venomgeekmedia9886 lol, that's how he refers himself usually. That's why he would be great to do a video about!
@@vashstpd he is pretty much the only Cardassian character aside from Damar that is quite the exception to the rule.
Since you’re doing Dominion War biographies, maybe a deep dive on what Shinzon of Remus was doing during the Dominion War.
Good idea.
@@venomgeekmedia9886There is one short story on Shinzon in Tales of the Dominion War. What happened to him in the movie and how he turned into that nut job was tragic. Shinzon in that story was the kind of leader that you would gladly march into battle with.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Indeed as didn't Data mention in Nemesis that Shizon fought in nine engagements during the war all of them successful.
Enjoying my second watch through.
His TNG card gave you an option of ether choosing the Honor skill or Section 31 skill.
😆😆
Epic timing!
Just as I start my re-watch of you Dominion War series, you out this.
Fantastic!
Great video!
Thanks Mike!
😎👍
For the longest time I had assumed that the "Ross class" was named after him for his service to starfleet
Very interesting character! Like how you've described him. Seems sort of interesting that as a major starbase commander he had a major theatre of operations where he was in charge of. He seems like he'd be a Rear Admiral (Maybe Vice, can't tell from the pips) so someone of his age/experience being in charge of that much frontage seems surprising - particularly for someone that hadn't gone through the political game. He seems to have only been jumped up to a flag officer recently before the war began so one would think someone more senior from Starfleet Command would be taking the initiative.
He seems fairly conservative for a theatre commander, which is interesting. Also makes sense that he had an outsider's perspective of Starfleet, and had only had minor postings (a Miranda class counts) for most of his career.
Great work, like others have said he had a bit of General Ike in his personality. I would love to see you do General Mortok.
Tactics win battles, logistics win wars
Would you call Ross a real Section 31 Sympathizer or a man who was caught up with a moment of weakness to ideals or a man who was being controlled?
Ross sympathized with Section 31 but he was not a puppet. Also if you have read the Section 31 novels and know what Section 31 really was, it was too smart to try and browbeat Ross into being a Section 31 puppet.
Ross was great because he broke type. Hey, here’s an admiral who is not an evil, lying PoS. See also Martok, a Klingon from the Klingon Empire who is actually honorable.
One of the best newer ship classes was named after him. Can't be all that bad. 🖖
It's not named after him. It's actually named after Mary Golda Ross, the first Native American women aerospace engineer.
He is a very skilled and talented admiral, particularly as you say when ensuring that Starfleet stay in the fight early on as well as being the peacemaker amongst the allies, specially in respect of some of the stupid stunts certain of his allies pulled at times; here's looking at you senator Cretak and chancellor Gowron.
Such a shame, that in star trek cannon, set after the war, now discontinued by picard series, that his relationship with section 31 in along with other admirals removing a corrupt president who is then murdered by section 31, leads to his downfall, when section 31 us exposed.
I liked it, I didn't think I would but I liked it.
@venomgeekmedia9886 - Great videos! Have you done a comparison of hand phasers/disruptors - Federation, Bajoran, Klingon, etc.? Thank you. 😀
A very fitting first episode of this little mini series
I always wondered why he was out on that Starbase which seemed in the middle of nowhere, not even in a star system with huge fortifications, and I think you've given a good explanation in that he didn't want to be around a bunch of other members of the admiralty and have them influence him. He felt being an "outsider" gave him a good perspective, and he did so by literally putting himself in some place away from the bustle of Starfleet Command types constantly offering their opinions and advice. In keeping with DS9 themes, Odo literally said once to the Founder "being an outsider isn't so bad. It gives one a unique perspective."
Being on the frontier, he could coordinate a lot of fleet movements. It's the only reason Operation Return happened... Command would have still been dithering as the new Dominion fleet came thru the wormhole.
He in my mind, he's like the 'Admiral Chester W. Nimitz' of Star Trek.
I was thinking Dwight D. Eisenhower, supreme allied commander.
Yeah me too.@@nunya3163
@@nunya3163he kind of has elements of both. Like Ike, he is a “people person” who kept the,alliance together. Like Nimitz, he was a “quiet professional “ who was not interested in flash or fame.
@@nunya3163I was thinking the same thing.
Agreed. Sort of the polar opposite of a flamboyant general like Douglas MacArthur. Although his paraphrasing of MacArthur's "today the guns are silent" speech at treaty signing at the end of the Dominion war was a great and memorable moment in Star Trek.
Bill quotes from MacArthur alot. But you know who he really reminds me of? Eisenhower. Or, since ships can equal navy, an Admiral James Somervale. It wasn't that he lacked agressiveness, but he wanted to have all the cards in place before he showed his hand in an offensive. And his real skill was not so much fighting as it was administration. Could a bullheaded, hell bent for leather Admiral have resolved the situation on Bajor with the Romulans without bloodshed?
Always liked Billy Ross, nice to see him get some love!
I was thinking Eisenhower too. No real combat experience but great at logistics and had to keep Montgomery, the French, the other allies *and* his own generals moving in the same direction. No small feat. Like keeping the Klingons and Romulans out of each other's face
For a bunch of the reasons you’ve mentioned he reminds me of Raymond Spruance. Cautious, calculating, good at mediating conflicts between peers. Martok plays the sometimes overly aggressive Halsey opposite him as they take the war to the Dominion.
Clearly he studied the Rules of Acquisition as a young man:
The Rules clearly state: LOGISTICS EQUALS PROFIT IN PEACE AND WAR.
Not a "walk softly and carry a big stick" type but a...i don't know, arms outstretched in peace but with a charged phaser within reach?
He was the only Admiral I like.
Only admiral who wasn't evil.
Do this kind of video on Luther Sloan next
I would recommend General Martok also.
does anyone know the music that starts at 9:00 ?
I do wonder about Leighton's coup sometimes. It feels like one of those tragedy's which is underdeveloped in DS9. From the Starfleet perspective you can see a lot of fighting officers being forced to resign just a year or 2 before they will really be needed and some of presumably some of the best tacticians. Whilst Leiighton is wrong to attempt to overthrow the government It does raise interesting questions on is starfleet struggling so much to fight in the early years of the war because of the losses of these officers meaning other ships and crews are being forced to adopt to war.
I always had the thought that Ross was a compentent officer who worked hard on his job faced with a lot of difficult decisions but often one who made the right ones. Which really is quite refreshing for a Starfleet Admiral. Even when making protests about Sisko's plans its on a logical basis not the TNG all admirals are evil and then is willing to be persuaded. On Section 31 I think Ross is an honourable man its understandable why he did. Its a bit like Sisko, when faced with an opportunity to reduce the loses of his men he felt that he had no choice but to act on it. If that meant preventing the next war by problematic means so be it he will have to learn to live with it(computer erase entire log).
Ohh... this is astute and interesting to paint this guy as blue collar... and its fun to actually think... that people in the sector had the responsibility when war were declared more than the right people.... So yeah sure, he was there, he did not falter, he answered the call... rock on.
Some people are asking who was in command of the combined Allied Fleet. In reality it would be Martok as he holds precedence over any commander because he is a Head of State, so he would nominally considered C-in-C. In practice however, Martok was only actively commanding the Klingon forces while Ross commanded the Federation forces and whichever Romulan Senator it was commanded the Romulan Fleet. When the Cardassians joined them whomever the agreed upon senior Legate was. As demonstrated, the decision to press the offensive to besiege Cardassia Prime was a joint one between the allies, rather than decided by Martok alone. Modern History is actually mostly devoid of situations where Heads of State led a major coalition force into battle. The most recent example would be Napoleon during his era who commanded French and significant allied forces in battle on many occasions. On the Coalition side, no Head of State led combined forces, though Tsar Alexander led, in name, Russian forces to the catastrophic defeat at Austerlitz in 1805, and Swedish Crown Prince and Regent Carl Johan led one of three Coalition Armies during the 1813-1814 Campaigns, with his army consisting of Prussian, Russian, English, North German and Swedish troops. The overall command was given to the Austrian Field Marshal Schwartzenberg, but even that was very nominal. Carl Johan often went his own way, and could get away with it as Crown Prince and serving Regent of his Kingdom, and Blucher, commanding the primary Prussian Field Army also tended to act independently.
While it would be best to end there, and remember Ross a hero, sadly we must remember the man.
Ross was one of the Admirals involved with Section 31 and Captain Jean-Luc Picard, in forcing President Min Zife to resign over placing illegal weapons on Tezwa during the Klingon conflict.
When Section 31 was exposed to the public, Ross was arrested by FSA, and murdered by a rogue Security Officer during his interview.
That was in the novelverse...which has sadly been destroyed in the Star Trek Novel trilogy Coda (thanks to the presence of Star Trek Picard).
@@andrewnlarsen Which I ignore the assimilation into the Abrams-Kurtzman Continuity
@@andrewnlarsen the novelverse to me will always be Canon. Disco, Kelvin-verse and Picard...never heard of it.
Who Was Admiral Willam Ross?
He was a genetically altered Romulan triple agent working for the Tal Shiar, Section 31, and Starfleet all at the same time.🤣🤣
At least thats what he sounds like at the end of the episode of DS9"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"🤔🤔
6:41 I bet the Klingons respected his results
I've always thought that despite a couple flaws and compromises, Ross was a Good Admiral.
He was the Eisenhower of the alliance
Not the thinker, the implementer of full strategy, the negotiator of the vying egos
VGM who was the supreme allied commander of the Dominion war? Martok or Admiral Ross?
Martok as Head of State of the Klingon Empire would always have precedence over an allied commander. So in name the combined fleet is commanded by him. In practice the Martok commanded the Klingon forces, Ross the Federation and whatever Senator for the Romulans.
I always thought that Ross was too young to be an Admiral since all the Admirals in TNG had grey hair. I know the Federation lost alot of Admirals cause of the neck bug alien infiltration in TNG and the failed coup d'eta in DS9 but it still seems like he got the job simply because there were no other old captains who they could promote.
I think the number of old admirals in TNG demonstrates the level of stagnation starfleet had experienced.
Ross is the age admirals ought to be.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Totally agree as that is towards the end of the golden age and shows how complacent and set in its way Starfleet has become, believing that they are untouchable, fololowing the treaties of Khitomer and Algeron. Until the borg and the dominion shattered that compliancy and forced starfleet to move forward and innovate in order to meet and defeat these new threats.
Cheers
Good analysis though you didn't mention his involvement in section 31 and that reveals a Machiavellian streak but put toward the greater good.
In fairness concentrating you are best ships together was probably the best way to go, particularly if you can achieve strategic surprise.
Depends on the ships. Ships like the Defiant class, which where rare, should have been concentrated into wolf packs, as originally intended, rather than spread about. Some of the larger ships, you spread out to the fleets, so that each has the capability unique to that class. For instance, the Intrepid for their speed and sensors where great for fleet scouting.
Warriors fight with battles, Admirals battle with logistics.
Compared to most Admirals in Starfleet, Admiral Ross was awesome 👌
Too me the elite fleet doctrine seems dumb in any battle you will have some losses with a mixed fleet the older ships are more likely to be destroyed and so you can phase them out in a way thought that maybe thats a horrible way to think but war is horrible
So what ww2 equivalents would Sisko, Martok, and Picard would be?
Captain Benjamin Sisko (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine): Sisko is known for his strategic thinking, diplomacy, and leadership during times of conflict. An analogous figure from World War II could be General Dwight D. Eisenhower. Eisenhower served as Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces and played a crucial role in planning and executing the D-Day invasion, showcasing both military and diplomatic skills.
General Martok (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine): General Martok is a Klingon military leader known for his prowess in battle and his sense of honor. A somewhat comparable figure from World War II might be General George S. Patton. Patton was a charismatic and skilled military commander, known for his aggressive tactics and leadership on the Western Front.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek: The Next Generation): Picard is known for his calm demeanor, strategic thinking, and commitment to diplomacy. In a World War II context, an analogous figure could be Admiral Chester W. Nimitz. Nimitz was a key commander in the Pacific Theater, known for his careful planning and strategic approach in battles like Midway. His emphasis on intelligence and decision-making aligns with some of Picard's characteristics.
Personally, I'd say Sisko would be Patton and/or MacArthur, Martok would be Montgomery, and Picard would be Marshall.
He would be "Rom"mol
@@philiptai233 what strategic thinking did Sisko ever show in the major battles of the dominion war?. Literally every battle he was leading the federation were losing and got lucky with plot armour. His only battle plan seemed to be just attack and hope for the best.
Admiral Ross would have made a great ambassador/negotiator.
Admiral Ross is one of the Federation's greatest heroes yet he got the...read the Section 31 novels. Sorry I tried my best to not put out spoilers.
Its canon until its not. 😀
@@voss0749It is still canon, they did not do the Star Wars EU grape-ing of the novels stuff.
There are plenty of star trek novels that have been ignored as Canon is updated
@@voss0749 I think they did a final clarification on how the canon is supposed to work.
@@ChairmanMo the Star Trek Novel trilogy series titled Coda.
He worked in section 31 at one time.
What about a video on what if the Dominion had won the war.
I thought Barry Jenner was an outstanding actor and did a great job.
i wonder during the Dominion war. did Starfleet welcome back admiral laten and conspirators.
Often wondered this: was Leyton demoted, pardoned and reinstated. For that matter, was Captain Maxwell of the Phoenix reinstated.. 😮
@@Mayfield2024 No in one of the later novels about Chief O'Brian where he ends up meeting Captain Maxwell again when he finally got released; it was said that when Captain Maxwell asked if he can re-enlist due to the war his request was denied.
It would have been interesting to see the Starfleet/Federation version of the Soviet Penal Battalions. But no way, this would have given the Dominion a massive propaganda win, the Cardassians would have been so pissed off that it would have made any future reconciliation even more difficult.
This is an interesting analysis for this moment in time. If one looks at the current Russian military you can see the same focus on logistics and supply. Which leads to a more conservative approach to warfare, an emphasis on a war of attrition. This stands in sharp contrast to sweeping maneuver warfare which assumes that victory is gained through the rapid acquisition of territory (which is sadly the current NATO model).
Yep, Jackson Hinkle pointed this out. Also Brian Baldaric from The New Atlas points this out. Brian gets shadow banned while Jackson Hinkle gets banned outright.
Russian logistics are a joke right now
@@FunntacularWalrus How so? This statement seems odd as Russia is currently using logistics to it's advantage and winning in Ukraine.
I had always wondered what Ross' relationship was with Section 31. Several episodes its shown he knows of their activity and is reluctant to act against them.
Why would you? Section 31 was the only bright spot for most of the war
Section 31 basically ended the war.
@@M167A1 the implication being he was a member of section 31.
Professional asteroid miners.
Posts gulag mining pics.
A very interesting character and a decent flag officer unlike the usual shower of Badmirals.
Ross was section 31
And Section 31 won the war.
Working class kid makes good.
This
Great vid as always, but I'm not a fan of the man. He worked with Section 31 that saw an innocent Romulan senator get charged with treason, and he failed to support Bajor regarding the Romulan incursion on Bajor's moon until the last possible moment.
When referring to the entirety of a poliy's vessels, the term "navy" is more appropriate...more so than fleet, which you are using for sub units. That is, a navy consists of multiple fleets.
Why was there a business management in a world without money?
This video was a tad bit unorganized. You repeated yourself several times. Good analysis otherwise.
And years later he gave the name to a ship class that *nobody* likes (:gives stern look:)
some people like it...
Admiral ross, aka: Admiral Spineless.
May as welll made Skiso Admiral for actually getting the job done.
Get rid of the horrible back round music
Honestly thought he was a bit Meh. Neither here or there.
A chad